Mini 653 - Family Guy Mafia - Game over

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/confirm

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OK!

vote: babygirl86

. No one would suspect the cute little baby girl, eh? Until she turns out to be a homicidally crazed Stewie Griffin in drag!

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Unvote, vote: GhostWriter

for being so arrogant as to think I would make this account just for him! Plus I'm a pianist, and as everyone knows there is a silent war between vocalists and instrumentalists





P.S. OMGUS

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Be aware that the numbers may be misleading when it comes to votes.

...Could this possibly mean that just because a certain player's vote doesn't show up on the official vote count doesn't mean the vote is ACTUALLY void when it comes lynching time?

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I don't have any problem with Llama's early admission of a voting restriction. Like he said, it would have been clear something was amiss at the first VC. He was just getting it out of the way.

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I personally think Xtoxm looks to have an overly gung-ho, possibly scummy attitude about LlamaFluff's "disposability." Xtoxm has no idea about Llama's role other than the voting restriction, and yet calls him out as a "safe lynch." He says that Llama has an anti-town role. You know what is REALLY anti-town? Suggesting that the town, whose main advantage in the game of mafia is the opportunity to lynch scum every day, waive that privilege and lynch someone just for having a voting restriction. And they "might catch scum!"

Forget scumhunting, forget looking for tells, let's just go for random chance! That always works!

I'm not going to vote for Xtoxm because I don't want him at L-1 right now. But I'd like to hear him talk more about this tactic of his. I'd like to hear him explain how it's not a huge mistake.

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Sorry, I'm here. I'm excited to jump right into a real mafia game, but I often find myself not posting as often as I'd like when I feel it goes over my head. I apologize, and I'll try to contribute on a more regular basis.

Goborage looks strange to me. He defends himself against allegations of character claiming...then proceeds to all but character claim in the very same post ("Being Cleveland is just a coincidence.") Since we've already been through how any character could potentially be a villain, especially in an essentially villain-free show such as Family Guy, it almost seems like scum excited to make a safe but of course uncontestable claim like Cleveland, a character that seems minimally suspicious.

His posts haven't been very meaty so far, either. He says he doesn't get the bandwagon on xtoxm and says that xtoxm makes some pretty good points, but doesn't add anything to that. Maybe he doesn't think anything needs to be added, but based on the current controversy and the fact that the controversy between Llama and xtoxm is the hot topic right now, you'd think maybe he'd have something to contribute. (I know, I know, I'm being hypocritical, since I've barely posted.)

Llama seems to have been a bit overbearing. Maybe it's just because he doesn't have a vote and he wants to make sure he has influence in the town, or maybe it's his playstyle of choice. But to me, he appears overly critical of people who don't join his bandwagons or think they're a bit hasty. I don't like the things xtoxm has said either, so I agree with him on that. But methinks Llama was pressing a mite too hard. (And he called me a "he"! But...mafiascum is genderblind, right?) But regardless, Llama's probing for input and discussion, and from what I've seen, accepts a good defense when it's given.

Xtoxm was the scummiest candidate in my mind for a while. I'm definitely not finding him particularly pro-town in his suggestions. But I think we can learn a lot more by examining the people on or off his bandwagon and their reasoning, or lack thereof. So for now I'm going to

unvote

and

vote

for

Goborage

. Expect to hear a little more from me from now on. I'm a little shy, but I'll get warmed up to this game. Especially since it's Family Guy!

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He said that his Cleveland quote was a joke, but "being Cleveland was just a coincidence." I see that as a claim.

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It's the "coincidence" part that throws me.

Not a character claim. I suppose the first quote didn't really make sense (it was something along the lines of "this is my house"). #2 being Cleveland was coincidence. I just felt that that needed to be said.

coincidence (n): a striking occurrence of two or more events at one time apparently by mere chance: Our meeting in Venice was pure coincidence.

The two events here would be:

a.) he randomly selected a Cleveland quote in his first post
b.) but he also happens to BE Cleveland

So, I'm thinking one of two possibilities:

a.) this is exactly what he means
b.) he has used the word coincidence to refer to another thing. In this case I want to hear from him what he DID mean, because I don't understand what else could possibly be coinciding in this context.

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Let's keep in mind that this also depends on the roles of other players. Maybe somebody has two votes, like a Politician type role, to balance a voting restriction like Llama's out. Maybe there's a vig. These things could either hurt or help the town, but I think it's safe to assume that Llama's not the only one who could influence the way the game turns out.

P.S. I'm definitely not asking anyone to claim, so don't accuse me of it. I'm just saying that Llama's and Xtoxm's number games only work in the simplest possible setup.

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The only concern I have with Llama's role at the moment is that it could be a very good way of getting the mafia to avoid night killing you. After all, if it benefits them in LYLO then why would they kill you when they could kill someone else and possibly get lucky?

So with the restriction, the mafia's less likely to NK you, yet the town's apparently more likely to lynch you.

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I agree with you there. I think we should focus on lynching scum. If we play our cards right as town, Llama is the least of our concerns.

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EBWOP. As far as him being Mafia, yeah, you're right, it'd be harder to catch him because there'd be no suspicion placed on him simply for not being NK'ed. But we can still look for scumtells just like anybody else. No one's exempt. But that's obvious, no breakthrough logic here...

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Yes, I agree with Kloud. I want to hear more from xtoxm about why goborage looks so good. Is it just because they agree with each other?

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Goborage, not dalt, is the one with the possible claim.

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Why haven't you answered my question, Xtoxm? Why did you say goborage looks "very good"? What has he contributed that you think is so great?

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This post?

I don't really get the wagon on xtoxm. He raises good points you know.

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Yeah, I'm not really surprised that you of all people like that post. But for me, it looks like yet another failure from goborage to provide actual content.

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I mostly want to hear from goborage himself. I want to know what he will say about his "coincidence" post. I hope he picks up his prod.

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I'm not saying that whether or not goborage is Cleveland matters as far as damning him or clearing him. It's the timing and obvious hypocrisy of the claim, if it is indeed a claim, that reeks of scum to me.

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I didn't see goborage's initial Cleveland quote as any sort of claim. It was when he said that being Cleveland was a coincidence that raised a red flag for me. I don't know about Llama. I think in the beginning he was just trying to find some topic of discussion to pull the posting out of random vote stage. But I myself am much more confused by his "coincidence" post, which he has yet to respond to. Poof, he's gone.

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Oh, I'm really sorry. I didn't realize that the "You're what the Spaniards call El Terrible" quote was also from Cleveland. This answers my question about what he meant when he said that being Cleveland was a coincidence. So I retract that part of my pressure. Still, though, I find goborage scummy because of his one-line contributions and unwillingness to elaborate. I don't know what caused him to disappear, but I guess it's probably for a genuine reason since he seems to be actually gone, not lurking. Hopefully his replacement will contribute something.

