Mini 619 - Ramen Mafia (Over!)
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
Acting intentionally scummy is never good for the town. It veils the real scum while you attempt to "start discussion" by making the town focus on you.aioqwe wrote:I thought my scuminess would get us out of random voting faster and more people would be questioning >.< Is it just that the two who are giving me beef are the most experienced or the only ones really reading or are they scum trying to build off of anything scummy they see >.< I need some time to process the reactions a bit more >.<
Anyways, I believe that attacking someone overdiceof all things is no reason to put Food up to four votes. If there isn't at least one scum on that wagon, I would be surprised. There is absolutely no reason to be putting that much pressure on someone for using dice. I chose someone because I like the number seven, so are you going to call me scum for that?
Now then, on to the hunting.
MLF -
In my opinion, this is a lousy reason for an FoS. Applying pressure to you when he has two suspects of equal scumminess isn't a cause for alarm. He just picked one of the two. Now then, that said, his reasons for finding you suspicious are flimsy.MLF, post 70 wrote:aioqwe because he has two suspicions that were equal and put one on me without a strong justification that leaned towards me more that his other suspicion
MLF, Post 70 wrote:Windkirby because he put a vote on me with a flimsy justification, and it just looks like a regular bandwagon.
This may warrant anwindkirby, post 55 wrote:I haven't seen any big leads yet, but vote: melikefood. Not crazy about dicing.FoS.
WK, can I ask why you felt it was alright to attack MLF for the same weak reasons that others were already pressuring him for?
Charter- Attacking Darla because she unvoted is... rather weak as well. Unvoting until she can re-read and form her own opinions of what is happening isn't something that warrents a vote. I would like you to explain why you find this scummy.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
I think when the arbitrary voting stage comes to a close, it's okay tocharter wrote:
It was more of her saying that she's not going to be a conservative voter and then immediately unvotes. I dont think liam had any other serious votes, so there wasn't any danger in keeping it on either. At the time, it really jumped out at me. I reread the thread and I should have just seen what she posts next and go from there, but I don't really know why she felt the need to tell us how she would be voting either. I'm going to leave it there until she does give her thoughts.ClockworkRuse wrote:Charter- Attacking Darla because she unvoted is... rather weak as well. Unvoting until she can re-read and form her own opinions of what is happening isn't something that warrents a vote. I would like you to explain why you find this scummy.
unvote. There really isn't anything scummy about taking your random
vote out of the picture while you re-read. I also believe that the fact that she told how how she is going to vote irrelevant. It doesn't matter much and it really doesn't warrant a vote in my eyes. A niceFoSfor you.
WindKirby- Maybe 'attack' wasn't the right word, maybe 'add even more pressure' would have been better.
I would like it very much if someone could please post a nice detailed case against Kiwi. From there, I can begin my hunting.
Things I would like to point out;
I don't think this isFood saying Darla was the first to mention dice when Oman was is fishy. Not sure what it means exactly but weird no one got any suspiscion of Oman out of that, just food. Why did food omit him?toosuspicious. It may warrant paying a little more attention to Food, but it's not really enough to go off of for now. To me, it seems like an honest mistake.
Expect questions after sleep or I see a post with a case on Kiwi, which ever may come first.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
To add, a vote can be used to pressure someone. Scum start to slip when the votes start coming their way, in my opinion.Muerrto wrote:
Ok...I may have unvoted you, but this was a horrible post.aioqwe wrote:Plea does not equate to plea to emotion. Isn't a vote a call to lynch?
You might say it's just pressure, but it's the pressure of being lynched. No matter how you look at it, you're still pushing my lynch.
You're going to make newbies scared to vote someone. A vote is NOT a call to lynch.
Now then, I find it funny that Food or someone of the sort said "Let's look at some of the players that haven't really been talking much" or something of the sort, and I get looked over. XD Nice.
I'm looking around to find some scummy actions, so sit tight and I'll have something for you sometime soon.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
WIFOM. However, I don't believe they are acting anti-town right now. Perhaps a little non pro-town if anything. I don't think they are scum though, not yet at least.Oman wrote:Because its relevant to our relationship as people.
I am informed, about things that aren't alignments in the game. Where, in my banter with Muerrto, do I say anything about alignments that aren't my own.
More to the point, if we were scumbuddies, why the hell would we do this in thread?!
Windkirby, reasons on sthar and Oman would be nice.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
Oman, did you find anything from your gambit or was it a flop?
WK, I'd still love to see where these vibes are coming from.
I'm still here but I'm feeling a bit under the weather, so I'll try to post more later when my head is clear. I'm just making sure I make the 48 hour time-limit right now.
