DHSDSM beta: Game Over.

[PoketheAlpaca]

Ok PF typing this up after talking to Tajo on aim so all our thoughts get listed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On another note:

I think more likely SK, but as long as you kill whoever we tell you to I think we'll be better off keeping you alive for now.

Unvote, vote Zaphod

. Something still feels off to me about DGB's play here, and it's more than being generally bummed.

Note: any player who's next post isn't counterclaiming Sens has effectively said he won't be.

-RR

This post is actually incorrect, because sex w/ shafted's wife club later makes the point that we don't really need a vig/SK to make extra kills because we can make as many lynches as we like as long as we don't post too much to do it. However, the fact RW was happy to let a claimed vig/SK live very strongly suggests to me he is town. Scum do

not

want extra killing roles alive.

We disagree with your opinion here. Both town and scum could want to keep a claimed Vig alive. That way the "vig" would kill people for them
* Scum would want "Vig" to wipe out town. Direct the "vig" to kill other townies
* Town would want "Vig" to kill scum
It is a null tell. If RW is town they clearly did not realize Town has infinite lynches and wouldn't need to direct the vig.

PokeAlpaca: Post in your hydra account! Your last official post was April 28. In that post you thought DGB Hoopla was scummy. Based on your PbPa I assume you meant Zaphod (DGB-Plum), but you really need to clarify and elaborate your position on those two separate hydras. I also want to know if both of your heads agree or disagree on this stance.

Yes accidently did some hydra confusion there. Though since those posts we have discussed and reached an opinion together. We think Zaphod is scum. They have agreedwith others/wagon jumped at times convienant to when others have been pressuring them. Trotsky or RW pressures them and they are in with a vote and post right after it. Its like they are running scared trying to grasp onto anything to stay a float.

Plums recent post has actual content but the A&B wagon has ended with A&B dead. Saying you find A&B scummy now does absolutly nothing. Its just a pathetic attempt to look like everybody else. "Oh look at me I'm catching up and I found A&B scummy too! We're just like the rest of the town, I swear!" Then you should have said that earlier when it mattered not wasted the threads times/posts with it now!

We're also certain Orto hoops is scum. Any player can lynch an SK. What we believe makes them scum is their general hypocritical attack on A&B. Followed by a jump onto a wagon they originally saw as oportunistic.

At the moment, the PokeTheAlpaca wagon looks

very

opportunistic. Of the people on the wagon, A&B's vote stands out the most as a cheap way to jump on, especially when they were yet to post content. Kscope's meta suggests all is fine for him jumping on too, but I still don't like the baseless entry.

I'm going to Vote: Apples and Bananas on a gut read.

My main point is I don't think scum would blatantly draw attention to themself in such an obvious way - or rather, I don't think those spam posts were intentionally made to waste posts, when a recharge target is so far off. There is little to no scum motivation behind it.

In fact I'd suggest scum would more likely be the players most wary of this infraction. It's a simple way for them to sit back early and jump on someone for fluff posting, knowing that the town is paranoid of this. And, I think A&B is most guilty of this crime.

Now, addressing your post more specifically; every time you generate suspicion on someone,

you're basing it on the thought that scum are more likely to do x than town.

The way you come to the conclusion I'm scum, is on the basis of this logic. It's simple - I think scum are more likely to avoid fluff posting early on, and take the opposite stance.

It's an easy way to force suspicion on players - they're preying on the paranoia of the town. I don't think scum would be stupid enough to come in and make fluff posts to start the game. Why would they want the early attention when they don't even know how hasty the town is going to be with post wasting? It's a stupid risk to jump in the limelight like that, and it's even stupider to not be aware that fluff posts would put them under pressure.

This is why I think scum would take the stance of jumping on

anything

that could be interpretted as a slight waste.

I don't get this either. Part of the case being expressed on A&B is their posting wasn't really adding much to the game. Saying Scum wouldn't do it because they'd get attacked for being scummy is stupid. Scum are more likly to be scummy. If scum were never scummy, how would we catch them? You sound like you want to attack those that conserve posts and you don't certainly seem to be doing or voting for that. Like you're being a hypocrite.

If Incamnito was any more town, my eyes would implode.

I know what you're saying about A&B, but for these hydras I do not have yet enough information to get a read, and I'm confident I will be able to get a read eventually.

With the Swine Flu going around... this is definitely a lurker I want to rattle.

vote: Death the Hogfather

*DGB*

If you don't have a read, don't post and or waste your vote.

Random stage over.

Unvote: Trotsky

To quote Frog Dodging, MAJOR HYPOCRISY ALERT.

No its called learning from your mistakes and suggesting others do the same. Did you or did you not start off bantering and then start posting otherwise?
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53#1641253
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 34#1642534
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 47#1642847
Cause you did! And if you are going to condemn us then you must codemn your own play. You should be blaming yourself for doing what you now say is wrong!

