Newbie 947 (Game over Scum wins!)

[jmurph3]

Vote: Xc0m

for having the shortest name. And hi to everyone else.

[jmurph3]

addition to previous post:

not sure how useful this actually is but out of 9 people playing, we've had 7 votes so far.

the tally is as follows:

Haylen - 2
superdemongob - 2
Jerbs - 1
Xcom - 2

Normally, the Mod will put up an official vote count at different points during the day (mafia day, not 24-hr. real time day). Unofficial vote counts are helpful to yourself so you know where everything stands, but you should really rely on the official vote count by the mod.

In other news, I don't know if I fully follow your reasoning, Michel. Speculating on a player replacing out for any reason is generally not useful. Not only does Haylen claim that he didn't replace out, but to follow your own logic, PatResults could just as easily have replaced out because he didn't want to be a townie.

Looking at what's been happening so far today, superdemongob seems to be jumping around following whatever player seems to be the strongest at this point. Could be newb town, could be newb scum. Neutral read from me thus far. Xc0m votes for the most experienced player, a bit of a strange move, but since it's RVS, not a big deal, but then switches his vote because of another player's vote switch...slightly contradictory to me. The biggest thing I haven't liked about Haylen thus far is not her introductory/explanatory posts (given as this is a newb game, those make sense), but her post following those, the "About Haylen" post. Telling us what is and isn't a scumtell for you is a waste for me, and, personally, a confusing way to start off the game.

Anyway, I think that's it for now.

[jmurph3]

Is it just me, or does it seem like a lot of people have avi's that are white on black?

I have this avatar because of a bet.

I have this avatar because it's awesome

[jmurph3]

the "About Haylen" post. Telling us what is and isn't a scumtell for you is a waste for me, and, personally, a confusing way to start off the game.

I have played with Haylen at least once before when she was town, and she got into heavy trouble for appealing to emotion (among others). I think it's pretty likely her post comes from her being mislynched for those reasons a number of times, though I haven't actually checked.

Whether or not it comes from previous games or not, it would be the perfect ruse for her as scum to throw that out there to start with so that later on in the game, she can point back to that post as concrete evidence. Basically, my problem with it is that it's setting up a potential WIFOM argument later on.

[jmurph3]

I have nothing else to say. I'm careful now with what I post. Because I know that people will simply quote me and pick apart what I have to say. So now I will only post when I deem necessary.

I wouldn't call this lurking, by the way. I'm being very careful now. And I'll know not to speedread. Just think of me as someone hiding behind the scenes.

Just to offer fair warning, it's better to be up front about what you're thinking because that gives you a chance to defend yourself and your views, whereas by "hiding behind the scenes," you will almost always be seen as more scummy than those that post.

[jmurph3]

@Jmurph: I did not say that I would not post from here on in, more that I would only post when I 'deem necessary'. Seeing as how my last POV was taken as escalating a vote to L-2, I have merely decided to keep my thoughts to myself until I am sure that people would agree with me, or that I have enough concrete evidence that no one would have an argument against me.

So of course, I will still be posting, but not as often as before. Technically it is viewed as scummy unless you are upfront about it from the start and explaining your reasons for it. There is still a while to go for the end of D1, so we will see what happens.

Again, no matter if you say up front why you're doing it, it will still be seen as scummy. I'm already seeing this as scummy. No matter what your reasons are, and, personally, I don't think they're particularly good reasons - everyone makes mistakes; you should've seen what they did to me my last game! - what you have set yourself up to be doing is not going to be helpful to the town. And I personally think that if you're setting yourself up to be useless to the town, then there's really no point in keeping you around.

On D1, in the event that there's no concrete scum (which, unless someone makes a huge mistake, I doubt there will be), a lynch to get rid of someone who has self-professed herself to be of no use to us is just as good.

@Haylen: my condolences as well.

[jmurph3]

Hahaha, my confidence? Now I've just scrapped my silence rule.
Tis too fun to gauge people's emotions/reactions. And it helps draw the scum out.

Exactly my point.

