R-SURVIVAL -- Game Over

[Anon]

I'm still here, Albert Rampage.

I was away for Christmas.

[Anon]

What exactly are we doing here?

Can someone explain me the rules quick? I just came back from a plane and my head hurts.

[Anon]

@bird, thanks for the quick answer.

I see we are random picking nacho as gatekeeper. What happens if we pick a scum gatekeeper?

[Anon]

wtf, tajo is anon?

No, my roommate is tajo. He left his account on and I posted on it.

[Anon]

Reposting this:

What exactly are we doing here?

Just vote me for Gatekeeper and stop trying to stall for your scumbuddies.

Im not stalling anything, Im analyzing the possible outcomes of this election.

@bird, yeah, I think you are right, it shouldnt have that much effect.

Gat: nacho.

[Anon]

Reposting this:

What exactly are we doing here?

Just vote me for Gatekeeper and stop trying to stall for your scumbuddies.

Im not stalling anything, Im analyzing the possible outcomes of this election.

Did you find anything of interest?

Yeah, I think that the gatekeeper being scum is slightly good for town.

First, a gatekeeper being scum means that player is not in the safezone and can be dayvigged.

Second, it brings pressure to the gatekeeper to pick carefully their choices, providing town with information, instead of having a lurkerscum, for example.

...

I think there should be a way to break the game with the ability to dayvig and to get confirmed with that ability. I think we should have two suspects for day and that instead of a claim, a suspected player should be forced to dayvig the other suspected player. Or something like that, Im still thinking on it.

[Anon]

Lost some access the past days.

Anyways, here are some thoughts:

- I dont like these scenarios where people keep talking about game mechanics instead of scumhunting. I think there is some guilt of the mod in this, rules should be clear instead of people constantly asking questions about possible scenarios.

- With that said, I think everyone sould start stating their opinions about what is happening so far.

- For example, I find myself agreeing with oldguy about many things. The safezone doesnt provide an inmediate advantage to town but I can see it being useful in case we have confirmed townies or people who we have strong town reads on, so that we cant let scum kill these people. Also, using it as a dump of information -(re: gatekeeper and his choices) in case there is scum manipulation there.

- Ortolan, why are you not voting yabba after calling him highly likely to be scum?

[Anon]

I lost internet access for a few days. Im rereading now.

[Anon]

Ok, not missed much.

First, I dont think ortolan was rolefishing there. Also, I think that scum have less probabilities of "blatant" rolefishness. Ortolan is really trying to lead the town and forcing to state opinions which is a good thing, imo.

Regarding the poll, I have no idea what is a closed, open, semiopen setup. Can someone explain it to me?

[Anon]

yabbaguy, who do you think is scum?

[Anon]

I isolated Cobalt and didnt really get much info. One lines about the game and not much interactions with people alive.

Something that caught my mind is that Cobalt is pushing too much the idea that there are power roles in the game.

Wait: easy fix. Majority members who know themselves to be bulletless are basically miller equivalents and should claim straightaway.

Not if they are power roles.

Guys, look closely at chamber and charter tomorrow.

This quote makes me think chamber and charter are prob town since scum cobalt attacked them. Also charter killed cobalt.

Why was bird killed then? Did the scum think he was a power role when he qfted cobalt's post (see above)? Other than that, I dont see bird pressuring someone in his iso.

[Anon]

Site is being stupid and I just lost a catchup post while loading safadfdaf.

Tonight.

[Anon]

There are too many lurkers to have a valid read on everyone. I have some things I dont like about some guys but nothing really incriminatory.

Ortolan led the town yesterday /towntell imo but something about him pushing charter instead of analysing people with more likeliness of being scum rubs me wrong. @Ort, what is your motivation for concentarting on charter?

chamber and charter = his interaction with cobalt makes me think they are town. I agree with what semioldugy is saying and the math things he is posting. He seems to put a lot of thought and very interested in the game which makes me think he is town.

@Dramonic = what do you think of what semoioldugy posted?

@Bogre, I Isolated you, what was the motivation of the "I WANTED TO DO THAT" when you were quoting charter vigging cobalt?

[Anon]

I'd like Anon to have a shot at chamber. I think it's scummy lurking on both their parts, and I think chamber should die anyway.

