The Dark Goma Mafia: Massacre of the Cloth (Game Over)

[SpyreX]

Ohh snap this game started. I have some stuff to talk about believe it or not woo!

Vote: Porkens

Now, see, this isn't a random vote. I want us to get a nice dispersment of votes so that when the first votecount comes up we can look and see if there is any modifications to the voting mechanics that we need to know about NOW versus later.

So, everyone needs a vote, but not a "true" wagon yet.

Which leads me to part deux:

This goes without saying, but I want to get this out now. With this being vanillaless lets not do the AWESOME wagon to claim to flip to a new wagon to claim to flip to a new wagon to claim. Barring miracles, if I'm going to vote for you BEFORE your claim I'm going to sure as hell hammer you after it.

That said, there's obviously some interesting roles in here. We're going to see a mix fo sho'.

Which leads to part three:

Hey, guys, I'm the Jester-Vigilante. Optimal play here is to lynch me D1 before I take my own life in the night and win before the rest of you. Trust me, I'm the kind of Jester that won't win when strung up, so vote away.

So, we've got:

1.) A jester that doesn't win when hung.
2.) A jester with an NK that wins when they NK themselves.
3.) A jester coming out claiming jester asking for the lynch.

So, "jester" must not mean "jester" or this is absolute nonsense. Now, I don't think he's scum persay (claiming jester in a game this size would be tantamount to suicide) but I can't buy jester either.

Personally, to take a page from the illustrious book of Porkens:

If I were vig, I'd shoot Kise.

[SpyreX]

Sorry I was in hard line analytical modus operandi and read that one at face value and went... WHAT?

Yea, that being a joke is interesting.

Color me skimmerguy, but I totally missed the reference to a pregame investigation?

[SpyreX]

Ohh the joys of pages of posts and not a whole lot of words.

I'm still hoping that everyone DOES vote so we can look at said mechanics.

@Jordan:

What "phase" are we in now and why would you be satisfied with it?

How do you reconcile the two quotes Sociopath put together?

[SpyreX]

I've got a wave of tired today so this is going to be short.

Unvote, Vote: Jordan

I'm not down with not answering questions when presented.

---

Kise, I'm apparently retarded this game: is any of the crazy you are saying true? Its time for the dancing to stop and the sense-making to begin. Because if you have some kinda madness that has an innocent on two players and one of them has claimed miller we're going to untie this knot because barring you being binary or naive we've found a scum, methinks.

---

Sajin:

I didn't even think about the modcount early on. Glad to see I'm right there is mechanics at work there. I would, further, like to see it all played out to make sure we have a simple doublevoter or if there isn't mysterious hijinks going on.

And, yea, I'm rolefishing vote-mechanic roles because those need to be pinned down NOW instead of later.

So, yea, want everyone voting so we can see whats going on.

---

I think thats it for now. The Ben-KMD dance is cute. My tired tinfoil hat says bus.

[SpyreX]

And, just to see if this is something more than silliness:

Pact: Tubby

[SpyreX]

Hahaha I missed that

Unvote, Vote: DeathNote

Although, why did you automatically say "third party" when all we're given is the town win condition (i.e. what makes you assume "not scum") from that.

Ooou the plot thickens.

[SpyreX]

This isn't a function of a simple mistake and I find your apologizing for it very offputting.

1.) His statement makes it very clear he didn't read the opening post.
2.) Further, due to the confirmation mechanics he was forced to read his PM
3.) From that AND from the opening post it is clear what the win condition is.

Thus

1.) His not knowing said win condition is testament to not having said win condition.

[SpyreX]

Ohh yea and

Thus part deux:

1.) If DeathNote flips an obvious high-power mafia PR (vig, etc) Sajin is getting lynched.

[SpyreX]

Ohh snap Plum is uninformed minority... SHE IS THE SK!

Stark is drinking moonbeams and his posts dont make the "sense". I would vig him too.

[SpyreX]

Risk / Reward.

Sajin would, realistically, only offer himself up like this to protect a role that needs protecting. Its why you see goons get bussed more often than not.

[SpyreX]

NORMALLY I'd mean anything but goon. This setup is a little...different.

[SpyreX]

Actually when you said "slip" I didn't see the issue.

His reply, however is bizarre, to say the least. Issues to be dealt with later.

[SpyreX]

Yes.

More importantly than the connection that Council = Town it was very, very clear that I = Council.

Which, when Town = Council makes that question all the more scumslip by Deathnote.

[SpyreX]

HAHAHA

Lets play a round of:

I'm illiterate, whats your excuses?

Unvote

Ok, that looked bad, but contextually good lord it makes sense and I'm calling semi-shenanigans.

You don't want to welcome an investigation?

That depends.... is council town?

So, good lord, it makes sense.

THAT SAID, DeathNotes responses, saying he's going to active lurk, self-vote AND absence of a claim after putting himself at L-1 are a giant :headdesk: and I may want to go through with this wagon just because.

However, we've got some wagoners with some splainin' to do.

That said, Dramonic is town.

[SpyreX]

Thanks Volkan for making me THINK about this and actually LOOK back at what happened.

[SpyreX]

Ohh I'm double not happy that you're AROUND and self voted instead of simply explaining this.

You may still get hung and I've already got working theories based on your flip mr.

[SpyreX]

I don't know you to be a person who doesn't think about things. You seem to be playing quite reckless this game so far, why is that?

Well, this is a two-parter. First off I was posting about Jordan being scum and since I blinked away for about 2 milliseconds a whole new page of posts showed up and I saw dramonic's post and looked at it and went "WELP, thar be scum (and dragons)"

Then, after Volkan asked me about the logic I opted to go waaay back and look at it contextually and then cried a little inside. Because, really, one or two people could make the mistake I did but that many? No.

I guarantee there is at least A scum (probably two) on that wagon that was forming. It was too perfect to not latch onto.

However, this belies the other issue this game is having:

Condense. Your. Posts.

There is no reason we've got this many posts this game. Its not a race, and if it were it's a race to failure. Make sure its relevant, and then post it.

Fluff posts in this setup with the way things are moving aren't simply fluff or even anti-town. They are scummy.

------

That said,

Unvote, Vote: Jordan

Before I got distracted by a sweet low hanging fruit I went here. I'm going back. He's paying enough attention to this game to, dare I say, be actively avoiding questions. Which I'm cool with nipping in the bud because I think there is an actual non-PM slip there.

[SpyreX]

GOD DAMNIT. Hypocrisy, thy name is SpyreX.

Unvote, Vote: Jordan

[SpyreX]

I was not voting for Jordan. Or I didn't bold it properly.

I was talking about DeathNote in 179 - his slip + your "third party / not scum" business.

I need to do an analysis on the game as a whole. I'll freely admit that I couldn't even name half the players at the moment and that isn't a good thing.

[SpyreX]

I'm not -sure- I'm wrong.

However, I am positive that the reasons for the lynch were not what I thought and thus the speed and style of the bandwagon bother me a LOT.

If he ends up lynched I wouldn't shed a tear based on reactions, but as I find Jordan scummier, would rather hit a miller AND am confused by Stark (off the top of my head - this is before I've actually got to really LOOK at everyone) I'm not gung-ho about it like when I thought there was a power slip.

[SpyreX]

Well, huh.

As it sits I will gladly hop to Stark if I can't get a Jordan lynch (hint: nothing nowhere on this page even pretends to approach an answer to the questions posed).

This is not directed only at Sajin, but at other players that has suggested a vig kill on me. It's no good to direct the town power roles. First, it seems as if you are role-fishing, and second, it'd seem that you are using them for your own personal intentions. And that, in general is no good

So, what do you propose:

1.) Wasting cop investigations on you?
2.) Wasting a lynch on you if you are telling the truth?
3.) Letting a miller claim live till endgame under the hopes this isn't a gambit?

I'll let you decide which way you want to go before I get all over you for the "omg, rolefishing" when, ultimately, no one is even pretending to.

[SpyreX]

Spy, didn't Yaw's game teach you anything about speed of wagons? I got run up pretty quickly as scum.

Speed is one factor. Rationale is another. I'm all for power wagons, hell, even power wagons based on a slip. But not wagons based on something that didn't happen.

I really don't propose much. I just leave that to your own opinions. Tell me, would have been better if I had keep my role for myself? I'm just saying, if any investigative role wants to test out their alignment, then investigate me. If not, then just don't. Then, if you want to lynch me for that, then go ahead, that'll confirm me (though it will be useless). Why do you cling so much to that claim? Would you think I'm scum if I wouldn't have claimed?

I'm not trying to pull a gamebit, I say all of you that. What else do you want me to say? I already paraphrased my role pm. So, what else?

If a cop wanted to test their alignment (which one doesn't make a perfect litmus test but) they would be far better off investigating

themselves

. You could be a mafia PGO for all we know.

As for "clinging to the claim" - you've claimed a classic role that has to go before lylo (this is something generally I'd agree with, after recent events would do so even more).

But, that aside, what have you done aside from the claim? Really?

^^ These still read more like tripped-up or otherwise screwed scum than Town. Logic break that I'm struggling to see or not - oh, I think I get it. Um, okay, maybe. SpyreX, vollkan, DN, if you could just assume I'm slow and help fill in the blanks for SpyreX's logic breakthrough to confirm that I'm seeing, maybe, what they're seeing, 'twould be helpful.

You are correct and he isn't exonerated. Just a bit more backburner for the moment - they confuse the hell out of me and

could

be town throwing in the towel but... yea.

As for the wagon, and my issues. DN did said he didn't know the Council was town, BUT the implication contextually is that he IS Council:

Kise: You don't want to welcome an investigation?
DN: That depends... is council (

my affiliation

) town?

Now, does that make this statement not weird generally? No.

All it does is means the main rationale for the wagon is bunk and I could see one, two, three people making that mistake but 8?

Lol

Note to everyone: don't ask me questions with restrictions, I wont listen.

This is not helpful. There's reasons to ask a question like that and sweeping doesn't make it go away.

---

More catching up later.

[SpyreX]

Actually, lets back up a step.

Volkan didn't give "an excuse" or even "explain" something when I re-reviewed it.

