Newbie 744 -- Game Over!

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

Conspicuous_other (2): Kmd4390, Raivann
Kmd4390 (2): charter, alexhans
knox (1): ZazieR
Raivann (1): knox

Not Voting: Conspicuous_other

4 to lynch, even at deadline.

[alexhans]

WARNING: LONG POST

(Read it only when you're clear headed. Important as hell.)
Well... It seems I failed again. I began to fear KMD after all that has happened and some things the replacements brought up. So I tried to trigger a response by the players to see how you reacted to my vote. Only 3 people posted and only one called my attention to it. I also can't stall my wait for reactions any longer because deadline is near. So...
First of All:

unvote

Charter didnt address my gut vote (but as it is his own vote it's not that strange) when he posted 22 minutes later.
Zaz noted the huge change and noted it, asked me to explain.
Knox didnt address my vote.

I've done a full re-read. Trying to be as much objective as possible. it took me like 3 hs to do this. I owed it to this game.
You may have noticed that I changed my view a lot. I'm not wary of Zaz now (at least not more than any other player in the game). This re-read has made me see that some of my last posts were very poor because I lacked info on what was going on. I was lost. 324 was an attempt to pressure you and see how would you respond.

Some thoughts about the last posts first:

Yes, it would make sense for two scumpartners to do so. It's called bussing.

yeah right! bussing each other to L-1.... Pretty good...

I'd also like to hear what happened to this:

I'm leaning to a CntR lynch right now. Pending reasons in an organized post. I want him to be able to answer all questions(including mine) before I really decide on his lynch. (assuming nobody unvotes, then I would only vote him and not hammer him)

331 is my case on CnrT. Zaz has asked for it many times, even after it. There it is. Haven't you seen it?


NOW my reads on every player (this was not looked at ISO but in the whole game, I just separated every player):
-----------------
Raivann (replacing MotandsArm)

I think her reaction- quitting - is scummy. So yeah i'm still happy with my

vote.

CntR are you scumbuddies with Ash?

This is the kind of anti-town statements I dislike.
When Ash is at L-1, unvotes, votes CnrT, When CnrT is at L-1, unvotes. (that looks

town to me, as scum he could just dissapear for a while)
votes blueshadow.

@ Zazie- Can you tell me how to look at just one player's posts in isolation?

Why Zaz and not both IC's?

@ the IC's - How do I look at 1 player's posts in isolation?

Finally, he did ask both. Zaz hadn't answered him...

Syndrome's last post does look fishy to me though. Looks like he's

bussing/distancing himself from CntR and it reads like it was planned.

After Zaz suspects Soad Raiv says he is fishy. THIS IS SCUMMY. throwing something

out to suspect with the flow.

Ok, thanks. I got my re-read done and I feel confident in a...

Vote:CntR

For all the reasons that have been previously stated by everyone
and I'm not believing his answers today

He puts CnrT at L-1 with little reasoning without making a case for himself. Scummy.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 570817]254: he

states a better case.
302Zaz

dismisses ALL of KMD's points against CnrT

I think Ash case is not as strong, because I think he just dropped the hammer

too quick.

So he is not more suspicious of Ash because of that? He already suspected him...
385 Is a measured and low key response not answering points but in general.
--------------

knox (replacing syndromeofadown)
79: Didn't feel confortable when Mizz mafia was at L-2 (oh.... but it his RVS so null

tell)
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 563205]230 by

SoaD. As if it was in the previous day. Responding to a dead yellowbunny and voting

for CnrT because he "is scummy and we've been over this".

what do you think of yellow's death. Why do you think mafia decided to kill

him/her?

Also, what do you think about me ignoring yellow's questions until after he/she was

dead? Coincidence?

It seems ‘convenient’ that you decide to post you opinion on Zazie’s post now that I have voiced my suspicions, even though it had been days since the post and you posted in between without a comment to it.