We are willing to lynch both Zaphod and ortohoops. Willing to run them up asap.

Vote:Ortohoops

@Frogdodge, you mention trotsky and ZMD briefly in posts 137 & 138. You say they can be reasonably scum in that grouping but you don't go into detail exclusivly on Trotsky and ZMD. Why do you believe they could be scum?

[J-Scope]

Mod: Incamnito needs a good prod too.

PTA is extremely scummy. His first two posts are ok but when you get to page 2 he starts to get really scummy.

You need to explain a few things:

1. Did the head that write post 58 also write 149? If so, why the hypocrisy?
If not, see questions 2 and 3.

2A. Were your 2 heads in disagreement when you called the PtA wagon opportunistic in post 58?
2B. Did the head that wrote 58 talk with the other head before writing that post?

3A. Are your 2 heads still in disagreement over the PtA wagon when you wrote post 149?
3B. Did the head that wrote 149 talk with the other head before writing that post?

Post 50 is PBPA. I usually find these completely useless and irritating to read when they're done without quotes. I additionally dislike this post because it's mostly IIoA- largely a description of the posts rather than analysis or an expression of an attitude towards the relevant players.

Yes I think it is largely IIoA too. On one hand there hasn’t been many people to analyze those posts and they were early posts that did not say much. On the other hand, if you are going to give something the town already knows, you are not scumhunting. It is a very weak post that does not explain how the reads got made.

He doesn't take a strong stand on anyone and fails to change his vote from the random phase,

which is ironic because it's still on Trotsky, the very player he criticised someone else (Zaphod) for voting in his PBPA.

Can you re-phrase the bolded part of this sentence? I'm not sure I know what posts your talking about.

Saying you find A&B scummy now does absolutly nothing. Its just a pathetic attempt to look like everybody else.

I agree that it does nothing to help them or the relevant discussion but I don't think it's a scumtell. The whole post looks like a big stream of consciousness to catch up to the present, like the catchup post of someone who replaced in.

They have agreedwith others/wagon jumped at times convienant to when others have been pressuring them.

Why don’t you think DGB would do this as town? I think she’s normally a free voter. The first six posts were a little extreme; some had a joking attitude or the intention of prodding a lurker, but none looked like they were trying to hide the fact that they were jumping on a person. I think it’s probably just a personality of the players, not the alignment.

[Saunt Adelaus]

Incamnito has been prodded.

[Saunt Adelaus]

