Mini 927: Alabama Correctional Facility - OVER

[Jahudo]

Do we only get a certain number of shoves?

[Jahudo]

Shove:
farside22 2
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 2

What's this? You're giving them special treatment, eh?

Let's see if its reciprocal:

Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 2
pwnman 6

farside22 11
pwnman 5

Not so much. But farside and SAMP shoving me to the back... I daresay that is quite rude of you!

Shove:
UncertainKitten 2
Minineko 7
Ellibereth 9
Jahudo 1
SpyreX 4
Max 6
farside22 11
HackerHuck 8
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 12
Cobalt 3
pwnman 10
Grimmy 5

[Jahudo]

pwnman looks a little suspicious already.

Oops!

Why did you move SAMP from 2 to 6? Why not move farside, or make them 2, 3? And what's up with declaring your first shove a random one, but then coming back with a second shove with no reasoning? If its not random, then what's the reason?

Is anyone going to comment or will we continue this random shoving for 1st place?

Why? Is there nothing you see that you can comment on?

[Jahudo]

Its only a problem if the game is still slow paced after two weeks. We have a shortened deadline but should be able to bring up somebodies average if they look towny enough but are in the lynch spot. The greater threat is not having enough discussion to agree on a scummy enough player.

Wait what how does this work help i am so confused i dont get it help im drowning

What part confused you?

Random sucks.

What is your basis for shoving, if its not random?

I PMd DGB and the best thing to presume is that you have no role: ergo neither pro nor anti town role. Therefore it is not one of the two main parties it must be a third party.

A third party or no party? Do you have any incentive to do anything? This doesn't look like a mafia type scum gambit, so this randomness doesn't bother me now.

That's right, we're on a deadline. That means we need to get to work right now

Where's your work? Or by work do you mean random shoving?

[Jahudo]

Spy is right about the average system, and I don't understand farside's position unless she just doesn't understand the system. The only benefit I see is she doesn't want to show her cards until the end of the day, which seems pretty scummy.

These shove counts are basically forcing people to give scumreads with every vote, which should help analysis in later days.

There also can't be a lynch before the 2 week deadline, so everyone will have a chance to update their shove count without risk of a quickhammer. At that time there's a chance that scum can bury the same town together, but I would think it has much the same effect as being on a wagon that at least some town also like.

[Jahudo]

Hacker, what's this look like to you?:

Your new shoving order replaces the old one completely.

[Jahudo]

Shove:
UncertainKitten 7
Minineko 9
Ellibereth 8
Jahudo 1
SpyreX 6
Max 2
farside22 4
HackerHuck 10
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 3
Cobalt 11
pwnman 12
Grimmy 5

Reasoning:
UncertainKitten7 - Has given a little bit of reads, but most posts are questions about mechanic.
Minineko 9 - Lurker is anti-town. Lurkers needs to post more.
Ellibereth 8 - Giving scumtells are more pro-town than giving town-tells. Looks a little suspicions.
Jahudo 1 - is me.
SpyreX 6 - Plenty of mechanics talk, some of it necessary to get everyone on same page and off subject, but not much scumhunting.
Max 2 - Already making some reads. Role PM confusion looks genuine, not gambit.
farside22 4 - Already making some reads. But she spends too much time talking about how random shoving is bad for averages, which is a non-issue. Not scummy though.
HackerHuck 10 - Is vocal against random shoves, but most of his shoves on post 96 have no reason. Kinda scummy.
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 3 - Lurker and non-shover pressure looks okay for now. But I expect something both super and awesome.
Cobalt 11 - full of fluff. No content = scummy.
pwnman 12 - No explanation of 2nd shove after he explicitly said his 1st was random. Also for giving 2 people 2's. So not paying attention. Scummy.
Grimmy 5 - "me first" mentality looks anti-town, but not scummy at the moment. Besides, we're all giving ourselves 1's.

[Jahudo]

I'm most likely not going to have a specific reason for why I chose to locate each person in their particular slot.

Even the scum slots? 1-7/8/9 I can understand, but not 10/11/12.

Since I'm on the fence about most everyone else, I was just trying to "normalize" the order by inverting the current ratio.

This doesn't feel right. Who does that invert shoving help? There can't be a lynch until the end of two weeks. If you are truly on the fence about everyone else, why are you using your own power to help a specific group of people?

sigh, haters gonna hate

Why no shove yet?

[Jahudo]

Sir mod sir! can we get a prod on Minineko and pwnman? Sir.

