MtG: Parallel Universe Mafia (SSK's Subgame): Game OVER!

[Sudai]

/confirm

[Sudai]

Any of you that haven't been following FL's and Tar's sub-games, I'd recommend that you do. They've both picked up very quickly and they both already have a good deal of information that may help us figure out the game mechanics more readily. It's also becoming more and more obvious that these three games will be ineracting more than previously expected (at least more than I expected.)

[Sudai]

It'd be nice if we can. The other two sub games are advancing fast and I'm guessing it'd be in our best interest to stay up to speed with them. Or at the very least it'll help to cure my boredom. :p

[Sudai]

There's always time for a Random Voting Stage on Day one :D

Quoted for truth. :D

Ben and DeeDee aren't even our problem as far as I'm concerned. Yes, The Games are linked, and Yes we all should be reading up on all of them, but Primarily we should be focusing on Scum in our own games and using the other games to research people that fall into our game.

This. As it stands, the other two games are purely for research right now. As it stands, neither game has touched us (that we know of) and we have yet to touch them so the best option is scum hunting in our universe.

That said, let the RVS begin~ :D

Vote: Starbuck

for trying to delay our start. >:[

[Sudai]

Hey, fools in SSK's game...

Hi. Welcome, finally.

It's good to finally be here. I've been stalking the three threads like a vulture waiting for my turn. D:

[Sudai]

Zakeri+Sudai are suspicious for wanting the RVS in a game that should have none.

I simply don't want to take the focus off of our game. I'm all for towns cooperating cross universe, but I also think we should get the ball moving a bit in our own. Any suggestions for that other than an RVS? Nothing said in the other games can really be used to go after anyone in our universe.


That said, I'll break down my opinions on both sub-games in 30-40 minutes. Family is sitting down for dinner now.

[Sudai]

FL's Universe Suspicions

Porkens is probably my prime suspect in FL's uni. On top of the shooting Mufasa thing, he essentially avoided answering Tajo's question.

So whats exactly the point in posting this in every post?

Please just think of it as part of my sig.

Even something as simple as "It's just my suggestion" would have been a more pro-town response.



DDD has essentially acted the exact opposite as Benmage has with his role. The lovers have claimed day talk so it seems strange to me that there would be such a clash between the two. DDD's reactions have also been rather scummy. That said, I want to see the lovers tested before any lynching occurs. Wasting a lynch is probably worse than what testing the lovers would waste if it's possible. If D2 rolls around and no one transported them, a lynch may be in order, but I don't think a D1 lynch would be the right idea when there's possibly other, more efficient ways of handling them.



I can understand Spy's reasoning for not wanting to follow the other threads (having my bouts of laziness myself), but I still feel that it is rather anti-town to do so. I'd like to see more from him.



I also want to see more from SocioPath.

---

I'm going to leave the Ben issue alone since I basically covered it with DDD earlier.



Budja seems to be lurking. I'm not going to call scum on lurking just yet since the games are fairly mature, but I'm just making note of it. The same goes for Chaos, Veerus, and Malt right now. Kairyuu gave a provable reason as to his lack of activity.



I have no idea what to think about Kinetic and Sajin.



Pyro is scummy for the many reasons stated already. No need to waste people's time reiterating them.


Mastin, I find you a bit anti-town right now since you don't back up your claims that much. You just kind of throw them out there and drop scummy keywords on people. I'd like to see more explanation from you in the future.

---

Ughh. Doing this is going to take forever if we do this the whole game. What if each universe simply came up with a list of the top scum candidates in their universe and near the end of the day we discuss them and interrogate as a multiverse?

[Sudai]

Ugh, that tiny text at the top read "FL's Universe Suspicions." I was trying to increase the size but did the opposite instead. I guess I should have hit preview first.

@Mod, Can you edit that to make it an appropriate size?

Also forgot to mark when I switched to Tar's game as opposed to FL's, but I separated them with a line so it's not hard to tell.