First, I have something called real life that was a pain on the ass the last weeks. I should be able to post more now. See my other games for reference.

Second, Id rather shot someone I find suspicious instead of someone I think its likely town for interactions with flipped scum cobalt, as I explained in my previous posts. Do you have another reason other than lurking for pushing chamber?

Here is a list for better organization:

i like
4) chamber
8) charter
12) semioldguy

meh
1) Ortolan
6) yabbaguy

i dont like
7) Bogre
10) DragonsofSummer
15) HackerHuck

Vote: DragonofSummer.

Kill: HackerHuck

[Anon]

Wy do you think I am scum, charter?

[Anon]

Lack of protownness.

Fair enough. Now that I have actual time, Im definitely going to post more.

@Anon
Why did you shoot HackerHuck? You hadn't mentioned him at all prior to shooting him.

It doesnt matter anymore but since you are asking, I isolated him, cobalt and nacho and found two things that bothered me specifically:

I don't think it needs to be done publicly unless we've really got doubts about Nachomamma. I also don't understand the recent suspicion on Nachomamma. Has someone put together anything better than Ortolan's case and Ellibereth's gut?

Defense of nachoscum without suspecting the attackers.

Elli's just playing devil's advocate, and I don't even get the case on HH.

That is paid back in this quote of nacho.

Then from a general perspective, process of elimination, hated his active lurking, his only vote on the game that is a blatant follow of yabbaguy for a weak reason and finally the very likely assumption that elibereth was killed because hacker was a top suspect of him.

[Anon]

Isolation Bogre

The I wanted to vig Cobalt, NOOOOO is still there.

I thought the moral was you decided pbpas are a scumtell and decided to waste a lynch for it?

Nah. I thought you doing anything productive like a pbpa was out of form for you, but charter shot first.

Was glad I was right, though.

As Eli pointed out, what was the point of talking to a dead guy that had already flipped scum? What is the town motivation for doing this?

He votes for Nachoscum in iso 12, though, which gives him some town points.

Bogre, who is scum and why?

Isolation DragonofSummer

DoS doesnt even mention cobalt or nacho in his isos, with the exception of an unrelated comment of nacho.

DOS, who is scum and why?

[Anon]

FYI, I was the one who shot Hacker yesterday.

Oldguy should shoot one of Dos or ortolan, preferably dos.

Still thinking charter and chamber are town.

Chamber has been replaced in some games, check that Albert Rampage.

[Anon]

Posting to avoid prod.

Really busy. Posting tomorrow.

[Anon]

Just got back from a long trip.

Everyone but sog has shot so far. His claim cant be proven, seems illogical in a game with no other power roles claimed. /I think we should massclaim to check this, though. Also, just thought of something, correct me if Im wrong, but since this is a semiopen game and there is a mafia PM in the OP, that means that at least one mafia is not 1-shot vig.

Still thinking charter and chamber/fonz are town, so my choice for voting would be between (sog, dos and ortolan).

Ortolan, please explain clearly in your next post why do you think I am scum.

[Anon]

Ortolan, please explain clearly in your next post why do you think I am scum

[Anon]

I isolated sog and found myself agreeing with my past about him being very active and reasoning town from the beginning.

But

I really dont think we can trust him being an unprovable power role in what appears to be a all vanilla game with two dead scum that didnt shoot and an op that says the same thing.

And.

I dont see the game moving or people caring but charter.

Vote: Semioldguy.

[Anon]

We are 6. Assuming worse scenario, 2 scum left. We are effectively in Lylo. This means that we have to pick scum today and go to an awful 3-1 endgame.

As I said in my previous post and as much as I like sog's play during the whole game, I really dont think we can trust him being an unprovable power role in what appears to be a all vanilla game with two dead scum that didnt shoot and an op that says the same thing.

What makes you think dos is obv scum? Im finding myself thinking that dos and ortolan are both in the same level of scumminess.

Hope the replacement gives me a better idea of dos player slot.

[Anon]

Crymeariver, as much as I like to be read as town and unless Im missing something I dont remember being attacked by scum early.

Last post from CMAR feel genuine, though, like he is really trying to scumhunt. What does everyone think?

