Open 121: Two of Four (b9) - Over! before 752

[Kmd4390]

Vote ZazieR

[Kmd4390]

Vote KMD

Seriously KMD, stop those OMGUS votes for once

Actually, I got mine up first.

[Kmd4390]

Is this the part where I post your WIFOM theory of our votes, or can we ignore that part and move on ?

I think that part is assumed by now.

[Kmd4390]

One little Soldier boy left all alone;
He went out and hanged himself and then there were none.

Really? Last player left in endgame and he self-hammers?

[Kmd4390]

And you might want to look again at the OP. Veerus has used a part of it.

I didn't even see that. That explains why it seemed random....

I hope you will sacrifice yourself for me if I get chopped, as we're friends. Right, KMD ?

In this game, if you are scum, you are dying. Outside of the game though, yeah, anyone trying to chop you with an axe would have to get through me.

YAA!!!

Vote: Empking

Kill all useless players now!

[Kmd4390]

If you're going to random vote me, at least give me the honor of spelling out my full name.

Now why would someone spell out that whole thing?

[Kmd4390]

Trolls are cute and cuddly.

You're not helping yourself by posting random bullshit.

It's all he ever does...

[Kmd4390]

I'm with Sens. Help the town in this game or die.

[Kmd4390]

WE'RE ON FREAKING PAGE TWO!!! Sheesh, way to be an idiot.

Do you plan on proving us wrong later?

[Kmd4390]

Proving you wrong about what? I'm helpful in games, more than you'd like to admit.

I haven't seen it yet.

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote Zwet[/b[

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote Zwet

[Kmd4390]

Not this one?

If you're going to be a jerk in this game even though nothing's happened yet and the game has just started I'll be very sad...

[Kmd4390]

The one I quoted is pretty terrible AtE.

[Kmd4390]

SensFan is overreacting, and KMD is hopping on easily with the general opinion.

Is this the only game where I've gone after you for being useless?

[Kmd4390]

SensFan is overreacting, and KMD is hopping on easily with the general opinion.

Is this the only game where I've gone after you for being useless?

Yes or No will do. Don't talk about any specific ongoing games because you are in so many that I am. If you want to reference a game, make sure it is completed.

[Kmd4390]

I'm not always serious... I can name three (four if one hadn't left this site)

players who can support this statement.

It just depends on the situation.

I can support it.

I think everyone but Seamus has voted.

We'll get nowhere the way the votes are, so I suppose I'll

Unvote, Vote: Zwet

.

After all, we have to lynch someone.

Reasons for voting?

[Kmd4390]

I knew you would figure it out that you are one of those 4

Well.....yeah.

[Kmd4390]

Unvote

although the claim wasn't needed yet.

I'll have an analysis on the early part of the game tonight or tomorrow.

[Kmd4390]

Okay so DO NOT LYNCH zwetschenwasser for whatever silly reasons you guys who put him at L-1 felt, that was pretty stupid in my opinion. Zwets has been 100% consistent in this game with his gameplay from my past experiences with him so while I agree he's not really helpful this is just how he is so chill out.

Other then that there's not really much to go off so far but I'm pissed that we put our claimed cop at a position where he's vulnerable to scum attacks.

I went after him at first based on past experiences, and told him I wouldn't unvote him until he changed. He still hasn't changed, so my vote remains.

Ok, I like the idea of going after a generally unhelpful player, but did you see his claim? NEVER lynch an uncountered claimed cop in an open game. (No, I don't want a real cop to claim if Zwet is scum. If a real cop flips or has to claim later, Zwet becomes an obvious lynch.) So Zwet stays alive today. Unvote now.

[Kmd4390]

KMD, I agree. This isn't Open, though, we don't know that we have a Cop.

Um.

Yes it is...?

Not where I'm from. Where I'm from, we have 48 hour days, 24 hour nights, and if you don't vote at all, or vote the wrong person, yer scummy.
So I always vote. Even if it's a random vote Day 1. After all, if you don't lynch anyone, you learn nothing.
If Zwet is truly town, and is what he claims, I think we have a new target.

First off being wrong is NOT a scumtell.

Second, we need a new target REGARDLESS of if we believe Zwet or not. If he's fakeclaiming, we'll know later.

[Kmd4390]

DarkCoffee, this isn't "where you're from". We find policy lynching usually scummy if it can be avoided.