I also messed up my quotes. Gggaaahhh. Really should have previewed. x_x

[Sudai]

I have to V/LA starting now through Tuesday as my Grandfather was hospitalized and my family is driving up to Kansas to visit him. (We live in Louisiana, split the drive into two days.) I'm going to attempt to get on at an internet cafe to keep up, but I can't guarantee that. Sorry guys.

[Sudai]

So I'm in Kansas now. I can use the computer at my Grandfather's house since we're staying here and watching his house for him until he is released from the hospital. He's fine, luckily. He collapsed and was unconscious for a while, but the Doctors said it was just exhaustion. They want to keep him till Friday to make sure nothing's wrong though. I'm going to have to V/LA again on the Weekend to get back down to Louisiana, but that's a few days away, so I'll post about that when it happens.


As for stuff that happened while I was gone:

@Sudai - It's not RVS if you have a reason. I wasn't trying to delay the start more than the fact that it's summer and maybe our last person had some RL stuff going on, and might have not known that we were ready to start.

I just picked a name from the name list and then looked for a "reason" to have voted them to try to get a reaction that we could gauge.

Unvote

Enough has happened that I feel we can get some actual discussion going. I'm gonna get at that.


There's the obvious Head Honcho thing. I want to see if SSK starts trying to find a replacement for him before anything. Even so..his behavior has been extremely weird.

---

Boxman

So far in this game, you've only commented on other sub games or given small side remarks to agree with someone in this sub game. I'd like to see some of your opinions on our own sub game.

---

Chenhsi

I didn't realize that lynching someone in another game meant that we get 1 less chance to lynch scum in our own game

I'm curious as to why you would assume we could lynch another sub-game and still continue our day. A lynch typically ends the day in most games, doesn't it?

---

qwints

You've made no real contributions. You came in late but never made a comment about catching up. Your more recent post indicates that you're following the game, but you still haven't done anything other than suggest that multiple scum teams span the three games. Would you mind quoting the flavor text that led you to this conclusion and possibly explain why?

---

Zwet

You're assuming that the three sub games were developed by Tar. The only thing's I've seen to indicate this are the facts that Tar's sub game threads (sign up and actual game) started before the other two and the fact that Tar's game got player #s 1-12, we got #13-24, and FL's got #25-36. I may have missed a post that declared who the primary organizer of the game is, so could you either link that to me or explain why you assume Tar is the main organizer?

Also, this isn't a Bastard Mod game. Does Tar seriously have a tendency to do bastard mod things in non-bastard mod games?

Lastly, why do you think we can't lynch players in other sub games yet we can lynch mods? It seems to me that if one were possible, the other wouldn't be too far fetched.

I'm glad I checked the other sub games between typing this and posting this:

unvote vote SpryeX

(i just want to see if this will work...their games in the day phase)

It doesn't. - Tar

We can't vote for other sub games, but the questions still stands as you posted that prior to gaining this knowledge.

---

Zakeri

Anyone has an idea of why Benmage and DDD have safeclaims?

Why wouldn't they? Don't all non-town get Safeclaims?

I've seen plenty of games where non-town players don't get a safe claim. We've also only had two players claim to have a safe claim so far (Ben and DDD). Do you have a safe claim? Is that why you assume all non-town players will have a safe claim?

Why, if our attempted lynch at an outsider failed, would we no lynch by default? I thought that the day would just continue, and we would then lynch someone in our own game.

I would also like an answer for this. I assume that should we attempt to lynch outside of our game and it failed, we'd continue the day as well.

Vote: Zakeri

Despite there not being a lot of scummy things on you, you've currently the scummiest in the game, in my eyes.

---

People that need to do more because it's impossible to get a read with what they've posted

*Percy (Said he'll catch up within a few days. Waiting on that.)
*Starbuck (MafiaScum got blocked by his ISP somehow?)

@Mod: Can you prod semioldguy and Sideney? They've been inactive for a while. Head Honcho is also close to the 72 hour limit. Is it time for us to replace Mr. Big yet? He still hasn't been around.

