Mini 856 - Star Control: Zeta Sextantis - Over

[Kmd4390]

/confirm

[Kmd4390]

Vote Papa Zito

Why didn't you vote until your second post?

Plum, that's kinda funny. I can't come up with another time I've been town in a game with you.

[Kmd4390]

So what happened to your random vote? You

forgot

out of excitement?

[Kmd4390]

Seems too careful to wait. Scum try to be careful.

[Kmd4390]

Yep. You're scum. I'm sure of it. Your defense of "OMG really?!? Me?!? Nooo" reinforces this.

[Kmd4390]

Don't you think it's a little early to start convincing players that you've found scum?

Pfffft. It's never too early. I usually do it in my first post. You're probably town though. Thanks for the reaction.

--------------------

Not sure what to make of Plum's reaction. Yes, the original attack was weak. But Plum has been around long enough to know when someone is looking for a reaction. Hmm.

Porkens obviously saw what I was doing and went with it. Probably town.

Zito, tell me what you, Plum, and Sigma did that was "obvious" and why scum wouldn't do it.

Excedrin seemed too quick to jump without having anything to add. Scum if Zito is town. Then again, he's new and Zito is probably scum, so I can see newbtown. Depends on Zito's alignment though.

Sigma, why "scum trying to look like the stereotypical aggressive pro-town player." rather than "the stereotypical aggressive pro-town player"? What is the most notable difference there?

Excedrin's post 39 is bad. Meta isn't going to catch scum on Page 2 very often.

Zito's post 40 is pretty sarcastic and scummy.

Rising strawmans Excedrin. He didn't set a trap. Just made a theory statement, even if it was a bad one. Starting to see Excedrintown and a Zito/Rising scum team.

Kast is obvtown. And I see he noticed the strawman.

Dry-Fit noticed that I was looking for reactions. Hard to get anything from him that way.

Jelly (Keelie), I disagree with the logic behind your Plum vote, but you are probably town.

Porkens, you are voting Zito but would vig me? Do you think I am distancing from Zito right now?

Plum, the sarcasm looks more like scum who is annoyed because they are being wagoned and aren't even playing that badly. I had this happen to myself recently. Jelly could tell you all about that game. .

Rising's post 56 is actually a good argument, but it wasn't what he said at first.

Wow, Rising's switch to Dry-fit is terrible.

Zito, Porkens is probably town and Excedrin is probably town too. Who do you find scummy?

Rosso, I'm not seeing anything scummy from Kast.

--------------

Unvote, Vote Rising

. Zito is still scummy, but Rising is worse.

[Kmd4390]

A little sarcasm for fun isn't scummy. Sarcasm that shows you are annoyed at the attacks against you

is

scummy. Town would just say it's a bad argument, shrug it off, and scumhunt. Again, who do you think is scum?

[Kmd4390]

So two of the three players voting you are your only two suspects? Ok.

[Kmd4390]

So you are comparing Porkens/Excedrin (opportunistic?) to yourself (sarcastic) to determine that they are scum? So basically they are scummier than you and must be scum?

[Kmd4390]

There's nothing scummy about the votes on you either. Porkens clearly wanted a reaction. Excedrin is obviously a newer player and newer players tend to be either VERY opportunistic or VERY cautious.

[Kmd4390]

Zito wasn't newbish in Boost 2.

Locke, guess I mis-spoke lol.

[Kmd4390]

Not since last time you announced (just about) sure scumreads on page 3 with fairly little to base your surety on and flipped scum I don't know what to make of you (and yes, when on page four you announced in no uncertain terms that you wanted Pom lynched . . . Frankly, I've learned the hard way not to trust myself to trust you.

It's my new early-game playstyle from either alignment. Like it?

And yeah, once I sorted it out Rising's reasoning for voting Dry-fit is pretty unimpressive. Hard to tell whether it's scummy or not, if, for example, Kmd would like to lay out what he sees there, I'm all ears.

Wait, what am I laying out?

@KMD-
I'm not sure why you read me as obv-town. You've called me that in at least two other games we've played (I was town in both and you were town in one and scum in the other). The game where you were town, I could understand why you called me obvtown. The game where you were scum, I didn't see why you as a townie would call me obvtown, but I accepted your support nonetheless. I'll accept it again here, but I'd like to hear your reasons.

*shrug*. Now that I think about it, you always

do

seem obvtown. Must be a playstyle thing...

Do you really think Kmd was being serious? Kmd himself has stated he was not.

I didn't say that. Yeah, I was after reactions. Doesn't mean I wasn't being serious.

And how could you possibly believe that the argument you propose would be a reasonable argument against

Excedrin?

It was

KMD

that started the bandwagon against Pipo and said that sarcasm was a scumtell (he's

still

saying it, btw). It would've been extremely scummy and completely nonsensical for a player to vote Excedrin and not KMD, if his argument was what you've just proposed.

I'm not saying sarcasm is a universal tell. Not even close. I'm saying that Zito's specific sarcastic response in THIS GAME and only THIS GAME is scummy. The rest of your post is filled with strawmans, exaggerations, and reaching.

Or you don't really think his sarcasm is scummy, you were just doing it to get a reaction.