Start of Day 2

~~~

Votecount:

not voting:

13

:Death the Hogfather, Frog Dodging, Incamnito, J-Scope, Ortohoops, Pesco-Light, PoketheAlpaca, Raging Wishbone, sex w/ shafteds wife club, Trotsky, Yosariwen, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Zmd

while 13 players are alive, 7 votes will lynch

[Ortohoops]

We disagree with your opinion here. Both town and scum could want to keep a claimed Vig alive. That way the "vig" would kill people for them
* Scum would want "Vig" to wipe out town. Direct the "vig" to kill other townies
* Town would want "Vig" to kill scum
It is a null tell. If RW is town they clearly did not realize Town has infinite lynches and wouldn't need to direct the vig.

Respectfully disagree. Cross-kills (or additional, town-directed kills) = another way for scum to die. By eliminating another killing group scum substantially lower their probability of dying. This is also with the hindsight he actually was an SK- he still could have been a vig at that time. Are you actually suggesting scum are happy to leave potential vigs alive? It's not a sure town-tell but it's a strong one in this case.

No its called learning from your mistakes and suggesting others do the same. Did you or did you not start off bantering and then start posting otherwise?
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53#1641253
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 34#1642534
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 47#1642847
Cause you did! And if you are going to condemn us then you must codemn your own play. You should be blaming yourself for doing what you now say is wrong!

A grand total of zero of those posts were made by me (ortolan), as evidenced by the purple writing. Furthermore, only the first was really potentially describable as a proper "fluff post"- the next two were responses to the first being called a "fluff post" (this is how we get into unfortunate WIFOM in these post/word-limited games about who the actual cause of the post-wasting is). And it was kind of a fair if not well thought-out comment. Although I didn't consult with Hoops prior to her saying that; I didn't actually think

I

'd played with you before; as I'd forgotten we'd both been in Explosive Mafia.

I will make it clear at this point that I (ortolan), as I said in my previous post had largely been neglecting this game in favour of Alpha, which is actually time-dependent. Hoops had I think made all our posts in this game before the previous. When I got prodded I had to make a post, and she wasn't around to consult with. So the last post is mine, and some of it contradicts what she said (I still haven't spoken with her). If she objects I will simply have to convince her that PTA is obv-scum

But, I am aware that some of what "we" have posted in this game may be construed as fluff, which was why I was willing to forgive it from the other hydras, in the early game, up to a point. However PTA's constant diatribes about "fluff posting" become beyond hypocritical when they make not one but two

completely

useless posts on page 2, followed by a scummy PBPA. Of course then comes the unprompted unvote, and now a contrived OMGUS.

The above should also serve as a comprehensive reply to J-Scope as far as I'm aware.

Yes accidently did some hydra confusion there. Though since those posts we have discussed and reached an opinion together.

We think Zaphod is scum. They have agreedwith others/wagon jumped at times convienant to when others have been pressuring them.

Trotsky or RW pressures them and they are in with a vote and post right after it. Its like they are running scared trying to grasp onto anything to stay a float.

Plums recent post has actual content but the A&B wagon has ended with A&B dead. Saying you find A&B scummy now does absolutly nothing. Its just a pathetic attempt to look like everybody else. "Oh look at me I'm catching up and I found A&B scummy too! We're just like the rest of the town, I swear!" Then you should have said that earlier when it mattered not wasted the threads times/posts with it now!

Your case on Zaphod, quite frankly, sucks. It seems to be based on the idea that not voting scum = scum. However we know this is not the case when A&B is a flipped SK. It also contains an extremely vague and unsubstantiated assertion about their overall playing style (bolded), and another (hypocritical) reference to "time/post" wasting.

Vote: PokeTheAlpaca

[J-Scope]

However PTA's constant diatribes about "fluff posting" become beyond hypocritical when they make not one but two completely useless posts on page 2, followed by a scummy PBPA.

Well, let us know if Hoops agrees with this statement or not.

[Incamnito]

I'm here. camn's having computer issues at home and can only post from school. So I might be doing the posting for awhile.

I did a read of the game, and I've compiled a list of the people I would

NOT

consider lynching today:

-~- Yosariwen - feels town to me especially in post 74. This is mostly a gut read, but yeah, I really have no issues with Yosarian2's posting so far.

-~- J-Scope - a lot of his thoughts have seemed to match mine particularly Post #130 where he criticizes A&B for submitting the kill when he seemed to only make that one catch-up post and hadn't been involved in the game during real time. That just feels like a pro-town perspective to me.

-~- sex with shaft.ed's wife club - just liking a lot of what he's said so far.

-~- Raging Wishbone - just finished playing with RR in Boost Mafia, and he feels extremely similar to the town player that I played with in there.

-~- Zaphod Beeblebrox - frustration is a town-tell, IMO.

Obviously that would leave a pool of 5 players to lynch from, and I DON'T feel confident that the pool of 5 players absolutely positively has the scum in it which means that at least one or two of you in the above list probably have been fooling me so far. Bastards.

---

As for the rest of the players, Hoopla's posts have been lengthy but when I read through them, I feel like they're mostly informational instead of them taking an attempt to really analyze players. ortolan's posts feel a bit more pro-town to me, especially his recent attack on PoketheAlpaca, but I'm just wondering if maybe ortolan is good scum while Hoopla isn't. I'll need to meta ortolan.

Neither PokerFace nor populartajo have felt very town to me, and I feel like I have a fairly good understanding of their playstyles as I've played with both of them in past games before. I actually think the PoketheAlpaca wagon is a good one, therefore I will

vote: PoketheAlpaca

