Newbie 744 -- Game Over!

[ZazieR]

Confirm

/confirm

Can I vote Zazie now or do I have to wait? XD

^^OMGUS
You knew I was planning to vote you.

[ZazieR]

No voting yet, Mizz. We're waiting on one player. If he doesn't confirm soon, the mod will look for a replacement and will probably start the game around then.

And I actually have a different reason why I want to vote you KMD, so you can leave the wine at home

[ZazieR]

I'll tell you the real reason when the time's right.
But just for fun, how many glasses are there? Three? If so, I'll take the one on the right:
o o x
The 'x' is the one I will take.

[ZazieR]

Vote KMD

In your face

FoS syndromeofadown

If KMD wasn't here you'd have gotten my vote, sexist!

[ZazieR]

You don't want to vote?

[ZazieR]

Wrong. I voted you based upon your lie of our previous game .

CntR, what's wrong with two votes on one player?

[ZazieR]

I vote her in any game we play together.

,while you hadn't voted me in any other game before.

Yes, I don't forget things like this quick.

[ZazieR]

Getting defencive, aren't we? I'll keep my vote.
You even gave me an extra reason for it . How come you didn't tell me that it was your girlfriend?

[ZazieR]

I have problems with both of them.
Alex said that he hadn't seen it yet that we had started voting, while in the post above his, I voted you. To me, that seems hard to miss. But I don't think it's important right now.

CntR is a different case. It's just odd that you FoS during the RVS, because you thought the one who you wanted to vote would have been put at L-2 if you had voted. Then I don't see why you wouldn't vote anyone else instead. But again, I wonder if this is a tell.

I'll keep both in mind, but at this moment, they aren't important.

[ZazieR]

EBWOP I'm sorry to hear that

[ZazieR]

I'm not buying Alex's explanation yet. Even if he fast-read the first page, he should still have seen the last post of page 1, where the mod announces that the days has started.
And even then, I'd like to know why you did fast-read, Alex.


And I'd like to know from CntR, why he only mentioned Dennis, while Mizz also hadn't posted after she had voted.

GUYS I THINK I FIGURED IT OUT! Under Zazier and KMD's name it points out that they are both mafia scum. Must be some sort of glitch in the system but good thing I was observant enough to notice this. GG Mafia, but looks like you've been figured out by detective syndrome

, it seems we've underestimated them KMD.
I think it's time to ask if Jeep can give us new titles. Or perhaps we should start a topic in which we ask for a new title, just like Ythill. Who knows what will happen if we don't!

[ZazieR]

I'd like to know what you (Mizz) think of CntR and Alex not voting in their first post of the day.

[ZazieR]

Well, in my opinion, you should have seen the mod's post. But I can now understand it. And at least, you read the game before posting, which isn't the impression I get from a certain player. So Mizz, did you or did you not read the game before you posted post 65? Also, how come you showed up after someone called you out on not posting anything after your vote?

[ZazieR]

I'm also wondering what's wrong with L-2. So could you tell us this SoaD?
I'm waiting on some content from Mizz, before deciding if she deserves a vote or not.

[ZazieR]

All I can say right now is that the way she's playing right now reminds me of someone else's playstyle when she was scum. Don't you agree on that KMD ?

I don't think she's scum for playing like this, but for her posts so far, she definitly deserves some attention. But I will base my conclusion on something else than her posts so far. And that's why I want to see her next post.


But KMD, what do you think of SoaD's unvote?

[ZazieR]

1/2 of the girl power is left in this game now

But anyway, am I the only one who doesn't like Mizz's last post before she announced that she'd like to be replaced? There were a few players with questions aimed at her, two players voted her for the posts before this one and someone unvoted her, because this vote was from the RVS. And the only thing she discussed was the unvote.

And no, what Mizz has done is still relevant. The role may have a different player, but the role is still the same.


Also, welcome Ash.

[ZazieR]

I think it was more the playstyle of some players. I know that some players use very aggressive attacks to get more info out of a player, and some players just play mafia for the fun. The second group clashes with the first and sometimes that results into players leaving.
It also sometimes have to do with school.

But we'll find out eventually if her last posts before she announced that she wanted to be replaced had to do with her allignment or not.

[ZazieR]

@KMD
Like I said, I wanted to hear something from Mizz after those posts she had made on (for me it was on) thursday. I wanted to see what she had to say about the responses made about those posts. However, the only thing she did address was the unvote. The posts she made on thursday weren't scummy to me, but as she only addressed the unvote in her response, that post looks suspicious. And that's why I talked more about it after Mizz left.

And no, I wouldn't have been ok with a Mizz lynch (lol). She deserves some attention due to her behaviour (posting without any content and not responding to questions/votes), but these are not screaming scumtells to me. Especially as I've seen other players do the same thing when they were town (you've named already one example). But as I don't know if this is also the case with Mizz, I prefer some attention on her (now Ash).

One player who did catch my attention is CntR. You might remember that he called Dennis out as he didn't post after his vote. Afterwards, he also saw that Mizz hadn't posted after her vote. But when she does post, he only states that he would vote her after waiting on a post (after those 3) as she pinged his scumdar. But he never stated why, and he didn't respond to her last post before she asked to be replaced.
There's one other player that caught my interest with his response, but will get into him later.

Mod

Could Boltrig be prodded?

[ZazieR]

Time for me to step in. I see many posts which include a part about Mizz leaving in this game and if it had to do anything with her allignment. However, Mizz had also joined two other games besides this one. So if you think that she might be scum as she left, then it's also possible that she was scum in another game.
Also, KMD is right. It doesn't show indicate allignment.

Anyway, I still find Mizz suspicious as she suddenly showed up after being called out, but not adding content. She also didn't address any votes or questions in her final post before she decided to leave, but she did address the unvote.

