Open 90 - Trendy and Subversive C9 Mafia Wins! before 656

[sekinj]

Hey Guys! So who here is evil?

[sekinj]

poor kitty.

[sekinj]

Strife seemed to just be trying to get things moving. No one had posted in over 24 hours.

@mirth: what is the reason you are voting farside?

[sekinj]

I find your notetaking of my defense of strife worthy of note.

[sekinj]

those were in my secret notes (thanks for making me spill the beans!). I didn't realize you held me in high enough regard to be dissapointed

[sekinj]

Strife: Was you vote on retro random or serious? i thought it was serious since you said the random stuff wasn't going anywhere. But your later questioning of mirth's suspicions make me think you thougt you were being random.

[sekinj]

Fos: Az

lurking for the win

[sekinj]

Yay! page 2!!

[sekinj]

no posting for 36 hours means the game needed a kick.

qft

[sekinj]

cuase I think random voting is stuuupid.

[sekinj]

@ret: It may have been better to leave well enough alone. Afterall, if it was a random vote, one person is as good as the other. I don't beleive you intended anything by it, but you have succeeded in confusing the town.

[sekinj]

@mirth: becuase I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. I can't really see how jumping your random vote around would help you as scum. It seems like a dumb townie mistake. Right now I'm more concerned about the people who haven't posted. I don't think we can get a good read on anyone until we interact more. The stuff so far I think has been good, but not enough for me to call anyone scum yet.

[sekinj]

I do think putting pressure on people because of small mistakes is valuable, but retro's error has been explained to my satisfaction.

[sekinj]

I do think putting pressure on people because of small mistakes is valuable, but retro's error has been explained to my satisfaction.

There where would a game go if we didn't point out small "errors" or ask questions and put pressure on people after the random vote stage?

The game would go no where fast. I was AGREEING that putting pressure on people for small mistakes was GOOD. However, in the case of retro's error, I am satisfied with his answer.

[sekinj]

R...i..g...h...t... that makes sense.... not.

[sekinj]

Again, I just don't see what scum would benefit from being silly and trying to "correct" a random vote. It was just not a smart thing to try and do. I think that is all there is to it. I didn't even point out to retro when I noticed his mistake because I didn't think it mattered.

Of course if retro KEEPS making silly, random, not paying attention mistakes, I will begin to be suspicious of him. Or maybe just write him off as a bad player.

[sekinj]

@Az: not good, man. bad mistake to make. You look very scummy now.

[sekinj]

Sorry I have a lot on my mind as of late.

@ sekinj: Why do you think Retro correction isn't scummy, but Azrael001 mistake is scummy?

because retro's mistake was obvious in his first post about it. He says, "same reason, wrong name beside it" which references back to his first random vote against me. So, he was obviously still random voting, however badly he mis-read the thread and however misguided his attempt to 'correct' a random vote, he was still random voting. He then unvoted 5 minutes later because has was done with random voting as he states in Post 36.

Az on the other hand, breaks into the middle of the serious discussion with what looks like an all out attack without anything to back it up. He leaves it that way for over 24 hours, and only then comes back and says he made a mistake.

these are drastically different. I'm not saying Az is scum (which is why I haven't voted him), but I am saying his mistake was much more scummy.

[sekinj]

Az, first of all, how is calling someone protown good? You think you can write Sek off as protown? Already? On page 4? After you admit to not reading most of the thread? Wow.

true dat. Am I protown for fosing you?? is that what you are trying to say?

[sekinj]

EBWOP: that was directed at az

[sekinj]

@mirth: But retro unvoted immediately. Being anal retentive myself, I totally understand how someone would want to 'fix' something like that when they thought they were mistaken. It didn't mean anything. At this point it is being talked to death.

[sekinj]

except that I dont' want townie's lynched... true I don't know retro's alignment for sure, but his mistake does nto scream scum to me pure and simple.

@mirth and farside: why are you ignoring the Az thing? simply because he is not responding? this is not good playing on anyone's part. Retro and Az both made mistakes because of not reading properly, yet you guys are making retro look scummier because he is participating, where Az isn't looking as scummy simply because he is lurking.

We have 4 people talking about the mistakes the other 2 people made, 2 people attacking and 2 defending, that's a pretty even split so it makes me thing that it's not incredibily scummy of me to defend Retro.

[sekinj]

You don't want townies lynched? Yet you say you don't know Retro is a townie, so how can you say you don't want him lynch. No one is talking about lynching him, so where are you getting these ideas from?

well, when people vote for someone, to me that means they want him/her lynched.... and no, I dont' want to lynch someone that is looking townie to me. true, I may be wrong and we'll see later on if that is so, but I'm not going to vote for someone who made a mistake that is at best neutral.