Zmd hasn't done much of anything.

Major FoS: Zmd

Get into the game or get replaced. Simple as that.

I'd like some more content from the Kison/springlullaby hydra.

I have almost no read on Trotsky and Death the Hogfather.

I need to discuss some stuff with camn about Frog Dodging.

I feel like the Apples and Banana wagon and the actions around it might be a good one to look into even if it didn't end up lynching group scum. I'll probably take some time to do that when I get some time to later. For now, I'm comfortable leaving my vote where it is.

- Incog

[Plum]

Actually it was RR who posted suspicions of you and it'ts me who wants to confirm you town. I kinda just wanted to see how you responded... Can I ask you an ethics question, would you feel comfortable winning as scum after DGB's post?

It reeks of scum glee at having found vig/sk:
a) shows less than passing concern for AB's alignment
b) the way he ask for Zaphod's kill looks like scum seeing a great opportunity at augmenting the bodies count

I agree, it feels definitely off.

FOS: Trotsky

. My top suspect remains PoketheAlpaca, however.

Post 50 is PBPA. I usually find these completely useless and irritating to read when they're done without quotes. I additionally dislike this post because it's mostly IIoA- largely a description of the posts rather than analysis or an expression of an attitude towards the relevant players. Additionally, he fails to reach any meaningful conclusion

This was part of what I was getting at in my suspicions of PoketheAlpaca. Asked for content, gives not really. I also dislike their attack on Ortohoops, to some degree, anyway. I explained why their vote on A&B was

not

hypocritical.

I don't get this either. Part of the case being expressed on A&B is their posting wasn't really adding much to the game. Saying Scum wouldn't do it because they'd get attacked for being scummy is stupid. Scum are more likly to be scummy. If scum were never scummy, how would we catch them? You sound like you want to attack those that conserve posts and you don't certainly seem to be doing or voting for that. Like you're being a hypocrite.

No, Ortohoops seems to want to attack those who immediately jump on those not being extremely conservative with posts.

If DGB is frustrated and/or wants to quit the site, that's her business. I would feel comfortable winning as scum so long as I didn't use that post of hers as some sort of excuse or explanation for why I couldn't be scum, and I played the game for my hydra and alignment as best I could. It would be stupid of you to try to use that to

confirm

me town anyway. That's hypothetical and irrelevent, though, because I don't happen to be scum.

Plums recent post has actual content but the A&B wagon has ended with A&B dead. Saying you find A&B scummy now does absolutly nothing. Its just a pathetic attempt to look like everybody else. "Oh look at me I'm catching up and I found A&B scummy too! We're just like the rest of the town, I swear!" Then you should have said that earlier when it mattered not wasted the threads times/posts with it now!

I told you that I had been busy and had let DGB fill most of our collective duties here, and I apologized for not being about too much. I felt I wed it to the game to do a complete, thorough reread, and saw no reason not to offer it up to everyone. I had to really get into this game and this was the best way I saw to do it. I do realize that not everything in my last post was still entirely relevent, but I think that it was a decent option, overall. If you can explain why it was more likely that I'm scum trying to look town than town/anyone trying to really catch up in the game and be open about all my thoughts on what's happened . . . I don't see a compelling reason for you to not be treating it as a nulltell.

This is why I think scum would take the stance of jumping on

anything

that could be interpretted as a slight waste.

Additionally, I

did

note more than just suspicions of Apples and Banana. I don't see the argument that the post was a complete waste.

If you don't have a read, don't post and or waste your vote.

Random stage over.

Unvote: Trotsky

You felt the need to make this point and yet you yourself didn't have a suspect to put your vote on at least semi-seriously. At least DGB was poking the lurkers; I'd say there's some value in that.

Vote: PoketheAlpaca

More later; am being kicked off the computer.

[J-Scope]

Actually, I want to poke the alpaca too. Their last post was not the type of post I'd expect from town that is sorry about lurking and fluffing around. They did not elaborate on their suspects; their priority was to throw the suspicion on first and foremost. I want to see better explanations than what they gave if they are already calling for Zaphod and Orto quick lynches.

I also think that Tajo's voice is lacking in that post and he needs to defend his fluff more than PF does for him.

Also, why is Orto a better choice than Zaphod, PtA?

Vote: PoketheAlpaca

[populartajo]

So this is the current situation. I though these games would be fun and such but I a)really really hate the situation of changing acounts to post b)a big part of my scumhunting powers was to use meta on people I know but sometimes this hydra situation wont let me eavluate who is posting what and c)as much as I like playing with PF, I really do feel like I have a double responsiblity since PF has much more experience than me and I dont like screwing things around. Its also pretty clear that we have different ideas of the game. For reference, PF was kinda angry that I posted "Ill catch up soon, I promisse" since it would obv put us in the hot seat and I didnt think it very well. He is totally right.

People that know me usually know that Im more verbal and such but Im really not feeling comfortable and it sucks to be voted for this. PF is being ext nice with me and I owe him. In this post, Ill try to answer every accusation you have given to me and this PoketheAlpaca account. I promisse I at least will catch a scum in this nonoptymal but understandable wagon.

PoketheAlpaca: No votes in the game besides the random ones. First actual scumhunt-related point comes in his Post 4, and it's not discussed in much depth, either. Next post is longer and ostensibly more substantial, but all we come out with is "Oh, not much to discuss except I have a few under-explained vibes".

Vote: PoketheAlpaca

