Mini 856 - Star Control: Zeta Sextantis - Over

[sigma]

No, I didn't admit that, I'm saying that if I were scum, I'd be jettisoning a ship that was pretty useful. Obviously, the ship was useless to me.

How do you think my ship got destroyed, Zito?

meh. whatever, torches are fast. do you still dis-believe my ships ability claim?

[sigma]

Eh, screw it. with the short deadline, and judging from the sample we have so far, I probably need to full-claim.

Claim: Arilou

Name is Bezabu. I have the passive ability 'Telepathy', which means that I know the alignment of anyone on a ship with me. I jettisoned so that I'd get picked up by someone and be able to confirm their alignment on D3.

[sigma]

EBWOP: I know the alignment

and race

of anyone on a ship with me.

[Excedrin]

sigma's claim is believable to me, I have no doubt that 2 instances of town guys on bad guy ships is possible, because Rosso Carne is on a red ship.

I learned some other stuff prev night as well, I'm not sure if I should reveal everything. Honestly, since I'm such an idiot, I'd rather have someone smarter let me know what to do here.

[Papa Zito]

Rosso Carne is on a red ship.

What the hell is going on in this game.

[Rising]

Excedrin: I would prefer it if you decided what to do for yourself, as long as you provide an explanation of how you reasoned.

sigma: I'm fine with your explanation. It makes perfect sense, and it is easily tested. Sorry that you had to claim to convince me.

unvote

vote: Rosso Carne

A completely unhelpful player, on an allegedly red ship.

[sigma]

sigma's claim is believable to me, I have no doubt that 2 instances of town guys on bad guy ships is possible, because Rosso Carne is on a red ship.

I learned some other stuff prev night as well, I'm not sure if I should reveal everything. Honestly, since I'm such an idiot, I'd rather have someone smarter let me know what to do here.

Not sure that we can help you too much with what to do. You've already outed one of your powers and hinted at more information, so it seems like you're already going to be a scum-target at this point. Usually more information is good for town, but if you think that the thing you learned is more useful to scum, then don't give it out.

Rosso needs to give us an explanation. Would really like to hear from those who haven't checked in yet.

[Papa Zito]

Name is Bezabu. I have the passive ability 'Telepathy', which means that I know the alignment of anyone on a ship with me. I jettisoned so that I'd get picked up by someone and be able to confirm their alignment on D3.

BTW, this claim is much more believable than the ship one.

[Kast]

@D2-
-From end of D1 voting, Plum and Zito are night confirmed in my eyes. Plum's vote was vital in making KRW a lynch candidate (I'd argue mine was the deciding one, but obviously I'm biased).
-Porken's vote could be a bus. Sigma's less likely but also possible.
-Excedrin and Rising placed late votes that don't reliably say anything about their affiliation.
-KMD's insistent defense of KRW is suspect. RC's complete lurking is also suspect.

@Sigma's Ship & Claim-
D1 post regarding Porkens' claim is consistent with his claim (indicating he is telling the truth or was already planning that false claim). Afterburners that are equivalent to every night commuting sounds plausible.

@Zito-
I agree with Sigma's assessment. He did not claim to be Thraddash; he claimed that IF he were scum, then he would not have thrown away a ship that makes him untargettable. This is still fallacious since if he is Thraddash, then it is likely that he is lying about his ship's ability.

@Fishing-
[quote=Sigma]I also think the scum tried to kill me or porkens and failed because the jettison took place before the kill action.[/quote]
-This is pure speculation. I dislike this without an explicit reminder that people should not comment in a way that could give away if they know more about this. Without that, it is entirely possible that this is a fishing attempt. To add to this, we don't know the method of the scum kill; we don't even know if they kill pilots, ships, or both.

[quote=Sigma]Let's use some logic, people. Why would I bus my scum-partner and then jettison my ship which allows me to be untargetable? What sequence of night actions would result in porkens and me getting a ship destroyed? I don't think you can come up with a plausible scenario where I'm scum.[/quote]
If you are scum, then you are probably lying about your ship's ability. If you are scum, then you had your claim ready from D1 and probably had the plan to destroy your ship (for whatever reason) already ready.