However, CntR, who votes Mizz for lurking, but didn't mention Bolt at all, while he was worse, deserves some attention as well.

And KMD, I assume that you'll give comments later about the stuff from my previous post you disagreed with.

[ZazieR]

Can you explain why what Ash is doing is scummy, Alex?

[ZazieR]

However, CntR, whose scumdar got pinged by Mizz for lurking, but didn't mention Bolt at all, while he was worse, deserves some attention as well.

Fixed
Is there any reason why nobody pointed my mistake out?

But CntR, how come you were saying that you'd vote Mizz (which was based upon lurking), but not Boltrig or Dennis? And I'd also like to know what according to you the difference is between your posts so far and those of Mizz.

Also,

Mod

, if Dennis hasn't been prodded yet, could do you please do so?

[ZazieR]

I so disagree with the above post.
First of all is the reason for putting Ash at L-1. It's just to get this game going, while there are lots of other ways to get this game going. Besides, CntR, what did you expect as response to this action?
Second, is that he didn't suspect Mizz at all, yet he's willing to put Ash at L-1. So far, I haven't seen any suspicions stated, except for the lurkers as lurkers make the game less fun, according to him. And even then, he misses them. So I'd like to hear who you suspect the most right now CntR.

Include that he didn't give arguments why he wanted to vote Mizz (see post 78), not responding to Mizz her posts and ignoring a question:

And I'd also like to know what according to you the difference is between your posts so far and those of Mizz.

So right now, I'll be happy with a

Unvote, Vote CntRational

Also

Mod

, what's the status of Boltrig? Could alexhans also be prodded as I saw that he was being replaced in a different game?

[ZazieR]

Finally, I'm no longer the only female around.
Thank you, yellowbunny for replacing.

Regarding post 161, I get a huge deja vu. Too bad the game's still ongoing...
But blueshadow deserves some attention due to this.


Post 167:
I'll let CntR respond first to the things you have said in this post, but so far, you're using fallacies.
I have numbered the quotes of mine you have used. The one on the top is 1, and the one at the bottom is 5.
So first of all, quote 1 and quote 4. Both are stating that he mentioned one lurker, but not another lurker. This would have only been suspicious if this happened with the same lurker over and over again (which isn't the case) as it mostly indicates a partner. Had it only stayed with the same lurker and if either this lurker or CntR would turn up scum, I'd have used it in a case against him. But as shown in the post where I vote him, I didn't use this point against him.
Quote 2 was in order to get to hear something from Mizz. At that point, those who didn't vote in their first post were the most discussed. And once again, I didn't use this as a reason to vote him.
As for quote 3, I used a part of it as basis for my vote. But on it's own, to me, it's not strong enough for a vote.
You may have seen that I'm waiting for his answer of one part of quote 5. As for the first part, he missed it according to him. Try to prove if this is a lie or not.

So in general, his last action was vote worthy, especially with the bits I have included.
Also, you aren't very convinced in this, or are you? No vote, while naming two players who are according to you the scumteam.


Will wait to hear CntR's response, but blue is begging for some votes as well (post 173).

[ZazieR]

@CntR
Ignoring a question is never good.

Anyway, what did you expect as reaction from Ash by putting him at L-1?
Also, how come you didn't respond to post 167, except for SoaD's assumed scumpair?


@Yellowbunny
Blue replaced someone who had only one post with content. So I don't have anything on him yet.
Blue is definitly scummy for doing something he sees as scummy, and even voted someone for. And after looking at his posts, he backtracked away from Raivann (happy birthday to you BTW, Raivann ) and he also didn't answer a question. It reminds me of Gimbo .
I'll definitly keep my eye on him, but CntR needs to respond to some things first.
Also, can you answer this question as well yellowbunny, as Blue is now at L-1.


Alex, I hope you'll get better soon.
Anyway, what do you think of CntR's vote against Ash and Blue's response to this?

[ZazieR]

Due to Raivann, I think a translation of my sig is also in order.
Hitorizutsu kesarete yuku = Being made to disappear one by one

Sounds fitting, doesn't it The song definitly fits the serie


You're wrong Yellowbunny. They are definitly scummy. In my opinion even scummier than blue, all because of Gimbo/Puta Puta. I've seen him both play as scum and as town. On this page he entered the game. Three pages later, he was lynched. Blue's play really reminds me of him.
Also, ignoring cases/questions is a major scumtell in my opinion. As far as I know, Blue hasn't done this, while CntR has (see post 167 CntR, you might also want to look at my previous post.)


Kmd, I said ignoring is bad. If someone is rolefishing, I'm sure that you call him out on it. Even if you call him out on it, you're still responding to the question.


CntR, what do you think of Ash when looking back at the posts he has made after his Raivann vote?

Mod

Could blueshadow be prodded? You would do us all a favour.

[ZazieR]

Like I said, it reminded me of Puta. Besides, Puta (probably better known as Gimbo) has done worse than selfvoting...
But my opinion will probably be more based upon his response. Especially as I'm interested to hear what he was talking about at his last post.

[ZazieR]

@Alex

Anyway, what do you think of CntR's vote against Ash and Blue's response to this?

Also, who is more suspicious to you, CntR or Blue? And why?

@Ash
What happened to your suspicions regarding Raivann? You haven't mentioned him in a while now.

@Blue and CntR
Please respond to the cases made against you when you post here.
Also CntR, after looking back, I want to know what the thought behind this was:

Hmm...Blue is at Lynch-1 now...

should we wait for him to post?

@SoaD
Please state your top suspicion with reasons.

