Teleportation Mafia Universe ONE (MAFIA A WINS!)

[popsofctown]

I need one Gayle.

/confirm

Zoraster, you shouldn't ever automatically nominate someone. Nominations should always be a judgement. If the town destroys itself well enough, it's possible the mafia doesn't deserve a nom.

[popsofctown]

if people ever removed avatars when i complained, it would happen.

not happening.

[popsofctown]

But i like your avatar.


And I really like Flareonage's.

[popsofctown]

this IS the fun universe!!!!


Tomorrow I will bring bagels.

[popsofctown]

It might lower your defenses .

[popsofctown]

evilsnail needs an avatar.

I have some pictures of Boxxy in different pictures do you want one?

We could fill this thread with maximum Boxxy.

[popsofctown]

Vote: Fishythefish

For hatin' on lovin'

[popsofctown]

So mykonian, do you think we're in a Prisoner's Dilemma with the other universe about teleporting scums across?

And you want to take the "no squeal/no squeal" option?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma

[popsofctown]

That doesn't completely eliminate the problem though, because what if our game or theirs ends while we have a scum they shipped on us but have yet to give back? So we have about a halfway chance of getting screwed by about one scum.

Could you explain again why no teleporting at all is superior to the teleportation freeforall?

[popsofctown]

simulposted.


I caught that pun snail.

[popsofctown]

The strategies have been presented. The dissents have been presented. Can we move on now?

Do you think the strategy discussion is delaying scumhunting? It can be quite the springboard.

Strategy discussion is better than no discussion. What exactly are you advocating here gayle? Because you sure haven't presented an alternate direction for the town.

[popsofctown]

Pops in

purple

red

let's keep purple for zoraster

Do you think the strategy discussion is delaying scumhunting? It can be quite the springboard.

Strategy discussion is better than no discussion. What exactly are you advocating here gayle? Because you sure haven't presented an alternate direction for the town.

I think that continuing discussing strategy is pointless. Seems to me that the teleporters will decide for themselves on what to do.

Without reading the thread? They can see every point that is brought up and make a better decision

You are right in that it is better than discussing nothing, but it feels like the game still hasn't begun because we haven't decided on a strategy. You say that it can be quite the springboard, but I think it will just lead to someone being accused as scum for liking one strategy over another.

Yaaaay! Slippery slope fallacy! FUN! Where's my sled, Hobbes?

I'm sure someone with say that is fine, but I'd rather not go down that route.

Hopefully someone will say it's okay to discuss something and accept the spine-chilling risk that someone, somewhere will form a fallacious argument against a player.

As for an alternative direction, I'd prefer if the strategy discussion hadn't interrupted the rvs.

......this is a joke right? This has to be a joke. As if the strategy discussion created a post restriction that cut off random vote posts anyway.

what are your scumtells when you are scum?

I've never been scum, so I wouldn't know.

[popsofctown]

Without reading the thread? They can see every point that is brought up and make a better decision

Notice the word 'continuing'. My point was that the strategies have already been presented, people have already pointed out the problems with each strategy, now it is up to the teleporters to decide which one they want to use.

......this is a joke right? This has to be a joke. As if the strategy discussion created a post restriction that cut off random vote posts anyway.

Notice the word 'interrupted'. No, it does not restrict people from participating in the RVS, but people aren't going to bother with the RVS when there is a strategy discussion going on.

Slippery slope, fallacy, whatever. I just gave my opinion. I realize that there is no way I'm putting an end to the strategy discussion, and you are right that it will lead somewhere eventually, so I'll just be here hitting F5 until then.

@mod: sorry. I couldn't remember the modcolor, so I tried to think of a color I thought a mod would never use. Mebbe I should have gone pink since zoraster's a duder. Or bothered to ctrl+x and check.


@Gayle: Why the sam hill do you think people would ignore RVS for a strategy discussion? I'll give you a hint, it's not because RVS is useful.

[popsofctown]

For townies it is.

[popsofctown]

Request permission to make a pokemon related joke

[popsofctown]

Day 1 Vote Count

ace5993 ( 0 )
DrippingGoofball ( 0 )
elvis_knits ( 1 ) farside22
evilsnail ( 0 )
farside22 ( 2 ) gayle evilsnail
fishythefish ( 2 ) popsofctown flareonage
flareonage ( 1 ) fishythefish
gayle ( 0 )
infinis ( 0 )
mykonian ( 0 )
ojanen ( 0 )
plum ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 0 )
Raskol ( 0 )
Rhinox ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 9 ) ace5993 DrippingGoofball elvis_knits infinis mykonian ojanen plum Raskol Rhinox
Total Votes ( 15 )

With 15 alive, 8 needed to lynch.
Deadline: 2/8 11am

@Universe 1(assuming someone over there wants to quote this so everyone can see it): Gayle's attempt to extend the rvs is scummy as hell. You should lynch her for it.

Lol. On it.

[popsofctown]

Lovin the mutually assured destruction setup here fishy. How many times will game theory apply in this game? ^_^

unvote, vote:Gayle

[popsofctown]

Proposal for Uni2: Synchronized hammers for maximum fairness. Accept?

[popsofctown]

What is Kairyuu's plan?

Teleporting seems good to me. The teleported player is guaranteed not to be a teleporter and thus is extra delicious for lynching.



Fishy it works fine. When someone is at L-1 in our universe, a final player posts that he's willing to hammer. He then waits for a player in the other universe to to be ready to hammer their lynch, and then they both hammer the next time they can get to a computer.

[popsofctown]

which is why I said I was going to shut up and wait for the strategy discussion to go somewhere.

Declaration of intent to active lurk in response to suspicion! Such traditional emo ousted scum play! If you deliver on that promise Gayle, you might even curry some votes from across the universe.

(no, if anyone is confused, she can't actually get voted from them)

[popsofctown]

To the minute simulposting can be achieved.

Step 1: If player who wants to hammer doesn't have a buttload of time, one of the people on the wagon unvotes and he votes.
Step 2: Now the hammerers from each universe decide a time they can both get on.
Step 3: They browse GD a bit for about five minutes to make sure the server isn't in a laggy mood
Step 4: They decide on a minute and look at forum time until that minute begins. (forum time is available somewhere on mafiascum). Once that minute begins they paste their vote in and click submit.

Simaltaneous hammering is important. Otherwise I think we get a situation analagous to a 2 player centipede game. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centipede_game The only

rational

choice is to lynch immediately.
ALL THOSE RANDOM WIKIPEDIA ARTICLES I READ ON GAME THEORY THAT NIGHT MATTER. Screw that homecoming dance, only losers went anyway.

[popsofctown]

Strategy discussion is necessary because what strategy we follow later, if any, will determine how likely it is that we'll reach our win conditions. For that reason, it's kinda important, you know?

Yeah but scum is influencing all that strategy talk

You know this how?

and they're gonna push for the town to do what they want

Wow.. so the scum talk about strategy, the townies are 100% silent about it, and we will all roll over and accept the strategy developed by these scum without analyzing it? WOW, we're stupid! Oh my gosh, how did I dress myself?

Or maybe you just needed to appeal to fear so you could opt out of strategy discussion with a kicker off chance of halting the pro-town strategy development entirely. (yes, i'm pointing an inky finger there)

I think the teleporter should just keep to themselves and do whatever they want with their action

Because if they get any input they'll filter feed on scum developed strategy?
You know, sometimes how true something is really does correlate with how convincing it is. Like my ability to talk, my ability to dance, my ability to fly. And whether creating confirmed townies is protown or not.

[popsofctown]

Zoraster, can I get a /color tag on the end of my last post?

done

[popsofctown]

Thanks

Kairyuu, can't believe you actually asked the mod to give town more firepower because you didn't like it as it is >_<. That breaks like 9 rules of modding lol.

[popsofctown]

Guys, I came up with this idea, totally on my own, and take all credit for it. Don't check timestamps, no, timestamps are evil things and they tell you lies, LIES. I'll put it in quote tags so it's all tidylike.

@all (Both towns, so someone please quote): If we decide to go with fishy's plan, 5th Day will probably be the most important Day to have the confirmed townie, so I propose a P:T:T sequence for both towns. It means we essentially waste our first pull on the first Night so as to not narrow it down by much, but in all likelyhood D5 will be endgame or close to it, so a pull at that point may mean the difference between winning and losing (also, waiting any longer to use the first pull and we might not even get to USE our second).

[popsofctown]

/vote for it

[popsofctown]

I want synchronized nights on Teleport nights. There's no reason to stagger those one, and it dodges the centipede game.

[popsofctown]

Sorry, my obvious active lurking strategy beat you two.

Hay, Gayle, want to discuss the teleporting stuff? I hear it has to do with your supposed win condition.

Should teleporter claim now, Gayle?

[popsofctown]

@fish: it doesn't affect scumhunting at all, it just creates a few days of dead air as one town deliberates longer than the other.