Side note, everyone: I will be around very sporadically this week as it's finals for me. So I'm not purposely ignoring y'all, I promise.

[jmurph3]

Well, IMO, it's pretty much self-explanatory, that Mafia has better chances when there is no lynch. Also, I do think, that a person, who votes "No Lynch" on the first day is a newbie scum, trying to disguise himself as a townie. That's all.

Personally, I don't find this as scummy as everyone seems to think it is. To a newbie coming in to his first game, it probably seems strange that people are voting straight away, and it makes sense that this person would argue for a no lynch at that point. When I played my first game of Mafia, I didn't know what RVS was, so it's not entirely surprising to me that he said that, realized his mistake once it was pointed out, and changed his vote. Lesson learned.

I also find it slightly ironic that Xc0m doesn't find bemyally scummy because of being a newb, but finds superdemongob scummy for what I see as being a newb tell.

As we are, IMO, getting out of RVS, I will

unvote

until I'm ready to cast a real vote.

[jmurph3]

Well, I think that voting no lynch during RVS is a newb tell, but i find it a little strange how he quickly unvoted in ten minutes. It just seems like he might have just changed his vote for no reason. His posts were back to back, so nobody could have told him that no lynching was a bad idea. Unless he read the wiki.

EBWOP, thanks for pointing that out, Jerbs. For some reason I thought that someone had mentioned something to him and that was why he changed. Hmmm...I'm still inclined to think it's a newb tell, but that does make it more suspicious for me.

Anyway, I didn't say this earlier, so I'll say it now: Welcome, Wacka Alpaca! I hope to see a content-filled post from you soon.

[jmurph3]

Bump.

Activity checks coming.

Can we get a prod on xSekirei? I don't think he's posted for over a week now.

[jmurph3]

You are truly a horrid player, I hope you can find some kind of happiness in another forum that is "Faster" paced.
Farewell, we hardly knew ye.

Hey now, let's be a little nicer, shall we? Yes, it's not the best that superdemongob is replacing out, but I would much rather he replaced out now, as opposed to an hour before the deadline, you know? Now at least we have a chance to get a replacement in to look things over (and thankfully we're only up to 4 pages, so not too much for someone to go through), and hopefully the game can progress from there.

@superdemongob: I hope you do find a game more suited for your taste. Have you ever tried playing this game IRL? It's significantly faster, and perhaps something you would like to try.

[jmurph3]

I promise a post with actual content to come shortly, but I have to say this first.

There are three girls playing this game. While I personally don't care what you call me, if someone takes offense to something (such as being called "him" when she is a girl), it's common courtesy to not continue purposely to do that. And despite what Wacka claims, name-calling is

not

not part of the game. Though these are only under the guidelines, not rules, it does clearly state,

You should not make any post, or start any thread, with the intention of abusing, ridiculing, insulting, offending, or upsetting any other user on this site.

I'm all for having fun with this game, but to deliberately attack bemyally for something she has already stated as being offensive to her is ridiculous.

[jmurph3]

I promised content, and here it is (sorry it's so late in coming; I've been moving).

The cases, as I see them, are thus: XcOm for lurking, an OMGUS FoS on MichelSableheart, voting on superdemongob for what I see as newb tell (neither explicitly scum or town) and the case on bemyally for...what, exactly? For saying that she doesn't care if she gets lynched?

Michel laid out the only real case against Bemy that I could see (though as he's now voting for XcOm, I don't put a lot of stock in it). He said:

Rereading the first page, Benyally is slightly pinging my scumdar. His suspicions of demongob aren't very well thought out, which, combined with the fact that it was an L-2, gives his post a rather opportunistic feel. His "I think we're going to be great friends" to jmurph also doesn't sit very well with me. And responding to pressure by only posting when it won't draw much suspicion could easily be scum motivated.

While I agree that bemyally should have considered the fact that her vote put suoerdemongob at L-2, I think her case at that time was as well thought out as it could be. Several others remarked on SDG's "No Lynch" vote, thus making me have a bit more of a neutral feel on that. I definitely agree that the posting only when it won't arouse suspicion is scummy, as I mentioned before, but I don't think this is enough to make me vote for her. And I don't like the "friends" comment either. I don't like being seen as too friendly with anyone, as anyone could be scum.

