Mini 672 - Tranquility (Game Over)

[charter]

##vote melikefood

Still kicking myself for killing you in Ramen mafia.

[charter]

## Vote: Nameless

No confirmation. Obvscum.

Wouldn't that be obvtown?

[charter]

It was a poor joke.

[charter]

Yeah, down with those townies!

[charter]

lol, I don't really care for baseball.

[charter]

##unvote, ##vote Rishi

For the same reasons as Nameless's a and b.

[charter]

I actually kind of like them. But I like the monkey even more.

[charter]

Interesting that you vote me now, after my trivial and meaningless comment. Why not vote for me right after I voted Rishi? What is wrong with a healthy bandwagon on Rishi early in day one?

[charter]

You didn't answer my questions camn.

[charter]

I spelled out why I was voting Rishi, they were not because I think he's a townie.

[charter]

Wait, so I'm not allowed to agree with people anymore?

[charter]

Why so quick to vote Rishi, you ask? Besides the two points I agreed with Nameless upon? It was the first wagon I could get to three votes. I thought the info gained from a larger wagon would outweigh the info gained from three smaller wagons. I believe we have gained quite a bit of information from my third vote on Rishi, with admittedly little reason, and none of my own.

I'd prefer votecounts in their own post LG,

but I don't really care a whole lot one way or the other.

[charter]

Camn votes and questions me for 'bandwagoning' Rishi to a harmless three votes. Nameless brings up good points in 54. Drake makes a good post in 61. Mostly a lot of discussion since then has risen from the Rishiwagon. I see a possible camn-Rishi connection from all this.

[charter]

Where is the backpedal exactly? I'm not really seeing it.

[charter]

Ohhh, why pick Jdodge over melikefood?

[charter]

My question is different than yours...

[charter]

Sorry I haven't posted in a while. A few people have said some interesting things, but I think pressure on Rishi is the way to go right now.

[charter]

Food, you manage to say what "we" (I assume you mean a large portion of the town) want. What does melikefood want? What questions/whatever do you have for others?

[charter]

I

really

dont like the last two posts by melikefood.

Oddly enough, I do.

Rishi, post or die.

[charter]

Oddly enough, I do.

Rishi, post or die.

Why (to the first)?

He acted just like this in Ramen mafia and was town.

[charter]

It may be too soon to judge, but if this trend continues I'd consider Kmd highly suspect as scum attempting to remain active without actually contributing.

Setting himself up to be on Kmd's wagon if it becomes popular.

It was the first wagon I could get to three votes.

FOS: Charter

Mindlessly joining any bandwagon that comes along doesn't help without addressing specific issues, and the threat of lynching is meaningless if you don't really suspect them.

Portraying me as trying to get a fast lynch in, when I was just pushing the first bandwagon I could a little bit higher than the rest to spur discussion.

Stormer is 'obvscum', but if he gets quick lynched when we still have plenty of D1 left to gather information on others I, for one, will be a little bit annoyed even if he IS newbie scum. (Alternatively, stormer is newbie cop 'cunningly' diverting the scum's attention elsewhere. Stormer, don't reply to that.)

...

Now Watching Suspiciously: Spyrex. All you've done thus far is echo things other people have brought up (ie. Rishi and stormer wagon) or focus overly much on OOT discussion.

Setting himself up to be on the Spyrex and Stormer wagons. We're up to four people he suspects now.

#94 by stef could easily be considered unnecessary given I'd asked the same question and (more lightheartedly) commented on the same refusal in the previous post.

Kind of directing unwarrented (in my opinion) suspicion at stef.

Yikes, stormer is scaring me. But would scum really be this obvious?

Hmm, Rishi is attracting my suspicion. But would a scum partner really use such blatant WIFOM?

(Yes. Yes, they would.)

He's setting himself up to hop on the Rishi wagon. This is the fourth person he's done this to.

Also, attention seems to have moved casually away from stormer in this last page without any further defence by him. This may be indicative that stormer actually IS scum ... if he were merely clueless innocent, I would have expected the scum to be pushing harder for his lynch than has been done. However, if stormer is scum, it would go some way as to explaining why we're suddenly arguing again over an older issue.

Playing both sides of the stormer issue, so he's ready to switch to whichever gains favor.

Theory (ie. gut-tell): Either Kmd and Steff are both poorly thinking innocents or they are both scum heavily bussing each other with whatever they can think of. Somehow I can't quite get my head around the fact that either of them could be entirely in the right ...

Stef has been officially upgraded to possible scum. The total count is six now (stormer, Rishi, stef, spyrex, charter, and Kmd). Could be seven, he could have suspected camn, but I might have missed it under everyone else.

Regarding melikefood, his last post has changed my opinion of him; at first I suspected he was scum and was preparing to push for his lynch, maybe a week before deadline, if nothing else took - now, however, I am forced to assume melikefood is a troll. Or a goddamn jester.

I must have missed where he first started suspecting Food (I didn't, he only mentions Food in passing really). Regardless, it looks like he still does, that's number seven.

Melikesfood and Stormer need to die. And they're probably scum too.
Kmd and Malyss, as of now, are most likely to be scum.
Charter needs to start contributing, and may well be lurker scum.

## Vote: melikesfood

Dang, he saved me the trouble of finding all those posts. I don't think you realize there aren't five scum in a mini.

I wanted to do this a while back, but I couldn't very well pressure Rishi to post something if I had. My reasons - He constantly makes little posts saying how he suspects someone when they're coming under a little suspicion. He tries to find out which way the wind is blowing constantly (aka. wishy washy on his stances. hello camn). Has managed to name five people as almost definitive scum, I'd agree with maybe one of those assessments at most. Despite naming all these as scum, he also has some posts where he can go back tomorrow after a mislynch, and quote saying how he wasn't sure they were scum. He's being very quick to jump on people, and is being opportunistic.

##unvote Rishi, ##vote nameless

Along with this comes suspicion towards Drake and Porkens, because you are the two that he didn't suspect.

[charter]

Can anyone on food's wagon tell me what he has done that makes him scum? I'll give you that he isn't being terribly helpful, and his claim out of nowhere is unorthodox, but I don't see anything that points to him being scum.

[charter]

You're digging too deep into what I'm saying. But if nameless does get lynched today, and is scum, I will without a doubt be much more suspicious of Drake and Porkens.

Also, my case against him is not OMGUS, as the points are from the entire game. Also, he named half the people as scum in that post. That was also my first wholly original post this game I believe, it just happens to be a coincidence that I was one of the chosen scum in his post. (Also, like I said, I wanted to post it much earlier, but was waiting on Rishi).

[charter]

I'm really not seeing a Nameless lynch today off of that. Stormer AND Melikefood have both been a little more off-cuff. You're gonna need more to persuade me than agressive finger-pointing by Nameless.

I absolutely will not advocate a Food lynch today (unless something new comes up). I will go back and look at the stormer case and see if there's any merit besides the cop fishing. I don't like how you are limiting the options for today to between two people, one of which I firmly believe is town.

Nameless is basically confirming my points against him, so I'm quite happy with my vote there.

Oh, and I like the way you assume that if I made a minor point against somebody early D1 that I must therefore still consider them a very likely suspect now (see: your 'suspect count').

Perhaps I missed it, but did you ever say you weren't suspicious of them anymore? I didn't see it, so that led me to believe that you still are. You just kept on fingering others.

I don't think you realize there aren't five scum in a mini.

The five I mentioned are the five players I currently suspect the most of being scum (hardly, as you say, "almost definitive") Obviously they're not all scum (unless LG is really evil, anyway ) but I expect most (ideally all) of the scum to be within that group.