On second thought, it seems as though each town wants to finish second on teleport days. Then you get the incoming scumbag sooner, and can lynch it.

So those days the centipede game will be getting just within the deadline. Which is dangerous because then the server lags and we no lynch. (far worse than the laggy server desynchronizing the simaltaneous lynches.)

[popsofctown]

Yeah, my head was wrinkling about how it was supposed to work with us both on ptt too.




Guys I have an alternate idea to this, see if it sound like it has any merit:

-We lynch rapidly here. The dominant strategy for the teleporter becomes claiming. They claim, and we pull them.
We lynch rapidly again, then push our scummy crap on the other universe.
We lynch rapidly again, then push our scummy crap on the other universe.
We wait for them to do at least one night, so a new teleporter is selected
We lynch rapidly, then we steal their teleporter. Their teleporter wants out at that point because we've filled his universe up with crap. He won't even bother messing with our universe because he knows he can end up here.
Then we lynch rapidly again, then push our scummy crap on the other universe.
And do it again.


Loads of double lynches, the same conf-towns we'd get by cooperating with the other universe. We mess up their universe, which is mean, but we are playing to win. Raskol won't like this plan, I'm sure, but we're more likely to stay in this universe than move to the other one.

[popsofctown]

assuming you haven't teleported/lynched correctly.

That's flawed reasoning. If we are lynching incorrectly, we'll lose anyway. That's like saying a town that gets 3 lynches is disadvantaged.


The other universe might race us, sure, but if we lynch right now we can steal their teleporter, then just try to stay about one day ahead of them the whole game. If they lynch, we lynch too to stay ahead. Since their lynches just makes us speed up, they'll give up and actually thing, stuck with their disadvantage.

I don't think it hurts the universe-pair on the whole. I think it's a zero sum thing, we make it a exactly one smidgen easier for us to win, and exactly one smidgen harder for them to win. Since we are more likely to remain in this universe, this plan is good.

[popsofctown]

I disagree Nicodemus. We'll have shipped one extra scummy player off, and by making our universe a superior universe to live in, we can influence our teleporter to stay and yours to leave.

Arms races are a good thing if you can successfully conquer the other country, and I think this town could converge on a D1 lynch more easily than yours.

[popsofctown]

BOXXY!!!

I have a friend in this thread.




Ganking the other town doesn't work without 100% support, so consider my idea (which was the other idea someone already had, i just didn't understand it when he said it >_<) totally withdrawn.

We'll do the alternate one, it looks fine.

Scumhunting starts now.


Cept i have class byees.

[popsofctown]

And the eventual strategy we got came after both you and flareon called for discussion to cease.

Do you see how you might look bad right now?

[popsofctown]

Calm down, mykonian. The strategy discussion has been sufficiently difficult that he could have trouble following.

[popsofctown]

You're not even making sense anymore. You conceded we needed that time to make a better strategy.

And you're saying the teleporter will do what he wants to do. I herd a roomur that the teleporter's wincon is "you win when all the scum are eliminated from your town". We have public displayed a strategy that maximizes the odds of reaching that condition. We're assuming the teleporter is of competent intelligence.

It has become very, very easy to influence "whatever the teleporter wants to do" and predict it.

Why do you keep characterizing the teleporter's play as some erratic, unalterable wild behavior? The role is not being played by an otter.

[popsofctown]

The mod hasn't changed the rules since the game started.

[popsofctown]

Exactly. Let's make jokes and arbitrary votes. Scumhunting will do itself.

unvote, vote: Flareonage

For complaining about the level of scumhunting whilst not scumhunting, a sin number 43.

[popsofctown]

I'm complaining about you:

[complaining about not scumhunting while not scumhunting.]

I have not commited the action of:

[complaining about not scumhunting while not scumhunting.]

So I'm not a hypocrite. But you are.

[popsofctown]

@other universe:

He has very few posts, are you claiming universe masons bud?

I'm getting more content out of him.

[popsofctown]

rhetorical question was rhetorical.

[popsofctown]

Gosh, you too? When will you guys quit pointing out probtowns in front of them while i'm trying to to poke and make sure??


GEEEEZ.

You can go scumhunt if you're just gonna ruin mine DGB.

[popsofctown]

EK lurks when she's scum.

[popsofctown]

I think you're hairsplitting the semantics. She thinks the question is dumb, and no one would answer it. But since someone did, she thinks that person is scummy. It's like saying "Who wants a massclaim" at the beginning of a newbie is a dumb question, because it is, but if someon was idiotic enough to answer the question you'd have caught scum.

[popsofctown]

I'm not defending DGB on all points. I really don't know what to think of her erratic play atm, it's bizarre.

I just didn't like your saying that she can't think the question is stupid and still find scum with it. She can. But yes, I know that you are arguing the question isn't dumb

@farside: I wasn't defending DGB in general, I was just opposing that one point where mykonian suggested she was contradicting herself. "she hasn't noticed that 3 people answered the question"+"scum skim threads" is legit formula scumhunting, agreed.

Write now I'm concerned DGB is going for "insanity plea scumhunting" by voting evilsnail on flimsy logic and encouraging e_k to skip the thread and vote with her, then shouting she already knows who the 5cumZ are when she ought to be defending herself.

unvote, vote DGB

[popsofctown]

"I've always found her very hard to read"? since January 23rd?

You are such an alt.

[popsofctown]

Ojanen, would you expect an analysis of DGB's play to be anything but bizarre?

[popsofctown]

DGB, is Raskol or e_k scummier?

[popsofctown]

I think I'm leading towards the elvis side of the spectrum atm. Raskol seems genuinely cranky in a townie way. Elvis just isn't all that impressive.

[popsofctown]

The more I think about this, the more ridiculous it seems to me that anyone can think that answering this question hurts the town and the more I'm starting to become suspicious of the motives of those who have treated it as a serious tell.

It is kind of ridiculous to consider answering the question a scumtell.

[popsofctown]

Fuck you I read the entire thread.

Now, please, let's be civil. Please don't directly curse out other players. Everyone deserves respect.

[popsofctown]

Gayle, all I can tell you is that it is sound strategy to rely on other players' reads. I know Kairyuu is a very smart player, and regardless of his alignment he's motivated to scumhunt well in this uni. So yeah, other people's opinions pushed you just over the vote threshold. I've since decided you're Actually That Stubborn and am not really interested in voting you anymore.

I didn't have to vote DGB to prove I wasn't defending her. I did have to vote her in an attempt to get her to calm down and defend herself or act sane. It didn't really work, she's still really enigmatic. Overall, I still think her play is scummy.

Alright, since someone has me longposting anyway....

My gut says Raskol is town, I wonder if he comes off that way in every game he plays though. A lot of the points made against him, to my head though, are logical. E_k participation and involvement still feels a little low this game. Yeah, that's not a powerful case E_k, but I'm not voting on it either.

I don't see myko scum at all. At the very worst, he's a misguided townie who isn't hunting scum effectively. But he's scumhunting like crazy and engaging lots of people in dialogue, so even if he's wrong on things, I think he's town.

[popsofctown]

I think holding back some info on who you have pegged as obvtown is still a concept ahead of its time.

[popsofctown]

I would rather have the scum forced to agree with our town reads and concentrate attacks on themselves and people who look like scum.

Hypathetical game.

6 townies, ABCDEF.
3 scums, xyz.

ABCDEF and xyz have some discussion during the day. During this process, Townies A, B, C, D, and E become 90% certain that F is town. They gain some other information, but not anything nearly that significant.

xyz are going to randomly select a townie to attack together. (yes, sometimes scum attack townies together, sometimes apart, it's not relevant to the example which method they go for).

Pro-readlist people would have each player post their opinions. Scum would realize F is a fortress impenetrable, and they select one of the other five players, and shoot F that night. (and don't say they would have known to shoot F that night anyway. If they would have known that anyway, why can't we grant the same assumption of intelligence to townies who haven't seen readlists yet and let them say they don't need the readlist to know who they agree is townie?)

Anti-readlist people would have these reads withheld. xyz might attack F. The lynch still fails. It's not like these readlists put a magic protective halo of holiness around players that look townie, they don't.

Then after the lynch fails, xyz scumteam look scummy.

[popsofctown]

ABCD are all picking up on some reliable town read that xyz for some reason have no awareness of? This tell, so elusive for scum, is somehow still so reliable that ABCD will not ever doubt it and change their minds.

ABCD are all picking up on some reliable town read that is so obvious they have to make lists to tell eachother about it?

In the cases that EVERYONE knows what would be in a readlist, then whether or not one is provided gives no advantage to any player at all.

Thus it is best to examine the cases when what is in the readlist isn't common knowledge.


The how easy it is to read another player has been exaggerated for illustrative purposes.

[popsofctown]

This is why no one will understand why they shouldn't post readlists until 3010.

[popsofctown]

- I agree with EK about publishing townreads. pops says we want to help the other universe with their pulling – no, we really, really don’t. That seems like an unlikely thought for town – it clearly hurts us if they pull well.