If Im right, post 4 is a post by me. I agree these posts dont ahve a lot of analysis but come on its page 4. People are being ext careful with wath they say (the posting rate is an indicator of this) and the things I shared were feelings that I got at the moment. After all, those are my opinions and are a good start for get into the game.

PTA is extremely scummy. His first two posts are ok but when you get to page 2 he starts to get really scummy.

Post 28- contentless.

Post 46 is alright, but 48 on the same page is again, totally contentless, after he's already come under fire multiple times for making useless posts.

Post 50 is PBPA. I usually find these completely useless and irritating to read when they're done without quotes. I additionally dislike this post because it's mostly IIoA- largely a description of the posts rather than analysis or an expression of an attitude towards the relevant players. Additionally, he fails to reach any meaningful conclusion, saying

So we are getting a lot of shit again for my PBPA. Dude, those are my thoughts. You are free to dislike them but this situation proves that besides ApplesandBananas and our case, people are being ext careful with what they say and the reigning analysis in the thread is the shit my PBPA is achieving. My reads are there and as you and many here know, I scumhunt by POE and gut. If my gut tells me no one is being scummy then Im not going to look for scummy reasons to attack someone I dont think is scum.

The case that scum would post senseless stuff is weak since its pretty clear that for obvious reasons, scum will avoid this to gather unnecessary attention.

I admit, this was a mistake and PF is angry at me and he is right. But call us scum for doing that is weak and lazy scumhunting.

But, I am aware that some of what "we" have posted in this game may be construed as fluff, which was why I was willing to forgive it from the other hydras, in the early game, up to a point. However PTA's constant diatribes about "fluff posting" become beyond hypocritical when they make not one but two completely useless posts on page 2, followed by a scummy PBPA. Of course then comes the unprompted unvote, and now a contrived OMGUS.

Its not hypocritical since PF was the one doing posting that and Im the one with the wasteless posts. And its not OMGUS. Its you going against an easy target and the reasons Poker provided before. Its hard to prove you are scum when we (specially me) have been inherently scummy but at least we are going to fight to see how hard you can push and how bad you will look when we come up town.

Neither PokerFace nor populartajo have felt very town to me, and I feel like I have a fairly good understanding of their playstyles as I've played with both of them in past games before. I actually think the PoketheAlpaca wagon is a good one, therefore I will

vote: PoketheAlpaca

Yep, thats totally my fault. Ive neglected both games like shit and Im dissapointed with myself. Although why doesnt Pokerface feel town to you?

Actually, I want to poke the alpaca too. Their last post was not the type of post I'd expect from town that is sorry about lurking and fluffing around. They did not elaborate on their suspects; their priority was to throw the suspicion on first and foremost. I want to see better explanations than what they gave if they are already calling for Zaphod and Orto quick lynches.

I also think that Tajo's voice is lacking in that post and he needs to defend his fluff more than PF does for him.

Also, why is Orto a better choice than Zaphod, PtA?

Vote: PoketheAlpaca

The problem was that I put PF in a shitty position and thats why he that was the charged to post yesterday didnt have the obligation to apologize for me. And I understand him. And I understand your vote.

Now, onto scumhunting mode.

Post 7 in "only post from this user" mod is a big attack against PoketheAlpaca. It reeks as a prepared attack, like waiting for Zaphod to do it (This either tells us that Orto is more prob scum than Zaphod if both are not scum). I know ortolan and I know what he is capable of. He is attacking us for being useless when as I already stated, everyone was being useless and the only thing I was trying to do is get a decent start in the game in page 4. Disagreeing with me doesnt make me scum.

Post 50 is PBPA. I usually find these completely useless and irritating to read when they're done without quotes. I additionally dislike this post because it's mostly IIoA- largely a description of the posts rather than analysis or an expression of an attitude towards the relevant players. Additionally, he fails to reach any meaningful conclusion, saying

A big part of Orto's case is that he thinks our posts are useless and irritating. He dislikes my posts, even when they are not IIoA since I shared who was prob town with all the little that had been discussed. Again, disliking someone post style is not indicative of alignment as Orto wants to point.

So his scummiest is us with a "slight scummy vibe" (which is not well explained by his above PBPA ~edit: it seems he confused the two hydras Zaphod and Ortohoops).

Yes, this should give you an idea of how non motivated Im in these games.

He doesn't take a strong stand on anyone and fails to change his vote from the random phase, which is ironic because it's still on Trotsky, the very player he criticised someone else (Zaphod) for voting in his PBPA.

I did. In page 4, I didnt feel anyone was inherently scummy besides the comments I provided. PF randomly voted Trotsky. Not me. You wanted me to find scum in page 4 with the obvious problem this game have?
Everyone is too worried to not post more than they should. And this is a problem that its killing me since I usually like to share my thought as soon as I can and I feel really like pressured to not post and I dont like this at all. /end rant.

To quote Frog Dodging, MAJOR HYPOCRISY ALERT.

PF was the one to post that. Not me. Im the useless one in the hydra. Try again.

We apologise, we will vote the post-wasting scum now.
Unvote
Vote: PokeTheAlpaca

Yes, you found your easy target. I know you cant think ahead the box, ort, do you really think that scum is in the group of people posting shit like me (being demotivated and such) or is in the group that is aparently trying to save space by posting walloposts and saying that our posts are wasteless pieces of crap?

[J-Scope]

a)really really hate the situation of changing acounts to post

I don’t think there is a penalty for posting in your main account, so perhaps it’s not a big deal but the idea is to communicate with your teammate. (obviously I’m failing at that myself, but c'est la vie.)

Mod: Is there a penalty for continual posting in one’s regular account?