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I'm liking that goborage was replaced by someone who actually has something to say.

unvote

I am starting to raise an eyebrow about Llama. I had found him pretty town so far, but now I'm going to have to reread all his posts given what's been said recently. Now that I realize that goborage's "#2" was talking about QUOTE number two, a quote I didn't even notice, I'm going to have to look at this whole ordeal in a different light. Llama's pressure may be a bit opportunist. I remember that Llama was running around screaming "Vote xtoxm!" and then I charged in saying "I don't like goborage" and then Llama was running around screaming "Heeeey, you're right! I forgot all about goborage! Vote goborage!" Maybe it reeks a bit of hypocrisy for me to be saying this at a time when I appear to be doing the exact same thing, but most of my suspicion of goborage has been alleviated by his replacement, and I can't help but wonder about Llama now that it's clear that Llama had more information than me, yet still held onto my ignorance-based finger-pointing.

The ONLY reason I thought goborage had claimed was because I didn't notice that "You're what the Spaniards call El Terrible" was also a Cleveland quote, and THAT was the coincidence he was referring to. If Llama recognized this quote, and from his posts he clearly did, the whole "coincidence" thing should have been clear to him.

Yet of all the scummiest of the scummy here, it still seems that xtoxm takes the cake. Xtoxm's bandwagoning of Llama looks borderline FRANTIC! And his defense of goborage as town was admitedly based solely on a post goborage made saying that xtoxm brought up some pretty good points. And that somehow made goborage town? Just because he agreed with him? I especially didn't like the post when he said that lynching Llama based solely upon his voteless role would be beneficial to the town, and "...we might catch scum!" Might? Aren't we supposed to be maximizing our chances of catching scum by...I don't know...LOOKING for scum? Maybe Llama looked scummy to Xtoxm, but he didn't seem to care one way or another, nor did he contribute any evidence. It seemed to me he was actively protesting any scumhunting activities. How can that be good? He was the second scummiest on my list next to goborage, and now that goborage's replacement has cleared some things up for me, I'm afraid that the vote falls upon xtoxm.

vote xtoxm

I want to hear from both Llama and Xtoxm.

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I was just thinking earlier today when I was having a snack that BG looked suspicious, but I hadn't noticed the fact that she had avoided the xtoxm wagon until I read you guys' post. Good snooping. It does appear she had a tendency to lightly waltz around accusing him, being very soft on him in general, always preferring to keep the limelight on other players. I also don't like her complete 180. While I too changed my mind, I did it because new information came to light that I hadn't realized before. She seemed to do it for absolutely no reason, or perhaps just because she doesn't want to be alone in her accusation!

I'd be OK with either an xtoxm or BG wagon, as well. If we lynch one and he/she turns out scum, it'll shed more light on the other.

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You may not like reborn's case against you, but in my opinion, it's not half as bad as xtoxm's. And I've seen possible connections between BG, xtoxm, and goborage.

1. Xtoxm seemed to like goborage for no apparent reason. He has been questioned several times on why he thinks that goborage is town, and the only reason he's given is that he likes his posts. Especially the one about Xtoxm "bringing up some pretty good points." They were getting pretty snuggly before gobo got replaced. Then reborn immediately did what looks like a tad of distancing --not TOO much, but just enough, when he made one little measly comment about not being sure if he liked xtoxm, but subsequently moved on to talk about other people.

2. BG and xtoxm's possible association has just recently come up. I think it's a legitimate concern. I definitely think it needs close attention, and I don't agree with Llama's preference for looking at reborn instead. Any case is going to look like BS to you if it's against you, but you and only you know for sure that they're wrong. (Keep in mind that this is assuming innocence, a dangerous thing to assume!) I think all of these little threads need to be followed.

If I've missed something glaring, please let me know.

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Wow. I come back and Xtoxm and BG have claimed. I have very limited access this weekend and probably won't be posting the rest of today or tomorrow.

unvote

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I'm back. But where is the Inspector? I want to hear from him.

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What can I say in response to being downright suspicious? I was so sure goborage had claimed. I believe I was the first person to try to reevaluate goborage when everybody else had their sights on xtoxm. Maybe my suspicions of a name claim were misplaced, but I was still actively suspicious of him, not just bandwagoning. As for bandwagon jumping, I could no longer believe that goborage had claimed after I realized what his "coincidence" post was about. As I said many times before, I did not understand that "You're what the Spaniards call El Terrible" was another Cleveland quote, so I didn't understand what "#2 being Cleveland was just a coincidence" could possibly mean other than goborage was Cleveland. So I don't think it was that crazy for me to bandwagon jump.

And yeah, you're right, I'm not a very good scumhunter. But I am trying. And maybe that makes me look like I'm posting a whole lot of nothing, trying to appear helpful when I'm not, but I don't think that's an excuse to just sit back and plain old not even try to be helpful.

I'm going to have to do a major reread now. I'll be back with my major suspicion of the day and a detailed analysis of why. No, no, I can't just leave you hanging like this. It's IG. I shall return.

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I believe the Inspector is dirty. He's stayed under my radar for too long. When I examine his (far from numerous, far from high-content) posts, many of them strike me wrong.

Does Family Guy even have villains? The Chicken is the only one that comes to mind. The whole coming out and telling us of a vote restriction seems suspicious to me. I want more info. Does it count and just not show up on the board? Because a voteless player would be useless unless they were a power role or scum.

More info? Bringing up the possibility of Llama being a power role? Fishing, anyone? Perhaps he's scum speculating whether or not Llama might be a worthwhile NK after all. But wait...there's more.

The only concern I have with Llama's role at the moment is that it could be a very good way of getting the mafia to avoid night killing you. After all, if it benefits them in LYLO then why would they kill you when they could kill someone else and possibly get lucky?

What does this even mean? If Llama is town and his claim is true, this really doesn't mean anything at all! If IG thinks Llama is scum, why not just say that? And as for "it could be a very good way of getting the mafia to avoid NKing you," I don't like the sound of that at all. If IG is town, he's practically giving advice to scum. Even if he thinks it's obvious advice, why do it? First he seemed to be toying with the idea that Llama could be a power role. Now he's speculating about the best NK. Pro-town? I think not.

If he's a power role I wouldn't dislike it. But if he's an ordinary vanilla townie, then it just seems like a waste. I'd rather have a townie NK'd then a power role.

Ah, the "maybe Llama is a power role" suggestion rears its ugly head once again. Methinks IG shouldn't say everything that comes to his head.

Unless he's scum. In which case he should keep talking, and keep making it more and more obvious.

vote Inspector Godot

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Maybe you weren't speculating who to NK as scum IN THE GAME THREAD. But you're all but making suggestions to the scum if you're not. How is either one of those things a good idea?

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By the way, you still haven't really answered about why you were doing so much power role speculation, IG. How does that help anybody?

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What is the advantage of breadcrumbing in a theme game, where scum often have safeclaims anyway? Sorry, this is just a strategic question from a newbie.

