War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[Kinetic]

/confirm

[Kinetic]

Finally.

OK First off, don't be an idiot and hurt too quickly.

Kills/Lynches need to be decided before the first hurt. We cannot allow players to build up hurts, because especially in late game if we let this get out a hand it won't matter what sort of majority we have because without order the scum will win.

This game is less about majority and more about coordination. We need to coordinate our actions or else we will be forced to react.

As it stands, I'd like to propose the first rule of this war: Heal anyone who is Hurt unless we have decided to lynch/kill them, much like Cybele has done.

Random/reactions need to be reigned in.

Second rule, you MUST be active. In this game where a coordinate assault by a minority can cause a kill the town MUST be active to prevent an active minority from taking this game.

Quick days will only HELP the scum, so I intend to draw out their intentions and actions and refuse to let them cause chaos and push the town into hasty actions.

This is not a game you can sit back and win. If you are not active, leave and be replaced now. I refuse to allow you to ruin it.

[Kinetic]

Finally.

OK First off, don't be an idiot and hurt too quickly.

Kills/Lynches need to be decided before the first hurt. We cannot allow players to build up hurts, because especially in late game if we let this get out a hand it won't matter what sort of majority we have because without order the scum will win.

This game is less about majority and more about coordination. We need to coordinate our actions or else we will be forced to react.

As it stands, I'd like to propose the first rule of this war: Heal anyone who is Hurt unless we have decided to lynch/kill them, much like Cybele has done.

Random/reactions need to be reigned in.

Second rule, you MUST be active. In this game where a coordinate assault by a minority can cause a kill the town MUST be active to prevent an active minority from taking this game.

Quick days will only HELP the scum, so I intend to draw out their intentions and actions and refuse to let them cause chaos and push the town into hasty actions.

This is not a game you can sit back and win. If you are not active, leave and be replaced now. I refuse to allow you to ruin it.

After all that has been said, do you still think this?

True I didn't know about the specifics of rage points, however I did anticipate a way to secretly hurt. As such, because of this point you brought up (and what I was eluding to in my previous post), we should be able to minimize their effect.

Sorry for the fourth post but I think this is also important:
1. Town lost last time because town's HP were already low for random hurtings. I dont agree with random hurting but I also dont agree with long days (more rage points). We have to find a balance.

As long as we keep everyone topped off unless we decide to kill them, the less secret damage becomes an issue.

Either way I'm still going to look over all the information carefully and see if there is anything I missed.

[Kinetic]

FOS: Kinetic

You want to make the day as long as possible, which goes in direct contradiction to this rage point theory.

Yes, as long as possible, but not too long that it becomes horribly detrimental. I've yet to see a game where quick lynching has won the game, and I refuse to quick lynch for the sake of such. This doesn't mean I'm advocating waiting forever, but I'm not going to make hasty decisions either.

You also have to look at the other side of the coin. While the scum are saving points, they aren't using them, which makes them useless until actually used. It does mean that they can dump, and effectively night kill with such a dump, but these rules highly favor the town, not the scum.

By making sure we're not spreading damage we can make it so rage dumps are few and far between.

I don't understand the healing of players that haven't taken damage yet. Somebody explain?

You can go to +1 your "maximum" health, read the rules.

Quick days will only HELP the scum, so I intend to draw out their intentions and actions and refuse to let them cause chaos and push the town into hasty actions.

Wrong. Long days allow scum to accumulate rage points as has been pointed out. Quick days in terms of real life time help the town. Optimal town play requires long day is terms of posts but quick in terms of time.

Not wrong, by your own admission. I judge length more by the number of posts and less by the time it takes to get the posts.

Either way, I think its generally agreed upon at this time not to take too long, but also not to let rage points control us either.

I don't see any need to subvert the hurt/heal mechanism. Just try to concentrate your fire on people who are already hurt, rather than wearing everyone down at once. That will make it harder for scum to suddenly kill townies using secret damage.

As several people have said, a fast-paced game helps the town even more than normal. Expect scum to try to slow it down by lurking.

Something about this post reeks.

FOS:Xyl

If we do choose to focus fire, I think we should avoid mass-firing in a short time and always have a heal cooldown ready for a rage damage dump.

I disagree with this. I think we need to Mass fire so we learn exactly who and how many people are on the "wagon" so to speak. The way this game is set up your "vote" is refreshed every day or so, and as such a small group can kill someone rather quickly.

Perhaps we should make another rule of sorts, Once you harm someone, for the time being, you do not harm them again. I'm trying to think of a way of wording it, but this system is very unique.

Basically I want to avoid a small group leading all the lynches. I want as many opinions on the kills as possible before someone dies.

Also, since the Smallest life pool total is 7, we should never try to hurt someone past that threshold without letting them claim at the very least. It also gives us a little buffer in case they have more HP that 7 and scum try and secret kill them.

[Kinetic]

Heal ABR

[Kinetic]

rofl, simulpost FTL >>

[Kinetic]

Perhaps we should make another rule of sorts, Once you harm someone, for the time being, you do not harm them again. I'm trying to think of a way of wording it, but this system is very unique.

This is unbelievably stupid.

-.- Got it. You realize I HATE being called stupid right?

Stop it now. Explain yourself. Why are my ideas stupid but yours are perfect? How do we even KNOW there is a rage like mechanic in this game like the last one? Hell I can think of 3 or 4 different mechanics which are similar but work on different principals other than time (such as, 1 rage every time someone is killed, or 1 rage every time one of them is harmed, etc etc)

I want to gain as much information as possible from kills.

Tell me, HOW IS THAT UNBELIEVIBLY STUPID OMG< LOL HAHAHA HAHAHA AH HAHA HA HAH AQH REAHGEAGHN AERG $#QTG$#GF AWERGFR.

...

Basically I want to avoid a small group leading all the lynches. I want as many opinions on the kills as possible before someone dies.

Trying to force-stall a game again.

Umm... no. Read what I wrote just a few sentences earlier. I am for mass movements of kills, in a short time frame, but from multiple players, once we've decided among ourselves on a kill.

I am not for having 3 people using hard three times in as many days and killing someone and only those three people having "opinions" on the attack.

Having 7-10 people on a lynch is usually better than 3-4, at least in my experience.

If we have lurkers and people who are non-committal, that needs to be dealt with. But just giving up on those players and going forward with a lynch is hasty and one of the things I'm trying to avoid. We need ACTIVE players who are able to make decisions. And when we have ACTIVE players we can organize a lynch quickly and you don't need to worry about your precious rage mechanics (which I'm starting to believe may not even exist in the way you're all preaching them).

Also, since the Smallest life pool total is 7, we should never try to hurt someone past that threshold without letting them claim at the very least. It also gives us a little buffer in case they have more HP that 7 and scum try and secret kill them.

Wow!! NO! We don't ask for claims in a game like this, we rape the scum like thunder before they realize what hit them.

I reiterate: no waiting for claims!

Kinetic is trying to stall the game AGAIN. That's 3 times now. After we've all capped off at our maximum hp, we should kill Kinetic right off the bat.

After thinking about it for a bit, I realize that claims are not really that big of a deal in this game, based on the types of roles that are out there and the mechanics behind it.

My mistake. However, I can admit when this game trips me up a little bit, but I'm still willing to be active and pro-town.

I'd appreciate it if you would have some courtesy and be civil.

As for the charge of stalling, I think you're being way to hot-headed. This is the way I am. I think, I reason, and I discuss. It is how I play and it is how I win. The mind cannot be rushed and I will not be hasty in my decision making.

[Kinetic]

Kinetic, please.

Stop it now. Explain yourself. Why are my ideas stupid but yours are perfect? How do we even KNOW there is a rage like mechanic in this game like the last one? Hell I can think of 3 or 4 different mechanics which are similar but work on different principals other than time (such as, 1 rage every time someone is killed, or 1 rage every time one of them is harmed, etc etc)

This is a nightless game and the rage mechanic makes perfect sense. The hypothetical mechanics that you suggest here are incredibly broken in favor of town. The only constant factor in this game is total post count and time. I doubt that the more we post, the more we are punished for it, so the only mechanic left is time. The rage theory fits perfectly into a game like this.

Got it, so you're for ignoring theories which could be valid just because they don't fit perfectly?

I know a thing about creating and breaking complex set ups. The first thing you do to counter such a breaking is to intentionally leave imperfections, because such unanticipated imperfections are often what make perfect balance.

It makes sense, which is also why I'm not dismissing it, but I'm not one who will dismiss other possible logical theories... In fact, this post limit to rage sounds interesting... In a larger game (which this is), with more players, it may be a more balanced mechanic than time, and one which can be largely controlled by an informed minority.

Good thinking...

You are, again, trying to take advantage of future indecisive players. Don't you know how difficult it is to gain a consensus, especially with 5-7 scum counter-acting us? Stop trying to stall the game. If someone doesn't have an input, we carry on and kill off the scummy player without them. We don't have all day to wait for sporadically active players to weigh in.

I am doing no such thing. And you are misrepresenting my position.

I do not think it would be wise for a small group of people to perform the kills. I think it would be wise if we did have input from a larger group. Since the SCUM group clearly is large enough for your small group kill mentality, what is to stop the SCUM from driving these lynches?

The smaller the group that decides the lynches the LARGER the influence the scum will have on it. How can you not understand that concept?

I'm not for waiting around for lurkers to decide a lynch, which is why I want a very active town, but I'm also not for a small group to essentially bulldoze the town into submission.

Think of it like this: If there are 2-3 players out of 20 who are lurking, I can get behind not waiting for them. That is a small group. If there are 12-14 players not giving input I cannot get behind said lynch/kill.

I want at least 50% of the town at least giving INPUT on said lynch, whether they oppose or support it at the very least, before going forward with a kill. I think that is the MINIMUM acceptable standards, but I would gladly accept more.

Votecount.

Kinetic. 2(Tajo, ABR)
Hoopla 1(q21)

Not voting 17 (Cybele, Drench, DrippingGoofball, Giuseppe, Hoopla, Juls, Kinetic, Nuwen, roflcopter, Seraphim,Shinnen_no_Me,Tenchi,The Fonz,vIQleS,WaltWishbone,Xylthixlm,zwetschenwasser)

Kinetic why did you heal ABR? Heal someone else, plz.

Look at the time stamps. I thought we were just spreading around the heals, noticed he wasn't healed and healed him. It just happened at the exact same moment as someone else.

healing everyone to one above starting hit points seems like its just going to drag this day out. didn't we already establish that long days in this game are extra bad for the town?

hurt: kinetic

die fallen angel scum die

Fail. Please, help the scum more. kthx.

the above applies to people voting kinetic. people voting xyl should get over it because he's clearly town. abr is town too.

Got it, but you're clearly scum, so I can clearly not believe anything you say.

so, healing every single person to starting health +1 seems like a gigantic waste of time, and way too many people are hiding in this discussion when they should be scumhunting.

Disagree. For one, it means one more of these rage points to kill someone, multiply that by everyone who is max health... This is the reason why random hurting is bad. We don't want to help the scum do their job so they can efficiently use rage points. What we want to do is make it difficult for them to do anything.

Heal: Seraphim.

Heal me back!

Also,

Random anything at this point has a 75% chance of hitting town.

How can you be so sure? That's a pretty solid number, you know. The only way you would know that is that you know how much scum there are, hence, you must be a scum as well.

FoS: vIQ

(My, this sure is a fast paced topic. When I was posting my last post, I was in the middle of page 4, and when I finished it, it was in page 5!)

Good catch.

FoS: ViQ

. I renew Shinnen's question, how are you so sure about the distribution?

Perhaps we should make another rule of sorts, Once you harm someone, for the time being, you do not harm them again. I'm trying to think of a way of wording it, but this system is very unique.

A rule that blocks a townie's ability to hurt the same player consecutively after his refreshment period. The reason this is scummy is because it would most likely lead said townie to hurt someone

else

, spreading the damage and advantaging scum. Inherently, Kinetic wants to limit the town (read: screw the town over) by limiting its power and giving the scum more time to organize themselves. Remember, this being a nightless game, the scum are freely able to daytalk. They are coordinating their moves as we speak in their quicktopic thread.

This is more of a limitation on a small group from forcing a lynch/kill on someone with little to no input from anyone else. I feel that the smaller the group pushing the kills the more that the scum can influence said group. I want at least SOME sort of consensus before we kill someone off.

Also, since the Smallest life pool total is 7, we should never try to hurt someone past that threshold without letting them claim at the very least. It also gives us a little buffer in case they have more HP that 7 and scum try and secret kill them.

A rule that freezes the game once someone is at 6 damage for a claim. This is super anti-town since the mafia can claim whatever they want and the town is in no position to counter-claim since there are multiples of the same roles. He should know better than this, Kinetic wasn't born yesterday. Which means that he faked not knowing, so he could milk this pro-scum policy.