b)a big part of my scumhunting powers was to use meta on people I know but sometimes this hydra situation wont let me eavluate who is posting what

How many people could you meta here? How would you give equal attention to the people you didn't know? For instance, I don’t think I know you well enough or you me.

My reads are there and as you and many here know, I scumhunt by POE and gut.

What’s POE?

[Incamnito]

Yep, thats totally my fault. Ive neglected both games like shit and Im dissapointed with myself. Although why doesnt Pokerface feel town to you?

The one time I've played with PokerFace was in Mini 594 - Satin Doll Showdown, and I just remember his posts being rather insightful where he seemed to point out things that may have not occurred to me offhand. I also just found myself agreeing with his suspicions more. In this game, I haven't really felt either one of these things as of yet with the possible exception of agreeing a bit with his Ortohoops-hate.

I know ortolan and I know what he is capable of. He is attacking us for being useless when as I already stated, everyone was being useless and the only thing I was trying to do is get a decent start in the game in page 4. Disagreeing with me doesnt make me scum.

Capable of as town or as scum? Feel free to elaborate further on your ortolan meta.

- Incog

[Adel]

Mod: Is there a penalty for continual posting in one’s regular account?

no such penalty appears in the rule-set. Depending upon what I learn from the post-game my next hydra game may have a penalty in my next game. Votes and unvotes have to be posted from your hydra, but y'all already knew that.

[Kairyuu]

Many apologies, guys. Seraphim and I have requested replacement. It seems like every time one of us comes off of V/LA, the other one goes on. Communication between us is just not happening at any decent rate.

[whoami8]

OK first of all, sorry guys for not posting much. I'm really having trouble with this game mechanic. I like posting quick replies to peoplw when things catch my eye, but in trying to conserve posts I end up putting the posts off until it takes me much longer to get a post up. I've also been pretty busy in RL, which has made getting a substantial post up more difficult.

Earlier in the game I was under the impression that scum might take advantage of the game mechanic as an excuse to lurk, but now that I've been not posting for a significant duration (and it seems many others are having this same problem) I'm not sure this is a valid tell or not.

The Trotsky/ A&B interactions are a bit off as Kinglullaby pointed out. I'm not sure I'm buying Trotsky's defense that he thought A&B was mafia protecting a scumbuddy. Why would mafia claim vig/SK outing themselves to a killing role?

Don't understand why Kirayuu requires input from his hydra before posting. I realize you want to conserve posts but you seem to be able to post in other mafia games all by your lonesome. Even weirder that he's feinding worry about placing a vote during a phase where votes cannot be placed and no other players have votes on them even if they could. Possibly faked concern here.

Frog Dodging's reaction to imminent death is pro-town.

PtA attacking Ortohoops for lack of content was amusing. Pot meet kettle.

PtA's further point about scum wanting to keep a vig alive is wrong IMHO. If the "vig" is killing by majority rule the scum have less influence over their actions. Mafia's biggest threat is a few lucky pot shots by an alternate killing role really. I can link to multiple recent games to support this if you want me to (but Amnesia Mafia and Silent Mafia, off the top of my head).

PtA is self contradicting with his long post saying they think Zaphod is scum, rather strongly, but landing a vote elsewhere. Also interesting that PtA's attacking Ortohoops for being hypocritical is itself hypocritical. Would you mind self voting?

Agree with J-Scopes post that a lot of PtA's proposed scum tells against Zaph are null.

Not really liking Orto's defense that "my hydra partner did it!" in regards to the three fluff posts PtA pointed out. You and your hydra are the same player in this game. That's a BS defense. I do agree however that some of those "fluff posts" were direct replies to questions asked by other players.

Incanm's scum list post feels townish to me. Agree with most of it. Not sure why they're singling out Zmd as a lurker though worthy of a FoS. It seems they could have picked from a rather long list of lurkers (which they pointed out).

Not getting much of a read off of Plum's post.

Agree with J-Scopes extension of the PtA case that his primary objective with his last post was a simple "fling out some suspicion."

Not liking Tajo's apologetic tone towards his hydra partner. A lot of talk about putting PF in a shitty position and using this to explain the PtA cases against Zaph and Ortohoops. Attributes his scumminess to lack of motivation. Interesting that he says "now into scum hunting mode" and goes on to primarily post defensively in reply to Ortohoops' case. So his case against Ortohoops now consists of "I'm an easy target." So why aren't you pointing that out for J-Scope and Incamn, they're also voting for you. I also don't like that Tajo didn't respond to any other players currently posting. Final defense in that post is that scum wouldn't "post shit" yet this was PF's primary attack against Ortohoops. The dissonance is painful.

At this point I'm not liking Trotsky or PtA. I'd like more pressure on the former, but have a clearer read on the latter. So let's do both, we've got all they lynches we want.

vote: PoketheAlpace

And more posting from everyone please. I know I'm not one to talk, but right now J-Scope, Orto, and Incamn seem to be the only people contributing a whole lot.

[Raging Wishbone]

Sorry all, me and RR are also trying to keep up with this game, but we are consumed by another game right now.... I think PoketheAlpace is a bad lynch!

@Pokethealpace - Yeah agreed, we have been pushing this point of "infinite lynches", theoritcally speaking at least. Although I'm not sure why this matters at this point, considering we "all" made the right call and lynched an SK.... All we have to worry about now is the three man "team" scum team.

@Plum - Fair enough, again I kinda just wanted to get your thoughts and I did not mean I wanted to literally "confirm" you as town. I really just wanted to hear your response to my question.

Alpha should be over tomorrow by midnight, so I will do a reread and try to post further thoughts at the end of the week if not sooner. The reason, I think this post is important is again because I think Pokethealpace is a BAD lynch and I am responding to questions asked...