Those two haven't acted townish yet, but they haven't really been here either. Lurker lynches aren't bad options, but I wish we had search to see if they were active lurkers
So there's still time to maybe get them replaced with more active people.

[Jahudo]

Is it just me or did pwnman mostly parrot what I said?

SpyreX 6 - Plenty of mechanics talk, some of it necessary to get everyone on same page and off subject, but not much scumhunting.

SpyreX- Plenty of mechanics talk, some of it necessary to get everyone on same page and off subject, but not much scumhunting.

Minineko 9 - Lurker is anti-town. Lurkers needs to post more.

Minineko- Lurker is anti-town. Lurkers needs to post more.

Pwnman, what's up with the word-for-word repeats of my opinion of Spyrex and Minineko?

Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 3 - Lurker and non-shover pressure looks okay for now. But I expect something both super and awesome.

SAMP- Lurker and non-shover pressure looks okay for now. Is freaking out at Cobalt though so I left him mid-line.

The first sentence is exactly the same for this read too.

UncertainKitten7 - Has given a little bit of reads, but most posts are questions about mechanic.

UncertainKitten- Giving a few reads, but not much scum-hunting although not very scummy

These two look very similar, so why didn't you just copy me word for word here (if you'll admit to copying me)?

While I like people agreeing with me, this looks suspicious. Some kind of buddying or inability to make his own reads is going on here.

[Jahudo]

Pwnman, can you respond to post 152?

[Jahudo]

I didn't copy, but I didn't realize it was that close to someone else's, but it happened a shrt while before I shoved so...

What are you saying? Do you remember reading/seeing my post with all my shove explanations?

I find it hard to believe this was a coincidence. Definitely you could have made the same interpretation of people that I had, even on every player (which it doesn't look like you did anyway), but on at least two we have WORD-FOR-WORD duplicates. And how about this:

Farside22- Helpful to the town, all-around

scum-hunter

SpyreX- Plenty of mechanics talk, some of it necessary to get everyone on same page and off subject, but not much

scumhunting

.
Elizibereth- Not explaining shoves, though making sense and

scum-hunting

UncertainKitten- Giving a few reads, but not much

scum-hunting

although not very scummy

You use the word "scumhunt" 4 times in that post. But only 1 doesn't have the dash in between scum and hunt.
I've always consciously thought of scumhunt / scumhunting as a single word, no dashes. But it seems you consciously think of it as two words.

So any defense for why you didn't put a dash there?

[Jahudo]

I like Hacker's reaction to pwnman's claim. It was before anyone knew for sure pwn would be modkilled, so scum wouldn't have a foreseeable reason to help town caught in the kill slot. He could have helped pwnman through shoving, but he already had him in the 6th position, which correlates to his post of pwnman seeming "OK", but not necessarily obvtown. So it seems more likely a logical town reaction than a scum reaction.

I don’t like Elli’s reaction to pwnman’s claim. He was more focused on condemning pwnman, who we weren't sure would be modkilled, to stay in the kill slot. And he's vague on why he didn't like the claim and pwn's behavior in general. I could see where he’d question the timing of the claim, but he doesn’t say that. He just says scummy, which itself is scummy.

And anyone notice how Elli and Cobalt put each other at 3? I think Elli is the only one defending obvscum Cobalt, and the love is reciprocal. Can you say scumbuddies?

I’m going to withhold shoving until there’s a new count, but Elli and Cobalt should be at the bottom for both independent and dependent reasons. Hacker should be up, as should a more active Minineko. And I’ll invert the rest on my list.

Second there are very few times I give fake claims to the mafia. I usually have a generatic town sample pm so the scum know what the win condition is.

There isn't a sample town role PM in the OP, so that might make a fakeclaim more likely. Also rule 3 warns against this kind of stuff, like flavor text may not correlate with alignment. So I don't think its telling one way or the other with how Elli reacted.

I really want to give the super push to Hacker but it almost seems too easy.

What do you mean by too easy? Too easy to find fault in his read, or the current suspicion on him has been flowing too easily?

[Jahudo]

Most people have SAMP around that 7 position and there really isn't a case on him. Only Minineko and Cobalt seem to think he's scum. Which is odd, because unless Cobalt explains his suspicions it looks like he thinks scum (Minineko) thinks scum (SAMP) is scummy. What does that mean to you Cobalt? Why do you think only you and scum know who's scum?