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Nowhere. I was talking about theme games in general. In many of the ones I've read there have been safeclaims.

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EBWOP. That's why I said "often", referring to "in theme games", so that would be clear. Guess it wasn't.

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I didn't say they always have safeclaims. I don't know much about how often they have safeclaims, but I've read some minigames, such as Roald Dahl Mafia, where they had safeclaims. Honestly I was just asking a strategic question. I thought I made it clear that I said that scum OFTEN have safeclaims IN THEME GAMES. I wasn't even necessarily talking about THIS theme game. I was asking about the advantages of breadcrumbing in a theme game where scum often have safeclaims. I guess I should have known that asking this would paint a target on my ass, but I'd still like to know the answer.

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I think my reasons for my vote on IG are pretty sound. His posts do little to help the town, and almost seem to be advice to scum half the time. It's not like I think scum would deliberately come across as helping scum in the daytime, but they might find themselves less careful about giving information to scum. Town has to walk a thin rope during the daytime. You have to help your fellow townspeople, but you also have to keep some information to yourself, lest you inadvertently give power to the scum. Scum might tend to be a little less careful on the balancing act.

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Well, sorry to disappoint, but I don't know if they have them. I was only speculating. But I can see how it looks bad.

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No, he wasn't advising other scum, he was just speculating about information that might help the scum. He was just being very...un-careful, something that town can't afford to be. I pointed them out in my case against IG in post 292. He too much talking about power roles and who the mafia probably would or wouldn't NK.

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EBWOP. *He

did

too much talking

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I'd always been a little wary of him, but I thought he hadn't posted enough to get a clear read. When StD brought IG up in conjunction with his suspicions of me, it reminded me of the fact that I was letting him go unnoticed (by me). I thought I'd give his posts another read, so I displayed just his posts and read them. That's when I noticed all his weird anti-town speculation.

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Scum would be more careful in general, but as far as revealing things that might help the scum, I could imagine them accidentally slipping on that a few times.

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Vote: Extension

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Yes, thank you, mod.

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I thought that an extension had already been granted.

It was. 3 day extention, but better then tripping and skining your knee ala peter griffen.

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Well, I can understand how you don't like the excuse of "I'm not a very good scumhunter," but I don't know what else to say. I'm contributing all I can. If it doesn't look like enough, that must be why, but I'm trying to do better.

Beyond that, I don't understand how IG's power role speculation being "accidental" matters much. It's anti-town. If someone's a power role, they can out themselves when they want to. And IG still says he believes he should say everything he thinks. Isn't this game about working together while keeping SOME ideas and speculation to yourself, lest you help the scum? It doesn't sound pro-town to me to suggest that everything IG thinks should be right out in the open, for scum and town alike to read.

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I wonder if you're going to say why.

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My guess would be that he thinks I'm bussing him, but why? Why can't it be legitimate suspicion?

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First of all, BG, you've been pregnant for like six years; either have the baby or don't. Second of all, seriously. That was weak sauce. Why am I not surprised, though?

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Well, xtoxm, I think IG looks scummier than anyone else. Why would I not vote for him? I already presented my case. Maybe the reason I find him suspicious is "trivial" to you or thinktank but for me he just seems all-around anti-town.

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i have injured myself and must type with one hand for a while. thus i will not be posting a lot. this sucks for a piano performance major.

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hello family guy mafia. i will be fully back in 3 days. i am still trying to stay off my left hand and now i am on hydrocodone. so thinking is not an option, haha. i'll still check in and read the games i'm in though.

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oh and thank you, gw, for being concerned. yeah, we musicians are like athletes huh. we rely on our bodies a lot.

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It's technically Tuesday so I'm taking off the bandages and now I can reach the Shift key. Hooray for capitalization.

Claim, huh?

Unvote

And now I'm going to bed.

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OK. Here I am. A lot has happened. Yeah, I always kind of assumed that Llama might have some other role besides voteless vanilla town. I just didn't want to pull an IG and step right out and say it. I tend to believe Llama, and I think 5 hours is plenty of time for a short trade of PM's about the role.

I was mostly looking at reborn when I was reading the thread daily in my hazy, Lortab-clouded stupor, but now he's claimed. I could see Stewie as an SK, but maybe it's bastard moddery. I' not sure. I don't think he's the lynch of the day.

E_K saying "hey, anybody want to lynch RF because of her safeclaim comment?" seems pretty weak. Even the way she phrased it seems strange. It almost seems like she chose me for a lynch and

then

came up with reasoning. I was aware when I typed that strategic question up that I had to phrase it right or I'd be painting a target on my ass, but I wanted to ask anyway. E_K and thinktank seem to be the only ones who thought it was scummy. But I'm biased, because it's me.

Oh, and the way E_K reacted to Xtoxm suggesting that maybe Llama could be scum that knows Peter isn't in the game. That is a similar conjecture to the one I made about safeclaims in minigames, yet E_K didn't harass him about it in the same way. I think it could be because she doesn't really find it scummy; she's just looking for a reason to jump on somebody. And that's scummy.

Now, about scum. Let's see.

RestFermata - town. Heh. But I'm not here to convince you of that; I'm here to hunt scum.

Xtoxm - claimed lover (maybe scum, but shouldn't lynch D1.) I don't have a problem with Xtoxm's willingness to take one for the town. Maybe it is a really bad idea to lynch a lover D1, but just because someone doesn't realize that or sees it in a different way doesn't mean they're scum.

BG - claimed lover. I think she may be scum, but I'm with popular consensus - I really don't think we should lynch her now.

Kmd - I think he's town. Can't be 100% sure of course. But the things he's said seem pretty genuine to me. He seems to be a good scumhunter.

reborn - Claimed inventor. I don't know what to think about Stewie. The role seems fitting for him, but so would SK. Nevertheless I'm more worried about the mafia (the FCC?) than a lone killer, and role speculation alone isn't a good reason for a lynch. I thought he was suspicious, but right now it's just going to manifest itself in an IGMEOY.

kloud - I don't know. He hasn't posted in a while because of RL issues. He was active in pointing fingers at BG. Until he got swamped with school, he was pretty active, and I saw him as pretty town, but I haven't heard anything from him in light of recent events so I have a hard time judging him. Pretty neutral for me atm.

IG - claimed bodyguard. I thought he was scummy, but I believe the claim. I think this character would be in the game. Could Cleveland be scum? Maybe. But IG isn't a prime suspect for me right now.

Llama - claimed random JOAT (voteless for now.) I believe it. I think he is town.

thinktank - I don't know. He's concise, but seems honest. Still, that seems like a pretty good strategy if you're scum. (WIFOM! WIFOM! I know!) Don't get too overblown, but don't spare the daggers. That way you can't get accused of being wishy-washy, soft, or emptily verbose. It seems like an easy way not to fall into your own traps. I don't feel like meta-ing right now, especially since TT isn't one of my prime suspects.