I still think not lynching sog would be a mistake. If there were another claimed power role I would believe it but it simply doesnt make sense in this setup where we also know that at least one scum cant shoot.

Charter or anyone, can you explain me how does picking a new gatekeeper could help? I dont get it.

[Anon]

Crymeariver, as much as I like to be read as town and unless Im missing something I dont remember being attacked by scum early.

Last post from CMAR feel genuine, though, like he is really trying to scumhunt. What does everyone think?

I still think not lynching sog would be a mistake. If there were another claimed power role I would believe it but it simply doesnt make sense in this setup where we also know that at least one scum cant shoot.

Charter or anyone, can you explain me how does picking a new gatekeeper could help? I dont get it.

I agree, he feels genuine, but it won't erase Dragons's scumminess.

I believe picking a new gatekeeper (the person we're about to lynch) helps us out because they can then GAT people and if scum try and kill one of the people they GATed, the kill now becomes random. I think a random NK will be better than a scum controlled one. If SOG is scum, then GATting him isn't going to make any difference, but if he's town, then it can potentially help us out.

Makes sense and I dont see it doing any harm in the worse scenario.

Gat: SOG.

[Anon]

If I had to pick right now Id go with ortolan. Crymeariver has felt extremely genuine lately and charter is town from day 1.

Rereading time.

[Anon]

I think it's safe to say SOG didn't GAT anyone, that would just be idiotic on his part.

Need to reread the game again, but I want to go and look at how SOG started the last day, he must have known he was going to be lynched since he couldn't shoot, so I want to see what changed from day three I think to day four. Another thing to look at is whose kill makes the most sense for scum to make.

This is a good start.

@Crymeariver: I wouldnt believe a single thing scum said about something, so ortolan is right there. Also, I think its very unlikely, if not impossible, that SoG did indeed put somebody in the safezone. So I think something should come up of analyzing what he said.

[Anon]

I missed a "dont" in the last sentence. I think that the previous sentence is clear enough to express my opinion regarding what SOG said in his claim. (re: ortolan link). Anyways here is how the post should have been:

I think it's safe to say SOG didn't GAT anyone, that would just be idiotic on his part.

Need to reread the game again, but I want to go and look at how SOG started the last day, he must have known he was going to be lynched since he couldn't shoot, so I want to see what changed from day three I think to day four. Another thing to look at is whose kill makes the most sense for scum to make.

This is a good start.

@Crymeariver: I wouldnt believe a single thing scum said about something, so ortolan is right there. Also, I think its very unlikely, if not impossible, that SoG did indeed put somebody in the safezone. So I

dont

think something should come up of analyzing what he said.

[Anon]

but why is the post by charter saying "SoG didn't GAT anyone..." a "good start".

A good start was to do this:

Need to reread the game again, but I want to go and look at how SOG started the last day, he must have known he was going to be lynched since he couldn't shoot, so I want to see what changed from day three I think to day four. Another thing to look at is whose kill makes the most sense for scum to make.

Also, what Ortolan link?

Im referring to your case about Ortolan being scum taking into account what SOG said in his claim. As I said, I really dont think we can take into account what SOG said, rendering what he said about ortolan as null as it can get.

[Anon]

tell me you love me, why did you leave me, all alone?

wat

[Anon]

Page is being ridiculous stupid to load.

Im actually banging my head deciding whether crymeariver is scum desperately playing last cards or townie failing at scumhunting or scum trying to play the townie failing at scumhunting card.

Ex.

Two confirmed mafia (nacho and Cobalt) were accusing Anon on Day 1 (Page 2 and 4)...Mafia has no reason to bus this early and this in my mind clears Anon

Not only the reasoning to clear me is kinda weak and make me think this is possible buddying with me but why doesnt this reasoning (mafia has no reason to bus early) apply to charter who VIGGED scum day 1?

But

I cant stop thinking ortolan scum. After him calling me scum, he seems like is all aboard with charter in the crymeariver lynch, kinda subtly ("if you are town, wich I doubt").

Page 12 is as null as it can get. At this point of the game, basically everyone can be linked wrongly or rightly to scum alive at that moment. It seems there charter is "defending" nacho and sog is "trying" to push a wagon on ort but based on the rest of the game, charter is not nearly as scummy as ortolan. Pretty sure ort is going to agree there.