Another way to look at it is that most everyone thinks Cobalt is scum but he isn't actively trying to make the case someone else like SAMP or Minineko. If you had a case, why wouldn't you share it?

[Jahudo]

Shove:
1. UncertainKitten 6
2. Minineko 2
3. Ellibereth 10
4. Jahudo 7
5. SpyreX 5
6. Max 9
7. farside22 8
8. HackerHuck 1
9. Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 3
10. Cobalt 11
12. Grimmy 4

[Jahudo]

Not another one copying me word-for-word!!!

(j/k)

[Jahudo]

All Minineko has said about Cobalt was "oooh, this one doesn't look great" in response to Cobalt's shove count that, among other things, puts Mini at 10. Without explanation it looks like OMGUS. So how is it not, Mini?

I gotta look at Cobalt again because Mini also looks pretty bad overall. His "reads" in post 219 contain alot of "not sures", so fence-leaning, and "probably town", so not scumhunting, and a few where he disagrees but doesn't say that equals scummy. Forget Cobalt being the biggest active lurker after his latest post, that title is now bestowed upon Minineko.

Mini, how about scumtells that not about the modkill reactions?

[Jahudo]

Yeah, its basically an inversion. Except now I got both eyes and my poking stick on Minineko.

Shove:
1. UncertainKitten 6
2. Minineko 11
3. Ellibereth 10
4. Jahudo 7
5. SpyreX 5
6. Max 9
7. farside22 8
8. HackerHuck 1
9. Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 3
10. Cobalt 2
12. Grimmy 4

[Jahudo]

minineko why do you think Cobalt is scum?

That shove in reaction to pwnman reeked of bandwagonvote. He just shoved with no content at at all.

I agree it was no content, but a bandwagon vote? Not in my eyes. How do you figure that given people were against pwnman lynch at the time, making his the first shove count since claim?

[Jahudo]

Actually it was 223:

I’m going to withhold shoving until there’s a new count, but Elli and Cobalt should be at the bottom for both independent and dependent reasons. Hacker should be up, as should a more active Minineko. And I’ll invert the rest on my list.

I said I would at the next shove count, which lends to SAMP's idea of doing the same. Nothing unusual here.

[Jahudo]

How is it scummy? I see comparisons to regular games where the same stuff happens, and I don't think of those other methods as scummy.

[Jahudo]

Just taking a look at these:

6.2 Cobalt
6.2 Grimmy
6.5 Super Awesome Mega Pimp!
7.1 HackerHuck
7.5 Minineko

And where everybody is placing them.

Cobalt 2
Grimmy 9
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 6
HackerHuck 11
Minineko 7

Cobalt 11
Grimmy 3
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 7
HackerHuck 5
Minineko 10

Cobalt 4
Grimmy 8
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 9
HackerHuck 11
Minineko 1

Cobalt 2
Grimmy 8
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 7
HackerHuck 11
Minineko 9

Cobalt 11
Grimmy 10
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 6
HackerHuck 9
Minineko 12

Cobalt 2
Grimmy 4
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 3
HackerHuck 1
Minineko 11

Cobalt 1
Grimmy 8
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 10
HackerHuck 11
Minineko 9

Cobalt 11
Grimmy 1
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 7
HackerHuck 10
Minineko 9

Cobalt 11
Grimmy 4
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 3
HackerHuck 2
Minineko 1

Cobalt 3
Grimmy 7
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 4
HackerHuck 1
Minineko 5

Cobalt 11
Grimmy 6
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 10
HackerHuck 7
Minineko 1

I mentioned a few dates that seemed a while ago, especially UK's which isn't much of a representation since she replaced out.

[Jahudo]

Cobalt 2
Grimmy 4
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 3
HackerHuck 1
Minineko 11

Both Cobalt and Mini are continuing to disappoint after their one "good" content post. I could go for either lynch right now.

And Lol at Max saying shove manipulations are scummy.

FoS: Max

[Jahudo]

And I believe that minineko will pick up activity tomorrow.

What leads you to believe this? Is he V/LA and I missed it somewhere?

[Jahudo]

Where did this Spyrex suspicion come from all of a sudden? I think he's been in the 1 spot most of the day. He doesn't look his best as I've seen in other games, but he doesn't look bad.

And FYI, Slicey replaced UncertainKitten.

Shove:
1. Slicey 8
2. Minineko 10
3. Ellibereth 6
4. Jahudo 1
5. SpyreX 4
6. Max 9
7. farside22 2
8. HackerHuck 7
9. Super Awesome Mega Pimp! 3
10. Cobalt 11
12. Grimmy 5

Maybe I won't need inversions to get Mini or Cob.