Which is why after I thought about it I rescinded my stance on this issue. You were right, I openly admitted it, and I backed down. When I am wrong, I tend to do that.

That being said, I brought it up because at the time I was still thinking of this more as a general mafia game, and this is a different beast. I did not read the previous game threads so I wasn't perfect in my knowledge.

As I learn more, my insights will be better, but I think you attacking me for what I SHOULD know when you very clearly weren't perfect on all the rules either is a little hypocritical. (I'm referring to the fact that you didn't know HP totals could go above their beginning maximum)

Here are another series of posts I'm not too fond of:

While the scum are saving points, they aren't using them, which makes them useless until actually used.

Downplaying the danger of scum, without actually making any points.

Actually this is more of the business school part of me, thinking about unrealized gains and losses being just that, unrealized, and when they are in such a conceptual form too many people give them real life values which are useless.

If a scum has a million rage points and we kill him, those rage points mean nothing.

It does mean that they can dump, and effectively night kill with such a dump, but these rules highly favor the town, not the scum.

Downplaying the scum -without any evidence- again.

You don't have any evidence that such a system exists either... I'm making assumptions based on YOUR and others assumptions. If the underlining assumption is wrong, yes, my assumption based upon it could also be wrong, but if you are right than my assumption can just as well be right.

I'm pretty good at this sort of deductive reasoning.

I want as many opinions on the kills as possible before someone dies.

Trying to stall the game - again.

Read my above comments for my mind set on this. A larger group of people who are involved in a lynch means a smaller percentage of the group being scum, thus this is limiting scum power.

-.- Got it. You realize I HATE being called stupid right?

Stop it now. Explain yourself. Why are my ideas stupid but yours are perfect? How do we even KNOW there is a rage like mechanic in this game like the last one? Hell I can think of 3 or 4 different mechanics which are similar but work on different principals other than time (such as, 1 rage every time someone is killed, or 1 rage every time one of them is harmed, etc etc)

I want to gain as much information as possible from kills.

Tell me, HOW IS THAT UNBELIEVIBLY STUPID OMG< LOL HAHAHA HAHAHA AH HAHA HA HAH AQH REAHGEAGHN AERG $#QTG$#GF AWERGFR.

...

His going crazy as soon as we caught his hand in the cookie jar. Kinetic probably expected us to debate his rules back and forth for pages on end, wasting precious scumhunting time. Look how flustered he is. And notice how I never attacked his person or called him stupid, either.

Look back at previous games, all of which I was town. I hate people who belittle me or call me stupid. It is the ONLY reason I have ever exploded in a thread. I don't like it. At all. I don't apologize for it, it is one of those things where it may be an imperfection, but it is one I live with and don't shy away from.

This is the way I am. I think, I reason, and I discuss. It is how I play and it is how I win. The mind cannot be rushed and I will not be hasty in my decision making.

I think this, by Kinetic's own admission, admirably describes how he plans to play the rest of this game: sluggishly, unproductively, and showing an absolute incapability of making any sort of decision within a reasonable timeframe.

He is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, a liability to this town.

Sluggish? Unproductive? Incapable of making decision?

And you base this on what? I am quite capable of rapid action once a course has been decided, but the way I am I must learn as much as possible in a reasonable time frame before I make such a decision. Don't get me wrong, I understand we're in a time crunch, but I REFUSE to allow that to effect my decision making.

This is how I play, it is how I've always played, and with my record behind me it is a winning strategy.

Ok, I wasn't really seeing it before, but ABR's summarized case against Kinetic is convincing.

Vote: Kinetic

Also: I really do agree with the idea of fake-voting instead of hurting. New mechanics means we need to adapt.

I really don't like it when someone is convinced solely on someone else's argument. It just reeks to me.

Normally Id agree with rolf you but this game is different.
EVERYBODY READ THIS.
If everybody acted like you, rolf, we would have everyone at -4HP at day 3 with rage points ready to finish the loyal part of the angels.
Hurting/healing in a disorganized way is not the way to go.
Voting fits the same objective. You think someone is scum. You vote that person. You change your mind. You unvote. You think someone else is scummier, you vote again.
If we change the word

vote

with the word

hurt

we achieve the same thing but we dont help scum with this retarded "hurting someone I think is scum"..
Topping everybody (24 hours recharge) is not a waste of time and could be helpful.
HURTING WITH NO ORDER WAS THE REASON WHY TOWN LOST THE FUCKING GAME LAST TIME.

QFT.

After looking it over I'm not liking Rofl, but for some reason I'm not getting an overly scummy vibe from him... I don't like him though...

I completely don't like Xyl either... but again, something is nagging at me.

At this point my

Vote

is on either

vIQ or Cybele

[Kinetic]

This is more of a limitation on a small group from forcing a lynch/kill on someone with little to no input from anyone else. I feel that the smaller the group pushing the kills the more that the scum can influence said group. I want at least SOME sort of consensus before we kill someone off.

The easiest way to do this is to cannibalize any small group of players bouncing from kill to kill. There's no need to neuter the entire town's capacity to quickhurt.

That's a fair idea.

And just to reiterate, I'm not looking for a solid majority consensus for every lynch (although I would prefer it), I'm looking for at least having a majority of the players in the game giving an opinion before we decide on a target.

[Kinetic]

The more I think about it, the more I feel the best scum strategy is a highly aggressive one. Especially if they can make it look townie to be aggressive.

[Kinetic]

You're all blinded by rage and deserve your fates -.-;

[Kinetic]

Ha. Its kind of funny, I just did some math:

Assuming the lowest HP total is 7, all players can have at least 8 HP.

Assuming everything that is said about rage mechanics is true in this game, that means at most scum can only hold up to 3 rage points.

Assuming Scum have 4 or 5 players, at BEST they can only kill one person out right and wound a second.

Assuming scum is 6 or 7 players, at BEST they can only kill 2 players outright...

Interesting...

[Kinetic]

Also, jut to put it out there, if scum "try" to kill someone and fail because we heal them in time, most likely this was a feint.

I know if I was scum there would never be a chance for someone to survive a rage dump, so I think this whole "saving a contingent for healing" stuff is a load of bullshit.

[Kinetic]

Oh and here is the scum PM from the other game

In addition to your usual powers, the force of your betrayal and anger give you strength. Every Sunday at noon (server time), you will receive 1 Rage Point that you may use in a secret attack by PMing me with a player's name. This damage will be reflected in the next damage tally, but not associated with your name. You may store them up, to a maximum of 3. If you are killed/cast out, you lose any remaining points.

You begin the game with 8 HP. You win if all loyal angels are killed, and at least one fallen angel survives. You may talk to your fellow (living) fallen angels outside of the game thread at any time, since this game is Nightless. If you are killed/cast out, stop talking.

[Kinetic]

Whoa! Three separate hurts is bad... that being said I don't have good reads on any of the players, not enough to heal any of them.

Shinnen_no_Me / Xylthixlm / vIQleS

I support attacks on Shinnen and Xiq, but I'm still unsure on Xyl. Unsure enough that I won't support an attack on him.

I'm thinking the pushers for attacks are right. Once we have decided on a "lynch" can we at least agree that it isn't a bad thing to heal the other players if there is a lot of harm going around?

If we want a consensus, why not state once someone has 33% in votes (which at this point would be 6 or 7) we can begin harming them. Frome there they should die in a day or two...

Unvote all

Vote: Shinnen/Viq

[Kinetic]

Giuseppe... Have we heard from him at all?

[Kinetic]

I also would like to request to be healed please. I'm under my starting HP, so I'm effectively -2.

[Kinetic]

I fear we will not learn much more about any of the possibilities of the scum's powers until we kill someone. I think we've had plenty of discussion in the last few days...

At this point I'd most like to kill either Shinnen or Viq... Something about the two of them makes me distrust them most.

Rofl irks me immensely. I've looked through his past games to see about his style and how it differs here and there. I've learned a little, and I thought he might be an alt (one of his games specifically named him such) and I'd like to know what his main account is. Feels a lot like he's playing out of his normal style because this is an alt, and that irks me even more. I'd like to kill him, but I'm not convinced he's scum yet, only that he is playing like this for reactions...

Xyl I am less sure about. I get a scummier feeling coming from him lately, but again I'm not sure if that is just because I don't like his playstyle or if there is something behind it. I think I could get behind his death if the consensus is there, but I am definitely not for championing that cause at this time.

Wishbone is more in a neutral area for me. He's coast a little bit too much for my liking... but that is how it is.

DGB is being DGB. She's been scum in like the last three games I've played with her. I'd appreciate it if someone with some eyes kept them on her.

ABR has been giving me nothing but townie vibes. I've played with him, a long time ago now, and his play style has certainly changed since then. Despite that, and despite him virtually leading the charge against me, I don't suspect him very much at this time. I'm more suspicious of some of the players coming to join him, such as Hoopla and Cybele in particular.

Nuwen has her share of good and bad posts, but again I haven't felt very many scummy vibes.

Pop is intriguing... On the one hand he's taking a forward place in many of the discussions, on the other hand he seems to be only doing that. He's made his little vote counts, commented on a few things, but nothing is really stick out to me... I could see pop going either way at this point.

I liked the Fonz's opening post, and sort of like his plan, although he has only a few posts to his credit so far.

Who is left...


Drench, Juls, q21, zwet, Tenchi

Actively lurking much? Not liking it. I'd appreciate a little more activity.

Giuseppe

VLA since confirmation, no game posts yet, ewe. Although when he returns is odd considering the previous game with the Sunday night rage points...

Seraphim

I seem to remember very little from Seraphim's posts. Odd, I remember him talking about Xyl because he was scum with in in MS3.

A few more posts have been made since then, can you care to elaborate a little further on your feelings of Xyl?

Xyl, can you give me some insight into Seraphim's playstyle?

[Kinetic]

hurt:Shinnen

Yay anarchy

[Kinetic]

I'm going to laugh when town loses because the aggressive idiots are pushing the "hurt everyone, what is the worst that can happen" agenda...

If rage works how they think it does, I'm just waiting for the multiple scum kills incoming. -,-

[Kinetic]

The answer is not "don't heal". The answer is "Every intent to heal cancels out an intent to hurt. Don't hurt someone unless you have more than enough intent to hurts to cancel out all the intent to heals. Don't heal someone unless you have more than enough intent to heals to cancel out all the intent to hurts."

The answer should be 'don't heal.' (Once we have dead scum, we might consider healing damage caused by said scum. And we need to heal Rofl after Shinnen is dead, as per the guidelines on 'lone wolf' attacks I set out earlier. But certainly not yet). Counterwagon.

I'm sorry, but I'm really starting to get sick of your complete hate of the healing mechanic...

Its like saying "Everyone has unlimited votes, but you're not allowed to unvote, that is not townie..."

As far as I'm concerned there are some situations where healing is inappropriate (when there is a defined wagon in particular), but there are some situations when healing is not just appropriate, but is the most pro-town thing to do.

Some of these situations include, but are not limited to: Once a set "lynch" is decided, some of the players should heal up players who are not the lynch target. We need to have the highest average health among the town as possible.

I agree, we don't know exactly how rage mechanics work, but that doesn't mean we just ignore how they have worked in the past. A good counter strategy to how rage mechanics worked in the past that does not do ANYTHING to the town is to keep a high average health. And that also means healing players who are both not current lynch targets and healing former lynch targets.

I am getting SICK of players just doing things their own way with no regard to the town at large.

The fact that you are SO against healing and so FOR having a low average town health shows a COMPLETE and utter disregard for pro-town play.

There are points for aggressiveness, but there is no reason for recklessness, and some players, not just you Fonz, are toeing that line way too willingly.

[Kinetic]

I was sorely tempted to use this cooldown to heal one other players with damage, but I'm not convinced about the two players with 3 damage last tally. 2 Damage isn't really a danger zone in my opinion though...

I'm going to wait for a Flay tally though and see if there was any secret damage before hurting Shinnen though.

[Kinetic]

I'm going to wait for a Flay tally though and see if there was any secret damage before hurting Shinnen though.

Secret damage? There's secret damage?

I was asked by ABR to hurt Shinnen to test whether I was telling the truth about my inability to inflict damage.

Now it sounds like ABR set up a trap for me.

There is the possibility of secret damage, yes. That is what all the talk about rage points is about... -.-;

[Kinetic]

Mod, can I please get a tally on damage

[Kinetic]

Mod, can I please get a tally on damage

ROFL

I have to stop doing that...

[Kinetic]

Ok, nothing looks amiss.

Hurt Shinnen

- Too soon. Flay

[Kinetic]

So, Rolf and Shinnen are proven Seraphs?
Ok, this has happened before. If there is another Seraph in the game its time to claim now, since THERE HAS to be a Scum Seraph.

Hurt : Shinnen.

Too soon. Flay
If nobody else claims and Shinnen comes up town (which I doubt but still possible) rolf has to be the next one to go.

I'd rather heal copter, but here you go.