And using that to your advantage to be intentionally scummy in every game is even worse than policy lynching.

I've seen zwet play, he promoted the idea that a Cop and Vig should target the same person.

I've seen him fakeclaim as town, but ongoing game...

Anyway, I'll put an analysis up on everyone later today. I have class at 10:30 and I'm catching up on other stuff first, so I'll get to it after class.

[Kmd4390]

KMD, I agree. This isn't Open, though, we don't know that we have a Cop.

Um.

Yes it is...? .

Its semi-open.

Ok, Sens was right. Looking back, we may or may not have a cop...

I partially agree with you saying being wrong is not a scumtell. Obviously people are going to make mistakes and not just scum made up a bandwagon on a lynched townie but if a townie is ever lynched I believe that all players who voted for that townie should go under intense scrutiny.

Very true. A mislynch is very likely to have scum on it.

Also, I was mid-post on that analysis and had to go. I saved what I had, but haven't finished. I'll try and get not lazy and post it today. It will be up tomorrow at the latest.

[Kmd4390]

If you don't have an issue with the wagon while the player is alive, you shouldn't have an issue with it if said player flips Town.

No, but scum are likely to be on most any mislynch. When you have a group of players which are more likely to be scum, you look into them a little more than you did before.

[Kmd4390]

If an innocent is lynched, I'm way more wary of the people that defended them tooth and nail than those that attacked tooth and nail.

About what percentage of your games with a Day 1 mislynch have you seen 0 scum on the wagon?

Okay well let me just clarify how I feel on this issue. If a player is put at L-1 and the players who are on that bandwagon ask for no one to hammer...but someone does I will put more responsibility not on the one who hammered, but the players who were stupid enough to put that player at L-1 to begin with. Because one vote at L-1 does not make a lynch it is all the votes before that as well.

Regardless of whether or not it was a good lynch, a mislynch is likely to have scum on it.

[Kmd4390]

Analysis:

BlondeSoWut

- A total of ONE post. With a vote "just cus" that is STILL on. Still no read on her but she needs to post more.

Darkcoffeejazz

- Made 2 posts without a vote. Looks overly cautious. Finally votes BSW for being a troll.

Wow, three people with 2 votes each. I'm assuming 5 are needed on one person before they are lynched?

Seems overly anxious for a lynch. But he mentioned being from a faster paced site, so I can see this regardless of alignment.

Votes Zwet saying "we have to lynch someone". Again, being used to a fast pace explains some of this, but he shows slight displeasure in this lynch and hasn't suggested anything else.

So DCJ overall hasn't really given a suspicion aside from his random vote and his "we have to lynch someone" vote on Zwet. Neutral read, leaning slightly scum.

Empking

- Quotes Zwet voting him and saying lynch "useless" players and votes Zwet. (In RVS)

Asks Sens for a quote on Zwet. When Sens does this, he simply responds, "Thank you". Can I ask what the purpose was in that? (Never mind. You answered this later.)

Asks DCJ if he wants Zwet to claim/be lynched. When DCJ doesn't answer, he votes him.

Didn't want Zwet to claim. Doesn't want a counterclaim if Zwet is lying. I agree with this.

I'm leaning town on Emp.

hewitt

- Comes out strong against the Zwet wagon. Note that this is AFTER Zwet has claimed, so that's an obvious position to take.

Attacks Sens for voting Zwet. This is the obvious protown action to take and I can see scum doing it.

Logic tells me town, gut says scum.

militant

- Votes BSW for being a troll (RVS).

Calls out Zwet.

Goes after DCJ a little and unvotes. No serious vote yet.

I have a slight town read on mil.

SensFan

- Votes Zwet in RVS.

Calls his vote non random in his second post.

Throws a hailstorm at Zwet.

Defends himself for going after Zwet.

He's pretty much matching the town meta I have on him. I don't have scum meta, but I'd guess Sens is town right now.

ZazieR

- joke votes me. Null because I expected it before roles were even sent.

Then some fluff (not that it's bad fluff ) Again, null.

Asks DCJ a question. Continues to question DCJ. Voted him and questioned some more.

She's reminding me of her town play so far.

Zwet

- Mostly started off with uselessness.

Defended against mostly Sens, but others as well, including myself.

Claimed cop.

Voted DCJ.

So far I think he's town until it's proven otherwise. He needs to contribute actual content though.

So...