It's absolutely ridiculous to have the scum all pinned down this early in day one. You can't possibly know anyone else's role (if you're town, which you claim) so for you to have 'found' all the scum already, is quite absurd.

I'd agree with maybe one of those assessments at most

Go on then ... which one?

Malyss perhaps. I haven't looked too hard at him or stormer though. I'm not scum. I don't think Food is, as I've said. Also, Kmd seems to be hunting for scum rather than piling on to the easy wagon (Food) and is giving me a strong town vibe.

Along with this comes suspicion towards Drake and Porkens, because you are the two that he didn't suspect.

So then you expect that Nameless, as scum, has made the newbie-ish mistake of fingering everybody in this game except for his two scum buddies?

I think that's a strong possibility, however, it's meaningless until I know nameless's role.

[charter]

I played in Ramen mafia with him and this is like a mirror of his play. He was town there. He also had a pretty ridiculous claim picture there. Also, I don't think he's done anything scummy or opportunistic. I'll agree that claiming out of the blue generally isn't helpful to the town, but as long as he's not the doc or cop, I don't think it's harmful. There are some roles that are good to make out of the blue claims, ask camn about it.

[charter]

Are you serious? So now my only option is thinking that Food is scum? Do I have no free will to think what I want? I don't think I even need nameless to flip scum before I make a case on you, I'll do next chance I get. Pending the reread, I'll be willing to vote either Drake or keep it on nameless, whichever I can get more support for.

I'd say drake is obvscum for his blatent not even considering the other side of this issue, and in fact, trying to get others to blindly follow him without thinking for themselves. There's no law saying I have to agree with everyone, and I'm not going to on this issue.

[charter]

... I'll be willing to vote either Drake ...

LOL, obvOMGUS.

LOL, obvBLATENT LIES.

Seriously? He hasn't pointed suspicion at me. He's trying to tell me that I have no choice but to conform to what he wants. That's scumlogic. You are clearly just saying whatever you can to shift blame off you, meaning I'm on to something. Nice.

[charter]

Ugh, simulpost. This post is crap.

Are you serious? So now my only option is thinking that Food is scum? Do I have no free will to think what I want? I don't think I even need nameless to flip scum before I make a case on you, I'll do next chance I get. Pending the reread,

I'll be willing to vote either Drake or keep it on nameless, whichever I can get more support for.

I'd say drake is obvscum for his blatent not even considering the other side of this issue, and in fact, trying to get others to blindly follow him without thinking for themselves. There's no law saying I have to agree with everyone, and I'm not going to on this issue.

Clever.

There's certainly no law saying you have to agree with everyone, and your options are certainly open as to whoever you think is suspicious or otherwise. But when you make those known, it's generally pretty good to have some in-game evidence to support your conclusions instead of "This player played this way in this game." You haven't said anything about Food's actions in this game except that you thought his clamed was oddly timed and that you didn't find his actions scummy or opportunistic, but that's a pretty easy catch-all considering there have been some pretty specific accusations.

I believe food to be town because of meta reasons and I don't think scum would claim like he did. I know for a fact there are protown reasons to claim like that, and he might have them. I'm not discussing it, because then it will be worthless, so don't ask.

Incidentally, you're completely misrepresenting me in your second paragraph and I don't think anybody else is going to fall for that interpretation of what I said. Your case against Nameless is similarly full of it, considering that you yourself are fingering people just for not being mentioned by him - something you admit is meaningless until you know Nameless's alignment - which is the main thing you accuse him of.

Why can't you accept my read on Food? Why can't I think him town?

Also: The bolded section makes you look like exactly what you're accusing me of: pursuing somebody single-mindedly and trying to get others to follow blindly.

No. First off, I'm not pursuing anyone single mindedly, and I'm not telling others they need to think the same as me. You can post lies, but you can't back them up, so it will be easy for me to keep shooting them down.

[charter]

Nameless, what you have just done is OMGUS. You need to go read the wiki and learn what it actually is rather than just throw the term around.

[charter]

Charter is defending melikefood. Period. I do not like this

regardless of melikefoods alignment

.

I think it's quite obvious I defended him, why? I think the wagon on him is unwarrented and scumheavy. Like I said, there are valid reasons to act like he is, and after the last game I was in, I'm not ruling anything out. I'm not trying to prove any of that, but it's my reasons why I'm defending him.

Amazingly I agree with everything in 279.

Charter - Kmd - Stormer scumteam FTW.

Good luck with that one. You have at most one scum there.

[charter]

@ charter... why is it "amazing" that you agree with 279? Drakes points about Stormer are pretty reasonable. Is it his comments about you that you "amazingly" agree with?

I think he's scum. I generally don't agree with much of what scum say (as it's normally lies).

[charter]

I never said I thought stormer is scum, so your assumption there is yours, and isn't based on anything I've said. I'm not sure on stormer either way.

[charter]

I'm quite glad that drake was killed. This narrows my suspects down to one.

##vote Nameless

[charter]

@ Charter: If you were in a 3 man endgame with Kmd and Porkens, who would you vote?

Meh, think I'd go with a Porkens vote.

[charter]

I really haven't seen a whole lot that porkens has done that was scummy (though I can go back and check I suppose). The hammer was a little premature (aka, before a claim) but the stormer lynch was inevitable. I've already made my case against you, you're still the scummiest person by far in my eyes, for reasons I pointed out yesterday.

While my posts may have been short, they are certainly not 'noncontributing'.

[charter]

Aside from myself, which one player do you consider mostly likely to be scum and why?

Sorry, missed that my first time around. Not really sure, I suppose Porkens is actually my second most suspicious, but it's not a very heavy suspicion.

[charter]

I have other suspects, but none of them are all that good. I don't really see the need to pursue three people all at once when we're only lynching one each day. All it does is lets the townies know where I stand on everyone, which I think is more beneficial to the townies than the rest of my fellow mafiosos, hence why I'm not anxious to post an analysis of every player.

Also, Food, do not answer any questions pertaining to any ability you might have unless it's in our (uninformed majority's) interest. It'd be a shame if such a blatent baiting actually worked.

[charter]

I've got a whole bunch of wow AGAIN.

So, the events of day 2 (with a short visit to day 1), in a nutshell. Let me know if I miss anything.

1. KMD, Melikefood & Charter start on Porkens about the hammer.

I actually said nothing about Porkens at the start of day two.

There's some other incosistancies in your post as well.

[charter]

Ack, didn't realize it'd been ages since I posted here. If I forgot to respond to one of your posts/questions, let me know, I just missed it.

Here's some more incosistancies, no idea if someone has already pointed them out or not (have to catch up on the last few pages). This may not be all, but it's what I get off the top of my head (quite a few).

4. Porkens softclaims claims a power role.

No, Porkens goes rolefishing towards Food.

6. Charter gleefly declares he has one suspect and votes him.

Quite true.

15. Charter says that he's going to be lazy & tells one of the openly known PR's to not share information because its baiting.

This is probably more of a matter of opinion, but I'm not being lazy. I've already explained why I'm not giving every thought I have about everyone. The opinions I've formed are all there, if someone wonders where I stand or what I think on something, ask, and I will tell.

2. KMD goes after Camn about saying #1 but being on the wagon.

It's not so much Camn being on the wagon that bothers me. It's the fact that she was on it AS A PRESSURE VOTE AND WAS OK WITH LYNCHING AND THEN COMES OUT AND GOES AFTER PORKENS FOR HAMMERING. Seriously, if you say you are ok with a lynch, be ok with it after it happens. The reasoning (pressure vote) was bad enough, but this just makes it worse.

This is the best thing brought up today.