[ZazieR]

Vote SoaD

For someone who says that he was convinced that Blue was 100% clean, you have done nothing to give me that impression. Just look at your posts from the moment you posted your theory. From that post, I got the impression that you indeed wanted CntR lynched. But you've never mentioned him afterwards, nor Blue.
Also, we've had the time that Blue had four votes and CntR three. You could have made that a tie, but you didn't. You could have tried to give your opinions why Blue was town to you, but you didn't. I don't trust your latest post at all.
As for my question:

@SoaD
Please state your top suspicion

with reasons

.

Also, I'm not gonna state my opinion why I think that Yellowbunny was the NK. In my opinion, it will only lead to WIFOM.


@Ash
You do know that CntR could have responded before your hammer. I also agree with this:

YOU VOTED JUST TO MOVE THE GAME ALONG!!! ARGH!! BETTER KILL A MUTE SUSPICIOUS MAN THAN SEARCH FOR A REPLACEMENT? according to that we should've lynched your predecessor before you arrived...

@Raivann
As for your last two posts, the first time I looked back at Blue's post. But I don't have always the time to do so. The second post you quoted was from what I remembered.

[ZazieR]

You may want to look at SoaD's last post again regarding your comment about his yellowbunny part.

Anyway, I did not bring Puta up to make anyone look scummier. Puta's play in NG 684 reminded me of Blue's play. But why are you bringing this up now?

As for voting SoaD, I believe that he's lying to put himself in a good light. That's in my opinion a good reason to vote.

[ZazieR]

As for voting SoaD,

I believe

that he's lying to put himself in a good light. That's in my opinion a good reason to vote.

For someone who says that he was convinced that Blue was 100% clean, you have done nothing to give me that impression. Just look at your posts from the moment you posted your theory. From that post, I got the impression that you indeed wanted CntR lynched. But you've never mentioned him afterwards, nor Blue.
Also, we've had the time that Blue had four votes and CntR three. You could have made that a tie, but you didn't. You could have tried to give your opinions why Blue was town to you, but you didn't. I don't trust your latest post at all.

His opinions of Blue and CntR.

[ZazieR]

Mod

Could you please prod CntR and SoaD?

Anyway, onto CntR. I don't agree with most of the points that Kmd has made in post 243. I'll give the reasons why after CntR has responded. However, I do agree with 5. Especially after looking at post 187
CntR, how come you didn't mention your reasons for voting Ash in this post?

Also CntR, it surprises me that you keep ignoring questions. What's up with that?
These are my questions you have ignored:
*Anyway, what did you expect as reaction from Ash by putting him at L-1?
*Also, how come you didn't respond to post 167, except for SoaD's assumed scumpair?
*CntR, what do you think of Ash when looking back at the posts he has made after his Raivann vote?
*Also CntR, after looking back, I want to know what the thought behind this was:

Hmm...Blue is at Lynch-1 now...

should we wait for him to post

?

I'd also like to hear your top suspicion as so far you've only defended yourself this day.

[ZazieR]

Both you and CntR are my top suspicions, now that I also get the impression that CntR lied about his opinion of a player.
So I want to hear from you both about this.

As for why I'm asking for top suspicions, this way players give us something to work with. Take for example CntR. This day, he has only defended himself. If his defence isn't considered good enough, we won't know his suspicions. This way, we have nothing useful regarding his posts.
Then there's you who has posted lots of fluff. And this is completely useless. So by asking a question like this, we can learn your stand on things.

So by asking such a question, players have to participate in the discussion which gives us the chance to get a read on them.

[ZazieR]

Happy belated Birthday Alex.
And a happy Birthday to Kmd.
Congrats to the both of you


Anyway, first of all CntR:

* I wasn't sure what to expect from Ash, but I expected something...
* Huh?
* Hmm...I'm still suspicious of him, but nothing that is a huge opinion changer...
* Well, don't we usually wait for a response after putting someone at L-1?

* What do you think of this post?
* SoaD was using the argument that you weren't cautious by voting Ash, while Kmd showed a game were you were cautious. I was wondering why you didn't respond to this, while you did respond to Soad's assumed scumpair.
* See the first *
* That's my point. I thought it was weird that you asked if we should wait.

The only thing left I'd like to know is what caused the hunch against Ash.


@SoaD

I wasn't 100% on blue at the time of the question, but at the time I replied I was since we already knew his alliance. It was a joke. Sorry that is wasn't funny. I didn't want to tell of what my opinion of him would have been at the time of the question, because it's impossible to know. (unless I happened to jot down my opinions I was thinking at the time). This is because of a little thing called hindsight bias.

Not buying it. First of all, the 'it was a joke'-excuse is outdated. Has been used once on me and failed back then as well. If you wonder why, the answer is: smileys. Just look back at the post in which I ask if you actually believe what you're saying about me and CntR as scumteam. In that post, you used a smiley as it was apparently a joke (I'll get back to this later in this post). But when posting your opinion about Blue, there was no smiley involved.
Also, if it was indeed posted because it was based upon knowing his allignment, then I'd expect that you'd add something along the lines of: 'Blue is clean. I'm 100% sure about this as he's dead.' Or you could have ignored that part of the question as it won't be of any use at the time you answered it.

The reason I didnt mention him after, nor Blue after, was because, if you noticed, I became a lot more passive in my playstyle. I wasn't really posting much of ANYTHING, and I didn't mention anyone really. I was posting "fluff" as you'd call it. That is because that was when my mom started getting really sick and it drained a lot of my time and energy. Sorry for not explaining this earlier.

I'm sorry to hear that, but once again I have to say that I'm not buying this as an excuse. I can understand that it will decrease the time for you to spend towards mafia, however Blue's last post the ninth of March. His biggest action was made on the eigth, before you made your crazy theory. So if you had time to do 'a joke', I'm wondering why you didn't have time to comment on Blue's action.
(PS, it could be that the dates are different due to different timezones)

And I'd really like to know, was that really what made it tip the scales for you to vote me, or was there more to it? You seem to have been on cntr's case all game, and even voted for him last game day. You have pointed out many scumtells on cntr, and it you said it yourself he's on the top of your suspect's list.