Hurt: Shinnen

Flay, will you always make a note as such when someone's hurt or heal fails due you inability because of role (due to internal cooldowns)?

[Kinetic]

Yup, DGB's hurt didn't count, as suspected.

One of (DGB, Albert, Julz, q21, Seraphim)'s hurts didn't count.

Maybe... I was just thinking of something... what if Rage points could be used to Heal as well as Hurt???

Could someone be trying to frame someone?

Either way, because you hurt Shinnen, as well as three others, and flay doesn't specifically say which one doesn't work if it was a private action than any one of you could be it.

Ironically, the one person besides DGB that I suspect is you Albert. You've been mighty jumpy these last couple pages... could this be a gambit of your own?

I'd like DGB to claim whether she could have hurt or not, but I'd also like to know if this wasn't a game of shells you're trying to play here Albert...

PreviewEdit: Why is Xyl taking it as absolutely correct that Albert is right... There is no way Albert could know if he was right and the fact is Xyl, since he is cataloging all the hurts, should know that as well...

[Kinetic]

Bleh, I thought I smelled something, but I should have read DGB and the roles a little more closely. This is what I get for skimming more than I should...

[Kinetic]

My cooldown should be up

hurt shinnen

- Still too soon; wait until :06. Flay

[Kinetic]

Walt: I think that's the first time I've ever seen someone say they need to see

more

posts from me.

Kinetic: I need to make some reasonable assumptions about what's going on, or my counts will be full of disclaimers. I will generally assume that no funny business is going on unless the official damage count says otherwise. It's always possible that two lies/secret effects cancelled each other out. I'll add a disclaimer to the next count.

DGB: So, is there a reason you aren't going berserk with accusations of bussing?

No, what I meant was that you crossed DGB's name off the damage count when I thought there was no proof that DGB's was definitely the one that didn't count...

It looks like I was wrong on that.

[Kinetic]

I read something that made me think that Shinnen was more likely town then hoopla (who seems fairly neutral at the mo.) but I can't remember what it was. I need to do some more reading.

Scummy to me at the moment:

Xyl
Kenetic
Rofl
ABR

I'm thinking DGB is less scummy then my last post - although my reasoning here could be flawed...

Reading to be done, then post more. Then hurting. Possibly Shinnen, just to see the kill and hence results. Then examine the bandwagon...

Wow I'm glad that you're thinking the four players with the highest activity are scummy. Obviously without your quick mind we'd be lost in the dark Viq.[/sarcasm]

And it is KINETIC, no E, I am not one of Barbie's plastic friends.

While I haven't by any stretch of the imagination cleared any of the people on your list, I'm at least looking at all the possibilities. Honestly, by this point in the game I'm tired of looking at the more active side. I've fenced directly with ABR, and indirectly with Xyl and Rofl. You, on the other hand, have pretty much tried to stay out of any arguments and have made bupkis but OMGUS and some mild pointing out of things you thought might help you...

Now reading you in isolation I'm more concrete about my suspicions of you.

First, since any case about you would be incomplete without the slip, I'll post it first to get it out of the way.

Random anything at this point has a 75% chance of hitting town.

No qualifying statements, no approximately, no about, just a firm definitive number. You brought in some math to back you up, but the fact remains you were so perfect with the number, so quickly (your second post of the game) that it can't help but be suspicious...

Anyway, you've already made your case why this isn't scummy, so I'll ask you not to reiterate it and focus on the other points I bring up, I'm just putting it here so that the entirety of your play is obvious.

(Last game, it took a week before rage started to accumulate).

Same post... but I hadn't realized you were in the last game... This piqued my interest because of something you tried to nail me on later in the game...

Assuming everything that is said about rage mechanics is true in this game, that means at most scum can only hold up to 3 rage points.

Did someone say that? Because I don't remember anyone else saying that... I'm going to bed - can someone check this please.

I later re-posted the role PM that was posted earlier... but it didn't hit me until I re-read you and realized you were SCUM in the last game...

You knew this was true. Knew it without even needing to look it up... So I wondered, why on earth would you need someone to look it up for you?

The only thing I can think of was you were attempting to distance yourself from this knowledge and try and place some blame on me...

This is further enhanced by the fact that you now find such an interesting group of people scummy, myself included...

And now it begs the question:

Why haven't you hurt anyone yet viq?

[Kinetic]

Nuwen, I know I sound like a broken record when I say this (and I feel like the only person who is saying it), but this whole rage mechanic could be a bluff. We don't know for sure yet if that is how it works in this game.

Everything in me is saying it would be odd to have the same exact hidden effect in two games. Maybe its a double bluff (they wouldn't possibly expect me to do the same thing), but either way I think everyone should be expecting the unexpected as well as preparing for the possibilities.

[Kinetic]

Nuwen, I know I sound like a broken record when I say this (and I feel like the only person who is saying it), but this whole rage mechanic could be a bluff. We don't know for sure yet if that is how it works in this game.

Everything in me is saying it would be odd to have the same exact hidden effect in two games. Maybe its a double bluff (they wouldn't possibly expect me to do the same thing), but either way I think everyone should be expecting the unexpected as well as preparing for the possibilities.

Every other mechanic has been identical, with the exception of Ophanim tracking time (72 hours here versus 48 hours in the mini). I'd rather humor the existence of rage and be cautious with non-wagon health totals than risk ignoring rage while it has the potential to exist.

I did not say that.

What I said was this: Rage may be here, but it may not be. Don't only act as if it is the only way.

Play as if it is, it doesn't hurt us not to. At least not yet... (Ironically, just though of an interesting way it could... target player deals damage equal to the health of another player in the game.)

Anyway, I'm just saying be cautious and be prepared if the wind is really blowing the other way.

[Kinetic]

Wishbone, please make your avatar a cute little dog.


That is all.

[Kinetic]

I will do you one better, I'll make you one.

Just made a new one for myself.

Here:

[Kinetic]

lol, it HAS to be a Jack Russel Terrier, or don't you know Wishbone?

[Kinetic]

Might I suggest that anyone who has an open cooldown throw some heals around to anyone who is not Hoopla, Viq, or Wishbone?

Honestly I haven't looked too much into Hoopla, but others have and come back not liking what they see. Pretty much the same for Wishbone... I should read both deeper.

Either way, there are some other damage around and a little clean up could never hurt while we have a little bit of a downtime.

[Kinetic]

Shinnen, before you die, if you're town, tell me who you think is guilty.

shh... be a good scum and die without any more wifom

Why, I can tell you the list: Most likely it will include you, Xyl, maybe even Albert and me. Yay?

[Kinetic]

There is the DGB we all know and love. I knew you couldn't last a day without yellign that everyone on a lynch was bussing.

[Kinetic]

WOOT.

Heal : rolf.

This really puts viqles and some I need to reevaluate in a very bad position and confirms many players.

I don't think it confirms anyone honestly, and I don't think we should start thinking otherwise just yet.

Albert and Fonz started the lynch, I felt I was the tipping point before people started piling on, and Rofl/Numen are both claimed Seraphim. That is all well and good, but there could very well be a second Seraphim scum (high likelihood? Probably not), but I'm not going to completely discount that chance.

Albert hurt another player in between his hurts on Shinnen (Could be a distancing hurt).

There is a good lot of information though, and that I'm glad about. I think its time to sift through it and find what sticks out.

All the better, I'm trusting my instincts and my read on Viq. I think he's scum. I plan on reading Hoopla and Wishbone, since they seem to be the other targets, but at this point I only support the Viq hurting. I'll look at the others when I get the chance. (Some time tomorrow most likely. Tests today have my primary attention)

There is the DGB we all know and love. I knew you couldn't last a day without yelling that everyone on a lynch was bussing.

This is Day 1. When have bus'ing scumbags not dominated the Day 1 agenda?

I've been in more games where Day 1 was a townie forced mislynch then I care to mention. I'll take a scum down any day, especially a Seraphim. That could have been a hectic character in mid-late game (12 HP + 33% more damage per cooldown, no thanks). However if the scum do have two Seraphim, sacrificing one to give the other ones either "confirmation" or at the least the ability to blend in wouldn't be a bad strategy imho.

[Kinetic]

Scum is dead. Who cares who gets the most credit on DAY 2. Back to scum hunting please. I suggest via. I'm on my iPhone so I can't bold but I placing an Intent to hurt on via.

And in response to rofl: you are only confirmed innocent in my book when the mod says you are. You get bonus points but I didn't get my rep by taking your word or omgus for it.

[Kinetic]

I'm dead tired (still haven't gone to sleep), but my cooldown isn't up for another couple hours. I don't think I'll be up then...

I'm still unsure about hoopla, but if he's that close to dead I'd just as soon finish him off to learn more about the rest of the town.

[Kinetic]

Interesting...

Well it looks like my radar might not be completely bad yet.

hurt:viq

Can we wagon him now please.

[Kinetic]

Gah sorry, triple post...fricking comcast. Sorry all!

I would delete the first two of these posts of these (MR. Flay a lil help please? Can you please delte 1042, and 1043?) lol. My first two posts were hiccups. lol.

Flay please don't delete those posts. They are not identical.

[Kinetic]

We are not playing Survivor, the idea of the game is not to last, it is to kill scum...even if you die and out town, you still WIN! Do not ask advice just hurt or heal someone.

We are not playing Survivor, the idea of the game is not to last, it is to kill scum (we only have 4 left)...even if you die and are town, you still WIN! Do not ask advice just hurt or heal someone or do nothing.

We are not playing Survivor, the idea of the game is not to last, it is to kill scum (we only have 4 to 5 left)...even if you die and are town, you still WIN if all scum die! Do not ask advice just hurt or heal someone or do nothing. I do have the most damage at the moment, so please feel free to hurt me if you think I am scum!

The three posts in one post, for posterity's sake in case Fla does delete two of them.

[Kinetic]

You know, just before I answered roflcopter's post, I was thinking about how hard Shinnen_no_Me had fought against concentrating fire. I remembered that some other people had taken the same stance... and lo, one of them is Kinetic.

Whoa Bullshit? I've been catching up, but this is the biggest load of bullshit that I've read yet.

I supported SPREADING OUT DAMAGE day 1. Really. That is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I supported.

Hell, quoted in your OWN POST TO NAIL ME TO THIS is the opposite of this....

By making sure we're not spreading damage we can make it so rage dumps are few and far between. [...]

By making sure we are NOT SPREADING DAMAGE!!!! READ THAT AGAIN. IT IS the DIRECT opposite of your claim against me. I don't even need to go back and re-read myself to find what I know is obvious and prove it. You've done it for me.

I'm starting to think the rest of this wagon might be bullshit too.

----

As for Fonz: You're trying to nail hypocrisy to me. Not so much. You're comparing early day one mind frame against my current mind frame. Some things have changed in my mind since then. I used to hate macaroni and cheese when I was 11, now I love it.

Is it hypocrisy that my thoughts and feelings have changed and evolved over time to something else? If I made a dramatic change, that might be hypocrisy, but that isn't how it is.

Plus, my feelings haven't changed as drastically as you've indicated.

We have had two players today hurt a previously injured player with no support. Kinetic and Zwet. Kinetic looks like an enormous hypocrite to me for this, since Kinetic is second only to Tajo in counselling about the dangers of 'just hurting who you think is scum.' I want to know why Tajo, if he really is opposed to 'random damage' is ignoring this.

I've been pushing for Viq for a while. My scumdar has pretty much locked in on him. I looked over the list of people who were "already hurt", and I found Viq scummier than all of them. I have said this multiple times, since 'Day 1'. I still find him enormously scummy.

The fact is though, that on and off I've had support from other players for this, but it has wavered a little bit. It got to the point where I felt that the scumdar of certain players (rofl, yourself, ABR) I felt might not be as strong as the three of you are feeling.

Don't forget, I was on the Shinnen lynched very early, and it wasn't until my hurt that it became a landslide to lynch, and pushed it with all of you, just as much, if not more. You all took enormous credit for the lynch, but for the most part I stepped back and started looking for another scum. You all locked onto Hoopla and quick-lynched him. I didn't step in and say anything because I wasn't sure on Hoopla.

If he came up scum, I would have thought one of two things. Either A) You three were REALLY on your games, and I'd be watching. or B) One or more of you are scum lynching buddies for town cred.

Since he came up town I think one of two things has happened, either A) You're town and just in the euphoria of a good lynch you trusted your instincts too much and over extended, or B) One or more of you is scum and are thinking since you've lynched a scum you have enough cred to push through a couple mislynches and not have to worry about how it makes you look.

Based on the way ALL THREE of you reacted after the Shinnen lynch, since the Hoopla lynch I have felt maybe one of you could be scum. I'm still unsure though. DGB had brought up some interesting points on ABR, but at the same time this is not the DGB I'm used to seeing. The problem with that is most games I've played with DGB have been when she is scum. So seeing a different side of her may indicate townie-ness...

