Newbie 947 (Game over Scum wins!)

[J.R]

I just started reading during the morning, I was able to read up to page 4 and recently this evening I started reading further up to page 6. I am just reading slowly to make sure that I am able to digest everything that has been said.

It's almost 12 in the midnight here so I need to sleep soon. But to help me catch up more quickly, I'll post my thoughts now on the things I have read so far.

Anyway, I see that there were a lot of suspicions towards my predecessors. Let me start by commenting on the case against demongob:

With regards to the case against demongob, he stated that he plays in another forum which is XKCD... and as a guy who have been used to in playing mafia games in another forum, I can understand why he acted that way. Mafia games in other forums tend to have, like he said before, a "faster pacing" and due to the faster pacing, the players tend to have a different approach in playing the game.

Due to that faster pacing, players don't have the time to examine closely every player and to examine how each player will react in case they were attacked. Having said that, they are NOT used to "picking apart" every posts and every reactions... so the way he played the game have NOT meet the standards of mafia scum players. That's why, as far as I can remember, some say that his posts were contentless or some say they aren't getting enough information about demongob...

I don't play in XKCD... but when demongob stated that XKCD mafia games have faster pacing than the games here, I assumed that the Day phase in the games there only last for days. I play in US Ikariam Boards anyway... and the normal day phase there goes only for around 48-72 hours. If there's a lot of activity, the mod might extend more the duration of the day phase.

Feel free to ask questions. I need to sleep now. I'll continue reading tomorrow.

[J.R]

With regards to the issue of demongob voting no lynch and unvoting afterwards:

Okay, so Demongob voted for no lynch then after a few minutes he unvoted and random voted xcom... He said he voted for someone else because he read a game theory.

Well, it's a newbie tell that someone would go for "no lynch" during Day 1 for the reason that they know nothing about someone. And the reason that he switched his vote to xcom is that due to the game theory he read, he might have realized that no lynch isn't a good thing. I'm thinking that there might be a scum or two on those players who have put a lot of pressure and those who have been pushing for demongob lynch. Players who have a weird playstyle are often being taken advantage by the mafia.

Now, with regards to mb3, hmm.. I'm not sure if he did something scummy cause as far as I can remember, he is only playing ordinarily but a bit faulty.

So far, only haylen and xcom has caught my attention. Haylen, because almost half of Day, she weren't around while everyone is scum hunting. Might be a mafia trying to hide in the background. I'm keeping an eye on her.

Xcom hasn't posted a lot too but I see that he has been replaced. Would like to hear more from his replacement.

On another note, where is everyone? Seems like only a few has been posting here.

[Haylen]

So far, only haylen and xcom has caught my attention. Haylen, because almost half of Day, she weren't around while everyone is scum hunting. Might be a mafia trying to hide in the background. I'm keeping an eye on her.

^_^ Hi! I actually have had the equivilant of what american's call finals over the past few weeks. And if I am completely honest, I replaced into way too many games and am modding more than I can handle. It burned me out quite a bit. But three of the games I was in are over now and I'm only in 3 more now ^.^ Expect something later today.

[MichelSableheart]

Still here, didn't have much to respond to.

Good to see more contentful posts. Too bad J.R. mainly is focussed on defending at the moment. I already had a reasonable town read on mb53, partly due to the way demongob was attacked at the beginning of day 1. To be honest, I'm more interested in what J.R. thinks about other players.

I also would like some replies in general to my analysis in #238 and #180

[Zachrulez]

jmurph3 and jerbs have been prodded.

[jmurph3]

jmurph3 and jerbs have been prodded.

Sorry everyone!! I'm here now.

Since D2 has thus far only been about 2 pages, it was very easy to catch up on. For the same reason, there's also not much to say.

I'm sorry to see that mb53 replaced out. He seemed like he knew what he was doing, which is always nice.

Coming off of D1, and looking at the final vote count, I want to ask Jerbs why he did not unvote Wacka once Wacka claimed.

Also, though it's a tad hypocritical of me given as I myself have not been around, I must agree with mb53 when he said:

First off this:

More tomorrow when I will post a giant message at Wacka to MAKE him answer questions - he'll have to wade through it to find them. ^.^

post tromorrow, need schepp

will comment/amswer questions ect tomorrow afternoon.