Actually, I both thought it was a little scummy at first AND wanted a bit more of a reaction. When it began to escalate, I concluded that it was scummier.

Thanks. I'm very proud of it.

I'm dubious of KMD. I know that his confident "Zito's scum" stance was probably to get a rise out of Zito as much as anything but I think he's then used whatever he can get from Zito's reaction to make him look scummy. That's why I challenged him on the sarcasm comment; it just looked like point-scoring to make Zito look bad, dropping one of his earlier points against Zito in the process which indicates to me that he never really thought it was scummy in the first place. Now that I think about it, I'm going to go ahead and:

Vote: KMD

Do you stand by your statement that Zito's "Me?!? Nooo" style reaction is scummy?

His sarcastic response was scummy. Not as scummy as Rising though. Doing "whatever I can" to make Zito look scummy is a misrep. Hell, I'm not even voting the guy right now.

[Kmd4390]

Excedrin, I didn't mean you were scum because you are a newer player. I said that newer players are expected to be a bit opportunistic regardless. If Zito is scum, the opportunistic vote is actually a towntell on your part.

[Kmd4390]

So Star Control is a game. Ok. Cool.

(Not-so-subtle-hint about my experience with the theme)

[Kmd4390]

Let me know when we start playing mafia again.

[Kmd4390]

Rising, I trapped him by saying he is town?

[Kmd4390]

Plum, I think Rising realized he had a bad vote out and was looking for somewhere to put it and found Dry-fit.

[Kmd4390]

Rising, I trapped him by saying he is town?

No, that's not what Excedrin said. Read it again.

I said I think he is town because newbtown tend to be opportunistic like Excedrin was there. He took out of that the fact that I said he was a newb and thought I was trapping him expecting him to say "I'm not a newb". You agreed with him. I clarified that my read on him was town. And you still think I was trying to trap him. How?

[Kmd4390]

I wouldn't say react less. Just.. I don't think it bothers town as much as scum, so it doesn't distract them from scumhunting. TownZito is better than this. In Boost 2, he was actively scumhunting and recieved one of three boosts (mechanic where players vote to boost protown appearing players) for it. Here, he's managed to suspect two players on his wagon for their votes on him and that's it.

[Kmd4390]

Locke, no. Because he isn't scumhunting and I know he is capable of doing so.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, and Sigma? Walls being town vs town is NOT always true. See Boost 2 for an example of Scum vs Scum walls. ConsM/Mastin vs myself on Day 1.

[Kmd4390]

Well, my gut said town originally, but he made me realize I always think that about him. Consider it a neutral read for now I guess, as much as I hate those.

[Kmd4390]

Kast, you agree but see it as a town tell? Why?

Rising, ok, I guess that makes sense too (about Excedrin). Porkens only jumped on to get reactions.

[Kmd4390]

It's not about "crap-logic. It's about the strawmanning and stretching. It's not only a bad case, but a forced one. Scum is more likely to force cases than town.

[Kmd4390]

Sigma, I'm not so sure a lurker lynch is the best way to go.

Kast, I'm still not seeing how being stubborn is a town tell. Hell, I don't see how Rising has been stubborn in the first place.

[Kmd4390]

Kast, why does Rising have to play poorly to be scum?

Excedrin, search isn't disabled anymore.

Rising, "forced" means you don't seem to actually believe it, but are pushing it anyway. By admitting that it's reaching though, you make my point. No, admitting something doesn't make it less true/scummy. Just sayin'. Of the players you name as your likely next vote, Rosso is the only one I could see myself getting behind. Porkens is obvtown and Jelly doesn't seem like scum, although that read only comes from one post.

[Kmd4390]

Too many walls. Excedrin's meta on Zito should be even more reason to suspect Zito.

Rising, yeah, I want you to vote scum. You didn't really give good options as suspects.

[Kmd4390]

Kast, that's a lot of use of the words "neutral" and "slightly".

[Kmd4390]

It'll be on you're head when innocent blood is spilled.

Never liked this line, but newbies do tend to use it..

So we get the standard "I've been busy. Will come back" post and a Rosso vote for being angry. Jelly, why is anger a scumtell?

FoS: Plum

She has done something else I have done as scum as well....

Not everyone plays the same way.

------------------

Zito, so you're saying the vote on you added pressure and caused you to act scummy? Isn't pressure supposed to catch scum that way?

Being on the defensive makes it harder for me to be on the offensive, so, yeah.

Don't like this.

---------------

Rising, if you are saying I was wrong in being SURE of it, then you're right I guess because I didn't intend to be right. It was a reactionary vote. If you are saying I was wrong on his ACTUAL alignment, don't be so sure. He's actually one of my top suspects right now.

--------------

Porkens, I'd like to know basically what Zito asked. How much do you know about the ship?

-------------

Porkens, why Kast?

Zito, why Kast?

--------------

Guys, this is important

- deadline is in 4 days. If I'm not mistaken, no majority in BaM games at deadline is a no lynch. Rosso is a known hammerer, so I guess him not voting is fine as annoying as it is. Sigma, your Keelie vote is a lurker-pressure vote. Please place it on someone with at least two votes (Zito, Dry-fit, Kast). Locke, either push a case on me that will get 6 quickvotes (unlikely) or change your vote to Zito, Dry, or Kast. Dry, Sigma isn't going to be lynched. Change your vote. Jelly, same thing I said to Sigma. Rosso isn't going to be lynched. Choose on of Zito, Dry, and Kast.