Another thing I have noticed about town lead mis-lynches, they don't give very much information. The less people who hurt someone, the more the scum can hide away from mis-lynches. Hell, Hoopla was killed before I even cool downed from my last hurt on Shinnen. That was quick.

Anyway, I still intend to continue against Viq. It is important to me to see if my own scumdar is off or not right now.

I'm sure if Viq will come up scum some people will say it is a bus (maybe that is what this is setting up for now). I'm sure if viq comes up town I'm going to be pushed toward lynch (maybe that is what is being set up now).

I don't know what the case against me is coming from and why it is being picked up like it is. But I am town and I know tha I feel ViQ is scum. So before I'm killed I'm going to push for his death.

Bleh this is a long post, and I've had a difficult last day or two, so I'm sure I should re-read this and edit it, but I'm too damn tired.

[Kinetic]

Hell, quoted in your OWN POST TO NAIL ME TO THIS is the opposite of this....

Yes, I left it in because you contradicted yourself. You said we should concentrate damage, then called my post scummy for saying so.

Umm, no I didn't... I never posted why I said your post was scummy. The reason I had issue with it was not because you advocated for few players to be targeted, but because you were also against the voting mechanism to choose those players as well.

Basically you were for the first players who harmed anyone to lead the lynches, because once X number of players were harmed you were for making sure they would die before anyone else was harmed.

I had issue with your post because it gave no alternatives.

Assume the situation: Player A, Player B, and You have 5 damage, no one else have any damage on them. You feel that player A and player B are town, and you know yourself is town (in this hypothetical situation, I don't exactly feel you are town right now). By YOUR logic in that post you felt that yourself, player A, and Player B must be killed before any scummy player is harmed.

That's why I had issue, and its a HUGE strawman to say I had issue with your post only because you advocated concentrated fire when I have PUSHED for consensus lynches the WHOLE GAME. My issue was not WHAT you advocated, but HOW you advocated and what your plan entailed.

[Kinetic]

Except that what I was advocating is

exactly what we're doing now

. It doesn't seem to be working so badly.

No you weren't. And no it isn't. And even if it was, I don't agree with your assessment of the current situation.

The town is being bullrushed by four players (you, ABR, Fonz, and Rofl), and honestly you guys have had limited success, and what success your group has is questionable. You're going around acting confirmed, when none of you are, and quashing anyone who stands up against you as scummy and the next person on your list to kill.

As it stands, two of the four players with damage (Julz, Drench) were personally attacked by you first, and the third (Walt) has your pushing for more damage. The only person with no damage by you, and with little help from your group is Zwet.

I'm sorry, but this doesn't fly with me. Too much power in the hands a of SMALL group of players is not how I play. I do want more consensus, ESPECIALLY on mislynches.

[Kinetic]

I do want more mislynches, ESPECIALLY ones with consensus.

Fixed.

-.- I'm really starting to question your alignment Xyl.

[Kinetic]

Not to mention, Xyl, that the plan that Fonz created and that you support, is one that is inherently better for scum than town.

i.e. Scum can get one of their buddies to support them on the first hurt, once they have that original support, and the player is below normal health, by your plan they need to then die.

You're making the PERFECT set up for scum to set up mislynches with little to no accountability.

Yet, on the FIRST lynch, You, Fonz, Rofl, and ABR danced and claimed responsibly for killing Shinnen like it was all you guys.

I'd like everyone to read that lynch again, read the pages, who was the turning point in that lynch? After which hurt did the town finally jump on board and start mass hurting him?

I'll give you a hint, before my hurt two players had MORE damage on them then Shinnen:

Colors help?

FOURTH DAMAGE TALLY OF THE TWELFTH ÆON

Albert B. Rampage, Nuwen, populartajo, q21, Seraphim, vIQleS, and WeyounsLastClone are at 1 HP above their normal maximum.

Drench, DrippingGoofball, Giuseppe, Juls, Kinetic, Tenchi, and The Fonz are all at normal HP.

Xylthixlm has 1 damage.
roflcopter, Shinnen_no_Me, and zwetschenwasser have 2 damage each.
Hoopla and WaltWishbone have 3 damage each.

I damaged Shinnen after this post. Hoopla and Wishbone had more damage on them and Rofl and Zwet both had equal damage. Out of those five I chose to hurt Shinnen and tipped the scales toward his death.

Where were you and your merry gang??

# Shinnen_no_Me - Hurt by: Albert B. Rampage, The Fonz, Kinetic, DrippingGoofball? (3) Healed by: Seraphim (1)

# WaltWishbone - Hurt by: DrippingGoofball, Xylthixlm, Nuwen, Xylthixlm (4) Healed by: vIQleS (1)

# Hoopla - Hurt by: Albert B. Rampage, roflcopter x2 (3) Healed by: (0)

Between 9 am March 23 and 10 PM March 23, three players hurt Shinnen:

FIFTH DAMAGE TALLY OF THE TWELFTH ÆON

Albert B. Rampage, Nuwen, populartajo, q21, Seraphim, vIQleS, and WeyounsLastClone are at 1 HP above their normal maximum.

Drench, DrippingGoofball, Giuseppe, Juls, Kinetic, Tenchi, and The Fonz are all at normal HP.

Xylthixlm has 1 damage.
roflcopter and zwetschenwasser have 2 damage each.
Hoopla and WaltWishbone have 3 damage each.
Shinnen_no_Me has 6 damage.

They were:

Albert B. Rampage, Seraphim, q21

Albert jumps RIGHT back to Shinnen once he becomes a viable lynch. I'm starting to suspect Albert's original hurt on Shinnen was a distancing, and when his scum buddy was a very highly viable lynch, he jumped on the bus.

You jump on Shinnen near the end with Julz:

Juls, Xylthixlm

And the whole thing is finalized:
Nuwen x2, The Fonz, Rofl x2

Rofl actually over damaged if he is indeed a Seraphim, which is ironic, but w/e.

------

Anyway, after this all, you want to know my scumlist:

Viq, ABR, Xyl, Julz

You four are the highest.

I'm waiting for the Walt kill to come through, most likely you three will kill him before anything else can happen. Depending on what he flips will show how I feel.

Honorable mentions: Rofl, for being too aggressive, but right now he's low on my possible scum list.

As for the Fonz, despite being in your group, in my re-read I found him the LEAST scummy of the group, although I'm starting to feel that he could be scum.

[Kinetic]

WOW...

Ironically enough, from Xyl's responses I feel he's less likely being scum, and by Rofl's I think he's MORE likely to be scum...

Maybe I should update my list...

[Kinetic]

I'm going to ask for this:

If players think I am town of equal weight as Julz, Rofl, or Albert think I am scum, or if you feel more likely that Julz, Rofl, or Albert is scum and I am town, please Heal me.

We do need to use this heal mechanism and we cannot be afraid to use it. Yes, it may increase the time for lynches, but it will also stop scummy players from taking over the game.

The only way we're going to force a consensus with players who are being so aggressive they won't listen to reason is when people who wish to harm someone outnumber the players who wish to heal someone.

[Kinetic]

Supported?

Three players are pushing for it.

More than 3 players have called me town or claim very highly that they think I'm town.

If more players think I'm town than think I'm scum, they should have a say. The current rules give them no recourse.

Right now 3 players, any three players, can kill someone with no recourse.

Interestingly, that seems like a great way to let scum win.

[Kinetic]

And I should add, one of those three players is merely a puppet. 2 players are supporting my lynch.

[Kinetic]

I want to strangle Juls. Is that normal?

At this point, and considering its you, I'd say its par for the course.

[Kinetic]

I want to strangle Juls. Is that normal?

At this point, and considering its you, I'd say its par for the course.

Yes, but doctor, it's much worse. Like Wile E. Coyote wants to do with the Road Runner, I don't want to kill her for food, I want to blow her up into unrecognizable subatomic particles.

lol. DGB why have you not won funniest player award?

[Kinetic]

How about this DGB, I think you can get behind it:

Intent to hurt puppets

[Kinetic]

Hmm - I thought I posted but it doesn't seem to have gone through.

hurt:walt

. Lets get that out of the way, and then we can kill juls or X.

lol.

I just thought of something:

Anyone who hurts Walt at this point, including any of our other claimed Seraphim, can no longer claim to be town confirmed or believe that our claimed Seraphim, namely rofl or nuwen, are town confirmed.

By hurting Walt you consent to the possibility that Seraphim can still be scum even though we've killed one that was scum. Thus, there is no way you can use the fact that Rofl or Nuwen are Seraphim as a reason for them being town again.

And thus, any Seraphim who later claim to be Seraphim who are hiding now, if they hurt Walt after this point, they are just was well claiming there could be scum Seraphim still alive...

You must argue on the merits of their play, and not their role to confirm them at this point.

[Kinetic]

Wishbone's claim complicates my setup predictions. 2 town Seraphim: 2 scum Seraphim makes quite a bit of sense - if Walt flips scum and his Seraph claim is correct, I wouldn't be surprised. The mini mainted a 1:1 ratio. However, if he does flip town, I'm split between going after Rofl or just proceeding down the laundry list of scummy players (Juls next). The mini's setup used 2 town Ophanim and zero scum, so it's plausible that there's uneven role distribution between the two alignments (3 town to 1 scum Seraphim).

From a scum perspective, it doesn't make sense for Walt to push confirmed town status for Rolf as me, unless he's partners with one of us (Rofl, from my vantage). However, I really doubt the existence of 3 scum Seraphim to 1 town Seraph.

Either way, I don't know if the Seraph role can still be used as town confirmation.

I don't endorse healing of any kind until we figure out what to do with Walt and we move from the killing phase back into the post-kill discussion phase.

The reason I'm suggesting it is because some players (ABR, Julz, Rofl) have skipped the "finish off phase" and have gone directly to begin killing me.

The fact that Walt's flip doesn't even matter to them after they pushed him so far is very very, well annoying for one, and scummy for another.

[Kinetic]

Anyway, set-up distribution predictions are pretty null imo. If I were making this set-up I'd make a set number of roles (maybe 4 Sera, 10 Cherub, 3 Orpham, and 3 elim), and then randomly choose 5 to be the scum roles.

[Kinetic]

The reason I'm suggesting it is because some players (ABR, Julz, Rofl) have skipped the "finish off phase" and have gone directly to begin killing me.

I'm sorry I let you down with that heal, but the urge to

hurl vomit with lots of corn kernels: Juls

overwhelmed me completely.

I'll reconsider in 24 hours...

Its understandable. I'm more afraid of rofl realizing he could have outed himself by pushing wishbone (if wishbone does flip town) and him going for broke trying to kill me before we learn about it.

[Kinetic]

Its understandable. I'm more afraid of rofl realizing he could have outed himself by pushing wishbone (if wishbone does flip town) and him going for broke trying to kill me before we learn about it.

Can you explain that again, this time, with the assumption that I have a IQ of 12?

Based on Nuwen's assumption that Seraphim can be equally distributed, and rofl being one of the scum, Rofl, knowing Wishbone will flip town wasn't a big deal. However, him flipping town and SERAPHIM means that there are atleast 4 in the game.

This means there will be doubt on rofl's claim of seraphim, which has given him the "confirmed town" protection since the Shinnen lynch.

Knowing that his game may be ending soon, he's switched targets in an attempt to burn a townie before Walt is flipped and his alignment is revealed so that Rofl can at least kill two townies before he is then turned on by the town.

Does that make better sense? Its all based on assumptions of assumptions, but it fits logically if those are the flips. It means nothing if Walt is indeed scum.

Here is something I just thought of though... what if the mafia are trying to trick the town that there is another Seraphim and using secret damage to do so.

The only player that this couldn't stick to is rofl, based on how many times he's used his double damage so far, but this could keep distribution relatively even while making Nuwen's and Walts claims a little more suspicious...

[Kinetic]

OK, I follow what you're saying. It's largely conjecture, but something to *cough*

cover with mayonnaise: Juls

*cough cough* look back upon once we have more data.

exactly

[Kinetic]

Yes. Look back at his interactions and they do not match up with his claim especially when he was arguing back and forth with ABR. There's a high likelihood that he is scum or fakeclaiming.

We can prove he is a Seraphim, right?

We can prove that either he is a Seraphim OR one of the scum spent a rage point on me.

Actually, if scum spent a rage point of you, we would know since Wishbone's cool down wouldnt be the one from a Seraphim using his blade. We can test him.

Good call. Force Walt to damage someone, anyone, when the 24 hour cooldown would happen. Flay would confirm his claim based on what we've seen so far.

[Kinetic]

Just checked, 2:35 AM this morning... bleh, that is a long time...

[Kinetic]

I'm not for keeping Walt alive if the consensus is he is scum. I'm thinking of the twenty different things he could do alive that he can't do when dead that would hurt us much more than it will help us.

So what, we might kill someone a little bit faster. Does that outweigh him building up rage points, dumping them, then also throwing his own damage on the heap.