This seems to be a trend with Raiv.
--------------

charter (replacing AshKetchummm, who replaced Mizz.Mafia)
Mizz never adressed a point. She kept throwing around the sexist thing till she

quit.
Ash replaces and says that mizz was kinda scummy but then he saw she was really

inexperienced.
105: points at SoaD for making a joke... mmm...
In retrospect, not reading your role and posting who you think is scummy is weird.

Raivann, seems like you were pushing pretty hard for her in the beginning and

are still going for it strong through me

Trying to get an innocent out quick in the beginning?

This is were Ash starts going on for Raivann.
137: Is a

stretch rushed case on Raiv. OMGUS?
170: Ash tries to

hammer CnrT!!! without much case.

Well even though it wasn't the hammer, I feel my vote is still

in the right spot, and Cnt hasn't given a valid reason as to why I shouldn't vote for

him.

Not liking this.

Well I gave valid reasons to support my vote, and I really think that he

is scum, and also he has made no attempt to prove that he is innocent, all he did was

say that he an erratic player, and then went on to point the direction at someone

else, simply because they answered a question with a question.

This is a good point by Ash.

I'm much more confident in a Cnt lynch then a blue lynch right now. So

I'm keeping my vote on Cnt.

Then why he hammered Blue?
hammer by

ash Didn't like this at all... As I've said.
Charter replaces and votes Zaz without saying why.

FOS syndromeofadown for 87.

Ok... he foses but doesn't say why. 87. Why do you FOS this? What's scumym about it?

You guys lynched syndromeofadown for 95, right?

What's this... State your f%&/%$& reasons when you say something.
I don't like charter's posts where he doesn't explain anything but appear to be helping.

Ok, one of blueshadow and Raivann is scum. Figuring out which one will be the tough part.

Seeing blue is dead... Raivann is scum to you? eh?

181- kmd, what? I've never seen you pull something like that as town before.

What? WHAT?!

254- This looks important, but it's late and I didn't read it. Will come back to it later and see what I think.

264- Same deal.

I really skimmed the last two or so pages.

Really helpful

Yes, but CntRational had posted early in the game, it gave me town vibes.

post 60, a lurker lynch is a great scum tool if people in the town accept it

Actually, now that I look back over his posts, I'm unsure why I thought his early posting gave me town vibes. That was really the only one in the first several pages.

You left CntRational when he was at L-1 because "discussion is good"

He has a point against KMD here. KMD should've been more cautious. His vote seemed opportunistic all right.

54- If Dennis1993 is ever revealed scum, syndromeofadown is his partner.

first blue or shadow. Now dennis and Soad.... How do you throw those unsupported accusations like that?
LOOK AT THE FUCKING POST 52 for god's sake.

141- Holy crap. Raivann just sweeps his loaded question under the rug. Very scummy.

I dont get it. Look at the said post:

lazy scumhunting.

This charter post is so tiring. having to go to the source each time to try to understand what he is talking about!! It's misleading. I don't know who else followed every post. I did know and find so many inconsistencies that it sucks. It looks scummy.
Then votes KMD saying Probable scum team is KMD RAiv.
--------------


Conspicuous_other (replacing CntRational)
CnrT's care of voting someone who has a vote was weird.
151: Here

is the condemning move of CnrT. Vote to get things going that early. Leaving him at

L-1.
Votes blue after he is getting heat. Forgets about Ash?
204:"Hmm...

Blue is at Lynch-1 now...should we wait for him to post? ". Another Super scummy

post by CnrT.

2. I find Day 1 very boring when it lasts long, so I wanted to end it as soon

as possible, so we can get on to more interesting discussions based on more solid

evidence, rather than the straw catching of Day 1.

This is totally inconsisten with his not voting for fear of putting someone

at L-2.
His defense in 242 is not satisfactory.
Conspic replaces and votes Ash. mainly for the two hammers (one almost)

I thought this might come up. If I'm scumbuddies with charter, that means I was scumbuddies with ash, and if I was scumbuddies with ash, post 319 doesn't make much sense, now does it?