Most likely scum so far:
1.DCJ
2.BSW
3.Hewit/Mil

Vote DCJ

[Kmd4390]

KMD: Is the number of scum more that you'd get if you picked random players?

Haven't thought about that. Probably should have. I'll research it and have an answer for you when I'm done.

To be 100% sure, the question is:

On a Day 1 mislynch, is the number of scum on the lynch greater than the number of scum in a randomly generated list of the same number of players?

Correct?

My hypothesis is that it is. I have to research it though. I'll use my past games where a Day 1 mislynch has occured combined with random.org and I'll post the conclusion I get from my results here.

[Kmd4390]

Straw man much?

How? I asked a question.

But Town going after ScummyTown is very possible (and even pro-Town, really). Town defending ScummyTown tooth and nail, barely plausible.

Well of course town are going to be on a mislynch. A lynch can't happen without townies voting for it. My point is that scum are likely to be on a Day 1 mislynch. (Which of course I am going to research.)

Do you want a full list of all my completed games, sorted by alignment? I have one that I did in a game that ended not too long ago, shouldn't take more than 2-3 minutes to add in the games since.

If all your games are on mafiascum, I can find them if I feel the need.

[Kmd4390]

DCJ is "game-throwing"?

[Kmd4390]

GAME RULES

Posting during twilight is allowed.

Sens, why the hammer?

[Kmd4390]

GAME RULES

Posting during twilight is allowed.

Sens, why the hammer

before a claim

?

fix'd

[Kmd4390]

TBH, Sens has a point.

If DCJ is scum, what would he have done? Claimed a power role. What would have happened? Either the wagon stalls and we lynch someone else or he gets countered and a power role is exposed and possibly lynched instead.

I guess I have no problem with the hammer.

[Kmd4390]

Militiant, you questioned DCJ a little, but never voted him. Why?

Hewitt, the first mention of DCJ I see from you is "So what the hell's with the L-1 on Darkcoffeejazz?" You also said " I do not think anybody who's keeping Darkcoffeejazz at L-1 right now is being pro-town in any way whatsoever". Did you think he was town?

BSW, you were the other player not to vote DCJ. But you did nothing AT ALL. What are your thoughts on the game?

I'm not ruling out DCJ being bussed, but I think the best start is these 3 players.

[Kmd4390]

Militiant, you questioned DCJ a little, but never voted him. Why?

I usually go on the Internet once a day. I went on one day and did not vote for DCJ because I had just unvoted from my random vote and the following day he had been lynched so had little time.

Why couldn't you vote when you unvoted your random vote?

[Kmd4390]

I wasn't sure if he was town or not, I don't think it's a good idea to

bus

players before getting any form or information out of them whatsoever especially this early in the game so I'm glad he flipped scum but I'm pissed that it had to happen so quickly. I don't like lynching players so quickly when we've got a huge deadline is a good idea so yeah I was pissed when he was at L-1 so early over what I thought was no so great evidence.

Who said anything about bussing?

Don't put words in my mouth. You have a funny tendency to do that. No I do not stop lynches for claims I like to keep them around long enough to try and draw connections between them and their scum buddies.

What connections do you expect to get from scum who is going down that you won't get from previous posts or from looking at who voted him and who didn't?

At the time when I unvoted BlondeSoWut, if you notice I had a few questions lined up for DCJ to answer. He failed to answer by the time of his death but then again he did not say anything after my last post. I was waiting for him to reply. On a wider scale I think voting him in the same post when I wanted him to answer questions is premature and unfair.

So you weren't ready to lynch him yet? You wanted questions answered first?

[Kmd4390]

At the time when I unvoted BlondeSoWut, if you notice I had a few questions lined up for DCJ to answer. He failed to answer by the time of his death but then again he did not say anything after my last post. I was waiting for him to reply. On a wider scale I think voting him in the same post when I wanted him to answer questions is premature and unfair.

So you weren't ready to lynch him yet? You wanted questions answered first?

Yes. Although he acted scummy which in turn caused me to question him I think it would be unfair to vote him before he had a chance to even defend himself.

Fair enough.

Vote hewitt

I think hewitt or BSW is scum.

[Kmd4390]

In regards to the most obviously scummy play, he claimed cop when he thought he was at L-1. It was stupid but I don't think it was scummy. He freaked out because he's town and didn't want to be lynched and that was completely unhelpful to the rest of the town but

if we hadn't put him in that position in the first place it wouldn't have happened.