Nonono, If you think Walt is scum there is NO way you can keep him alive, even as a puppet.

[Kinetic]

100%confirmed does not exist.

[Kinetic]

Sabbath

[Kinetic]

Ok. That's too many people with damage. And what do we do with WaltWishbone? I think I believe he's not scum now.

Maybe we should heal players?

Or do you still feel intimidated by Rofl's threats?

[Kinetic]

Ok. That's too many people with damage. And what do we do with WaltWishbone? I think I believe he's not scum now.

roflmao, I was wondering why I wasn't dead yet????

Look, my only act of scum was being argumenative and a smartass in my opinion... and probably getting drunk and posting was not smart. So, yeah, sorry I was just trying to keep up with everyone else's wit.. I dont want to be eliminated, I think its a mistake (since 2 of the 3 seraphim have to be town) and the scum will go after me with their first rage points anyways I would think. I would like to stick around until my next turn (3pm tomorrow) so I can heal rofl (as I promised) and get him 1hp above where we started if the town agrees. Anyways, I was suppossed to be sleeping tonight not playing here. lol.

I'm almost willing to heal you walt.

Here is the catch: Hurt yourself after 3 am. I will then heal you. If you are seraphim than the hurt will not go through and I will then heal you. If you aren't seraphim the hurt will kill you and my heal will fail.

[Kinetic]

heal:walt

[Kinetic]

... I'm still interested in Walt's flip. Why are we healing a wagoned player during the damage phase, wasting both cooldowns and time? Xyl was not the sole supporter of his lynch.

You and rofl are both Seraphim as well. If you are unafraid of his flip you can still kill him.

[Kinetic]

hurt: kinetic

with mah fire blade

Seriously rofl... -.-

How many players are going to let him just single handedly do this and then bully you into not healing.

You know I am town.

Ask yourself, among the three claimed Seraphim, of which are Walt, Numen, and Rofl, who is the one most likely to be scum?

GROW SOME BALLS TOWN!

[Kinetic]

I'm just throwing this out there: I don't have anything concrete yet but I wonder if there's anyone willing to back me up on an ABR hurt.

I hereby support hurts on the scum group, which is ABR, Rofl, Viq, Julz

Rofl the fact that you're counting Julz as your back up is SOOOOOOOOO INCREDIBLY scummy. You're actually claiming a LURKER who fully claims not to be reading the game to be your back up?

ABR: Pshaw. He hasn't done anything SINCE THE SHINNEN LYNCH. He's obviously staying off mislynches now. Wonder why...

Oddly, I almost feel like Rofl could be town, but he's such an aggravating person I realize that town has 0 chance of winning while he is left to his own devices...

He's letting Super scummy people direct his actions and not even giving two shits about it.

He's pushed multiple hurts around randomly, is acting eccentric, and generally doing WHATEVER THE HELL HE WANTS with NO ACCOUNTABILITY and the whole town is LETTING HIM...

God... If people don't stop this raving lunatic eventually its going to be too late...

Since I'm going to be dead soon I'm intending on spending my last moments hurting Rofl. If I get heals the more hurts I get on Rofl. We need a concerted effort to remove this player from the game. His anti-town agenda cannot be condoned any longer!

[Kinetic]

The problem with killing Rofl is how he's almost confirmed town at this point. I would love to kill him for his play but killing a nearly confirmed town power role would be amazingly difficult.

If I am to die and you learn nothing from my death, learn this:

ROFL IS NOT, AND NEVER WILL BE, CONFIRMED TOWN.

At BEST he has a 50% chance of being town and being scum.

Right now there is 4 total claimed seraphim, one who is dead and scum. There is debate, could there be two scum seraphim and two town seraphim, or is it 3 town seraphim and 1 scum seraphim?

There is no other choices. That means, WHILE THERE IS A CHANCE ANOTHER SCUM can be Seraphim, there is a CHANCE Rofl is scum. There are 2 possibilities available, and in one of the Rofl not only can, but most likely IS SCUM.

I'd also like to point out how late Rofl was on the Shinnen bandwagon... Mayhaps his was the bus?

LOOK at Rofl's place since Walt revealed as Seraphim. He's made a DRAMATIC change. He went from confirmed town, acting aloof, to a raging LUNATIC!

God -.-;;;;

[Kinetic]

Let the Rabid dog run free of his chain then and kill you all.

[Kinetic]

Let the Rabid dog run free of his chain then and kill you all.

You may as well use your scumhunting techniques to find obvscum target soon. Attacking rolf, that I think has small probs of being scum, is not the way to go.

If you haven't realized it yet I'm not caring anymore about this game. I've done everything I can and yet the town is still letting one player just kill me with no recourse, no case, and nothing.

So whatever you want.

If the town grows some balls I'll actually care again. Until then I've resigned the fact that it doesn't matter.

[Kinetic]

Let the Rabid dog run free of his chain then and kill you all.

You may as well use your scumhunting techniques to find obvscum target soon. Attacking rolf, that I think has small probs of being scum, is not the way to go.

If you haven't realized it yet I'm not caring anymore about this game. I've done everything I can and yet the town is still letting one player just kill me with no recourse, no case, and nothing.

So whatever you want.

If the town grows some balls I'll actually care again. Until then I've resigned the fact that it doesn't matter.

You are basically telling the town to go against someone the majority thinks is town. its not going to work.
It sucks to be attacked for no reason but you are not doing you any favor. If you are town, find another way to prove you are.

The majority of the town thinks I'm town and that isn't stopping him.

Pity.

[Kinetic]

I'd also like to point out how late Rofl was on the Shinnen bandwagon...

Mayhaps his was the bus?

Im not an English native speaker but am I wrong if I say that in this sentece Kinetic admits that there was a bus in the Shinnen wagon?

Admits? That's a stretch. And its not something I can confirm or deny, I'd have to be scum to know the answer to that.

Merely an observation that if there was a bus (of which I am far from the first person to bring that up), it can certainly be concluded that Rofl was the one driving it.

[Kinetic]

The majority of the town thinks I'm town and that isn't stopping him.

Pity.

I'm more annoyed by the fact that roflcopter doesn't recognize my awesomeness.

I recognize you're a coward, does that help?

[Kinetic]

The Buddy System isn't being used. How can we enforce it?

Hurt Zwet or Kinetic. They're the ones who hurt without making a case or waiting for support. THE WHOLE BLOODY POINT OF THE BUDDY SYSTEM IS TO REQUIRE PEOPLE TO MAKE CASES AND CANVAS FOR SUPPORT BEFORE THE HURTING STARTS.

You system is incredibly biased towards Scum and doesn't work. Despite Rofl having very little support and the MAJORITY of the town being on my side I'm still most likely going to die. That is bullshit. Plain and simple.

I like that word DGB, wikitells, all this appeal to this, appeal to that, logical fallacies, if we wanted to play a game where we did nothing but name them off I could play that game too. However its a distraction from the truth.

Rofl is not town. He might not be mafia if all of you are correct about him being confirmed town (I don't believe it) but he is not acting in the town's best interests in the slightest. Despite EVERYONE asking him to stop, I just KNOW when his cooldown is up he is going to hurt me again.

-.- The only way I'm not going to die is if the town grows so balls and finally tells him "No! You cannot act with abandon and play erratically and expect to get a free pass based on some possible role bullshit that there is no way to prove." The fact that you are is complete bullshit.

Anyone who is calling me town and continuing to not heal me and let Rofl kill me is just signing their own ticket.

If he is scum, how long before he turns on you and with the methodology of "let him kill who he wants and don't stop him", you're going to die too and nothing is going to stop that.

If he is town, how long before you finally leash the dog that keeps killing everyone with NO consensus except MAYBE one or two people who are JUST AS SCUMMY AS HE IS!

THIS IS NOT A RACE! THIS IS NOT A RACE!

We should not be RACING rofl for kills. This is not Rofl gets a kill then the town gets a kill. Rofl is replacing the mafia kills as he sees fit, why are you letting him do this!?!?!?!?

List of people who feel I am town:
Nuwen
DGB
Pop
Xyl

Thinks I'm at least neutral
Guiseppe

All the Kinetic hurts are largely from copter, with a few from ABR and Juls???

That's ridiculous. I protest.

I DO TOO, SOMEONE HEAL ME SO THEY CAN'T GET AWAY WITH THIS!

The most active players in the game are such:

DGB, pop, Xyl, myself, rofl, nuwen, ABR, Julz (to an extent)

Of them:

DGB, POP, Xyl, Nuwen, and myself are against my wagon

Rofl, ABR, and Julz are for it

I'll use my hurt on Julz, it should make it so that she only have one hurt left.

NO ONE ELSE HURT HER or anyone else.

Please, seriously, Heal me. If you don't, when Rofl comes on he's going to do 2 more damage to me and then I'll be one away from death.

I might as well claim, I'm a cherub. I NEED heals fast. I'm in way too much danger. If you continue to just allow me to die you're making a huge mistake.

Pop, DGB, and Xyl should heal me, Myself and Nuwen should do damage. It is the ONLY way to stop this wagon and continue to scum hunt. Hell at this point I'll tie my hurts to the consensus of whoever heals me.

This game is extremely disheartening. I'm nearly dead and despite the majority of the town thinking I'm town you're going to let a player, who you think is AT BEST neutral kill me. What IS THAT! It makes no sense.

[Kinetic]

BTW: It should be noted, although I hate to say it-

If I am not healed, the players most responsible for my death are not the ones who kill me, but the ones who refuse to heal me.

If you call me town, refuse to heal me, let me die, you do NOT get to claim an I told you so after I die. Anyone who does is SCUM!

[Kinetic]

Because I am town DGB...and if you weren't scum you would be saying it too.

I'm sorry if you are Julz, but you've done nothing in this game to earn the benefit of the doubt. You should have replaced out of this game when Flay gave the free replace with no health damage back in your role PM.

[Kinetic]

Because I am town DGB...and if you weren't scum you would be saying it too.

I'm sorry if you are Julz, but you've done nothing in this game to earn the benefit of the doubt. You should have replaced out of this game when Flay gave the free replace with no health damage back in your role PM.

What are you talking about?

If you replied to your role pm with a "Replace me" instead of confirm, your replacement would not have had any health damage as a result... Didn't you read your role PM?

[Kinetic]

@ Kinetic - when can you next use an action, hurt/heal?

I think not until tomorrow afternoon. I need to check, I want to say around Noon today is when I last used it to Heal Walt before he was killed.

[Kinetic]

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:28 am Post subject: 71 Reply with quote
heal:walt

That was when I did it, so I'll kill Julz at 8:29 AM. I'll be awake. (so T-minus 7.5 hours from now).

[Kinetic]

IF I was scum, I wouldn't be overreacting because the town is fighting a losing battle because its completely divided now.

The only reason I'm tripping is because I AM town, and you're fucking things up for the town. If Fonz, tajo, copter, firestarter, and anyone else -that I've probably attacked no less- think I'm scum, then fine, I'll go down quietly.

But if 3 bumbling idiots think I'm scum, then hell yeah, its on. I'm gonna bring the scum crashing.

I agree with you so much.

Except in my case the three bumbling idiots are you Julz and Rofl.

Can you understand all of a sudden?

[Kinetic]

people need to stop healing bitches right now. when i get home i'll decide who is getting a piping hot serving of justice.

QFT

and hurt hoopla

Wow ABR, I thought you were opposed to healing. I guess that doesn't apply when it's your scumbuddies doing it.

Clarification:

healing bitches = healing kinetic

Intent to hurt is negated by Intent to heal, so if there are more people who WANT to heal me, you can't hurt me.

You hurt me even though Xyl had an intent to heal on me. You're not playing by your own rules.

[Kinetic]

people need to stop healing bitches right now. when i get home i'll decide who is getting a piping hot serving of justice.

QFT

and hurt hoopla

Wow ABR, I thought you were opposed to healing. I guess that doesn't apply when it's your scumbuddies doing it.

Clarification:

healing bitches = healing kinetic

Intent to hurt is negated by Intent to heal, so if there are more people who WANT to heal me, you can't hurt me.

You hurt me even though Xyl had an intent to heal on me. You're not playing by your own rules.

That's unfair.

I told Xyl that I wanted to hurt you so that would cancel his heal. The response I got was "I don't negotiate with scum".

What do you think about Xyl Kinetic?

I've gone off and on about both you and Xyl all game. At this point, and lately (say the last 20 or so pages) I've been getting townie vibes from him.

Let me turn it right back on you: What do you think about Rofl?

[Kinetic]

Let me turn it right back on you: What do you think about Rofl?

Less town than Fonz, more town than most of the other players here. Shinnen pretty much convinced me he wasn't in league with the fallen.

The thing is, Kinetic, you're either scum or a puppet of all the scum (xyl, dgb) as per my observations.

Xyl and dgb pretty much orchestrated the Walt lynch, and now they're trying to go after me.