I also think that these 'encoded messages' aren't as big of a deal as everyone is making them out to be. It seems like people are making a mountain of a mole hill with it. But that is just my opinion.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
No, it's not.Oman wrote:Is this neccesary discussion?
Please, stop talking about who he is going to investigate. WK can add to discussionwithoutrevealing who he suspects. I believe it is more beneficial for the town to trust him at this point. I do believe his claim. Actually, I think it's kind of funny. Oh how the tables have turned, WK.
Now then... I'll ask it again. XD
Oman- Do you think your gambit worked well? Did you find anything through it?
Second up on my plate:
Am I the only one who feels this is Food throwing out his line and trying to catch the doctor, if there is one?Food, post 232 wrote:I'm forgetful.
I'm aware we're not supposed to lynch him.
Are we sure there's a Doc?-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
The thing I really don't like about any of this is that you said errm... five minutes earlier and then suddenly you jump out of the shadows and say 'OH CRAP, I'm being wagoned! I CLAIM!'aioqwe wrote:Am I dead?
Good Job killing your nk immune (I dunno if I'm miller >.<) vig.
FoSbut no vote because I'm not risking that.
charter wrote:ARE YOU STILL NOT BUYING THE GET OFF YOUR LAZYASSWAGON?
Eager to lynch aren't we? Pushing for the lynch of the person who is just slightly scummier than you means you get a.... drum roll please.....
FoSfor trying to push suspicion away from yourself.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
That isn't a pro-town advantage at all. A scum directed kill for Kiwi means that a townie would die. Then, if the scum was smart, they would NK to make it seem like Kiwi has lied to us after all. The scum would then push for a lynch on Kiwi once again to get rid of the 'NK Immune Miller Vig' and a threat to them.strife220 wrote:
Could you elaborate on this? You mean if we pick a target for Kiwi to off, and scum overlap the kill? This sounds like a big pro-town advantage, since scum would only do this if we chose a townie for Kiwi to kill. Moreover, in some games if two alignments target the same player for a nightkill, the flavor will say something like "Player XXX, shot and stabbed N1" to indicate he was double-killed.ClockworkRuse wrote:Here's my problem with picking Kiwi's target, just so you all know. Mafia could easily decide to NK to make it seem like he was lying and the the NK immune player out of the game. That would really hurt us. That's why it isn't worth following. It's too easily manipulated.
Expect more later.
Also, I'd like to say that if Creamy Chicken is so popular, why would it be a miller?-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
Here, I'll chart it out.windkirby wrote:I must say I haven't understood CR's last few posts... I don't get the point he's trying to make with the vig-scum-nkill-whatever deal.
But anyway, even if kiwi is lying or is an SK, we might as well save him for a bit later. After all, if he is SK, he's after the mafia, too...
Town - Alright Vig, kill X.
Vig- Okay.
Night comes around.
Vig nk's X
Mafia no kills.
The next day, mafia puts blame onto vig saying he faked claimed to try to get rid of the NK immune vig.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
The mafia would claim that he lied to us and is mafia. Get it? Basically, we can't know if he's conformable or not if the mafia no kill. D=melikefood wrote:Clockwork Ruse wrote: The next day, mafia puts blame onto vig saying he faked claimed to try to get rid of the NK immune vig.
I'm lost here, how would the Vig's claim lose credibility if the mafia makes no kill?
The thing is that this entire situation is way to easy to manipulate. That's the problem I'm trying to point out. In my honest opinion we will eventually have to lynch Kiwi due to that possibility. Right now, we don't have to. Also, if we absolutely need to take someone out to make him prove what he is I'll offer myself up to it. Instead of taking on the the most scummy person in the game, someone like me can be taken out without much loss to the town and he can be confirmed.strife220 wrote:I already addressed this, but I'll do it again. How can mafia not using their nightkill be a bad thing?
What alternative do you suggest - that we just assume Kiwi is telling the truth and keep him around until end-game? Let him vig/SK unclaimed people who have confirmable roles?
But even with that, it's still really easily manipulated.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
Can I ask why you don't like me for the kill tonight?strife220 wrote:
Bolded = mine. Huh? Did I miss something? Did you mean WK (claimed doc)?sthar8 wrote:I currently support a choice between Liam, Oman, and no-kill for you, but if you reason well enough, I could probably accept any kill butClockwork.
Charter, I assume you don't have a claim that is going to reverse the wagon (else you would have done so), but you might as well claim anyway.
If Kiwi is going to make his own decision (which seems to be the guaranteed case), I suggest he keep it to himself, or he says it with enough time left in the day for said NKee to claim.