He asked a question about the wagon that made ME go back and review it and actually look at the context.

Which, lead to this.

Not all speedwagons are on town, but that has nothing to do with the fact the firmament of this case is moonbeams.

[SpyreX]

The fact that the "scumslip" (not knowing the position of the Council) when viewed contextually in fact implies the exact opposite (that DN has the Council in his PM).

When just his statement is reviewed "Is Council Town?" it makes sense to push the hell out of him for it.

When looked at as a function of the question "Would investigating you be a waste?" it implies he at least is faking council well.

Does this mean I think DN is town?

No. I still find him suspicious for his reactions AND the behavior in general.

Does this mean that said wagon is suspect?

Yes. Hoss yes. Hence my jumping off and calling it out.

[SpyreX]

Probably Jordan.

Be a doll and vote please.

Not Voting: DrippingGoofball, alvins95, Rosso Carne, LlamaFluff, Snow_Bunny, Kise

I want this whole list voting at once pleaseee

[SpyreX]

Stark absolutely makes no sense to me. I will not be heartbroken if thats the way we go.

As it sits, I'm still pro-Jordan at the mo'.

[SpyreX]

Not Voting: DrippingGoofball, alvins95, Rosso Carne, LlamaFluff, Snow_Bunny, Kise

You know whats awesome? Since I posted that:

Kise, Llama, DGB AND Alvinz all post.

Ohh wait, that's the antithesis of awesome.

Spyrex- Can you summarize your case on Jordan?

There's the logic bombs around the RVS that just don't make sense (look at ISO 0-7).

Combined with this the fact that the RVS business is, well, all he's talked about.

Then there is the FoS on Socio for the legitimate question about the above (without answer).

Then, there is again the no answering about the RVS logical issues when I asked.

To top it off, after asking again.. nothing.

Which, then culminates in a piggy-backed vote on Stark.

[SpyreX]

I know Kise. I want them all up - just call it a small science experiment.

[SpyreX]

These last few pages are not very awesome.

Ben / Rosso - in what world is your exchange useful? Further, why does it both need a giant quote pyramid AND need to be spread over a dozen posts?

Stark - what in the blue hell does 531 have to do with anything? There's one course I see that "makes sense" but if thats the case then nothing "makes sense" soo...

[SpyreX]

....

Claim. Now.

That much of a claim is absolutely unhelpful.

[SpyreX]

How does that make you "dead before the end of the Day"? Do you HAVE to use it today?

[SpyreX]

If it doesn't end the day it's quite nice overall.

[SpyreX]

Then I say go for it. Take some opinions but I'm not down with the "everybody lets get OUR feelings in and blah blah"

Kill them. Set yourself free.

Release yourself in the darkness.

[SpyreX]

Twists within twists.

Why in the blue blazes would you need to live at least one night?

[SpyreX]

Who, me? Or DN?

DN's post just doesn't add up. I'm not getting the "at least one night" business at all.

[SpyreX]

SpyreX, assuming your current vote, Jordan, goes through with his suicidal actions, who would you most like to see him take down and why?

I'm not sure if you're trying to set me up there. (Personally, I dont think he's going to be able to do it but we'll see).

If I was bombin' up ins... hmm.

I'd probably play it the safest and blow up the miller, just to be sure.

However, if I was feeling like a cool kid it'd be a tossup between: Stark, DN, Benmage and Rosso at the moment. Maaaybe Kise but probably not.

I'd probably end up with either Stark or Snow.

[SpyreX]

VT = vanilla townie. Which makes even less sense then saying needing at least one night when, as far as I know, only the most bizarre would need ONE night.

Yea. Scratch what I said moments ago. I'd blow the hell out of DN.

[SpyreX]

Hmm... If we get

useful

softclaims from all of Jordan's potential targets, I suggest bombing Snow Bunny (no hard feelings).

Que?

No.

[SpyreX]

....so this is KMDGate round two?

My lord.

@Kise: I get what you were saying (and am confused how Plum thought you were sarcastic).

I just think, like I said way back, this setup lends itself too well to claim / shift / claim / shift which pushes the information even more into being useful for scum.

Claim / kill or Claim / SHIFTKILL is my motif this time.

[SpyreX]

Ask SpyreX, he's the one that been hunting for it.

And if I'm right, Rosso Carne is a little suspect for not claiming it.

I did what now?

I find the RC/Ben discussion to be unhelpful and clogging in a game that needs no help on those fronts.

[SpyreX]

OHHHHH. I thought you were saying I was fishing RC specifically instead of my much larger net.

Ok then, and yes.

[SpyreX]

Started a reread because I'm getting that sinking feeling that we've missed something.

Has this exchange been addressed?

Check out ma' avy now, KMD!

FoS: Milkshake for coming up guilty during my pre-game investigation.

Hey, guys, I'm the Jester-Vigilante. Optimal play here is to lynch me D1 before I take my own life in the night and win before the rest of you. Trust me, I'm the kind of Jester that won't win when strung up, so vote away.

I would also like to know: what about the investigation claim, Kise?

And, if it is legit, did you direct it yourself?

If so, extreme coincidence

.

Much like the Anti-DeathNote issue - I can't make these two things add up.

Milk approaches it like it is valid. Then does a slippery bit of fishing. Then says that its a coincidence AFTER asking if this is legit?

I don't understand. Nor do I like.

Considering I'm batting a thousand this game in logical mistakes though before this party gets started I want to make sure I'm not missing something obvious.

For now though,

Unvote, Vote: Milkshake

[SpyreX]

I guess nevermind some on milkshake. Rereading EVERYTHING made the claim resurface she made, which still makes me itchy but.

Its time for the first round of this game.

1.) tubby216 - 18 posts
2.) Vaya - 12 posts
3.) Battle Mage - 39 posts
5.) cicero - (getting replaced) - 5 posts
6.) VP Baltar - 38 posts
7.) SpyreX - 41 posts
8.) Cass - 6 posts
9.) milkshake - 13 posts
10.) Snow_Bunny - 19 posts
11.) dramonic - 59 posts
12.) Benmage - 61 posts
13.) SocioPath - 32 posts
15.) DrippingGoofball - 19 posts
16.) Sajin - 33 posts
17.) LlamaFluff Porkens - 36 total (34 LF)
18.) alvins95 -

1 post

19.) Kmd4390 - 44 posts
20.) Plum - 28 posts
21.) Kise - 21 posts
22.) vollkan - 9 posts
23.) Rosso Carne - 13 posts
24.) stark - 28 posts
25.) Kublai Khan - 15 posts
26.) populartajo - 24 posts
27.) KaleiÐoscøpe - 8 posts

CKD - 19 posts.

If you are less posts than CKD you are doing it wrong.

Alvin having contributed less than a paragraph this entire game is not acceptable. (Hint: KMD's 771 uses more words than alvin has this whole game to explain him being scummy).

However, that ALSO is not a lynch. That is a prod and replacement.

I was expecting / hoping at this point in being able to look and pick out one or two low-end contributors to bust scum but

there is simply too many there

. 11 of the living are at or below mod-post.

[SpyreX]

I've got a much different issue with Dram that I want to look at that, again, I dont remember if its been addressed: why did he assume DN was 3rd party and not scum?

[SpyreX]

Q1) What is your opinion on the Benmage and Kmd interaction? You earlier called a bus, but haven't pushed it since.

I got a little distracted by the other squirrels jumping around. The interaction around that DOES still seem forced.

So you're looking for quantity over quality? I'll seriously argue that my 15 posts have had more content than benmage's 61 posts. (not an intended slight to benmage, just pointing out that quantity arguments are bunk).

Yes, considering I've been vehemently against the spam I am totally looking for quantity over quality.

Or, there should be a crossroad of Quality Street and Quantity Avenue that is a much better place to exist. BOTH sets of outliers bother me, but less then a mod that isn't spamposting is a pretty good outlier for the Quantity axis.

Have you said more than Ben? Probably.

If you had more posts would I have more of a read on you than "Wants Snowbunny lynched, real bad"? Definitely.

----

Unvote, Vote: KMD

I'll parse this in more detail later but VigGate still gives me the itch. The defense of stark (while the arguments aren't the greatest) strikes me as confidence in his flip. But neither of those get me as much as pushing a power-lurker lynch based on 2 posts and saying that not only is that scummier than active players BUT a replacement would STILL BE SCUMMY based on the ohh... 10 words posted.

Not buying it.

[SpyreX]

Town:

Sajin

VP Baltar
milkshake
Kmd4390

Bolded for whaaaaa? I'm pretty sure you'd been on Sajin as scum due to META(TM PENDING).

VidgeGate- I'm a Gambit player. You know this. Should know it from our first game together, even if that one was retarded, but hey, I was a newbie.

Defense of Stark- Show me a case against him and I may support it. So far, there isn't one. Oh, and I always look confident in flips. Well, usually. But yeah. I usually have 1-2 very strong town reads and 1-2 very strong scum reads. I wouldn't call Stark either of those, but yeah.

pushing power-lurker lynch- I'm voting alvinz because it's a better lynch than Stark or Snow. If there was a better wagon, or people would support the Ben lynch, I'd be all for that.

1.) I'm fine with gambitsish. However, you pulled your punches afterwards and kind of let it slide losing aggression and moving towards a defensive bit, which leads to:

2.) Stark not being a solid town read is good. Considering DN and the "slip" I also don't give the slip much credence. However, I'm not getting the absence of questioning the erratic responses and overall unhelpfulness... which leads us to:

3.) This is my beef. I'm down with killing lurkers. Believe you me. However, when one consists of

two posts

I am not down with building a case on it aside from what it is and doubly not down with saying that the replacement inherits the sins of the father (with said two posts) and triply not down with saying that it is a better wagon than Stark, Ben, or Snow.

Something is amiss in KMD town, and I dont like it.

[SpyreX]

... I didn't realize that we're looking at a dozen posts of actual words in between Alvinz posts here.

That changes it some, but not a lot.

[SpyreX]

Prod: Alvin

Catching up is hard too doo

@Kise:

Yea stretching to make a point: there are a myriad of things in this vanilless setup that could, in fact, help the scum by having one draw PR's. I picked the silliest one I could think of - although Watcher would be pretty boss.