You and dgb have obvious connections, like how she magically realizes that scum have hurt because of

your

post, which she tries to use as a springboard to attack me.

Those are the main reasons I'm trying to kill you, not to mention that I'll be more useful to the town than you even if you were town since you seem to be supporting all the scum IMO.

Wow...

So let me get this straight: You ALSO feel that I am town, yet you're pushing to kill me anyway?

Uh... me, DGB, Guiseppe, Kinetic... I count four bumbling idiots.

Three once Kinetic is dead. The only reason scum want to heal him would be so that he can hurt me. You killed Walt because you didn't want him to heal me. Well now I'm going to take your puppet or partner Kinetic away from you. I'm gonna come after all of you scumbags and mess you up after he's dead.

That makes no sense. The efficient scum way to deal with this would be to let you kill me and kill you anyway. They're wasting efficiency to heal me instead of killing you outright.

[Kinetic]

Yeah and that's really clever, dgb healing kinetic, having her hurt transferred to him in the process, losing nothing.

This is why I support copter; he's a necessary evil. Sure he does what he wants, but he gets results.

He's scum or at BEST anti-town. He needs to be put down like the rabid dog he is.

The fact that you admit to this doesn't make you less responsible.

[Kinetic]

Kin you make up horrible plans for the town on day 1, then you do something good like helping shinnen lynch, then you try to hurt players that are town or very townish. I have no choice to put you down before you fuck up the whole game for the town by going after the wrong people.

Remember 24 Mafia, how you fucked us all up? I was going after the scum, and you practically allied yourself with all of them, and in the end we lost.

Umm, I thought it might, but I never dreamed it, the you would STILL be pissed off about that game!....

HOLY SHIT!

I was SCUM in 24 mafia... I won, get over it. Holding a grudge this long is bad for you.

-.- WOW. Not to mention that was my FIRST GAME EVER on this site. Do you honestly believe that my play has evolved not at all since then....

Read my other games, I'd suggest Freaktown, you'll see that my actions are much closer to that in this game than 24 mafia.

And I disagree. It is YOUR plans so far this game that have no provided any results.

[Kinetic]

Oh right. You were scum. Riiiight. Well I was right in wanting you dead in that game, and I am right in wanting you dead in this game.

No you're not. You're forgetting the convenient that was TWO YEARS AGO, and since then my play has evolved from that crappy-ness (I was horrid in that game, I cringe when re-reading it) to winning two scummies, one for overall town play the other for scum (replacement scum, but still scum).

If you're reading that I'm playing the same way, you're SO FAR OFF the chart it is funny really.

[Kinetic]

If you're as good as you claim to be, you wouldn't be backing xyl. Therefore, you're probably a very clever scum player...amirite

If you and Rofl are town and as good as you think you are you shouldn't be attacking me. Don't throw that burden of proficiency bullshit at me unless you want to be judged by the same measuring stick.

[Kinetic]

I can't believe how some people have the guts to say that I'm "coasting" from the shinnen lynch, when there are lurkers who are coasting for doing nothing. Its complete hypocrisy and frankly speaking I see two of them ganging up on me and taking a couple townies on board. I'm such a threat to them.

Great change of subject scum.

[Kinetic]

I can't believe how some people have the guts to say that I'm "coasting" from the shinnen lynch, when there are lurkers who are coasting for doing nothing. Its complete hypocrisy and frankly speaking I see two of them ganging up on me and taking a couple townies on board. I'm such a threat to them.

Great change of subject scum.

Its a subject you don't want to talk about huh?

You rather just proclaim me scum, like they did with Walt, without any evidence?

You don't want to talk about your bullshit coasting case, I can understand that.

Haha. Good try. You're losing when you take me head on, so you change the subject and then try and make it seem like I have something to hide when in fact it is you who are trying to avoid the subject at hand.

And really, do you want to go there? You did the same thing with Hoopla sir. So don't go acting holier than thou on my account.

As for me coasting. Really? Really? Have you READ my posts. I've taken a stand on EVERY issue. Most of them not popular, but I've taken my stands where I felt they were needed when the opposite was anti-town. While you haven't taken a single unpopular stand until you felt it might kill you.

Then all of a sudden, healing is a good thing.

Really now ABR... really...

[Kinetic]

First of all, get over yourself, please?

Can I get under myself then? Oooooo kinky.

Ok I'll stop now, I just couldn't resist, lol.

Second, you accuse me of coasting. You say I don't take an unpopular stand.

Well lynching you looks pretty unpopular, there's just a handful of people that suspect you (firestarter, me, rofl).

Which goes against YOUR plan. And it goes against my sentiments on how we can win this game. We need MORE of a consensus than two people when there are 17 (soon to be 16) left alive.

Firestarter? Really. He has one post from talking about the first ten pages, and his 'suspicion' is lackluster at best. And seeing as he just joined the party I hardly think he counts.

I also went after the lurkers, which I was accused of as "not sticking to anything".

Really? I'm a lurker too now? Which lurkers pray tell have you nailed again?

Healing is not a good thing, I never said it was. What I said in my post was that Intent to Heal me, cancels Intent to hurt me.

Except in your case, where an intent to heal means nothing. You hurt me AFTER an intent to heal negated your hurt. Julz and Rofl hurt me SECONDS after your initial intent to hurt before ANY discussion on the matter. You're telling me that doesn't look planned to you?

Kinetic you just want to hurt me because I'm hurting you. Seriously, get over yourself. Grow up.

No, I want to hurt you because your play, your hypocrisies, your attitude, and the company you keep reek of scum.

Stop saying it is for any other reason.

[Kinetic]

1) Lurkers: I went after Drench.

After he was replaced? Little late on the ball there kiddo.

2) Your defenders refused to negate me.

Intent to Heal: Kinetic

Negated by me

Works both ways. If you negate his heal, he also negates your hurt. That didn't stop you from hurting me two posts later.

3) Firestarter fine, replace with Fonz. Fonz endorses killing you.

Fonz is lackluster at best. He endorses killing me because I don't endorse his system which I claim is anti-town. And he doesn't even endorse killing me because he thinks I'm scummy, but because I brought a player who was 1 over their life total down to their max life total, even though I had support for it.

His is a procedural endorsement. Because I didn't use his method he doesn't want me around. Doesn't that seem at least a little scummy to you? And since Shinnen's death Fonz has been very different, not at all like he was in the early game.

4) What play? What company?

Your play = What you have been doing, how you have been doing it, overly aggressive and refusing to listen to anyone else for any reason and going about how you feel like it at all times.

Your company = Julz and Rofl. We'll learn if Julz is town or scum soon enough, but the fact that you endorsed her play, despite her being WORSE than a lurker is more a mark against you than anything else.

And hell, you've even called Rofl's play rabid. Don't pretend that if he was attacking you that you would lay over and let him gore you.

Here you go:

I AM THE BEST AT MAFIA I WON TWO SCUMMIES

Wow. Misquoting me. Was it you who did it last time too, because I'm feeling de javu about it and I don't feel like looking back.

Also, kind of funny since I'm pretty sure the post you're trying to misquote me on happened AFTER your little wiki-tells list.

Plus, I brought those things up to prove a point, which you haven't rebuked: You're basing my play here on play that happened over two years ago and calling me scummy because of it, despite MISREMEMBERING what happened then.

And as proof that my play has changed since then I presented evidence which states that maybe I'm a lot better now than in my FIRST GAME on the site.

kinetic, i'm interested in your take on the xyl and dgb. take your time re-reading them or whatever you need to do. i can't hurt again until tomorrow night, but depending on your answer i am willing to switch to running a train on that axis of evil instead of finishing you off. your heavily emotional response to what i've been doing is still making me unhappy, but the shenanigans that have happened in the last couple of pages are really just out of control.

Sucks to be you. You're a rabid dog that needs to be put down if the town has any chance of anything.

The fact is I support you dying. Those are questions you should have asked BEFORE you took half my health away.

The only way I'd even consider answering them is if I thought you might be town or have a townie agenda. I don't.

I too would like to leave Kinetic alone and kill off the bigger threats to town. But, he's too stubborn, its a shame he won't change his mind.

Wow. I'm the stubborn one.

You two are playing WAY too reactive and erratic. I said at the BEGINNING OF THE GAME that would lead to a town loss.

You both have done NOTHING to prove otherwise.

I think you're both scum now because of it. And if you're not, I STILL believe the town has a better chance of winning if you're both dead than if you're both still alive.

[Kinetic]

After he was replaced? Little late on the ball there kiddo.

ABR hurt Drench before he was replaced.

O, bleh, This convo is moving way too fast and I should have double checked that.

[Kinetic]

Look, uh....kinetic.

Intent to Heal: Kinetic

Negated by me

Sorry, I'm not going to negate with you, scum.

He refused to cancel our respective actions.

You're reading that different from me. I'm reading that as "I'm going to heal as I see fit not based on what you tell me to do, scum"

[Kinetic]

Look, uh....kinetic.

Intent to Heal: Kinetic

Negated by me

Sorry, I'm not going to negate with you, scum.

He refused to cancel our respective actions.

You're reading that different from me. I'm reading that as "I'm going to heal as I see fit not based on what you tell me to do, scum"

Okay....that's how I read it too. That's why I hurt you.

But you should have waited for the heal then and then hurt me, you didn't. You broke your own rules, and that sir is where the hypocrisy stands. You would have had a leg to stand on then.

You don't.

[Kinetic]

fine kinetic, be stubborn, i'll waste my time finishing you before i move on

You're just as stubborn as I am.

Agree not to be a rabid dog, to act townie, to make townie choices, and I could think of you as something more than scum.

Act as you are, and you need to be put down by any means necessary and I'm not going to stand in the way of that happening.

I'm not going to throw myself on your mercy. You don't control this game. You need to realize that one way or another. If you won't control yourself then you need to die.

All your little reprieve is offering is a way for you to reassert your control over the game.

When we were all on equal footing I opposed you and ABR taking over the game. We could have argued this out in a civil matter and come to an agreement. Instead you tried to kill me.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[Kinetic]

you'll be dying by the sword long before i will

You and your scumbuddies will still die.

[Kinetic]

no, after i'm done cleaning you up, i'll get to work on killing the rest of the scum

So you admit to being scum then?

[Kinetic]

no, after i'm done cleaning you up, i'll get to work on killing the rest of the scum

So you admit to being scum then?

ha

You don't even deny it.

As for ad hom, I attacked your ideas. You attacked me. I defended myself. Not the same thing. If anything, you're the one using Ad hom.

[Kinetic]

I suppose it will be very easy for you to scum hunt though, being scum and all, you were told all their names in your role PM.

[Kinetic]

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

You always struck me as the pansy scholar, pen over sword effeminate type.

And you always struck me as an extremely passive bullied little kid that is acting overaggressive online because you realize deep down that no one loves you.

See, I can play internet psychiatrist too. Back to the game Dr. Freud.

[Kinetic]

no, after i'm done cleaning you up, i'll get to work on killing the rest of the scum

So you admit to being scum then?

ha

You don't even deny it.

As for ad hom, I attacked your ideas. You attacked me. I defended myself. Not the same thing. If anything, you're the one using Ad hom.

what do you want me to say, "no i'm not admitting to being scum"? that was a ridiculous statement to make, so all it got was a laugh.

as for ad hom, calling me a "rabid dog that needs to be put down" is pretty much the definition of ad hom, and more than half of your attacks on me have consisted of simply saying i'm bad for the town and not even in any way arguing for why i would actually be scum.

You're acting irrational, attacking anyone who doesn't agree with you completely, and refusing to be civil and argue merits of your case.

Yes, I do feel the analogy is apt because it is how you are playing. I'm supposed to just take your word that you are town and not question it? All the while you keep hitting me with that sword of yours.

Truth be told, at the beginning I didn't think you were scum. I still don't completely believe it, unless you're exceptional at acting like a complete fool, but you refuse to listen to reason, refuse to gain consensus, are acting like you are the only person who matters, and that kind of play needs to STOP.

If you refuse to stop willingly, then you need to die to be stopped. It is that simple.

[Kinetic]

And you always struck me as an extremely passive bullied little kid that is acting overaggressive online because you realize deep down that no one loves you.

See, I can play internet psychiatrist too. Back to the game Dr. Freud.

Your nebulous sexuality is the reason you bury your identity into video games and fiction.

XD

Only for you my big hunk of a man.

XD

Ok, this needs to stop, I'm laughing now but this could get out of hand and I'd like this game not to get personal. Agreed?

[Kinetic]

no, after i'm done cleaning you up, i'll get to work on killing the rest of the scum

So you admit to being scum then?

ha

You don't even deny it.

As for ad hom, I attacked your ideas. You attacked me. I defended myself. Not the same thing. If anything, you're the one using Ad hom.

what do you want me to say, "no i'm not admitting to being scum"? that was a ridiculous statement to make, so all it got was a laugh.

as for ad hom, calling me a "rabid dog that needs to be put down" is pretty much the definition of ad hom, and more than half of your attacks on me have consisted of simply saying i'm bad for the town and not even in any way arguing for why i would actually be scum.