So I don't like the vote on bemy, as it doesn't seem to be that convincing to me. XcOm for lurking is a definite possibility, especially since he came back only to wagon on bemy, but I want to give him a chance to come back with some content before I vote for him.

Actually, I would like to draw our attention to at that I've been feeling a bit uncomfortable with his actions, namely that he has been completely inconsistent: Wacka Alpaca. To me, he appears to be tunneling on SDG while completely discounting others (namely bemy) for the same reasons that he's voting SDG. He says of SDG:

In my experience, whoever says "I can't vote for myself" or actually DOES vote for themselves, is scummy. Also people who say "Lynch me, I dont care" or "Lynch me, and lose your lynch".

Oh... did I just say that saying "Lynch me, I dont care" was a sign of scum?!
I did!

In my experience (Again) anyone who says "Lynch me" for ANY reason, is scum.

However, whether or not it makes her scummy, bemy has stated several times that she either would not mind being lynched or "go ahead lynch me" etc. Nonetheless, WA stated:

Second, Me=World, what the hell kind of analysis is that?
Right now you seem more scummy to me than anyone, because you basically came up with RIDICULOUSLY basic, bland, and uninspired reasons for why Bemy looked scummy in posts.

Anyone who thinks Bemy is scum, is an idiot.

How does that even work? SDG is scummy for those reasons, but bemy is not? Completely inconsistent to me.

In addition, I don't fully understand the irrational anger at SDG for replacing out. WA said:

You are truly a horrid player, I hope you can find some kind of happiness in another forum that is "Faster" paced.
Farewell, we hardly knew ye.

This seems completely over the top to me. Why would he be so angry about SDG replacing out? Well, one possible explanation that I thought of is that SDG and WA are scum, and that be replacing out, SDG is sticking WA with a replacement scum. This seems like a weak argument to me, but I do think that it's a possibility.

Finally, there's the whole "percentages" of scumminess that WA used on SDG. To me, who has a fairly excellent grasp of mathematics, that was completely confusing and irrelevant. Why use numbers at all? It's unnecessary, as he could just as easily have said that SDG was becoming more and more scummy. I feel like this is a way to deliberately confuse or mislead the town.

Thus, I am going to

vote: Wacka Alpaca

.

[jmurph3]

@Everyone: can we please hold off on roleclaiming?

There's a distinct difference between saying "I am town" (alignment) and "I am townie" (thus claiming a role). This kind of information doesn't seem particularly important, but it is, as carelessly throwing out there that you are townie can give the scum a lot more information than we should be giving them, particularly this early in the game.

[jmurph3]

Sorry I haven't been around much, everyone. Things came up in real life.

Given as we have 4 days left before deadline, I think we need to focus in on a lynch. It might be helpful if everyone posted their top two scum possibilities/

people they are willing to lynch

. I say that because at this point, if one did not have a solid scum figured out, it can be beneficial to the town to lynch a lurker, for example, or someone who has generally not been useful to town.

At this point, unofficially speaking, mb53 has the most votes with 3 (I think - if I got this wrong, forgive me). The mb53 case obviously carries over from SDG. Personally, I don't think the case on SDG was ever that great to begin with, and I'm not sure if I agree with this lynch. mb53 has been active, though mostly in defense of himself - which is not altogether surprising, given as most of what has been said has been aimed at him - and I just don't find SDG's no-lynch vote and then unvote/revote to be that scummy, nor do I find his repeated "lynch me"s, etc. Certainly not helpful to town, but to me this does not an effective case make.

Besides, without the unvote by SDG, the entire case rests on the "lynch me"s, as far as I can tell, and as bemyally has said the same thing, this just doesn't convince me that one is scummier than the other. That being said, if it's the will of the town to lynch mb53, I will follow suit, but I just don't think it's convincing enough.