[SpyreX]

Woosh.

Yea, I'm down with the KMD train. Although I'm baffled by Ben's last post too.

Although:

Lurkers ruin games. Period.

True that.

[SpyreX]

Sajin makes

Volkan makes <3, as per usual.

[SpyreX]

Gone for a bit, will be up to speed soon. Questions / statments though:

1.) Alvinz has picked up the prod and not performed?
2.) "scummy" business aside (which to a degree I can agree with KK about), barring some kind of miracle I'm not down with the miller today. Its just too easy, either way. I dont like it.
3.) I'm really tired and I thought I had more questions but I can't think of them. We've got a weird disparity of activity that irks me far too much.

[SpyreX]

Well THIS thread got busy last night.

One thing, fo sho - don't put credence in the "er" theory: my role has no er on it. We've had a coincidence that better not turn into a lynch rationale.

That said: KMD is a scum rolecop. I mean seriously now.

Get er' done.

[SpyreX]

Yea, I offered that up ahead of time because I am "afraid" to fake-claim when the criteria that was being "used" was already made pretty clear.

I've offered up the "not all names end in er". No one else feed this hunting right thar'.

Lets get this party started, in heeeere.

[SpyreX]

Yes that is totally a afterall. Lets go back and look at this:

You claim musician. People call poppycock. Then the "er" theory gets brought up (which, at surface, is a decent one). You start moving towards lynch.

THEN CHOOSE YOUR ADVENTURE:

1.) I, as scum, opt to jump in and deny this theory because it is true - instead of using the information gathered to make up a real fake claim that makes sense.
2.) I, as town, opt to stop this line of apparently good reasoning

because it is wrong.

That aside:

If Sajin was your lynch target, why in the hell would you name him town? By nature wouldn't that make him harder to justify lynching? Hell, if you knew the players name and won when they were dead in a power role setup just go "BAM I AM DAYCOP LYNCH SAJIN LYNCH ME TOMORROW IF LYING K THX"

And the offer of confirmable information that doesn't help with alignment is truly the .

This done be a rolecop. He done need be hung.

[SpyreX]

Ok, if I am mafia, what is the Rodent Tamer? And what about Sajin? How does any of it translate to my claim? I'd like VP or Spy to answer this because I'm not seeing it and they seem to see me as mafia.

Its pure moonbeams.

Much like the claim and everything else.

Now, I COULD give you that perhaps your name is "Rats" and you scurry around and see what people are (that whole every lie needs a bit of truth bit).

Everything else I think is a total fabrication.

And I'm not getting why your role would say anything about Sajin if Sajin wasn't your lynch target. Further, I still don't get why if you are third party you wouldn't have just laid out said cop gambit and pushed the win - because guaranteed you would have got it in a large setup.

[SpyreX]

Lets get this hammer out already, sheesh.

I'd eat a million hats if due to rolename there was anything that was useful for town. I'm pretty sold on there not being "Happy Bunny Good Town Fisherman(er)"

Rolecop is rolecop is scum is scum is kmd.

And If you had said "I'm a daycop, I bagged sajin" in the powerrole setup as your "lyncher" role a real cop wouldn't have came out AND there would have been no town downside to following it - in a setup where day roles could make sense there's no reason not to follow it.

[SpyreX]

Did we do it?

Are we set free?

Can I see the light?

[SpyreX]

....

What in the HELL?

I don't even know where to begin.

Well, one thing: @SB - anything interesting happen to YOU last night?

[SpyreX]

Not Voting: Rosso Carne, Snow_Bunny, Kise, milkshake, vollkan,

SpyreX

, VP Baltar, Benmage, dramonic, SocioPath, Sajin, KaleiÐoscøpe, Vaya, Papa Zito, Battle Mage, DrippingGoofball, Plum, tubby216, chamber, SerialClergyman, LlamaFluff, stark

I'm not dead, dont you worry about that none.

Confused at what the hell happened and if someone would love to explain that'd be pro.

[SpyreX]

Welp, lets see if I'm a stump or what's going on:

Vote: Stark

@SB:

We'll see what happens with my vote. NEEDLESS to say I'm assuming I'm the dead walking at this point so I'll explain everything that happened before night

[SpyreX]

Haha, I started doing a vote analysis and then realized I'd be looking at fifty pages of information and I'm already dead and wooosshhh.

I'll do the quick and dirty version:

There is at LEAST 1 scum, if not two in: alvin, crywolf, llama, stark. (My money is on it NOT being llama).

The "not voters" this time actually have worked themselves out some - although I will say I am a bit more suspicious of SB because of KK being scum in the ulltraa bus (and my being dead but I'll get to that later).

On the wagon as a combination of placement and play I'd gladly kill me a: Benmage, SocioPath, Scope, Tubby.

Actually, total truth be told aside from: Llama, Volkan, Plum AND marginally Zito & VP I'd kill any of you if I could.

[SpyreX]

Barring madness what I did sure as hell shouldn't have killed me.

That's why I asked SB what happened last night.

[SpyreX]

@Sajin:

Your question doesn't make sense unless its a different way of saying "Did you kill yourself?" Which, of course, the answer is no. Something happened.

And SB playing coy makes me think something is amiss with what I tried to do to them.

So, lets lay this out all properlike:

I am an Alchemist. Each night I can give someone one of my myriad of potions (and there's alot of them). Of course they're all nice and colored... but not labeled. So I have no idea what my potions can do (but based on colors I can take somewhat of a guess).

Last night I tried to give my BLACK potion to SB. Yea, thats right, I tried to (I hoped) kill the miller.

Yet, somehow I killed myself. Which means either SB did some kinda reflexive business or something truly fishy is going on.

Unvote, Vote: Snow_Bunny

I made it pretty clear I did something to SB and the coy act doesn't do any good.

[SpyreX]

@BM:

I threw a black potion at SB and got flavor of killing myself.

Riddle me how that doesn't implicate SB.

[SpyreX]

I'm assuming I'm dead come night (no reason, just intuition at the fact I'm in essence a ghost).

And BM's new "maybe what you're piecing together with the logic you have versus adding in wild additional variables" doesn't make me very happy.

Considering KK was all over the miller claim being fake and the whole "cops check here kthx" I could see some kind of elaborate bus. Double considering that BM is defending a miller makes even less sense.

So, what are you suggesting? I'm scum that somehow ghosted myself and am using it to try and kill a miller? Or..?

I want SB dead. If SB is scum I want BM dead.

[SpyreX]

Ok, lets go back into the way, way, WAY back machine to day 1:

One thing, fo sho - don't put credence in the "er" theory:

my role has no er on it.

We've had a coincidence that better not turn into a lynch rationale.

So, yea, I don't get the SHOCK AND AWE at my claiming when, get this, its not even because there's a pigs chance to get to the moon of me getting lynched but, in fact, to illustrate what I did to SB and how I think it relates to my current condition.

So, follow me:

I, the Alchemist, used my BLACK potion (of my myriad of potions that I don't know what they do) on SB the claimed miller ps cops come here. I, through ?, am dead looking over my body but still alive.

Now, see with the pieces of information I have about the situation assume that my mysterious BLACK potion had something to do with that since SB has opted to not say what happened. So, lets look at what could have happened:

1.) My potion was reflexed back to me.
2.) Independent of my potion, I am now ghost-riding this game for an unknown amount of time because I targeted SB (hint, see cops come here).
3.) In a realm of sheer coincidence, my potion went through, nothing happened to SB that she said and someone else targeted me with something that killed me in such a manner that I appear to have killed myself and yet am still alive (and, of course this would be scum because no one is mentioning DOING this).

Scenarios 1 AND 2 point to SB not being on the level. 3 requires some seerrrrious variables I don't have access to.

Now, lets look at the various responses:

Sajin: How do you know you're not dead? (This one still confuses me)
BM: I agree with Sajin (???)
BM: I dont see how any of this implicates SB because everyone could have played a part.
BM: Maybe ??? happened and that had nothing to do with it.

Your claim is believable but the conclusions aren't.

Milkshake: Ohhh I could go for SB based on that.
Milkshake: I'm pretty happy with your post.
BM: Ghost = scum. My attitude (???) = scum.
Milkshake: OMG Claim = bad. See above.
SC: Jumpin on choo choo
DGB: <3
Zito: Flavor (Blah) + Sense (Woo) = ?
VP: <3
------

Now, this isn't OMG meta and scream WIFOM all you want but really do you think if I actually WAS scum AND considering I said the er business didn't work because of some kind of *gasp* information I may have due to my own role that I would be stupid enough to actually CLAIM a role that didn't end in er?

I mean seriously. This game.

[SpyreX]

Spy, I have a role that interracts with people who have active roles and targetted you last night. IF you have an active role, my result doesn't make sense.

Well, good lord, share it then. Especially if your "interaction" would clear this debacle up.

And when literally all you've done is jump on this awesome wagon welp yea.

----

Post 1281 by BM is the classic sigh - ohh, even if all my conjecture is wrong not like we're losing something important.

----

I am The Alchemist. I make potions but don't know what I make but yet people still want them. There's a war on but I don't care - I have a new set of potions and want to find out what they do.

----

I just thought of something. Spyrex, could your survival be the result of you being targetted by a player whose power allows you to survive an attempt on your life?

If it is I have no idea. I've given the totality of what I did.

----

This game, I swear.

[SpyreX]

Just as a favor to me I'd love the voters on me to succinctly put WHY they are because I'm not seeing anything that even pretends to be a case.

Get it up, get it detailed, lynch me then pick apart this wagon. Set me free DGB, set me free

[SpyreX]

Not third party - just not involved with the politics.

And yes, like I've said every time I don't know what they do.

[SpyreX]

I am voting SnowBunny? I think I am at least.

The wave of votes + football = sapped energy.

Maybe if SC & SB opt to share their information instead of screaming SECRET INFORMATIONS to the sky something can happen.

[SpyreX]

My ability says nothing SPECIFIC about being passive or active. However, the mechanics of it are definitely active.

Now, I have no strong idea why you would 1.) lie about this or 2.) didn't get it. My conjecture would be that my ability is related to my potions and not inherent in me?

