Mini Normal 2170: Stuff I’m Listening To [Game Over]

[Blitzo]

are you slipping that both neighbours are town?

the neighbors are town-reading each other and high-influence slots - you really think scum doesn't shoot there and shoots Katsu of all people?

Scum have never shot in the “high influence” pool. Probably because Shea’s scum and didn’t want to be outed that way.

This makes sense.

[Blitzo]

This is also something I'm thinking about.
There's a ton of weird/weak town power but what would scum have here?

I'm actually terrible at setup resolution but I'd like to talk about it before moving forward as well.

[Blitzo]

What's your gut, blitzo?

I talked to Gamma overnight and decided that I was going to push you today.
Then Gamma did stuff that made me not so happy that is consistent with things that have been bothering me since the beginning of the game and I feel like I'm being led by the nose.

I think it's extremely likely that one of you/gamma is scum but I'm reading the terrain before I decide.

I also want to try to figure out this massclaim since this role distribution is sort of bonkers.

Basically I'm taking it slow and trying to see what's happening before I place my vote, since I think it's extremely unlikely I'm going to change my mind once I vote.

[Blitzo]

A lack of any town blocking/tracking role also makes no sense

Does it, though?
Someone walk me through the setup again because I don't get it. Again I'll admit that I'm not good at solving setups but I'd really like this spelled out for me please.

[Blitzo]

I'm actually sort of confused by that as well and would like an explanation.

[Blitzo]

Yeah that case is mediocre.

[Blitzo]

The game has slowed down. :/
Kasu should answer that question.
Alternatively shea should have a really strong mafia read right now - his unvote of bulge was extremely awkward and eeks caution that should have been there far beforehand, which is dissonant with his start of day.

[Blitzo]

I actually see his reads and I get it but I'm not sure that's enough at this stage. I feel like there needs to be way more there. Like...Dropping a bunch of names and saying "these are probably scum" is really not enough.
I'm always willing to lim NM because, honestly, who cares that's totally fine.

I haven't really decided on a third and don't know if I will today tbh.

[Blitzo]

I'm also aware of the fact that there's little to say about NM, but that's mostly NM's fault and nobody else's.
Some elaboration on pooky is in order.

[Blitzo]

Shea.

[Blitzo]

Like...Dropping a bunch of names and saying "these are probably scum" is really not enough.

lol a full POE break down of why people are mechanically locked as scum from my perspective is "dropping a bunch of names and saying these are probably scum."

Holy hell dude. Are you serious?

Yes. Saying a bunch of people are POE scum isn't really useful to the rest of us. I've got NM saying I'm scum by PoE which isn't anything either unless you want to argue that he's town for thinking it.
I'll concede that I've forgotten that you've broken down the hood though? I'll have to double check in a moment to recall your thoughts on it.

[Blitzo]

I don't really think it's that unreasonable to ask you to help me read you through the "confscum" pile.

[Blitzo]

lol
I'm sorry but you getting frustrated is hilarious.
I'm still parsing that post and looking into your past stuff to see everything tbh. I definitely recall you talking about the neighborhood some time ago but I guess I kind of figured something changed there instead of just staying the same this whole time? I mean if that's the case then that's fine but I feel like even now your read on Gamma is still evolving and I'd like to know why? Especially since he's the guy who has practically goaded me into coming after you today.

Pedit - No offense taken. I'm definitely not responding to some of your stuff fast enough.

[Blitzo]

I know it also sounds stupid but I never particularly understood why people thought kasu was town.
He's just seemed kind of "nothing" to me all game. I can't remember a single notable thing he's done and even considered him as scum at one point in the hood.

Like maybe he's mechanically cleared here but can someone sate my paranoia or something?

[Blitzo]

I also posted about this before but I still don't really know what kind of power scum would have here.
We have a gajillion town roles so surely scum must have something? I might need to venture into the wiki.

[Blitzo]

There's a number of roles scum could have. My guess would be something investigative, especially with some background-y guy like UG dead on N2.
I guess that could also be someone getting shot with low impact on the gamestate but that still seems sort of reachy.

So that's fine I guess.

[Blitzo]

Probably not.

[Blitzo]

Good question.
I actually sort of agree with shea's assessment that pooky is sort of "nothing" but I think we wound up dropping those ideas after pressuring pooky on day 3.
I also came back from that conversation far more convinced in panzer being scum (though he unfortunately flipped town.)

I guess it would be worth revisiting at some point but I'm kind of focused on something else right now.