Second... Why is melikefood alive? Food.. If you ARE a roleblocker.. and the mafia DOES have a choice in who executes kills at night.... telling them who you are going to block defeats the whole purpose. Don't do it any more. Don't even drop hints.

More role fishing.

@Nameless, can you please state your reasons for voting kmd in 365.

@Stef, can you please state your reasons for voting camn in 366.

As camn said, I'm curious about why the townscum didn't kill melikefood. The scum probably didn't think it was a big deal that he was blocking Porkens.

Just ask for everyone to speculate for you so you know what they will think tonight as well. No need to shroud it by attempting to look useful.

Porkens in 378, 380. People get lynched over less than that.

Nameless in 387, doesn't answer Porken's questions (ridiculous though they were). Scummy because I do that when I'm scum.

@Porkens in 394, that post is a load of crap. You've never seen an obvious mislynch and been powerless to stop it? I see them all the time.

What does everyone think of Food now?

Still not a good person to lynch today.

Nameless is grasping at thin air to put together a case against kmd in 415.

Nameless is still scum, and my vote will remain on him.

[charter]

6. Charter gleefly declares he has one suspect and votes him.

Quite true.

But there is obviously more than one scum. Who would be most likely to be the others?

Ehh, I haven't seen much that connects scum together, but independantly Nameless is number one, I'm still saying Porkens is number two, and three is basically a toss up between rishi or camn.

@Porkens in 394, that post is a load of crap. You've never seen an obvious mislynch and been powerless to stop it? I see them all the time.

Give me a break. He didn't try to stop it. He was setting himself up to look right when Stormer flipped mafioso.

I don't see this as scummy. He's not waving it around saying "I was right yesterday, listen to me today!"

As for your multiple declarations of role-fishing, melikefood already hard-claimed. How the hell can you rolefish someone who has told you what their role is? What further information, other than what I asked for, do you think I was trying to get??

Ha, there is plenty more information to get. I can think of several roles that have been in games I've been in that a claim like food's on day one could actually be (and he would be telling the truth as well).

[charter]

No, Porkens goes rolefishing towards Food.

I'm assuming this is the inconsistencies in my post. So lets get started!
a.) Day one MLF claims Roleblocker.
b.) He also states he's going to RB Porkens in twilight.
c.) Porkens asks if MLF RB'd him.

NOW, these things all happened. Where we run into a difference in opinion in the implication of c.

I assumed that it was: Porkens asks if MLF RB'd him (because he was a power role and his action didn't go through).
Porkens said it was: Porkens asks if MLF RB'd him (so that later it is documented and if MLF is scum he can't lie about it).
You say I misinterpet it because Porkens is.... rolefishing? On a role that already claimed? And SAID what they were going to do?

I don't see a reason a protown player is as interested in Food's role as Porkens is. Since I can see we aren't going to drop this, I'm just going to do an extremely unhelpful thing and post why Food's claim is far from a full claim, it's a soft claim at best. First, he could be a roleblocker, could be a jailer, could be a one shot of either of those, could be a jack of all trades, could be a few others.
About his claim in twilight, "you're getting teh morphine tonight" is far from a claim that Food will roleblock Porkens...
Porken's question. It's true, porkens could be a PR and his action didn't go through. However, if that's true, porkens would know this and wouldn't even need to ask. The fact that he does ask makes me think he's scum looking for threats. Basically, town (uniformed majority) has no motive to ask a question like he did.

So, here you say you have suspects but you're not going to pursue them. Instead, you're focusing on your one suspect without really giving a case and then doing nothing.

Are you serious? Are you even reading this thread? I've posted my reasons for thinking Nameless is scum. They aren't convincing anybody, but that doesn't mean they are wrong.

Also, you don't see how its beneficial to post your stances on people and be proactive instead of waiting for people to ask you and responding. You don't see how that "not scumhunting" is easily taken as being.. scummy?

Possible, yes. Also possible, I list three people as scum, none of them are actually scum. Guess who's going to live tonight? Yep, charter sure will, and I'll be free to lynch any one of them tomorrow.

More role fishing.

Again, as awesome as it is to watch you do it over and over again... it can not be fishing when the fish is already caught FFS. We know what he's claimed, he SAID what he was going to do. You said Camn's telling MLF to NOT ANNOUNCE HIS ROLEBLOCK BECAUSE THAT IS RETARDED (one of the most town things Camn has done) is rolefishing? I... I...

Oh, you know what he's claimed? I've seen a picture with a circle around the word block. That's all I've seen really, the rest have been vague, at best, references to a half dozen other PRs. Talking about power role's actions completely negates them.

Ehh, I haven't seen much that connects scum together, but independantly Nameless is number one, I'm still saying Porkens is number two, and three is basically a toss up between rishi or camn.

Suspects? Check.
Reasons for anything in this game? ....

Oh, didn't see the part of Kmd's question asking for my reasons for suspecting them. Oh, it wasn't there. Are you asking for reasons I suspect them? This isn't a case or anything, but I feel like Porkens is trying to cover his tracks after he hammered yesterday. I also think he's trying to fish for roles, which I don't find in the interest of the town. Rishi, I'm getting scum vibes from him and camn I get the feeling that she wants everyone to like her, and not find her suspicious.

[charter]

Ugh, to elaborate on why I'm suspicious of camn and Porkens. Both seem to be quite worried that they had a hand in lynching a townie. I didn't think stormer was scum, but that doesn't mean that his lynch was a bad one. They seem to be overly concerned with how they look because of it.

[charter]

And the next day someone would go "Ohh NO WHY DID YOU HAMMER" and the cycle would repeat.

Yeah, not going to bite.

[charter]

Sorry I'm not posting. People are making monster posts responding to every single comment and I just don't have the stamina to keep going through them.
This also goes in order of posts from about four or five pages ago.

@Spyrex, I'm not going to argue Food's claim anymore, I simply disagree. Informing the majority also further informs the minority as well, which I hesitate to do. Obviously it's unavoidable, but limiting how much you tell scum is useful.

Why are you getting scum vibes from Rishi?

That's why they're vibes, it's not anything solid.

Why, inherently, is wanting everyone to like you scummy?

Because I feel scum have more reason to want everyone to like them.

if a wagon formed on you I'd hammer you so fast it'd make the Porkens hammer look like it was in slow motion.

Yeah, you best hope I don't get to L-1 then if you plan on making it far in this game.

This morning, and moreso now, I suspect that Camn and KmD are scumbuddies who are playfighting. Especially since the whole, two-way, "Don't tie my alignment to his/her's."

Porkens is scum, believe me or don't but this right here is him knowing the two are not connected in (scum) alignment. I'm not trying to convince anyone that Porkens is scum (with this point) so save your breath from saying I'm OMGUSing or using craplogic.

##unvote, ##vote porkens

On a related note, a question to everybody who isn't Kmd: Does anybody else get the feeling Kmd is padding a lot of his posts with obvious, repetitious and/or unnecessary statements, replies and questions?

Yes, they are too long. However, you are strawmanning here. Long posts don't make you scum.

You defended me when I was acting really scummy on day 1.

I felt you were acting unhelpful, but I didn't (and still don't) see any scum motives behind what you did day one. I felt you would be an obvious mislynch day one and didn't want to go that route.

And this thing...

Ugh, to elaborate on why I'm suspicious of camn and Porkens. Both seem to be quite worried that they had a hand in lynching a townie. I didn't think stormer was scum, but that doesn't mean that his lynch was a bad one. They seem to be overly concerned with how they look because of it.

I don't really see Camn or Porkens being worried about lynching stormer.
Where did you get that?