How exactly am I ignoring the Az thing? I left questions for him, I want my answers, but I cannot extract anything from him if he does not wish to type it. Or should I magically teleport over to his house and force him to answer at gunpoint? This is blatant misrepresentation. If I wasn't for the moment happy with my Az vote (btw, if you think he's scummy, why aren't *you* voting him or pursuing him past a single question?), I'd be voting you for that last post.

I am content to wait for Az's answer. Depending on that I will vote or not. The point is, I'm not making retro look even more scummy in the meantime.

I really think the gunpoint thing is too much. If you were REALLY town you would be threatening him with rope and not firearms. Therefore, I think you have given yourself away... NOT REALLY! (that was a joke) I think Az is the scummiest player so far, even though I don't think we have much to go on yet.

[sekinj]

on a side note: I'm not sure why everyone thinks I'm a he... I have a cute little cuddly kitty as my avatar... Plus a little pink gender sign... not a big deal, but it's weird how it happens in every game I play...

[sekinj]

...you'll look into something? Instead of "looking into" it, could you actually do it? Not starting conversations is not something to be proud of.

wow...mirth...you need to do somthing with your day other than this forum, unfortunatly I have a life and this game gets played when I have time...

@retro: I don't know that this was necessary. We all play this game when we have the time and we all have lives. I understand you were a little miffed at mirth saying you didn't post enough content, but this isn't the way to respond. This just makes you look worse. In fact, this and the newbie card is moving you higher on my scum list.

then of course I make a point VS farside and you stick up for them...of course you attack others for quickly defending others, so why defending farside?!?!

I agree that mirth and farside seems to be in agreement quite a bit, totally wifom but I don't thinkscum-buddies would be so obvious, therefore I'm not suspicious of it.

[sekinj]

Retro asked about my comment towards Sek and frankly it's exactly as Mirth stated. She is defending you and I want to know her reasons for why she feels one way about a person versus another.

i already answered this.

[sekinj]

Retro asked about my comment towards Sek and frankly it's exactly as Mirth stated. She is defending you and I want to know her reasons for why she feels one way about a person versus another.

i already answered this.

I know you did I was answering Retro's question directed to me.

okay. just making sure. you didn't respond to my answer and your answer to retro was in present tense as if you still wanted to know my reasons.

[sekinj]

@mirth: Why did you think an extension was needed? This actually makes me more suspicous of you, cause it makes you look like you are trying to hard to be townie.

[sekinj]

my question is why ask for an extension a week in advance...shouldn't that wait till a day or 2 before deadline max?

wait, didn't I just ask that?

[sekinj]

first Mirth answers for Farside, then Farside answers for Mirth.

vote: Mirth

. but I could be easily convinced to switch to farside. 55/45 here

you aren't doing yourself any favors in my book. this is bad reasoning (and I use the term 'reasoning' loosely).

[sekinj]

I can't see the mirth/strife connection. sure it could be distancing at first, but currently their vote is split. You'd think they'd come together at some point. and Strife alone doesn't look like scum to me.

I think az and retro are the most scummy. I will vote for retro, because I think ven if he is not scum he is a distraction at this point. too many newbie mistakes and bad plays, not enough good defenses.

Vote: retro

[sekinj]

FOS: Sel

After defending Retro, I have to ask, wtf?

have you been reading what I've been saying?? or just maing the generalization that I've been defending retro. I did not think his first mistake was scummy. If you have noticed, I've called him on every "mistake" he's made since then.

[sekinj]

FOS: Sel

After defending Retro, I have to ask, wtf?

have you been reading what I've been saying?? or just maing the generalization that I've been defending retro. I did not think his first mistake was scummy. If you have noticed, I've called him on every "mistake" he's made since then.

I have been reading what you were saying. You have shown no indication of suspicion prior to this. Just writing him off as a newbie. But yes, you have asked questions. Considering your "its a newbie mistake" comments, said questions come off more as clarifying than anything else. Vote is out of the blue.

Iam, if I'm in first and Az is in second, why aren't you theorizing an Az/Mirth scumpair as vocally. BTW, don't talk about your protown vibes please.

...you'll look into something? Instead of "looking into" it, could you actually do it? Not starting conversations is not something to be proud of.

wow...mirth...you need to do somthing with your day other than this forum, unfortunatly I have a life and this game gets played when I have time...

@retro: I don't know that this was necessary. We all play this game when we have the time and we all have lives. I understand you were a little miffed at mirth saying you didn't post enough content, but this isn't the way to respond.

This just makes you look worse. In fact, this and the newbie card is moving you higher on my scum list.

then of course I make a point VS farside and you stick up for them...of course you attack others for quickly defending others, so why defending farside?!?!