And WK didn't claim Doc. He claimed Cop.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
I'd like it if we could just use the term night kill for Kiwi from now on. =D Thank you very much. That said...
Wow. That's all I can really say about Oman. I would also like to say, why is the doctor still alive? If I was mafia, that is exactly who I would go after first. I'm going to have to re-read on who claimed doc, but I find that very odd that mafia would leave a claimed doctor alive.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
I'm just curious about all of this. First, your claim saved you from a lynch yesterday and there is no way of knowing if you really are the doc or not. And I don't understand why the mafia would kill Oman instead of going after one of the claimed power roles. It didn't seem like there was any immediate danger from Oman, in my opinion, so why leave both the cop or the doctor alive?charter wrote:
I'm the doctor. Glad to know what you would do if you were mafia. How exactly does that help us and not serve for a whole mess of pointless WIFOM discussion? Also, thanks for bringing attention to me, and ruin my chances of flying under the radar tonight.ClockworkRuse wrote:I'd like it if we could just use the term night kill for Kiwi from now on. =D Thank you very much. That said...
Wow. That's all I can really say about Oman. I would also like to say, why is the doctor still alive? If I was mafia, that is exactly who I would go after first. I'm going to have to re-read on who claimed doc, but I find that very odd that mafia would leave a claimed doctor alive.
It just doesn't make sense to me.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
I don't know, I'm assuming from the information placed before me. Until Kiwi says what he did last night, I am going to assume that the mafia killed Oman.
There is also the possibility that they went after the cop and the doctor protected. But until Kiwi says anything I'm still wondering why doc or cop are alive.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
So instead of waiting for the information that the town needs to know right now, you'd rather get straight into lynching?charter wrote:Since I've grown bored of waiting for Kiwi...
vote clockworkruse
I don't know how you can slip knowing the thinking of scum and expect to get away with it.
mod, is Kiwi about to be modkilled, or are we getting our panties in a bunch for no reason?
I didn't slip at all, it definitely made you worried about something. That is exactly what I was hoping for. Why are you so worried about the possibility I offered if you really are the doctor?
I think it should be obvious that scum would attempt to hit the doctor, then the cop. That gets rid of two major threats to scum and makes it a heck of a lot harder for us. But apparently they didn't do that last night, either because someone false claimed or they were planning on someone looking around and saying what the hell...?
And I'm going to assume that the mafia killed Oman, until Kiwi speaks up. It doesn't make sense for Mafia to not kill but there is the possibility that the doctor saved someone last night. Depending on Kiwi's response, we might have a cleared townie.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
I have no insider knowledge, and to me a vote is a call to lynch. It can be used to place pressure but youcharter wrote:
Yes, my one vote and practically no argument against you is going to lynch you. Where did I say I wanted to lynch you again? I want you to actually explain all your speculating and insider knowledge. I don't need to wait for Kiwi to come to try and figure out why you're so fast to propose all these theories (terrible ones at that, I can explain if anyone wants me to).ClockworkRuse wrote:
So instead of waiting for the information that the town needs to know right now, you'd rather get straight into lynching?charter wrote:Since I've grown bored of waiting for Kiwi...
vote clockworkruse
I don't know how you can slip knowing the thinking of scum and expect to get away with it.
mod, is Kiwi about to be modkilled, or are we getting our panties in a bunch for no reason?
You DID slip, and now you're trying to play it off like it was some plan of yours. Just let the rest of us know when you're done with your speculating and want to try and find some scum, ok?I didn't slip at all, it definitely made you worried about something. That is exactly what I was hoping for. Why are you so worried about the possibility I offered if you really are the doctor?neverasked anything when you placed your vote. So in my eyes, that was a call to lynch me.
I did not slip, even if you don't want to believe, and theseterrible theorieshave got you up in arms about something. So do please explain your reasons why these are terrible theories. Because to me, it looks like you are starting to get worried about something.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
I'm not upset that he's voted for me, I'm just suspicious because to me it seems like he's panicking.Muerrto wrote:Clock: A vote isn't a call to lynch. Also, you seem upset he voted you. Why?
To me, his vote was a call to a lynch or at least a wagon;
If he was attempting to put pressure on me, he would ask questions and attempt to catch me in a lie. Instead he simply says 'Oi! You slipped!' and leaves it at that. There isn't an call for me to explain myself, no questions for me to answer. To me, it doesn't feel like he is trying to pressure me. It feels more like an OMGUS for finding him suspicious.charter wrote:Since I've grown bored of waiting for Kiwi...
vote clockworkruse
I don't know how you can slip knowing the thinking of scum and expect to get away with it.
mod, is Kiwi about to be modkilled, or are we getting our panties in a bunch for no reason?-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
It benefits the town because your claim saved you yesterday but in my experience, a claimed doctor dies the day they claim. It makes no sense that you would still be alive, in my opinion.charter wrote:CWR, you've made four posts, and in the first three you put forth no fewer than three different theories (one is kind of a repeat, so I'd assume that's the one you want the rest of the town to believe).