Porkens either jettisoned OR has some ability which destroys his ship. He would be suicidal to claim that he is going to jettison and then end up with his ship still alive today.

Your ship being destroyed could come from a number of common town powers; I don't think you need anyone to come up with plausible scenarios for you, and asking for them is fishing and I don't like it.

@Excedrin-
Townies should only attempt to pick up someone who they strongly believe is town. Also, rescuing a player is an active ability. Townies who already have active abilities should probably use those rather than pick up an unknown player.

-If both Porkens and Sigma are town, that makes a strong implication that scum have some ability or incentive for getting on other player's ships. This makes me much less willing to rescue anyone.

@Excedrin, All-
-I'm going to go ahead and reveal part of what you're referring to. Thanks for the breadcrumb and your discretion in not immediately revealing me. I prefer that you keep my ability a secret for now.
-I want RC to post and explain himself.

Vote: RC

-I have a night ability that let's me insult my target. My target is told who insulted them and the effect of the insult. I targeted Excedrin last night, and basically called him a really big idiot. I believe this reveals that I am Pkunk and confirms me as a townie.

[Papa Zito]

Argh. Recap:

Claims

- I've claimed Earthling, but not ship
- Sigma claimed Arilou Lalee'lay on a Thraddash Torch (destroyed)
- Porkens hasn't claimed race but was on a Hierarchy/Neutral ship (Mycon? - which means he was lying earlier about it being on my unsure list)
- Rosso Carne is unclaimed on a Hierarchy ship of some sort
- Kast is Pkunk on an unclaimed ship
- Excedrin is a really big idiot. I don't see how that proves what he is either/or. Apparently he can investigate?

Unclaimed

- Kmd4390 is unclaimed in race and ship
- Plum is unclaimed in race and ship
- Rising is unclaimed in race and ship
- Locke is unclaimed in race and ship
- Dry-fit is unclaimed in race and ship

[Kmd4390]

Things I don't like about Sigma:
a) He's trying to make bussing (of Keelie) impossible
b) He's pushing that he or Porkens was targeted for the kill (maybe Sigma submitted no kill?)
c) Saying that he was in the same spot as Porkens seems too easy as soon as his ship is found.
d) He claims to have jettisoned not because he was on a scumship, but because he wanted to be picked up.
e) He's claiming rolecop, which isn't necessarily a town role, and was on a scumship. I think he's telling the truth about everything except his alignment. Zito, is there a role in the game that is likely to be scum and have the ability that Sigma is claiming?

-------------------

Kast, I don't blatantly defend my buddies. Remember how I called Hero scum all game in Farside's game?[/meta]

Being a certain name (Pkunk?) doesn't "confirm" you as town btw.

I learned some other stuff prev night as well, I'm not sure if I should reveal everything. Honestly, since I'm such an idiot, I'd rather have someone smarter let me know what to do here.

^There's the crumb though. Kast's insult ability does exist.
-------------------

I'd also support a Rosso lynch. Red ship and lurked when he had the chance to HAMMAH.

[Papa Zito]

@Zito-
I agree with Sigma's assessment. He did not claim to be Thraddash; he claimed that IF he were scum, then he would not have thrown away a ship that makes him untargettable. This is still fallacious since if he is Thraddash, then it is likely that he is lying about his ship's ability.

I believe he's lying about the ship.

1. There's nothing about the Torch that makes it untargetable. Yehat Terminator? Sure. Utwig Jugger? Absolutely. Umgah Drone? Maybe. But not the Torch.
2. The Thraddash are stupid and aggressive. They regularly blow themselves back to pre-atomic days and have to rebuild again. The Torch's Afterburners were used to get them into battle faster, not to run away.
3. The Arilou are masters of Space and somewhat of Time. It doesn't make sense to me that one of them would start out stuck on a Hierarchy ship.

@Town - Look to yesterday plz before complaining about flavor.

Your ship being destroyed could come from a number of common town powers; I don't think you need anyone to come up with plausible scenarios for you, and asking for them is fishing and I don't like it.