Of the three, I don't see the case on Dry and the one on Kast hasn't even been explained yet. If it's role-related, I'm more than happy to switch to Kast, but for now:

Unvote, Vote Papa Zito

[Kmd4390]

I see nothing aside from the "shiny new bandwagon" comment. 4 days from deadline and you want a shiny new bandwagon with no further reasoning? Either there's more to it or it's scummy as hell.

[Kmd4390]

Just wanted to see if that was why you were voting or not. If Porkens comes in with info on Kast, I'm willing to follow.

[Kmd4390]

Porkens, do you know that the ship is a scum ship or are you assuming?

[Kmd4390]

I didn't get a fakeclaim in Pale Moon Risin', which Spy modded.

[Kmd4390]

Locke, vote someone. Who is scummier between Dry and Zito?

[Kmd4390]

It's true unless you want to no lynch. Anyway, yeah. I want to say take your time, but we've only got a few days. So yeah..

[Kmd4390]

Holding you to that. No vote means expect a shit storm from me tomorrow. Same for everyone else. Mostly Locke and Sigma since they've posted recently.

[Kmd4390]

Locke, the Wall-O-Texter you are referring to is probably Rising. But I like your vote, so Rising can wait until tomorrow.

More Zito votes please.

Rosso, would you hammer Zito over a no lynch?

[Kmd4390]

Locke, yes, there are a few people posting walls. What I meant is that Rising is the scummiest of those who are, not that he's the only one doing so.

Excedrin, why do you think I want to lynch Kast? And what false dillema did I set up? I looked at the vote count and told anyone not voting or voting alone to change their vote. It's common sense with a deadline coming up.

Zito, you are suspecting me for "starting this mess". All I did was attack you and suspect you based on your reaction. Then you waste your vote on Locke. Not sure what you are doing, but you are today's lynch unless you have a claim that is both believable and confirmable.

@KMD-
-What do you think of the case on Kast?
To be clear:
-You are most suspicious of Zito and would prefer his lynch.
-Your next suspect is Rising, but you do not feel that a Rising lynch will occur anytime soon.
-You are willing to vote for others to secure a lynch rather than a no lynch.

What exactly

is

the case on you?

-No, I'm most suspicious of Rising. Zito comes next though and I support his lynch.
-He's my top suspect. I'd continue pushing it, but I was the only one voting him and deadline was coming up, so doing so would be anti-town.
-Yes. A lynch is better than a no lynch.

----------------

Sigma deflecting to Locke (Zito's new target at the time) is noted.

---------------

Zito's claim isn't worth saving him for. He's a good lynch.

--------------

Excedrin, I dropped Kast from the list of possible lynches because he only had one vote. Obviously, if Porkens had role-related info on him (I didn't expect him to btw), I'd have been willing to run him up.

--------------

Porkens' switch to Lock is weird. I don't see why Zito's claim should keep him alive. Why do you think there is only one of each race?

--------------

LOL! Porkens switches from Lock to Keelie and Sigma/Zito, who were ALSO voting Locke, follow right over to Keelie. I'm seeing a connection between Zito and Sigma at least. Of course, if I'm right, Locke and Keelie are town due to this.

[Kmd4390]

Sigma, I hadn't said that more than once. That was my first post since he claimed. Anyway, what I don't like about Zito is his reaction to my pressure. I've never seen him react that way. And he waited until he was wagoned before he started scumhunting. When I originally asked him for suspects, he gave the names of the other two players who had voted him and said they were scummy for voting him. This is NOT TownZito.

Your Keelie case convinces me that she is a newbie. Congratulations.

-------------

Excedrin, there's a difference between "I think Kast is scum" and "If Porkens has role-related info on Kast, I'll vote him". I said the second, not the first.

Again, I was more worried about making sure the non-voters and the people voting alone weren't wasting there votes.

-------------

I want Zito votes, but I should be online at deadline if I absolutely have to switch.

[Kmd4390]

Deadline is coming up.

Unvote, Vote Keelie

. This is the

only

lynch that is going to happen. If anyone posts without voting Keelie (assuming they aren't voting her already), they are effectively saying they prefer no lynch.

[Kmd4390]

Excedrin, I see you online. Are you so strongly against a no lynch that you aren't going to hammer?

[Kmd4390]

edit: Against a Keelie lynch*

[Kmd4390]

Wait, deadline is tomorrow night, isn't it? I was thinking tonight.

Unvote, Vote Papa Zito

We still have time!

[Kmd4390]

Excedrin, yeah, forget that. I was thinking we were just seconds away from deadline and you avoided posting while Keelie was at L-1. With another day before deadline, your lack of a hammer isn't as scummy as I thought at the time.

Jelly, usernames in your quote tags would be nice.

[Kmd4390]

EBWOP: Aha, I just saw there's no time for that.

Zito or Keelie?

[Kmd4390]

Your post looks more like you'd prefer to lynch Zito up until "But if it's down to either Zito or Keelie, it's definitely gonna be Keelie." Distancing from your buddy?