You're acting irrational, attacking anyone who doesn't agree with you completely, and refusing to be civil and argue merits of your case.

Yes, I do feel the analogy is apt because it is how you are playing. I'm supposed to just take your word that you are town and not question it? All the while you keep hitting me with that sword of yours.

Truth be told, at the beginning I didn't think you were scum. I still don't completely believe it, unless you're exceptional at acting like a complete fool, but you refuse to listen to reason, refuse to gain consensus, are acting like you are the only person who matters, and that kind of play needs to STOP.

If you refuse to stop willingly, then you need to die to be stopped. It is that simple.

another big excuse to kill me even if i'm town.

thats exactly the kind of thing scum try to do all the time.

It is how I play. In this game townies can be just as detrimental to a town winning the game as any scum. Thus if you're going to play in a way that benefits the scum and refuse to do otherwise I'm going to have to kill you.

The difference is I won't be as sad if you flip townie than someone who I thought was scum but really just make mistakes.

Ask Guardian, I've lynched him like 3 times I felt he was town but just made anti-town plays (like one game he claimed doctor, outed the REAL doctor, and then got lynched and was actually a vanilla townie). He needed to die, even though I felt he was most likely a townie. You are the same way.

I've given you a choice. You're too stubborn to take it.

[Kinetic]

kinetic, please please please re-read xylthixlm and report back a fresh evaluation of him. i don't even care if you keep hammering away at the whole roflcopter is a bad dog and he needs to be put down thing, but please look at xyl with fresh eyes.

Bleh, fine.

Give me a couple hours, I'll be back.

[Kinetic]

Yo Kinetic, how about this. I will change my anti-town ways if you analyze Nuwen's profile and re-evaluate what you think of her.

Fine, I'll get her too. At the same time I'm going to look at Rofl and compare the two.

[Kinetic]

Yeah I call for a ceasefire to do a complete re-read.

Can I maybe get some heals then... I really don't like being so perilously close to dying...

[Kinetic]

ok, if you're going to use self meta kinetic, please skim any game i've ever played as town (which is most of my games) and see how i play. might i suggest crackers! mafia? that was a particularly awesome game. that game will also give you a feel for how off dgb is here compared to her town play there.

I have, that's where this gets so difficult. Look back, I've even stated I did earlier. I seriously think you could be town but you going rabid on me isn't helping.

[Kinetic]

I still want to see Julz's flip pretty desperately though...

[Kinetic]

The last few kinetic/ABR posts indicate that the whole debate was fabricated between scumbuddies. I'm upset that Juls isn't lynched yet, and I'll hurt her again later if she isn't dead.

Where does in indicate that?

[Kinetic]

Where does it* indicate that?

[Kinetic]

Yo Kinetic, how about this. I will change my anti-town ways if you analyze Nuwen's profile and re-evaluate what you think of her.

After you resignedly agree to this instead of calling him out on admitting that he's acting antitown.

Honestly, I was getting tired of the whole thing and I wanted to take a nap... However I missed that and it is quite an interesting find.

[Kinetic]

Amazing Zwet. I've just read your entire contribution to this game... Ironically, after 70 pages that was the only original thought yet.

[Kinetic]

What is the issue? I missed something. You think its suspicious that I missed it.

Congrats, you found something I missed. Maybe if you lurked less and played more you could actually catch a of things and come close to making a significant contribution to the game.

[Kinetic]

I plan on killing Julz at 8:30 when my hurt renews. How about healing me instead since I have 6 damage?

[Kinetic]

@Again- if a significant faction want someone dead, they die eventually. If you want to survive, what you need to do is rally support for killing roflcopter. Having your supporters heal you whilst Rofl etc kill you WILL JUST STALL THE GAME WHILST RAGE ACCUMULATES. For like the zillionth time.

That my plan is scum-favoring is the biggest pile of horseshit i've ever heard. Your plan was scum-favoring.

Both plans could potentially favor scum.

Your plan is more likely to cause a significant portion of the town to be hurt at the same time which I fear is a MUCH bigger threat to town because each rage point has more impact.

The conserve hurts and concentrate fire plan has the potential to take a little time, thus allowing a few more rage points to accumulate, however each rage point is reduced in power since in order to kill someone a larger amount of them would be needed to kill.

Thus, I've been sort of Angling for something a little middle of the road:

Concentrate fire, so we don't have a large amount of the town low, through a consensus, but not take a long time to decide this. [/quote]

I mean, I strongly feel Juls is town. But if a significant faction want her dead, she's going to die sooner rather than later. If I try to heal her, rather than

getting on with scumhunting,

the town will lose.

Are Rofl and ABR considered a "significant faction" all of a sudden? Plus, I'm not convinced that they are scum just yet. The problem with this game is that votes cannot be moved very fast and are effectively permanent in some ways.

Healing is a useful mechanic and it should be used in certain cases. When someone that a LARGE MAJORITY of the town feel is town is low in health (Hell, like Walt), healing is a good thing so they cannot be sniped.

Obviously, dealing out hurts left right and centre, rather than isolating one suspect, building a case, then hurting to death is mega scummy.

I support this message.

Yeah I call for a ceasefire to do a complete re-read.

Can I maybe get some heals then... I really don't like being so perilously close to dying...

NO!!! Survival instinct ftl! (if town).

Ummm, no. Right now I'm in range to be killed by VERY few rage points. I'd like a few heals so that I could at least be above that range. Seeing as I can be killed a lot faster than I can be healed, I don't think its an inappropriate request.

O, and

Hurt:Julz

[Kinetic]

If Juls is town, kinetic will die.

I'm most likely going to die anyway, but your scumtell is noted either way.

[Kinetic]

Hmmm... re-read shows one actually-significant thing done by q21 is hurting zwet. Rethink.

May I take this as one of the two sanctions I want to hurt zwet again?

I think you should heal me. You and DGB both. And anyone else who wants to as well. I'd feel a lot better at 2-3 damage than where I'm at now.

[Kinetic]

Kinetic, it's hugely unlikely that you'll be healed enough, unless there's a coalition of players in favor of it. I certainly would could myself as part of this coalition.

Any volunteers?

I just need a couple of heals to get out of danger of a rage dump. Right now given even conservative estimates I can be killed by a rage dump.

If you are willing to heal me, then heal me, otherwise just saying you will (like Xyl did earlier) means very little.

[Kinetic]

Im V/LA until tomorrow, maybe Monday.
I skimmed the last pages. Guys, if something is going to lose the game is THE FUCKING EGOS you all have. GET OVER IT.
Both Kin and ABR are town.
Xyl lost town points like shit. I need to reeavaluate him.

HEAL ME THEN, KK? You will be no longer have a cooldown by the time you return tomorrow. >>

[Kinetic]

I'm hurting ABR or Kinetic later today.

Who's your support for this hurt?

[Kinetic]

After extensively reading rofl and Nuwen I've come to the following realization...

I really don't trust either of them...

>>

I'm starting to wonder if we need to kill another Seraphim and unless he flips scum we might have to kill the other...

But then I'm wondering if they could both be town...

I feel that it is more likely that Nuwen is scum for a few reasons (the claim, in light of Shinnen being scum and the possibility of rofl being confirmed by it, actually looks much more calculated), additionally the walt snipe looks just as calculated (looked like she was trying to get someone else to finish him off, then after I healed him with only her or Rofl able to kill him at that point she finished him off...

Crap... I think Nuwen needs to die next. Despite me wanting Rofl to be scum.

I think if Nuwen flips scum rofl will truly be confirmed this time (much to my dismay -.-), but if she flips town it doesn't exactly mean rofl is scum (but it would raise the possibility).

I still need to do more reading on ABR and Xyl.

Also, more people should heal me. I'm at (-5) right now, I need to be at (-3 or -2) to get me out of range for a rage dump. There is a LARGE amount of players (virtually everyone but zwet at this point) who feel I'm town. While we're deciding on a target, a few people can use a couple cooldowns to get me out of this hole. I'm sure we can decide on a good target by tomorrow and then start hurting them tonight and finish them up tomorrow.

[Kinetic]

Are Rofl and ABR considered a "significant faction" all of a sudden? Plus, I'm not convinced that they are scum just yet.

Right now all three of you look town.

What is this I sense? Is dgb losing the support of the intelligent players that were backing her hurts?

Julz's flip helped your case. That being said I still feel DGB is more than likely town.

[Kinetic]

Julz's flip helped your case. That being said I still feel DGB is more than likely town.

Maybe she is. Shame on her if she's town.

I wouldn't have killed Julz if I didn't feel DGB had a solid case. Her lurking and following of you had many more scum implications, some of them didn't even matter if you were town or not.

However, I do have to ask you this: Why didn't you have more of an issue with it.

The way I see it, a townie would have a lot more issue with Julz behaivior than a scum would. But you really had no issue with it at all...

That seems a bit odd honestly ABR.

[Kinetic]

I don't have an issue with it because I understand how an articulate, mature player with a real life can see me as town. I understand it perfectly.

So you're telling me if I was scum and just endlessly supported you, I'd win the game and you'd lose?

[Kinetic]

Where the hell did Viq go?

[Kinetic]

Every dead player has acted scummy so far. I want to use my hurts and heals wisely and with backing from other players. So, when it's clear that there is a large amount of town consensus of a scummy player or I think the paticular player is scummy, I will go after them.

That sounds INCREDIBLY scummy.

Are you normally this complacent and unable to form a unique opinion?

[Kinetic]

intent to hurt viq

[Kinetic]

To be fair, I haven't tried to kill you yet, unless you're counting 24 mafia as "in the past"

[Kinetic]

Bah, I saw that coming

[Kinetic]

Seriously, this game was lost because of players like rofl and ABR not letting the town fucking think.

-.-;;;;;

I knew DGB was scum, but hell I let her live because honestly by the time it got to me I'd given up on this game.

[Kinetic]

Was DGB a Ophan then? She got me - before I revealed... Lucky guess?

Sorry, yes, first post is updated. DGB was a Fallen Ophan, and she caught you right out of the gate. Fallen team had two Seraphs (Shinnen, Nuwen), an Arel (Giuseppe/Yosarian2), and a weak power role (Ophan). The Ophan was specifically designed to catch (Satan and) town Ophanim, as someone suggested in thread.

Whoever said it before, I agree, I think this game was lost because of aggressive players on both town and scum sides. If this igame had been played at a normal pace I think more (including me) could have got more involved. Instead it was in turbo mode the whole friggin time.

I agree. I think this is simultaneously the second-longest Large Theme Game on the site, and the fastest Large Game

ever

(haven't verified that part yet). Town almost totally ignored its most powerful ability, Healing, in favor of ultrafast kills, and most of those had nothing near a consensus. Several people actually had really good ideas for how to utilize the setup by pseudovoting or mass healing between lynches, but the people driving their 'vig' kills made the rest of you panick, I think. Yes, just like the first game.

That was actually part of my balancing act for this game, actually. See, after Shinnen died the Fallen team

could not kill outright

six of the fifteen Loyal roles, or Satan/Michael (I'm still laughing over that claim). If you'd topped everyone up and stayed focused on killing one person at a time, there'd have been almost nothing they could do to kill pro-town-looking angels. DGB and Giuseppe could each store a maximum of 3 Rage, and Nuwen could store 4. That's only 10 HP damage; they'd have to do three more in-thread before they could kill a Seraph or Arel or Metatron. That's why I couldn't confirm anybody directly to Tenchi; confirmed Loyal Angels would have totally thrown the game for Fallen.

God, how many times did I say that healing was the towns most powerful weapon? -.-;;;;;;;;;

Heal-phobia was a MAJOR contributor to this town loss.

We didn't know about the rage cap.

Are you kidding? You accepted EVERYTHING else about rage generation and THAT is what you conveniently forgot? You, Rolf, and ABR were SOOOOO focused on never letting scum accumulate rage that you forgot the rage cap...

Instead of slowing down and building cases, and maybe letting the scum have a few rage kills in return for some GOOD, SERIOUS lynches, you let the town run wild, and then attacked EVERYONE who tried to get control of it.

You were so afraid that if we slowed down that you would die that you let anyone who might be a target die first just so you could stay alive. That is what happened.

Town lost this game. Scum played pretty well, but town could have won and decided to lose spectacularly instead.

Copter and Fonz = confirmed town. Come ON. It was totally obvious.

I would have nailed Rofl to the ground as a town player, and for good reason. Town or scum, he single-handedly caused the most non-rage damage to town in this game.

I tried to show that to the town and got killed for my efforts. -.-;

[Kinetic]

I couldn't believe Kinetic was lynched! I wonder what the motives were.

Because most of my arguments (especially seeing the set up now) were right on the money?

[Kinetic]

BTW: It should be noted, although I hate to say it-

If I am not healed, the players most responsible for my death are not the ones who kill me, but the ones who refuse to heal me.