What? Quote it. I do not recall saying that.

[popsofctown]

Esspecially the plans to use the vig as a sort of vig (sending the scum to the other universe), is bound to fail since they would do the same.

LOL OMG VIGSLIP!!!!11111111111111



Everyone in this thread is being hilariously hypocritical. If it was such a horrible mistake that town couldn't make, then why did

everyone in the thread except plum

read over it and not notice?

Because, we'd do it too, regardless of alignment.
It's srsly nbd, and in context I don't think I count it for much.

For the scums in the thread, though, it makes a great <insert reason> for <insert vote> on <insert townie>.

[popsofctown]

More than two 1's on the end of an exclamation mark stream should always be read as a /sarcasm tag.

[popsofctown]

I think CSL might require a policy lynch. He posts very briefly for the entirety of any games he plays.

Not familiar with ABR's play. I wouldn't call someone "lurkerscum" unless they lurk and additionally have shown a scumtell. Where's the scumtell on Albert?

[popsofctown]

- I agree with EK about publishing townreads. pops says we want to help the other universe with their pulling – no, we really, really don’t. That seems like an unlikely thought for town – it clearly hurts us if they pull well.

What? Quote it. I do not recall saying that.

Er... can't find it. I'll try and work out what I meant later.

That is, try to hold me off with a promise to "figure out" what went through your head as you made a post like a day ago so you can wait and see if I get distracted and forget you uber-misrepped me?

unvote, vote: FishytheFish

[popsofctown]

unvote

[popsofctown]

Lol.


Can anyone without a vested interset verify that ABR's activity comes in delayed-release capsules?

[popsofctown]

Like farside. Every game I have played with her lately she thinks I am scum, except spyrex's game. In spyrex's game she defended me and thought I was town. That's the only game I was scum in. This type of thing is important for people to know.

The second time I read that (in farside's post), that left a really bad taste in my mouth. The "This type of thing is important for people to know" feels really manipulative.

Anyway, this is Tier 1 ad hominem, and the last time I saw ad hom was scum, it's in my black book.

vote: e_k

. Though I'm up for a CSL policy lynch when anyone else is. (or is policy teleporting better[?])

[popsofctown]

The thing I said about farside is totally true. And if you think I was implying that farside shouldn't be listened to, atleast in regards to me, you're right. She has no idea how to read me.

Well then I guess you should listen to me then, since I do.

[popsofctown]

SOME information is worthless you absolute-slingin' fool! The fourth digit of the 5-dollar bill I just saw in my wallet is 9. How shall you use that?

E_k is scum because she is waffling in almost every post she makes, defending herself against DGB with unrepentant ad hom, and had low energy at the beginning of the game before she got pressure for it, which is generally e_k scum. (she hates playing scum, it stresses her out).

And something about that quote screamed out from my gut that it dripped evil.

This type of thing is important for people to know

It's SO authoritative and dismissive. The authoritative tone reminds me of lying people who have run out of reason and logic to back their point, so they then use an authoritative tone that suggests they can't disagree. It's bizarrely worded. It sounds like it came out of a legal paper or essay. It's not addressed at anyone. It should be addressed at farside, but elvis_knits is trying to ad hom her attacker into functional silence instead of tackle arguments made against her. So , it should at least be addressed to us, the voting town, but it isn't, it's in a slimy third person.

I'm talking to myself at this point maybe, but oh well.

[popsofctown]

I am not waffling in every post.

You're right. I can't deal in absolutes.

I am not ad homming anyone. When I say farside can't read me, that is not an ad hom attack.

A has made argument X. There is something undesirable about A. X is false (or less true to any degree).

That's the ad hominem fallacy and you're filling it out. You drew attention away from the actual merit of farside's arguments to point out her inability to read you. Her ability to read you is totally independent of the arguments she made, hence it's a logical fallacy. For example, if Glork came in and echoed every single post farside made, it wouldn't cause some of her arguments that were false earlier to become true.
Last time I saw ad hom, it was scum making the ad hom. Last time I tried to explain it, he reacted in a similar reaction to the best of my recollection. So it's in my little black book. I also believe scum make more fallacious arguments, knowingly or otherwise.

I had low energy at the beginning? I was absent from the entire site because my computer had a virus. Did you check my activity elsewhere??

I said energy, not volume. "someone read the thread so I don't have to" vs. "finally that virus is gone now I can play mafia" is what we're looking at her. (for those who don't read the thread, elvis posted like the first paraphrase)

And the quote that supposedly dripped evil to you... how come you didn't notice it the first time? If it was so blatantly scummy, how come you had to see farside jump on it before you decided to use it against me.

I didn't have to see farside jump on it, it gave me a chill after I read the quote but before I read the commentary.

The reason I probably glossed over it the first time is because all the common logical fallacies, gambler's, ad hom, circular logic, etc, have nicknames because they have a high rate of being accepted as valid by people. Glossing over that is why the reinforcement didn't stick out either I suppose.

Let me just say this: IF YOU THINK I AM AD-HOMMING PEOPLE, PLEASE CONTACT THE MOD AND GET ME REPLACED. THAT WOULD BE AN INFRACTION OF SITE RULES. IF YOU'RE SERIOUS ABOUT THIS, CONTACT THE MOD.

Argumentum ad hominem is not against site rules. Flaming is, but I'm clearly not accusing you of that. Are you trying to strawman me into being some sort of bully or something? Gayle probably had a better shot at that than you do.

I CONSIDER IT INSULTING WHEN PEOPLE INCORRECTLY ACCUSE ME OF ADHOM. IF I SAY YOUR IDEA IS STUPID, I AM NOT ADHOMMING YOU, I AM DISAGREEING WITH YOUR IDEA.

I consider it insulting when people address me with caps lock.

I don't see why you should take personal insult at being incorrectly accused of a logical fallacy in a game of mafia (although of course I contest that it is incorrect). Do you get this angry if you are accused of lying, too? I mean, what other in-game tactics are you going to take personal offense to to try to put them on taboo?


And yes, if you say someone's idea is stupid, that would be disagreeing with their idea. You responded to an idea by directing attention to its speaker, which is argumentum ad hominem or a very close relative.

[popsofctown]

POPS, YOU ARE SLEEPING ON THE COUCH TONIGHT.

(IN ALL CAPS)

[popsofctown]

mykonian, I don't know why I bother explaining this to scum, I guess it's more for the rest of the players. farside may not make any sense at all and have her facts all topsy-turvy. In evaluating her alignment you have to learn to look beyond the actual words and arguments she's making.

She's town, so drop it. My farside-meta is solid.

If there is one thing I'm good for, it's to read zwet's alignment.

I can tell you here that he's town in this game.

This has been echoing all game. Which is part of why I'd like to see DGB hang from a tree.

[popsofctown]

Nah, Albert, I still prefer elvis lynch. Though 501 was getting to a ridiculous level of imitation of that post.

[popsofctown]

I agree, I just feel strongly about Elvis and don't have two votes.

[popsofctown]

Nah, Albert, I still prefer elvis lynch. Though 501 was getting to a ridiculous level of imitation of that post.

elvis is still town.

..... ok, your overtly committing the very thing ABR and I are onto you for. Elvis, at the least, is trying. I give votes to players that seem to want them.

vote:DGB

[popsofctown]

(507 ninjaed me, btw)

[popsofctown]

..... ok, your overtly committing the very thing ABR and I are onto you for.

I'm not going to change the way I play the scum role in response to my own meta, and that's how I snare myself.

[popsofctown]

^^parody quote, for clarity.

[popsofctown]

Can everybody who is not high off their ass come and vote ABR?

TIA.

Quit trying to direct away from your scumpartner.

[popsofctown]

ebwop direct attention

[popsofctown]

about what?

[popsofctown]

Plum's avvie is intriguing.

[popsofctown]

Day 1 Vote Count

CSL ( 1 ) Rhinox
DrippingGoofball ( 5 ) mykonian Albert B. Rampage popsofctown farside22 fishythefish
elvis_knits ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 0 )
farside22 ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 0 )
flareonage ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
Albert B. Rampage ( 2 ) Raskol elvis_knits
mykonian ( 3 ) flareonage plum DrippingGoofball
ojanen ( 0 )
plum ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 1 ) gayle
Raskol ( 2 ) evilsnail ojanen
Rhinox ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 1 ) CSL
Total Votes ( 15 )

With 15 alive, 8 needed to lynch.
Deadline: 2/8 11am

Posting to attempt to slay ghost.

[popsofctown]

Plum's avvie is intriguing.

Hello Mr. Active Lurker!

Please comment on your curious relationship with DGB. Farside made a good comment about you defending DGB and then switching to voting her when people called you on it.

Then when I said anything about wanting ABR dead, you said that I should stop trying to direct attention away from my scum buddy, DGB. It was a little bit the pot calling the kettle black, wouldn't you say, hm? I'm not convinced DGB is scum, but if she is, you are definitely her buddy. This odd interaction between the two of you, makes me more suspicious of DGB than I was before. You went from defending her, to cutting her loose and trying to connect her to me.