Me=Weird and Xc0m have just unvoted bemyally for reasons that I don't entirely understand, and not voted for anyone new...thus becoming incredibly unhelpful (more so than before, if possible). Neither of them has posted much of anything, and are both up there as lynches I would support strictly because of lurking.

I definitely still think Wacka is scummy, or at the very least not being helpful to town. Despite his tirades against every other person in this game for being more or less useless (I'm paraphrasing), I haven't found too much of what he has to say particularly helpful. In particular, as already mentioned, his percentages are blatantly confusing, and, given the discussion it's stirred, his "list" hasn't been overtly useful either. He seems to be deliberately steering the town, whether it's through degrading comments (and no, I'm not talking about the Penis thing. I'm talking about him saying that the town is being useless and needs to start doing something), or through confusing tactics possibly meant to lead newb town.

So at this point, with 4 days left, and well noting that this is subject to change, the two I would be most willing to lynch are:
1. Wacka Alpaca
2. Me=Weird/Xc0m

[jmurph3]

@M=W: An alliance between me and Wacka? You've got to be kidding. This guy has called me every name under the sun. The only difference is he actually believes that I am not mafia.

Actually, the reasoning behind this is quite sound. After all, there are only two ways to be absolutely assured that someone is town (this is going beyond mere suspicions). 1) Player A [who is convinced Player B is town] is cop and has investigated Player B, thus knowing Player B is town; however, since we have not had a night phase, the cop, if there is one, has not had an opportunity to investigate. This then leaves us with option 2) The player is scum, and thus knows who is scum aligned and town aligned.

I'm not saying that you are or aren't scum; however, what concerns me is how convinced Wacka is that you're town, with no other reason than the fact that you're - in his words, not mine - a terrible player. This is not a weighty argument to me, calling into question how he can be so convinced of your towniness - thus opening option 2 for me (and, assumedly, M=W). Personally, I see Wacka as being more of a scum team with SDG/mb53 because a scum lynch on his weak partner could assure that suspicion is lifted from Wacka, while at the same time ridding him of who he sees as a "horrid player".

Therefore, while Me=Weird posits that you may be a scum team, which is assuredly possible, the more safe option, since you are the one in flux here, is to vote for Wacka, since he is the one, based off of this line of reasoning, that would decidedly be the scum.

Does that make sense?

[jmurph3]

@Everyone: my computer is currently broken. I am typing this on a borrowed computer from a friend. As such, I will not be here for the deadline, for which I greatly apologize.

That being said, I stand with my vote on Wacka. @bemy: if Wacka flips scum, this does not necessarily make you his scum buddy. In fact, it can prove the opposite. As previously noted, he seems convinced you're town. If he's scum, he may very well know that you are, in fact town. He might have been setting that up in the hopes that we would lynch you, so then he would be solid with an alibi of saying from the get-go that he thought you were town.

[jmurph3]

Just wanted to let everyone know that I am now back (my computer was getting fixed) and after I sort through about 500 e-mails, I will be posting.

[jmurph3]

jmurph3 and jerbs have been prodded.

Sorry everyone!! I'm here now.

Since D2 has thus far only been about 2 pages, it was very easy to catch up on. For the same reason, there's also not much to say.

I'm sorry to see that mb53 replaced out. He seemed like he knew what he was doing, which is always nice.

Coming off of D1, and looking at the final vote count, I want to ask Jerbs why he did not unvote Wacka once Wacka claimed.

Also, though it's a tad hypocritical of me given as I myself have not been around, I must agree with mb53 when he said:

First off this:

More tomorrow when I will post a giant message at Wacka to MAKE him answer questions - he'll have to wade through it to find them. ^.^

post tromorrow, need schepp

will comment/amswer questions ect tomorrow afternoon.

You keep on promising to bring content, but you don't.

QFT, especially when added to Haylen's most recent post:

Expect something later today.

It's now the next day, and she's still not posted anything. This is not enough for me to vote yet, but I will say

FoS: Haylen

@Michel: I liked your analysis of the final lynch, but I want to verify your suspicions. You find Jerbs and Tyrope scummy, correct? Why, then, does Tyrope merit your vote, but not Jerbs?