To everyone:

I'm sorry for the wall of text. I don't like walls of text and I'm sure most people don't, but there were a number of things I wanted to cover since I'm able to right now.

[Sudai]

(1) We need to watch for selective scumhunting, because we have more than one scum faction.

What makes you think there's more than one scum faction in this subgame?

That said, I'm going to

vote: sudai

for his 'every universe compiles a list of their scummiest' idea.

I'd like to hear more from both Sudai and Honcho on this.
@Sudai: Why is this a good idea?
@Honcho: Why is this a bad idea? Why is this a scummy idea?

The "Scum list" was mostly in response to Mastin claiming that everyone should work together across the universes. I was under the impression that he wanted everyone to comment on everyone, essentially. I proposed the idea because if his plan went into effect, this would be a better, more efficient way to go about it as having 36 players post about 35 players while defending themselves at the same time would be...very painful.


Zwet, how can you have zero suspicion? I can understand not having enough to build a case, but there's surely enough to poke around and ask questions.

[Sudai]

@Whoot: Welcome to the game. Looking forward to the new perspective.

@Zwet: I agree we shouldn't completely ignore them, but you're yet to show any focus on our game at all.

[Sudai]

@Mufasa: Hi. :p

@Zwet: That's still not much at all. He's your primary suspect. Anything else?

@Qwints: I'm pretty sure the subtitles are the names of expansions for MtG. Yeah, just did a google search and I was right.

[Sudai]

I'm really not sure. It was Weatherlight by the time I saw it.

Just for reference, FL's game was "Kamigawa" and Tar's was "Time Spiral."

Tempest was also an expansion set name. Google confirmed.

[Sudai]

Chenhsi, all games are called "<gamename> Mafia (<mod>'s Subgame): <gamephase>" currently. Well, ours doesn't have colon between "(<mod>'s Subgame)" and "<gamephase>," but yeah.

It's possible that the mods are just trying to get organized with these changes to game name and subtitles. At least, that's what I think it is since they're all fairly uniformed now.

@Mod: Would it be possible to get a confirmation on this?

Yeah just trying to get organized.

The biggest thing I want to note about Tar's game moving to the day phase is that Kinetic is "In The Graveyard" while everyone else is in the "Exiled" category. Right now there's the lovers and someone who got modkilled. Anyone that's played MtG before knows there's a big difference between the two, I'm just not sure what it means for the three sub games yet.

[Sudai]

D'oh. I forgot to make sure the subtitles all followed the same format.

As for claiming what expansion our cards are from, I don't think there would be much to gain from doing so, but at the same time, it probably wouldn't hurt anything either.

@Boxman: I see. I still think we should keep an eye on where dead players go just in case we can glean something from that.

[Sudai]

I hadn't thought of a punisher role for expansion claims. This makes me like the idea less. I'm also not sure what qwints could mean by this, nor am I sure why he chose to exclude it when re-asked what information he was trying to pull out:

There are others, but I don't want to reveal them at the moment. I think the information may prove more useful than others think. I would like a reason for not doing so that goes beyond general policy zwet. How could this hurt town? (I may be missing something because I know less about MtG than you do.)

I've played MtG for years and there's really not much you could gain from knowing a card's expansion set. Other than the paragraph I quoted, it seems you just want to confirm something about the expansion sets used for the sub games. I can tell you right now that the expansion set that my card is from is -not- one of the ones used for our any sub game thus far. If what you claim to be after is really what you're after, that tidbit of info should be enough.



Sidenote: I hate not knowing much about Tar games. It opens a whole new meta for this game that I don't even know about. I guess I'm going to read some Tar games with my free time.

[Sudai]

@Qwints: I'm wondering what you're trying to find out now as well. Even hints at what you're trying to figure out would be better than not telling us at all.

@Zwet: Though we may not currently see the benefits, there may be some. I'm backing up the recommendation that no one should claim anything until we know more though.