E_K - Leaning on the scummy side now! I was getting a pretty town vibe from her, but her recent actions rub me the wrong way, as I've mentioned.

GW - Leaning on the town side for me. I've never read anything that looked like scum from him, but nobody's exempt, of course.

StD - I am beginning to suspect his good posting might be the cover-up of experienced scum, but again, I'm not 100% sure. He replaced Crub, who FoSed me just for "being difficult." Also leaned town on babygirl, which seems silly. I have a hard time seeing any of her posts as being anything more than neutral at best. But whatever, just because someone has an unpopular opinion doesn't mean they're scum. And most of the real content has come from StD. Now, StD's posts are good and seem honest, but I am very scared of the idea of him being scum, because it seems like he could be getting away with it right under our noses. But that's just me. It's a fallacy to base your suspicions off the person in question's game experience if you don't think he actually posts scummy things. It's enough for my (fearful) eye to be on him as well, not enough for my vote.

I'm going to have to break down everything more, of course, but with the deadline approaching, I'm

voting

for

Elvis_Knits

.

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I have a role idea that I thought was more likely for Cleveland than bodyguard, based on an FG episode I saw, but that's just me. I don't understand the connection between Cleveland and a bodyguard. It might be kind of anti-town for me to share my idea, though, and also pretty baseless and speculative, since it's based on one scene of the show. If you all want to hear it, you'd have to ask.

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Heh. Ok, let me see if I can find the scene on youtube.

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OK, well in my search I didn't find it. I think that Cleveland could be a miller. Maybe that's way out there, but when I first thought of Cleveland's role when goborage and LF's altercation popped the idea of Cleveland into my (obviously gullible) head, I thought of the scene where Joe shows Peter a machine that detains criminals. When Peter goes under it, it says "Warning: suspect" or something and then handcuffs it. But when Cleveland is going to try it, Joe warns him not to, but it's too late. Cleveland goes under it and it beats the crap out of him, saying "Warning: Minority suspect." So it made me think of miller. I dunno. Pretty speculative, like I said.

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EBWOP. *handcuffs HIM

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Yeah, I know, I thought it was pretty iffy myself. But bodyguard? I can't think of any episode. I agree that IG should give us his flavored role name.

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If you find anything, maybe it's better if you let IG say it. Just in case he has nothing and then tries to say, "Oh yeah, what xtoxm said!"

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Also some things about IG seem funny. Like,

If it is was a fake claim then we could have a real Cleveland step up and claim. But other then that I don't see much else to this whole thing. I just want to know if he did claim or not so we can put a rest to it and move on to other avenues of discussion, like this Llama/Xtoxm thing.

OK, whatever. So he was right about the fact that gobo didn't claim Cleveland, and I was wrong. But he doesn't seem adamantly sure that gobo wasn't claiming. He "wanted to know if he did claim" so we could "move on." And this whole "have a real Cleveland step up and claim" thing seems so strange to me. I know that he doesn't want to claim at this moment, but it seems liek a bizarre response to me. I can't really pinpoint why. But if he thinks there's any chance in the world that someone was claiming Cleveland, as he seemingly did, then why didn't he care whether or not someone was claiming HIS character? I mean, imagine if gobo had actually said "Yeah, I'm Cleveland." Would the real Cleveland just say "Oh, that's nice. Thanks for getting this whole thing over with. Let's talk about Llama and Xtoxm now"?

It was a long time ago, and IG obviously didn't believe that gobo was claiming. But the little doubt he seemed to have and the way he didn't seem to care about the idea that gobo might or might not claim seems so odd to me.

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Yeah, I read it again with that perspective in mind, and it seems fair enough. I'm probably just a little disappointed that I wasn't right. But I'll get over it. Still want to hear the flavored role name though. When I try to do research all I find is information about Cleveland's upcoming spin-off show.

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http://familyguy.wikia.com/wiki/Cleveland_Brown

I don't see anything here, and there is a lot of information about him here. But all of this of course means nothing without IG.

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God, this is basically a really painful, drawn-out version of a mass claim. And guess what! I bet everyone's going to claim pro-town! Surprise! Guess there are no scum in this game, case closed.

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It's nothing but a joke, and a frustrated one at that. You're definitely reading too much into it when you say I'm implying that our efforts are futile. But I'm not too shocked that you saw something in it, since you definitely seem to be blowing every little thing I say way out of proportions, like the whole safeclaim bonanza (but interestingly, when xtoxm says a similar thing and reborn says the EXACT same thing I did, it's somehow not as suspicious.) But I've got to get ready to go now. I'll have more content after classes are over today.

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EBWOP

*proportion

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I'll have more content after classes are over today.

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I said I'd post real content today, but I am very sick and I'm going to bed. I am taking some pills that have had a very bad effect on me. I'm going to stop taking them tomorrow, so I should be fine then, promise.

[RestFermata]

This talk of math is silly. Have you ever flipped a coin and gotten heads 4 times in a row? You have to take these coin tosses separately. The 5th toss isn't any more likely to turn up tails than any of the others. It's a different toss.

And in this case it's even less certain than that. When you say someone is 59.374% likely to be scum, that's not even a clean, clear-cut number, no matter how precise you make it sound. It's just your opinion, and a percentage loosely based on that opinion. It is not fact, and it is not math just because you threw some numbers in it. You can shout out probabilities left and right to illustrate your point, but you can't throw them into some sort of algorithm.

[RestFermata]

E_K, if you don't think your points were great, let's hear some great points! I mean, as vanilla town, that's only one of two powers you really have, right? Making great points and voting? Oh, and as you're typing up those great points, I'd also like to hear an answer to that question I asked a while back. No, no, you don't have to look for it. I'll type it up for you, and draw some illustrations. Won't that be nice?

Safe claims are pretty common in a theme game.

I was just in a theme game as scum and we all had safe claims.

Well, we can assume that either scum got safeclaims, or they are safe to claim themself.

Hey, all of this sounds familiar.

Why is it OK for them to talk about safeclaims, but you started proposing a bandwagon on me earlier based solely upon one comment about safeclaims, namely this one?

What is the advantage of breadcrumbing in a theme game, where scum often have safeclaims anyway?

What is the difference between "scum often have safeclaims in a theme game" (me) and "safe claims are pretty common in a theme game" (reborn)?

[RestFermata]

Too bad Crub's not here to FoS me for "being difficult" for that sweetly sarcastic post. Just the kind of humor that E_K seems not to appreciate from me.

[RestFermata]

OK, so Crub Jr.

is

here to FoS me for being difficult.

[RestFermata]

I'm starting to believe that Llama's and reborn's claims don't mix. Pro-town random JOAT, one-shot non-random JOAT. Plus Inventor, which is basically a full-powered JOAT by a different name.

To (roughly) quote Emperor Joseph II,

"Too many JOATs!"

Or something like that.*

*(For those of us who are not classical music buffs/have not watch Amadeus, this is a reference to Joseph II's comment, "Too many notes, my dear Mozart." Lame, yes. Nerdy, yes. Relevant, yes.