As for the analysis of the setup - I think the standard mafia no-power setup is traitor/goon/goon. I don't think that setup makes much sense especially with all the town checking nonsense?

[Blitzo]

#2978 is directed at Gamma.
As for NL - we can do it but bulge/OWER is guaranteed to die thus we're no closer to solving anything.
Though I guess bulge dying confirms kasu which is okay either way?

It won't affect our scumpool outside of that though.

[Blitzo]

No lol in-game. I'm focused on the setup.

[Blitzo]

I'm glad NM got replaced but I think it might be too little too late at this point if he's somehow town here.

[Blitzo]

OH sick that makes my life a bunch easier

are gammo/blitzo the only ones in the hood?
was there no kill n4/do we have an explanation for that?
is bulge town?

Yes, Gamma and I are the only ones in the hood.
Bulge supposedly blocked a kill on kasu as a loyal jailkeeper.

Also I'm gunna throw a major pissy party about N_M when this game is over. Fair warning.

I might join in tbh.

Pedit - yes, I think I'm in agreement with OWER. Though I kind of feel like the setup makes sense with a loyal jailkeeper though?

[Blitzo]

im not trying to argue against the no kill theory here, im trying to get it thru to outworld that nobody targeted him.

Fair point.
Also, I think NL is definitely the best play here.
But we should still talk this out I feel.

[Blitzo]

Gamma something that hasn't been addressed is why you pushed hard to convince blitzo to push me in the hood last night when you yourself havent pushed me at all and had been calling me town as recently as yesterday.

Because he was being very loud about not being confident in anything and I was trying to give him a push forward, plus I agree on the read but didn’t want to push it myself given my charisma only seems to kick in when I’m dead wrong.

This is stinky smelly poo.

Blitzo does this jive with your understanding? You seem to have been saying that it was gamma who had the read and pushed you into pushing it. Is that true? Am I misreading that?

Not necessarily.
He was complaining at me the whole time and pushing me really hard to do stuff, going so far as to call me "the worst neighbor ever" because I wasn't pushing for reads during the night sequence.
I turned around on him to try and feel him out and he just kinda went "I'm just kinda dither about" and agreed with my shea read.

I have been suspicious of you since the start of the game but he knew that more than anyone so it was obvious was he was going for.

[Blitzo]

That third sentence was clumsy so I'm gonna try this again - his pushing me to have a read was incredibly aggressive, and when I put him on the back foot and tried to get his plans for today, they were incredibly tepid and he latched onto my shea read.
In fact that's pretty much all he's done this game is sheep my ideas? That's kind of why I feel like I'm being led by the nose and I feel like limming between you/gamma makes a lot of sense for me.

[Blitzo]

VOTE: no yeet

[Blitzo]

I think I know what's going to happen tonight and it's going to infuriate me to no end.

[Blitzo]

He says he protected kasu though...

[Blitzo]

leaving the IC alive despite the IC not really townreading him adds like, a level of credibility to his claim

Does it?

[Blitzo]

I am so not dealing with this right now.
I'll check in tomorrow.

[Blitzo]

Well we've got one between TSQ/bulge, so that's something.
Worst I'd imagine that his reasoning is the same as everyone else's - NM has been scummy and useless all game and has had terrible reads across the board. It is the most obvious observation in the world.

[Blitzo]

Blitzo I feel like you checked out of this game day 3

Not necessarily but I'm definitely not all here right now.
I'm still kinda taking my time a bit more than I usually do but even then I'm kinda burnt out - this game has been brutal.

Well we've got one between TSQ/bulge, so that's something.
Worst I'd imagine that his reasoning is the same as everyone else's - NM has been scummy and useless all game and has had terrible reads across the board. It is the most obvious observation in the world.

I mean following this logic you're going to elim NM in XyLo 100% of the time and he's going to be scum, what? 25% of the time?
no way I'm rolling over and letting y'all policy elim me into a loss.

Then be town. The onus is on you to fix that, not everyone else.

[Blitzo]

@Worst - yeah well you replaced into a scummy slot that wanted to lim me for no reason so, no, I don't really care for your frustration all that much.

Back on topic, if you're trying to solve the hood, do you have any questions for either of us or about anything that has happened in it?

[Blitzo]

how about like.. do you have any reads other than "man i want to policy yeet tw based on his pred"?

See yesterday.
I suspect Shea and Gamma for reasons already discussed.

I also have yet to hear a reason for kasu being town and am still rather cross about not having that answer. It's getting to the point where people are just saying he's town and then leaving it at that and it's driving me nuts.