LAL (Lynch All Liars) is the main reason. Then there was also the fact that you voted CntR immediatly at the start, while you didn't vote him after you posted 'your case' against him on day 1. Then there's also this part of your first post day 2 that I don't like (gut):

Cntr is scummy, we've already been over this, no need to beat a dead horse.

And as we're now talking about the CntR votes of last day, why weren't you one of them?

Is it because I might have put a little tiny bit of suspicion on you in post 167, and you didn't like it? Was it because I voted mizz.mafia and am a sexist?

It's good to know that you finally admit that you're a sexist, while saying at the start that you weren't one . But my answer to both questions is: 'No'.
Reasons can be find in this post.
Also, if you think it's OMGUS, just say so

Based on your earlier plays, it seems like you have given other people more of a leeway to defend themselves before you are suspicious enough to give them the big capital L. I am just curious, don't take this the wrong way. I'm not offended and angry that you voted me, It just seems scummy to me that you would vote me based on the reasoning given and how you have handled other situations of scummy behavior in this game.

I prefer to have my vote as soon as possible on the player who deserves it. And this depends from time to time when I see it as the right time.
The moment when someone understands all of my actions, is the time Natirasha will act pro-town in each of his games (aka very unlikely).


NOTE: I want to hear a response first from SoaD before someone may discuss this post. And I'd prefer it if Ash could respond afterwards, but this isn't obligatory.

[ZazieR]

Catching up.

I'm still happy with my SoaD vote. There were a lot of things he could have responded to, but he dismisses them all by saying that there isn't much he can do to defend himself. Or he could have explained some of his actions.

Someone else who has caught my attention is Ash.
First of all, I'll explain why I asked CntR the question about that post of yours, after he has answered it.
As for my reason why, he didn't bother twice to wait for a post. But suddenly he warns us that we shouldn't jump too soon on SoaD.
Another reason is post 289. Apparently, the main purpose of his (hammer)vote against Blue was to get this game moving again. Look what CntR did. He also voted Ash to get this game moving again. The difference only was that Ash hammered someone, while CntR put someone at L-1. So I'd like to know from Ash what made CntR's action scummy, while his is not to him.
Also, please note that Ash never mentioned one of Blue's actions. So his vote also came out of the blue, the thing he has accused CntR of.
Question:

The last to post confirm what I've been saying about CNT, not giving any valuable input, and just looking for a lynch it seems like.

How come you've accused CntR of this, but not SoaD?

FoS Ash

I'm fine with a lynch of either Ash or SoaD


(off-topic and non-serious stuff)
Thanks for the birthday wishes For those who haven't given me a gift, join the bandwagon on SoaD That would be a nice gift.

And Kmd, since when do you know when I might post?
I'll forgive you if you'll make/join an Ash bandwagon

[ZazieR]

Sorry Kmd, but I'm not convinced anymore that CntR is scum.

1) The FoS in the RVS when you weren't voting anyone. I saw this as cautious play matching your meta, but that's wrong as you have been more aggressive lately.

2) The fear of putting SoaD at L-2 which is notable because of your L-1 vote on Ash later.

3) Calling out Dennis for lurking when a few others were worse offenders, specifically Mizz.

4) Also quick to jump on the "lurker" who had posted 30 hours before you called him out.

5) Called Mizz a confused townie and then voted Ash 3 posts later with little reasoning.

6) Placed Ash at L-1 with little reasoning. Looks like you want to lynch pretty quickly there.

1. You're basing his meta upon one game. And this is wrong. My first game was NG 646. I tunnelvisioned hard on one player I thought was scum.
My second game was NG 663. Here I looked at everybody at all times, except when I was convinced that a player couldn't be scum.
I was more aggressive in the first game than in the second. But I was town in both games. You can't speak of a meta with one game as most players try to find out what the best approach is.

2. That vote of SoaD was during the RVS. His vote against Ash was serious. You're making a very bad comparison here as both votes have a different meaning in the game. Most players don't want to lynch somebody with a random vote. That should explain why he would be afraid of putting SoaD at L-2. There have been games where a lynch has been reached within one or two pages. And that doesn't help town. But when you think somebody is scum, you do want them lynched. Which was apparently the case with Ash.
The only thing I do agree with you is that he should have stated the reasons. Now, it could just be the case of trying to escape the suspicions. But I still believe he's innocent. It only bothers me that he left before responding.

3. In my opinion, this would have been scummy if he only mentioned the same lurker each time, and forgot about all the others. But this wasn't the case. So I'd like to know why this is scummy to you.

4. Again, what's scummy about this?

5. He indeed said:

Thought that she was mostly a lurker-ish (who could be putting up a newbie pose) player before she left, but at the moment, I

feel

that she

might

just be a confused townie.

He never stated that he was sure about this. But like I already said, he should have given his reasons.

6. This is indeed true. But Ash hammered somebody without ever mentioning Blue, except for the time when he said that he saw CntR as scummier. So what's your opinion of that? And tell me why that's less scummy than what CntR has done.
So in my opinion, the only scummy thing left is him not saying why Ash was scummy to him at that time and not doing so after he was asked.
I think the Ash and SoaD cases are stronger

[ZazieR]

Welcome Knox I know you can't respond regarding things SoaD have done, but I do hope you try.

Raivann, you've been pretty silent lately. What do you think of the things I have said against Ash, SoaD and what about my last post?

[ZazieR]

First of all, welcome C_o . Hope to hear something from you soon.

First of all, I never asked you to answer questions...

I know you can't respond regarding things SoaD have done, but I do hope you try.