[nyballosulgniirkps]

Replacing in has been overwhelming and since this game is not time-critical, it has been put off. I've also had very little contact with Springlullaby lately, but have decided to move ahead. Apologies.

- I completely agree that anyone posting nothing but fluff needs to die, especially this late in the game. I don't think the same holds true to the same degree when it comes to lurking in this game - I think the format, which stresses making every post count, will inevitably encourage it. Knowing that I have to make a post heavy with content is part of what is invoking procrastination from me. That does not necessarily excuse it when done excessively, but it is something to keep in mind.

@Incamnito: "I need to discuss some stuff with camn about Frog Dodging." - what has this yielded? FD has given me the strongest town vibes, especially in light of their near death experience, so I am interested to hear your reasons for not including them on your list of people who you would not consider lynching.

Lurking=bad, especally if it slows the game to a halt.

You have not posted in 11 days. Where are you? (granted I like what little you have provided)

We disagree with your opinion here. Both town and scum could want to keep a claimed Vig alive. That way the "vig" would kill people for them
* Scum would want "Vig" to wipe out town. Direct the "vig" to kill other townies
* Town would want "Vig" to kill scum
It is a null tell. If RW is town they clearly did not realize Town has infinite lynches and wouldn't need to direct the vig.

My reaction to RagingWishbone's unvote was the same as Ortohoops' - the reason is that town would be more likely to consider the possible benefits of that claim being legit, and utilizing the kill of the vigilante without realizing that they already possess the potential to make up for it themselves with their limitless lynches. While it's only in the benefit of the SK to kill town,

both

serial killers and vigilantes *want* to kill scum. The more likely to give off the knee-jerk reaction of unvoting would be town.

Yes accidently did some hydra confusion there. Though since those posts we have discussed and reached an opinion together. We think Zaphod is scum. They have agreedwith others/wagon jumped at times convienant to when others have been pressuring them. Trotsky or RW pressures them and they are in with a vote and post right after it. Its like they are running scared trying to grasp onto anything to stay a float.

I think that's a bit of a stretch. Zaphod stated in their post prior to voting that they would be doing so if Apples and Banana's claim was 'unsatisfactory'. Additionally, Trotsky/Raging Wishbone never pressured them into voting A&B but voted for a lack of erratic behavior from DGB.

Aside from one of the other contentless posters, I'm not really seeing a great alternative to PokeTheAlpaca - he was one of the fluffers early on and his main comeback so far has been trying to justify the use of those useless posts and igniting a weak case on Zaphod. I'm counting five votes on the wagon. I'm willing to wait a bit to hear what Wishbone has to say - I also need to see if I can get into contact with my partner. Ultimately I will likely be moving my vote there, however.

ZMD, Trotsky, Yosariwen, Zaphod, and a few others who have gone dark lately should probably post soonish.

[J-Scope]

The cool side of J-Scope is going to get back into this game asap.

[Zmd]

quote="Pesco Light"]

If my partner says something that is questioned/attacked, then I can't post until she does without a) avoiding the issue, looking scummy or b) saying its a different head.

This is a non-issue. You should be comfortable enough with your partner that even if there are differences in opinions/responses, you can rationalise it and explain things. You're sharing the same role and alignment, I don't buy anyone claiming to be so incompetent that they can't post due to something their player slot said.

Unvote
Vote Apples&Banana

Pesco[/quote]

It's possible that your partner will say something and you don't know why they said it or you don't even agree with it. I agree that it isn't a major issue though as you can easily say "I don't know why my partner said that" or "I disagree with my partner."

At the moment, the PokeTheAlpaca wagon looks

very

opportunistic. Of the people on the wagon, A&B's vote stands out the most as a cheap way to jump on, especially when they were yet to post content. Kscope's meta suggests all is fine for him jumping on too, but I still don't like the baseless entry.

I'm going to

Vote: Apples and Bananas

on a gut read.[/color]

What? You make a point against opportunistic wagons and join the other opportunistic wagon? Really?

I'm unsure as to whether I like the rapidly materializing wagon on A&B or not - part of me wants to leap on there full-force, part of me wants to run away screaming bloody murder. It's rather blah-inducing.

Nice fence-sit.

Fuuny how Hoopla/Ort calls Poke's wagon opportunistic and then jumps on the new popular wagon.

Unvote, Vote Ortohoops

Oh, I already commented on this? Oh well. Still feel the same.

My main point is I don't think scum would blatantly draw attention to themself in such an obvious way - or rather, I don't think those spam posts were intentionally made to waste posts, when a recharge target is so far off. There is little to no scum motivation behind it.

In fact I'd suggest scum would more likely be the players most wary of this infraction. It's a simple way for them to sit back early and jump on someone for fluff posting, knowing that the town is paranoid of this. And, I think A&B is most guilty of this crime.[/color]

I disagree to an extent. Scum will still want to rush things a little. I expect to see a mix. Scum who are trying to sneak in extra posts and scum who lurk. That being said, Trotsky posted more than needed in the first couple of pages. +Scumpoints.

Fine, I'll claim.

Compulsive Vig.

I'd have said he stays alive until the scum are dead. If he's still alive by then, obvSK. I see that he's flipped SK though.

Also, not posting under your hydra name is uber confusing.

Why is it confusing?

----------------------

Scum are Ortohoops, Trotsky, and Death The Hogfather.

I don't see PTA as scum.

Zazie's input may come later. I can't exactly speak for her, but I know she has shown some interest in catching up on this.

[Saunt Adelaus]

Incamnito, Tracker, has been killed.