Well said.

I have a night ability that let's me insult my target. My target is told who insulted them and the effect of the insult. I targeted Excedrin last night, and basically called him a really big idiot. I believe this reveals that I am Pkunk and confirms me as a townie.

The Pkunk insult their targets because, being such cosmically wonderful and happy creatures, they have to work themselves up to fight anyone. The in-game effect is that insults are how they recharge their ship's energy.

So this doesn't fit.

What purpose was there to targeting Excedrin?

[Papa Zito]

e) He's claiming rolecop, which isn't necessarily a town role, and was on a scumship. I think he's telling the truth about everything except his alignment. Zito, is there a role in the game that is likely to be scum and have the ability that Sigma is claiming?

Ummmmmmmmm

There's one, but it's a stretch.

The Ur-Quan race, before it was split into Kzer-Za and Kohr-Ah subspecies, were enslaved by a race called the Dynarri. The Dynarri were powerful psychics, and the Ur-Quan turned out to be especially susceptible. So a Dynarri could do this, it wouldn't have its own ship, and it would be especially evil (but not Hierarchy).

This is ancient history though. In SCII times, the Dynarri have been overthrown and reduced to translators for both Ur-Quan subspecies ("Talking Pets") for thousands of years. The only reason I bring this up is that at one point in the game a Talking Pet wakes up to full Dynarri-hood and enslaves the Umgah, so there's a

shred

of a possibility that a Dynarri is present.

[sigma]

Things I don't like about Sigma:
a) He's trying to make bussing (of Keelie) impossible
b) He's pushing that he or Porkens was targeted for the kill (maybe Sigma submitted no kill?)
c) Saying that he was in the same spot as Porkens seems too easy as soon as his ship is found.
d) He claims to have jettisoned not because he was on a scumship, but because he wanted to be picked up.
e) He's claiming rolecop, which isn't necessarily a town role, and was on a scumship. I think he's telling the truth about everything except his alignment. Zito, is there a role in the game that is likely to be scum and have the ability that Sigma is claiming?

a) I'm not saying it's impossible, just that it's unlikely. Don't misrep.
b) Just thinking out loud. I know I'm town, so I'm wondering where the night-kill went.
c) Fair enough -- in hindsight, probably should have claimed. I still think not announcing my jettison might have saved me from getting killed, though. Yes, this is speculative.
d) not sure why this makes you dislike me.
e) Um, no. my role is basically a regular cop with the ability to get the name of the target's race as well. Nothing about finding out someone's ability was mentioned in my PM.

-----

@Kast: I think KMD is town -- scum usually don't blatantly defend each other to the extent that he did.

I know for a fact that I jettisoned, so I wasn't fishing for anything from my perspective. Point taken otherwise -- I'll be more careful about warnings and such in the future.

-----

@Zito:

If I'm lying about the ship, that means I'm lying period, no?

Honestly, I agree with you about the flavor not making a great deal of sense. That's the hand I was dealt though, and I can't defend on that count otherwise. Do you have further questions about flavor for me?

[Papa Zito]

Honestly, I agree with you about the flavor not making a great deal of sense. That's the hand I was dealt though, and I can't defend on that count otherwise. Do you have further questions about flavor for me?

No, not questions. I'm just saying why I'm skeptical.

Actually wait, I have one. Who do you want to pick you up?

[Kast]

@Zito-
-Without revealing the effect of my ability, I don't see how you can at all reasonably claim that my ability does not fit.
-Revealing the purpose for targeting Excedrin will require revealing the effect of my ability. I see absolutely no reason to share that and have already expressed my position regarding that.

-My target receives mod confirmation of both flavor and function. The flavor alone is enough to confirm my race (and therefore my affiliation). From a mafia game mechanic PoV, it also suggests itself as a townie power since it reveals me to my target, inherently drawing attention.

This aside, I want to hear from Rosso Carne on whether he has a hierarchy ship, and if he does, then why. This is a short day; so he really needs to post quickly.