I agree that mirth and farside seems to be in agreement quite a bit, totally wifom but I don't thinkscum-buddies would be so obvious, therefore I'm not suspicious of it.

first Mirth answers for Farside, then Farside answers for Mirth. vote: Mirth. but I could be easily convinced to switch to farside. 55/45 here

you aren't doing yourself any favors in my book. this is bad reasoning (and I use the term 'reasoning' loosely).

See the bolded parts above. As you can see, I've been questioning all of retro's subsequent mistakes.

[sekinj]

sekinj: Retro didn't make any comments after your comment about his play. Why did you not vote for him then? Why vote for him now? Was this based on a reread?

not a complete re-read per say, just additional consideration. Several things were happening: No one else was doing things I considered as scummy, it didn't look like retro planned to respond, plus I don't know what he could say that would have swayed me. The deadline was getting closer, and I felt solid enough in my suspicion to go ahead with my vote.

[sekinj]

My vote stayed off during my vacation. I didn't want a quick lynch while I was gone. Also there are so many people pinging my scumdar.
Mirth and Iam interaction that bugged me early on.
sekinj change of heart after a reread is questionable
Retro's weird unvote, vote and newbie card
Azrael's asking for the cop to claim.
I'm surprised that Mirth didn't question Sekinj further. Even with what she brought up retro never reacted or stated anything from her one post to her vote for him.
I'm feeling either Mirth or Azrael scum at the moment.

retro not responding to me, or any other arguments effectively was another reason I voted for him.

[sekinj]

I just found this in my purusing.

sekinj : Post 24: Why did you think Strife's vote was random? Mostly good comments stated. Very thoughtful on what is going on in the game.

here is my original quote:

Strife: Was you vote on retro random or serious? i thought it was serious since you said the random stuff wasn't going anywhere. But your later questioning of mirth's suspicions make me think you thougt you were being random.

@far: I didn't think strife's vote was random. It seems serious, but it was on page 1, so I was asking for clarification from Strife.

Here is the vote I was referencing:

Well this random voting stage isn't going anywhere fast.

Obligatory

Unvote, Vote: Retrowiz

for putting a player L-2 on page 1! Sure fire lynch here; this tell is never wrong.

He later said that he was obviously joking...

[sekinj]

@far re:Retro - His play is just bad. His posts do not include content. I will go back and take a closer look at him in isolation, but what I am seeing so far is just useless comments, stealing other people's arguements, petty personal attacks, and no follow-up... maybe I'm being blinded by noobiness, but where is the analysis and comrehension??

[sekinj]

I won't drop the hammer, but I have no problem with the Az lynch. I haven't examined the arguments carefully, but on the surface they seem sound.

[sekinj]

*respects twilight, unlike others*

[sekinj]

I was actually just joking. Posting in twilight in order to give you grief about posting in twilight

[sekinj]

Well, I think most people are playing pretty good townie/scum hunters.

I am still suspicious of retro, but I will admit that maybe his newbieness just annoys me. So i'm going to ignore him for now.

I will admit that most of these seems weak, but this is all I have for now.

iam - for agreeing with me about retro. feels like buddying. Last time this happened to me, the other guy was scum. Iam also did it to Strife when strife said I was the most town player, who we know was town. He is also coaching in his post 17, which seems scummy.
far - always plays very townie, this time I think it's fake.
mirth - seems to have good agression tactics, sometimes goes off half cocked.

At this point, If the deputy has results, I think he/she should claim. I'm truthfully feeling a little lost otherwise....

[sekinj]

lol I guess I can't help but come off scummy.

I wasn't convinced enough of the Az scum to drop the hammer, but neither was I convinced enough of his town to try to defend him.

[sekinj]

I'm tempted to propose a strong look at voting Mirth since she seems to be on eveyones top pairings list. other than Sek, which doesn't seem to have any suspects.

@retro: I believe that should be 'who' not 'which'... I am a conscious being after all. Oh, and you could try reading as well.

iam - for agreeing with me about retro. feels like buddying. Last time this happened to me, the other guy was scum. Iam also did it to Strife when strife said I was the most town player, who we know was town. He is also coaching in his post 17, which seems scummy.
far - always plays very townie, this time I think it's fake.
mirth - seems to have good agression tactics, sometimes goes off half cocked.

[sekinj]

grammer not my strong point. deal with it. besides "sekinj" is that a name or object. who knows?

Neither is BBcode apparently. And it's called a "username"; something unique that you make up to identify yourself online. Since I had to explain that to you, I'm assuming 'retrowiz' is your given name?

iam - for agreeing with me about retro. feels like buddying. Last time this happened to me, the other guy was scum. Iam also did it to Strife when strife said I was the most town player, who we know was town. He is also coaching in his post 17, which seems scummy.
far - always plays very townie, this time I think it's fake.
mirth - seems to have good agression tactics, sometimes goes off half cocked.

are we to assume you see Iam as a suspect from this? is that as much conviction you ever have on lylo? I was hoping when you had a suspect it whould be more pointed than THAT!!