[Jahudo]

Jahudo - post 116 I know many a player who say they have a town read on a player and are town. Why do you think eli is scum for saying his town reads are?
Why is Grimmy anti-town when I see Hacker having an almost me first mentality. In fact I saw very little said from grimmy so why the 5 here?
post 281 I noticed that jahudo ignored colbalts question
post 287 really makes me think jahuod and HH are scum together
There isn't a sample town role PM in the OP
There is?
Post 261 shove list gives me great pause as there is no explaination of why he has people listed this way.

re 116: I didn't say he was scum because of that. Just a little suspicious. Finding scum is much more productive than finding town. I was suspicious of his motives.
re 281: what question?
re 287: inversions happen in regular games too. say town is stuck between two suspects near deadline. You feel one is really scummy, and the other not so much. You decide to read the other one as more town than you might feel confident in, maybe defend him, because you feel more confident in your scum read. This does not mean I am ready to declare HH town.
re 261: I gave my reasoning for that shove in post 223. It was an inversion. I already explained that in post 297. Did you not read that?

[Jahudo]

i am interested in learning why you rank 6 people as more town than yourself, and why you think elli is scum with me but not spyrex

But I did answer the first part, just not directly to him. I was inverting the order. I also already said that Elli was scum for reasons independent of Cobalt. And I don't think I have to explain myself if I have a town read and don't share it.

Slicey: What if UncertainKitten's shoves still count? Don't you want to see if you agree with them or not if that's the case?

I think active lurking is scummy, and scum often active lurk. Therefore I think Mini and or Cobalt could be scum. Either lynch is okay by me. After that I am slightly suspicious of Elli and Max. Nothing new, just stuff I've already said.

@Slicey: Cobalt seems to be trying to save himself by calling all the other viable targets scum (Mini/Hacker/SAMP). I don't think Hacker or SAMP are lurking.[/i]

[Jahudo]

farside, how much of your Hacker case is based on his reaction to pwnman's flip? Because I don't see how that's a tell, and I don't see how you see that's a tell. Both you and Hacker had a similar reaction of believing pwnman's claim flavor, whereas Elli didn't believe the claim.

[Jahudo]

Slicey, are you caught up yet?

I still feel Cobalt and Mini were pretty scummy from day 1, but maybe they'll show something different today. So consider me "voting" them until I'm ready to throw some nutriloaf.

@Grimmy:

I think the scum found a way to keep jahudo out of everyones radar, and a combination of his disappearance and avoidance by kitten makes me suspect him (and slicey by default). Sliceys play since joining hasnt helped the cause, but hasnt really hurt it either. (hasnt moved the needle in either way)

What does this all mean?
Are you calling me scum, or saying scum aren't attacking me?
What is my disapearance and what is the avoidance by UncertainKitten?

I think his post 342 is scummy, and he's my 3rd suspect at the moment.

The reads from that post are vague because he calls them "feels" and "vibes", but doesn't explain them. He doesn't really explain what his top suspects did to get in his 9/10/11 spots.
Grimmy: Where is your reasoning?

He also says the Hacker lynch happened by opportunistic scum, yet he placed HH as his 8 pick. Grimmy: How do you balance those two things?

I'm even more floored at Max being the NK.

Why? Are you trying to read into the NK, or just making a comment?

[Jahudo]

I didn't hear anything from any vent. And I don't have a PR.

What's this about me and UncertainSlicey being scumbuddies? Three people say it's possible, bu no reasoning yet. Are you guys telepathic or what?

[Jahudo]

Opps, I mis-read Elli. He didn't say anything about UK/Slicey.

And ok, farside you didn't try to connect me to Slicey but you think we're both scum and I don't know why you think I'm scum (or why UK's posts are not her town meta?).

Grimmy has tried to connect me to Slicey, and I don't know why.

I think the scum found a way to keep jahudo out of everyones radar, and a combination of his disappearance and avoidance by kitten makes me suspect him (and slicey by default).

Something UK did makes Grimmy suspect me.

Its all about me being suspicious of Grimmy and making sure noone's trying to defend him by helping his attacks. I don't see that though.

[Jahudo]

Jahudo: Can you expand on why you thought me and HH had similar actions/comment upon pwnman's claim?

I thought HH had made that comment about role PMs before pwnman was officially modkilled, which could have helped explain his vague initial post after the pwnman claim. So I was incorrect in saying your reactions were similar.