~~~

Votecount as of post 168

PoketheAlpaca:

3

:Ortohoops, J-Scope, sex w/ shafteds wife club,

not voting:

9

:Death the Hogfather, Frog Dodging, Pesco-Light, PoketheAlpaca, Raging Wishbone, Trotsky, Yosariwen, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Zmd

while 12 players are alive, 7 votes will lynch

[Saunt Adelaus]

FYI - alpha is now over, and is no longer an on-going game. Feel free to talk about that game here.

[Saunt Adelaus]

Ojando replaced Death the Hogfather. Thanks for replacing in!

[J-Scope]

Yosariwen last posted when they were still alive in alpha. What gives?

Zaphod looked like they were coming back in a pro-town way with their last post but that was almost a week ago.

Same with Frog Dodging but I thought they’ve been very town with their opinions and analysis. They seemed to put a lot of thought into analyzing posts but they’ve been gone almost a week too.

Trotsky needs to post again too. I don’t think they’ve done enough to warrant a solid read. It’s all early pressure on A&B that was good and all but doesn’t mean they aren’t scum themselves. They need to show they know the rest of the thread.

Out of the lurkers I think Yosariwen's absence looks the most questionable. Does anyone know if meta or V/LA apply here for them?

Not really liking Orto's defense that "my hydra partner did it!" in regards to the three fluff posts PtA pointed out. You and your hydra are the same player in this game. That's a BS defense. I do agree however that some of those "fluff posts" were direct replies to questions asked by other players.

I agree here and would apply that same principle on the PoketheAlpaca hydra when they explained that the one half of the hydra looking hypocritical (tajo) is not the one that made the accusation on fluff posts (pokerface). They are playing as one and should demonstrate that they are on the same page with how they are playing and judging others.

It's possible that your partner will say something and you don't know why they said it or you don't even agree with it. I agree that it isn't a major issue though as you can easily say "I don't know why my partner said that" or "I disagree with my partner."

Why are you talking to someone that replaced out, like, over a week ago?

I disagree to an extent. Scum will still want to rush things a little. I expect to see a mix. Scum who are trying to sneak in extra posts and scum who lurk.

Is that disagreeing with the essence of what Ortohoops said though? That scum would jump on someone for fluff posting?

Scum are Ortohoops, Trotsky, and Death The Hogfather.

You gave scumpoints to Trotsky and said Ortohoops was opportunistic, but you didn't mention Death the Hogfather in that post. How is he scum?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

I am back from V/LA.

Any urgent matter?

*DGB*

[Korts]

I am a page and a half behind with the reading, and rofl just came off V/LA. We'll get a post together soon.