The fact that porkens and camn said more than "I wanted him lynched, I felt he was scum" makes me think they overreacted. I don't generally see townies care at all about a mislynch they're on. Overly concerned was the wrong term.

I'm now thinking rishi is town. Scum are Porkens, nameless, camn in that order.

My repost of my case against nameless to come shortly.

[charter]

It may be too soon to judge, but if this trend continues I'd consider Kmd highly suspect as scum attempting to remain active without actually contributing.

Setting himself up to be on Kmd's wagon if it becomes popular.

It was the first wagon I could get to three votes.

FOS: Charter

Mindlessly joining any bandwagon that comes along doesn't help without addressing specific issues, and the threat of lynching is meaningless if you don't really suspect them.

Portraying me as trying to get a fast lynch in, when I was just pushing the first bandwagon I could a little bit higher than the rest to spur discussion.

Stormer is 'obvscum', but if he gets quick lynched when we still have plenty of D1 left to gather information on others I, for one, will be a little bit annoyed even if he IS newbie scum. (Alternatively, stormer is newbie cop 'cunningly' diverting the scum's attention elsewhere. Stormer, don't reply to that.)

...

Now Watching Suspiciously: Spyrex. All you've done thus far is echo things other people have brought up (ie. Rishi and stormer wagon) or focus overly much on OOT discussion.

Setting himself up to be on the Spyrex and Stormer wagons. We're up to four people he suspects now.

#94 by stef could easily be considered unnecessary given I'd asked the same question and (more lightheartedly) commented on the same refusal in the previous post.

Kind of directing unwarrented (in my opinion) suspicion at stef.

Yikes, stormer is scaring me. But would scum really be this obvious?

Hmm, Rishi is attracting my suspicion. But would a scum partner really use such blatant WIFOM?

(Yes. Yes, they would.)

He's setting himself up to hop on the Rishi wagon. This is the fourth person he's done this to.

Also, attention seems to have moved casually away from stormer in this last page without any further defence by him. This may be indicative that stormer actually IS scum ... if he were merely clueless innocent, I would have expected the scum to be pushing harder for his lynch than has been done. However, if stormer is scum, it would go some way as to explaining why we're suddenly arguing again over an older issue.

Playing both sides of the stormer issue, so he's ready to switch to whichever gains favor.

Theory (ie. gut-tell): Either Kmd and Steff are both poorly thinking innocents or they are both scum heavily bussing each other with whatever they can think of. Somehow I can't quite get my head around the fact that either of them could be entirely in the right ...

Stef has been officially upgraded to possible scum. The total count is six now (stormer, Rishi, stef, spyrex, charter, and Kmd). Could be seven, he could have suspected camn, but I might have missed it under everyone else.

Regarding melikefood, his last post has changed my opinion of him; at first I suspected he was scum and was preparing to push for his lynch, maybe a week before deadline, if nothing else took - now, however, I am forced to assume melikefood is a troll. Or a goddamn jester.

I must have missed where he first started suspecting Food (I didn't, he only mentions Food in passing really). Regardless, it looks like he still does, that's number seven.

Melikesfood and Stormer need to die. And they're probably scum too.
Kmd and Malyss, as of now, are most likely to be scum.
Charter needs to start contributing, and may well be lurker scum.

## Vote: melikesfood

Dang, he saved me the trouble of finding all those posts. I don't think you realize there aren't five scum in a mini.

I wanted to do this a while back, but I couldn't very well pressure Rishi to post something if I had. My reasons - He constantly makes little posts saying how he suspects someone when they're coming under a little suspicion. He tries to find out which way the wind is blowing constantly (aka. wishy washy on his stances. hello camn). Has managed to name five people as almost definitive scum, I'd agree with maybe one of those assessments at most. Despite naming all these as scum, he also has some posts where he can go back tomorrow after a mislynch, and quote saying how he wasn't sure they were scum. He's being very quick to jump on people, and is being opportunistic.

##unvote Rishi, ##vote nameless

Along with this comes suspicion towards Drake and Porkens, because you are the two that he didn't suspect.

[charter]

You're twisting everything I say to make me look bad. The sad part is I actually think you think you're on to something. I can tell you that you're horribly wrong in almost your entire read of this game, but that probably won't help matters.

If you're just going to do this, I'll stop responding to anything you direct at me. You clearly think you're the cleverest one here, but you're not, please stop being so arrogant.

I told you, that's cronological. I said I had scum vibes on rishi, what, six pages ago? On the last page he had a post that makes me think he's town.

[charter]

SO your case on Nameless is the fact that, on Day 1, he spread a lot of suspicion around? (though I wish YOU would sum it up...)

And your case on Porkens is.......?

You of all people should know that when I quote massive posts of my cases it is not indictitive of me being scum. The summary is that he suspects people after they say something questionable without regard of thinking if they said it because they are scum, or they are town and just aren't thinking. As scum, you have to jump on townies when they make mistakes, and I think that that's all he's doing.

Porken's saying that you and kmd are scum putting up a huge facade is the wildest and most untrue thing I've seen said this whole game. However, I can see how most people might buy in to it (except you and kmd). Also, I'm going back to Nameless's suspecting everyone but porkens and drake. I still think Nameless is scum, and I still think porkens was omitted for a reason (because they are scumbuddies). Porken's quickhammer was not protown.

I'm onto something but horribly wrong in my entire read of the game? What am I wrong on and more importantly.. WHY do you think so?

You know I cant answer this right now.

I like to look at the A, B, C leading to D. I will fight about points of the logic because, really, twisting logic or not having it are excellent slide-by tools for scum.

This is why I took such umbrage with "The Gambit" KMD did - I think he's smart enough to know better, but he's still pushing it as solid logic.

This is why I'm doing this with you too - I've asked for a solid formulated case on Nameless when you had it there (so we could discuss it) and you FINALLY gave it...after you voted for Porkens. See why its not making sense to me?

I think KMD's 'gambit' while flawed, has some merit. I don't think it's enough to tunnel in on camn on, but I don't think it's a point in camn's favor either.
My case on Nameless came from day one. I obviously still think it holds true. However, as I've said, I believe porkens' kmd-camn statement is the scummiest thing said this game.

I have to go now, but will respond to the rest of stuff when I get back.

[charter]

This is why I'm doing this with you too - I've asked for a solid formulated case on Nameless when you had it there (so we could discuss it) and you FINALLY gave it...after you voted for Porkens. See why its not making sense to me?

The post where I requoted it was my first post in this game in pages. I told you already, it took so long because this game has really put me off. I gave you the case because you asked, and I voted porkens because I think he's scum. I don't understand what doesn't make sense to you.

I told you, that's cronological. I said I had scum vibes on rishi, what, six pages ago? On the last page he had a post that makes me think he's town.

What post and why? Explain these statements, please.

Post 485. I also don't understand what there is to explain and why you're so interested in my thoughts on Rishi. I had gotten scum vibes from Rishi a while ago, and that post cleared them up. I think that it was a post made by a townie (uninfor. maj.), not scum.

Yes, they are too long. However, you are strawmanning here. Long posts don't make you scum.

Length isn't the problem, it's the comparatively minimal content within it that's somewhat scummy and moreso annoying with Kmd's posts.

So how is it scummy to make long posts with a poor content/useless fluff ratio?

Scum are Porkens, nameless, camn in that order.

I like that after your long and unsuccessful campaign to have me lynched you finally shift your vote to someone else on the basis of an 'argument' that you admit isn't convincing anyone. Good luck with that.

A campaign? I didn't keep hounding you over trivialities, but made my case, no one else thought it had merit, which is fine. I'm not about to go and make up reasons you're scum to try and win them over.