1. Oh PLEASE. I'm more than allowed to make offtopic posts when I'm nearly leading the thread in content. You can't possibly think I need avatar comments to keep from getting prodded ITT.

I'm not even going to say anymore about that. "ohmigosh you wallposted today then made a post about an avvie active lurker doesn't scumhunt" is ridonkulous. With a k. Because it's like riding a donkey instead of a horse. Ridonkulous.

2. At the point in time I made that post shooting down the "bad questions don't bear good fruit" tell, I hadn't made up my mind on DGB. I did notice an argument from mykonian that was flawed though, so I shot it down. I don't just let flawed arguments get used against any player. Doesn't matter who the target is.

Then mykonian said "why are you defending her"? Which I thought meant "why do you think we shouldn't lynch her", which was never a belief I held, so i explained so.

And then by about the time of that post I had made up my mind on DGB anyway, so I voted her.

3. The difference between the pops-dgb pairing and the e_k-dgb pairing is that you don't want to lynch dgb.

How is it the pot calling the kettle black? Blacks don't want to lynch dgb scum, and want to direct attention from dgb. You've been trying to smokescreen her out of attention for quite some time now, commenting on the rather innocuous ABR and finding increasingly petty "tells" on me. You rarely play this aggressively. I have to wonder.

[popsofctown]

Why the change farside? None of those arguments are new, at all. Just Gayle has posted support for popswagon and made it look like it has legs.

"Following others" is pretty hypocritical for a me too post with a single sentence of your own analysis.

"not offering much in convo" is just wrong. I've posted plenty of content in this game.

[popsofctown]

:goodposting:

[popsofctown]

Lol, you're right. Maybe you are only aggressive as town.


I didn't post anything about the pairing crap because I didn't want to dignify it with a response.

[popsofctown]

You have no content

What the crap? I have been making tons of game related posts the whole game

I subjectively declare that it isn't content. Physician, defend thyself

........

[popsofctown]

Talks about policy lynching over scumhunting

Tagging a sentence on the end of my post that says that policy lynching CSL is also an option is prioritizing it over scumhunting?

Gets defensive when farside mentions defending of DGB

Oh the BELOVED "you're too defensive" scumtell. I attack you. You defend yourself. You're too defensive.

Only built 2 cases on her own that didn't follow anyone.

that's gotta be a joke. What's the quota? One independent case for each player? If someone mentions something before me I can't agree?

Most of the EK/DGB and ABR votes have no substance at all.

When did I vote ABR?
Saying my votes on EK and DGB lack substance is saying you don't like my case. Is there a reason I can't be misguided, if I'm wrong?

Saying EK is using Ad hom.

She was using ad hom. You can't vote people who use terms you don't like.

[popsofctown]

Elvis should post

[popsofctown]

Day 1 Vote Count

CSL ( 2 ) Rhinox ojanen
DrippingGoofball ( 4 ) mykonian Albert B. Rampage popsofctown fishythefish
elvis_knits ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 0 )
farside22 ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 0 )
flareonage ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
Albert B. Rampage ( 2 ) Raskol elvis_knits
mykonian ( 3 ) flareonage plum DrippingGoofball
ojanen ( 0 )
plum ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 2 ) gayle farside22
Raskol ( 1 ) evilsnail
Rhinox ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 1 ) CSL
Total Votes ( 15 )

With 15 alive, 8 needed to lynch.
Deadline: 2/8 11am

:Courtesy ghostslay:

[popsofctown]

Why would you even suggest this?

I think CSL might require a policy lynch. He posts very briefly for the entirety of any games he plays.

Policy lynching is a Good Thing. Has no one explained what policy lynching is? You remove unreadables from the game because they will NEVER be readable. (plus what little we have of CSL looks bad right now).

I reject the "real reads first" school of thought. You want policy lynching done as early as possible. The information on active players' alignments is constantly increasing as the game goes on. One-liners are at a static even chances the whole game. It's better to lynch them first if you do at all, then lynch the active players later with even more information.


Farside, I quit making cases because I quit needing cases. If I had no idea where the scum was, I would be rereading the thread and coming up with new material. But I noticed e_k and DGB (swinging back to middle on e_k, btw) acting scummy and found a place to settle my vote. The tell I switched my vote from e_k to DGB on was a meta-tell I noticed myself (+ DGB's reaction, which was a defiant repetition of the behavior).

Oh, but I'm sure that doesn't count either. For some subjective reason of yours, it won't be real scumhunting either. No matter what evidence from the thread I pull to show that I don't fit your third grade textbook tells, you dismiss it because they aren't spades, they are pointy frying pans and you have to stick with me until that ~2 page interval where you wagon hop again.

[popsofctown]

CSL is very readable (farside can attest)...DGB is the one we should be lynching.

I do indeed prefer DGB lynch.

I personally have played with CSL and found him to be unreadable.

[popsofctown]

But lynching CSL on Day 1, when we have plenty of leads (and I include myself here) is patently absurd and I cannot fathom why anyone would advocate it

at this time

. On account of this, my read on pops now moves down from "purgatory" to "scum."

I suggested policy lynching CSL as an option BEFORE your last readlist, which had me in purgatory. How many times are you going to confess to not reading the thread?
It's pretty clear to me that's not the reason anyway. You had me as town until I started attacking you, so you decided to pull a slow-mo OMGUS by posting a readlist with me in "purgatory" with a planned later list with me in "scum" and then a planned vote if i looked lynchable.

The tell I switched my vote from e_k to DGB on was a meta-tell I noticed myself (+ DGB's reaction, which was a defiant repetition of the behavior).

Explain in detail, DIE SCUM if you fail.

mykonian, I don't know why I bother explaining this to scum, I guess it's more for the rest of the players. farside may not make any sense at all and have her facts all topsy-turvy. In evaluating her alignment you have to learn to look beyond the actual words and arguments she's making.

She's town, so drop it. My farside-meta is solid.

If there is one thing I'm good for, it's to read zwet's alignment.

I can tell you here that he's town in this game.

This has been echoing all game. Which is part of why I'd like to see DGB hang from a tree.

Nah, Albert, I still prefer elvis lynch. Though 501 was getting to a ridiculous level of imitation of that post.

elvis is still town.

..... ok, your overtly committing the very thing ABR and I are onto you for. Elvis, at the least, is trying. I give votes to players that seem to want them.

vote:DGB

Read the thread.

[popsofctown]

Mykonian doesn't remember playing with me, DGB doesn't remember playing with me, how many people will forget playing with me?

I am a sad, invisible panda.

[popsofctown]

HOOPLA DO YOU REMEMBER PLAYING WITH ME?????

(++ WELCOME TO THE GAME!!!)

[popsofctown]

Farside I have as leaning scum by now. I really can't understand what her motivations are when posting, and the things she says are too often copies of what is said earlier in the game. The argument with me what the difference was between fishy and her answer seemed to be asking to say she was town after all. I don't think town would remember one of the first arguments made against her. If this was the case, she would normally have answered it did bother her. She didn't.

does any player believe this is an accurate example of my play and comments in the game thus far?

As much as I disagree with you on almost every point, no XD. You scumhunt a lot.

[popsofctown]

pops - 'Nuff said

Lol.

[popsofctown]

CSL is town.

I asked for 5 townies and he only gave me 3.

Q.E.D.

.........

.........
I need some air.

[popsofctown]

Day 1 Vote Count

CSL ( 3 ) Rhinox ojanen gayle
DrippingGoofball ( 4 ) mykonian Albert B. Rampage popsofctown fishythefish
elvis_knits ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 2 ) CSL Raskol
farside22 ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 0 )
flareonage ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
Albert B. Rampage ( 1 ) elvis_knits
mykonian ( 3 ) flareonage plum DrippingGoofball
ojanen ( 0 )
plum ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 1 ) farside22
Raskol ( 1 ) evilsnail
Rhinox ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 0 )
Total Votes ( 15 )

With 15 alive, 8 needed to lynch.
Deadline: 2/8 11am

Ghostslay

[popsofctown]

Lol...

That's hoopla for you...

[popsofctown]

does that mean you think I'm cool?

[popsofctown]

T_T

[popsofctown]

@pops what is your view about the following players: EK, DGB, ABR, myko and Rhinox:


EK: I was really mad at her for ad homming. Ad homming and then getting whiny about it is very scummy to me. But what EK said about my statement earlier has made me rethink her. That is, I said "e_k is never this aggressive which makes me think she's scum" and then e_k said "lol I was scum in all the games you played with me remember?". It's true, scum e_k smells more like honey and she's been playing pretty vinegar. The ad hom still stands against her though, so she's mid.

DGB: She plays magician when she's scum. She likes to claim to have strong scumreads or townreads on player when she actually has little to no information. So she's meta scum.

The fact she doesn't read the thread much or carefully is scummy, several people have pointed that out.
So that's where my vote is.