But anyway, I've got nothing to add to your first dot. I can see that you understand what i mean, and I see no reason why SoaD-town would respond like that about Blue after it isn't useful anymore.

About dot 2, I never said that I didn't believe it. It's possible that it was the case. However, I don't buy it as excuse. Like I said, he made 'his case' against me and CntR after Blue's most known action. Why did he had the time to post 'a case', but not to respond to Blue's action. This also shows that he had the time.
Also, he posted 'his case' at March 8 (my time). He didn't mention anything about his mother until the 29th, saying that his life had been stressfull that week. So how come he didn't mention his mother before that? Here is that post. (Just giving a link in case someone wanted to make a cheer about effort again...)

Third dot, nothing to add again.

The last dot, however, is interesting. His reasons for not defending himself are stated in this post. He didn't even try to defend himself.


Anyway, who are your top suspicion and why?
Do you also have anything to say about things that happened, or not?

[ZazieR]

1) The FoS in the RVS when you weren't voting anyone. I saw this as cautious play matching your meta, but that's wrong as you have been more aggressive lately.

My point was that you can't speak about meta from only one game. My point has proven that. You of all players should know that those games don't support my current play if you'd look at them.
Besides, I have seen in other games that newbs (and also SE's) don't want to have a lynch based upon random votes. And I agree with this due to:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 78&start=0
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... postdays=0
In the first game, there were was a lynch reached day 1 first page. There was only one scum on it, and he had the first vote. Game two had a L-1 reached second page. Both scum were already on it as the 2nd and 3rd votes.
Now it's your turn to show me games where one mafia member added his vote to either put a player at L-1 or to hammer a player.
And this gives players a good reason to be careful with bandwagons based upon random votes. So I see nothing wrong with not voting to put someone at L-2 (If I'm correct) using a random vote.
I do agree that it's weird to FoS during the RVS with no random vote, we've already discussed that at the start of this game, but my point is that you can't speak of meta and that it's wrong to use it as an attack in this case.

2. Disagreed on the first part. See the examples above why.
Besides, it's about wanting to see somebody lynched. He didn't want to see SoaD lynched as there wasn't anything against him so far, while later he had suspicions against Ash. It makes sense why he would be careful about his SoaD vote, and not the Ash vote.
Also, Wall-E doesn't agree

3. You explain first. Reflecting a question with a question is duly noted.

4) Also quick to jump on the "lurker" who had posted 30 hours before you called him out.

4. He used a weak argument.

I'm not following you

5. 'Feel' indicates that it's based upon gut. His reason for voting Ash was also based upon gut. Gut changes. Evidence doesn't. If his first stance about Mizz was based upon evidence, then I'd have agreed with you. But gut can change pretty quick, and if anyone knows that, it's me.

6. No, it isn't. I've looked during the time between my practice exam and discussing another one at his previous posts. There were some interesting things.
And I don't agree with your 6 points against CntR. SoaD/Knox is worse, and Ash is looking scummy as well.

Also, I hope you realize if CnT flips scum, you get scum points for defending him like this.

FoS Kmd

I'll get back to this later when that game has finished.


(Will now look at Raivann and knox's posts. I forgot that I needed to respond to those as well, while writing this one)

[ZazieR]

For dot two I think he did say that he should have mentioned the stuff about his mum earlier but didn’t but we just won’t know why he didn’t post more.

It has nothing to do with his mom in the hospital! The point was that he never mentioned Blue. As reason, he said that his mother was being sick.
However, Blue's most known action took place before he posted 'his case'. How come he had time to post something he didn't believe in, instead of posting about Blue's actions?

In the last dot I was referring to that post, in that those reasons might be why he didn’t post more as he was busy and thinking of leaving the game and such.

He said that he couldn't defend himself. It had nothing to do with having time or not. He just didn't try.

[ZazieR]

I'll respond to the rest of your posts later on Kevin, but now that the game's over, I can talk about my FoS against you.
Open 121
I 'defended' Hewitt in this game and attacked somebody else.
In newbie 696, I also didn't support the Raider wagon, and I gave my reasons for that at the start of the game. At the same time, I was attacking Stef and Raz.
Both games show what's happening here as well. You attack a player, I disagree and give reasons why, and add my own suspicions. But in both games, you never stated that it would give me scumpoints. So why's that suddenly the case in this game?

[ZazieR]

I also have a question to Knox. In your list of suspicions, you accuse Raivann of following. Why did you only mention Raivann, and not Ash?
Would you say that SoaD was following? Please state your reasons with your answer to this question.

[ZazieR]

@Ash
After looking back, you noted down SoaD's attempt at humor after he told the joke about the 'mafia scum' title underneath my and Kevin's names.
Later, SoaD posted his 'joke case' against CntR and me. How come you didn't give any comments about that?

I'll give you a chance to rebuttal with a valid reason before I put my vote on you.

Why didn't you wait before he could?

I think this is the hammer vote, and you are most likely going to condemn me for it, but

I think it's in the best interest of the town to get rid of someone who acts scummy, and places votes without any real reason

sooo....

Then come you never mentioned one action of Blue?

So I'm not really sure where to go from here. I believe that Cntr's still very closed to being lynched.

I don't want to drop a bad hammer again

, so I'd like to see some more discussion before I place my vote on him.

I'd like to here more from Cntr, as I think his case right now is much more

importent

then syndromes case.

Elaborate on the bolded please.


I'll get to your question about your 'hammer' post and one more post later on when you've given the answers and explanations.

[ZazieR]

[mrow]

Requested

[col]

Name/Type/Flavor

[col]

Moderator

[col]

Length

[col]

Notes

Apr 16[col]Mini #761[col]X[col]Day 2, 20 pages[col]

One replacement needed for AshKetchummm

Is this game cursed ?