Makes sense. A lot of sense.
--------------


ZazieR*
She kept pushing on an on with my not voting in my first post.
Zaz didn't like Mizz quiting post.
Votes for CnrT because of the L-1 on Ash.

You're wrong Yellowbunny. They are definitly scummy. In my opinion even

scummier than blue

If they were scummier than Blue why you were voting blue?

Also, I'm not gonna state my opinion why I think that Yellowbunny was the NK.

In my opinion, it will only lead to WIFOM.

I don't think speculating night choices is that bad. But seeing yellow was new we

have less info.
I've read it. But I don't really see your point about SoaD's mother.
--------------


Kmd4390*

I thought it was weird that I hadn't jokevoted you before, so I looked

at our past games.

Cnt was the one I had a problem with. At least until I looked up his

meta. The FoS without voting always looks suspicious to me. In the RVS, it's even

worse. But seeing that he played a cautious game as town in his other game, I think

that's a null tell as well. Maybe even a slight town tell.

Didn't you later used this to make a case against CnrT?

Zazie: Answered a question Mizz asked pre-game. Normal IC procedure there.

Asked Mizz a question to help get things started. Said more about Mizz AFTER she was

replaced than while she was actually playing.

This may not be important but notice how KMD always seems to be justifying Zaz's

actions.
Votes, after Zaz, for CnrT because of the L-1 on Ash.
Asks Blue why he voted Raiv. (when blue hadn't explained)

Hum...Well, since we cannot continue ahead

without blue, we can discuss a few things while he's gone...

Why not?

This is excessive. It looks like being sure you're always asking questions. Being

on the detective side.

1) The FoS in the RVS when you weren't voting anyone. I saw this as cautious

play matching your meta, but that's wrong as you have been more aggressive lately.

2) The fear of putting SoaD at L-2 which is notable because of your L-1 vote on Ash

later.

3) Calling out Dennis for lurking when a few others were worse offenders,

specifically Mizz.

4) Also quick to jump on the "lurker" who had posted 30 hours before you called him

out.

5) Called Mizz a confused townie and then voted Ash 3 posts later with little

reasoning.

6) Placed Ash at L-1 with little reasoning. Looks like you want to lynch pretty

quickly there.

1) you cleared him before but condemn him now? Convenient change of mind.
2) This is a good point. Very Good.
3) This is a null tell IMO. I forget about things too.
4) Same as before. I jumped in my second game to lurkers for less than 24 hours of

posting.
5) linked with 6
6) This is weird. but it's mainly point 2.
It looks like out of 1 good Point you made actually spread into 6! To make your case

seem better?

KMD quickly votes for CnrT for the same reasons as yesterday. No talking about the

kills? Weird.

Hmm. I actually don't see the case on SoaD.

But doesn't say why...

Raiv, can you give some reasons of your own why CnT is scummy? Or even just

tell us what specific points against him you agree with and what answers you don't

believe?

So CnTscum=SoaD +scum points, Ash +town points. Remember this if CnT flips

scum.

I agree with the later. I don't know why the former should be like

that.

Also, I hope you realize if CnT flips scum, you get scum points for defending him like this.

I have missed this previously. It is suspicious.

3. Yes, witholding info is scummy.

Unless, as you said, it touches rolefishing...
-----------

Isolated thoughts:
Zaz and KMD asked CnrT and me why no vote.
Too much back and forth joking commenting between Zaz and KMD.
I don't see Ash and Raiv being on a scumteam.
I don't see Ash and CnrT being on a scumteam.
I've been doing some research and Mizz actually quit Antarctic Mafia, and Idyllic

mafia for the same reasons as this game. Although she talked a whole lot more in

Antartic.
@KMD: What is your read on Raiv?

I don't like Mizz/Ash/Charter in general and think his lynch might provide us good information. CnrT I think did some scummy things but I'm not willing to lynch him because I think he is town.
Raiv and KMD I'm wary of. But KMD seems to give more to the game. So maybe Raiv's lynch is a good one.