[Kmd4390]

Zito, Jelly has said she knows nothing about the theme. Knowing her IRL, I'm near positive of this. Where do you think she got the claim from? Your argument goes against it being Mod-provided, so she'd have to either know something about the theme or have time to find it on wikipedia or something.

Rising, yeah, that's what it looks like to me.

[Kmd4390]

I don't think she made it up. She claimed without really being pushed, so if she's scum, I bet she has told us her safe claim, given to her by mod.

This still would go against Zito's argument that it can't be Mod-provided.

[Kmd4390]

Basically, Zito assumes that Keelie's claim CAN'T have come from the Mod. If he is going to argue that it's a Mod-provided fakeclaim, his argument now becomes invalid.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, she could have taken it from your list.

I don't see how she claimed survivor. Newbies tend to have the idea that you have to survive to win. If she was making sure not to quote the Mod, I can see how that could have slipped in there.

[Kmd4390]

I take it, Kmd, that you're going to excuse just about anything Keelie does because she's a newbie.

When all of the arguments against her apply to most newbies regardless of alignment, yeah. Show me something that is more likely to come from scum than town and maybe I'll buy your argument.

----------------

Yeah, claiming Survivor would be suicide.

---------------

I'll be at work at the time of the deadline, but will more than likely come online before that. So I'll hammer if needed, but would still prefer the Zito lynch.

[Kmd4390]

Not sure Jelly's gonna be around before deadline. I think she's working tonight. If anyone wants to say anything before I hammer, I'd do so in the next 4-5 hours.

[Kmd4390]

Vote Sigma

.

Unclaimed red ship pretty much means he has to be scum.

[Kmd4390]

Things I don't like about Sigma:
a) He's trying to make bussing (of Keelie) impossible
b) He's pushing that he or Porkens was targeted for the kill (maybe Sigma submitted no kill?)
c) Saying that he was in the same spot as Porkens seems too easy as soon as his ship is found.
d) He claims to have jettisoned not because he was on a scumship, but because he wanted to be picked up.
e) He's claiming rolecop, which isn't necessarily a town role, and was on a scumship. I think he's telling the truth about everything except his alignment. Zito, is there a role in the game that is likely to be scum and have the ability that Sigma is claiming?

-------------------

Kast, I don't blatantly defend my buddies. Remember how I called Hero scum all game in Farside's game?[/meta]

Being a certain name (Pkunk?) doesn't "confirm" you as town btw.

I learned some other stuff prev night as well, I'm not sure if I should reveal everything. Honestly, since I'm such an idiot, I'd rather have someone smarter let me know what to do here.

^There's the crumb though. Kast's insult ability does exist.
-------------------

I'd also support a Rosso lynch. Red ship and lurked when he had the chance to HAMMAH.

[Kmd4390]

Zito, I'm willing to consider you town after the Keelie push. You know the flavor very well, making you an asset. So, I'm going to ask you. Does Sigma's claim basically confirm him? I don't see why he was on a red ship if it does, but it seems like it might. Also, does it make sense for the role he claimed to be on a red ship?

------------------

Sigma,
a) (That should say

seem

impossible, by the way.) Either way, you're using it as a defense. I disagree about it being unlikely.
b) It's fair to wonder where it went, but the WIFOM that you may have submitted no kill is still there.
c) Nothing more to say on this one.
d) The fact that you were on a scum ship and didn't immediately decide to destroy it.
e) Ok, so namecop. I worded that wrong.

------------------

Kast, k.

[Kmd4390]

Rising (417), noted.

Sigma, assigning one person to do something makes them a likely NK target. I'd rather we just see if anyone decides to pick you up over night.

Kast, I thought Keelie was town, and was pretty sure of this because I assumed that knowing her IRL would make her easier for me to read. *Shrug*, she gets an ego boost for fooling me in her second game I guess.

[Kmd4390]

Oh quit rolefishing already

VERY strongly agree. Stop trying to find the doc, Kast.

False. You posted "I'm not a doc, I think we have no doc", and I posted, "Your post is anti-town and helps scum find townie power roles." So please stop helping them and don't encourage townies to engage in similar anti-town behavior.

I must have missed this because all I saw was Porkens speculating on where the kill went (I'd do this even as doc just to confuse scum) and you straight up said that Porkens isn't a doc. That's when he called you on fishing.

Not really. I am on a red ship too.

Unvote

.

Porkens and Sigma are confirmed red ships. Excedrin claims that Rosso is on a red ship. Now Dry-fit is claiming one. Throw in Jelly's and that's 5 red ships. I seriously doubt that we have 5 scum. I seriously doubt that someone would lie about being on a red ship. The only possible lie, which I don't find likely, is Excedrin claiming that Rosso is on a red ship. That would still leave 4 red ships, 3 of them confirmed. The thing about Sigma that didn't add up was the ship. According to Zito, Sigma's roleclaim was actually very strong.

So I guess now would be the time to start ignoring the red ships as being a scumtell. I want to say back to where I left off yesterday and vote Rising, but Kast's rolefishing is a little too much and I don't think Kast/Rising are scum together.

Hmm.

@all: Should we let Rosso get modkilled and lynch someone else? This opens up the possibility of a day 2 town victory if we have 2 scum remaining and they both die at the end of the day. That would be hilarious

Yeah, I wouldn't lynch someone who could be modkilled anyway.