I think the benefits of no lynch are worth to try, though.

Vote: No lynch.

[Anon]

I think my reasons for the Charter scum were good enough...and of course I refer to myself as confirmed town...based on the pm I received I am confirmed town

Is.this.a.serious.post?

Also whats up with "my reasons

were

good enough"? They arent good enough today?

There is only one person that benefits from me being alive. And thats crymeariver.

Gosh, I would like to vote you so right now. But I cant shake the feeling of ortolan scum. Charter, why do you think ort is town?

[Anon]

Anon, where does your thinking Ortolan is scum come from?

Basically is his weird attack on me in his iso 67.

ok

Vote: SOG

I think Anon is last scum.

I demanded an explanation but never got one.

Could be influenced by omgus but at least I would expect him to follow this suspicion the next day. For some reason, that day he went aboard with you in the crymeariver lynch.

Then he tells me to go look page 12. But as I said, at this point of the game, basically everyone can be linked wrongly or rightly to scum alive at that moment. For example, if I read only that page for making a decision you would be scummy as hell.

@Ort, maybe if you tried explaining what can I get from page 12?

[Anon]

Im basically isolating and trying to find a reason for my paranoia.

Explain what I would stand to gain by doing this as scum otherwise yes, it is purely you being clouded by OMGUS and has no valid basis. It's really dumb especially when I never actively pushed for your lynch.

You cant blame me for thinking that you were planning my mislynch after Sog's lynch. When charter went all in with crymeariver, it really feels to me you forgot your suspicion on me and somehow escalated your suspicion on him from

I also have a good reason I think DoS is town which I don't want to say presently.

to

I'm trying to work out if your "ortolan is scummy no matter what" is bad logic because you're scum or if it's just bad play.

to

I wasn't completely sold on you being scum, but your readiness to vote in LYOL coupled with the fact I just remembered you were insisting on lynching town-me instead of obv-scum SOG yesterday so that you could endgame means I think you are probably most likely to be scum, yes.

OTOH, I was expecting more crymeariver defense knowing how vocal he was yesterday.

What are you thinking right now?

[Anon]

I've actually been giving a great deal of thought about Ort's alignment. A lot of it is a giant pile of WIFOM that largely applies to you as well. I've been saying pretty nonstop that I think Dragons was scum and that that's not going to change. I was actually thinking that if Anon got killed this past night, I'd just vote ortolan because I couldn't imagine Crymeariver would keep me alive over Anon when I'm saying nothing but "lynch cry" and I was just being kept alive to do that and was wrong about dragons.

I've essentially ruled Anon out as scum, since it seems like it would have made about a million times more sense for him to kill ortolan last night, then wait for me and Cry to vote each other and take his pick.

Along the same lines, if Ort was scum, killing Anon last night would have been good, but I can see potential reasons why he didn't. He might have been worried it would bring more scrutiny to him, since Anon keeps saying he thinks Ortolan is scum.

I think if Crymeariver is scum then no killing last night makes by far the most sense. Killing Anon wouldn't have been very good, since both me and ort have it out for him. Killing Ort would take away Anon's doubt that ort is scum and leave him voting crymeariver. Killing me would have eliminated a vote on him, which would help him, but at the same time would incriminate him. No killing makes the most sense for Crymeariver.

Another thing I've been thinking about is what the scum who could shoot's strategy was going to be in the game. Thinking about it now, it seems like it would be good for them to be constantly expressing suspicion of their buddies. However, at the beginning of the game, we didn't know a scum could shoot, so I haven't really thought about it that much up until now. The reverse of this fits nicely in to my Dragons as scum theory. SOG seemed to start bussing Dragons at some point in time, but it wasn't very strong, and then is later dropped once it's known he can't shoot. He pretty much gave up at that point.

Yet another thing I have been thinking about is all my comments yesterday about lynching crymeariver over SOG. SOG never really seemed to buy in to this, despite his previous earlier suspicions of dragons. He seems to think his best scum play is to just give up from the start of the day, though we were pressuring him to shoot, so if he tried to claim later that he couldn't shoot, that would have been a dead giveaway. The shift from voting dragons to just resigning, from what I see, only benefits him if Dragons is scum.