Also, no need to take things not even directed at you nameless and try and turn them into attacks against me. It's not going to work.

Porkens quickhammer was not protown. However, it also wasn't anti-town. It was null. 100% null.

False, what if stormer was a cop or doc? It is most definately not a null tell. I'm not going to argue this either, if you don't see this it's clearly a matter of opinion of which neither of us will budge.

But, why does this get me. Lets look at it.
- You're accusing nameless of being scum and spreading suspicion around.
- You're voting for Porkens saying that kmd and camn are putting up a huge facade.
- You're saying nameless suspected everyone but Porkens and Drake.

(Aside from none of these being scumtells to me)...
I have done EVERY one of the above. I was the one who first brought up the kmd-camn business as a scum ploy. I made it very clear day one that I suspected everyone but, essentially, Porkens, Drake and Nameless. I put suspicion on every player in this game.

Moreso, I've been far more vocal about it.

I'm not just looking for scumtells and immediately assuming that person is scum. I've seen scumtells from everyone in this game (myself easily included) but that doesn't make them scum. I already told you that I look for which actions benefit scum and which do not. I then base my suspicions off of who is doing the scummy actions that benefit scum. I think it's fairly obvious that I think that you're not doing much in this game that benefits scum and nameless and porkens are.

So, Why Porkens or Nameless and not me? Its not adding up and, honestly, it really makes it feel like you're not even trying to hunt.

I think they are scum and you are not. Their actions are different than yours. If you actually think that, I'm sorry, but once again, you are wrong.

I think that if you actually thought Nameless was scum, you would ride his a$$ at every opportunity. you would twist everything HE says into making him look bad. But no, this game you are almost being....nice! And I don't like it. It is suspicious to me. You are going WAY too easy on him AND porkens to convince me you actually think they are scum, which makes me think you know who the scum actually are... ergo, you are scum.

If I played the exact same in every game I'd be a pretty poor mafia player. I've already explained, but here it is again. This game with it's massive posts puts me off and I just don't put as much effort into it as I have with others.
Also, your 'I'm not twisting what they say to make them look bad so I must be scum' is scumlogic.

Charter, clarification please?

One quickhammer is bad. Two is unforgivable.

[charter]

No. I'm not answering it today.

I didn't list another reason when I voted you, but if you want one it goes back to Nameless's suspicion spreading and leaving you out of it.

[charter]

The first part of that directed at spyrex and the second part at porkens.

[charter]

Porkens, you aren't even trying to read what I say. You don't even respond to what I say. All you do is make up crap that you think people will believe.

Speaking of cases, where is yours on me porkens? Oh you don't have one? That's convenient.

[charter]

You gave a case on Nameless and nothing really on Porkens -- in fact, some of it as you have said is the connection you see between Nameless and Porkens. Yet you vote Porkens over Nameless.

Why would doing this make me scum? Hint, it doesn't.

Why am I interested? Because I think there's a decent chance you are both scum together. The fact that you'd cite 485 (where he accuses me of tunnel visioning) as the pro-town post is just flabbergasting, honestly.

You are tunneling so bad it's not even funny. How many people are we up to that am I scum with now? Seriously, you're doing the same thing as Nameless where you're finding more scum than there are. Guess what the explanations is, they aren't all scum.

Really?

It's unhelpful, but I don't see any scum motive behind posting obvious fluff. Perhaps if that's all kmd was doing, but it's not. The explanation I was given as to why you guys think it's scummy the first time around was crap as well.

Pressure coming on, not claiming. In fact, he mostly lurked or came out with nothing. I see nothing wrong with moving on versus stalling the game. If he was the cop or doc I'd have been pissed - because having power role != playing like a crazy person.

This is all crap too. You're assuming nothing happened to him in real life, he didn't also find this game a drag, a million other things. Just because you have a power role doesn't mean you have to play cautiously. Having a power role doesn't affect your play.

Again, the actions you have cited as your case on both of the above have also been done by me. I do not understand how the same set of actions makes me town and them not. In fact, the self-same actions are part of the reason I think THEY are town as well as me.

Of course they are going to buddy up to you. You're also going to keep making it through the night. Night after night, because you are wrong and you have tunneled in on the wrong people.

As for the rest of your post, you are being a complete fool.

[charter]

Ok, charter, I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say then; honestly.

This is what I'm talking about:

Connections

Porken's saying that you and kmd are scum putting up a huge facade is the wildest and most untrue thing I've seen said this whole game. However, I can see how most people might buy in to it (except you and kmd).

I read this as 'trying to identify a connection between KMD and Camn is scummy.'

You read wrong, it was what I said. The theory that camn and kmd are scumbuddies putting on a huge show is completely ridiculous.

But in the same post:

Also, I'm going back to Nameless's suspecting everyone but porkens and drake. I still think Nameless is scum, and I still think porkens was omitted for a reason (because they are scumbuddies). Porken's quickhammer was not protown.

I read this as 'Porkens and Drake are connected.'

Once again, you're not reading what I'm saying, you're reading what you want to read. I made a connection between nameless and porkens, and I made a connection between nameless and drake. I didn't make any assumptions between drake and porkens. The fact that you are now suggesting that makes me oh so much happier with my vote.

Also;

Porkens is scum, believe me or don't but

this right here is him knowing the two are not connected in (scum) alignment.

I believe this was in response to me saying "I think at least one of KMD or Camn is scum."

This is ridiculous

I bolded so someone might read this. Porkens is now just making up crap out of nothing. IF YOU HAD READ MY POST THAT YOU QUOTED, YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN ONE LINE UP WHERE IT WAS YOUR CAMN-KMD SCUMBUDDY SHOW THEORY THAT IT WAS IN RESPONSE TO. I don't recall you ever saying at least one of kmd-camn is scum, you've always had them together. Seriously people, Porkens is scum trying to change his story because he's under suspicion.

How does that give you the idea that I

know

they are

not

connected?

Because no townie would ever put forth such a preposterous theory.

While we are at it; I guess I really don't get this next one, either:

I'm not trying to convince anyone that Porkens is scum (with this point) so save your breath from saying I'm OMGUSing or using craplogic.

So...I don't know man. Are you just really frustrated with the game? This one seems to be a 'giving up' post.

Stop trying to tell me what my posts are. If I was giving up I'd just get replaced. I realized that others might not see how scummy your kmd-camn idea is and might not agree with it. So what do I do? I look for other stuff that they will agree with.

1.

With the one hand you are drawing a line from Nameless to myself while, with the other hand, you are demonizing me for doing the same thing with KmD and Camn.

No, your putting forth the idea that kmd and camn are scum putting on a show is what I'm "demonizing" you for. The fact that both you and Nameless got so worked up about it, and then attacked me for 'doing the same thing' when it's clearly a different scenario reaffirms that I'm right.

2.

You're happy to tell people they are wrong, but don't want/can't explain why.

Can't, which I've already said, so why do you keep pushing it?

3.

Rather than discuss your points, when questioned, you are overly defensive and tell people "OMFG YOUR NOT EVEN READING."

I try not to even acknowledge crap cases put out against me, however, I see I'm fairly close to being lynched, so I might have to start shooting them down.

Trust me, I am reading your posts, and I want to understand what you mean. I'm not attacking you for crap logic; I don't understand what logic you are using.

Then start reading what I actually write instead of what you want to read.

Good work with your quoting me out of context and adding your personal timestamp to my posts as well. I suggest if anyone else is going to read anything porken's writes, go back and check to make sure he's telling the full story, I doubt he is. As he isn't in this case as well.

[charter]

You people are such freaking idiots. Stef or Rishi or someone else could come by and accidently hammer.