[charter]

alex, I will read that post later tonight, but I skimmed it and I just saw an unvote. We have one day until deadline, you need to place a vote. (ignore this if I just missed a vote)

[alexhans]

I will... I just need to think about it and get answers to my post.

As I've said I would go with either Charter, Raiv or KMD.

[charter]

alex,

Ok... he foses but doesn't say why. 87. Why do you FOS this? What's scumym about it?

Here is 87.

It's not really the fact that it's dangerous, it's just my vote for her wasn't because I thought she was mafia. It was because I wanted to get the game going with a vote to get a read on how people react.

Normally when someone says "I did XXXX to get reactions" that comes after they get called out for something, and they are scum, and they are trying to put some legit reasoning behind their action. It doesn't really matter the reason for their original action, it happens because the scum perceives what someone else says as an attack and try and quickly defend against it.

What's this... State your f%&/%$& reasons when you say something.
I don't like charter's posts where he doesn't explain anything but appear to be helping.

..that's how I make posts whenever I replace into a game. Short and sweet. I am not a fan of long posts, so I try and avoid making them. I know I don't explain my thoughts very well, but I do the same thing whenever I replace in to a game (which is often, so I don't have time to make gigantic posts).

I hope it wasn't me, I'm not trying to be mean! I'm just trying to win!

This is just a really scummy statement. Scum try and 'win', town lynches scum.

Seeing blue is dead... Raivann is scum to you? eh?

He's one of my top two suspects. I could gladly vote him and lynch him if there is more support than Kmd4390.

first blue or shadow. Now dennis and Soad.... How do you throw those unsupported accusations like that?
LOOK AT THE FUCKING POST 52 for god's sake.

This was syndromeofadown's post.

Lot's of people haven't posted since voting, why single out Dennis specifically?

He's defending Dennis, why on earth would he do that if he isn't scum?

alexhans, about post 141, Ash asks Raivann this.

Than what does this quote entitle?

CntR are you scumbuddies with Ash?

And Raivann simply dismisses it.

unvote, vote Raivann

because with less than a day left, me being the only one voting Kmd is a waste of my vote.

[alexhans]

Well... I screwed the post... I forgot to disable the line formatting and it separates the lines now. But I don't have the last version saved to repost. Read it carefully. Also, I mixed up some parts. There's a thing about Zaz in Raivanns part. Screwed a lot of [url quotes... But you can copy paste them or look at the number. I'm sorry if isn't the easiest read. But make an effort if you're town.

[alexhans]

Normally when someone says "I did XXXX to get reactions" that comes after they get called out for something, and they are scum, and they are trying to put some legit reasoning behind their action. It doesn't really matter the reason for their original action, it happens because the scum perceives what someone else says as an attack and try and quickly defend against it.

That was SoaD's RVS vote.

..that's how I make posts whenever I replace into a game. Short and sweet. I am not a fan of long posts, so I try and avoid making them. I know I don't explain my thoughts very well, but I do the same thing whenever I replace in to a game (which is often, so I don't have time to make gigantic posts).

yes, But as I've said in post 345 you don't explain your comments nor link the numbers so It's awfully hard to follow you. It could be seen as trying to make it harder so we just take your word for it.

This is just a really scummy statement. Scum try and 'win', town lynches scum.

I disagree... I want to win. I want to find scum to win. Finding scum is not my ultimate goal. My goal is finding scum and saying: IN YOUR FACE! I feel you're stretching too hard here.

He's defending Dennis, why on earth would he do that if he isn't scum?

Why wouldn't he. He didn't necesarilly defend Dennis. He just noted that he wasn't the only one. I call that investigating.

MOD

(or whoever): Deadline is how many hours from now exactly? I'm at GMT -3 and it's 2:40 AM. ET is GMT - 4 so it would be 23:00 today in GMT -3 right?

[charter]

Deadline is 21 hours 45 minutes from this post.