There are just way too many people to suspect so I'll probably end up narrowing it down between TSQ and bulge for the sake of simplicity - Gamma is obviously anti shea though which puts me in a weird position I think.

[Blitzo]

how about like.. do you have any reads other than "man i want to policy yeet tw based on his pred"?

See yesterday.
I suspect Shea and Gamma for reasons already discussed.

I also have yet to hear a reason for kasu being town and am still rather cross about not having that answer. It's getting to the point where people are just saying he's town and then leaving it at that and it's driving me nuts.

There are just way too many people to suspect so I'll probably end up narrowing it down between TSQ and bulge for the sake of simplicity - Gamma is obviously anti shea though which puts me in a weird position I think.

i'm probs not gonna read back in a hurry - it's in my best interest to get you involved anyway.

suppose i'm allergic to scrolling back. eli5 shea & gamma as scum for me. i tend to lean shea before bulge as well but i'm working off my sense of smell. gamma is kinda in lurker null territory for me atm

Shea because his scumreads were spread too thin early on - they felt extremely spread out and a lot of his posts look like picking holes in people's arguments rather than figuring them out. It's been pretty consistent across the board.
Gamma because he's really only towny sounding on the front foot - whenever I try to put him on the defensive he shuts down and becomes impossible to talk to. He also seems to sheep every single thing I say and the few things he came up with on his own are wifomy and not smart.

Again I will note that my shea read was pretty much forced by Gamma - he was pressuring me hard in the hood to come up with something and that's just kind of all I had. It feels like I'm being led by the nose.

I will also again ask everyone in the thread - why is Kasu town?

PEDIT - Gamma that's just wifom.
Outside of the role nonsense, why is kasu town?

[Blitzo]

Kasu is town because he is playing THE EXACT SAME GAME he played last time I played with him and he was town there

HAPPY????

No.

[Blitzo]

I will concede that my read there is poorly written and mean (and uncalled for frankly) but my point is this - I think that the core of your logic rests on what I bring to the table and it has been that way all game.
If I don't have a read, or if I come up with nothing, what do you actually do?

[Blitzo]

I'm tired. I will reassess the validity of my own points in the morning.

[Blitzo]

what if
shea and bulge are bussing

I guess, but what's the point?

[Blitzo]

is it
bulge/kasu/gamma....

Is it bad that I'm starting to come around to this being the team as well?

[Blitzo]

I don't know, I've been paranoid of shea all game but when he actually sits down and talks to people or addresses things it seems like it clicks. Maybe it's just because he's town and bulge is just scum because him not protecting the IC is just awful and kasu really isn't that towny either.
Like I've been asking for a huge period of time about why kasu is town and I still don't think I've gotten a single answer. I got something on meta but that's not really that great either, especially with his whole current "bland comment and dip" strategy he's got going on right now.

I also feel like a lot of the arguments for bulge being town at this point are wifom and weak.

[Blitzo]

gammo. this is an incendiary question, but i want to be incendiary so yolo.

are you voting shea because he hurt your feelings?

lol

My thing towards Shea is essentially re-iterating the point I made @ Blitzo about how I have been driving the game a fair amount, this time as a counter to the idea that I “haven’t been pushing things” which is just super disingenuous on the macro scale of the game. I also feel like I should re-iterate that in the now, it doesn’t exactly make sense for scum!me to pump the brakes on trying to lead when so far the results are all to spec in that scenario. I would have expected Blitzo to corroborate this at some point but he’s pretty much eternally out-to-lunch when it comes to anything that would help the town. I would have formatted this like the last two posts, but experiencing a rage event horizon made me not feel like doing that anymore.

Again with the wifom - this doesn't mean anything to me dude.

Though I will admit I'm still seeing things play out before finally placing a vote. We've got seven days to make a decision.

[Blitzo]

Alright no-holds-barred time. Some of these will be direct engagements, some will just be addressing things regarding the people in question.
First up on the “hit list”, Blitzo.

Blitzo, why are you trying to paint me as the bad guy when I’ve had to drive a good amount of things in the main game and especially in the hood? I also have been playing the hood in a way that’s clearly not afraid to make moves with it, between proposing the Mason claim gambit and revealing the hood the way I did, I did not shy away from taking decisive action when it came to hood stuff. Why do I make such bold plays as scum? That just seems like a way to put a target on myself in a way that is entire unnecessary.
Now for the million-dollar question. You seem to think a Shea-bulge-Gamma team has some legitimacy. Mind sharing with the class what you said in the hood N3 that makes that worldview make no sense? Because if that was the team there’s a super-fucking-easy avenue to winning the game that you fed me on a silver platter.