Um. We didn't know he was town. At least most of us didn't.

Based on previous games I've played with him I found similarities between his playstyle this game as with others so I thought he was town and I was right.

You aren't getting it. That's not how "town zwet" plays, that's how "zwet" plays. How does he play any differently as scum? We can NOT give players like that a free pass just because they always do it. That's how they win as scum. Look at Nat's scum win percentage. I don't know exactly what it is, but he's always bragging about how high it is. It's because people say, "yeah, that's Nat LOL" and he gets a free pass for it.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, I didn't miss much with Marathon Day going on.

Well, I'm back. XD

Still ok with votes on Hewitt and BSW. Where the hell IS BSW by the way?

[Kmd4390]

The point on Nat is that he has an anti-town meta like Zwet does. It's perfectly reasonable to compare the two.

[Kmd4390]

The point on Nat is that he has an anti-town meta like Zwet does. It's perfectly reasonable to compare the two.

Did it end with the same result though?

Nat has been in games where he's been attacked like hell for his meta. As has Zwet. And Empking.

Nat replaced out of that game. Probably due to the responses. But Kmd can actually say more about this.
Anyway, in my opinion, this is a legal comparisation.

If you mean Drawn Together, it's ongoing.

[Kmd4390]

See my sig.

I'll catch up next week.

[Kmd4390]

Unvote

I'm back. I see a deadline coming up. I see Hewitt at L-1. I'm not ready to lynch as I've missed some things. Not sure if he's claimed already.

I'll catch up when I can. Tonight at the earliest.

[Kmd4390]

Unvote

I'm back. I see a deadline coming up. I see Hewitt at L-1. I'm not ready to lynch as I've missed some things. Not sure if he's claimed already.

I'll catch up when I can. Tonight at the earliest.

He claimed Townie.

Then I will probably revote when I catch up. Remind me why he was scummy.

[Kmd4390]

Ok. Good case. I'll still have to look closer.

[Kmd4390]

Sorry I took so long to catch up. Posts like these made it less appealing than my other games:

I asked if the sky was blue Empking, why didn't you answer?

I apologize to the rest of the town because I know my answers and questions and such are frustrating and pretty useless. But that's about the same level I put Empking's answers and questions on.

Exaggerate much?

THE FACT THAT ZWET WAS THE COP HAS NO BEARING ON THE SOUNDNESS OF THE BANDWAGON ON HIM.

HET FEIT DAT ZWET COP WAS HEEFT GEEN INVLOED OP DE GEFUNDEERDHEID VAN DE MUZIEKWAGEN OP HEM.

LE FAIT QUE ZWET ÉTAIT LA CANNETTE DE FIL A LE NON PORTANT SUR LA SOLIDITÉ DU MOUVEMENT SUR LUI.

DIE TATSACHE, DASS ZWET DIE SPINDEL WAR, HAT NR. MIT NACHDRUCK AUF DIE STICHHALTIGKEIT DES FAHRENDEN WAGENS AUF IHM.

ΤΟ ΓΕΓΟΝΟΣ ΟΤΙ ZWET ΉΤΑΝ Η ΣΠΌΛΑ ΔΕΝ ΈΧΕΙ ΚΑΜΊΑ ΣΧΈΣΗ ΣΤΗΝ ΥΓΕΊΑ ΤΗΣ ΜΌΔΑΣ ΣΕ ΤΟΝ.

IL FATTO CHE ZWET ERA LA SPOLA HA NO RIGUARDANTE LA SOLIDITÀ DEL CARRO SU LUI.

ZWETが警察官だったという事実は彼の楽隊車の安定度に関係ない。

ФАКТ ЧТО ZWET БЫЛО ПОЛИСМЕНОМ НЕ ИМЕЕТ НИКАКОЙ ПОДШИПНИК НА ЗДРАВОСТИ ГРУЗОВИКА С ОРКЕСТРОМ НА ЕМ.

EL HECHO DE QUE ZWET FUERA EL POLI TIENE NO CONCERNIENTE LA VALIDEZ DEL CARRO DE LA BANDA DE MÚSICA EN ÉL.

You are awesome.

@sens - where am I on your list????

I have three lists:

"People that should be pressured D1 unless they play better than usual"
*For the sake of political correctness, I won't name names

"People that should be looked at D3 if they haven't caught Scum"
*Poor Glork...