I'm a mason, kmd is my buddy. We're both mod confirmed mafioso's (uninformed majority).

I seriously can't believe it got this far.

M

y Yankees are my team.

A

nyone who attacks them attacks me.

S

orry if this comes off as rude.

O

nly opinions...

N

ow let's play some mafia.

C

amn has already earned my joke vote.

H

ow?

A

nti-Yankee comments contributed of course.

R

andom confusion started it though.

T

own being bad???

E

vil confusing setup.

R

andom vote is staying until something actually happens.

Mason Charter

Seriously, unvote now before someone hammers, and I will commence explaining to spyrex why he is so very wrong and maybe you all should actually try and find scum instead of follow them like sheep.

[charter]

Apologies, but I was really frustrated that myself or kmd picked up enough mafioso's voting us that we actually had to claim today. I felt like if we both lived to tomorrow, we could massclaim and easily win, but that's not going to happen anymore.

That's how I know porken's camn-kmd thing is so horribly wrong, that's why if it was an endgame with me, kmd, and porkens, I'd obviously vote porkens, that's why if you quickhammered me or kmd, you'd be lynched without mercy. That's why me and kmd have agreed without elaborating and why we've never even considered looking at the other.

You're wrong spyrex because two of your top three suspects are town and I've known it the whole game. That's why I just kept saying you're wrong, but I couldn't explain it without giving myself away. I don't think KMD's gambit can tell us much, but I know the reason he did it was to catch scum, so I at least have faith in his analysis of it (which is the main reason camn has been my backburner suspect most of the game). You kept pushing why I knew you were wrong, obviously I had some extra knowledge everyone else didn't, but you just pushed harder, until now, where me and kmd's roles are essentially worthless now. You have completely tunneled in on me and kmd and it has blinded you to listening to our arguments, which are actually pretty good.

Me and kmd didn't really have a chance to talk much N1 (and no time pregame) but he told me about his breadcrumb post, asked if I had his alignment mod confirmed too, said he was pretty sure stormer was town (the reason he was questioning those one it), his three scum night one were camn, nameless, and spyrex.

Any more questions or elaborations now that any hope of my role being useful is gone?

[charter]

No, that's the idea that scum would want to propose to the rest of the town in case they aren't sure how masons claim. If I claimed mason, that's the same as not claiming anything and the town would go right on and lynch a power role. Actually, I'm done arguing with you porkens. You've either lost your grip on reality (dreaming up a cult from masons) or are scum, and arguing with you is as useful as trying to eat a school bus. It's scum.

If I claimed as porken's suggested, I'd be lynched easily. He suggests the most half assed claim I've ever seen. The reason I presented my claim so strongly and swiftly is because I A) didn't need time to make anything up B) am telling the truth so I actually have lots of evidence and C) wanted to make sure I'm believed and force scum to NK us.

[charter]

Oh, also, we can't be a cult because kmd's breadcrumb day one, kind of disproves the recruiting the other one N1 part of a cult. So don't listen to Porkens' theories.

[charter]

Also, If you are town (so not you porkens) you should at least keep me and kmd safe from a speedlynch (as porkens has already shown he's trigger happy). If you all actually have to lynch one of us to prove it (idiotic as scum will then NK the other) at least don't do it speedily. There's still a week left before deadline, of which Porkens is clearly the best choice.

[charter]

So you admit that your own theory is dreamed up and we are telling the truth then porkens?

[charter]

Besides the fact that there's no way of balancing a cult in a mini, short of handing out Jesus like roles, it's not true because what if I actually was scum, then he wouldn't recruit me. Plus, why on earth would you have chosen your recruitee that early in day one?

The theory is bogus, end of story.

[charter]

Oh, and for those who say I was unclear about stormer, I have the following statement for you:

I AM 100% AGAINST A LYNCH OF CHARTER FOR ANY REASON. HE IS NOT SCUM (MINORITY) AND SHOULD NOT BE LYNCHED. I THINK THAT ANYONE VOTING HIM SHOULD UNVOTE NOW. I WOULD BE AGAINST ANY HAMMER OR VOTE OF ANY KIND ON CHARTER.

Same thing, but with Kmd.

[charter]

@Spyrex, I completely see how you could have thought of me as scum. I saw it the whole time, but other than just repeating, "you're wrong spyrex", I had no way of getting you off my back. It obviously isn't your fault either. I didn't even try and act not scummy. Two reasons. First, I had a power role, so generally if you attract some (but not the most) attention during the day, you won't get lynched, and you certainly won't get NK'ed. Second, it was easy to act scummy, because I knew from the getgo another persons role and alignment, same as scum. However, I believe it will be easy to tell that we are in fact masons if anyone were to read through the game. There is no FoS's, no suggesting the other might be suspicious, no questioning suspicious things the other has done. None of scum distancing or bussing.

Why do you not think Porkens is scum? He didn't even wait or want to discuss our claim. He explains it by a wild cult theory (it is wild, see how often cults are used in a 12 person game, I don't even know if it's ever happened).

I keep saying you're different even though you are doing the same stuff as porkens and nameless because I don't just see a scumtell and go 'OMG scum' I interpret it and disect it. Your play is telling me you aren't scum, while there's is. Porkens has now lost any hope of me thinking he's not scum

However, both of you have came off as pro-Rishi. Is this a byproduct of you being masons and sharing opinions or?

We think other people are scum, Rishi isn't one of those, but we don't think he's even close to a definate townie either. Me and KMD are the only masons, Rishi isn't one of us.

Hey, looks like I was right about Nameless as well. All of your scumtells are explained away by the fact that I interpret and think about things before I act on them.

I want to know from Charter (so KMD don't answer) what they exactly discussed. So no excuses. Just a summary of what you discussed.

I already did at the bottom of 580. Are you sure you didn't switch us and want KMD's?

[charter]

I mean with anyone besides me and KMD. That's what a discussion is, it involves everyone. You immediately assumed we are lying (although, you kind of have to being scum and whatnot) and explain it by another crackpot theory.

MOD, if there were cultists in this game, do they get to talk at night?

If LG says no, then Porkens is lying scum and should be lynched, if LG says yes, Porkens is scum and should be lynched. If LG says no comment, see if LG says yes.

I cannot recall. I AM NOT A CROOK!

[charter]

No one was on, charter, who was I going to talk to?

You must admit that it was unnecessary to out KMD when you claimed, do you not see how that would have been better? I know at least KMD does; he layed it out perfectly in one of his posts last night.

How have I

lied

? I didn't have the benefit of pre-knowledge when I started suspecting/talking about KMD and being wrong isn't scummy. You're push against me, at this point, is simple OMGUS. Take another look at your list of suspects. I may have been the most vocal, but see if you can find something substantial.

Having slept on it, I agree that this claim (as badly done as it was) is too bold for a scum-pair to make at this point in the game.

And you are right; a cult would be overpowered in a 12 person game (where I come from, masons can recruit, and I always forget they don't here.)

So,

##unvote

Now, as I said before; I thought either KMD or Camn were scum.

##vote: Camn

Oh my god. Here is the changing story. Here it is. He's just completely flipped on everything and now he's going towards the person attracting the most suspicion camn. I haven't been convinced of camn this whole game, the only thing driving my suspicions was Kmd was so sure. However, I am positive Porkens is scum.

Dont let him get away with this story changing.

Sigh. This is one of those many "if you werent masons and therefore not the right lynch today I'd power hammer". You asked the mod a question that of COURSE he couldn't answer and setup a "regardless of the answer, lynch Porkens". That is not helpful. Please dont do it.