That is what a suspect list is... a list of suspects. And yes, iam is right there at the top of mine. You can even go back and look at it in context if you wish (it is Post 217 as referenced above). I didn't even bother listing you because I am the first to admit that my suspicions of you may well be completely biased by your utter noobility.

I can also wish that I had a better idea of who is scum, but at least I'm not just picking the common factor in everyone else's scum list.

[sekinj]

sekinj, do you want to try answering my questions to you in #222? And, while you're at it, why do you think the town feeling you get from farside is 'fake' this time?

thanks for reminding me of this. I meant to answer, but I got distracted by the wiz-kid.

[sekinj]

lol I guess I can't help but come off scummy.

I wasn't convinced enough of the Az scum to drop the hammer, but neither was I convinced enough of his town to try to defend him.

That's not wishy washy at all.

I wasn't making any point regarding my conviction or lack there of. I just truthfully didn't have a read on Az, but wanted to be sure to comment on it before the lynch happened so that it didn't look like i was avoiding the subject.

[sekinj]

iam - for agreeing with me about retro. feels like buddying.

Do you think I was buddying with you or retro?

It seems like you were buddying with me.

Why do you think it was buddying, and not simply a town player agreeing with your eminently reasonable position?

because you used the word eminently. No, really it just seems like buddying because from my point of view everyone was attacking me and then suddenly your swooped in with your knightly avatar and agreed with me.

Iam also did it to Strife when strife said I was the most town player, who we know was town.

I assume you mean Az, since strife definitely didn't say that. Again, why do you think it was buddying?

Yes, I meant Az, thanks for the correction. You just seemed very bent on defending the underdogs during the first few pages. Like you are bent on saving people from the evils of being hunted as scum.

He is also coaching in his post 17, which seems scummy.

Why? If retro were my scumbuddy, as I assume you are insinuating, don't you think I'd have explained this to him during the night?

Probably, unless you didn't think retro would make it to night, or if you thought it was innocent enough to say it during the day, or urgent enough to say it during the day.

Post #98: The accusation that Mirth and farside are ignoring Az is odd, and may be an attempt to distract attention away from retro. I still agree with sekinj's defence of retro, but it is somewhat fishy that she readily gives retro the benefit of the doubt for his mistake but fails to do the same for Azrael.

I explained this already:

because retro's mistake was obvious in his first post about it. He says, "same reason, wrong name beside it" which references back to his first random vote against me. So, he was obviously still random voting, however badly he mis-read the thread and however misguided his attempt to 'correct' a random vote, he was still random voting. He then unvoted 5 minutes later because has was done with random voting as he states in Post 36.

Az on the other hand, breaks into the middle of the serious discussion with what looks like an all out attack without anything to back it up. He leaves it that way for over 24 hours, and only then comes back and says he made a mistake.

these are drastically different. I'm not saying Az is scum (which is why I haven't voted him), but I am saying his mistake was much more scummy.

Post #136 does not seem at all sincere.

well, it was.

I don't care what sekinj says, her retro vote did pretty much come out of nowhere.

You mean, you don't care to look at the evidence to the contrary? I was making posts that disagreed or ridiculed retro at least a week before voting him.

Post #200. "I won't drop the hammer, but I have no problem with the Az lynch." So, so scummy. Also, you haven't examined the arguments against Az carefully? Why the hell not? In fact, throughout Day 1, sekinj put in little comments nudging the Azrael wagon along, while keeping herself pretty distanced from it. Yeah, scummy scum scum.

Because after his initial blunder he didn't seem that scummy to me (or that townie). But as we got closer to deadline, it looks like everyone else thought he was scum, SO, I wanted to be sure to comment on him before he was lynched. I didnt' want to avoid the subject although I didn't have anything to add.

[sekinj]

sekinj, do you want to try answering my questions to you in #222? And, while you're at it, why do you think the town feeling you get from farside is 'fake' this time?

thanks for reminding me of this. I meant to answer, but I got distracted by the wiz-kid.

An answer for this would be nice. I was going to ask and saw Iam beat me to the punch.

See post 241.

[sekinj]

EBWOP: Oh, nevermind. In answering all of iam's other questions I guess I forgot the one farside would be most interested in.

She can't be town all the time. I think it is odd that iam always thinks farside plays scummy, and I always thinks she plays townie.

In this game at first her and mirth were going side by side. When that was pointed out, mirth embraced it and said basically said that it could indeed be a scumtell, while farside distanced herself from it. That made it seem more like mirth was town and farside could be scum. I know when I am town I am less concerned that my action appear scummy.