[SpyreX]

...

Mine does not have that line specifically. However, it does reference the word Special.

[SpyreX]

Look, at this point I don't even care if I am the lynch. There could be worse ones.

HOWEVER, I want people to be real clear with why they are on it.

SC, after claiming to explain AND the lack of long-term gain as scum pushing this lynch is town. As, apparently, I am Special and not Active (what the hell) that would explain that part. I'd all but clear him.

SB has eluded more than once to my interaction leading to them gaining an ability. Yet hasn't said what it is. And is a miller. That was asking for PR hits last night. This, imo, is a better lynch but you know.

Both benmage and BM are bothering me for their rationale(s) (or in ben's case absence thereof) for joining this. These, again, wouldn't be bad lynches.

Zito makes sense as stubborn town holding onto a theory that, of course, is not right but the idea of it smells town.

Sajin came in with some bizarre questions and then vanished again. This is worrisome but considering some of the others jumpin around I have a hard time seeing a full committal on this from scum.

IF I had a bullet it would be going in SB or Ben at the moment.

[SpyreX]

@VP: Did you get that last night? If so, considering the flip I'd be VERY hesitant to lynch based on that and the timing - how/why would KMD win after death?

However, all you have to do is look at this wagon if you wanted more concrete reasons.

[SpyreX]

Again, SC reeks town after the last few posts (even if massclaim is a los terrible's bad idea).

[SpyreX]

@SC:

SB opted to answer for you right after (the answer is yes).

[SpyreX]

I use it on them, not give it to em. So, no luck in that voodoo.

[SpyreX]

I have a list of potions. The majority are colors - there are a few that are descriptive without being colors (although even in that subset there are colors mentioned).

Note I'm trying to make damn sure I dont get modkilled so thats why I'm not simply giving said list.

[SpyreX]

My role is pretty simple. Pick a potion, pick a target, ??? happens to said target.

That part is easy to explain without issue.

[SpyreX]

Yea, funny how that works huh.

Kinda like how I said I assumed my role was active and all right?

[SpyreX]

Yes I have a very wide variety left.

[SpyreX]

The names! Wooosh!

Now I thought there was a correlation between color and function but if my black one didn't kill then that isn't true. If there IS a correlation and this is due to scum shenanigai by SB then I might have an idea of a few others.

[SpyreX]

There is no reference to The Giver in my PM

[SpyreX]

Scope will have to go the way of the dodo. However, THIS knot provides more long term gain.

[SpyreX]

See here's what gets me though:

1. The townies we've flipped, and the townies who've claimed, all have inherent powers, which matches the theme of the game - being born near the Dark Goma grants powers. SpyreX looks like he was born outside the city walls and has to manufacture powers through these potions.
2. SpyreX's role PM lacks the Type line that the sample townie PM and my PM have.
3. SpyreX's role PM lacks any mention of the Giver.
4. SpyreX has claimed that his role doesn't care about the Giver/War at all.
5. SpyreX's claimed role name lacks the -xr ending. Again, I'm giving credence to this theory until I see something that contradicts it.

These things add up to 3rd party (prolly survivor) to me.

1.) Our sample size is still fairly small (although if I end up being the ONLY town with a not er role name I'll shake my fist). Further, when this was brought up day 1

I actively said it wasn't correct

. Now, assuming I am ANY third party role survival is going to be a key component of my success - why in the name of everything holy would I paint a target on myself as third party? Now, if I am, in fact, town - doesn't derailing an incorrect train of thought make sense?

2.) I said I don't have that specific line that was quoted. Which I dont. That doesn't mean I don't have a similar line referencing Special.

3 & 4.) Yes to both. However, again, as third party wouldn't it be in my best interest to lie about these? (as, of course, the expected answers were obvious?)

5.) Sigh. No budging you on this for now.

So, lets look at this (and I swear to god if someone says WIFOM I will scream) from whats happened:

I don't make sense as scum in this scenario - either SB and I are scum together and I opted to bus the miller by calling them out and they turned around and bussed me back OR SB is actually a miller and I...wasted my ability on a miller.

I don't make sense as third party in this scenario - see #1 above and my honesty when lying would have made a whole hell of a lot more sense with that whole "needing to survive" bit.

Which leaves me being town. Which I am.

----

That said, I still think PZ is town, pretty solid as this goes on. He's actually TRYING to parse through whats going on and find scum in it.

BM's aren't bad lynches. SB is a great lynch. I am a good lynch informationally (but a bad lynch flip-wise)

[SpyreX]

It wouldn't take a lot to convince me of that jump but I still can't shake the gut feeling I got reflexed because SB is scum and this was a clever ruse.

And, not to mention, the fact that we STILL haven't seen what the damn potion did but we got the classic ascerbic "I have a life" business as a response.

[SpyreX]

Good gravy, miss a day and absolute madness.

No. I can't target myself.

Yes, I make potions. No, I don't know what they do. Yes, they are colors(ish).

Now I apparently totally missed the one-shot cop (which is sad because it means my colors have nothing to do with anything) but I am tentatively willing to give it a shot - dig thine own grave as it were.

I'm also irritated because, if true, that means my whole business has NOTHING to do with SB and thus makes even less sense.

Unvote

Now, on the -er front I THINK I have a theory that is partially confirmable AND makes sense considering my position and what we've seen. However, I want SOME opinions before I detail it because a.) it would involve some PR directing and b.) it -may- give useful information to the scum.

As it sits though I'll probably be throwing a vote a BM way. Not even sure which one at this moment.

@Volk:

Benmage aside, general thoughts? I want a more wide arch from you instead of the fight.

[SpyreX]

HAHAH, I like how you knew it was you.

Its really simple and I'm honestly a little angry at myself (and thus you ALL) for not following it through. -er is NOT a function of alignment. It is a function of ability type.

-er, being added to verbs as we've seen denotes active abilities. Thus, players with -er endings will have active abilities and those without (such as myself) do not.

Now, what this means is that SC has the ability to duplicate -er's. Now, the only obvious unclaimed er (unless I've missed claims which could be true) is Papa Zito.

Further, with this many power roles I think the chances are slim that we do NOT have a watcher-type role. Thus, I would propose: SC touches Zito. Watcher watches SC. Doc protects Zito. If anyone is seen going to SC they are scum and die. If Zito doesn't give SC an ability he is scum and dies.

Now, the only major downfall is the fact I think Zito and SC are town and thus I don't expect any of the above to happen.

[SpyreX]

@Zito:

The idea was you've been pushing the "er" theory so strongly that if you weren't an er role (and thus based on my idea not an active) then this has been scum smoke and mirrors.

And so far that only piece that doesn't match that is the "miller" with a cop investigation?

Guess I was wrong.

In saying SB should get another day. ZING.

Unvote, Vote: SB

[SpyreX]

Well, BM's whole posturing with this early on and subsequent vanishing act are truly, madly, deeply bothersome.

You, on the other hand, haven't vanished but aside from your volkan-fight haven't really offered anything resembling reasons for voting me.

Which, actually goes for most of those votes I asked for rationales about.

[SpyreX]

Hold up a second.

What did I say when now?

That sure looks like implying that I've lied about something.

[SpyreX]

I dig the above. Far too much this game.

However, if someone that ISNT SB wants to come foward with something (OMG ROLEFISH) that makes what I'm saying about the er not make sense let me know.

[SpyreX]

I know rolefishing and all but are you saying you are an -er that IS active or an -er that ISNT (refuting said theory).

I love me some softclaims.

[SpyreX]

Are you talkin about me?

That said SC should be given MORE than a few to check now. So no need to direct him more than that at this moment in time.

[SpyreX]

... This thread. We get 4 pages in a day, BM promises a reread and we get... nothing after.

[SpyreX]

I hate to be mr pokey but DGB did you catch my question about your role?

Yea, I'm seeing minimal downside to the SB lynch.

[SpyreX]

Damnit Volkan, why you gotta spoil my thunder.

Unvote

With that in mind, I would jump behind Ben, Scope or BM. Sajin's latest post also ruffles the feathers.

@Stark:

These are the not "colors" I have:

Green Jelly, White Powder, Sandy, Reflective

(Needless to say this isn't near all of the potions I have, just the non color ones)

[SpyreX]

???

Fair enough, curious to why though.

[SpyreX]

Lets not talk about fullclaiming and if you're going to do it, just do it.

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

[SpyreX]

Milkshake found Ben claiming VT psychologically scummy and not actually scummy.

I am totally down with the VP death list WITH the addition of SB before end if still alive.

[SpyreX]

Well then

Unvote, Vote: Tubby

[SpyreX]

@Zito:

My process here is real simple. Plum implied knowing something in relation to his role and asked for information. His reply was "HAHA NO WAGON NO SIR".

So, I'm making the wagon.

Choo choo!

[SpyreX]

Well played.

Except, not.

[SpyreX]

....

Just so I have this right:

Plum, you KNOW that he is The Happy Hoppy Fuzzy Bunny?

I'm dead inside.

[SpyreX]

Unvote

Plum. I believe you.

Thus, I'll believe that ridiculous claim for the moment.

Thus, I'll believe milkshake.

WELP

Vote: Benmage

[SpyreX]

So, instead of believing whats going on:

Plum scum claims a role investigation on Tubby scum who, despite the fact it makes NO sense, claims Happy Fuzzy dancing robot or whatever that hides behind Milkshake (another decent target) and thus milkshake can't be scum.

Ohh yea and Plum wasn't even remotely a target.

*explodes*

[SpyreX]

Lynchin benmage up ins. Hop on

[SpyreX]

Thats probably because every moment leads to more madness and not more awesome.

I'm willing to believe Plum which leads to something interesting down that chain. SB has a "cop" from me so its not even worth fighting over today.

A lynch now is a chance for revitalization.

[SpyreX]

I ran tubby up for a specific reason. That reason was dealt with.

Thus, back to where we were.

[SpyreX]

^ This is a giant ball of rolefishing. The bad kind.

[SpyreX]

I'm not good at waiting. Especially when the answer seems clear and asking for said answer doesn't seem awesome*.