@KMD-
I'm not a confirmed name, I am a confirmed race (to Excedrin). The race is an alliance race. I think it is extremely unlikely to the point of dismissing that Spyrex would arbitrarily change the affiliation of a race to contradict the source game.

[Papa Zito]

@Zito-
-Without revealing the effect of my ability, I don't see how you can at all reasonably claim that my ability does not fit.

I guess I'll wait for the reveal then. As it stands it doesn't make a ton of sense.

-Revealing the purpose for targeting Excedrin will require revealing the effect of my ability. I see absolutely no reason to share that and have already expressed my position regarding that.

So the point of sharing this was to call yourself confirmed? If there was one scum left I'd agree but I'm guessing there's at least two left.

This aside, I want to hear from Rosso Carne on whether he has a hierarchy ship, and if he does, then why. This is a short day; so he really needs to post quickly.

Again, agreed. He should be eligible for a prod.

[Rising]

I am sort of suspicious of Kast's claimed ability. There are a race of pranksters in the Hierarchy whose name I don't remember right now, but they have a tradition of broadcasting messages and pretending to be someone else. I was pretty much just waiting for someone to use an ability like this and trying to convince us that it clears him.

[sigma]

Ideally, I'd say KMD. Someone who's been driving a lot of conversation and hasn't claimed anything yet -- it'd give town a lot of info.

That said, I'm not sure as to how we should go about picking up people. If we assign one person to pick-up duty, that person could be scum. Even if town, that person could be roleblocked. So maybe assign two or three people to pick-up duty? I'm really not sure what the best plan for town is. I think more discussion on this subject would be very valuable.

[sigma]

Rising makes an excellent point, IMO.

[Papa Zito]

I am sort of suspicious of Kast's claimed ability. There are a race of pranksters in the Hierarchy whose name I don't remember right now, but they have a tradition of broadcasting messages and pretending to be someone else. I was pretty much just waiting for someone to use an ability like this and trying to convince us that it clears him.

The Umgah. But they didn't have to aboard someone's ship to use their Caster.

[Kast]

@Kast: I think KMD is town -- scum usually don't blatantly defend each other to the extent that he did.

Wifom. Scum defend each other when they think it will help them and they think they can get away with it. In this game, KMD clearly expects that defending KRW will not or should not reflect badly on him. It is unclear whether he thought it would actually help.

@Mod-

Can you prod RC? (also Plum/LL/Dry-Fit/Porkens)

[Kmd4390]

Zito, I'm willing to consider you town after the Keelie push. You know the flavor very well, making you an asset. So, I'm going to ask you. Does Sigma's claim basically confirm him? I don't see why he was on a red ship if it does, but it seems like it might. Also, does it make sense for the role he claimed to be on a red ship?

------------------

Sigma,
a) (That should say

seem

impossible, by the way.) Either way, you're using it as a defense. I disagree about it being unlikely.
b) It's fair to wonder where it went, but the WIFOM that you may have submitted no kill is still there.
c) Nothing more to say on this one.
d) The fact that you were on a scum ship and didn't immediately decide to destroy it.
e) Ok, so namecop. I worded that wrong.

------------------

Kast, k.

[Kmd4390]

Rising (417), noted.

Sigma, assigning one person to do something makes them a likely NK target. I'd rather we just see if anyone decides to pick you up over night.

Kast, I thought Keelie was town, and was pretty sure of this because I assumed that knowing her IRL would make her easier for me to read. *Shrug*, she gets an ego boost for fooling me in her second game I guess.

[Papa Zito]

Zito, I'm willing to consider you town after the Keelie push. You know the flavor very well, making you an asset. So, I'm going to ask you. Does Sigma's claim basically confirm him? I don't see why he was on a red ship if it does, but it seems like it might. Also, does it make sense for the role he claimed to be on a red ship?

His roleclaim makes perfect sense to me. However I have no idea why an Arilou would be on a Thraddash ship. (The Arilou are capable of warping in and out of Truespace at will so it's hard to imagine they'd be stuck anywhere) The Thraddash ship's claimed power doesn't make much sense to me but I may be overthinking it.

@Mod:

Votecount plz.