However, the point I was making was that I thought you and HH looked town based on that timeframe, whereas Elli and to a lesser extent UncertainKitten's reactions look questionable. They both acknowledged his claim and thought about how he could still be scum without mentioning their own PMs. (UK did eventually, but I don't think Elli did?)

[Jahudo]

Also @ Jahudo: Did you ever saying anything about making your ranking like SAMP did to push Colbalt down with the same reasoning.

We both seemed to invert to maximize the possibility of a Cobalt lynch, but I don't see where he felt Hacker or Mini lynches were bad. Just that a Cobalt lynch was the best available. I was starting to see Hacker and Mini as town or less scummy through their own actions.

it was two two two thoughts in one!
the disappearance stuff was for kitten. not you.

Ok, I thought you were talking about me because I saw "he" and knew that kitten is a girl.

I put the people on my push list in the order of how scummish I think they were. There were others who looked more scummy to me, hence their places on the list. While I wasnt completely sure of Hackers lynch, I didnt have a strong enough arguement for anyone else as the time to push for his life.

And those other scummy people supported the Hacker lynch?

-i think you, as scum, were pushed towards the middle to hide you and help you fly under the radar.

Through inversions? Because everyone has a part in where I landed each time.
Also I was in slots 1-4 a good part of the day, so I wouldn't exactly call that the middle.

[Jahudo]

Vote Mini - post content
FoS Slicey - ditto


Looking back at Grimmy's day one, I don't see him as scum. It took him a while to get past survival mode, but when he did it looked like he was trying to find scum.
I think I'll take a look at SAMP if we're all talking about him now. I don't see where this tunneling is coming from.

[Jahudo]

He supported the lynch of "lurkerhuck" which says a lot.

Is that worse than the reason you gave to lynch HH?

Okay, Cobalt has some MAJOR active lurking issues through day one. He made exactly two non-spam/useless posts. (out of 23)

Which two posts? How many useful posts did you make?

Minineko will eventually need to die. She'll lurk or post nothing the entire game. I know from experience.

Max seemed to think Minineko would pick up his/her activity. Do you think he has a bad meta?

Mod: Can we fling nutriloaf at ourselves?

You can, but it's kinda like spitting up in the air...

[Jahudo]

Self-preservation.

[Jahudo]

Jah: How is that different then what SAMP did?

In pushing Minineko? There wasn't any reasoning to why he thought Mini could be scum, so I guess self-preservation could have played into it.

[Jahudo]

I played a game with her albeit a while ago. She lurked the entire game. I, as scum, got her lynched based on that. She was town. I don't think lurkiness definitely makes her town though. Her posts in that game were not really scummy (there were two scum teams, so I was still scumhunting.)

Sushi Mafia? I was in that too actually. Mini's activity level is probably not a good indicator of alignment, though looking back at that game I can get a similar feel to this game.

Just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean I don't see it. Does his play make any more sense as mafia than town? Not at all to me. Someone explain to me how it does?

I believe this defense, since its not trying to confirm pwnman as town through his play after his flip.

So I'm not suspicious of Mini now. My only suspect is Cobalt now, but I probably will need a few more.

Fling Jahudo's NUTRILOAF at Minineko

Pass it back please?

[Jahudo]

I don't see how talking about how Elli got a post restriction is productive today. Maybe it came from scum, maybe not. It doesn't really hurt him though, unless I guess if he's modkilled for not doing it.

@Spyrex, why did you say you did something last night, and then elaborate on it?
It sounds like you have a night action that you aren't sure what it does, but the fact that you're talking about it means you at least know its something you don't feel like you need to keep secret.


After Cobalt, I'm suspicious of Slicey.

-He comes in at deadline and says he won't change his shove count, but he asks people to give their suspicions and reasons before he makes his own. And he doesn't read day 1. This all feels like he's using his replacement status and timing to avoid any connections from the day 1 votes. And asking others for player reads before giving your own is always scummy, IMO.

@Slicey: you said you didn't have a problem with UncertainKitten's shove, but also that you didn't have a good grasp on the game. So what kind of shove would you have had a problem with?

-He seems to have a contradictory read between Cobalt-SAMP and Cobalt-Minineko. One of his reasons for thinking SAMP is town is because bussing obv-scum Cobalt seems unlikely. But Cobalt and Mini both suspect each other.

@Slicey: How are these situations different?

[Jahudo]

Spy, is this something you did at night because the mod told you, you did it?