[sekinj]

It just seems sudden on your part where mirth just went when the flow... that's what seems scummy.

[sekinj]

It just seems sudden on your part where mirth just went when the flow... that's what seems scummy.

You missed the part where I agreed with your logic.
I was just explaining my thought process at the time it was brought up.

I know you agreed... I was just re-iterating why it stood out as scummy.

@mirth: Thanks for the tips... not to be rude, but I will probably gather my own meta on you as I play with you more.

[sekinj]

Sek, meta me all you like, hopefully it won't help. I don't believe in meta pretty much and try to be consistent.

Well, I'm just saying that the little tips don't really sway me since they are coming from you and are about you.

[sekinj]

Eh, my 2 cents: I think it' a Sek/Retro scum pair.

Well, let's lynch retro and see.... not really!

I think we in big trouble if I am most people's suspect...

[sekinj]

... so I was bait?

[sekinj]

Iamausername: I understood why you did what you did, but it was risky. I don't know how often you are online, but doing such an act could have been a loss for the town.

and it will be a loss for the town if it is followed through on...

[sekinj]

Mirth/Sek if you were to vote right now who would you vote for and why?

I would gladly vote for retro... but my suspicion against iam is strengthed by this:

Yeah, this is Lylo, so NOBODY VOTE.

At this point, I can't see anything convincing me that these conclusions are incorrect, so I'm going to be bold and

Vote: sekinj

.

Yeah, I know we have to vote at some time today, but to scream at everyone not to vote, and then lay down a vote without dicussion is pretty scummy. He examined everyone thoroughly, but at this point he should have fos'd first, or just announced his intentions.

[sekinj]

Please answer this:

if you were to vote right now who would you vote for and why?

I was working on it...

[sekinj]

Please answer this:

if you were to vote right now who would you vote for and why?

I was working on it...

Sorry about that.
Just when I see someone post and not answer a question I asked I start hounding them.

I've noticed But I tend to post seperately for seperate thoughts or answers, unless I'm doing cases...

[sekinj]

It is pretty scary that we are only Day2 and already lylo.

[sekinj]

Sek: If you are sure that retro is scum why are you not voting him?

becuase I was the first to admit that I'm biased. I can't tell if retro is scum or just personally annoying. That is why I was looking more seriously at iam.

[sekinj]

@iam: I have made scum lists already.

[sekinj]

I think either iam/retro or iam/farside are the scum team. I think mirth is probably town.

[sekinj]

Is there any particular reason that you're not voting me, then?

Yeah, becuase we are at lylo and not even close to deadline. I'm not voting anyone right now and won't be until everything is thoroughly discussed.

[sekinj]

You try too hard.

I don't even know how to defend against that...

[sekinj]

mirth is just last on my scum list. She is agressive, but this time I think farside is scum over mirth.

I still think both iam and retro are very scummy. Until the 22nd seems like a long time...

[sekinj]

OKAY!! I thought about this. I know you guys are goignt o say I flip flopped, but here is my reasoning:

unbiased general scenarios given far's argument:

AA. Three townies agree and are correct = retro AND sek are scum
AB. Two town + one bussing scum agree =

either

retro OR sek are scum
AC. One town + two scum agree = retro and sek are town

specific scenarios given my knowledge of my own PM (sek=town):

BA. Two town (mirth/iam) + one bussing scum (far) agree = retro is scum
BB. Two town (mirth/far) + one bussing scum (iam) agree = retro is scum
BC. Two town (iam/far) + one bussing scum (mirth) agree = retro is scum
BD. One town (far) + two scum (mirth/iam) = retro is town
BE. One town (iam) + two scum (mirth/far) = retro is town
BF. One town (mirth) + two scum (iam/far) = retro is town

HOWEVER --> far is the one who pointed out that is was weird to have 3 of 5 people agree on a scum pair, so that bumps her to town IMHHHO. So that knocks out scenarioes BA, BE, and BF.

the options remaining:

BB. iam/retro are scum
BC. mirth/retro are scum
BD. mirth/iam are scum


I personally think the strongest chance is that retro is scum. currently, after that I would go iam then mirth.

unvote, vote: retro

[sekinj]

@far: because you didn't make sense until you explained it to mirth in post 293. I then posted after that (post 294) in response to you are mirth in posts 288 and 289, but had not read or fully understood the discussion between you and mirth in Posts 290 - 293. After review, I understood what your point was, threw all my previous suspects out the window, and started new thinking about these scenarioes.

[sekinj]

dang it people. Mirth, you just were last on my scum list, which makes you the most town. I was mostly talking about vibes at that point. Now, I think I actually have something substantial. However, it is probably too late because the scum have way too much swaying power.

[sekinj]

dang it people. Mirth, you just were last on my scum list, which makes you the most town. I was mostly talking about vibes at that point. Now, I think I actually have something substantial. However, it is probably too late because the scum have way too much swaying power.

