MtG: Parallel Universe Mafia (SSK's Subgame): Game OVER!

[Slicey]

I HAMMER PEOPLE! I prefer not to vote unless I can hammer. You know that!

This is a piss poor excuse. Head Honcho had no votes on him. He was nowhere close to being hammered. You could have voted him, and if the votes started piling up, then you could have unvoted so you can hammer. You're using this as an excuse to make it look like you're scumhunting, although you actually aren't. Also seems like a weak bus attempt.

I don't plan on claiming anything. Like zwet said, Tar is famous for punisher roles, and we shouldn't claim ANYTHING unless it helps us find scum, which I doubt this will do.

[zwetschenwasser]

At the moment qwints is scummier.

[qwints]

Firstly, as was mentioned assuming a possibility of multiple scum groups it gives scum in this game an opportunity to actually be able to scumhunt. Secondly, townies should be looking at this and playing this as a small group game, I'm not going to say why, but townies should know why. Anything that distracts unduly from the people in this specific game is not a good idea, and I think focusing a bunch of attention and posts on the other games falls under that.

Sudai's idea stunk to me because it seemed like the most blatant attempt so far to try to move away from focusing on this subgame.

I don't think the other games should be ignored entirely, for instance I think once we have night flavor/actions it could be helpful to compare them to the other games to try to get a feel for setup, but as far as picking lynches I think it would do us well to keep the majority of analysis directed at people we can actually affect with votes.

HH is still scummy. This just further confirms my vote.

Expansions aren't really relevant to alignments, and if we do something like a mass expansion claim we could lose a lot of time arguing over something that's not particularly relevant to finding scum. Also, there is always the possibility that there are punisher roles that come into effect with expansion claims. I think you might be one of those punisher roles.

You're scared of a punisher role for a claim that's not even in the p.m.'s or "really relevant" to alignment? Tar is thorough but that seems over the top. If enough people (say 3 or 4) actively oppose the plan, then we can move on, but I think there remains information to be gained which could prove helpful. I think arguing over the claim could be quite useful to finding scum, not a waste of time.

[zwetschenwasser]

Don't try to outguess the mod, qwints. If you want me to stop suspecting you, please explain what benefit we can get from expansion claims.

[qwints]

I already did.

Zwet, I have a couple of reasons for asking for people's expansion. The main reason is to confirm a basic hypothesis about the set-up: each subgame started out with players from the named expansion. The second is to investigate the significance of the subtitle name change.

[zwetschenwasser]

How do either of those goals lead us to catching scum?

[qwints]

They don't directly (nice shifting goal posts there), but they do offer information to help interpret some of the game-swapping. There are a few ways that it might directly do so, but if I explain them here then they are unlikely to work.

[Slicey]

FL's subgame

Zazie is suspicious for not wanting the lovers to go into one game. She is even suggesting ending one of the games so they can't win. I have no idea why she would want to do that. The claim is so easily testable.

Mufasa also wanting to kill the lovers is suspect. Do you mean lynch them, which effectively wastes a lynch, or vig them?

Papa Zito also earns scum points for wanting to lynch DDD. Really don't like how's he pushing a lover lynch.

I believe Porken's 'If I were a vig, I'd shoot XXXXX" is a post restriction. He may not necessarily be a vig though.

ugh SpyreX is being so anti-town for not reading the other threads. My role has nothing to do with the other threads, yet I'm still reading them. It can help us catch scum in other games and it could in your game as well.

hmm... and now Porkens says that isn't a PR. Not sure if this makes him scum or not.

what the shit is this unbreakable alliance. this is utterly ridiculous. And Mufasa wanting to join it is highly suspect. I absolutely 100% disagree with this, considering Zito is kinda scummy. Yes, Spyre, scum could do this. I wouldn't be surprised if you're scum recruiting three townies to make yourself look better.

I agree with Yosarian2 about this absurd plan. I really hope it doesn't go through.

quagmire needs to post content. he has done literally nothing up to Page 7.

Spyre, why do you feel the people in your alliance are town if sociopath flips scum? Their alignment really has nothing to do with Socio's.

Alright, I was really confused about why this stupid alliance wanted to lynch Sociopath but now I understand (his issue's with Porkens' vig statement)

Spyre seems to be backing off a bit on this alliance. It's still incredibly anti-town and I hate it though.

aww yeah sociopath is awesome cuz he thinks the alliance is crap too. ^5. Really, really liked 231.

This Sociopath wagon is chock full of scum, consisting of Spyre and quagmire (whose done absolutely nothing at all).