@FL (or SSK if you know): Why did this mod kill not push the game into night phase? Curious as to if it was mod discretion or something else.

[Sudai]

@FL: Thanks. I haven't seen many modkills so I wasn't aware that was the standard.

[Sudai]

@Zwet: That hammer only policy hurts the town a good deal in my eyes. It gets disallows us to view your true voting patterns because I'm sure you'd like to lay down votes before a hammer. I also don't quite understand why you'd hold such a policy. Beyond that, you still haven't contributed much towards scum hunting.

You FoS's Honcho without any real reasoning. Then you vote Qwints for offering up an idea to get things rolling before you knew everything he hoped to gain from it. I'll agree that it's suspicious if he doesn't give us full explanations, but you jumped the gun a bit there.

Aside from that, all of your post either lacked substance, talk about your hammer policy, or give advice to the town without actually contributing anything. It seems to me that you're not only trying to get rid of the information we'd gain from your vote patters, but you're also trying to get rid of your scum-hunting patterns. Two of the biggest things used to hunt scum.

Vote: Zwets

[Sudai]

Oh, and V/LA until mid-day Sunday. Driving home from Kansas.

[Sudai]

Bah. I forgot the rule about us being able to talk at night because the thread was locked when I got back from V/LA. But for discussion.

Being new to this....
I am looking based on what is claimed and the actions that match his claimed name. I don't like his whole I am only going to hammer vote, and I don't believe that is a bullet proof townie thing to do.

I believe we have gained a good enough information for the hammer,

vote: Zwet

What?!

I thought it was a policy lynch to lynch claimed Vanilla Townies

Are you sure that's what your reason was? Look up at the quote above this one. It looks a bit different. I don't think there's any policy anywhere that says a quick lynch is good for a town in these kind of circumstances..

That said, zwet, after this game would you mind explaining the reasoning for why you acted the way you did as a bulletproiof and why you only hammer by policy? Those are two really intrigue me.

[Sudai]

I want more from Whoot. I want his rationale at the very least before we move on to anything else. After that though, I agree that we should look at Starbuck. Coasted through the day without a vote or even an FoS, much less a case.

[Sudai]

Whoot, why would you assume that a power role is the same as a VT? If you didn't know what it was, as you claim, why didn't you look it up? It's not hard.

I want to analyze the bandwagon from yesterday, but I'm going to do that later tonight. I just woke up and I feel kind of sick so I'm going back to sleep. I'll have that up sometime tonight or early tomorrow though.

[Sudai]

@Mod: Can we get a vote count?

Would probably be good to analyze both wagons at once since Whoot's already at L-2 so I'm going to wait till I get the vote count to make things easier on me.

@Zakeri, I never directed a question at you. That was Slicey.

Also, I know I wasn't asked, but I didn't believe Zwets claim upon initially reading it. Mostly because of how adamant he was about his anti-town metaplay and how backwards that is for a bullet proof. Despite that though, he was lynched by the time I read his claim so even if I did believe it that wouldn't have changed anything.

Btw, my vote is Whoot atm, but I don't want to put him at L-1 yet because I don't want another quicklynch like yesterday.

[Sudai]

I just got back from a long, unexpected V/LA. Suffice to say, I was at a party Friday night and some things happened that caused me to not get home until just now. I'm going to go sleep since I haven't had a comfortable bed in days. I'll catch up and post my thoughts later tonight or some time tomorrow.

Quoted from one of my other games. We were in night and the thread was locked at the time. Haven't been back to the boards since then. I just caught up though.

---

Slicey chopped up the first wagon for me but there were different things that I wanted to do with it.


First Lynch:
Zwetschenwasser(7):Boxman,Slicey,Percy,Zakeri,Sudai,Qwints,Whoot1234

Second Lynch:
Whoot1234(5):Boxman,chenhsi,Slicey,Starbuck,Shotty To The Body

Notes on this Lynch:
Zakeri voted before slicey, I said my vote would go right after this but I didn't want to push him to L-1, then Zakeri unvoted and then we start with Slicey again.