"The rest"

Out of curiosity, where am I? And you didn't answer. Where is Sekinj?

You

ALSO

seem to have conveniently forgot to mention that I hammered Scum.

Not a defense.

And it's not appeal to emotion it's the truth and I haven't been telling anything but it all game, if you want me to claim then fine I'm vanilla.

Claim noted.

we've been over this before, and it is getting very tiresome. the only reason I am not hammering is to give people a chance to say why they have their vote on hewitt.

You could have hammered already...

Vote Sekinj

The willingness to hammer, but still not doing it.
The impression I get that she hasn't read the game so far.
Using an attack against Hewitt he can't give a defence against as she's not giving the games she's gotten the meta from.
DCJ ignoring Militant's questions.
Militant's last two posts.
And meta reasons.

Good vote.

also, I'm not going to hammer when one of the voters is known to be on V/LA and everyone else is mum.

I left my vote because I was happy with it. And people said plenty. Their votes were there. They were fine with them. Read the posts where they voted. The hammer could have definitely been dropped by this point, especially after all the threats.

I'll wait at least on more day to make sure kmd is happy with his vote.

Seriously?

Still ok with votes on Hewitt and BSW. Where the hell IS BSW by the way?

^^^
2 days before I left. I was fine with my vote. If I wasn't, I'd have unvoted.

So far we have 2 confirmed voted for hewitt. that is NOT a majority. If someone else would liek to hammer, be my guest. as for me, I'd like to verify KMD's position.

The pressure to hammer is making me re-think hewitt's scumminess in the first place.

The vote verifies my position.

clarification: the pressure to hammer is making me consider if others are more scummy than hewitt

It's not pressure when you threaten to do so several times.

Trust me. If I could hammer, I would. And I'm not sure its fair to say that KMD's vote shouldn't 'count'. I mean, he knew very well he was placing it then leaving on a week-long V/LA.

And I'm not pressuring you to hammer, just the opposite. I find it scummy that you have built up hammering to be this huge thing, and are trying to completely justify it before doing so.

People should listen to Sens more. You think a player is scum, hammer them. Especially when they've already claimed vanilla.

i just want to be sure of a majority, simple as that.

Why were you unsure?

I also wanted to see if primate and zaz were going to take any sort of stand, but by this point it is clear that they are apparently happy in their passive side-line position.

Did Zazie not say she was against the Hewitt lynch?

i just want to be sure of a majority, simple as that.

You think it would be scummy to hammer without the input of everyone on the wagon?

Yes! 100% yes!

So you are afraid to hammer someone you think is scum because you are worried about looking scummy?

And I also think it's interesting that the person who has their vote on you and quite clearly explained their vote on you and you turn around and call them a passive side-liner

in regards to hewitt

.

there I fixed it to make it accurate.

She said:

I actually disagree with the case against hewitt. I don't see why scum would post upset after their partner is lynched. And I've been also a few times sure that someone was town, while everyone else saw that player as scum (see NG 684).

Still thinking this.

How is that a passive side-liner? She disagrees with the case. She says why. She gives an example to support it. Why are you holding her to such high standards?

i just want to be sure of a majority, simple as that.

You think it would be scummy to hammer without the input of everyone on the wagon?

Yes! 100% yes!

Then why the FUCK have you never so much as MENTIONED my quick hammer?

FoS: sekinj

for massive inconsistencies, showing that he's more concerned with looking out for his own skin than looking for what he considers scummy.

Very good point.

@sens - while I believe a quick hammer is absolutely scummy, it doesn't absolutely make you scum. Plus, of course outcome of getting scum kind of clears up that situation. it's unlikely you would quickhammer your own buddy. and hewitt is correct, I'm not 100% on him, he is just my top suspect. that is another reason I'm not going to be talked into a hammer by you or emp, no one has done anything yet to outway my doubts on hewitt enough to hammer this long before deadline. while your quickhammer yesterday turned out okay,

I'm not going to run the same risk.

If you hammer scum, the town wins. If you hammer town, we have tomorrow to try again. Why isn't it worth it?

@sens - i told you so.....

Actually, I only unvoted just in case so I could reread. Hewitt hasn't changed my mind. If anything has, it's you being scummy. My list would probably be Hewitt, Sekinj, Primate. Not much change from when I left even with two replacements.

and I'm still ready to hammer given that nothing has convinced me of hewitt's townieness. I can be ready to hammer and still not hammer until the appropriate time.