Maybe I'm outguessing the mod, but seriously. Too many JOATs. I'm inclined to disbelieve one of them. Namely, reborn, since I could easily see Stewie as SK anyway. Especially when he seemed to be pre-justifying his use of the "Death Ray."

But I want to hear E_K's response before I vote him.

[RestFermata]

I know, I know, but it's so much fun to be difficult, as Crub and Crub Jr. put it! Especially when I've already asked you the question once. But I digress.

I don't think, based on everyone else's posts, that they got the idea of safeclaims from me. Reborn got the idea from a previous game, and Xtoxm got it from Cris' claiming a main character. But whatever. It's a reason, though I think it's a rather silly one.

And voting me for being frustrated at the way the game was going is equally silly. You say I'm anti-scumhunting for what I said. I just don't call this scumhunting. I call this slowly forcing everyone to frantically claim one by one by process of elimination alone.

I still believe that scum has a decent reason to claim vanilla. The fact that anybody clears them based solely upon that proves that scum have a reason to claim vanilla.

But.

I want to put some pressure on reborn. I am really starting to get uneasy about this whole double JOAT thing. The JOAT is a powerful role. Llama's was toned down. reborn's apparently is superpowerful and essential to the town. Unlynchable. Yet the character he claimed has homicidal tendencies and, apparently, so does reborn. Threatening us with the Death Ray and all.

Unvote

Vote: Reborn

[RestFermata]

Wait. He gives these things to other people? That's not what reborn said.

I was considering using the classic Death Ray tonight, for example.

[RestFermata]

Awww, byebye farside You were a hell of a mod. *salute*

I'll be back in 3 days.

[RestFermata]

The villains might not be characters at all, if the flavor text means anything. Sounds like it's the FCC.

[RestFermata]

No, Stewie never killed anyone really, but I could imagine him being SK. The flavor text might describe something that made him particularly upset and homicidal. He is WILLING to kill. Inventor fits, but in my mind, so would SK.

And reborn, do you give these inventions to others, as Llama suggested, or do you use them yourself?

[RestFermata]

Oh, yeah. Just reread it. Guess not. Maybe they're characters from another show or something...

[RestFermata]

EBWOP. Or a group of characters from this one, as you suggested. But somehow the words "this stupid show" sounds like they're from outside the show. Maybe I'm speculating too much -- and I'm definitely not ready to let someone off the hook just because of their character claim.

[RestFermata]

I think I've seen one inventor type role in a theme game when the inventor made up the name of his/her invention. It might've been a one-shot, though, not sure.

[RestFermata]

Yes, it means you're not SK if you successfully do that. You could theoretically still be scum, having your scum partners claim to receive and use your inventions, but at the moment I don't really think so.

Unvote

[RestFermata]

So we just have a vote and the top three candidates get your invention, whatever it may be?

[RestFermata]

EBWOP. I mean, the top candidate gets your device. I don't see why we need three, actually.

[RestFermata]

You mean power roles or any claimed people?

[RestFermata]

I'm down with that list, reborn.

[RestFermata]

OK, Kmd.

[RestFermata]

But he hasn't posted in a couple days...hmm...well, we'll see. I'll change that if he continues to not post.

[RestFermata]

Why did both BG and Rockatansky spell Bonnie's name wrong?

[RestFermata]

You guys are the night-talking lover variant?

[RestFermata]

After rereading the flavor, I think it's not the FCC. But I was considering the idea of characters from another show. South Park and The Simpsons rip on Family Guy a lot. It would seem weird for the flavor if characters from the show would want to shut down the show, therefore terminating their own existence. But it's always possible.

[RestFermata]

Boring criminals, that's what they're called in the flavor text.

[RestFermata]

I don't see any problem in speculation, so long as we don't get too set in our theories and let scum slip through our fingers.

[RestFermata]

1.) There are both pro-town and anti-town reasons for Xtoxm to withhold this information.

2.) Xtoxm claimed the information he felt necessary to claim, not because he was brought to L-1 and the town demanded him to claim, but because his lover partner, BG, screeched out her claim under minimal pressure.

3.) There are both pro-town and anti-town reasons for reborn to push Xtoxm to nameclaim.

4.) Reborn has been consistently analyzing people's claims and asking them to reveal the flavor text of their role.

Therefore, I find this whole thing to be kind of null.

[RestFermata]

No, I would not like to elaborate. Sometimes elaborating helps the scum. If, (and probably when, the way things are going) the lovers are dead, I will then elaborate, because it will be no longer relevant.

Xtoxm, why are you fighting against your wagon so boldly now, when you suggested that your lover pair was the lynch of the day a few pages back? Have you found someone so scummy that you've changed your mind?

[RestFermata]

And half of us have already claimed!

[RestFermata]

Seriously, guys, if the people who seem to be popularly viewed as town are actually town, then at least one of the claimed roles must be LYING!

[RestFermata]

IG, I'm definitely not by any means asking you to copy or even paraphrase the role PM, but is there anything you could relay to us about why Cleveland of all characters is a bodyguard? And do you have any idea why your flavor name is, as you say, "Damn it all"?

[RestFermata]

Well, my flavor text has a few sentences about my character. I was just wondering if maybe his explained the strangeness.

[RestFermata]

OK, fair 'nuff.

[RestFermata]

1.)

Story:

Reborn gives a roleblocking invention to X, who roleblocks Y, possibly another scumbuddy.

Town reason:

Reborn thought X was town, and X thought Y may be scum.

Scum reason:

Pretending to roleblock Y when a NK got through might help clear Y.

If it somehow comes out that this is not true, such as X getting lynched and coming up mafia, it does not necessarily implicate reborn.

2.)

Story:

Reborn gives an alignment-scanning invention to X, who scans Y. Y comes up guilty.

Town reason:

Reborn believes X is town, and X believes Y may be scum.

Scum reason:

Pretending to get a guilty result on Y might get Y lynched, although Y is in fact town. It's a risky move for scum, but not unthinkable.

If Y flips town, this will only implicate X, not necessarily reborn.

3.) Story: Reborn gives an alignment-scanning invention to X, who scans Y. Y comes up innocent.

Town reason:

Reborn believes X is town, and X believes Y may be scum.

Scum reasons:

If Y is actually innocent, and he is later killed and flips town, both reborn and X end up looking very good. However, this is something of a setback because they are narrowing the list of unconfirmed players. If Y is actually guilty, it could be a way of trying to clear a scumbuddy.

If this story later ends up confirmed as a lie, it only implicates X, not necessarily reborn.

And on the list goes.

Every possible story has both town or scum rationales. And NONE of them will directly implicate reborn. Nothing he can do would be "risky" as scum! If he gives his inventions to X and X is scum, it could just mean that he had poor judgment, or that WE had poor judgment and nominated a scum player to be the recipient.