Okay, lets ignore Percy for now (confirmed Mafia, I'll get to him later).


Initial notes:
-Boxman is the first vote on both wagons.
-Zakeri got on both wagons near the middle (4/7 and 3/5 respectively) despite taking the vote off of Whoot to avoid another quick lynch.
-Slicey is on both as well.
-I'm on both near the middle.
-Whoot is dead, confirmed miller.
-Qwints changed games.


Mmkay.. I want to look at Boxman first.
He was eager to skip RVS in our thread and jumped straight onto the Benmage/DDD train despite it not pertaining to our game too heavily and even after agreeing to go through with RVS, he spent a lot of time posting about the other games. After that, a lot of his post don't contain real substance. He answers questions people ask but it isn't until he starts to put pressure on Whoot that he actively cotributes. That means he went through D1 with extremly little contribution to the town but he had 24 post (excluding the ones in confirmation stage). I'd call that active lurking.

When asked why he left his vote on Zwet from the begining without explination we get:

That was before the whole "only hammer" and "bulletproof claim" things.

Which is valid, however, earlier he had posted:

I had actually forgotten my vote was there until you mentioned it, but by then he'd already made me suspicious of him, so my vote stood.

This was his response to Hancho about why his vote had stayed on Zwet the whole time.

My question is, if he made you suspicious, and you didn't remember your vote was on him, why did you not think to unvote your RVS and then vote him? Surely you would have noticed that your vote was on him already in this case.

FoS: Boxman

---

Zakeri pulls a fairly neutral read from me in iso.

---

Slicey comes in and near instantly Meta-Clears Starbuck. Other than this, he looks fairly neutral to me, leaning slightly in favor of town so far.



Now to catch up aside from my promised bandwagon analysis.




Ugh, okay. I couldn't really glean much since everyone was just pressuring Whoot for reasons that I agree with. No deaths, no transfers. Didn't get much to work with from the night... ><

[Sudai]

Vote: Boxman

FoS'd him during my write up but I was expecting to find someone scummier than him. Just realized I didn't and that I didn't vote him during my write up. x.x

[Sudai]

Boxman, answer my question? It's obvious you read my analysis post since you asked why I didn't analyze Honcho or chenhsi. My question for reference:

My question is, if [Zwet] made you suspicious, and you didn't remember your vote was on him, why did you not think to unvote your RVS and then vote him? Surely you would have noticed that your vote was on him already in this case.

Also, to answer the question you asked me, I didn't go into either because both were fairly inactive during the time that I was inactive so I didn't see much from either so there was little information to pull from.

I see the points behind a Honcho lynch and I could be for that, but right now Boxman still looks scummier to me for reasons I already covered.

[Sudai]

Don't have time right now, but I'm leaving this here to remind myself to look over Zakeri and Honcho in iso once I get the chance.

[Sudai]

I'm here. I just haven't had any input. You guys were talking back and fourth a bunch and I haven't really seen any convincing points from either side.

[Sudai]

Sorry for not having my ISO analysis up yet. I haven't read any post since I posted that yet and I probably won't be until next Monday. Beginning of school is kicking my ass harder than I thought it would.

@Mod: Officially V/LA until Monday.

I'll read everything I missed and then put up my iso read on Boxman/Zakeri then, along with whatever I garner from catching up.

[Sudai]

School's just too much atm guys, sorry.

@mod: Requesting Replacement.

[Sudai]

I followed this game, it was a fun read. Not enough time on my hands to do the rereads that would be necessary to stay in. Kind of sad to see how Chanber went down, though. :[

N1 was super shitty for me. I had Percy shoot Starbuck and he got NK'd by the other Mafia. lol

At that point, I was under the impression I could no longer kill due to poor wording on SSK's part in my role PM. Then the day I replaced out, Tar sent me what my role PM should have said and I could have killed without Percy....hahaha. That explains why I didn't NK N2 at least. :/