[ZazieR]

Zaz your attempt to defend CntR in 302 falls short.
While I agree that one meta isn't enough the other points lack strenght.

Then add your reasons why that is.
I also thought that you'd put your reasons why you'd like to lynch CntR in a post? When's that one coming?
Wait a minute! Do that in your next post. The only point you mentioned about his actions so far was his question if we should have waited for Blue's replacement.

Because Ash made only that mistake while CnrT made a whole lot more... Ash has a couple of things against him:
a) his inactivity
b) his hammer without explanations to get the game moving (almost the same scuminess as CnrT who left it at L-1 in the same manner)
c) his inactivity

^^Says the player who had his only serious vote against Ash on day 1, and FoSed at the start of day 2. And his hammer was way scummier than CntR's action. Besides, if that action was scummy to you, how come you didn't say that during day 1?

This is either lame or a joke I guess.

I was completely serious

Diving into real life is a hard endeavour... We can't know for sure. An excuse isn't needed until they call you out for something...

Does nobody get my point? He gave as excuse that he didn't mention Blue's actions due to his mother being sick. So why did he have time to write a 'crazy theory', which was probably a joke?

Regarding What Conspic said I agree that Ash looks scummy. I just find his newbieness a possibility and I'm not willing to lynch him. And less when he is being replaced. FoS: Conspic for trying to take heat from him and push a player that cannot respond.

322: mmm Ash is not here and you suddenly start making a case against him... I find this highly suspicious. You know he is being replaced right? Why lay the case now and not when he is here? You have the wish that he is quicklynched now perhaps?

This is a big stretch. Yaw mentioned that Ash was prodded, but when C_o and I wrote our posts against Ash, it wasn't known yet that he was getting replaced in another game. Besides, I already mentioned that I think Ash is scummy in other posts.

And what you called a stretch in your post, isn't one at all. Why would he warn me that it would give me scum points if C_o turns up scum when he hasn't done that before?

[ZazieR]

@Knox

Why Raivann and not Ash?

Well at least in the last few pages I believe that Ash has asked more questions than Raivann who now says he has had nothing to say and was waiting for replacements which I think is a poor excuse considering the amount of discussion and posts sparking discussion that were generated during this time. During this time his post were generally actively lurking.

Ok, after having looked back, I can see your point here. Raivann has posted some one-liners while other players were arguing and were making cases.
However, Alex was waiting till players would comment on his catch-up post, while there wasn't much to respond to. He also said that he'd write a post in which he'd give his points against CntR.
Ash at that time was giving his opinions, but didn't support anything with arguments. His top suspicion was still CntR after he responded to Kevin's points, and this was also stated, but I can't find any arguments why. He only said that a lot of CntR's reasonings don't make sense. The same thing can be said when he mentions my case against SoaD. Also, for someone who wants CntR lynched ever since his action of putting Ash at L-1, he hasn't pushed it much.

@Kevin: Due to Knox last post, I saw the Raivann case from Ash. It's based upon Raivann not having a stance. What's your reason for not giving a comment about this?

@Knox

Then was his crazy theory, though it was crazy it still had many original points and though wasn’t a very strong case it was still worth considering and showed that he was actively scum hunting and thinking for himself.

If you have paid attention, SoaD didn't vote for either me or CntR. So I asked him if he was actually convinced in his case:

Nah, it's just something that came to mind when re-reading the thread that I thought might be interesting to bring up. Food for thought really, hence why it's a crazy theory

When looking at SoaD's quote, do you think his case was real, and why do you think this?

[ZazieR]

@Alex

On a side note. Soad's crazy theory paired up Zaz and CnrT. After that Zaz started attacking SoaD...

Incorrect. It made me wonder if he actually believed 'his case'. I started attacking him after he posted his opinion of Blue.

Also, I hope you realize if CnT flips scum, you get scum points for defending him like this.

Here, Kevin says that it will give me scumpoints. In the games I've pointed out, I also came up for the player Kevin attacked. But in both games, Kevin didn't mention at all that it would give me scumpoints. So why would he say that in this game, but not in the other games?
And it doesn't have anything to do with me getting scumpoints from Kevin if C_o turns up scum. If I disagree with a case, I'll state my reasons why. Have always done so, and this will not change. Kevin should know this by now. So to me, it's strange that Kevin 'warns' me.

regarding Ash I thought him as newb townie.

Since when do you think this?

However, Alex was waiting till players would comment on his catch-up post, while there wasn't much to respond to. He also said that he'd write a post in which he'd give his points against CntR.

Subtle attacks annoy me. It's true that there is only one request there (to Raivann, quote the case against CnrT, wich he didn't do). Raiv voted Cnrt in this post but didn't lay a case himself. I find that strange.

If you think that I'm attacking you with this, you're wrong. It was used for a question to knox.

If you're wondering why the long post... I finally have working Internet at home!

Great to hear that How long did you have to do without internet at your home?

[ZazieR]

Also Alex, you said that you had notes regarding my case against SoaD. Have you posted these already or not?

[ZazieR]

@Zazie

If you have paid attention, SoaD didn't vote for either me or CntR. So I asked him if he was actually convinced in his case:

Nah, it's just something that came to mind when re-reading the thread that I thought might be interesting to bring up. Food for thought really, hence why it's a crazy theory

When looking at SoaD's quote, do you think his case was real, and why do you think this?

Yes I have paid attention and I do realise he didn’t vote for either of you at the time. Though his quote has a smiley, it still says its food for thought and that he agrees it is not the most solid theory. I think he might have brought it up in a joking way so as not to get shut down completely after posting it. To me it seems as though he believes in what he is saying otherwise why go to the effort of quoting and writing a long post including questions at the bottom? Looking at it, I believe it was a small suspicion and he just wanted to see what others thought about it and he just brought it up in a joking way as a possible defense.