[Raivann]

Quote:

@ Zazie- Can you tell me how to look at just one player's posts in isolation?


Why Zaz and not both IC's?
Quote:
@ the IC's - How do I look at 1 player's posts in isolation?

Finally, he did ask both. Zaz hadn't answered him...

Why does everyone keep bringing up this. Kmd was V/LA when I first asked.

Anyway, Insightful post alex, except for the whole lynching me part.
You have better points against CntR and Ash than anyone else. But for some reason CntR gets a free pass after you acknowledge his scummy posts, I don't understand that one.

Your 180 on Kmd is strange too, he was all but confirmed town to you earlier. Where is Kmd anyway?

Lynches i would support:

Conspicous_other/CntR- been over it

Knox/syndrome- Zazie has strong case against him and his case against me feels forced

Charter/Ash/mizz - mainly for play of mizz/ash. Charter is strong player obviously , I'm just not sure if he's town or scum.

[Raivann]

Ok guess I'll claim then. I'm just a townie, no special powers or anything.
I'm also gonna

unvote , Vote:Knox

for Zazie's birthday present.
And he's prob scum too.

[ZazieR]

Post 401 (Alex)

yeah right! bussing each other to L-1.... Pretty good...

It happens. Even in newbie games.

331 is my case on CnrT. Zaz has asked for it many times, even after it. There it is. Haven't you seen it?

What I actually meant was to ask why you voted Kevin with as reason gut, instead of CntR against whom you've made a case. So please answer.


Have already answered why I didn't answer Raivann's question about looking in posts in isolation after knox mentioned this: my response

302 Zaz dismisses ALL of KMD's points against CnrT

Is this a point against me, or did you post this due to Raivann's response of it?

She kept pushing on an on with my not voting in my first post.

Responded to this after Charter mentioned it. See this post

Zaz didn't like Mizz quiting post

Not true.

But anyway, am I the only one who doesn't like Mizz's last post

before

she announced that she'd like to be replaced? There were a few players with questions aimed at her, two players voted her for the posts before this one and someone unvoted her, because this vote was from the RVS. And the only thing she discussed was the unvote.

It was the post before the one where she told us she would leave that I didn't like. The reasons are stated above.

If they were scummier than Blue why you were voting blue?

You sure you have read this game in context?
I had my vote on CntR at the end of day 1

I've read it. But I don't really see your point about SoaD's mother.

I asked him why he didn't mention Blue day 1 at all. He told us that his mother was in the hospital. However, he had time to post his 'crazy theory'. So why did he have time to post a 'crazy theory' with his mother in the hospital, but not to post his opinion of Blue (Blue's most notable post was made before SoaD posted his 'crazy theory').

Too much back and forth joking commenting between Zaz and KMD.

This is what we always do.

I've been doing some research and Mizz actually quit Antarctic Mafia, and Idyllic mafia for the same reasons as this game.

The great discovery

I'll wait with my response to the other points you've made against the other players as we still have some time. I'll post them though before I go to bed.

[alexhans]

You have better points against CntR and Ash than anyone else. But for some reason CntR gets a free pass after you acknowledge his scummy posts, I don't understand that one.

I just feel that it's more probable that his lynch was scum driven and I liked Conspic responses. Charter/Raiv/KMD lynch can provide us with more info.

I don't recall YOU making a case against SoaD... Jumping on Zaz's waggon now?

Man... You only had 2 votes.... Why on earth would you claim early? And vanilla? Seriously man... That makes you only more suspicious.

180 is a post by yellowbunny by the way...

[Conspicuous_other]

Ok, I meant to post this yesterday, but for some reason my post didn't go through? Anyway, this is mostly from memory, I'll get to new stuff hopefully later today, but I do have a track meet, so no promises..

Not really. You could still do that as scum. To distance yourself from him.

Ash put cntr at L-1, apparently thinking he was hammering? And the post had no real reasoning to lead to a lynch? I don't think a scum partner would take it quite that far that fast...