[RestFermata]

Who do you think we should lynch then, Xtoxm?

[RestFermata]

Yeah, Rock, I'm not sure why he claimed either. But Reborn sure seems to love claims, demanding them from Xtoxm and all.

[RestFermata]

No offense taken. But E_K, I just don't understand how it would be "risky" for him to claim he gave the invention to his scumpartner.

(Well, of course it would be risky to say, "I gave the invention to my scumpartner.")

But you know what I mean.

[RestFermata]

I'm afraid he'd not get caught.

[RestFermata]

No, it's more of a one-way thing. If reborn is caught, the other is implicated, but if the other is caught reborn could still conceivably be town and accidentally have given his gadget to scum.

[RestFermata]

Wait, yeah, that's what you just said. *foreheadslap*

[RestFermata]

Yeah, I kind of want to see what happens. Which pisses me off, because if he's scum he's probably sitting there all cozy, feeling nice and unlynchable.

[RestFermata]

OK.

Vote: kloud

Speak.

[RestFermata]

EBWOP. I guess I should put the real name.

Vote: Kloud4390

I want to know what you think about everything and everyone right now.

[RestFermata]

Hey, reborn, please don't give anyone a death ray N1. It's just too easy for that to end up in the wrong hands, or at least with the wrong result.

[RestFermata]

Oh, and reborn, when you put it like that it kind of sounds like "Inventor" is your safeclaim and that's why you couldn't figure out what an Inventor does from your role PM alone...because it doesn't say. So you had to go look it up.

[RestFermata]

Because I'm sick of having my vote nowhere. I think this day is stuck and I'm just trying to stir up some excitement. I never got a scum vibe from Kloud, but a little pressure never hurts.

[RestFermata]

Yes, I think so, because we're in a lull and the deadline's approaching. I feel it'll be a random lynch, therefore probably a mislynch, if someone doesn't "stir up excitement."

[RestFermata]

Same here, I'm really getting behind in my studio because Pender's sold me the wrong volume. So catching up is going to be hellish. But I'll still try to post when I can.

[RestFermata]

OK, I'm here for now. I'm going to read TT's posts in isolation.

[RestFermata]

In-depth analysis on TT:

At the beginning of the game, TT kept his random vote on IG while FoSing others. First he FoSed Xtoxm, apparently for power role speculation. Later, he says to Xtoxm:

Your scum points are starting to add up and soon you'll be able to redeem them for my vote.

Why not redeem them right then? Why is TT supposedly afraid of voting for those whom he finds suspicious? Eventually he realizes his random vote is still on, which he had supposedly forgotten, and removes it.

Well. I was just about to say " wpuldn't be supirsed if Xtoxm was BG's love pair" and look at how that worked out.

Really? He figured that out? Somehow I have a hard time believing that. Of all the connected type roles he thought lovers? I don't know about you guys, but I definitely would think masons before lovers. I'm not sure I believe him. Sounds like it could be an attempt to appear insightful.

Then he FoSed me for talking about safeclaims. Didn't vote, just FoSed. For someone so opinionated, he sure is careful with his vote.

Recently, he has been more willing to vote, yet more unstable idea-wise. His 180 on the lovers issue somehow doesn't surprise me too much, but he himself encourages us to call him on it. Yeah, I think it's high time.

There are some definitely weird things about TT, looking over his posts. I considered him pretty ballsy at first, but looking over him again he just looks kind of wishy washy. I'm not getting a strong scum read on TT. I'm getting a neutral read at best, and a slight scum read at worst. However, even a neutral read is a scum read when everyone else is looking rather town.

So I'm not ashamed to remove and

unvote

my random pressure vote on Kloud and

vote: thinktank

. I think he's scummier than all the other unclaimed people.

[RestFermata]

Oh, I see.

[RestFermata]

Just do what StD mentioned and

Pizza: thinktank

[RestFermata]

Well StD and I prefer all players to have a pizza in the oven at all times.

Unpizza; Pizza: LlamaFluff

[RestFermata]

Sorry, mod.

[RestFermata]

I know, I was imagining pizzaing someone in the face like someone might pie someone in the face. I was just going to Pizza a No Lynch when the ban was instated.

[RestFermata]

No it's not a pro-town thought process, but it's very human.

[RestFermata]

My scumdar doesn't go off the charts when I look at TT. I just think that he is the least townie unclaimed player out there. I think we have a pretty good chance of hitting scum with a TT lynch.

[RestFermata]

If I were Joe, I would have probably acted a little differently after BG claimed Bonnie, half of a lover pair, at least until Xtoxm said definitively that he was not Joe, which would be the expected other half.

[RestFermata]

My pizza is burning......with anticipation.

(I'M SORRY!)

[RestFermata]

And thus onto my argument, as scum I can see he convincingly looking townie. He's not one of the one's i'm finding really town, but I wouldn't be calling him scum, on reads, basically.

That's exactly what I think of him. I'm afraid that if he

is

scum, I'll never be able to pin it for sure because he's such a good player. Unfortunately if he ended up a mislynch it could be a huge loss for the town in brainpower. I don't think an StD lynch is a good idea just yet. It's too much of a shot in the dark.

[RestFermata]

Xtoxm doesn't seem to get the fact that players sometimes disagree with him without being scum.

Reborn, I agree. The scum already know who is not scum with them. So how is confirming a player as town helping the mafia?

[RestFermata]

If LF is going to say who he has confirmed by the end of the day anyway, what's the difference? If it'll happen before night, the scum can NK the cleared person anyway. I just think it'll be easier to figure out who has genuine motives. I really think it could aid in the scumhunting to reveal this information. But whatever. If you guys think it'll help scum somehow, then so be it.

[RestFermata]

These are my thoughts on people now:

Rock - No idea what to think. His flake-out makes it tough. I found BG scummy and I think it's interesting that Xtoxm didn't at all. Another thing I don't understand is that Xtoxm's "pregame talk" with BG somehow ended up convincing him she was town. What could they possibly talk about pregame that could clear anyone? The game hadn't even started yet. I'm not by any means asking him to share what happened if it'd be detrimental to the town somehow, but I really don't understand. Slight scum read

StD - I found his predecessor kind of obnoxious and lurky. StD himself brings up some great points, but somehow it wouldn't surprise me if he were scum or town. I can't think of anything in particular he's said that bothers me, but like I said earlier, he makes me uneasy in general. Neutral read

E_K - I could totally see scum claiming vanilla in this case, especially after so many power roles had already claimed. And if scum do have safeclaims and their safeclaim is vanilla, well, that makes it all the more likely. As long as someone can successfully clear him or herself by claiming vanilla, as E_K has, it's a plausible scum strategy. I don't see a lot of scumminess in her posts lately, but I don't think we should be content to let her off the hook just for claiming vanilla. Slight town read