You say you are still ready to hammer. At this point, he is L-2. What is wrong with voting for L-1 and letting me hammer if I decided to?

----------------------------------------------

I'd be fine lynching either Hewitt or Sekinj.

Vote Hewitt

Sekinj, are you willing to hammer now?

[Kmd4390]

omg. yes. i will hammer. I can see that I will need to avoid all games with sense and zaz. there is no point to them.

vote: hewiit

and don't worry hewitt, I'm sure you will have your revenge tomorrow.

What? Avoid games with Zazie? What the hell has she done other than question a player she found scummy? Seriously. How the fuck is that bad play?

And he will have his revenge tomorrow? What's that supposed to mean? If he is scum, there is no tomorrow. If you just hammered him knowing he was town, you are easily tomorrows lynch.

Seriously though. Lay the fuck off Zazie. If you think she's scum (Doubtful. You look pretty bad right now), fine. But she is NOT a bad player AT ALL.

Same goes for Sens. He knows what he's doing. He's a smart player too.

[Kmd4390]

Hewitt:

and don't worry hewitt, I'm sure you will have your revenge tomorrow.

[Kmd4390]

Hewitt:

and don't worry hewitt, I'm sure you will have your revenge tomorrow.

okay wtf i don't care about revenge or any of that shit i just don't want town to lose.

What worries me is that she knows you are town in the same post where she hammers you. If you were scum, we wouldn't see "tomorrow" as we'd have won.

[Kmd4390]

Scum killing people you think might themselves be scum is an odd sense of relief and dissapointment.

It's always a disappointment when the scum kill Zazie.

I'll re-read and see if there is any reason to vote anyone other than sekinj at this point.

5 alive, 1 scum. We have 2 lynches to work with.

[Kmd4390]

Seriously sekinj? You are a better player than this. Cut the AtE. If you are town, unvote. Defend yourself instead of doing this shit. Enough of the WIFOM with the NK.

Against your actual point in that post: I had missed quite a bit. Hewitt was at L-1, so I unvoted just in case I missed something big. Sens said Hewitt had claimed vanilla, so I said I'd probably revote. I reread and revoted. There is no inconsistency there.

By the way, the self-vote is a null tell. I'm not going to speculate with the whole "you know it won't lead to a lynch, so it's just AtE" or "You are willing to see yourself lynched, so you must be town" because anyone could make a case either way.

[Kmd4390]

You brought it out in yourself.

Vote Sekinj

Claim if you are really willing to go through with this.

[Kmd4390]

As for you, KMD, with that amount of posts, I am stunned you don't know better.

Unvote

Sens wasn't online (he is now) and I knew that you and Emp wouldn't hammer. I wanted to see if she was willing to accept the lynch. Also, if she claimed a power role, I knew she was lying.

[Kmd4390]

Sens, if sekinj was scum then taking a lynch would be a loss. I put her at L-1 and she is still self-voting. And if she was a power role, she'd never accept a lynch to help the town. So claiming a power role would be the nail in her coffin as scum.

Sekinj is town.

[Kmd4390]

Isn't not claiming a power role in an open setup where you would immediately be counterclaimed very basic scum play?

The part that sells it is where she is willing to take a lynch. Only a vanilla townie would do that right now. That's why I asked for a claim. If she had claimed a power role, she was scum. She considers herself a distraction and is willing to take a lynch. It's as simple as that.

The current question is when we cut to the chase and lynch empking.

Do you have a case on Emp?

I don't really think KMD is, but I'd like to do some playstyle analysis simply because I'm suspicious that his post volume vs played time engenders a fritz style play of consistency across games, and that concerns me.

Wait, what does this mean?

[Kmd4390]

Isn't not claiming a power role in an open setup where you would immediately be counterclaimed very basic scum play?

The part that sells it is where she is willing to take a lynch. Only a vanilla townie would do that right now. That's why I asked for a claim. If she had claimed a power role, she was scum. She considers herself a distraction and is willing to take a lynch. It's as simple as that.

You yourself said that no one was online to hammer, and there wasn't really a risk of a hammer that quickly into the Day, anyways. I'm not sure if this is intentional or not, but you're giving WAY too much credit to a WIFOM argument here, and I don't like it.