ABR: ABR is willing to hit a lot of the same targets as me, which is convenient for now. But if none of these targets flip scum, his level of contribution is a problem like people have said. He does contribute a liiittle just not a lot. Giving him time might tell me more. If he kept up this level of contribution 2 more days and none of his targets flipped scum, I'd be helping his attackers lynch him.

myko: I don't lynch people for sucking at strategy, which seems to be a chunk of the case against them. I don't think [competent] scum get to their wincon by advocating bad strategies, because they are unlikely to get adopted. He scumhunts a lot, though, so townier than scum. He does lose points for the slip, which adds some doubtshadows. But not many.

Rhinox: Rhinox seems like earnest scumhunting every post he makes. (of course I remember you). One of the highest probtowns for me. He comes in here regularly and makes accurate and original observations.

[popsofctown]

@pops:

ABR is scum if none of

your

targets flip scum?

Why are you italicizing a word that word that wasn't in my post? this is a blatant misrep, what the milk truck.

[popsofctown]

No time for a full reread, I have a party to go to. But it looks like DGB claimed a counterclaimable role.

unvote, vote CSL

If there's no cc. From my skim, there isn't one.

[popsofctown]

Why are you italicizing a word that word that wasn't in my post? this is a blatant misrep, what the milk truck

Wasn't a quote.

ABR is willing to hit a lot of the same targets as me, which is convenient for now. But if none of these targets flip scum, his level of contribution is a problem like people have said

You are saying that if ABR's targets, which are mostly the same as yours, flip town then he is suspect. What about you?

Also, I like how your vote immediately went to the easiest lynch.

So you're asking if I will be more suspicious of myself if the people I want to lynch flip town?

ok....

No, I won't be more suspicious of myself if the people I want to lynch flip town.


And seriously attacking me for targetting an easy lynch? This is deadline time, Gayle. If I don't vote for one of the most popular wagons, it will be a no lynch, which is worse than anything.

[popsofctown]

Mod

, be sure to chastise DGB for 881. It's only fair.

[popsofctown]

Oh dear. I should vote count by hand more often. I rechecked because I just now noticed 892, and thought farside was being practical. (she wasn't as far as i can tell mykonian has few votes.)


ABR is closer to L-0, and we need to make a lynch here.

unvote, vote ABR

@Gayle: yes, any player who has been lynching townies is more likely to be scum, no matter how they do it. Vi kpwnt me in Phate's large because of my bad voting record alone, hardly any nuances of play at all.

The reason I'm particularly attentive to whether ABR's targets flip scum is because I'm assuming I'm a good scumhunter (...lol...) and therefore I think he's townie for targetting scum atm.

But since DGB has functionally "flipped", he's already got one red mark since I made that post. And calling for mason not to cc was obviously dumb.

So this deadline lynch doesn't sting at all, he's almost on a level with CSL. (who has been way scummier than policy lynch line for quite some time, Gayle).

[popsofctown]

lolwut i hit ur p4rtner orly?

[popsofctown]

Day 1 Vote Count

CSL ( 1 ) ojanen
DrippingGoofball ( 2 ) Albert B. Rampage plum
elvis_knits ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 1 ) Raskol
farside22 ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 0 )
Hoopla ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
Albert B. Rampage ( 6 ) gayle DrippingGoofball elvis_knits farside22 popsofctown CSL
mykonian ( 0 )
ojanen ( 0 )
plum ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 1 ) Hoopla
Raskol ( 2 ) evilsnail mykonian
Rhinox ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 2 ) fishythefish Rhinox
Total Votes ( 15 )

With 15 alive, 8 needed to lynch.
Deadline: 2/8 11am

/ghostslay

[popsofctown]

I should have posted that same thing.

And expected to get the same reaction CSL will get.

Except lolnoIwouldnt

[popsofctown]

How so? I'm interested in your interest. [/avatar conversation]

The girl in the picture looks very mysterious.

Also I have a crush on Plum but shhhhh.

[popsofctown]

Unvote, ReVote ABR

[popsofctown]

He softclaimed teleporter and didn't get NKed.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT MIGHT BE??? HMMMMMMMM?????11eleven

lol.

Do I want more scum to "crowd into this universe"? Talk about a loaded question. Here and now, I am arguing for having

one

player from the other universe over here. If he is scum, he is scum with no friends or kill, who has a good chance of being totally outed in the endgame. Yeah, I'd risk having a toothless SK over here for a comparable chance of reducing the scumteam by one.

The language you are using makes it sound as if this is a one way deal - we get their scum, and are screwed, while they laugh at us. This is emphatically not the case.

Okay lets try this again. 1) I'm aware no one has a clue what eli's allignment is but clearly looking at the OU he wasn't sent here for his winning personality.
This leads me to (2) the OU decided to go with the orginal lets screw over the U1 with scummy people approach. So I suspect tomorrow we will get another player they (the teleporter) deemed scummy and sent our way. So no I don't want players here that OU deemed scummy in our universe.

Fishy: ":logic: And btw, farside, remember that mafia is a game of logic, and you should avoid emotive arguments"

Farside: ":totally emotion based thought:"

[popsofctown]

Plus that I just have something against helping the other universe, when they clearly don't care about the game (not getting DGB).

I really hope you don't think that one idiotic decision by a single player here means that we should intentionally be trying to screw each other over. Both towns are going to lose if we turn on each other, I can almost guarantee that.

I'm just as pissed as you about it since we're probably the ones who were hurt more by it, but I think we should just move past it for now and hope that the Teleporters can wisen up in future days.

I really hate playing the diplomat, but encouraging rage across the universe is anti-town at best.

By anti-town do mean anti-U2 town? That's the only one the teleporter cares about, if that.

[popsofctown]

The reason for jumping back onto DGB is that DGB didn’t stop declaring reads with no support after pops attacked her for it. This is crap – it doesn’t become a better scumtell after you pointed it out. This suggests that you think town are more likely to respond to accusations by changing the way they play – which seems like rubbish.

Actually, this makes sense. May I ask why you wait to defend townies with impending lynches after they are out of danger?

[popsofctown]

All right. I don't see any obvscum, so I'm voting CSL

Vote: CSL

CSL has been ridiculously scummy this game. People who claim he's readable will say that means he's scum, but I really doubt he's readable. But hey, for those of you who think he is somehow readable (like DGB who can read him because he used exactly two apostrophes in his last post, WOO!) then you should realize you should join me on this wagon because he's being as scummy as a player gets.

[popsofctown]

Day 2 Vote Count

CSL ( 2 ) Rhinox popsofctown
elvis_knits ( 1 ) mykonian
evilsnail ( 3 ) Raskol fishythefish Ellibereth
farside22 ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 1 ) evilsnail
Hoopla ( 1 ) farside22
gayle ( 0 )
mykonian ( 0 )
ojanen ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 3 ) gayle Hoopla elvis_knits
Raskol ( 0 )
Rhinox ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 2 ) ojanen CSL
Total Votes ( 13 )

With 13 alive, 7 needed to lynch.
Deadline: Feb 22nd 19:00 EST

Well that makes me like my vote less...

unvote csl; vote popsofctown

Pops is not scum hunting this game. He's making a lot of jokes, off-topic comments about avatars or whatever. I am fine with jokes and banter, but not if you don't also scum hunt. He's not asking many questions, and if he does ask questions they don't seem very probing. Like he's not trying. He's not engaging people in discussion to try to find out their allignment. He's sitting there, making a few half-hearted attempts, and making sure people like him because he's saying funny stuff.

And now he's like "I don't see and obvscum, so vote CSL. BTW CSL has been ridiculously scummy this game." If he's been ridiculously scummy, why isn't he obvscum? I don't get it. I don't think pops is helping.

elvis, you aren't listening. I believe CSL to be unreadable, whether he does things that are universally scummy or not. So he's not obvscum, he has an unfortunate chance of flipping town, but he has to be lynched because there's no way to read him. I believe in policy lynches no matter what my alignment is, so attacking me for a disagreement in theory isn't really fair. I think the best way to play the game is to remove the unreadables and then start scumhunting.

[popsofctown]

I'm sorry e_k. Part of it is homework load variation. It saps away how much time i tell myself I'm gonna spend when I click on mafiascum, and sometimes that means I don't dig into the scumhunting so much. Kinda like Fishy.

[popsofctown]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10451

Here's a game where I go off topic as town. I don't remember charming people with offtopic banter last game. Offtopic banter doesn't really get me anywhere, I just do it with either alignment because it's how I enjoy the game.


And OMG. Fishy had real life time constraints! And pops had real life time constraints too! OMG, that's such a unique, rarely seen excuse, pops must totally be copying fishy.

[popsofctown]

I said there wasn't obvscum because most of the many various cases that have been presented are crap.

[popsofctown]

Evilsnails case is meh. If anything farside puts herself in a position to go any direction she wants more than evilsnail does.

[popsofctown]

...and FYI I think the OU just hammered jack. So we're probably going to lose or gain a player in the next couple days.