GW - I always associate Kloud and GW with one another for some reason, probably just because their avatars are similar. I agree with a lot of things that GW says. I have thought he was pretty reasonable throughout the game and will be interested in seeing Llama's case on him. I know saying that I find him town is probably going to make it into LF's "RF is one of GW's scumbuddies" explanation but honestly I've thought of him as one of the most active scumhunters throughout the game. Town read

IG - I believe the bodyguard claim. I didn't like him through most of the game but now I'm not that suspicious of him anymore. Town read

Kloud - Really, really, wordy. Kind of wishy-washy at times, especially with the whole goborage pseudo-claim madness. First he sounded like he agreed with me, then acted like the whole ordeal was ridiculous when it kind of went down the tubes. Still seems to be making a legit effort in my opinion, but I'd say he's probably a little more likely to be scum than GW, whom I CAN'T STOP ASSOCIATING HIM WITH. Slight town read

Kmd - I have had a town read on him throughout the game. I think it's interesting, though, that he thinks I'm scummy even though I am at least partially responsible for getting him the invention he received last night. I mean, I may be spilling wine all over myself right now, but if he knows he's town why on earth would he think scum would not think it was worth it to suggest scum to receive reborn's invention. The possible gain, misleading the entire town for at least a couple of nights, would be just too great to pass on. The only advantage as scum to picking someone I know is town would be to try and clear myself...in the eyes of one person only. It's easy enough to play the fool if the person I picked turns out scum. I don't expect myself to be 100% cleared in his eyes just because of that, but on the scummiest list? I think that's kind of strange. So now instead of a strong town read, it's a slight town read on Kmd.

LF - I believe his claim and think he's town, but a little boisterous and overconfident. He was wrong about "lynch TT scum." (As we all were!) And now he's acting so suspenseful. I would really like to hear his case on GW, StD and I, especially StD since I have such a neutral read on him. Stop driving us mad. If you have a bombshell argument that'd be great because mostly I'm kind of feeling around in the dark in this game. Town read

reborn - I believe the claim and now have a town read on him. I don't really have much else to say. I don't always agree with his playstyle but I don't see it as scummy anymore. Now that I know he isn't SK, I don't see much that pins him as mafia. Town read

Xtoxm - Oh, Xtoxm. I'd say he's the more likely of the lover pair to be town, even though he

is

Herbert. Yuck! He's pretty brash sometimes and changes his mind quite a bit but honestly I think it's genuine. Town read

RF - I don't think I have to reiterate that I'm sure she's town.

So that makes 6 town reads (including myself), 3 slight town reads, 1 neutral read, and 1 slight scum read. That means I am wrong about at least one person whom I have a slight or full town read on. So I suck.

[RestFermata]

I think it's a little odd that LF is specifically noting people he think should not be even looked at. Shouldn't EVERYONE be looked at? Isn't this a game of Mafia, or am I in the wrong place?

[RestFermata]

Well obviously not THAT far, but it almost seems like he's saying "Listen to what *I* have to say. Ignore everything else."

And then he says, "I'll present my awesome case later though "

[RestFermata]

Vote: GhostWriter

IMO Rock and GW are both liars. The way Rock kind of flaked for a while made me think that he might have not participated during night, especially the way farside sounded kind of frustrated reminding people to send in their night actions. But the GW jailkeeping thing makes even more sense. I think they're both equally scummy and would be happy lynching either of them. Since Rock's lover's with Xtoxm, it's GW that has to go in my mind.

[RestFermata]

I thought GW was town, too, but like I said, I had to be wrong about at least one person.

[RestFermata]

What do you guys think about the possibility of Rock failing to send in his night action in time?

[RestFermata]

EBWOP. Especially when Xtoxm says he didn't communicate in the lover thread last night.

[RestFermata]

But then why would BG lie and say she had no other special powers?

I mean, I've heard of lovers having other roles besides essentially vanilla, particularly cop. But it's pretty damning that he claimed the wrong role, and either way it means one of the two, BG or Rock is lying.

[RestFermata]

Do you guys really think that we should say whether or not we could have stopped a NK? If it is necessary I will answer the question but I want more than Xtoxm to ask.

[RestFermata]

But in that case we lose Xtoxm, all-but-confirmed town, to discuss it with us.

[RestFermata]

I just find it highly unlikely that GW was targeted for an NK with all the claimed power roles just sitting there waiting to be slaughtered.

[RestFermata]

That's not what I was referring to, STD. I meant if we lynch Rock today and discuss GW tomorrow, we will lose a pretty much confirmed town presence in the discussion, which is rather valuable. As for revealing, I'll do it when there's a town consensus to do it.

[RestFermata]

I'm definitely not going to cry too much over a Rock lynch (though I'll miss Xtoxm), but I'm not going to make any bones about the fact that I'd prefer a GW one. I'm pretty sure he's scum, and there's less of a catch.

[RestFermata]

STD said we should do it tomorrow, though, Xtoxm.

[RestFermata]

Like I said, I'm going to be pleased with either one, though more pleased with GW. But I'm of course not going to hammer now.

[RestFermata]

Fine. I kind of agree with you.

I did not prevent a NK.

[RestFermata]

Well, I already did it.

[RestFermata]

Is everyone ready for this? Sorry Xtoxm, but you're excluded from that.

I'm sca-yuhd.

[RestFermata]

Jeez.

[RestFermata]

Oh for fuck's sake.

QFT QFT QFT

[RestFermata]

This was frickin' Family Guy for Chrissake! I was having fun. I hope if this game is ruined we get another one.

[RestFermata]

Mod: Save us

[RestFermata]

Yeah, I mean, he could conceivably still be trying to fulfill his Win Condition by lying, but honestly, it doesn't look like it in this circumstance.

[RestFermata]

Is twilight even going to come, though?

^ Wow, this sounds really depressing and emotastically poetic.

[RestFermata]

Yeah, and the town lover would know the other lover was scum.

[RestFermata]

Mod, if this game gets thrown out, please let us discuss the game in-thread afterwards as if it had ended normally.

[RestFermata]

I was talking about if there was a role shuffle, reborn.

[RestFermata]

I second what Kloud said.

[RestFermata]

kloud1516 wrote:
This is what the Spaniards call "el terrible" heh heh

vote kloud

For even thinking about claiming.

LMAO

[RestFermata]

If this game goes down the tubes in the end, I guess we can pizza each other freely.

[RestFermata]

Special delivery for Rockatansky.

[RestFermata]

reborn, reborn. Let yourself go. Free the pizza within.

[RestFermata]

Me, too. Guess I shouldn't have brought up the P word...

[RestFermata]

http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~pizza/pie ... 129332.jpg

Mmmmm, reborn, doesn't this look tasty? It's for you.

[RestFermata]

LOL. It was a website where you could create your own pizza with, as they put it, "unusual" toppings. So I chose kittens. Stewie would probably enjoy something like that, anyway.

[RestFermata]

Hey Xtoxm, what do you see in Rockatansky anyway? I can't believe you would kill yourself over a douchebag like that. Kick him to the curb!