@Dry-fit-
Does your race match your ship?

Yes.

Wait, what? Red ship that matches your race? How's that make sense as town?

Shit.

I guess

I am a miller then. Of course I'm not claiming scum.
I am Admiral ZEX, and am on Admiral ZEX's Vux Intruder.

You don't

know

that you are a miller, but your role is red? And for you to be a miller and red, you'd have to be a death miller, because all alliance flips green. Also interesting that viewing you in ISO, you don't mention Keelie at all. Not once.

Vote Dry-fit

[Kmd4390]

Wait, that's investigate, not flip. So you could actually be a miller. Does your Role PM specifically say that you are a miller?

Meh. I doubt scum would come out this easily.

Unvote, Vote Kast

[Kmd4390]

Kast's actions prev night confirm to me that he's Pkunk. There's something unrelated to Kast's ability that I haven't revealed that doubly confirms that he is Pkunk. If it's possible, I'd rather not reveal it at all.

Basically this is a vote on a confirmed Alliance.

Unvote

. Kast can't be scum unless you are, then.

@KMD-

(I'd do this even as doc just to confuse scum)

By posting this, you are admitting that Porkens post

IS

claiming that he is not doc. He may have been intending to confuse scum. Again, I asked him to STOP COMMENTING on it. Instead he keeps bringing it up and claiming there is nothing wrong.

No, I'm not admitting anything. I'm talking about how I'd personally play in the same situation. Porkens does things that I don't even understand sometimes, so I don't apply it to him. Also, when you attack him for something, of course he is going to comment.

It is possible to comment on a night kill or lack of night kill without claiming that you yourself are not responsible. Porken's CHOSE to do so which is EXTREMELY anti-town.

^Pointing things out like that are even more anti-town, especially if you truly believe it. If it weren't for Excedrin claiming to have confirmed you, I'd consider you obvscum for the way you are pushing this.

@Dry-fit/Zito/Red Ship-
-Is it plausible that Dry-fit's claim would be a townie?
-I agree that it is unlikely that Dry-Fit or RC don't have red ships. I think it is very probable that lynching a player out of the known red ship group is more likely to hit scum than picking a random player.
-Based on the timing of Dry-Fit's claim, I'd guess that he is claiming miller to forestall a suspected investigation tonight.
-I am surprised that Dry-Fit answered my question directly. Could be a slip or honesty.

I am fine with lynching either Dry-Fit or RC today.

Unvote, Vote: Dry-Fit

How many red ships do you think exist? Do you think they all belong to scum? Do you think scum would claim their own red ship the way Porkens and Dry-Fit have? If anything, Rosso and Sigma's ships are more likely to make them scum. Sigma's claim makes too much sense according to Zito and Rosso could be modkilled. We are better off lynching Rising or Locke I think. Of course the second Rosso posts though, I could support his lynch.

@KMD/Porkens-
-Is it good/bad/neutral to narrow down power townies?
-Is it good/bad/neutral to encourage other players to narrow down power townies?
-Does telling someone to stop talking about something mean that the person asking is trying to get the person being asked to talk about it?
-If a player is being extremely anti-town, should a townie ignore it?

-Depends on the situation. Before a massclaim, usually bad. But this wasn't happening until you called out Porkens. Luckily, he's been smart enough not to help scum out.
-Bad unless it's better for the player to claim.
-It might or might not be meant that way, but that's usually the way it works. By asking about it repeatedly, you are encouraging discussion on the issue. Hell, it may even be better for me to ignore these questions, but that would probably encourage you to push the issue even more.
-Depends on the situation.

----------------------

Porkens, I agree. If it weren't for Excedrin's info, I'd want to lynch Kast immediately.

Hmm. How about I do a list too (Scummiest on top of all lists, towniest at bottom):

At least one scum

Rosso
Locke
Rising

On da fence

Dry-Fit
Plum

Town

Excedrin
Porkens
Sigma
Zito
Kast
Kmd

Rosso is the most likely scum because of the way he disappeared when he had the chance to HAMMAH Jelly. Not being around today isn't helping him. Neither is the fact that he was found unwillingly on a red ship. Locke and Rising are Day 1 reads as well as their actions regarding the Jelly lynch.

Plum doesn't have her normal presence. I almost forget that she's in the game, which is not normal for her. The problem is, she played this way in another Spy-modded game and was town there. Dry-Fit is similar to Plum, but with a red ship, and apparently a miller.

Kast is where he is because he can't possibly be scum unless Excedrin is, so I refuse to lynch him before Excedrin. Sigma is where he is because Jelly's flip made Zito obvtown, and I am trusting Zito on Sigma. I have a town read on Porkens. Excedrin is also a town read, but weaker than Zito and Porkens.

So yeah, my willingness to lynch is that list as soon as Rosso posts. If he doesn't, put him between Zito and Kast on my list if you want to see the order I'd lynch in.

So, considering the list,

Vote Locke Lamora

[Kmd4390]

Kast, stop putting words in my mouth. I DO NOT think that Porkens has given any info about what role he may or may not have. I WILL NOT discuss this further.