Jahudo: Do you think slicey is scum with colbalt or will colbalt if lynched give you info towards slicey?

I'm only thinking of independent reasons right now. The info depends on how the lynch went down and where everyone was pushing at the time.

[Jahudo]

What does SAMP have to do with Slicey looking suspicious?

[Jahudo]

-He seems to have a contradictory read between Cobalt-SAMP and Cobalt-Minineko.

One of his reasons for thinking SAMP is town is because bussing obv-scum Cobalt seems unlikely.

But Cobalt and Mini both suspect each other.

@Slicey: How are these situations different?

The bolded part is what Slicey believes, not me. (through replace obv-scum for "likely scum" which is what he said.) I am not thinking about bussing/distancing/budding with people I have reads on.

I wanted to know why Slicey is willing to lynch both Cobalt and Minineko (who suspect each other), but not SAMP and Cobalt (who suspect each other) when one of the reasons for not suspecting SAMP is because he's suspecting Cobalt.

[Jahudo]

There's not much I can read into with UK's posting, except this quote bothers me:

I'll admit I was hoping that was what Elli was implying and probably shouldn't have so quickly pointing out the Role PM quotery, hoping Elli would be caught saying that wasn't the town PM or something. Then again, I also assume that the scum know what the town PM looks like, so I guess that wouldn't be easy to catch a scum in.

It reads like she's aware of her contradicting logic, which is honest, but its still suspicious logic.

Basically she hoped to catch scum not knowing the town flavor WHILE assuming scum have fakeclaims. Maybe she did it to cover all the bases? That could be a town gambit or scum cautiousness. It hard to gauge which, but I feel like she was more focus and confident about scum having fakeclaims.

Because she assumed fakeclaims when pwnman claimed:

pwnman's desperation to confirm himself as town caused a lot of frownies in my eyes, which contributed to my assumption of falseclaims.

And she said she was aware of the town flavor:

I saw Warden's Pet and assumed scum. There's actually a quite hilarious PM I sent to DGB complaining about "being a mafia traitor" when she then confirmed I was town.

But instead of starting with that line of attack, she withheld her suspicion and repeated Elli's post of "Fail":

...

Fail

Lemme find my old shoving order.

So its hard to see if she was testing Elli, or actually didn't know how to respond.

[Jahudo]

So I'll buy the Cobalt town meta thing for now.

Does this mean your not considering a Cobalt lynch?
What do you think about Slicey?

[Jahudo]

There was still 9 days before deadline when I threw to Mini. His biggest period of inactivity so far has been 4 days. It was a safe move, and I chose him because I had just stopped suspecting him. It was like an olive branch, except filled with kibbles and bits.

I'm trying the Xyl approach, meaning my reads aren't based on things that happened before I entered the game. Thus I was trying to get a feel for the game as soon as I can by asking people for their suspicions. And asking for other peoples read before your own is not scummy if you just entered the game. You're basically saying that since I'm trying a different method of scumhunting that's a bit unorthodox, that's scummy.

And yes, I do find that scumhunting strategy to be scummy. It seems to only benefit scum, by giving them an excuse to ignore part of the game. Especially when its deadline and every vote counted, including yours that you didn't claim. Though I will admit it isn't a big deal to ask for other people's player reads when replacing into the game; you'd have learned that through reading anyway.

[Jahudo]

I like his line of questioning though, Jahudo, why did I get your loafthing?

People were talking about giving it to someone you trust. I was demonstrating how I now trust your playstyle of low activity is not an alignment tell. And that was the basis of my case on you. And I was confident you wouldn't disappear for 9 days, because that's more like flaking time than someone in V/LA.

[Jahudo]

@farside: Do you still think SAMP's town read on Hacker is suspicious?
What do you think post 376 means, when SAMP pushed his #2 suspect (Mini) in the #1 town slot? Do you think it was mostly to save himself? Do you think there was some buddying/distancing going on? Do you think this is an example of the inversion strategy being manipulated in a way that mostly or only makes sense as scum?

I agree he didn't mention Mini as scum until Cobalt stopped being viable. And his first mention was that Mini is likely a buddy, but no explanation other than the idea that Hacker was a less likely buddy and they were the two viable lynches.

Though I've also felt that SAMP initially used the inversion strategy for the same reason that I did. Mini's placement was more a product of how other people were pushing him, rather than how I felt about him. But that doesn't mean someone can't suspect people they push to the town slots.