Note: This means if you have MYSTIC INFORMATION (TM) saying Plum is lying in the greatest of scum maneuvers, then go for it. If not, the above post just says simply "I AM TUBBIES SCUM PARTNER THANKS IN ADVANCE"

I'm done with this day. Its time for blood.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

*This is for town-awesome. Scum it would be awesome, but then you would be dead for being scum soo

[SpyreX]

Hey, DGB.

I know we've had some slapfights and what have you in the past.

I just want to take this opportunity to give you this:

<3

[SpyreX]

Alrighty, I guess I can take all the parts in this.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Plum: Tubby, claim your role. (Hint: this means I have some information about his role. Probably gained, in fact, from an investigative action. A rolecop if you will - and the information doesn't even begin to make sense with what we've seen thus far.)

Tubby: I'm not doin nothin' COPPA MUSHAHAHAH

Everyone Else: OHH NO YOU DIDNT VOTES!

Tubby: Ohh snap. I am hider-bunny. I hid behind milkshake.

Plum: Well, hells bells, that matches this role-based information I posses (the rolecoppitude in work). Even if it makes not a lot of sense I'll believe it.

SpyreX: Well, that exchange was easy to read behind the lines. Plum would have no reason to do that as scum that makes a lot of sense, sooo I'm willing to believe all parties. Back to the vanilla townie claim.

Sociopath: *CHOOSE YOUR OWN ADVENTURE TIME*

Do you have some kind of night action that would mean you shouldn't believe Plum?

If yes, then vote.
If no, then don't vote.

End result: A VOTE.

What's missing? The rationale leading to it. Shebang.

SpyreX: Either give your information why you wouldn't believe it or.. stop.

Sociopath: I'll let Plum (????) do that.

SpyreX: WELP, TIME FOR STORIES AND HEAD EXPLOSIONS.


That about sum it up?

[SpyreX]

Sigh.

SocioPath,

You've all but beat our heads over some kind of ??? saying that Plum can not have role based information on Tubby.

Oddly enough, spilling it COULD lead to chain lynches of scum.

Yet, you haven't.

Why is this?

[SpyreX]

DGB I'm coming to that couch with you. Can't think, head hurt.

Please lets not have this turn into somekind of AWESOME STARING CONTEST.

[SpyreX]

I know milk. He's either went I AM ROLEBLOCKER or I AM SC'S ROLE as far as I can tell. But, alas, we've got to wait for one of them to budge.

[SpyreX]

^

This is true.

However, Plum's turn up on THE FIRES OF HOT HOT HEAT: THE BURNING QUESTION.

[SpyreX]

God I got like quarda previewed. That ^ was for DGB.

[SpyreX]

Plum, m'dear, one more question:

This wasn't in the form of a "note" was it?

[SpyreX]

Fair enough.

I'd love the rationale for RB'ing you from Sociopath BUT as it sits back to benmage lynching now.

[SpyreX]

Thats some excellent role hunting that most definitely shouldn't be answered regardless.

I think I've made my stance pretty clear even if I am a spooky ghostthing right now.

[SpyreX]

Not Ben, but Sociopath.

Otherwise, yea.

Except for you missed:

A states that the info was gotten from E which means D isn't on solid ground with A being a liars.

[SpyreX]

@Zito:

Ohh hells yea the RB claim isn't TOWN TM but the timing and everything else doesn't make sense unless Plum AND Tubby were scum together which then doesn't make sense because of the derail.

So, yea.

[SpyreX]

I'm not in favor of a massclaim (SHOCK AWE). Nor do I think its happening now. It can wait until past day 2 ffs.

I like this. This is far better than your "it must be bussing!" paranoia. I like me some good chainsaw defense paranoia instead.

unvote; vote: Benmage

I... what? Everything going on this is what we get?

Thats ok though. The eyes are still in the sockets soo...

@Elmo: Your predecessor was completely useless. However, due to votecount shenanigan, it has been established you have a decent chance of being a DV. Therefore you are a slight source of controversy.

I hate the bunny claim, but when Plum and Socio and Benmage and Tubby all could be possible scum, the logical thing is to get on the bigger wagon

Unvote
Vote: benmage

But. I. You. Wagon. Bigger.

Ok, thats one eye gone. I can still see at least some.

Ah, I'm so confused with this game. Claims back and forth, some of them which doesn't make any sense at all. I don't know what to think...

Anyways, I'll unvote for now. The whole tubby lynch is just too confusing now. Too much wifom, too much possibilities.

WELP, there goes the other eye. Time for reading via osmosis.

Except these words seeping into my brain are making me sick.

I wonder what Ben's deal is.

Vote: Benmage

Let's do this thing.

But you just asked not to long ago if there was EVEN A REASON FOR THIS WAGON. I.... my...

7.) SpyreX: Confused. I think theres still a good chance hes scum. Noway a town SpyreX thinks i'm scum, we've just been in like 3 games where I was town...and has my play changed at all?

Now, this is interesting. Aside from the fact I care as much about meta as I do about what's happening in other galaxies - yes, I do see a difference in this play.

Not that I care one whit about it and wouldn't even begin to absolve or condemn you because of it but there is a marked difference.

However, that is secondary to the play. Especially regarding your claim, your stance on me, your interactions with Volkan and your general history this one. So...

---

Stark is town. Or a magnificent scum. Either way I am pro his life and I wished YESTERDAY had this stark.

@Stark: Claim-switch-claim is generally a bad strategy. However, the main wagon (ben) was pushed to a vanilla claim (:roll:) and then plum insinuated information leading to a new wagon (because it wouldn't be given freely).

Do I think Tubby is a-grade town now? Hoss to the no. Do I think he is the correct lynch today? Nope.

[SpyreX]

Name 2 good reasons why not. 1 even.

Why not tubby today?

The information does not clear him but it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Plum (scum) to come out and do this. So, one has to assume at least the BASIC part (the role) is true.

Now, flavor, etc, etc The Happy Hoppy Fuzzy Bunny or whatever the hell it is being a hider forces an issue of sorts - this hider has heavily implied hiding behind scum = death. So, go ahead and use it (with some clear but not BLAZINGLY obvious breadcrumbs of targets) and if he picks wrong welp dead tubby = found scum.

Not to mention the interactions between ALL parties involved in this mess scream, to me, town. Or, at the very minimum not all scum together (and, until we have information lending itself strongly to multiple scum groups not goin that way).

Theres differences in every game. You could say mafia 98 differed from 841 but i was town in both...i still think my play is the same(for obvious reasons)

My claim...w.t.f would it do? You believe it and wagon up someone else only to claim and repeat the cycle we've been down.

My interaction with Vollkan doesnt at all resemble how i've bickered with gieff in one game with crypto in another?? I have a knack for it.

History this one? explain..

There are atrocious votes on me/players in this game. I thinking i'm pinging you as the strangercoug of this game. Your better than this, so the only explanation is you are scum.

If you guys want more of a claim i can give flavor and name but not ability.

If there are differences in every game then how could one make a meta argument for the similarities in play being justification for an alignment? (Hint, I hate meta so yea).

We didn't have even the option to evaluate your claim because

you opted to lie about it.

This is important. Now, when one has their nice little hat on that reeks not only scum BUT that the scum (much like KMD) do NOT have safeclaims and the nature of the role would lend itself to being scum and not town. (Note, you, yourself got after KMD for multiple claims and have opted to do just the same)

No it doesn't. There is a difference in it, but that's all meta and happenstance and not my style. If someone wants to put on their magic hats and go a dancin' feel free.

As for history this game. Most of it, when not bickering, you've had the cruise control on. For damn near 200 posts you've actually been DOING very little (when not on the defensive). That strikes me as not more than a little bit off.

SpyreX should get started on those hats, maybe.
Shocked

Just quoting this so that it can be known clearly that I had aboslutely no information of any sort when I made the Happy Bunny Good Town Fisherman(er) and if it ends up tubby is telling the truth I want some kind of prize. (and, if not, kudos for the worlds best fakeclaim).

---

Thats all you get from me tonight. More later. I'd love to see the "lets lynch dramonic" left-field rationale.

And, I'm on the record now saying that soon we need to pick a direction and go. Period.

[SpyreX]

I'll give you that.

However, I feel morale slipping through my fingertips and would REALLY like to see a lynch soon. 80 pages and one lynch makes SpyreX a dull boy.

[SpyreX]

I agree with Spyrex on town losing focus here. The early part of large games is about taking action. Right now we need to be lynching one of the already claimed folks who have acted scummy and just move forward from there. No one is really contributing substantially to the discussion any more so it is time we take some action.

I still support the benmage or Sociopath lynch and whichever is in the lead is who I will be voting for. Hopefully everyone else will begin to focus a bit more. I see no reason for six people to not be voting at all at this point.

See this?

This needs to happen.

Lynch. Soon. We hit a scum, AWESOME. We hit a town, ohh snap, but we move on.

It is a thousand times easier to recover from a mislynch than from apathy. We are approaching VERY apathetic territory.

I honestly at this point could care less about the lynch. I'd prefer Ben to most but hell if lynching me ended up getting this day done and some life back here then go for it.

[SpyreX]

Wasn't I scum not too long ago? What changed?

[SpyreX]

You know what?

Fine.

unvote

vote: KaleiÐoscøpe

Let this be known now though.

IF KS = town. I really want benmage dead.
IF BM = scum. Then I want Zito dead.

(I'm laying it out like this because I really expect my ghost-ass to float off before the above can happen)

[SpyreX]

That I want you dead for being scum?

However, I want the GAME to move forward even more than that and a KS lynch doesn't bother me one bit at this juncture.

[SpyreX]

It's all connected as part of the circle of life.

I want you lynched today. However, I'm ok with KS.
HOWEVER, if KS is town then, lo and behold, I smell some stink on this shift. Thus, back to lynching you.
At that point, if you ARE scum the shift becomes truly the child of Zito.

[SpyreX]

I'm paying attention but also apparently missing the point.

Are you saying you have no vote? Which makes the vote count even weirder?

[SpyreX]

Kise you are a mystery and an engima.

I kinda like it though.

[SpyreX]

But what if your cat is a slut already? HOW CAN WE KNOW? WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM

Nah, I'm alright with dramonic. I'll give you that. You are a mystery but not a bad one. Although I'd really prefer you kick it up a notch come tomorrow after we lynch KS.