Clown

Looks like yet another game has given me this nickname. I'm cool with it, but I've become rather used to being called C_O, so I can't promise I'll catch everything addressed to me this way.

You've only mentioned one point why Charter is probably town, while saying that there are more reasons.

When did I say that?

And I don't understand the bolded. Can you please rephrase it?

I'll have to do this later, sorry.

Why the fos?

Just making sure I wasn't missing anything huge. However, since it's deadline time,

Vote: kmd

[Kmd4390]

Ok, I need to catch up.

I'll do that after class, but I see I'm at L-1, so claim time.

I'm a cop. I have a guilty on Zaz, but wanted to find her partner before lynching her. The way she defended CO makes me think it's him.

But since I have claimed that now and am dead tonight for sure, I guess it's on the rest of the town to find the other scum now.

Unvote, Vote ZazieR

There's two ways to do this. Lynch Zaz now and see that she is scum, confirming me OR lynch me now (as I'm dead tonight anyway) and her tomorrow when I flip cop.

Either way, we should win this game.

[alexhans]

WOW...

vote ZazieR

. Guess I was right with my first gut call.

[ZazieR]

Unvote Vote Kmd

Nothing in your posts day 2 has shown that you got a 'result' that I am scum. I'm gonna find quotes right now that disprove your statement.
Besides, the fact that you only claimed because you're at L-1 (which is not even true) is prove already that you're not the cop as you're risking us to be in Lylo tomorrow. If you were the cop, you'd have crumbed your target especially when trying this stunt.

[ZazieR]

Alex, check his posts day 2 and you know he's lying.

[ZazieR]

Why would he say that I can only be scum if CntR/ Clown is scum when he has a 'guilty result' on me?

[ZazieR]

And Kevin, why did you investigate me?

[alexhans]

Also... KMD... you werent at L-1, I had unvoted in that huge post... I don't know if your read it. you were at L-2 with Charter's and Conspic's votes.

[charter]

Ok, I need to catch up.

I'll do that after class, but I see I'm at L-1, so claim time.

I'm a cop. I have a guilty on Zaz, but wanted to find her partner before lynching her. The way she defended CO makes me think it's him.

But since I have claimed that now and am dead tonight for sure, I guess it's on the rest of the town to find the other scum now.

Unvote, Vote ZazieR

There's two ways to do this. Lynch Zaz now and see that she is scum, confirming me OR lynch me now (as I'm dead tonight anyway) and her tomorrow when I flip cop.

Either way, we should win this game.

Wow, I was totally right. Guys, look at Kmd4390's posts today, and tell me if he made those knowing ZazieR is scum. The answer is, no he did not. Look at 313 for a huge one, he's agreeing with ZazieR. I would never conceed arguments against someone I knew was scum. Aaaand, this finale

I only see Zazie as scum if CnT is scum.

Yeah...

unvote, vote Kmd4390

[charter]

alex, look at those posts I showed and tell me if you think Kmd4390 is actually cop.

IF YOU ARE THE ACTUAL COP, DO NOT COUNTERCLAIM!!!!

It's quite clear Kmd is lying, we don't need a counterclaim to prove it. Just vote him and move along.

[alexhans]

we are 7... mislynch takes us to lylo... we can either trust him and lynch Zaz... and get a townie... then we go for KMD... otherwise we go for KMD we might get scum, but if we don't we kill the cop... But the cop is probably gonna die anyway...

It's 50-50 really here. But seeing I was suspicious of Zaz before and it was really a gut call... I'm gonna stick with it.

wait... someone wants to Counter Claim? that should be enough proof that KMD is lying at the risk of outing yourselves and being killed tomorrow... But we will have lynched scum...

[charter]

Just so that no one gets any ideas, I assume Kmd is going to flip scum, that DOES NOT mean that ZazieR is not his partner. Entirely possible she is...

[ZazieR]

Alex, answer this question:
Why do you think Kmd's cop when looking at his posts today regarding his 'guilty result' on me?