[Kmd4390]

-I am basically both a vig and a roleblocker(which refutes Kast's belief that I just want to avoid an investigation.)
-Any player in space who I rescue instantly dies.
-My flavor is that I betrayed my race because of a fetish for humans.
-My role does not specifically say I am a miller, but it is hinted at in the flavor.
-I did not make any action last night.

Unvote, Vote Dry-Fit

[Kmd4390]

Kast, I voted Dry-Fit early and unvoted for more information. His fullclaim sucked, so I re-voted.

[Kmd4390]

I'll start massclaim because I'm not on the ship Excedrin says I am.

My role is Lololo, Utwig and my ship is Utwig Jugger. I have batteries that let me have any amount of energy. If anyone targets me, I absorb whatever energy they use on me. I absorbed 3 units last night. I didn't absorb anything on Night 1.

Flavor says that the Ur-Quan attacked my galaxy and some Ultron thing is lost. And according to the flavor, I have some Mask of Ultimate Destruction and Salvation (Not sure if this is an actual game item or just an expression, but it's there )

[Kmd4390]

Nope, no active abilities.

Doesn't sound like Excedrin's investigation on me took 3 units of energy (didn't think it did anyway), so either scum, Kast, or scumKast targeted me with something.

I don't think Zito is scum. I don't think Excedrin is scum. That leaves Rising and Kast. Problem is, Excedrin says he cleared Kast and Rising/Kast don't seem like a pair to me. Excedrin claimed that Rosso was on a red ship and was right. So that effectively clears Excedrin and Kast, leaving Zito. That would mean Zito bussed Keelie pretty heavily, which is unlikely, but possible. Hell, I've bussed hard before and Jelly is a new player.

I want to hear Kast's claim first, but I think the only place I can see myself voting today is Rising considering I just can't find a scenario where Kast is scum unless Excedrin is, so Zito is only process of elimination for me.

[Kmd4390]

Sorry for the thinking out loud post. They confuse people sometimes...

[Kmd4390]

Rising, it's the fact that he saw Rosso on a red ship and Rosso was town. It confirms his ability. I don't think that ability would benefit scum.

Kast, are you saying Excedrin should have been blocked when he got the Rosso result?

I don't nullify anything. Just absorb the energy.

Rising and I have a QT. Plum and I have a separate one. We could talk in those QTs any time we wished.

*Headscratch*

*Starts to wonder if you are confusing Keelie and Plum*

@KMD-
How can you not think Excedrin is not scum when he says he investigated you and that you are on a ship you claim to not be on?

Because someone else targeted me and isn't claiming to have done so. Zito saying he "switched" players sounds like a busdriver being untruthful about his target or something. Or maybe Excedrin is lying. In that case, you are no longer confirmed. So many possibilities... But if Excedrin is lying, who targeted me? 3 units of energy targeted me. Excedrin didn't have the energy to use all 3, or so he claims. Damn, I'm lost now.

it doesn't use energy.

What the hell did scum do that uses 3 units?!?

----------------

This game hurts my head. Excedrin says he targeted me, but used no energy. Scum must have done something powerful, so it's plausible that they have a busdrive ability or maybe a framer or something. Meh, Excedrin is probably still town unless Kast says he blocked him N1.

Pending Kast's answer, I'm leaning either a Rising/Zito pair or a mindfuck.

[Kmd4390]

Zito, clarify what you mean by "swapping".

Your recap also forgot my batteries that can hold any amount of energy.

And the absorption shield is listed as RA, so I assume that means racial ability.

[Kmd4390]

Rising and I have a QT. Plum and I have a separate one. We could talk in those QTs any time we wished.

*Headscratch*

*Starts to wonder if you are confusing Keelie and Plum*

Wat? No.

- D0 Rising appears on my ship.
- D1 we talk
- N1 I swap him and Plum
- D2 Plum and I talk
- N2 I swap Rising and Plum again
- D3 Rising and I talk

^Didn't understand my implication.

[Kmd4390]

What the hell did scum do that uses 3 units?!?

I suspect our Shofixti friend used his Glory Device.

What does this mean in English?

[Kmd4390]

I can target, say, you and Excedrin.

You will suddenly wake up on Excedrin's ship.
Excedrin will suddenly wake up on your ship.

And you would get a QT with who? Does this affect anyone's results on either Excedrin or myself?

1. Okay.
2. What's your ship's ability then? Or it has none?

All of my abilities are listed under the ship. The shield has RA before it.

[Kmd4390]

What the hell did scum do that uses 3 units?!?

I suspect our Shofixti friend used his Glory Device.

What does this mean in English?

The Shofixti ship is absolute crap.

BUT it has a self-destruct mechanism that, if it's close enough to even the largest ships, will take them out too.

And why are you thinking they used it? Shouldn't that have resulted in a dead scum?

[Kmd4390]

Oh, Zito was talking about Locke. K, my bad.

Excedrin, your ability you claim to have used on Locke failed, right? Why so quick to assume Kast's was successful?

Zito, so you think Locke targeted me in a suicide mass-kill ability? Why am I still alive?

[Kmd4390]

Kast, but he should have been blocked and unable to get a result on Rosso, correct?

[Kmd4390]

@KMD-
It seems odd that your claimed energy shield is an Active ability. I would guess from description that it is a Passive Ability.