HINT: LYNCH KS. SPEED WAGON. GO GO.

Please.

Please.

[SpyreX]

It DOESNT make Ben TOWN(TM) if KS is mafia. However, it doesn't make logistical sense for Zito to shift the wagon from scum to scum as much as from scum - town.

I'd be delving into that HUGE POST HISTORY of KS tomorrow if scum before I went a direction. (Note, this means the inteactions with other people and KS because, swish on that history itself).

Anywho, totally fine with this lynch.

[SpyreX]

I dig VP ish but WHY would SP come out and claim a RB on Plum when she was confirming Tubby?

[SpyreX]

Which is cool and all I guess except for the fact unless I'm missing something huge there isn't solid ground for two scum groups and EVEN if there were having a group-aligned scum flip would be a net gain of 0.

Meh

[SpyreX]

I agree about Plum not making sense.

I just have a hard time stomaching thinking in this setup assuming two scum factions that claiming a role that, in comparison to what we've seen, could screw the OTHER factions plans up would not be a fatty NK target.

Not to mention that RB is one of those claims I wouldn't think someone would thrust out as SUPER TOWN.

Now, I guess Plum's secret "mason" friend could be a scum partner and there is some kinda wild wacky rolecopping going on and SP comes out with "trap sprung" roleblock but... day 2? This many alive?

I don't like it.

[SpyreX]

I guess what gets me is, from the way I read it, it really seems like Plum was expecting him to lie. Which doesn't make sense as scum.

Also, with the amazing amount of fragmentation we've had would you say KS is a BAD lynch?

[SpyreX]

too long, didn't read.

[SpyreX]

No, it's not a bad lynch. I understand your plan fully and can see it is already working quite well. If you give me a votecount and a wink, I might be inclined to help.

Votecount:

Not enough.

[SpyreX]

Claims are good.

Waiting isn't good.

Thus, wait some, but before waiting becomes awesome, make with the dead.

[SpyreX]

(Ohh yea and just so we're clear IF SB is scum BattleMage should eat rope too)

(Yes I know we're not lynching SB today)

(Parenthesis are awesome)

[SpyreX]

Nah, I'm totally alive and kicking.

I have a theory too. It would require SC coming clean with what he got from VP.

Further, in case there was any doubt, my potions colors mean jack squat. I gave DGB the reflective one last night and, welp, sure didn't reflect anything.

VP also being zombified or whatever (which seems to change NOTHING as far as I can tell) makes my SB theory a bit harder to swing.

Hmmm.

[SpyreX]

I really like the toss out "er" theory AGAIN.

I may not be able to lynch you because of VP also getting zombified, but cop investigation on a dead target? That little snipe?

Its not like I need a whole lot of reasons to go that way, fo sho'.

But, time to look back at what wagons collapsed yesterday, and why.

Needless to say: tubby - target last night?

[SpyreX]

Ohh yea and I totally forgot:

Vote: Benmage

Silly me.

[SpyreX]

I, as far as I know, am totally like I was. Unless I'm being messed with and sending in phatom night actions the only difference between me d1 and now is the block of flavor text.

Sociopath:

You blocked what you are assuming is a passive role?

[SpyreX]

Fighting a cold so I might be a bit behind. But:

I want you lynched today. However, I'm ok with KS.
HOWEVER, if KS is town then, lo and behold, I smell some stink on this shift. Thus, back to lynching you.
At that point, if you ARE scum the shift becomes truly the child of Zito.

Thats why I am voting for BM. The Zito caveat only REALLY applies if BM is scum.

[SpyreX]

Hold up.

Dra, did you just imply role knowledge that would make SB scum?

Ohh snap rolefishing.

To answer zito, dra is not SUPER TOWN, but I'm not itching at him. Yet. This exchange on this page may change that.

[SpyreX]

Ohh snap.

Milk being scum is a dead tubby. Yea. I am 100% in favor of this.

(Note: I am doing a reread *vomit* of this game and I'll have some other notes in the near future)

[SpyreX]

Berry Interestingz

I'm down*.

Unvote, Vote: Milkshake.

*I'm gonna have some post up ins, that may cause some other directions. This one IS A GOOD ONE THOUGH LETS NOT DANCE FOR FORTY MORE PAGES PLEASE I AM ASKING NOW PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GOD PLEASE

[SpyreX]

So, we're going to play a game I call "Find the scumz".

BUT, before that can happen.

VP:

I've been so alone. This world just doesn't make sense. Then, then, I found you. I feel so much more complete in this ghostly form with a partner.

What I'm saying is, will you marry me? Until undeath does us part? <3

Yea, thats right. Its UNBREAKABLE ALLIANCE TIME.

----

Now, onto some interesting things I've found in rereading this "game".

1.) Deathnote wagon:

Dramonic, SpyreX, Benmage,

KK

, Plum, SnowBunny, Stark

Aside from KK, who I think WAS vigged by Tajo, no one on this wagon has been killed. Removing myself, we're looking at a very interesting bunch:

Dramonic, Benmage, Plum, SnowBunny, Stark.

Now, way back when I said there was a good chance for two scum on that wagon. We hit one. I'd put heavy odds on there being another *cough* Benmage *cough* in that grouping.

2.) A quarrel gone to far: SpyreX & SnowBunny

This one got lost in the mix of events, but needless to say I still want SB dead for a myriad of reasons.

However, this one popped up. Repeatedly I've been accused of being scum by SB (for reasons that, again, don't make sense but). SB then says they have a cop investigation and

don't use it on me.

Which is bad enough. But then, THEN, it is used on one of the kill targets. When the cop results were "No Result" or "With the Converters". I don't like it.

And, then, of course the "I'm not going to stop people from lynching me (P.S. I'm stopping people from lynching me)" today.

If SB flips scum, BM looks real bad for the business yesterday. I think the interactions would squeak out another one fairly quickly.

Additionally, I really don't like the parroting I saw about quality over quantity much later that was given out by *gasp* KK.

3.) Shifting wagonland

So allow me to preface this by once again saying I don't feel bad about the KScope lynch. At all.

However, like I said and was voting before this, on top of wanting Benmage dead for play the implication of Benmage scum IS hardcore on Zito being scum shifting a wagon. (Note, actual scum, not the sk seeming bidness we have goin around).

4.) A true WTF moment that went unpoked - Chamber

I've reread the game. And even reread those pages again.

Why in the hell did chamber claim

? Seriously. Further, it was a claim of a role that on the surface doesn't do ANYTHING and no one has made claims of it doing anything.

Again, seriously baffled.

5.) SpyreX's booboo that should have been caught onto and pushed but wasn't but in the not pushing really gives me the heebee jeebees.

Time for clarifying something.

I made a huge mistake when I claimed. Specifically, when I said "I am an Alchemist".

I am THE Alchemist.

Now, this was bantered about some but there is one that really stands out:

@Spyrex/all- Yes your theory sucks. In fact, the whole -er theory sucks. The only observation that holds true is that everyone's role names start with "The". Anything beyond that I am viewing as a mass rolefishing attempt to get people to say one way or another what abilities they may or may not have.

On top of the fishing charges, there is the issue with I wasn't put to heels for my role not matching the theory. And further (and this may be :tinfoil:) the vehemence in which this is said (everyone's) when at that point the sample size is so low makes me think someone may have seen one or two more role-names than we've had access to in the flips.

So, short form:

Benmage, Sajin, SnowBunny & now Milkshake are nice solid lynches. I will lynch any of them. In any order. As long as they all go byebye soon.

[SpyreX]

....

Tubby you said you were a hider and definitely insinuated that if you hide behind not town you die.

If Milk comes up NOT TOWN, you die.

I am confused.

[SpyreX]

Lets take a step back.

Ok, everyone who has actions that are known confirm I have this right:

Night 1:

SC touches SpyreX (no result / zombie)
SpyreX potions SB (black potion / one shot cop)
Milk calms kise (nothing happened / jailed / not informed)
Dramonic jails Milk (results?)
Tubby hides behind Mlik (says if milkshake were a

converter

he'd be killed)
Plum via buddy rolecops Tubby (gets Happy Bunny)
Chamber makes it snow?
SocioPath roleblocks Plum

Night 2:

SC touches VP (no result / zombie)
SpyreX potions DGB (reflective / dead )
Milk calms kise (?)
Dramonic jails Plum (?)
Tubby hides behind BM (breadcrumb?)
Plum roleblocked / no information from buddy
Chamber ?'s
Sociopath roleblocks Elmo

So, general questions (if this is correct):

@All:

Are you getting confirmations that your actions WORKED or just that the mod RECEIVED them? This needs to be answered doubly by the roleblockers.

@Milk:

Did you receive any kind of PM from the mod saying that you were jailed and thus your action didn't work? Or, well, anything that day?

Did you get anything about calming kise day 2?

@Tubby:

Does your hide actions say "hide behind converters = death" or "hide behind non-town = death".

Did you breadcrumb hiding behind BM?

Why did you choose BM?

@Plum:

Did you get RB flavor both nights? 1 night?

It may be time for your partner to come out. Are you confirmed town?

Is there another rolecop report?

I swear I'm missing something. VP, help me ohh great spoon.

[SpyreX]

Because I'm getting tired and I jumped ahead with the zombification meaning no result.

Which isn't proven true or false yet. Swoosh.

[SpyreX]

And am I flat out missing someone that has claimed? I really feel like I am.

[SpyreX]

Eeerppp I'm confused this page:

Dramonic:

I answered. Which incidentally explains how your action on tubby worked even though I tried to

hide

.

Que???

Plum:

I said specifically that I did not execute the ability Night 1 and so a roleblock/jailkeeping could not affect whether or not my partner and I received a result, so we got no notice. But we always get a notice about our actual action: either an investigation result of a "targeter got blocked". I wasn't notified because it didn't affect the action results Night 1 because my partner, not I, executed the

RB

.

Que???

[SpyreX]

I'll be gone for a chunk of today but a few things that percolated out:

@Dram:

Why, WHY, didn't you bring this out

yesterday

when the whole tubby-milk-plum-sociopath business was going on?