[RestFermata]

Aw. Have a pizza.

http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~pizza/pie ... 029414.jpg

[RestFermata]

Nighty night reborn.

[RestFermata]

I know. But at least I am a good chef.

[RestFermata]

Vote: GhostWriter

Just like I did yesterday. I have a feeling this is probably going to be a pretty short day.

[RestFermata]

As for cases on you, GW, aside from the jailkeeping thing, there's another thing that I think pretty much cinches you as scum:

Scum Rock tried to defend you by claiming "Watcher" and saying that Llama performed no night action the night Llama said he roleblocked you. Sounds like one scumbuddy defending the other to me.

[RestFermata]

He claimed.

[RestFermata]

I will come out and admit I was the one who received the Death Ray from reborn, but I didn't use it because according to farside's PM its function is NOT to kill, but to make whomever I shoot a Super Saint. I didn't think it would benefit the town to do something like that. But reborn is confirmed town in my book because I did receive the death ray and I can't imagine a scum inventor in any game setup. It's just silly.

Time to claim, I guess. I am

Tom Tucker, Newscaster

. Vanilla town.

[RestFermata]

A Super Saint is someone who automatically kills whomever hammers him/her.

I nominate StD.

[RestFermata]

I vote yes on that, Kloud.

[RestFermata]

Interesting how Kloud supposedly picked two now-claimed vanilla townies who have no night actions to follow nights 2 and 3. I shouldn't have claimed before he did, but I didn't know he was going to claim "Stalker."

I could totally imagine Meg being FCC-aligned. Based off the way Bonnie's letter from the FCC sounded, I bet Meg could be pretty easily manipulated, since everyone is pretty much against her on the show.

But yeah, I'd also like to hear from LF.

[RestFermata]

As far as I can find Kloud did not make any commentary during the time between Rock's Watcher claim and his implication of GW and StD as his scumbuddies, to which Kloud reacted very negatively.

[RestFermata]

If reborn gets NK'ed tomorrow night, that plan wouldn't work, Llama.

[RestFermata]

Oh, the invention gets sent anyway even if he dies?

[RestFermata]

Is the math solid? Can we afford to possibly lose another townie?

[RestFermata]

I think at any rate Kloud should test something with the lie detector today. That way if we do go through with your plan, LF, we will have even more information if Kloud is confirmed town.

Maybe everyone can claim that they have a town-aligned role in this game.

And Kloud can test someone he doesn't think is 100% confirmed.

I, RestFermata, have a town-aligned role in this game.

[RestFermata]

We should probably post the sentence anyway, just in case Kloud IS town. But we would have to kill him to know for sure. We should definitely take any "results" he gets with a grain of salt until his alignment is found.

[RestFermata]

Of course I didn't visit anyone. I am vanilla. I claimed it before you claimed you tracked me and I didn't visit anyone. And I already stated that I did not use reborn's Death Ray because I didn't want to make anyone into a Super Saint, a player who automatically kills whoever hammers them. I almost wish I had used it, perhaps on someone extremely unlikely to be lynched, so that I could verify with more certainty whether or not your claim is legit.

[RestFermata]

StD, we will completely disregard the results of Kloud's lie detector unless he ends up confirmed as town. So it's not so much of a charade as you think.

[RestFermata]

But we have no proof that you are town, StD.

[RestFermata]

From your perspective, it will give helpful information, and like I said, I've already done my part.

From my perspective, there's no point. Normally, I'd totally be with you.

Sounds like you think I'm definitely town all of a sudden. Weird...and duly noted.

Anyway, LF, you seem to be the go-to strategy guy. I know you're still feeling a little undecided, but what are you leaning towards for today?

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The only problem I see with that is that I think farside is trying to make reborn's inventions unpredictable. reborn's "Death Ray" turns the target into a Super Saint? His "Satellite Tracking Device" ends up a Lie Detector? Farside doesn't seem to want reborn to be able to control much about what his invention actually does. If reborn sends in "Satellite Tracking Device" again, it might actually be a tracking device this time. If he sends in "Lie Detector" it might...I don't know...turn the target into a bunny rabbit or something.

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Supposing we do this, what do you think reborn should call his invention in order to maximize its chance of being a lie detector?

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I'm a little pessimistic about farside letting reborn make another lie detector, but I can go along with your plan.

Vote: No Lynch

Tonight I should once again disregard the fact that I have a "Death Ray" in my possession, correct?

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Unvote

I'm still not sure whether to go for Kloud or StD. I will be pissed if we don't use all the available resources and end up losing.

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But look at this, Kloud.

All question are answered by this simple statement. "I am a bastard mod"

Farside will not allow us to complete this as planned tonight.

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EBWOP. What I mean is the invention, just like the previous ones, will not do what we want it to.

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No lynch is starting to look pretty good, actually.

I say Kloud should the lie detector TODAY, though, no matter what we do. And if he ends up confirmed town, that's when we take the information from the lie detector into consideration. If Kloud=town means StD=scum, using the lie detector to test StD doesn't make any sense, since we shouldn't consider the information until we're sure Koud is town anyway, thus confirming StD as scum. I think he should test E_K. You guys might consider E_K or me. I've already posted the sentence to be tested.

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Even if we lynch him, though, we will find out his alignment. But the possibly of two more pro-town players dying before tomorrow is leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

I have changed my mind once again.

unvote

Vote: No Lynch

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So is this how it's going to go? I want to make sure we have a solid plan no matter what happens.

--- IF KLOUD IS CONFIRMED AS TOWN ---

STD is confirmed as scum.

Lie detector results on E_K or me are taken. If one of us is found to be scum, the other is found innocent. If one of us is found innocent, the other is scum.

--- IF KLOUD IS CONFIRMED AS SCUM ---

...Then what?

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Yeah I know, that's why we're always saying AT LEAST one of Kloud or StD is scum. I think there is a decent chance that Kloud is scum. If we No Lynch, he will probably then still be alive tomorrow, but we will know he is scum. Unfortunately that will be the

only

thing we know, and we will still have to lynch him AND another scum. Will this negatively affect the numbers game?

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I'm really wobbling back and forth on this, but I'd like to hear what Llama has to say about what we do if Kloud is alive, confirmed scum tomorrow.

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Right now these are (assuming 3 scum as we have pretty much done throughout the entire game) the living players:

Town
Town
Town
Kloud's Scum Partner
Kloud

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Tomorrow, if Kloud is living, confirmed scum, and there is a scum kill in the night, and no kind of vig, we will have:

Town
Town
Kloud's Scum Partner
Kloud

-----

Won't we have already lost?

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(This is of course assuming that Kloud is scum. We can't know that for sure yet, but I think it's the worst case scenario so I have to consider it.)

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EBWOP. Wait a minute. I screwed up. There are 6 people here now, right? So it's not that bad. Disregard everything strategic I just said

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Can we *make* Dragon hammer Kloud?