-----------------
@Spyrex: Did you make a case on SAMP somewhere, or are you just agreeing with others on it? Do you think he's scummy from his reaction to pwnman's copying?

I was pre-disposed to thinking the copying reactions were a moot point when pwnman flipped town.

-----------------
@Elli: What are the strongest points of your SAMP case? Is it his Cobalt tunneling? His Hacker town read? Why have you paired him with me again--Is it the inversion strategy?

The way I read the tunneling is that SAMP was using a gambit to exagerrate his suspicion on Cobalt in order to get reactions. And I guess a product of that was ignoring everyone else, like Minineko.
@SAMP: Is that accurate?

-----------------
@Slicey: Would you agree that your Cobalt case is based on things you haven't read? Example: his lurker/easy hunt of Minineko? Haven't you also made a lurker/easy hunt of Minineko? You said he needs to eventually die for having a lurker meta. That's a pretty easy hunt.

Slicey, you also said you think avoiding questions is a good scumtell, right? Did you know that a dead townie (pwnman) in this game avoided questions? Is there something specific about this tell that can separate Cobalt from pwnman?

[Jahudo]

Then why do these two quotes say he's "obvscum" and "definitely scum"

Other than obvscum Cobalt

, my current shove order is strictly the inverse of the current average, so as to minimize the chances that anyone other than Cobalt is lynched.

Just because Cobalt is very definitely scum

and I want him lynched no matter what anyone else does, doesn't mean I no longer have a responsibility to determine everyone else's alignment.

But later on in the game you retroactively say you only had a slight scum read on him?

I didn't have any scum reads on anyone at the time

except a slight one on Cobalt

It seems to me that you were exaggerated your read in the first 2 quotes in order to lynch him, or you are backtracking from your tunneling in quote #3.

[Jahudo]

Forget what I said above. Those two quotes came after the slight read you were referring to.

I thought that was the tunneling people are talking about, but I guess it's somewhere else?

[Jahudo]

I didn't see why he thought Hacker was town.
He had no case on mini and if you look at the line up mini was one step above him so damn straight I looked at it as an attempt to save himself more then mini being scum choice #2

To me it looked like settling for one of the two viable lynches when Cobalt stopped being viable. And I agree that he hadn't previously said Mini was scum, or said much good about Hacker; but that doesn't bother me as much because the reason could have just been a gut move like Spy did today.

@SAMP: How much of your Hacker town read had to do with Hacker's post 119?

[Jahudo]

Not entirely. There was logic to the Hacker read, but the Mini was unexplained. At the time of his final shove there was only a .4 difference between Hacker and Mini, who were the only viable lynches. Next came SAMP himself.

So there's logic to acting on the part of the read you have, but the gut was trusting in a non-scum read enough to contribute to the lynch at all.

[Jahudo]

If that's the case then why did SAMP give himself a 2 on that shove, and Hacker a 1? Was that a bluff of some kind?

Mini and Grimmy, are you around? How are your reads going?

[Jahudo]

Can we still swing a Slicey lynch? I think Cobalt and Mini would both need to be involved.

Mini, have you finished your read? Is Slicey as good a suspect for you as Cobalt?

[Jahudo]

@Grimmy:

DEADLINE: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:50 pm EST

Grimmy, what don't you like about the Cobalt or SAMP cases?

[Jahudo]

I had brought up that Cobalt/Elli team idea day 1 but I wasn't confident in it. There was a loose connection on their shoving records to make it a possibility, but that's nothing until we get one of their alignments. On his own, though, Elli hasn't given me any bad gut feelings and his activity and contributions seem about average.

Cobalt is still looking pretty scummy to me. Early day 1 it took him a while to add content. His day 1 targets were also anyone near himself in the shove list, so it can be argued he went after easy targets after other people had already placed them as suspicious. I was holding out for the possibility of a Cobalt lynch, but without Grimmy its not going to happen.

I'm not opposed to part of the SAMP case (ie: where SAMP didn't give a Mini read), but Slicey, Spyrex and (I'm assuming Cobalt) look like hops on the wagon and farside is the only one actively trying to get a read on SAMP.

Slicey it is, because of reasons I've already mentioned. Speak up if you want a refresher Minineko.

Beseige Jahudo's Nutriloaf to Slicey

[Jahudo]

EBYOP: Elli hasn't given me bad feelings lately. I almost forgot about a day 1 tell where he (and UK) had suspicious initial reactions to pwnman's claim. But this tell might be either something or nothing for both Elli and Slicey, and I'm not putting too much emphasis on it right now.