I thought RA abilities were racial abilities.

[Kmd4390]

@KMD-
Not if both he and I are telling the truth.

He claims his ability is a Pilot Ability (not a Racial Ability). My power has no effect on Pilot Abilities, only Racial Abilities.

He should have been insulted and told nothing else.

Ok, so I'm wrong on how, but it still contradicts, correct?

Excedrin, your ability you claim to have used on Locke failed, right? Why so quick to assume Kast's was successful?

He didn't indicate anywhere that it wasn't successful.

And you assume it was even knowing that yours failed?

-----------------

Ok, so mine is both racial and active. You're right then, it does make more sense as passive. Weird.

[Kmd4390]

Since I knew that mine failed due to not having enough energy, I assumed that someone else's action explain would why I didn't have energy. If Kast's action failed because of lack of energy, it would be a pretty important detail for him to omit. So yea, I think it's reasonable to assume that it worked unless he stated that he knew it failed.

Ok, my bad. Must have missed that. Point conceded.

Ok, so mine is both racial and active. You're right then, it does make more sense as passive. Weird.

So you had to choose to activate it each night? Does it use any energy to activate?[/quote]

I don't have to do a thing. That's why I said it makes sense as passive.

Actually, I'm gonna ask the Mod why it's active.

@KMD-
You are correct. It is still a contradiction. To the best of my knowledge, Excedrin should not have been told anything. He claims to have been told flavor that he claims to have successfully used to guess that I am a role blocker. He should not have been told the flavor.

Shouldn't he have been obvscum yesterday then?

---------------

Ok, here's what I'm seeing.
Kast roleblocked Excedrin. Excedrin should have gotten no flavor.
Excedrin claimed flavor anyway.
A kill was missing on the same night.
Excedrin is scum if Kast is telling the truth.

Vote Excedrin

L-1.

[Kmd4390]

Alright, so, I thought that there was a chance that Kmd4390 was bussed with someone else or I was redirected or whatever. Since nobody has claimed that and I'm not lying about my results, I have to conclude that he's actually in an Ur-Quan Dread.

Vote: Kmd4390

If you're town, scum aren't going to tell us if they fucked with your result. Kast has info against you anyway though, so I doubt you're town.

I'm not sure how much I should read into the lack of hammer, since I haven't been at L-1 for very long. But, I'm not sure how Kast could be scum. If there's two, it would have to be Kmd4390 and Rising, unless Zito can swap people AND also kill. Sooooo signs point to one scum.

Rising would have hammered. He can only be scum with you.

[Kmd4390]

Rising, how have I been anti-town? Why is a Kast/Zito pair farfetched?

[Kmd4390]

On my claim: I absorb whatever energy comes at me. Doesn't mean I'm immune to anything. I find it suspicious that Excedrin immediately jumped to me being a kill target like that. Excedrin, did your kill on me fail N1?

Rising, yes, I was trying to start the game by pressuring Zito initially. I found his reaction to that legitimately scummy, so I suspected him.

With neither Rising or Zito hammering, Excedrin is scum unless Kast and myself are scum together. I know this to be false, so my vote isn't moving.

Still no idea where the 3 energy came from. It's unclaimed, so it's either scum or dead players (or both) who targeted me.

Excedrin, you make no sense in assuming that because no one claimed to have targeted me with energy, no one did. Scum won't tell us exactly what they did. Dead players can't tell us exactly what we did. But since you are confirmed scum from my PoV, I know you are lying about your result.

It doesn't look like the info about energy targeting me is going to come out, so I'm fine with a hammer.

[Kmd4390]

With neither Rising or Zito hammering,

Excedrin is scum

unless Kast and myself are scum together. I know this to be false, so my vote isn't moving.

...or Excedrin is scum with either you or Kast as a scumbuddy. Seriously: FOS Kmd for not thinking things through. I'm pretty sure by now that we have a Kmd/Excedrin pairing.

Which means the bolded. If he's being bussed, he's scum. Yeah, I thought about that as a possibility when I wrote that. Still confirms Excedrin as scum.

[Kmd4390]

Nothing was "botched". I posted what I had.

Yeah, I assume 2 more scum. 3 scum is usually the case in a mini and one is dead.

Again, you are ignoring the possibility that scum targeted me. And didn't bother to tell us! Bastards!

[Kmd4390]

Mod answered. It's active because it takes a unit of energy each night. I never sent anything in, so I didn't realize that. Guess he assumed I was using it or something lol.

Excedrin, ANYONE could be scum lying about their targets. Personally, I know you to be scum and I believe Rising or Zito is your buddy.

[Kmd4390]

I don't see Kast claiming role-info against his buddy in LYLO. It makes more sense for him to try pushing a mislynch before bussing. Get the win as soon as possible rather than risking everything.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, sorry 'bout that. I can see now that you drew the same conclusion I did earlier: It's either Kast/Kmd or it's Excedrin with any scumbuddy, including you two. (or just one remaining scum (but I completely disqualify that as a valid theory))

Since I don't believe in a Kast/Kmd pairing, Excedrin is my choice of a lynch for the day, but I'm not gonna hammer until I've sorted out some things with Papa.