That is only true if everyone is has said something was scum right now and 3 people can't be scum. The only person not making sense is Retro.

I wasn't saying there are 3 scum. I'm saying who-ever the scum are, they have a lot of influence right now no matter their physical number. If it is 1 plus retro, then that 1 has a lot of influence. I'm just saying I feel at a dis-advantage because somehow (fair or not) I've ended up without a lot of influence in this game. I don't know that I can convince you in time.

[sekinj]

@far: What are you expecting Retro to say? I don't want you to post the answer in thread, but just consider it...

[sekinj]

@far: What are you expecting Retro to say? I don't want you to post the answer in thread, but just consider it...

I can't answer this so why ask it? I have an answer but you think I am going to say what it is?

grr. read what I wrote!! I just wanted to be sure you had soemthing in mind. something that you were expecting from retro.

[sekinj]

if you were goign to react the same way no matter what he said, then there is no point in twiddling our thumbs. I'm not trying to rush it, I just wanted you to be sure to consider what you were expecting from retro before he said anything.

[sekinj]

so... it looks liek everyone is convinced I am scum anyway? just trying to figure out who may partner is? why not just lynch me and figure out my partner tomorrow?

[sekinj]

I'd say this game is a scum win.

[sekinj]

because I'm everyone's top suspect!

today we will <probably> either lynch retro or me. If I'm lynch we lose. If retro is lynched and is town, we lose. If retro is lynched and is scum, then scum will kill someone tonight, and I think they will kill farside. Then mirth and iam will lynch me tomorrow saying that I bussed retro. which equals a scum win.

the only way town could win is if we lynch retro and he is scum, and then the remaining scum nks me (which they won't do because I am too easy of a target, and because I'm spelling it out right now). Only then will the two reamining town be clear to look at the scum.

If we don't lose today, and no matter if far, mirth, or iam is nk'd, I'll be lynch tomorrow becuase everyone will say I bussed retro. so... scum win. I'm just about writing this game off.

[sekinj]

If retro is lynched and is town, we lose.

How do you think this is going to happen, exactly? Did you miss the part where, if you were actually town, retro would now be confirmed scum to you?

I don't agree with that completly, although i think it is likely that retro is scum. I still think there could be a mirth/iam scum pair. Why is that out of the picture?

[sekinj]

Because if Iam and I were scum together, we would have quick lynched Retro with your vote already. If you did not think we were out of the picture as a scum pair, why did you not object to my math before.

I just ignored it, exactly like mine was ignored.

[sekinj]

I put the generic A scenarioes in at the first. Those are the unbiased ones, as I mentioned.

But, yes I see the logic behind what you are saying. I am relieved to know that there is a pretty good possiblity that tomorrow will come.

So, retro should be back tomorrow and we can see what he has to say. Then for the last scum I'm torn between mirth and iam.

[sekinj]

I'd rather see how the retro thing goes for right now. thanks.

[sekinj]

it's still the 22nd here.... I wonder where retro's from...

[sekinj]

Sek, if you think one of us is scum, it is your duty, if you are town, to put a case forward. The I'll watch and see thing isnt giving you any brownie points.

If no one has any objections, I'm giving Retro until the 25th to post, and then, unless he manages to do something so incredibly scummy that it tilts the earth's orbit, I'm voting Sek.

once again, thanks so much for the tip, mirth. I think I shall play the game on my own time-table though.

[sekinj]

the only thing anyone has on me is that is look like I'm bussing retro... Here is my defense: I'm not.

I've already explained why I thought retro's first mistake wasn't that bad, and Az's was worse. Please tell me what else I need to defend against.

[sekinj]

@IAM: or I could try to convince you that iam/retro are the scum pair... but I guess that may be an uphill battle.

I don't know who the other scum is between iam and mirth, but it is interesting that retro wants to lynch iam. Maybe he is bussing, but I don't think so since his own head is already on the chopping block. He would want to deflect attention away from his partner and that makes me lean more toward mirth as the scum.

That is why I wanted to wait and see what retro had to say. I will do some re-reading now...

[sekinj]

A discussion on iam:

Okay. So I am fairly confident in two things: A. retro is scum (99% sure) and B. far is town (85% sure).

So I went back and read mirth’s and then iam’s posts. The first thing that struck me was that mirth attacked retro right away at the beginning. It really seemed to strong to be distancing and there was no reason to be bussing at that point. And then Iam chimes in ever so softly AFTER I have made a stand

for

retro that he agrees with me. Notice how he says “I’m with sekinj on this one” (iam in isolation Post 2) rather than simply making a stand on his own for retro. He is sure to pair up with someone in order to make his opinion less forceful, yet still he evens out the retro argument making it 2 on 2, rather than 2 on 1. And then, while I get sick of Retro’s newbiness, Iam continues to defend it (iam in isolation post 8). Then two posts later he makes it clear his los is mirth, az, strife and that he is getting “a pro-town vibe from the other three” which would be far, retro and me (iam in isolation Poat 10).
He then starts out today declaring that no one should vote AND pushing the deputy to claim. He also has one post suggesting a mass claim (18).