Flava Flave is scummy as hell for his analysis post (259)

Finally finished. >_> This was a stream of consciousness kind of post, making observations as I'm reading. I believe the scum in FL's game are Spyre, Quagmire and Flava Flave.

Ugh, I hope I can finish Tar's game in time before I go. ;~;

[Sudai]

I hadn't thought of a punisher role for expansion claims. This makes me like the idea less. I'm also not sure what qwints could mean by this, nor am I sure why he chose to exclude it when re-asked what information he was trying to pull out:

There are others, but I don't want to reveal them at the moment. I think the information may prove more useful than others think. I would like a reason for not doing so that goes beyond general policy zwet. How could this hurt town? (I may be missing something because I know less about MtG than you do.)

I've played MtG for years and there's really not much you could gain from knowing a card's expansion set. Other than the paragraph I quoted, it seems you just want to confirm something about the expansion sets used for the sub games. I can tell you right now that the expansion set that my card is from is -not- one of the ones used for our any sub game thus far. If what you claim to be after is really what you're after, that tidbit of info should be enough.



Sidenote: I hate not knowing much about Tar games. It opens a whole new meta for this game that I don't even know about. I guess I'm going to read some Tar games with my free time.

[qwints]

Let me ask a simpler question. Is there anyone from an expansion other than the ones in the following list:

Weatherlight, Tempest, Stronghold, Exodus, Urza's Saga, Urza's Legacy,Urza's Destiny, Mercadian Masques, Nemesis, Prophecy, Invasion, Planeshift, Apocalypse?

[Slicey]

What do you hope to gain from that information?

[MafiaSSK]

The Second Vote Count (aka the "No-Name" Vote Count)

13) Sideney (0)
14) Qwints (1):Zwetschenwasser
15)Starbuck (0):
16) chenhsi(1):Zakeri
17) Whoot1234(0)
18) Zakeri(1):Sudai
19) Percy(0)
20) Slicey(0)
21) Sudai(1):Head_Honcho
22) Head_Honcho(1):Qwints
23) Boxman(0):
24)Zwetschenwasser(3):Boxman,Slicey,Percy

[Boxman]

^I think those expansions are the only ones from the Weatherlight Saga, our subgame.

I have no problem revealing that I am from one of those expansions.

[zwetschenwasser]

DON'T CLAIM EXPANSIONS! It does not help us whatsoever.

[Boxman]

@FL's game: Okay, that wasn't as bad as before. But seriously guys, stop talking about role PM setup and stuff.

[Sudai]

@Qwints: I'm wondering what you're trying to find out now as well. Even hints at what you're trying to figure out would be better than not telling us at all.

@Zwet: Though we may not currently see the benefits, there may be some. I'm backing up the recommendation that no one should claim anything until we know more though.

@FL (or SSK if you know): Why did this mod kill not push the game into night phase? Curious as to if it was mod discretion or something else.

[forbiddanlight]

@FL (or SSK if you know): Why did this mod kill not push the game into night phase? Curious as to if it was mod discretion or something else.

He was a neutral survivor. Third parties and scum modkills keep the game in day

[Slicey]

oh boo, I wish Spyre got modkilled instead of Yos. >_>

[Sudai]

@FL: Thanks. I haven't seen many modkills so I wasn't aware that was the standard.

[Tarhalindur]

oh boo, I wish Spyre got modkilled instead of Yos. >_>

You have no idea how close that came to happening. - Tar

[Slicey]

oh boo, I wish Spyre got modkilled instead of Yos. >_>

You have no idea how close that came to happening. - Tar

XD I was only saying that because I think Spyre is scum.

[Percy]

(1) We need to watch for selective scumhunting, because we have more than one scum faction.

What makes you think there's more than one scum faction in this subgame?

We may not have more than one

right now

. I was responding to Zakeri who said there was one scum team

per game

, which was also a dangerous assumption - we may have more or less than that. I think the rules (especially 21) and the nature of the setup strongly suggests that there is more than one "bad guy" team across the three games, but assuming there is exactly one in each game and none of them are connected to each other is not a good idea. Whilst Selective Scumhunting may not be an issue right now, it might become so in the future.

Note that three players were transferred after Tar's night. One player (DDD) was taken from FL's game into Tar's, Budja was moved into FL's from Tar's, and Papa Zito was moved into Tar's game from FL's.

It's not any worse an assumption than that there's one of three different mafia factions in every game, which under the current ruling means three mafia sourced nightkills per night per game. Just because there are rulings on how the mafia performs when sent into seperate games doesn't imply to me that they started out in seperate games.