You keep on promising to bring content, but you don't.

QFT, especially when added to Haylen's most recent post:

Expect something later today.

It's now the next day, and she's still not posted anything. This is not enough for me to vote yet, but I will say

FoS: Haylen

@Michel: I liked your analysis of the final lynch, but I want to verify your suspicions. You find Jerbs and Tyrope scummy, correct? Why, then, does Tyrope merit your vote, but not Jerbs?

I like what J.R. has been posting thus far, but I agree with Michel: too much defense, not enough suspicions. He mentioned Haylen and xcom/Tyrope, but no one else.

@J.R.: what are your reads on other players?

Anyway, moral of the story is that everyone needs to post more (myself obviously and emphatically included). Until then...I'm not sure if I have much more to say.

Oh, actually, I do... @J.R.: if you could maybe consider only using font color in special occasions or for emphasis...it's making my eyes bleed

[bemyally]

Hi all,

Just posting to say that I'm still here. I have exams this month so I might not be able to contribute much to the game (but I have nothing now, anyway). Don't expect me to stop posting altogether, though.

Personally, I don't find Haylen to be all that scummy. True that most scummy players turn out to be lurkers, but I do believe that she has taken on way to many mafia games and may be in over her head a bit. I'm not saying that she isn't mafia (because she could be) but for me, her saying 'Will post more later' repeatedly isn't a valid scumtell. Personally, if I were to vote for her for that, it would be more out of annoyance of posts with no content.

Where is Jerbs, by the way?

[bemyally]

Michel, I just went through the posts you mentioned again. Frankly, I haven't found anything that stands out to me. For me, it's just a summary of what everyone else has said and how they have reacted to WA's death, hence my no comment before.

Tbqh, I do have someone in mind who I suspect to be scum, but there is no way that I would have enough evidence against that person. I'm not going to go throwing names around this time because I might get into a heap of trouble, especially when I don't have satisfactory info. Maybe if I live long enough I might get more evidence.

[jmurph3]

Tbqh, I do have someone in mind who I suspect to be scum, but there is no way that I would have enough evidence against that person. I'm not going to go throwing names around this time because I might get into a heap of trouble, especially when I don't have satisfactory info. Maybe if I live long enough I might get more evidence.

At this point, we have nothing to go on. No one's saying anything, and while I understand that you don't want to risk it in case you get called out on it, it would be far more beneficial to town for you to just come out and say who you're suspicious of and why. That is what this game is about. It's not just about keeping yourself alive; as a townperson, one wins if town wins, NOT if that person is alive at the end.

[J.R]

Okay, no font color for now. Anyway, to be able to catch up, I focused on defending first especially since there are a lot of accusations on my predecessors which they weren't able to defend themselves properly.

On the other hand, so far, Haylen is on the top of my list due to the reasons I stated earlier but like I've said, and everyone said, it's not enough for a vote against her that's why I didn't voted in my earlier post. In addition to the reasons I stated above against her, there's a

small possibility

that she is overusing real life as an excuse. I just find it odd that despite of her busy schedule in real life, she still has the will to play. If she is mafia, her power to kill and discuss things with her mafia buddy is the reason why she will continue playing. Of course, roles with power are often seen as the exciting role. These kind of tactics were used by those who get a mafia role in the other forum I'm playing at so I just can't help noticing these... but I know I'm on a different world right now so I shouldn't be jumping too much on the tells that doesn't necessarily apply to this server.

With regards to what I think on each player, not sure if I was able to have a proper read on every one since I got focused on defending and reading. It's harder to find a scum if you came in late in the game and you need to read several pages of posts but hopefully, I would be able to tell my thoughts on every one soon as I am re-reading the all the posts.

So far, the ones in my previous posts and the ones here in my posts are my thoughts right now.

[J.R]

So here are my thoughts on each players:

bemyally

- I'm a bit suspicious about her since she said that she is going to be careful to what she would say as others will pick apart it. Even now, she seems to be not voicing all of her thoughts. If she is a mafia, she might be afraid to be accused with what she say that's why she prefer to be more cautious and not reveal every of her thoughts.