THIS IS WHY THE NO SQUEAL/NO SQUEAL CORNER OF THE PRISONER'S DILEMMA DOESNT WORK

[popsofctown]

@e_k: If I didn't feel way too strongly about ABRscum yesterday, who should I have voted? One of the people at L-massive that I really thought was scummy? Should I have cut to the chase and voted NoLynch? Get real.

[popsofctown]

Hopefully after I finish my physics homework I can spend some time in this thread to examine people.

[popsofctown]

vote: Rhinox

Rhinox iso 10 seems like it could be a deliberate approach to the biggest wagon at that point (DGB).
Prior to it Rhinox has only mentioned DGB a little, in positive light for the early stance of myko's self meta question being scummy.

The meta evidence on DGB is pretty damning, unless DGB does this as town too. I've never played with DGB before and I'm too lazy to do the research myself, so anyone ready to level with me and come do DGB's defense? I've seen these go both ways though.

Ugh. This says nothing except that it's damning unless it isn't.

+echoes Fishy about DGB being scummy for not paying enough attention on who actually answered mykos question (though he originally liked DGB's stance on the scumminess of the question itself).
Next mention of DGB is straight up this:

DGB 709: I agree with you here. But I also find you very scummy. If I don't vote for CSL today, I'll be voting for you.

and

Also, I'm going to go ahead and ask what makes you think he is town?

If he were scum he would have bothered to BS a list of 5 names. If only not to incur the wrath of his buddies, ie, peer pressure. But he didn't bother. He's a free agent, he's town.

Using this logic, you are very scummy for the lists you've been throwing around all game.

Bad context reading btw, DGB asked specifically for 5 names and that's where the CSL townread referred to.

I figured out something thats been bothering me about DGB.
[...]

Very small thing, but the wording slightly bothers me due to its activeness. (I associate to a need to find a reason.)
And votes DGB to L-1.
I think elvis brings a good point in this post about the L-1 reasoning - it's basically again the same kind of porridge as the DGB meta being damning unless she does it as town too.

After mason claim and before N1, comes online twice with several posts and an unvote, but they are mostly teleporting theory - no new vote, not going back to earlier CSL vote even though he eyerolls at CSL's bandwagoning, no real comment other than that about ABR lynch that is happening although he earlier expressed not being suspicious of ABR.

Hi ellibereth nice to see you again. Why should we not lynch you on the spot, considering your former uni thought it better to be rid of you than gain a confirmed townie in DGB, aparently? Why did you vote CSL before reading the thread?

Plus there is definite U1 scum motivation for this.

Rhinox is town.


DGB is going to ruin this game. Everyone is going to lynch eachother based on varying reactions to the town aligned, anti-town DGB, even though few of these reactions are alignment correlated.

Someone help me with my physics homework so I can come to this thread for more than 2 minutes.

[popsofctown]

physics took too much of my energy and time for me to feel like posting very well.


Rhinox is town because he's scumhunting, a lot, and has generally been reading pretty accurate.


And OJ's case is crap. iso 10 is a call for more info on DGB's meta. Yes, every single post that isn't "I investigated her last night and the mod told me she was scum" is ultimately "she is scum unless she isn't". Rhinox was just pointing out what info was necessary for a meta read to be conclusive.

Rhinox's logic is totally correct about DGB later on. DGB asserts that CSL is townie because he doesn't list 5 players he thinks seems townie. That suggests that DGB thinks listing townreads is scummy.

Since DGBs lists have included several townreads all game, she should have seemed scummy by her own logic.

Then the end of Oj's post is more info than analysis. I don't see why Oj should be topping everyone's townlists right now. Or any of the other players with far less actual content than me that are getting free passes just because when I do present reads in this thread, people don't agree with me and think that merits a vote.

[popsofctown]

My vote for pops:

As I said in my last post, I dislike pops's play in the DGB wagon. I don't like the reasons he gave for voting either time he voted DGB, and I don’t like the way he hopped off the wagon in the middle, again with fairly bad reasoning. I find it difficult to believe pops was being honest about his opinions on DGB – much more like he was looking for excuses to hop on that wagon. Pops hasn’t given many votes this game, nor a huge number of cases, and not believing one of them was earnest is a significant thing.

Well, I was earnest *shrug*

My gut says funny things as I read pops’s posts. It doesn’t feel like his agenda is to find and lynch scum, but nor does it feel like he’s just attacking people to look good. The closest I can come is it feels like he is disagreeing people for its own sake. I don’t really know what to make of this – it could be another way to try and look protown, or it could just be a playstyle thing. This isn't part of my case.

I'm finding a lot more things I disagree with ITT than things I agree with. If I can figure out in which cases this is linked to alignment, I'd be good to go.

I don’t much like pop’s reactions to the wagon on him. The “DGB is going to ruin this game” line is strawmanning the case on him by saying it’s based on a dead and controversial player, when AFAIC that simply isn’t true. Then there’s “don’t lynch me, I post stuff. Lynch the lurkers” – which is a bit horrible because there’s no particular reason to think the lurkers are scum.

You have to understand what I'm saying. I feel like people are accusing eachother based on their varying interpretations of DGBtown. And usually that's a valid way to go about things, because the people who read the player wrong often did so because they are town. But DGB is a very unusual player and I think townies can have very varying judgments of her play, so they are using a point that isn't very valid.

I was saying "don't lynch me, i post stuff", in response to "lynch him, he doesn't post stuff". I think it's a very fair response. "there's no particular reason to think the lurkers are scum" is a false statement that shows a lack of awareness of site meta: lurking is positively correlated with scumming (not lynchworthy on its own, but this is an accepted tell).

I'm not voting any lurkers for lurking right now, if you'll notice (I'm voting CSL, for poor play up till now and a low level of expected readability), I'm saying if people want to be stupid and lynch someone only because they don't produce content, they should pick someone who, you know, ACTUALLY DOESN'T PRODUCE CONTENT.

Incidentally, unreadable players whose flip wouldn’t tell us much and who don’t help the town are pretty good choices for teleporting, if you don’t have any mega scumreads.

This is a good point.. unvote. Looks like we'll probably be doing push push pull, and the teleporter may very well push CSL for us. I'm a fan of "leave policy kills to the vig", there's a lot of good logic behind it.

@Hoopla: who is scum? Why are you posting so briefly, and not giving us reads?

@other people: is this usual for Hoopla?

The only unusual part is anyone complaining

In particular @pops: you are advocating the policy lynch of CSL for being unreadable. Do you find Hoopla more readable than CSL? If so, how do you read him?

Hoopla is much more readable than CSL. I've only played one game with the two of them, but I felt like I could see much more evidence of alignment out of Hoopla than out of CSL. She started out lolsheeping like this in the other game, then started actually posting occasionally. It was enough.

Rhinox case is ok. Pretty poor posts on DGB, and deadline activity certainly fits well with scum. He goes on my scumlist, which looks now goes pops>CSL>Rhinox. I'd settle for any of these lynches if it got us a quick lynch.

Wat. You can't have CSL lynched and teleported too. Why would you settle for his lynch if you yourself said it doesn't give any information?

unvote

. I'm going to take the advice Fish himself won't take. If we make lynches we know are suboptimal to catch up with the OU, we've already lost.

[popsofctown]

crap. do you have to capitalize red? mod help please

[popsofctown]

Too bad Fishy and Evilsnail didn't use all that time they spent arguing to hunt far more obvious scum: "Lurk and Lie" CSL,"Wagon Hop" Pops, and "Respond to everything with a flurry of misleading arguments" Myko.

The people voting evilsnail for Elli's point are being ridiculous. Why do you guys keep going for this "scumslip" nonsense? Elli made a similar point about Jack, and look what happened. Please don't lynch over such a stupid reason.

I like this post, and not just because of the point about me. Scum-Gayle has no real reason to tie herself to three wagons that clearly. It could really come back to haunt her.

Pops's response to Ojanen seems off. Considering that pops is pursuing a policy lynch on CSL and not making a case on anyone himself, dismissing all available cases out of hand is really unproductive. Also, I think Ojanen made some fair points about Rhinox's play. I read over pops's ISO and she hasn't contributed real cases in a long time (which I realise now some players have been pointing out for a while). I don't know how this measures up to pops's meta, but it is certainly not helping us.

omg ur right. lynching my strongest town read makes WAY more sense than a policy lynch.

vote: Rhinox

. except no,

unvote

.

Stringing up people as fast as humanly possible is the scum's idea of productive. Which is the root of why several people are suspicious of you.

[popsofctown]

/ghostkill

Oh, so you're actually here and reading, just not posting content. Good to know.

You're suprised?

Go to that page where you you can see someone's last 100 posts. It won't matter what games their in. CSL's is post after post after post of posts that are fit into a single line. I jawdropped when I saw it.