You have 24 hours to engage me on this Blitzo. I won’t put a timetable on this part but I intend to cap this inquiry off when I post my thing regarding the worst.
I’m also putting out a request to not speak about anything I’m posting from this post onward unless spoken to in one of them.

This is not the team that I was proposing at any point.

[Blitzo]

gammo. this is an incendiary question, but i want to be incendiary so yolo.

are you voting shea because he hurt your feelings?

That’s part of it but I also just think he’s obvscum

@Blitzo you haven’t answered the question. You’ve still got like 16 hours, but the more you avoid it the less favorably I’ll view a wrong answer.
Also, it’s not “WIFOM”, it’s basic reason. Why make a scene about something if I’m just trying to eek by? It might get looked at favorably but it also might get me in a shit-ton of hot water.

No, that is exactly what wifom is.
I will note that I think the entirety of the argument you're presenting in that paragraph is also wifom.
This bit where you're holding your opinion as some kind of dagger over my head is humorous tbh.

[Blitzo]

ANSWER THE QUESTION!
Why does it not make sense for a gamma-bulge-Kasu team to exist?

I'm not following the question.
I think it's possible this could be a team?
I also don't think this is the question you asked initially, forgive me if I missed it.

[Blitzo]

I'm not following. Enlighten me?

[Blitzo]

No - if you have something to say, say it.

[Blitzo]

I giggled IRL.
The onus is on you here to make the point you're trying to make, not me.

[Blitzo]

[Blitzo]

What a terrible read, honestly. Just more WIFOM garbage he pulled out of his butt to patch over the fact that I'm not listening to him anymore.
Anyways.

I think I'm probably just going to vote the opposite of whatever Gamma does.

[Blitzo]

I mean he voted on limlo already.
What's he gonna do, vote bulge and somehow change my mind after the fact?

PEDIT - wowe much aggressive hurts my eyes aaaaaa.

[Blitzo]

I'm legitimately confused as to where this rage is coming from tbh.
But that's fine I suppose.

[Blitzo]

Yeah I don't really agree with that assessment at all and I'm completely worn out with this constant anger. If you don't like me, whatever, I'm beyond the point of caring.

[Blitzo]

And the rest of the question? Why is this like pulling teeth.

It's been like this with him since like day 2 tbh.

FWIW I think its pretty clear the scum team is the bulge and gamma. I'm up in the air on the third. Blitzo has pretty firmly cemented himself in my mind as town today I think, so that leaves a third of pooky/the worst/kasu.

Genuinely unsure which of those it is.

As much as I hate to draw unflipped associatives, Gamma went through hell and high water to ensure pooky wasn't limmed day 1. Most of his play that day consisted of telling me pooky was town and voting any and every other wagon that popped up.

[Blitzo]

Hrn.
I want the other three nonvoters to tell me who they want to vote here and why.

[Blitzo]

I think I know where TW stands but I can't recall what pooky/kasu think.

[Blitzo]

Oye.

[Blitzo]

OYE.

[Blitzo]

I had scum on day 1.
Lame.

[Blitzo]

Why did people think Kasu was towny? Idgi.

[Blitzo]

It was a low powered game on both sides, it's how I ran my mini normal and I think it's more interesting, especially these days when town power is so high

no one wants you here.

aw dont be like that. perhaps its a bit unfair but I'm sure there is a way to read him

Nah I agree with shea. NM did nothing and should not be applauded for doing nothing. People need to stop excusing this kind of behavior.

[Blitzo]

Also I’m not outright blacklisting Blitzo but I don’t EVER want to roll neighbors with him again. WORST. HOOD PARTNER. EVER!!!

/shrug
I don't think you're anywhere near as communicative as you think you are and I'm not the only one who saw it.
But to each their own I suppose.

[Blitzo]

So what? The neighborhood wound up being completely useless aside from pissing shea off, who was town.
Maybe a neighborhood could be useful in certain circumstances but this game definitely wasn't it.

[Blitzo]

I think the shea read might also have been the only thing we kept hidden for the most part, and the hood got us scumread at one point.
If there's something that it would have revamped about us in this game, I don't see what it would have been. I know you wanted it to be important but it just really doesn't seem like it was that tbh.

[Blitzo]

Of course if you think I'm wrong feel free to say so.

[Blitzo]

blitzo alt reveal?

Nope, sorry.