I know, I also knew LG wouldn't give any hint of anything away. However, the whole point is now moot because Porkens has flip flopped again and is going after the next easiest lynch target, camn.
If we ever claim to have someone else with us, go ahead and lynch me, hell, I'll even vote myself.

Kmd- Porkens is definate scum, and Nameless is almost definate scum. I'd switch back to porkens. He's probably also easier to get lynched, and once he flips scum, nameless won't be able to weasel his way out.

[charter]

Oh my god. Here is the changing story. Here it is. He's just completely flipped on everything and now he's going towards the person attracting the most suspicion camn. I haven't been convinced of camn this whole game, the only thing driving my suspicions was Kmd was so sure. However, I am positive Porkens is scum. Dont let him get away with this story changing.

Charter, I imagine you jumping up and down, waving your arms around like an octopus, and getting red in the face when you post things like this. Honestly; I've been consistent, my actions have had explanations, and I'm allowed to change my mind, ISN'T THAT WHY YOU CLAIMED? TO GET ME TO CHANGE MY MIND?

This is just more lies. You've been consistent? Are you serious? You were "convinced" me and kmd were scum or cultists or whatever, then you saw that neither of us will be lynched today and you have now changed to believing our claim. You're allowed to change your mind, it's the fact that you do it so as to be going with the crowd that is scummy.

And yes, that was me saying there won't be a third mason ever.

[charter]

In case anyone (not porkens or nameless) doesn't see it, let me know, but there are a bunch of twisting of facts that occurred in each of porkens and nameless's last posts. I am now convinced both of them are scum with how they have absolutely blown up after our mason claim.

[charter]

In case anyone (not porkens or nameless) doesn't see it, let me know,

I see you're once again attempting to limit who is allowed to call you out for things.

Porkens already summed it up. I'm convinced you and him are scum. Nothing is going to change my mind, so all arguing with you and him is going to be town vs scum and won't go anywhere.

[charter]

Nothing is going to change my mind

This? This is what tunnel vision

is

.

And? It's also me being confronted with a mountain of evidence against you and Porkens, one that you won't be able to overcome. Period.

c) I think Stef and Zazie have been skating along WAY too easily here.

Agree

IMO, at least one of them is scum.

Maybe

Probably Both.

As that doesn't leave room for porkens and nameless, disagree.

Also, I think at least one of Nameless and Rishi is scum.

Nameless.

Camn, why are you not sold on porkens? How do you ignore his recent flopping like a fish out of water? His ridiculous theories to begin with? His lies and word twistings?

Can we get a votecount and prods LG?

Not fair that scum aren't being lynched because people aren't here.

[charter]

##unvote, ##vote Nameless

[charter]

@Stef, I'd argue that my defending kmd is explained away as well.

ALSO, OH MY GOD, HOW HAS NO ONE NOTICED THIS. Find all posts by Porkens, start with oldest first. Go from the first one to the hammer. Tell me how many times HE EVEN MENTIONS stormer before he hammers him. If you're lazy (like me) I'll save you the trouble. ONE TIME, in his replacing in post. How can you call his hammer anything but scum quickhammering?

[charter]

Stef's last post is filled with such horrible logic it is painful to read. Kmd pointed out some of it already. Here's some more.

@charter:

How can you call his hammer anything but scum quickhammering?

I can. I would have done the same if i were convinced i was doing the right thing. This does not clear him and, as i said, i still don't like his hammer but it's not a good enough clue to tell us if he is scum or not imho.

What? How can you "would have done the same" and "still don't like his hammer"? Besides not making any sense, I note your defending Porkens when there should be ABSOLUTELY no reason to. He certainly hasn't done anything pro town this game.

1. We decide to believe for now that KMD and Charter are really masons.
We decide to lynch some1 else.

a.If that person turns out town we get a -2 majority and end up in a lylo ( if i'm not mistaken ? ) After that night we still got no idea if KMD and Charter are actually town or scum playing us.

You assume one of us isn't NK'ed, which I honestly can't see any possible way that doesnt happen.

b.If that person turns out mafia we get a -1 minority -1 majority and we're kinda better off knowing that there's one less goon while on the other hand we still don't know what's up with KMD and Charter since they can play their card easily and have an apparently clear and innocent reason to push the wagon against scum while possibly bussing to boost their credibility and reinforce their claim. This is a dangerous scenario witch i would very much preffere to avoid because it would be anti-majority imho.

How would us lynching mafia today clear us in any way?

2. We decide to believe that KMD/Charter are a good lynch option and we decide to lynch let's say Charter ( it can be KMD.. chose kmd randomly )

a. Charter turns majority. Minority kills another majority player and we end up in a possible lylo where we know that KMD is obvinnocent and our list of suspects narrows down considerably and bringing some new leads for us.

You won't have a confirmed innocent tomorrow. It's not going to happen.

Bottomline

The way i see it.. the best way is to lynch either Charter or KMD. This way we get the mystery out of the way and we get more clarification because the current confusion and speculating if their claims are true or not ( thing we cannot prove ) is hurting the majority.

No. Wrong.

Worst case scenario.. we end up in a lylo knowing we got one person we can trust to be majority and we don't loose any real PR since they can't do more than claim their roles. Best case scenario one of them turns scum giving is -2 scum in the game.

Your best case scenario is wrong, and your worst case scenario is wrong.

On the otherhand the worst case scenario when we're not lynching one of them is: We could lynch a PR we can use or a townie and we lose one more witch can be a useful PR or townie with the NK and we end up in D3 without getting any confirmation about Charter/KMD's roles and we could find ourselves in a lylo scenario.

IF NO ONE QUICKHAMMERS, YOU DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT LYNCHING A POWER ROLE. IS THIS NOT OBVIOUS? Just make sure porkens is already voting for them.

[charter]

But now you see where I'm coming from with practically all my points, which does weaken your case substantially.

[charter]

LETS NOT MASSCLAIM

There is Nameless flip flopping too as he's seen that me and Kmd aren't a good lynch for today.

[charter]

It was in your last post. However, you don't just decide that it's time to massclaim and then do it. I still think you're scum trying to out more power so that you can kill them off tonight and WIFOM it up tomorrow when me and Kmd are alive.

I think it will be a terrible idea to massclaim today, everyone else's opinion?

[charter]

No, your whole post is you giving up your crusade to get me or Kmd lynched by you switching your vote to Rishi, which is also bad, because there's (from what I gather) clearly not enough support to get him lynched today. But then again, you're scum, so we need to be lynching you.

[charter]

Should be a Hoot.

For those of you just tuning in; Charter asked us for a massclaim. So far:

Nameless has claimed vanilla mafioso.
SpyreX has claimed vanilla mafioso.
Porkens has claimed mafioso cop.

Your turn.

NO. YOU LIE AGAIN PORKENS. YOU ARE TERRIBLE AT IT. I VERY DISTINCTLY SAID DO NOT MASSCLAIM.
Porkens, why on earth would you claim cop when there is no reason to? Oh, you're scum, right.

THANK YOU RISHI (though I wish you would have voted Porkens and kept your mouth shut so you might live another night).

HERE IS HOW TODAY GOES.

WE LYNCH PORKENS, IF HE FLIPS MAFIOSO, WE LYNCH RISHI THE NEXT DAY AND NAMELESS AND SPYREX CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT. IF PORKENS TURNS OUT TOWN, OR WHATEVER THE NON-MAFIOSO ALIGNMENT IS, WE THEN LISTEN TO KMD AND CHARTER. Porkens is so blatently scum it's not even funny. Other than the mountain of evidence I've already given against him, someone give me ONE SINGLE reason Porkens would try and attract Food's Roleblock as cop, AND THEN ASK IF HE GOT BLOCKED. HE SHOULD HAVE ALREADY KNOWN HE DID BECAUSE HE DIDNT GET A RESULT. HIS STORY CHANGES SO MUCH, HE IS SCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, Rishi's claim makes no sense. Give me one reason that Rishi, as scum, would counter Porkens, who would then theoretically be town (theoretical as Porkens is scum).