Then please explain why he did vote CntR at the start of day 2. (I know you can't)
He stated suspicion of CntR during day 1. He even made 'a case' against CntR. But he never voted CntR, for reasons unknown. This is especially notable when a player he hasn't even mentioned gets closer to a lynch, and he doesn't even try to get his top suspicion lynched. And yeah, there was his mother. But why wouldn't he bother to put his top suspicion at L-1 yesterday, while doing it today?

[ZazieR]

So Charter, anything you want to add about your opinions?

[ZazieR]

Because in this game you went out of your way to respond point-by-point like you would if it was you I was attacking. I find it suspicious that you can be sure enough of a player's towniness to respond in the way you did. Defending a player is one thing. Responding to every point in the case against a player to deflect the case is another.

Have done so before (NG 684). Then, in my opinion, there were both against Raider and hewitt one point mentioned. No wonder that I didn't reply point by point.
There's also the thing that the player replaced out. I believe C_o is town, so I'm not gonna let him get lynched that easily.

Ash's case

[ZazieR]

@Alex

@Zaz: I think about ash as a newb townie pretty much since he replaced and I saw his join date and his playstyle. All that about not reading his role when replacing and saying Mizz was scummy was silly for an experienced player to do IMHO. Anyway, as I didn't want to be fooled by a scum newb I decided to put a quick vote on Ash and see if someone tried to defend him or if he reacted oddly but then I had my accident and everything changed.

What about your FoS against Ash at the start of day 2 (not sure if you already said about that. Sorry if you did)

And it was not my intention to give you the impression that I think you're stalling the game, as this is not true.

[ZazieR]

Ok, Charter. Now I'm really curious why your vote as you only mentioned one of my posts, which wasn't even discussed by you in the post with your vote.
And how come you say C_o is town, when you hadn't even seen CntR's actions yet at that point?

And if you're so certain that one of blue and Raivann is scum, then why no vote against Raivann?

[ZazieR]

C_o is the replacement of CntR

[ZazieR]

Experience doesn't matter to me. Due to this quote, Ash's hammer looks bad to me even if he was a newb:

I think this is the hammer vote, and you are most likely going to condemn me for it, but I think it's in the best interest of the town to get rid of someone who acts scummy, and places votes without any real reason sooo....

But if experience would have mattered to me, it would have been bad for CntR. He had played one game already so he should have known better.

[ZazieR]

@Charter

In the random voting stage, I start with something little to get discussion started. In this case it was Alex and also CntR for not voting.

Mizz got called out and immediatly responded. That means she was following along, just not posting. And that is scummy.

And can you please explain why you got the impression that I was planning to join the Blue wagon if the CntR wagon would be halted (That's what I read)?
Because I had no intentions to do so.

Regarding this:

239- You 'believing' someone to be lying isn't much of a reason to vote them.

Have you read my posts afterwards which give more reasons and explanations, or not?


I also don't agree with your assumed scumteam.

[ZazieR]

@Knox
Quick post as I have to go soon. The first quote was at the end of day 1. My next post was during day 2. I remembered Raivann saying that there was an inconsistency, but I didn't look back at that post of his. So when I responded, I didn't know he had asked me that question about the posts in isolation.
Also, Kevin was if I'm correct on vacation at that point.

[ZazieR]

Will respond to post 367 after this post.

Charter, if you are scum, your biggest threats are ICs, not newbs. You suspect both Zazie and myself. Coincidence?

Are you suggesting something here?

Blueshadow was slightly scummier than CnT. And I wasn't looking for a lynch on CnT just yet. My real suspicions on CnT came much later.

You sure?
(^^ two links)
Please explain Kevin.


C_o, anything to say about what has happened so far in this game?

[ZazieR]

This looks to me like either trying to get others to vote blue (horridly scummy) or setting yourself up to go on to his wagon (kind of scummy).

Or it was me saying that what Blue did was scummy, but not scummy enough to change my vote. In my opinion, CntR deserves my vote. However, I was of the opinion that for Blue's action, he should have been pressured. That's why I was saying that he deserved some votes.
You can see in my later posts from day 1, that I had rather CntR lynched. Which I tried at the end of day 1.

As for the posts following 239, I didn't really get what you were saying.

I gave reasons why I believe that SoaD was lying about his opinion of Blue in his post. I also gave reasons why him saying that the opinion he posted about Blue was a joke, is probably lied about as well. I gave reasons why his excuse of not giving his opinion about Blue day 1 is probably lied about. His vote this day against CntR, but no vote day 1 is mentioned. And as last was the fact that he didn't try to defend himself.
All this can be found in post 273, except the last point about him not defending himself which was mentioned in post 298.

If you don't understand one of my arguments, tell me which one. An answer as 'I don't understand what you're saying' is rather vague...

[ZazieR]

I'll have to do something else first before looking at the other posts I have missed, but I want to post this first as I really want to hear an explanation for this:
Alex first opinion of Kmd

I have to admit to myself that I haven't looked much at some characters that I assumed town and forgot about them (KMD and Raivann)

^^second opinion
Alex new opinion of Kmd

Please explain what happened to your previous opinions of Kmd that he suddenly deserves your vote based on gut?

[ZazieR]

Kevin

Regarding post 378. The point of the two links was to show that you already had made a case against CntR day 1. You said that your suspicions regarding CntR came much later.
So I'd like to know why Blue was scummier than CntR, while you had according to you 6 valid points against CntR?

Why the sudden change from wanting him lynched to defending him as hard as you have?

SoaD's scummyness.

[ZazieR]

Charter

I'm not following you at all regarding the Kmd case. So I hope you can make a point to point case soon.