If you call me town, refuse to heal me, let me die, you do NOT get to claim an I told you so after I die. Anyone who does is SCUM!

God. I was on to Nuwen, on to DGB, but fucking rofl was killing me so I HAD to try and stop him. Too damn bad it was too late and the town couldn't heal me in time to save me.

-.-;;;;

[Kinetic]

God. I was on to Nuwen, on to DGB, but fucking rofl was killing me so I HAD to try and stop him. Too damn bad it was too late and the town couldn't heal me in time to save me.

You had the most aggressive faction against you. Anyone that defended you, would have been next to be marked for death. No one could defend you.

Didn't I try to heal you at some point? I think it didn't work, and it was a genuine error on my part. I did it to discredit your attackers.

I knew you did, and I also knew as soon as you healed me that you were scum.

My attackers were utter idiots, but your move was calm and calculated. I knew you were scum and I held my tongue because at that point in the game I wanted town to lose for letting the wild dogs run free and not taking them outside and killing them.

[Kinetic]

My attackers were utter idiots, but your move was calm and calculated. I knew you were scum and I held my tongue because at that point in the game I wanted town to lose for letting the wild dogs run free and not taking them outside and killing them.

The full idea was to use a heal on you, then kill you with rage points, so that it would unlikely that as scum, I would heal you, only to cost me an extra rage point. I really intended to heal you, and because of my mistake, my own ploy was foiled.

Either way, I know the way you play. That heal was WAY more calculated than anything you normally do as town. I'd have pinned you to the ground if I was still alive.

[Kinetic]

Either way, I know the way you play. That heal was WAY more calculated than anything you normally do as town. I'd have pinned you to the ground if I was still alive.

Next time I'm just going to hammer you, haha.

Ha!

Man, I had the worst feeling that ABR/rofl/fonz weren't scum, but I'll be damned if they didn't do their best to kill everyone off. I knew their scumdar's were totally out of whack and if they lead the town it'd be into the ground.

Flay: I loved the setup, and I think it was well made.

Town: You played HORRIBLY. And not the good horrible, like Dr. Horrible. I mean like you wanted to lose horrible.

[Kinetic]

Kinetic: as soon as we pressured him he became horridly anti-town and started attacking copter, me, trying to bring the whole town down just because he feels there was some injustice against him.

Your method of playing was the ONLY reason the scum could win after the Shinnen lynch. It was because of the way you rofl and Fonz were playing that they even had a chance.

If you three were lynched and I wasn't, or hell, if you three were lynched and even if I was the town won this game.

[Kinetic]

Erm, WE WERE all lynched. Except rofl. And don't forget Xyl.

Of course, IF YOU'D MENTIONED THERE WAS A RAGE CAP we'd probably have won.

Oh and here is the scum PM from the other game

In addition to your usual powers, the force of your betrayal and anger give you strength. Every Sunday at noon (server time), you will receive 1 Rage Point that you may use in a secret attack by PMing me with a player's name. This damage will be reflected in the next damage tally, but not associated with your name. You may store them up, to a maximum of 3. If you are killed/cast out, you lose any remaining points.

You begin the game with 8 HP. You win if all loyal angels are killed, and at least one fallen angel survives. You may talk to your fellow (living) fallen angels outside of the game thread at any time, since this game is Nightless. If you are killed/cast out, stop talking.

4th post of the game.

Fonz. It was mentioned multiple times that a rage cap was HIGHLY likely.

[Kinetic]

Yet you never brought up 'scum cannot kill someone from full +1 hp' EVER.

Because we didn't know that there were only 3 team scum left. What am I psychic now?

However, I did say that

Ha. Its kind of funny, I just did some math:

Assuming the lowest HP total is 7, all players can have at least 8 HP.

Assuming everything that is said about rage mechanics is true in this game, that means at most scum can only hold up to 3 rage points.

Assuming Scum have 4 or 5 players, at BEST they can only kill one person out right and wound a second.

Assuming scum is 6 or 7 players, at BEST they can only kill 2 players outright...

Interesting...

I KNEW I posted this. Very early in the game too Fonz. After the Shinnen lynch.

[Kinetic]

The difference between you and me is our intentions.

Town: You played HORRIBLY. And not the good horrible, like Dr. Horrible. I mean like you wanted to lose horrible.

You want town to lose. I want town to win.

You feel that a great injustice was inflicted on you and you will try to make the town lose.

I will go down fighting SCUM.

That's the difference, Kinetic. And that's what makes me a better team player than you.

Bad Team Player?

You helped kill me not because you thought I was scum, but because we had a disagreement over HOW to play the game. You wanted to kill me so that you could run the game the way you wanted.

That is the reason I'm a better player than you.

The ENTIRE time you were attacking me I wasn't sure if you were scum or not and I was asking for HEALS because I didn't want to hurt what I thought were townies.

If we had followed the way I wanted to play instead of being FORCED to play by your, fonz, and rofl's rules, we would have won.

[Kinetic]

@ Kinetic

I'm really glad that you died early and no one listened to you.

Yea, I know >>.

[Kinetic]

@ Kinetic

I'm really glad that you died early and no one listened to you.

I think Kinetic would have gunned for you, do you disagree?

A Kinetic regime would have destroyed me, roflcopter and Fonz mid-game...and the end result would have been the same.

A regime where you guys weren't random hurting according to your whim and playing extremely aggressive wouldn't have required you to die unless you were scum.

The fact was that your play meant that ANYONE who opposed you was killed. In a regime where dissent was allowed without the threat of immediate death means we can use more SKILL to find scum instead of Gut.

[Kinetic]

The difference between you and me is our intentions.

Town: You played HORRIBLY. And not the good horrible, like Dr. Horrible. I mean like you wanted to lose horrible.

You want town to lose. I want town to win.

You feel that a great injustice was inflicted on you and you will try to make the town lose.

I will go down fighting SCUM.

That's the difference, Kinetic. And that's what makes me a better team player than you.

Bad Team Player?

You helped kill me not because you thought I was scum, but because we had a disagreement over HOW to play the game. You wanted to kill me so that you could run the game the way you wanted.

That is the reason I'm a better player than you.

The ENTIRE time you were attacking me I wasn't sure if you were scum or not and I was asking for HEALS because I didn't want to hurt what I thought were townies.

If we had followed the way I wanted to play instead of being FORCED to play by your, fonz, and rofl's rules, we would have won.

QFT except the part where you say that you're a better player than me, because a better player than me would have to at least want his team to win.

ABR, I wanted my team to win. But I was disgusted by what my team was allowing to go on. Thus, while I still wanted to win, I didn't have any motivation to help them in that regard because they refused to stand up to the bullies of the thread.

[Kinetic]

Perhaps, Kinetic, perhaps...

But then again, you weren't on the Shinnen lynch and you didn't cripple the scum in the beginning. This led to you having less credibility, and to your downfall. If I were to play War in Heaven III, then yes, your plan is ideal. Just don't think that you played a perfect game, that's all.

I WAS THE TURNING POINT OF THAT LYNCH!

OMFG...

WOW...

Your ego is incredible, you're even trying to to re-write history now.

I lobbied for everyone to stop PATTING themselves on the back right after the lynch and go back to finding scum. Because I didn't let my ego get in the way I was able to dissect a LOT more of the set up.

[Kinetic]

After MY hurt on Shinnen he died before my cooldown was up. No one else can make that claim. You and Fonz did hurt before me, granted, but you also both had your cooldown lapse before I hurt. You hurt someone (Hoopla I think) after your hurt on Shinnen and before you returned to Shinnen's lynch.

[Kinetic]

Yet you never brought up 'scum cannot kill someone from full +1 hp' EVER.

Plus, chances are, the way the game went, the person that would have brought this up would have been lynched on the spot.

True, thats the other thing that bugged me about this game, so many people werent reading. You had like four hp's taken from you before you finished even replacing in and reading the thread. People kept writing, hurt Drench, hurt Drench...and he was long gone, lol..

I thought Town were very poor when it came to picking up valid scum signs.
But the Fact that 2 of those hurts came from Fonz & Seraphim tells alot really.

Drench had hardly said a word in the actual thread, let alone anything scummy. Yet town went after him AFTER he wanted to be replaced.

Baffling.

yeah same thing with Juls, she should have never been lynched.

Nah, Julz was a pretty good lynch. It wasn't ideal, but she wasn't contributing and should have asked for replacement WAY before she was the target she was.

[Kinetic]

Perhaps, Kinetic, perhaps...

But then again, you weren't on the Shinnen lynch and you didn't cripple the scum in the beginning. This led to you having less credibility, and to your downfall. If I were to play War in Heaven III, then yes, your plan is ideal. Just don't think that you played a perfect game, that's all.

I WAS THE TURNING POINT OF THAT LYNCH!

You were the 4th on that lynch, after Fonz, Copter, and me,

in that order

.

# Shinnen_no_Me - Hurt by: Albert B. Rampage, The Fonz, Kinetic (3) Healed by: Seraphim (1)

Fail again.

[Kinetic]

Perhaps, Kinetic, perhaps...

But then again, you weren't on the Shinnen lynch and you didn't cripple the scum in the beginning. This led to you having less credibility, and to your downfall. If I were to play War in Heaven III, then yes, your plan is ideal. Just don't think that you played a perfect game, that's all.

I WAS THE TURNING POINT OF THAT LYNCH!

You were the 4th on that lynch, after Fonz, Copter, and me,

in that order

.

# Shinnen_no_Me - Hurt by: Albert B. Rampage, The Fonz, Kinetic (3) Healed by: Seraphim (1)

Fail again.

Please re-read. Fonz made the case. Roflcopter wrote "I SUPPORT FONZ". And then I landed the first hurt.

There was lot of "I support this, yadayada" early game. The lynch didn't become viable, and it didn't happen until I hurt Shinnen.

You had given up on the Shinnen lynch by the time I jumped on.

[Kinetic]

...it seemed more like we were playing Survivor than trying to kill scum...

That sums it up quite nicely, actually. For too many townies, it became an individual game of "Survivor." Well put.

...and thx DGB.

This is a very true statement. I died because I tried to push against this flow.

I'm convinced my main reason for dying was not agreeing to be bullied by Rofl, ABR, and Fonz and not because any of them thought I was scum.

[Kinetic]

HURT: Kinetic & ABR

For continuing their arguments post-game.

Come on guys, settle down.

WWB.. I dont agree with your last statement.

I just can't believe that ABR still thinks he's right even though his play was one of the leading causes for the loss.

[Kinetic]

I'm convinced my main reason for dying was not agreeing to be bullied by Rofl, ABR, and Fonz and not because any of them thought I was scum.

A more accurate way of putting things: I thought you were scum at first. Then you convinced me you were town. And that's when you got ragekilled.

And if you had not followed the policy of "Hurt first, investigate second" I wouldn't have been at a place where rage would have killed me.

And if you thought I was townie afterword you should have helped heal me so that I couldn't have been rage killed.

[Kinetic]

Come on guys, settle down.

I know, I know. Fine.

Kinetic, I call ceasefire on the post-game arguments because I think we agree on 99% of the issues of why we lost.

Let's just all blame this loss on zwet.

lol.

I really don't have an issue with you ABR, and I see a lot of myself in you.

Fine, fine. Ceasefire.

[Kinetic]

You're only 3 years younger than me (if the birthday in your profile is right).

[Kinetic]

How can you lose something you never had?

[Kinetic]

I have to say, give me aggressive, leads-the-town ABR over bizarre fakeclaim ABR anyday. I hated that guy.

In a normal game, I'd agree, because there is only so much havoc he can cause when he's wrong.

[Kinetic]

I panicked the most when players were considering healing another. It was wasting our hurts, our rage points, it could have blacked us out in the QT (each death was only 48 hours of daytalk), and we could have gotten caught trying to kill a player, resulting in a confirmed townie... heals were disasters for us.

Except for the heals on me! Those were good.

We didn't know about the daytalk limit either of course. There was nothing like that in the last one. Or the fact that you got RP for town death.

We definately could have won this if we'd slowed it down. And no one was going to suggest it, and they would have been immediately lynched as scum if they had. (And rightly so I think - we were operating on the assumption that every week that went by meant a scum kill...)

....so should we "fakevote" for who should do it?

VOTE: Kenetic/ABR (to do it together)

I hope you're joking - that sounds like asking hilter and winston churchill to collaberate on a book about WWII...

(No comment about which is which... )

Ooo Oo, I call Churchhill.

[Kinetic]

DGB hurt Walt first. Not no consensus.

It's not impossible to miss a barn with a shotgun...

Depends on the spread of the Shotgun and where the idiot is aiming .

[Kinetic]

If anyone ever gets worked up over ABR, all they need to remember is he's the only player to win day one as a jester without having to deviate from his usual playstyle at all.

Love ya, Albert.

Empking, MSM3.