Sorry, but I feel like shouting it louder makes it more true. I know it doesn't, but I have actual valid points in there.

Camn, if we do not lynch a claimed cop today, scum have no choice but to leave them both alive and put us in this exact same spot tomorrow. Killing the real cop is idiotic as it confirms the other claimed cop to be scum. The lynch today needs to be either Porkens or Rishi, and it most definately needs to be Porkens.

[charter]

Oh, forgot I was voting Nameless.

##unvote, ##vote Porkens

[charter]

Porkens, explain why you had to ask if you were blocked if you were cop.

[charter]

ALSO, why Porkens is clearly lying, he didn't even reveal who he tried to investigate. His claim was half assed, and it's false.

[charter]

PORKENS, EXPLAIN WHY YOU HAD TO ASK IF YOU WERE ROLEBLOCKED IF YOU ARE COP.
I'm not going to let you ignore this.

[charter]

That is L-1 Stef. Kmd, we are waiting on you!

[charter]

##vote Rishi

[charter]

Nameless, you should prolly bus your partner in this situation.

[charter]

I think it's nameless, and either camn or stef.

[charter]

vote no lynch

Just to get it down to five, maybe force scum to NK one of me or Kmd.

[charter]

No lynch without spending much time discussing is the way to go here. All we're doing is letting scum figure out who to NK by stating all our suspicions.

Zaz, claim.

[charter]

If we're going to no lynch, we're NOT going to spend lots of time discussing everything. If you want to spend lots of time discussing and talking, then no lynch is pointless. It only makes sense if you DONT list all your suspicions and thoughts on players. This will tell scum who to keep alive.

[charter]

##vote no lynch

Pound signs and such...

[charter]

Did you bother reading Kmd's post showing how mathematically it makes a lot of sense. I suppose you talking a bunch doesn't matter, because you're scum.

[charter]

Camn, if you agree with no lynch, vote it and stop posting.

[charter]

I already said, it gives scum information on what everyone's thinking. From the massclaim, none of us need any information going into tonight, only they do. Hence, there's no benefit in discussing for the town, but there is for scum.

[charter]

Scum will have plenty of time to slip up tomorrow.

[charter]

... I have just had an idea. Logically I'm aware the idea is very poor and risky play, but what has logic done for me thus far? Ha.

## Vote: No lynch

Drake. Porkens. Melikefood. SpyreX. Nameless.
All of these people were majority. All of these people suspected Charter. If by tomorrow all of these people are dead by scum hands stop and think about it. Our evidence and arguments are still here. Do not let yourself be WIFOMed out of everything that matters.

More blatent lies. I very clearly said I thought Food and Spy were town. Not even a good try.

Here is another flip flop by nameless once he's realized that he can't blatantly push anti-town ideas and get away with it.

[charter]

Before I say anything, claim Zazier.

[charter]

No, I will shoot down whatever terrible logic he has posted tonight when I get a chance to catch up in this game.

[charter]

(I try to avoid eye bleeding walls of text whenever possible. This will be one of those times)

@all of you who voted the no-lynch. Why did you rush into it? I think that is just odd. Now the game is in it's last day. Since you voted no-lynch now it's easier for the scumpair to finish. If yesterday they needed two votes to kill a majority member now they only need one vote to hammer and win. Considering Charter and KMD pushed the most for the No-Lynch they would be my prime suspects right now.

I already explained this yesterday. We either no lynch and do it fast and not say anything, or we lynch yesterday in MYLO. I wanted to no lynch, and nobody seemed to object. You don't drag it out because you will let scum know exactly where you stand and whether to keep you alive or not. Town doesn't need to know where other townies stand, because they don't know who is a townie! Hence, they can't base any decisions off what the rest of the town says. WIFOM, but I'm betting Camn got killed because she didn't keep her mouth shut and said she believed me and Kmd.

Zazier's claim was terrible. I'll be taking that in to consideration.

Response to Nameless's case...
I was not actively lurking. I had my vote on someone and stated the reasons for it. I was actively participating. So what if they aren't my own?

Bandwagoning to get information is not poor play. Show me how it would be scummy, since you're attacking me with that. Or save your time, because it's not scummy. The reason I was always suspicious of Rishi is that he didn't realize that town was actually mafia in this game. He knew he was scum and didn't know the flavor. I saw it in his first post. Obviously it wasn't a good reason, but it was my reason for suspecting him. I never said it because no one would buy it and it's easy to say "I forgot".

Lack of scumhunting / Contradictions

I have been scumhunting. You could put your name in this paragraph and it would ring true as well.

Seemingly arbitrary vote changing

So because I thought porkens was scummier is an arbitrary reason?

(This exchange was not related to Kmd, FYI, but started with melikefood's claim and Charters wavering opinion on Rishi)

Actually it is. It was in response to porkens' wild kmd-camn theory.

Nonsensical statements

Spy picked up that me and Kmd were connected. He assumed scum, which is why I acted so funny.

Suddenly stops contributing

I've been busy in real life. All my games have suffered. It has nothing to do with this game.

I exaggerate when I state suspicions all the time. How is that scummy? It's quite clear that I exaggerate, so it's not like it fools anybody.

I didn't read Kmd's post yet. Also, I'm not automatically going to gun for Nameless. I'm actually going to, you know, scumhunt. Go back over the game and look for connections between people and Rishi. Nameless contradicts himself with his absolute certainty that I'm scum, but no vote.

[charter]

No, you dont get it. I'm not starting out today assuming you're scum and nothing will change my mind. That's not how lylo works. I'm going to go back and reread rather than just assume.

[charter]

This will make my voting easy, either you're town and you just lost the game for us, or you're scum and just gave yourself up.

[charter]

Also, reread coming tonight. Been very busy lately.

[charter]

## vote Nameless

Honestly, I don't think I'm going to do a giant post with a case. I had you pinned day one and you've kept slipping through. If Nameless actually is a mafioso, I deserve to lose this game. For stef/Zaz, I would highly recommend going back over the first ten pages or so, Nameless makes some huge flip flops that are pretty blatent and some scummy incosistancies. He also jumps all over stormer and food when it's popular. If you want me to point out his scummy behavior for you, let me know and I will make a giant post showing it, but honestly, you will probably get a better picture rereading the whole thing.

While you're at it, look back and me and kmd and see that there is NEVER A SINGLE TIME that one of us ever stated suspicion of the other, or asked the other something that would reflect poorly on them. If you think we did that at scum and not majority, then it's probably all lost.

[charter]

Bah. I feel like everyone who was town played horribly in the game, myself included. Good game scum! Thanks for hosting LG, it turned quite interesting there around massclaim time.

[charter]

It was extremely half assed, you didn't really seem to know what you were claiming. I think there was a sample pm on the front page, but you just said mafioso, not vanilla or nothing. Generally weak claims are made by scum, partially why I believe Rishi.

[charter]

Nameless. You're looking for some set in stone proof someone is scum. Guess what, that doesn't happen unless you have some investigative roles. I play by actually looking for things that someone does that would benefit scum, not behavior labeled as scummy by MS as a whole. I do plenty of that generally accepted scummy behavior myself all the time regardless of my role, just because I do that doesn't make me scum.

There was no one on the town's side that played very well this game. It wasn't just me and you. I'd say Drake did the best, maybe Camn, but we as a whole, sucked.