Plus, dragons' reaction to SOG's claim. It seems really planned out. Something I would bet, is that whoever SOG's buddy is, they planned to just bus him once he made his claim. Dragons does that but then immediately gets replaced. Cry kind of does it half way. He proposes two options, one is SOG and the other is not SOG, and then goes with the other. Kind of conflicting there, since if he read their QT, he would know what the plan was, but maybe he decided to try and just win that day? I dunno.

WIFOM aside, Dragons was just ridiculously scummy, and Crymeariver doesn't seem much better. Ortolan has been kind of neutral. It's not that I'm very sure that Ortolan is town, it's that I'm very sure that Cry is scum.

Anon, where does your thinking Ortolan is scum come from?

I really really really................. really dont see charter scum posting this.

[Anon]

I dont need prodding. I was away on the weekend.

Pretty sure I saw crymeariver posting in another game.

And ortolan.

Second charter question.

[Anon]

I seriously dont feel confortable enough in the scenario of voting cmar and ortolan winning after that.

Both of you, what is the logic reason for thinking charter scum?

[Anon]

Anon, at the start of the game what strategy did you think scum would use for the game?

Generate mislynches while trying to be protown while at the same time trying to avoid the fact they couldnt shoot.

Did you think there might be scum with special powers?

At the start of the game I didnt know what was a closed or an open setup. I even asked in my iso 8. I thought all the scum couldnt shoot so no, I didnt think there might be scum with special powers.

He was calling SOG obv-town (which I guess is forgivable if he's noob-town and doesn't realise any scumbag can write essay length pieces on setup speculation) for most of the game. This seems like viable scum behaviour- trying to take attention away from your buddy who you know cannot shoot.

Which is kinda dumb because at some point SOG would be outed as scum that couldn't shoot and I would be directly accused like now. Im also not a noob and I think that SOG wouldnt have been lynched ever if he could have shot. So my mistake went beyond clearing someone for "writing essay lenght pieces on setup speculation".

I also didn't like the way he said when the SoG wagon grew "I looked at my posts and I called him obv-town...but actually...no".

Sucks to be wrong. And sucks that you really cant take the chance of leaving alive one of your town reads who at the same time is so likely to be scum for game reasons. Theres nothing to like in someone admitting a mistake.

Ort, so basically you went from DOS is town, no reasons lol, to Anon is scum, no reasons lol, to CMAR is scum, to Im paranoid about charter, no reasons lol, to Anon is scum, weak raesoning lol, to DOS is town once again. In your words, why shouldnt I be paranoid about you?

Charter, why the unvote?

[Anon]

Also where is cmar?

[Anon]

I'm not sure if that is an accurate summation of my change in opinion. However I fail to see why that's scummy. Changing one's mind, even frequently is something town are around at least as likely to do as scum. It comes from rereading the game and considering new possibilities and approaches. It is why replacements are often very successful at catching scum, because they bring a new approach to the game.

Yeah, thats an accurate summation of your change in opinion and the one that has been bothered me to the bones since yesterday. Tell me why shouldnt I think you were expecting to get me lynched in case DOS' replacement wanted to lynch sog instead of you? Tell me why shouldnt I think you forgot about me and pushed CMAR once charter expressed some suspicion of that player slot you thought(think!) was town? Tell me why shouldnt I think you wanted me to vote CMAR so that you could hammer and win the game and now that this hasnt happened you are pushing against me?

Changing your mind isnt scummy per se, its just the context and what you could win as scum from those changes.

I don't actually understand what you are referring to here.

I was trying to say that of course you are not going to like when someone admits a mistake. Either you take it or leave it.

Sadly, cmar plays the noob and the imatown cards. Sigh.

[Anon]

Ort, response to 636 please.

[Anon]

Vote: Crymeariver.

Crosses finger.

[Anon]

Yey! GG all!

ABR, yeah, pretty sure the game didnt go as you expected.

Also, that bullet I got on day 2 was planned or desperate maneuver to make the game at least winnable for scum?

[Anon]

lol, thats stupid.

Im so glad oldguy was scum in this game. It would have been a pain to deal with.

Also I dont see what was so scummy with cmar before the last day where he went lurk mode and lol imatown. Going for charter was so incredibly protown.