[Jahudo]

Reposting suggestions for tomorrow's post restriction:

ILN I82= I love Nutriloaf I ate two!
OMG PB4= OMG bladder is empty
ATE IN4= Appeal to Emotion of Inmate #4
IN8 ODM = Overdefensive much, Inmate #8?
DSD IN9= Die Scum Die Inmate #9

To deal with the PR for tomorrow I will be using the numbers on page one to before to players.

1. Slicey UncertainKitten
2. Minineko
3. Ellibereth
4. Jahudo
5. SpyreX
6. farside22
7. Super Awesome Mega Pimp!
8. Cobalt
9. Grimmy

The simple things to use for replacing
U = You
R = Are
SM= Scum
WTH = what the hell
Lots of thing that people use for short hand can be used for tomorrow.
Any claim that help with getting a scum lynch should be like.
GTY= Guilty
RB = role blocked
Doc= Doctor who saved a player

Claim = CLM
CLM NOW = Claim now
CLM followed by claim such as VT, DOC, COP, RBER (roleblocker) etc. = What their role is.
NA = Night Action
N1TINM1 = Night one targeted inmate one (AKA me). This one may need some work.

If we get a letter: RCVNOTE, or if it's multiple, RCV#NTE or RCV#NOT.

Also a note for tomorrow's PR situation we can also refer to this list from wiki on some things.

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... reviations

And how about prefix any message with an "X" to signify its opposite or a negation?

A couple of ideas:

1) Use PE#1, PE#2, PE#3 (Public Enemy #1, etc.) for your #1, #2 and #3 scum suspects.
2) Don't call someone Guilty unless you are specifically claiming cop. If you think they're scum, use something like PE#1, DSD (Die Scum Die) or BG (Bad Guy)
3) In restating your case on someone, quote something of theirs followed by FAV TELL, #2F TELL, #3F TELL, etc (for Favorite Tell, 2nd Favorite Tell, etc.)

[Jahudo]

And Mini and Grimmy never showed up for deadline shoves. It'd be nice to know why, even if its not until tomorrow.
Ex: WAS VLA (i was v/la), IFORGOT (I forgot), WAS LRK (i was lurking ).

[Jahudo]

YES YES

[Jahudo]

CLAM PR

[Jahudo]

FNDR PR

[Jahudo]

UNDRSTD

[Jahudo]

IC MAIL

[Jahudo]

FLV CRK

[Jahudo]

N1T CBT

[Jahudo]

NO MAIL

[Jahudo]

N2T FAR

[Jahudo]

ON WHAT

[Jahudo]

IS FLVR

[Jahudo]

GUI LTY

[Jahudo]

OR ELSE

[Jahudo]

IC MAIL

[Jahudo]

MININKO

[Jahudo]

PLS CLM

[Jahudo]

Y TARGT

[Jahudo]

SAMP N1

[Jahudo]

SLICEY

[Jahudo]

WEN SLI

[Jahudo]

SUS IN7

[Jahudo]

WHY SMP

Suspect: Slicey

[Jahudo]

SLI N2T

[Jahudo]

CAN SEE

Suspect: Cobalt

[Jahudo]

BUT WHY

[Jahudo]

SAMP N1

[Jahudo]

WHO LIE

[Jahudo]

RESPOND

Suspect: Slicey

[Jahudo]

EXPLAIN

[Jahudo]

IS GRIM

[Jahudo]

IN CULT

[Jahudo]

WHY N1T

[Jahudo]

U SEEMD

[Jahudo]

SUSP OF

[Jahudo]

COBA D1

[Jahudo]

NOT SAM

[Jahudo]

UNDRSTD

Suspect: Cobalt
Suspect: Cobalt
Suspect: Slicey

[Jahudo]

UM WHAT

[Jahudo]

COULD B

[Jahudo]

FAKE PR

[Jahudo]

COB OBV

[Jahudo]

SUSPECT

[Jahudo]

AND SLI

[Jahudo]

SCUMMY2

[Jahudo]

SPY YOR

[Jahudo]

VOT NOT

[Jahudo]

ON ANY1

[Jahudo]

I was confused on the voting mechanic today, I didn't know there could be a hammer before 2 weeks. So I held my vote on Cobalt.

I didn't understand that mail mechanism either, all I knew was that I got mail night 1. So I decided to claim a role having to do with the mail. I guess it could have backfired if there was a real "Mail Finder".