OK, hold up. My point was that assumptions were bad, and we should avoid them. I'm not asking you to assume that we have three factions, even less that each can kill on each night in each game. I didn't even suggest that.

The "Scum list" was mostly in response to Mastin claiming that everyone should work together across the universes. I was under the impression that he wanted everyone to comment on everyone, essentially. I proposed the idea because if his plan went into effect, this would be a better, more efficient way to go about it as having 36 players post about 35 players while defending themselves at the same time would be...very painful.

I think any attempt to organise any comprehensive cross-game scumhunting is doomed to failure. How would this scum list be put together, for example? Instead of arguing about how to scumhunt, I suggest people just post their observations and we'll try to piece things together about other games later.

I am not new to mafia games and how they work.

Um, good?

at least it doesnt say in the rulez that you cant post in other subgames

@Mod: Is this true? Are we allowed to post in other games?

No, you can not. It is not a modkillable offense but you can still not do so.

Did our subtitle just change from tempest mafia to Weatherlight mafia?

The edit time on the first post makes this possible.

I thought we were Tempest to begin with...

@Mod: Were we originally Tempest?
Can you confirm whether this occured as the result of your mistake, or a game mechanic?

Mistake.

@Sudai: Tar typically has 2 sections of his graveyard: 1 for dead people and 1 for those modkilled/left the game. I assume that this is a similar mechanic.

Er,

Weatherlight had a strong theme of graveyard-related abilities. The set boasted more ways to retrieve cards from the graveyard than ever before, and other spells used the graveyard as a resource by removing cards in it from the game.

I used to play a bit of MtG, and things coming back from graveyards was a common mechanic. I agree with you that no-one in their right mind would res an SK, though.

Re: claiming;
Revealing secret information, any information at all, should only be used as a last resort. Whilst it may put the scum in a difficult position and we may be able to catch them later, we have no way of knowing what the scum can do with the information in the meantime. Massclaiming anything Day 1 is just a terrible idea, especially in a game as meticulously designed as this.
Yes, this is a policy position. However, the fact that you can't think of a way that it could hurt us is not an argument to actually do it.

The main reason is to confirm a basic hypothesis about the set-up: each subgame started out with players from the named expansion. The second is to investigate the significance of the subtitle name change.

Why would you want to confirm that first hypothesis now? How could that possibly help us?
Also, waiting on mod confirmation of the namechange.

FoS: qwints, Boxman, Sudai

.

as far as picking lynches I think it would do us well to keep the majority of analysis directed at people we can actually affect with votes.

QFT, but backtracking noted.

Zwet, have you got anything useful to say about HH? He is your "main suspect" after all. I'm guessing not. Vote stays.

@Mod: I voted zwetschenwasser in this post (81).

I agree with most of the observations made by Slicey in 132, but I don't get a good vibe from Yosarian2.

oh boo, I wish Spyre got modkilled instead of Yos. >_>

I think you mean Seraphim...?

[Head_Honcho]

jackassery noted, obviously there's a distinction between a wall of text saying what you do and don't like about every person in the other subgames and looking for flavor crossovers and such.

Zwet: If you are serious about a hammer only policy for the sake of your meta or something, that is going to get very old very quickly and I trust you can be convinced to abandon it.

I don't like qwints' defensiveness towards zwet for being skeptical about expansion claiming.

[chenhsi]

I think that claiming expansions is probably a bad idea. I don't think that it is scummy to want this either.

zwet's hammer only policy is surprising and new to me.

[Zakeri]

@Boxman 72: I think it's more of a scumtell to try and focus on the other games, since I think it's unlikely that there would be scumteams split across parallel universes right out of the starting gate.

Why would you think that?

because it would be normal :/

I had a long winded responce to this point, but it was already refuted by the following:

OK, hold up. My point was that assumptions were bad, and we should avoid them. I'm not asking you to assume that we have three factions, even less that each can kill on each night in each game. I didn't even suggest that.

I'll concede the point for now, but considering the number of NKs that went through in Tar's night one, I still doubt there's scum floating around in each other's games from the starting gate. It's getting harder for me to see Chenshi's earlier posting as malicious intent rather than aloofness, and I don't feel I'm getting anything more out of this vote.

Unvote: Chenshi

Qwints's recent attempt at rolefishing and trying to call it town even though at best it leads use into useless discussion and at worst it leads us to any number of anti-town or pro-scum things. I'm not really a big fan of it.

But, I actually feel that Zwet's Hammer Only policy is actually scummier. A lack of information provided by votes is much more dangerous to the town than I would think vague knowledge of roles that is likely irrelevant would help scum.

Vote: Zwetschenwasser