Right now, I'm a bit undecided about her. I'm not inclined to believe she is town but I'm not inclined to believe she is mafia either.

jmurph3

- She wasn't helpful during the beginning of the game. I kinda noticed that she seem to be saying what the others have said or she was only posting about rules or principles in mafia game but later in the Day phase, she posted more but at that time her posts has more content.

Right now, I'm inclined to believe that she is town.

Tyrope

- Xcom only had 8 posts which didn't had a lot of content in it. Like I've said before, I can't help having suspicions on players who didn't had a lot of activity. It gives me the impression that they are hiding in the background.

I'm undecided about him. I feel like we didn't really got enough out of xcom.

Jerbs

- I find it odd that when he voted for mb53, my predecessor, it was the only time that he had a contentful posts. Other than that, he just seem to be popping in and popping out during the last Day phase.

I'm undecided about him.

Haylen

- I have already stated my thoughts about her.

MichelSableheart

- So far I'm getting town vibes from him.

FoS: Tyrope and Haylen

[Zachrulez]

1st vote count of day 2:

Haylen - 1 (J.R)
Tyrope - 1 (MichelSableheart)

Not voting: (bemyally, Tyrope, jmurph3, Jerbs, Haylen)

With 7 alive it's 4 to lynch

If I made any mistakes, politely point them out as soon as you see them.

DL is June 15th at 3pm CST

[MichelSableheart]

@Michel: I liked your analysis of the final lynch, but I want to verify your suspicions. You find Jerbs and Tyrope scummy, correct? Why, then, does Tyrope merit your vote, but not Jerbs?

Because I found Xc0m more suspicious then Jerbs. I'm suspicious of Jerbs for lurking mainly, whereas Xc0m has actively been pushing for what looked like easy (mis)lynches.

[Haylen]

there's a small possibility that she is overusing real life as an excuse. I just find it odd that despite of her busy schedule in real life, she still has the will to play.

Mafia is my only reality escape. I need it otherwise I will completely lose the plot. If you really want to know what's been going on in my life the past few weeks, I'll PM you after the game. But I don't want it advertised.

i dont post weekends

[Jerbs]

Yeah...

im still here

i have finals

just give me time to read everything

[Jerbs]

Alright I'm back

@jmurph3

Lets see... I voted for WA after i got home from school. WA claimed cop at 12:42 in the morning. mb53 hammered at 7:48 that morning. I don't think I had a chance to vote someone else.

[bemyally]

bemyally - I'm a bit suspicious about her since she said that she is going to be careful to what she would say as others will pick apart it. Even now, she seems to be not voicing all of her thoughts. If she is a mafia, she might be afraid to be accused with what she say that's why she prefer to be more cautious and not reveal every of her thoughts.

Right now, I'm a bit undecided about her. I'm not inclined to believe she is town but I'm not inclined to believe she is mafia either.

It seems like no matter how I'd like to go about it, I will somehow end up with an FoS. I will definitely agree with JR though that I am being cautious. Since the demongob incident I've been relentlessly attacked for poor play and bad reasons for voting. I don't quite understand what you want from me. Now you and jmurph want me to name this person. I told you before that my reasons are not valid, you guys would simply lynch me for yet more poor play. Well since you want me to just go ahead with it, I will. (Actually, you might just be wanting someone to just stuff up so you have a valid reason for voting that person, therefore moving the game along. If that's what you want, you've got it)

I personally believe that Michel has a chance of being scum. I'm currently playing in another mafia forum and have heard that in most newbie games, the goons would be an experienced player and a newbie.

I've gone through Michel's past posts. It seems like he views the game from third person. He is also quite cautious about how he goes about things. He gives valid reasons for unvotes and voting. As well as giving a general overview of everyone else's play. That's why I was saying it would be fairly hard to catch him out.

In regards to the voting of WA, Michel was first to unvote (correct me if I'm wrong). Personally I see that if you don't unvote fast enough (or don't unvote at all), you would be suspected by many. I also can almost hear him thinking, 'Cool, the cop claimed, so now I can kill another townie while killing the cop at night.. unvote'. <<Killing two birds with one stone would be awesome if you're mafia.

So! Are my reasons valid? Most likely not! It could be pure town behaviour. So, go ahead and vote me for poor play--- after all, you did pressure me to name this person, right?