Why would Sekinj, as scum, be that confident that no one would hammer. I looked like I was going to keep my vote and surely you'd have been willing to hammer based on the way Day 1 ended and your actions yesterday.

Is there something wrong with WIFOM?

[Kmd4390]

Isn't not claiming a power role in an open setup where you would immediately be counterclaimed very basic scum play?

The part that sells it is where she is willing to take a lynch. Only a vanilla townie would do that right now. That's why I asked for a claim. If she had claimed a power role, she was scum. She considers herself a distraction and is willing to take a lynch. It's as simple as that.

You yourself said that no one was online to hammer, and there wasn't really a risk of a hammer that quickly into the Day, anyways. I'm not sure if this is intentional or not, but you're giving WAY too much credit to a WIFOM argument here, and I don't like it.

Why would Sekinj, as scum, be that confident that no one would hammer. I looked like I was going to keep my vote and surely you'd have been willing to hammer based on the way Day 1 ended and your actions yesterday.

Is there something wrong with WIFOM?

Because it would be literally stupid to hammer a couple of hours into what will be (iirc) a 10-day long Day, at least.

And yes, when its this blatant. Now if Scum is ever backed in a corner, they can vote themselves, claim they want to be lynched 'for the cause', and you've set a precedent of unvoting them and calling them Town.

Sekinj came right out accepting a lynch. I made it seem like I was fine with it. If just one more person was ok with it, she was lynched. That's enough reason for her, as scum, to say "Ok, I guess this isn't protown. Sorry."

And what makes you think I'd be willing to accept someone as town when they already know my line of thinking. Sorry, but it doesn't work twice.

Sekinj, please stop this. If you keep this up, you may need to be lynched so you aren't around in LYLO...

[Kmd4390]

Ok, we need something to jump-start activity here. Let's try this.

I don't really think Sekinj is, I don't really think KMD is, but I'd like to do some playstyle analysis simply because I'm suspicious that his post volume vs played time engenders a fritz style play of consistency across games, and that concerns me. I think you're likely to be town also, but, you, in particular, have the experience to be able to pull of the pro-town driver attitude you've been sticking with as scum, and quite possibly the balls to do so, which I think is more relevant. Emptyger was originally one of my pro-town reads, but I'm increasingly going against that primarily because he's the most dubious read that way, and every time I tried to read him from that perspective again, I don't really see it.

I'm going to call these reads wishy washy and non-commital and ask you to rank the remaining players as far as liklieness of being scum. I'll also ask for reasons why your number one scum read is scum. Failure to do this will result in you getting my vote.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, we need something to jump-start activity here. Let's try this.

I don't really think Sekinj is, I don't really think KMD is, but I'd like to do some playstyle analysis simply because I'm suspicious that his post volume vs played time engenders a fritz style play of consistency across games, and that concerns me. I think you're likely to be town also, but, you, in particular, have the experience to be able to pull of the pro-town driver attitude you've been sticking with as scum, and quite possibly the balls to do so, which I think is more relevant. Emptyger was originally one of my pro-town reads, but I'm increasingly going against that primarily because he's the most dubious read that way, and every time I tried to read him from that perspective again, I don't really see it.

I'm going to call these reads wishy washy and non-commital and ask you to rank the remaining players as far as liklieness of being scum. I'll also ask for reasons why your number one scum read is scum. Failure to do this will result in you getting my vote.

My number one scum read is emp because he is the only one i don't think is town and by process of elimination he has to be scum. Figuring out town reads is much easier and more consistent that figuring out scum reads, for me at least. So your question and demand is restrictively and badly phrased, redo it please.

Can you explain the town reads on Sens, Sekinj, and myself that lead to Emp being scum in your opinion?

[Kmd4390]

Vote Primate

I still think he is the most likely scum in this game.

Discuss.

Please?

[Kmd4390]

hmmm... interesting...

so, does the town really think

they

have won now?

Hmm. I didn't, but this post has be wondering. Did we win sekinj?

[Kmd4390]

What roles did Emp and Primate have?

[Kmd4390]

Zazie just pointed out to me that massclaim was nearly guaranteed to confirm a townie.

There was:
scum
VT
75% chance of PR

Sens had to claim either PR or VT. If he claimed VT, and there was a PR, the PR would be confirmed (and maybe could have confirmed the VT). If he claimed a PR, the VT would be confirmed.