@VP:

I saw the DV by Elmo (which isn't surprising).

The ONLY way I would want you to feed SC's fish would be if you have an active and he got it. Of course, I'd prefer if that went down like such:

VP: I have an active ability.
SC: Yes, you do. It is XXXX.
VP: Yes, that is it. Hooray!

(although, personally, my theory says that isn't what happened).

[SpyreX]

Ohh and one more I found in my re-read that I'd love to have explained:

Tell him how you could possibly know Tubby's rolename. You're not a cop, you're not mason partners. You're scum. That would be how.

This was early on in the whole fiasco yesterday. Now, this seems to be pretty clearly illustrating...well... exactly what Plum is claiming. As not. Yet, nothing was said as the things went on?

Not to mention WHY this statement was made so adamantly?

[SpyreX]

Spy, my problem is that I don't want to out anything about my ability which is going to help the scum determine who they need to kill. Even something as simple as outting active or inactive gives a TON of information to scum on whether or not they should target me at night. If people think I am scum, then I could understand the need to test me, but I don't see any reason to just start outting role information. Maybe I have a role that is a major threat to the scum, maybe I don't, but in my opinion it is better to keep them guessing.

If you absolutely are set on it, then I'll give whether or not SC would have gotten an ability from me (ie active or not), but I am strongly stating my opposition to doing it simply because he is calling for it. His rolefishing is ridiculous and I don't see how any town player would be so set on outting as many roles as possible as early as possible. (his choices of targets don't make much sense to me thus far either).

Baby, we don't have to fight. I think its gonna come out but if you want to keep it tight and force SC to play the first move, thats cool.

(Note, I still have a less sinister opinion for whats going on that I'll get to but it's partially dependent on you two sillies) (Note: I'm still thinking SC is town, just on a different wavelength, sooo)

Anyone: Why are we thinking SK as opposed to vig?

Kill choices. Plain and simple. I'll say this now and nice and clear: if someone is claiming vig at this point on any of the kills we've seen kill them. Period.

The strangler hit Volkan. No way in hell is he a vig target.
The slitter hit DGB which maaybeee (hint: no) could be justified but Tajo? No. No way in hell.

I was trying to pressure scumPlum into tripping and falling over explaining how she knew tubby's rolename.

She asked tubby's rolename, and claimed to know that. So she obviously wouldn't ask her mason buddy tubby in thread ask to what his name is in a slip. She obviously couldn't role cop him either cause of the block. So it really seemed like scum. Turns out scenario 3 was she's masons with a shared power which I didn't block.

I approve of this answer.

I'm not going to spoon feed you game content. Stop being lazy scum.

I disapprove of this one as much as I approved of the first.

Unvote for now though, since people are right that it doesn't mean that milk is definitely scum, as I felt when I first voted him.

You know, though, Clergyman's massclaim idea would clear up a few things concerning milk's claim, such as if there were other actions that may have prevented the kill, or if there really is someone out there who needs curing of sanity. Also, KMD did say that scum didn't get fakeclaims, so it could be useful in outing scum. I'd be in favor of it, not that I expect anyone else to be, just thought I'd mention it since the though occurred to me.

These two paragraphs firmly put Vaya in my kill list. If I REALLY need to explain why I will but :headdesk:.

The reason to out Plum's partner is if it becomes obvious that she's scum we need the partner outed. At the moment if the tubby/plum/everything else fiasco all comes down in a flaming pile of crap, we're at a loss on who her partner is. Plus outing her partner is hardly going to be a problem - they have two people, one outed and one secret and the outed one took the night action last night, apparantly.

And if Plum is town, which still makes sense, its a bit fat target. Although I do see what you are saying and will weigh this into whats going on.

btw, I am just going to spill my theory about the 'undead' thing since it is a serious concern to me. Basically, I am worried that Spyrex and I may now be chained to the death of SC in some way. Clearly being undead has some kind of effect and I don't see how it can be anything positive. I also really hate his choice of targets and my guess, if my theory is correct, is that he plans on taking out a whole bunch of protown players in one fell swoop to boost the scum team to victory. I know that's kind of crazy, but it has me very perturbed and if he is scum then he needs to die at the earliest possible juncture. Frankly, I don't believe a word coming out of his mouth that he doesn't know anything about the zombification. It would be some serious bastard-modding to have your ability have a secret effect on players that you have no clue about beforehand.

Unvote, Vote: SerialClergyman You need to fess up about the zombie thing immediately.

Now, I dig where you are going but I think there IS a hidden caveat to this role (although I'm sure as hell paranoid NOW about you being right thank you very much). I am thinking it is much simpler though: you, like me, do not have an active role. Thus, our ghostification is a byproduct of the power not working that, so far, appears to not actually do anything.

Arrite.

vote: Dramonic

This vote won't move. As a famous philosopher once said, if Dramonic isn't scum I'll eat my hat.

Now who is this favorite philosopher of yours? I approve of his teachings.

I'm really itchy on dramonic right now. Of course this game is killing me but I still have a hard time of scum jumping out with scummy roles going AHA scum found knowing that if they are wrong it makes them look bad. This will take some thinkin.

----

As it sits my previous list stands.

Someone other than me needs to parse what is going on with the differences in dra's, plums and sp's declaration of whats going on. Something is a fishy there and I can't freaking figure it out.

Although, the case on milk IS circumstantial and we should damn well be able to pull something better out.

Which, while I'm looking for:

Unvote, vote: Benmage

[SpyreX]

The thing is that a town rolecop and KMD's business implies a lack of scum safeclaims (which makes Plum et partner a GREAT tool come massclaim time) and if there is some connection to names and she stumbles on "The MURDERERER" then welp slam dunk.

And with both an SK and Mafia wanting them dead for such a reason well I get a little itchy. However, like I said, its worth weighing the gains (depending on who the partner is I could see a definite shift to "ohh snap towns up in lets move elsewhere")

The theory is good, even if I bet its wrong. We've been screwed with. We don't know what it did. VP seemed pretty freaking town thus I'm a bit confused at you targetting him. So, it could be some kinda "if you kill me all these bastards die and the mafia wins muhahaha" so I'm 99.9% sure you're not mafia if this is bad but by god could this be a scandalous third party.

Thats just the tinfoil talking for now though (it talks a lot).

Your coming out the way you did does a LOT to justify you being town to me, imo.

[SpyreX]

The musician? Nah, that reaks of making things up as you go along.

I'm saying that Happy Hoppy Fuzzy Bunny and THE KILLER OF TOWN PLAYERS could be yin-yang rolenames. Who knows.

Ohh hi Ben thanks for that insight. I hope you don't really think I'm dumb .

[SpyreX]

Well, if you guys are unwilling to follow through with the Milkshake I don't mind. But until I see someone get strangled with Milk disabled, he's my top suspect.

Wait, what? If you think Milk is scum, say so. Explain why - don't just shrug ones shoulders and go "welp".

[quote"Zito"]
Avatar bet?

I'm feeling way too lazy to type everything out. [/quote]

I can't give up the majesty that is the Ur-Quan.

I will subscribe to the newsletter though.

Yeah, I mean, I'll be the first to admit it's a tinfoil theory and is pretty out there. It could be something else entirely and probably is. What gets me is SC claims to have no knowledge of the zombification or what it means. I don't believe that at all and since no one claimed anything that would interact with the zombie's, it makes me highly skeptical. It could be a MacGuffin by the mod, but if it has ANY sort of effect on players and SC doesn't know, then it's bastardization in the extreme (which ckd would not do, imo).

SC's reasons for targetting don't make sense to me at all either. Ambiguous meta reasons for me dont' sit well. I know he got me as scum in the /invitational game, but I think my play has been significantly better and different than that game. If he thinks I'm acting different from his town meta on me (which is only based on one game), then I want an actual explanation with examples of what he sees different.

His reasons for targetting Spyrex make even less sense because in no way does touching him "confirm" Spyrex as town, as he claims. All it does is confirm if he has an active ability or not...I don't see how he makes the leap in logic to that = confirmed town. Taking abilities from scum players is the only pro-town way to play the role he is claiming to have and he is clearly not doing that.

Now, the choice of targets is the yin to the method he claimed yang. I, flat out, don't get touching us (because it sure wouldn't confirm our alignments). However, I also don't understand the TRAP SPRUNG if he is scum that he tried to pull on me - that reeks of genuinely thinking he caught me in some kind of elaborate gambit.

[SpyreX]

Ok. Its time to shake past the power-role dance and look at this from a holistic approach.

I'm throwing this out there with one thing in mind:

I'm really starting to think there isn't a crazy scum masterplot causing havoc. It is simply us chasing our tails.

With that in mind, lets look at our cast of characters. (bold mean claims thus far)

1.) tubby216 (50)

2.) Vaya (36)
3.) Battle Mage (70)
5.) Papa Zito (93) (6)
6.) VP Baltar (152)

7.) SpyreX (162)

8.) SerialClergyman (88) (7)

9.) milkshake (125)

10.) Snow_Bunny (70)

11.) dramonic (172)

12.) Benmage (236)

13.) SocioPath (76)

16.) Sajin (50)
17.) LlamaFluff (65) (1)

18.) chamber (22) (2)

20.) Plum (98)
21.) Kise (48)
23.) Elmo (14) (16)
24.) stark (92)

Again, our Mod: 62

Now, the first problem with this game is pretty simple. If you asked me how many freaking players were alive no way in hell would I say 24. We are not having the kind of activity and, well, scumhunting that one would expect from that many.

This is simple enough. Three suspects. Everyone. Next post.

So, I've been twisting about the whole claims and AHA bits. Lets parse this out again.

SpyreX - claimed due to zombification / reflexive theory on this being SB's fault.

SC - claimed to attempt to call SpyreX out (good) and then further claimed the second target of VP (good)

Milkshake - claimed in their second post (bad). Claimed that if someone is "totally insane" (what) they make them sane. (overall, with no mention of SK at this point and the assumation relooking at it that this FIXES SK's not cops I give this a tentative good OR SK)

Snow Bunny - Early miller claim (good). PR safe test (bad). This one has been beat to hell so it can sit for now.