[MichelSableheart]

@bemyally: it is not poor play to be wary of players who aren't getting much attention. Your suspicions of me are definately not a reason to vote you. The arguments you are making are not strong enough to be suspicious of anyone, though. You are assuming I am scum and reasoning from there, rather then actually looking at my actions to determine if they are more likely to come from town or scum.

Looking at your first point: In the first moderator question in the FAQ, it is strongly adviced that the roledistribution should happen completely randomly. A quick (and not guaranteed accurate) count of games 800-849 shows that there were 54 IC's in those games, 14 of which were mafia. This suggest to me that it is possible that mods sometimes decide to make the IC's scum, rather then distributing randomly, but that doesn't happen nearly to the extend that you can argue "Michel is IC, therefore Michel is scum".

In regard to your second point: as far as I am aware, I always am rather cautious about the decissions I make. It's easier to find the scum if I actually look at what's happening, and try to determine possible motiviations for people's behaviour. Feel free to check my old games (which can be found through my wiki page) to check.

Is there any reason why you are ignoring the town explanation of the third point? It was close to deadline, only the Wacka and M=W wagons looked like they could reach a lynch. A no lynch during day 1 is extremely bad for town, because (assuming mafia kills every night) town will have one less lynch available to lynch the mafia with. Lynching the claimed cop is also usually a bad idea. I didn't really have viable alternatives to unvoting Wacka and voting M=W.

[bemyally]

The arguments you are making are not strong enough to be suspicious of anyone, though. You are assuming I am scum and reasoning from there, rather then actually looking at my actions to determine if they are more likely to come from town or scum.

exactly that. Didn't I say before that my reasons are not valid? I myself would not be swayed by this argument because it has no real evidence. Hello, you guys made me name Michel. What the heck can you expect from me now?

-is really REALLY really frustrated-

Btw, okay I will say that I'm getting annoyed by Haylen's lack of posts.. she just said that she doesn't post on weekends..... Okay that argument is fine if you've been posting regularly before, but we've got nothing from her except a brief 'I think Michel is scum' post.

[MichelSableheart]

Ok, the way I see it, bemyally, Jmurph, J.R. and me are the only ones posting actual content, and even that isn't much. There is a general lack of suspicions. Day 2 has been going on for almost two weeks now, and we have only seen 2 votes, one of which was made by someone who replaced out!

@Tyrope: you replaced in one and a half week ago, and didn't say anything game relevant. What is your opinion on your predecessor? Who is most likely scum? Why?

Mod: prod Tyrope please

.

@Jerbs: Answering Jmurph's question is the only thing you have done so far. Who is scum? Why? Has the end of day 1 or the nightkill of Wacka influenced your opinions in any way?

@Haylen: Could you please expand on your suspicions a bit? Why exactly are you suspicious of me? Still the "other players are following Michel" argument that has no actual bearing on my alignement at all? Why is mb asking you to come back in here scummy? And can you give some examples of where mb gives information instead of analysis?

[Zachrulez]

Tyrope has been prodded.

[Haylen]

Checking in before bed: Michel, you give me a scummy vibe, and you seem to be gathering newbies around you to form an evil army of minions. Jerbs is lurking. Did I do a PBPA?

baaaaah, bed time.

[bemyally]

Just posting to say that I'm still here. I've nothing more to add because nothing's happening.

Btw, I'm not sure if I've told you guys, but finals are almost here for me so I won't be able to post as much as I would like to. I will try and post at least once every 48 hours though. Judging by the pace of this game, I'm kinda thinking that I won't miss much.

[Zachrulez]

This is your official "one week to deadline" notice.

[MichelSableheart]

@Haylen: I really don't understand how you can accuse someone of leading the town around when it's one week to deadline and noone is doing anything. I don't remember seeing you do a PBPA recently.

@J.R.: You are aware that mb voted Haylen, and that your vote is still there because you didn't unvote?

@everyone else: Can you please place your vote on someone? I would prefer to see some actual discussion, rather then a deadline scramble for a lynch (or worse, a No Lynch. Remember Newbie 848, Haylen?)

I won't be able to visit the forum tomorrow.