I like what J.R. has been posting thus far, but I agree with Michel: too much defense, not enough suspicions. He mentioned Haylen and xcom/Tyrope, but no one else.

@J.R.: what are your reads on other players?

Anyway, moral of the story is that everyone needs to post more (myself obviously and emphatically included). Until then...I'm not sure if I have much more to say.

Oh, actually, I do... @J.R.: if you could maybe consider only using font color in special occasions or for emphasis...it's making my eyes bleed

[jmurph3]

Tbqh, I do have someone in mind who I suspect to be scum, but there is no way that I would have enough evidence against that person. I'm not going to go throwing names around this time because I might get into a heap of trouble, especially when I don't have satisfactory info. Maybe if I live long enough I might get more evidence.

At this point, we have nothing to go on. No one's saying anything, and while I understand that you don't want to risk it in case you get called out on it, it would be far more beneficial to town for you to just come out and say who you're suspicious of and why. That is what this game is about. It's not just about keeping yourself alive; as a townperson, one wins if town wins, NOT if that person is alive at the end.

[jmurph3]

@everyone else: Can you please place your vote on someone? I would prefer to see some actual discussion, rather then a deadline scramble for a lynch

Unfortunately, for me, my vote comes down, at the moment, to a policy lynch. No one has posted enough today for me to get a scummy vibe, so I have to base it on lurking, whether actively or inactively. Personally, I don't like to do this. I would much rather vote based on a scum vibe because even if wrong, it can give town something to go off of, whereas saying, "we killed this player because of lurking" typically ends up with town no better than where we started.

Therefore, I am most inclined towards voting Jerbs, Tyrope, or Haylen. Though of the three Haylen has posted the most recently, I do not find her posts relevant or really content-filled, thus not being very helpful to town and potentially as harmful as not posting at all. I'm not sure whether to let Tyrope get replaced for being inactive (which I see as likely to happen at this point) is better, or if we should lynch him before that happens...Jerbs has also not posted much of use recently, and has been offline for a long length of time before that.

Of the three, since those seem the only viable choices to me at the moment, I would probably go with Haylen. She claims real life issues are her problem, and replacing into too many games, but I feel like she still could have contributed more, especially with the way D2 has progressed thus far. For these reasons, and well acknowledging that if (and this is a big if) new information is revealed before the deadline, I will most likely change my vote, I will say:

Vote: Haylen

.

[jmurph3]

@jmurph: allthough I can understand where you are coming from regarding day 2 as not giving us any information, I do have to wonder if day 1 influences your decission in any way.

Hmmm, not really, as least not consciously for me. I mean, my number 1 suspect was, obviously misguided on my part, Wacka. I don't think I had any major suspicions on anyone else, though feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that. As with D2, there just wasn't that much information brought out on D1. I was suspicious of Haylen from the get-go just because of the way that she came out and laid out all her scum tells/non-scum tells, but I think that's the only relevant thing that happened in regard to this.

@Michel: do you seem to think that D1 is influencing me?

[jmurph3]

Sorry I wasn't here, chaps. As you might have seen, it was my birthday, and it was my twenty-first, and since I live in America...I was a bit preoccupied.

That being said, the flurry of posts was highly welcome, even if it was just between three players. For me, at least, the reason I don't post more often is because there is nothing more to be said, mainly because I (and others) are waiting on others to post, and while I know that this hurts town, posting useless fluff just to post isn't too helpful either.

Now, looking at what's been posted, IMO, the back-and-forth (I hesitate to call it a fight) between bemyally and TKOE seemed to me to be coming off as town v. town. That being said, bemyally got her back up in regards to some of the things TKOE was saying, and I think that her choice of attacking TKOE the way she did while not defending herself was odd...not outrightly scummy, but slightly strange to me. I'm also not quite sure what to make of TKOE's unvote on Bemy.

@The King of Eggs: Now that you have unvoted bemyally, who do you think is scum, or who would you be willing to vote for?