Dramonic - claimed due to thinking milk was the SK due to jailing activity (good idea, too many variables for it to be awesome but I'm not so quick to dismiss it). Claimed, again, to try and lynch whom they thought was scum (good).

Plum - claimed to test tubby's givenly bizarre nameclaim (good idea, a little hard for tubs-scum not to see what she was up to but).

Sociopath - claimed to theoretically bust plum (good!). Of course, dancing events say that's up in the air.

Tubby - claimed to save ones own hide (bad) had a breadcrumb (good) that was fairly weak (bad) for a role that damn well could be scum (bad).

chamber - claimed for moonbeams (bad) with a role that thus far has, from appearances, done nothing (bad).

So, if I was to have a bullet, or three, based on this exchange I'd be shooting: chamber, milkshake, tubby.

Now, this should cause a ruckus but:

Plum, m'dear, I'm officially saying I want you to "oust" your neighbor. That variable needs to be pinned down for things to move on from here real good.

Assuming my guesses on that are right, I'll be that guy:

Plum, sociopath, sc, dramonic are all town, or at the very least better at appearing so than most of the game.

Even though I'm not convinced one bit I do not think ANY of the roles that have claimed thus far are a good call (I could bend on SB, but you know).

---

I've preached this song but seriously again:

Benmage has over 200 posts and if I had to give his stance on anything not relating to him I'd be hard pressed.

Sajin truly has the cruise control for cool on and I don't like it.

Vaya and Elmo flat out need to post more. The only reason I'm not all over Elmo is the fact that I haven't seen any OTHER voting mechanics in play at this point so Elmo-scum points at a smaller scumgroup OR Elmo being town.

But, seriously. I will flat out policy lynch someone who doesn't deliver 3 suspects in their next post. The zombie empire and the allies therein will make it happen. I guarantee it.

Complacency will end. By a rope if it has to.

[SpyreX]

Unvote, vote chamber

I'm 100% fine with this.

[SpyreX]

Waaayyy too much meta Ben but by god that may be the first post in a long while you've taken a stand that I can easily read.

I like it.

Now, vote chamber.

[SpyreX]

I'll happily lose this battle.

[SpyreX]

Which one?

(Not scum this time though, tia).

[SpyreX]

These are being compiled. Others do need to chime in.

I am serious about my vote for chamber. Once this whole business is done I may be crusading for that to be the lynch.

[SpyreX]

Babycakes, if you want we can do it... together.

[SpyreX]

Young, undead love is disturbing to people who don't understand how rare it is for two zombies to find SUCH harmony together.

If one was a betting man and had 100$ how many would a Zito place on said Dramonic flip?

[SpyreX]

I like your moxxy, son. You'll make a fine zombie, someday.

If one gets their way, would chamber suit your purposes tomorrow?

[SpyreX]

I wonder how long it'll take lurkers to stop lurking up in here and answer the questions so we can move on.

I'm betting a while.

[SpyreX]

I still do not in the least bit get the milk/tubby hate. You have plum who cleared tubby who cleared milk. HOW DO YOU LYNCH A CLEARED PLAYER IF YOU DONT KNOW THE ALIGNMENT OF THE CLEARER! That like saying, "well I think player A is scum, even though he was cleared by the cop. I bet he is a GF, lets lynch him!" when there are obviously other scum left.

Actually, before we do that lets parse this down correctly.

You have Plum who confirmed Tubbies nameclaim. That is it. Nothing to do with alignment.

You have Tubby who claimed to hide behind milk. Who, from what I'm gathering from dramonic (unless I'm reading this cluster WRONG again) would have been untargettable that night.

Further, you have the absence of a kill on the night dramonic tickled little milky which is a circumstantial case on Mlik being scum.

Independantly of the above:

You have Zito banking 100% on dram being scum.
You have milk and tubby who, ultimately, have done very little this game.

---

So, its not a chain of clears. Its a series of night action bidness.

[SpyreX]

Hmmmm... a 1 2 3.

God, thats haaard There's some hypotheticals I'm expecting that may change this but as of this moment:

1.) Chamber
2.) Sajin
3.) Vaya


Yea, thats right, Benmage dropped for the momento. I've got a huge * bomb that might shift it and there's really a 4-5-6 too.

[SpyreX]

Yeah im not going to vote milk on something like that. There is a claimed RBer, claimed JK, its a good bet that there is a doctor, and I would not be shocked with an driver type role existing. I dont like the timing of the claim, but I would be willing to put a wagon on dram being town here.

See but now we're getting into itchy territory. If we're looking at a multiverse of protective roles then the other sides of it for balance have to be skewed and I'm not sure what I think about that.

But, yea, milk gets a pass for now. The others, well, one can't lay out their whole hand yet.

[SpyreX]

Does that work both ways? Wouldn't one assume then under that guise that I would be converter surprme?

[SpyreX]

Sigh, you used up all your sense last night didn't you.

The absence of votes on me would LEND one to believe that I am generally not considered a converter. Further, if his theory worked both ways I would be converter numero uno since I've clearly laid out I have no "super powers".

[SpyreX]

Thats right. There's no air quotes around it. Its freakin trademarked. Town (TM).

I really need to learn patience though. It's been less than A day and I already want everyone who hasn't posted dead.

[SpyreX]

By mason you mean neighbor right? As in not confirmed.

[SpyreX]

And, again for clarity - are you a role cop?

[SpyreX]

I might could think abouts a dramonic once this is done.

However, oddly enough we've still had one person post that was 2 kool 4 scumlist if I remember correctly.

[SpyreX]

tbh spyre demanding that we all post lists in the way he did pissed me off so I felt like being obstinate for a while but I've calmed down since, I'll get one together eventually. I'm confused atm cause all my reads based on play more or less contradict the cross clearing claims.

See, this illustrates part of why I did what I did (and actively chose to be a little abrasive).

There is very, VERY little pro-town reason to not have scum reads out (notice I didn't ask for a full list because srsly). Whereas making ties to anything else is a bit more risk-reward for the scum.

So, I set it up so there would be an excuse not to do it in the "who the hell does SpyreX think he is" kind of way. Expecting someone to bite - more specifically, expecting a scum to bite.

Its just the kind of thing that one COULD get away with in many circumstances - except this one sure isn't one of them.

[SpyreX]

Since this thread died I figure I'll soapbox on WHY chamber's reaction bothers me ohh soo much and delve a bit deeper into the specifics of what I did. (hint, lists need to be made).

Information asymmetry is, ultimately, the scums greatest tool. Information once it gets out and can be parsed is always a scary idea - and by nature scum HAVE to deliver false information at key points or will be busted.

So, what does this have to do with whats going on? Fairly simple. It should be easy for town to give an unordered list (thats why I didn't ask 1/2/3 because that adds a level) of players they find scummy. On the flipside, it becomes a bit harder for scum - at heart it is a ruse BUT they know they will have to do it or be called out.

So, what do you do as scum when someone says "Posts lists or die asap."

You bluster. You buy time. You try to use the method to counteract the idea.

So, yea, I'm really thinkin this be the way to go although we'll see when the cards get layed out a bit more.

[SpyreX]

No - you post a list. Seriously, how hard is it in 20 people to find three? I think any

scum worth their salt

isn't going to get 'tripped up' by a question like that and feel the need to bluster or stall. In fact, the sort of people who don't comply in my experience tend to be either null read obstinates or townies who don't feel like they have to conform.

Now - you might want to lynch people who don't conform because they could be a liability, but don't dress it up as scumhunting when it's essentially policy lynching.

If one has had input in the game thus far, sure.

However, when one has put themselves in a position where, ultimately, ANY list is going to raise suspicion and lurking it out also raises suspicion its a different bird.

(Yes, generally this is simply anti-town. This case I do not think as such. I'm not dressing this as a policy lynch. I'm calling a scum a scum)

[SpyreX]

I've got a question for the Zeetster:

Was the push for KScope MORE a function of thinking scope was scum or thinking Ben was town?

[SpyreX]

Its not for organizing lynches silly goose.

I don't even need to ask my better half about that.

2448 makes one go . When the time comes it will be dealt with. Too tired now.

As another nice aside - guess who was on earlier, hasn't given a list (or even blustered) but posted a decent wall somewhere else?

More mysteries for the universe.

[SpyreX]

Oddly enough... nope.

[SpyreX]

Although, now that you mention it he's been around too. Swish

[SpyreX]

SP? I think. One of the damn million "town" roleblockers running around.

[SpyreX]

Ohh snap is that EVERYONE that has provided a list finally?

I'm down with whatever you want to do as far as numbers - I think that, as the data is here, enterprising scum can do what we're afraid of anyways so the full list would be interesting to look at.

@Zito:

Somewhere in this madness I had a question for you. I'll dig it up again later if you don't find it before then.

[SpyreX]

Yea, that one Zeets.

[SpyreX]

It just seems to fit, what can I say.

Hmmmm.... ok.

[SpyreX]

Huh. That is interesting looking at it all in one place.

Kise coming up goose eggs is awesome? And confusing?

Seeing Sajin be the number one secondary wagon also seems really smoof.

[SpyreX]

Smoof. Like smooth, but smoofer.

Well, hells bells. I'm not sure what that DOES to things overall.

Unvote, Vote: Sajin

I'm still very tempted to go Dramonic route but six of one half dozen of the other.

[SpyreX]

So the same action on the same person the same night and you didn't question me about that? Just about the fact I'm dead.

I'm glad my mom/dad isn't a hermaphrodite

Lets get this party started.

[SpyreX]

Sajin today, Dramonic tomorrow. Eazy peazy lemon squeezy.

Duh.

SC you better make a GOOD zombie tonight. If we're going to defile the afterlife with a polygamous relationship I want a third partner.

[SpyreX]

DGB.

It was the reflective one, which apparently wasn't reflective enough.

[SpyreX]

@LF: Nope. 14 total.
@Ben: "Reflective" was its "color" - look back for my whole "some aren't colors" talk which ended with "don't use the white powder"

[SpyreX]

I was out of commission a couple days and it doesn't look like I missed much.

I'm still in favor of a Sajin lynch. The tomfoolery with the PM's isn't alignment-indicative (after mod clarification) and I still think he's scum.