[popsofctown]

You should have been actively looking for scum, and been pushing for somebody you thought was scum to get lynched. Instead you were waiting for the scum to come to you, and when it didn't happen you went "oh well, vote dgb or abr or whatever you people have decided." You should have been proactive. You weren't.

Sorry for multiposting, accidentally read the thread out of order.





Are you serious e_k? In deadline zone, you wanted me to find someone totally new I felt was scummy, convince a majority of the town to abandon all the popular wagons to go after that person, and then lynched them? You need to be more practical. Seriously.

[popsofctown]

Since there have been calls for me to dig harder for scum although nothing jumps out at me, I'm going to do some isos. Or at least one. Let's not underestimate the power League of Legends has at calling me away.

what are your scumtells when you are scum?

Oh come on this question sucks why should I share my scum tells to hurt me in other games?

I can already hear the people ready to lynch me for the above

but telling people your scum tells does hurt you for other games.
idk I range with being quiet, lurky to talkative depending on the game. I do bus my scum partner on many occasions I can think of. I think I jump on cases just with a me too kind of post at times if I feel lost in a game and I don't know where else to go. I notice I don't try to motivate a game and I purposly miss things that are scum tells from my partner if I think they are safe from a lynch or being voted on.
Obviously my scum tell is on a wide range because acting the same in a game means people know you to be scum and use that meta against you.

Pre-emptive defenses are generally unnecessary and generally little scumtells from players who have a greater concern for preserving their lives. I'm surprissed I missed this (bolding mine).

unvote:
vote: Gayle

Farside has voted a whole whole lot in this thread, that's some of what concerns me. She's ready and rarin to go if a lynch can reach L-0, but goes elsewhere if it won't, as it seems to me. That's not to say she doesn't have player she decides to not vote at all and declare town, she does, but that too seems overly correlated with lynchability ITT.

unvote:
vote: Raskol

Fos: DGB
Fos: Gayle

(your comments about stradey talk not providing scum hunting and thinking RVS is better is terrible logic

Lots of mobility.

ABR doesnt' feel town to me. Call it gut but I'm just thinking of our last game together and he feels off to me.

Gut reads are ok. Posting gut reads without voting is fail, it tells no one anything, but is sometimes used by scum for "it's ok for me to BW this person later".

okay deffinately not seeing this as EK town play now.
Yeah it's meta based and orginally I saw she was absent from MS so her lack of comments was expected but now I don't see this as the overly vocal EK that is typically town.

unvote:
vote: EK

Farside votes E_k, but doesn't stick with it when it doesn't gain that much popularity. I didn't see E_k do much to change her mind.

unvote:
vote: flareonage

Still 3 more players to read thru but this needs to be addressed!

The unvote off e_k is gonna be really good right? Since farside spent tons of time in the thread explaining why e_k was scummy, right? Except no. Who farside wants to lynch has little correlation with whom she has scumtells for.

Unless e_k has done mystical towntell 3.14159 that no scum players know of yet, she can't be worse than flareonage, who has hardly even posted. Farside doesn't even explain here why e_k is off the hook. She just is.

But yeah farside is total town. So is elvis.

Mykonian and ABR are still scum. Mykonian is the current vote leader, though. I don't care which one of those scumbags dies first.

unvote:
vote: DGB

She gets all up on myko and that slip that plum posted but says nothing in regards to flame's comment.

I'm going into the ABR school of scum hunting and taking the head off the snake here.

Yes, farside was also on the DGB wagon, although to read D2 sometimes you might be surprised how little it's mentioned.

Sorry I'm not bitting on this. First I have DGB clearly not reading the game at hand. She then calls ABR on not reading which is

hypocritcal

of her.
She attacks evil for answering the question about what you do as scum but doesnt' attack fishy or myself for answering that same question
Attacks myko for asking the question.

Attacks EK for meta then backs off without a reason.

Declares Flare town and raskol is agreeing with her even with this quote and after everyone's slip comment with myko

Yeah but scum is influencing all that strategy talk and they're gonna push for the town to do what they want. I think the teleporter should just keep to themselves and do whatever they want with their action

Flares reasoning is completely trying to just fluff it as nothing.

Also I will note DGB tried horribly to discredit me in my comments while adding nothing to what I said.
Awesome stuff.
I'm calling DGB/Raskol/Flare scum team with either pops (for defending but saying she wasn't defending DGB comment) or EK for saying I can't read DGB and offers next to nothing in regards to her.

Bolded mine. Lol. She hypocritically attacks DGB for backing off on a case for no reason, which she's the queen of, and in the same post says DGB is scummy for her hypocrisy. Which is then, hypocritical. It actually makes a recursive loop of hypocrisy if you look at it.... [/CS major]

Gayle is my hero and makes me love her more now then ever in this game.

unvote:
vote: pops

I will tell you why I don't see ABR as scum. First I have seen ABR not post much as town in the begining. I asked him to lay out a case and I am leaning on personal issues between him and DGB.
That said I would go for a pops lynch based on her comments towards DGB, not offering much in convo, following others and well I think she is scum.

This is a vote that isn't opportunistic, granted, because ABR was an easier lynch at that point than I was. But by that point she had already defended ABR too much, trying to amp up support for the DGB side of the coin until the claim occured.


The fact that DGB went for me of all people is very bizarre at this point in the game. With her number one suspect down, she had a massive backlog of prior votes she could go back to. Intuitively, one of these people should be a better lynch than me.

She attacks me for my comments towards DGB, which had a very large overlap with hers. The only time she mentioned me being scummy before this point is when she said I could be scum for todally defending my scumpartner DGB, which is invalid at that point. She sheeps onto Gayle's case to the exclusion of what she herself generally developed, when sheeping is something she said she does as scum.

In a later post [not quoted] she "improves" her case by attacking me for attacking Gayle: a player she herself attacked with a vote and thought scummy earlier. You can be wrong about Gayle, but only if you're farside.

unvote:
vote: ABR

Granted, I voted the player as well, but farside defended ABR a lot more than I did. She votes him in response to the softcounterclaim (backspaced it out of this post, should have left it, eh), which really didn't seem like that much to me. So again, doesn't seem like farside is following stated convictions with votes.

Overall I don't like farside's D1 play.

vote: farside22

Next I ought to read evilsnail because I'm somewhat worried that I defend him in error.

[popsofctown]

omg ur right. lynching my strongest town read makes WAY more sense than a policy lynch.

vote: Rhinox

. except no,

unvote

.

Stringing up people as fast as humanly possible is the scum's idea of productive. Which is the root of why several people are suspicious of you.

Your response has nothing to do with what I said. I never said you should vote Rhinox. Just that it seems weird that you've been dismissing all of these cases without giving us anything better. I would understand if you felt you had a stronger case, but you don't.

That has nothing to do with stringing up people as fast as possible either. And I don't see how this is at the "root of why several people are suspicious of me." I'm being wagonned for a lack of activity/content, which is precisely the opposite.

If this is you readying yourself to vote me, please try harder next time.

see 1195. it's kind of like the case on you, except accurate.

[popsofctown]

well, I'm not blood dripping fangs sure about it, which is why i favored CSL lynch until the teleportation idea was proposed.

[popsofctown]

Do you have to unvote an invalid vote?..

1203 is goodposting

[popsofctown]

Anyway, Hoopla, I noticed that all the other females in this game are town, now that Plum has been excommunicated.

Yes, why leave the females' agreement not to lynch eachother unspoken? :eyeroll:

[popsofctown]

Maelyn has entered this universe

If you vote me for President, I will tighten up border control....

[popsofctown]

/apply

[popsofctown]

Hey pops, can I read some of your town games? I only know you from Mafia 105.

Just a sec

[popsofctown]

http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11211

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9597

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10451

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... c&&start=0

i robbed 3 of them from Vi's wiki and googled myself for the other one.

That's not a complete list, it's just 4 recent town games.

[popsofctown]

compared to mafia 105 or compared to this game?

either way, disagree. Pie E7 I couldn't focus at all. Mafia jailbreak I was lynched for not being serious, fluffposting, and basically trying to enjoy mafia.

[popsofctown]

Day 2 Vote Count

CSL ( 1 ) Rhinox
elvis_knits ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 2 ) Ellibereth farside22
farside22 ( 1 ) popsofctown
fishythefish ( 1 ) evilsnail
Hoopla ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
mykonian ( 0 )
ojanen ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 3 ) gayle elvis_knits fishythefish
Raskol ( 1 ) mykonian
Rhinox ( 1 ) ojanen
Maelyn ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 4 ) CSL Raskol Hoopla Maelyn
Total Votes ( 14 )

With 14 alive, 8 needed to lynch.
Deadline: Feb 22nd 19:00 EST

[popsofctown]

Fishy, my point is that DGB is difficult to read and it's really harsh that the brunt of the case of me is failing to read DGB correctly and attacking her insincerely. And ultimately, "attacking her insincerely" is really just "being on the wagon of a dead townie", because NO ONE said anything about me being insincere until after DGB flipped town.

[popsofctown]

your case was too long, I just read the last line. Makes it sound like I should vote Mykonian.