[ZazieR]

Clown

Charter has done quite a lot to convince me of the townie-ness of his role. First of all:

Yes. You can check any newbie game I've been scum in, I don't go after the other IC because they are an IC. In fact, I normally NK them on night two. I find it much easier to mislynch newbies. This is also not a valid way of defending yourself. It's entirely possible both you and ZazieR are scum and I'm rightly suspicious of you.

I can vouch for this, as I was scumbuddies with charter in a newbie game a little bit ago.

I can't really see anyone as scum in that position not going after me, particularly trying to defend me

. Knowing I'm town, I'm fairly certain you're town at this point, though I do still have some worries about you due to the actions of the person who preceded you.

You've only mentioned one point why Charter is probably town, while saying that there are more reasons.
And I don't understand the bolded. Can you please rephrase it?

Anyway, that's all from me tonight. For now, FOS: Kmd4390, I'll take a look at some more stuff tomorrow, but if nothing pops out at me I'll bump that up to a vote.

Why the FoS?

[ZazieR]

EBWOP

charter wrote:

Ok, just to make my point clear. I can not fathom Conspicuous Other being scum. If he was, there would be him and his buddy trying to get someone else lynched. This is not the case. This wagon has mislynch written all over it. ALL OVER IT!

conspicous_other wrote:

Whatnow? Tunnel Vision much?

Anyway, that's all from me tonight. For now, FOS: Kmd4390, I'll take a look at some more stuff tomorrow, but if nothing pops out at me I'll bump that up to a vote.

You mean like this?

I thought this might come up. If I'm scumbuddies with charter, that means I was scumbuddies with ash, and if I was scumbuddies with ash, post 319 doesn't make much sense, now does it?

Yes, it would make sense for two scumpartners to do so. It's called bussing.

[ZazieR]

Alex

You're so funny. Asking everyone to make a short post with their cases for voting a player, and all you can come up with is gut. I'll post a short version of my case soon.
Then there's also that you first had a town read on Kevin, whom you now vote.

I'd also like to hear what happened to this:

I'm leaning to a CntR lynch right now. Pending reasons in an organized post. I want him to be able to answer all questions(including mine) before I really decide on his lynch. (assuming nobody unvotes, then I would only vote him and not hammer him)

[ZazieR]

My case against SoaD:
-his opinion he posted of Blue which was according to him a joke.
-nothing regarding Blue day 1. His excuse was that his mother was in the hospital, which might be true, but he had time to post his 'crazy theory'.
-No vote day 1, but a vote right at the start of day 2. He uses his 'crazy theory' as reason for this vote.
-No defence whatsoever regarding the above actions.

[ZazieR]

Post 401 (Alex)

yeah right! bussing each other to L-1.... Pretty good...

It happens. Even in newbie games.

331 is my case on CnrT. Zaz has asked for it many times, even after it. There it is. Haven't you seen it?

What I actually meant was to ask why you voted Kevin with as reason gut, instead of CntR against whom you've made a case. So please answer.


Have already answered why I didn't answer Raivann's question about looking in posts in isolation after knox mentioned this: my response

302 Zaz dismisses ALL of KMD's points against CnrT

Is this a point against me, or did you post this due to Raivann's response of it?

She kept pushing on an on with my not voting in my first post.

Responded to this after Charter mentioned it. See this post

Zaz didn't like Mizz quiting post

Not true.

But anyway, am I the only one who doesn't like Mizz's last post

before

she announced that she'd like to be replaced? There were a few players with questions aimed at her, two players voted her for the posts before this one and someone unvoted her, because this vote was from the RVS. And the only thing she discussed was the unvote.

It was the post before the one where she told us she would leave that I didn't like. The reasons are stated above.

If they were scummier than Blue why you were voting blue?

You sure you have read this game in context?
I had my vote on CntR at the end of day 1

I've read it. But I don't really see your point about SoaD's mother.

I asked him why he didn't mention Blue day 1 at all. He told us that his mother was in the hospital. However, he had time to post his 'crazy theory'. So why did he have time to post a 'crazy theory' with his mother in the hospital, but not to post his opinion of Blue (Blue's most notable post was made before SoaD posted his 'crazy theory').

Too much back and forth joking commenting between Zaz and KMD.

This is what we always do.

I've been doing some research and Mizz actually quit Antarctic Mafia, and Idyllic mafia for the same reasons as this game.

The great discovery

I'll wait with my response to the other points you've made against the other players as we still have some time. I'll post them though before I go to bed.

[ZazieR]

Unvote Vote Kmd

Nothing in your posts day 2 has shown that you got a 'result' that I am scum. I'm gonna find quotes right now that disprove your statement.
Besides, the fact that you only claimed because you're at L-1 (which is not even true) is prove already that you're not the cop as you're risking us to be in Lylo tomorrow. If you were the cop, you'd have crumbed your target especially when trying this stunt.

[ZazieR]

Alex, check his posts day 2 and you know he's lying.

[ZazieR]

Why would he say that I can only be scum if CntR/ Clown is scum when he has a 'guilty result' on me?

[ZazieR]

And Kevin, why did you investigate me?

[ZazieR]

Alex, answer this question:
Why do you think Kmd's cop when looking at his posts today regarding his 'guilty result' on me?

[ZazieR]

IF YOU ARE THE ACTUAL COP, DO NOT COUNTERCLAIM!!!!

It's quite clear Kmd is lying, we don't need a counterclaim to prove it. Just vote him and move along.

QFFT

[ZazieR]

Exactly. And I could only be scum if CntR would flip scum.
If anyone thinks Kmd is the cop, I want to hear why he would say this as a cop.

[ZazieR]

That's because he's not the cop. All his actions regarding 'his result' don't make sense as he isn't the cop.

[ZazieR]

Kmd said that I could only be scum if CntR is scum.
That's what I meant with that quote.

So how does that make sense when he has a 'guilty result' on me?