Anyway, at this point, I would most favor a lynch of Haylen or of Jerbs, both for about the same reason. I get a slightly scummier vibe from Haylen, have from the beginning, than Jerbs, which is why I favor Haylen more than Jerbs. Jerbs is a straight policy lynch, while Haylen I do have a gut scum vibe on. I don't want to vote for Michel and will only do so to guarantee a lynch.

[jmurph3]

Hmmm...I could see a TKE-Jerbs scumpair. However, I am also aware of the fact that we need to be absolutely positive of scum at this point and cannot just lynch on inactivity or we risk a mislynch. I too shall be reexamining the thread to see what I can find.

[jmurph3]

Hold on a moment.

Michel is an IC. Shouldn't he be dead by now? I mean, scum would probably kill off the most experienced players first, and it is already day 3.
I think that Michel may be scum.

@Michel
Any reasoning as to why you may still be alive?

I don't know if I follow this logic. What you're basically saying is, "Scum kills off experienced players first. Michel is an experienced player and still alive. Therefore he must be scum." The problem I have with this is that Haylen, another experienced player, was killed on D2, and you, an SE, are still alive. Therefore, you, as an SE, are just as liable to be scum. For all the talk of you lurking and the fact that you're an experienced player, why are YOU still alive?

[jmurph3]

I'm sorry but I have about 10 minutes. So I'm sorry Michel. No persusasive case. But if you are conviced that jerb is scum then I can only conclude that jmurph must be his scum partner. I have no tells on you Michel or bemyally. ( not anymore anyway). So by the process of elimination. Jmurph is the most likely option.

UNVOTE:

Vote jmurph

So you have no tells on Michel or bemyally? Do you have any tells on me? Because if you have no tells on me as well, then Michel or bemyally is, by your logic, just as likely to be scum.

[jmurph3]

The forum just deleted a post that I have been working on for over an hour

As such, I am summing up what I originally meant to post here, as regarding possible scumpairs (explanations and evidence will follow, I'm just pushed for time at this point).

Scumpair possibilities (in order of my perception of likelihood)

-Jerbs-TKE: likely
-Michel-bemy: semi-likely
-Jerbs-bemy: semi-likely
-TKE-Michel: not out of the realm of possibility
-TKE-bemy: unlikely
-Jerbs-Michel: unlikely

As Jerbs appears in more of the scumpairs that I see as being semi-possible, I'm going to say

vote: Jerbs

.

[jmurph3]

1st vote count of day 3:

Jmurph - 1 (The King of Eggs)

Not voting: (bemyally, jerbs, jmurph, Michelsableheart)

With 5 alive it's 3 to lynch

DL is Saturday July 13th at 12:30pm but will be moved back if posting doesn't pick up.

@Mod: I voted for Jerbs

[jmurph3]

@Jmurph: looking forward to your analysis. In particular, I would like to hear your thoughts on Bemyally, because I really don't see how she can be scum. In particular, the jerbs- Bemyally combination would likely have attempted a quicklynch on you by now.

Honestly, when I was posting what I had posted, I didn't think about that. In fact, it's likely that any scumpair that does not involve TKE would have tried a quick lynch on me by now. At the same time and using the same logic, since I voted for Jerbs, a scumpair that does not involve Jerbs would probably have jumped on that as a quicklynch. As such, I can only conclude that both TKE and Jerbs must be in the scumpair.

TBH, my thinking with putting Bemy in a scumpair is that she seems so blatantly town that it's a perfect cover, especially if she had a more experienced partner, like you or Jerbs. And I'm also using my experience from the last game I played, where the scumpair were the two who never seemed to interact with one another, which is why I bumped the possibility of a Jerbs-bemy scumpair to semi-likely.

Hopefully this all makes sense. I am 100% convinced, based off of the lack of quick-lynch on myself after TKE's vote, and the lack of quick-lynch on Jerbs after my vote, that the scumpair must be Jerbs-TKE.

[jmurph3]

Dang it. Nice job, scum.