[popsofctown]

your case was too long, I just read the last line. Makes it sound like I should vote Mykonian.

You should vote Pops. That dude is just blatantly scummy.

Orly?

[popsofctown]

Speaking for myself, I failed to think hard enough about your vote until after DGB was lynched. I don't think this makes my reason for voting any worse.

ITT we learn about confirmation bias. That's where we read the same exact thing as someone else, or something we already read before, and change our interpretation based on the conclusion we want to reach.


My attacks on DGB weren't insincere until my voting record looked ugly. I believe that you actually reread a lot, which can change because it's a fresh look, but a lot of other people have less reason to suddenly bring this up after DGB flipped town and after I became pretty lynchable.

[popsofctown]

[Lynch Quickly]

If the thread is growing quickly it is because there is a lot of discussion. You are suggesting quick lynching in order to purposely stifle discussion. That is an awfully scummy suggestion.

Also, pops and Elli agree with your strategy, and they are both scum.

Hoopla genuinely believes every word of that, whichever alignment she has Gayle. She said the same thing in Mafia 105 when she was town. Wait, you had no way of knowing that..

I made a post about it.

did you?


It's k. I know it's easier for you to get to your wincon by calling it scummy first and doing any necessary homework later.



@Myko: who are you voting and why? Your posts are long walls of defense, and I space out by the time you talk about any targets.

[popsofctown]

When you ignore questions from other posters you're pretty useless

[popsofctown]

Seems like another innocent victim of the girls' club. I don't remember anything against him making sense, but he gets attacked all the time.

[popsofctown]

Seems like another innocent victim of the girls' club. I don't remember anything against him making sense, but he gets attacked all the time.

Then why did you post this:

When you ignore questions from other posters you're pretty useless.

Because it just seemed like you were enflaming the myko-hate by posting that, and enouraging more fighting.

(Also, "another innocent victim of the girls' club" really rubs me the wrong way. You can consider your application denied.)

It was a playful joke. Look at the times, I actually ninja'ed him and knew so.

[popsofctown]

Farside22 case

I don't want to contradict that case on my scumbuddy and get linked to her, or support it and kill her until I see everybody else react. Instead let's lynch pops for not posting content by calling everything I disagree with "not content", and lynch him for using such obviously insincere methods of scumhunting as observing exact copies of play a player committed as scum. First. Omgsheep.

[popsofctown]

Rhino is an obvious town read.

[popsofctown]

Day 2 Vote Count

CSL ( 2 ) Rhinox Hoopla
elvis_knits ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 1 ) farside22
farside22 ( 1 ) popsofctown
fishythefish ( 1 ) evilsnail
Hoopla ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
mykonian ( 0 )
ojanen ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 4 ) gayle elvis_knits fishythefish Ellibereth
Raskol ( 1 ) mykonian
Rhinox ( 1 ) ojanen
Maelyn ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 3 ) CSL Raskol Maelyn
Total Votes ( 14 )


With 14 alive, 8 needed to lynch.
Deadline: Feb 22nd 19:00 EST

I can't change my mind?

I don't look at your sig.

[popsofctown]

I noticed it. I figured you were probably going with the lay low style of defense.

No one agreed with the case so you know. Although i thought I got scummy reactions.

[popsofctown]

ITT farside learns to read VIs

[popsofctown]

No, CSL. That's not analysis.

[popsofctown]

vote: pops

Lets do this and ask the teleporter to get CSL out of here.

omgus?

and

unvote, vote CSL

A nicer lynch than me. Although i agree he makes a good tele target

[popsofctown]

well oh dear. I should have defended myself properly since everyone ITT doesn't steamroll through my defenses with confirmation bias [/sarcasm]

[popsofctown]

If not in response to your question, it's in several of my older posts.

[popsofctown]

he frequently scumhunts in an original way.

[popsofctown]

No, i never do.

[popsofctown]

I never "need" to. I answered your baited, leading question properly.

[popsofctown]

CSL was town in mafia 105. He played pretty anti town, refused to defend himself, and requested replacement right before he was lynched.

I don't think I started giving blank "rhinox is town"s before the first time I actually gave reasons. In any case, DGB yells blank town reads as scum, which is why it was fishy. If someone reads my backlog and I do that as scum, then they can call it, all's fair. I don't see any way to link it to wincons so it was mostly a meta thing.

I answered it because I have nothing to hide in this game. I saw no reason not to talk about it for this game. My biggest problem with be those who will use it later in other games.

That may be true, but you said the question sucks and then answered it in the same post. Seemed like you were trying to appease myko. If a question sucks, not answering it does not make you scum.

[/quote]

Fishy brings up a good point about DGB in this post. If DGB was so concerned that answering mykos question was scummy, why wasn't she paying more attention to see who all actually answered the question. That would be an excellent opportunity for a townie to catch scum. Instead, DGB was lazy about it. It makes it seem like scum lazy pretend scum hunting. A townie genuinely scum hunting would have been keeping a close eye out for other players committing the tell.

That's Analysis, whether or not DGB flipped scum.

It seems you put more stock in the myko slip over time, why?

Considering I used diminishing adjectives in both of those quotes, there's not anything to explain here. My opinion of the myko slip did not change, it's small, and probably not indicative of alignment.

The context of the first one is a response to a forceful push against myko, the second is from being asked for an overall opinion of myko. It's just context.

[ABR]
85% deadline exaggerated. I didn't believe that there would be a superior lynch coming soon. CSL would have been better, but this town is vehemently opposed to the concept of policy lynching.

[popsofctown]

You don't read players as scum? Then you're doing it wrong.


I didn't check to see if DGBtown does that. Seems like that should be DGB's job. She didn't even use that line of defense.


He expounds on what fishy says. He adds a lot more. You're saying there's nothing new about the mechanical carriage because it has ancient wheels on it, not fair at all.

[popsofctown]

Policy lynches can logically take priority over people who are a bit past the 50/50 mark on being scum rather than town. Since you don't even understand policy lynches at all, I doubt you'll understand how this can be the case.

CSL was even chances town. He's pretty much always going to be even chances town. His standard of play is so antitown that in 1 day he can probably only move a percent mark in either direction. (he's inching towards scum, but as I'm saying it's largely irrelevant.)

ABR, based on his D1 play, was a readable player who would put out more info over time.

Look at it this way. If CSL had a 50% chance of being scum d1, and ABR had a 54% chance, I would lynch CSL first. Because the next day, ABR would jump up to 64 or drop to 44 and I could make a more informed decision regarding him. If CSL is saved for later, I don't get any more info, it's still 50.

[popsofctown]

hydras are OP. They have daytalk no matter what.

[popsofctown]

Have you btw played with DGB scum before or did the meta information come to you from ABR's case this thread?

I played with DGB scum. Weren't you here yesterday? oh right, you weren't. It's lynch-the-actives mafia. *ker-sigh*

I'm gonna have to start looking past my lynch a little bit now. While I didn't like the case on evilsnail earlier, he's not coming strong on my wagon, you should look at him after I flip. Maybe not farside anymore. I'm starting to think she's just stubborn and doesn't get anything.

Ojanen should NOT be on people's townlists, she dodged the thread all day to day, came back and found the politically correct lynch, did an iso and "investigated" to make it her own and (is probably about to) stick her vote in the scummy L-approaches zero slot. But I guess I can't expect her to get much grief for this until postflip.

[popsofctown]

............................


umad?

[popsofctown]

I figured out something thats been bothering me about DGB. ABR-scum wouldn't be pursuing a personal vendetta, he would just be trying to force mislynch. For ABR to be tunneling because of a personal vendetta, that would point to ABR being town. DGB is arguing that a personal vendetta from ABR makes ABR scum, and that is just not the case.

Unless ABR has a vendetta that puts lynching DGB above his wincon regardless of allignment, which makes the tunneling a null tell, but makes ABR anti-town for doing so.

Clearly town aligned analysis like this.

[popsofctown]

should i claim yet?

[popsofctown]

I'm the teleporter.

I'll teleport CSL tonight, if you hold off this inane lynch.


If you lynch me through the claim, I suspect elvis the most of being the scum on my wagon. She's been pushing me the most "just because".

Rhinox isn't scum. Myk and fishy probably aren't. CSL probably is, because the actives dont seem that scummy.

[popsofctown]

Less than stellar D1 play, didn't feel like digging around for a better target. I didn't want to teleport away CSL until N2, because since I have a rep for being pretty serious about policy lynching/vigging, the mafia could guess that I might be teleporter and shoot me.


I didn't counterclaim CSL because CSL was SOFTclaiming. Even you know better than that farside. Reacting to the softclaim anymore than anyone else did would out my own role.

[popsofctown]

No. I don't breadcrumb as a PR.

[popsofctown]

Awesome! I won! I forgot about this game, I'm glad my efforts brought victory.

Both my D1 and D2 strategy was based on me probably getting lynched. I just did my best to support my scumpartners.