His posts in isolation number 7, 17, and the first part of 18 feel like retro coaching to me. And next he begins his attack on me even though the day before he was getting a pro-town vibe from me. Interesting that he stops getting those vibes immediately after I made a case on him. His suspicion of mirth fades quickly as well. He then begins his pbpa by putting in lots of doubt about mirth (isolation post 19) saying that he doesn’t think she is scum because the person iam thought was her partner the day before was lynched turned out town. Now, that is very interesting, because most of Iam’s case against strife the day before was that mirth was scummy and strife was the partner. So now that strife is town, that suddenly makes mirth not scummy? He is reasoning in a circle. It seems like an easy out and an excuse to switch his case to a more popular one. Did you also notice how WEAK Iam’s “pbpa” of retro was? He only points out one post retro made, and he was sure to agree with someone else about that post rather than make his own stand. Iam is perfectly confident enough to voice his singular opinion about everyone except retro. Whenever iam mentions retro, he always mentions who he is in agreement with.

He makes 5 points against me:
- I don’t like the random voting stage
- I defended retro (which he thinks is fine) but didn’t defend Az --- I already explained this twice
- One of my posts didn’t seem sincere…
- My retro vote “came out of no-where” ---- ironic, because iam’s sekinj vote is REALLY about to come out of no where.
- I didn’t hammer Az ---- btw, I still haven’t seen an example of where I supposedly “nudged the Az wagon along”.
Now, after his thorough discussion of far and mirth, I find it odd that the above case against me gets his vote. His excuse is that he can see me as a scum partner with either mirth or retro, so I am a better vote. Now, let’s hold on a second… When in the world did he become suspicious of retro?? Suddenly retro is in one of Iam’s 2 most likely scum pairs?
Iam almost completely clears mirth in post 29 citing her response to iam’s big post… (weak). I also thing Post 32 is Freudian slip.

Ends by bussing retro without presenting any kind of case.

[sekinj]

I assume this means you're not scum with sekinj then, farside?

that's right. we are both town, as you know already...

[sekinj]

@mirth: Are you kidding? Did you not see my massive post yesterday?

vote: Iam

[sekinj]

For those of you who can't scroll up:

A discussion on iam:

Okay. So I am fairly confident in two things: A. retro is scum (99% sure) and B. far is town (85% sure).

So I went back and read mirth’s and then iam’s posts. The first thing that struck me was that mirth attacked retro right away at the beginning. It really seemed to strong to be distancing and there was no reason to be bussing at that point. And then Iam chimes in ever so softly AFTER I have made a stand

for

retro that he agrees with me. Notice how he says “I’m with sekinj on this one” (iam in isolation Post 2) rather than simply making a stand on his own for retro. He is sure to pair up with someone in order to make his opinion less forceful, yet still he evens out the retro argument making it 2 on 2, rather than 2 on 1. And then, while I get sick of Retro’s newbiness, Iam continues to defend it (iam in isolation post 8). Then two posts later he makes it clear his los is mirth, az, strife and that he is getting “a pro-town vibe from the other three” which would be far, retro and me (iam in isolation Poat 10).
He then starts out today declaring that no one should vote AND pushing the deputy to claim. He also has one post suggesting a mass claim (18).

His posts in isolation number 7, 17, and the first part of 18 feel like retro coaching to me. And next he begins his attack on me even though the day before he was getting a pro-town vibe from me. Interesting that he stops getting those vibes immediately after I made a case on him. His suspicion of mirth fades quickly as well. He then begins his pbpa by putting in lots of doubt about mirth (isolation post 19) saying that he doesn’t think she is scum because the person iam thought was her partner the day before was lynched turned out town. Now, that is very interesting, because most of Iam’s case against strife the day before was that mirth was scummy and strife was the partner. So now that strife is town, that suddenly makes mirth not scummy? He is reasoning in a circle. It seems like an easy out and an excuse to switch his case to a more popular one. Did you also notice how WEAK Iam’s “pbpa” of retro was? He only points out one post retro made, and he was sure to agree with someone else about that post rather than make his own stand. Iam is perfectly confident enough to voice his singular opinion about everyone except retro. Whenever iam mentions retro, he always mentions who he is in agreement with.