^This. Excedrin is confirmed scum. (Unless you think it's Kmd/Kast, but from my PoV and Kast's, Excedrin is confirmed scum)

All of that, plus Zito/Rising as (semi-)confirmed town, makes me question his race, it seems possible that he has some ability that lets him emulate other races.

^Not letting you get away with calling your buddy confirmed.

Kmd4390's claimed role makes little sense
1. absorbs power, has no way to use power
2. claimed "R.A" but never sent a message to activate it
3. despite never activating it, he absorbed energy
4. uses power but he still hasn't fullclaimed (how much power did his ship start with?)
5. doesn't fit flavor of SC2 in game Jugger (ship is invincible when shield is on)

1. Actually, just heard from the Mod. It uses a unit each night which is why I started with 2 units. I now have the 3 I absorbed last night.
2. Yeah, it's active because it uses energy.
3. Apparently it takes effect anyway. *shrug*
4. 2 units.
5. I don't know the flavor, but I don't see anything about invincibility unless I'm misunderstanding the Mod's wording.

Kmd4390's play today has been to lurk and wait for you and Zito to make a mistake.

Um, no. I haven't posted at all on the site in the past 2-3 days because of work/class/being taxi service for this girl I know. I have managed to get a couple of hours of sleep in the past few days, but chose that over getting online. Exactly why this is one of the last

three

(four, I'm in one on SA too) mafia games I will ever play, but this isn't the place to get into that.

Unvote. Kast can't be scum unless you are, then.

This really surprised me given his Excedrin and Zito or Rising pair today.

Yeah, that frustrated me, but you claimed to have confirmed him, so if you were town, so was he.

@Excedrin-
-You must be scum. Showing that KMD is probably your scumbuddy doesn't change that you are scum and should be lynched.

Why would he claim role-based info against me if I was his scumbuddy? Hint: The answer isn't "OMG YOU'RE USING WIFOM!!"

@Excedrin-
There is the chance that you might realize you've lost the game and just surrender instead of dragging things out. It's worth asking and doesn't hurt. Probably not going to work, but also not useless.

How do you feel when you tell useless lies? You are going to be lynched. Is it a mark of honor for you as scum to go down insisting that you are a townie?

This post is full of WIN.

@Excedrin-
To be clear, my cards are on the table. I plan to lynch you, roleblock your buddy (KMD), then tomorrow we lynch him.

To the best of my knowledge, Rising and Zito are backing the same plan.

When you block me and a kill still goes through, can we lynch someone else?

I have a quick question for all of you. Do you find the following setup balanced?

- 3 scum
- 1 survivor/neutral
- 4 millers
- 4 townies

We have a neutral and 4 millers?

Papa Zito thinks that I'm a survivor. I hope it's just because of thematical reasons, and not that he thinks I haven't been helpful to town.

Well. That would change things. Would also explain why scum haven't quickhammered.

Unvote

(removed after further reading)so Zito can explain this.

You claimed Melnorme. They are not allied to anyone.

So, here's what I think we need to do.

vote: Kmd

1) So it's just the claim. I know I've trusted your flavor arguments so far, but can we afford it this late?
2) Why me over Excedrin?

Erm... so, both Kmd and Excedrin are at L-1? And Kast doesn't hammer?

Doesn't that mean we've won?

-Kast can't be scum with me.
-Kast can't be scum with Excedrin.
-If you assume 3 scum, yourself/Zito both town, Kmd/Excedrin are scum.

The following are possible:
-2 scum and a neutral (Rising?). Anyone can still be scum in this case.
-Kmd/Excedrin pair.

Ok,

Unvote

(removed after reasoning below)

Rising must be a neutral. If he's SK, it explains the reason for 4 kills last night a little more. But no kills on N1 is weird.

Ok.

-I know I'm town.
-Rising is a neutral. We should probably lynch scum before him.
-Zito is probably town. I don't see him bussing his only buddy Day 1 that hard, catching a neutral, and voting someone else if he's scum.
-Kast and Excedrin are the only two options.
-----Excedrin said he confirmed Kast.
-----Kast has info against Excedrin.
-----------Excedrin is the last scum and Rising is a neutral.
---------------------Let's lynch Excedrin today.
---------------------Let's lynch Rising tomorrow.
--------------------------------Game broken. Town wins.

Zito/Excedrin.

Right?

Ok, yeah, that's possible. Not seeing it though.

Ah, what the heck. Let's do this:

Vote: Kmd

Kill Excedrin tonight. You're SK, right?

Okay, so now that we are potentially in endgame, does anyone feel like surrendering/celebrating/sharing what's what?

Also, Zito should not share his plans for any swapping/bussing.

I was town. Our only chance is if one of Excedrin/Rising kills the other.

[Kmd4390]

Yea, I was lyncher to Kmd4390, gg everyone!

Kast, you're obvscum, you can drop the charade

What? Seriously?

*Has rant for Mod, but will wait*

[Kmd4390]

Nicely played by the way, Excedrin.

[Kmd4390]

Kast can't be scum with me.

Yes, he could. He could not be scum with Excedrin. Then he would've hammered you.

Oh, my bad. He could have. But he wasn't.

[Kmd4390]

Spy, it wasn't intentional. I didn't have the free time.