He makes 5 points against me:
- I don’t like the random voting stage
- I defended retro (which he thinks is fine) but didn’t defend Az --- I already explained this twice
- One of my posts didn’t seem sincere…
- My retro vote “came out of no-where” ---- ironic, because iam’s sekinj vote is REALLY about to come out of no where.
- I didn’t hammer Az ---- btw, I still haven’t seen an example of where I supposedly “nudged the Az wagon along”.
Now, after his thorough discussion of far and mirth, I find it odd that the above case against me gets his vote. His excuse is that he can see me as a scum partner with either mirth or retro, so I am a better vote. Now, let’s hold on a second… When in the world did he become suspicious of retro?? Suddenly retro is in one of Iam’s 2 most likely scum pairs?
Iam almost completely clears mirth in post 29 citing her response to iam’s big post… (weak). I also thing Post 32 is Freudian slip.

Ends by bussing retro without presenting any kind of case.

[sekinj]

I did read it Sek, but you said it depended on how Retro flipped.

In my case against iam I said I was 99% sure retro was scum. The whole case was with retro as scum. I may have said earlier that it depended how retro flipped, but as we got closer to lynch I was very sure he was scum. So no, my case still stands.

@iam: although you have claimed doc, I'd still like you to address the points in my case.

--If town loses this game I would say it was well, well deserved.

[sekinj]

Shit.

I'm thinking maybe far IS scum since she is not listening to reason, and she usually does.

@Far: what happened to it's weird that everyone agrees on the sek/retro scum pair?

@iam: too much tunnel vision. Your suspicion of me started after I made a case on you, and hasn't let up since. why?

@mirth: good game if you are the scum.

[sekinj]

@iam: although you have claimed doc, I'd still like you to address the points in my case.

No thanks. I'm confirmed town since nobody has countered me, so why would I need to?

this game is such a lost cause. I *really* feel like voting myself out, but I will let mirth do the honors.

[sekinj]

Far going back on the only thing she said yesterday that made me think she is town. Also, if mirth was scum, iam's protection of her wouldn't have done anything and either far, iam or I would have died. no one has counterclaimed doc, OR claimed deputy, so I guess I have to beleive iam. SOooooo..... Far is the scum.

unvote, vote: farside

[sekinj]

farside is the scum.

mirth and iam - you shall soon see. and I want your apologies in writing.

[sekinj]

Building a case against a claimed doc is rediculous unless you are claiming doc at this point.

I BUILT THE CASE YESTERDAY!!! HE CLAIMED TODAY!!

[sekinj]

I think if she had said she was the doc I would have held off too Mirth. She didn't. If you want to look into my post and wait I have no issue either.

@mirth: Is far usually this passive?? Or would she usually say, "mirth you are wasting your time looking at my posts, I have been so townie all along and I did blah blah blah to get retro."

[sekinj]

Building a case against a claimed doc is rediculous unless you are claiming doc at this point.

I BUILT THE CASE YESTERDAY!!! HE CLAIMED TODAY!!

You wanted him to go over the case you brought up after he claimed. Why?

becuase i still wondered why he acted so scummy if he was doc. but everyone else chimed in and no one counterclaimed, so I dropped it.

[sekinj]

Nah, I just skimmed all your posts, Farside. If you're scum, congratulations, you have us all fooled. Sek doomed herself when she didnt counterclaim.

vote:Sek

i doomed myself when I didnt' lie. great.

[sekinj]

well, now that I am dead: I will tell you the truth ---



I AM TOWN YOU IDIOTS!!!

[sekinj]

Nah, I just skimmed all your posts, Farside. If you're scum, congratulations, you have us all fooled. Sek doomed herself when she didnt counterclaim.

vote:Sek

i doomed myself when I didnt' lie. great.

It's in scum's best interest to fake claim power roles when they can. If you beat Iam to the doctor claim, you might have won. Unless Farside is really scum here.

and another great tip from mirth... but in case you didn't get the memo... scum already won this game.

[sekinj]

.... *waits for apologies*

[sekinj]

.... *waits for apologies*

I'm sorry sek that I had to use you to win as scum.

I know you did. I didn't expect an apology from you just from mirth and ESPECIALLY iam.

You basically fooled me when you said that not everyone could be right on about the retro/sek scum pair. then when you went back on that today, it made me catch on to you, but way too late.

ahh well, I'm always an easy target. everyone always thinks I'm scum.

[sekinj]

Congrats. I did reread you and saw absolutely nothing linking you to retro and a lot of awfulness from Sek and no awfulness from you.

good game to you too.

[sekinj]

EBWOP: The one thing I didn't understand was your vote on Retro though. You could have won yesterday as there was soooo much more on Sek.

she just wanted to torture me since i tortured her in another game we just finished.

[sekinj]

And, OK, sekinj. I'm sorry. I was wrong.

that's okay! just remember that next time I am in a game with you and seem scummy!!