ClockworkRuse wrote:Wow. That's all I can really say about Oman. I would also like to say, why is the doctor still alive? If I was mafia, that is exactly who I would go after first.ClockworkRuse wrote:There is also the possibility that they went after the cop and the doctor protected.ClockworkRuse wrote:I think it should be obvious that scum would attempt to hit the doctor, then the cop.
I didn't explicitly ask you any questions, it was implied that I wanted you to explain your speculating, and how your speculating benefits the town in any way. Since you need to be spoon fed, Why are you speculating the night actions before Kiwi speaks up? and How does speculating last night's actions benefit the town?ClockworkRuse wrote:It doesn't make sense for Mafia to not kill but there is the possibility that the doctor saved someone last night.
You're right though, I am worrying that we will waste our time with your speculating and end today with the same debacle as yesterday.
Preview - Haha, So I OMGUS voted you after you drop a major scumtell? Yes, OMGUS is the proper term for that type of vote.
I don't think I dropped a major scum tell and I think you are panicking because even though you claimed doctor someone is suspicious of you. And I want to wait for Kiwi to come back and tell us what he did before I move on.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
It means nothing at all. I am not the doctor.melikefood wrote:
I read over this thinking that CR might be the doc, but then Charter claimed doc, so I'm wondering if it means anything.ClockworkRuse wrote:Second upon my plate: (I'm emphasising this because I think it's funny, because he's saying plate and he's quoting me FOOD, that's funny.)
Am I the only one who feels this is Food throwing out his line and trying to catch the doctor, if there is one?Food, post 232 wrote:I'm forgetful.
I'm aware we're not supposed to lynch him.
Are we sure there's a Doc?
Also, what about WindKirby's investigation?
Are we gonna save it for later or something?
Muerrto; I already did say that I didn't slip up. In my eyes, a claimed power role would assume that their shelf-life [ha, get it?] is going to be cut short because the mafiawantsto hit our power roles. So why when I bring that up does charter start to panic like he was?
It looks like we are going to be losing Kiwi. D- Which absolutely sucks.
Mod: Any chance of Kiwi being replaced?-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
I'm not giving scum ideas at all, it's you who seems to think that. And for suggesting simple logic, I'm giving scum ideas? I really wish I was as naive as you. Something is strange about none of the power-roles being hit, and I'm sticking to that. The situation yesterday wascharter wrote:Hah, just looked through CWR's posts yesterday, and he was scheming mafia strategies yesterday as well. I'd say this was the most blatent,
He also had a few more posts giving the mafia ideas on what to do during the night. CWR, why do you spend so much time trying to figure out what the scum will do/give them ideas?ClockworkRuse wrote:
Here, I'll chart it out.windkirby wrote:I must say I haven't understood CR's last few posts... I don't get the point he's trying to make with the vig-scum-nkill-whatever deal.
But anyway, even if kiwi is lying or is an SK, we might as well save him for a bit later. After all, if he is SK, he's after the mafia, too...
Town - Alright Vig, kill X.
Vig- Okay.
Night comes around.
Vig nk's X
Mafia no kills.
The next day, mafia puts blame onto vig saying he faked claimed to try to get rid of the NK immune vig.
I don't buy Muerrto's claim, but his wagon has grown far too quickly. I'd say give WK another night and see if we get a different result. Perhaps he is insane/paranoid. I'm convinced CWR needs to go today before he gives the scum more ideas...waytoo easy for mafia to control and I was trying to warn the town with that.
I agree with Strife that I didn't 'save' anyone from anything and that BB shouldn't be using Oman's logic to defend me. In fact, BB why were you defending me at all? I'm a big boy, I can deal with this poor accusations myself.
All I did yesterday was warn the town that the situation was way too easy to manipulate and that we should not discuss who the so-called Vig was going to kill. I didn't save the town at all with that.
So, BB, for going above and beyond to buddy up to me,FOS.
Now then, can I ask why we aren't lynching Muerrto? With his lynch, we discover if our cop is insane, paranoid, or sane. Information that weneedto know.
As for the role claim issue; I'd like to quote sthar8 for the truth;
[[Excuse the lack of italics, that was just a simple copy and paste from the Topic Review.]]sthar8 wrote:I am strongly opposed to a massclaim.
Any setup info we gain will be limited to pro-town roles, so we won't be able to outguess the mod's balancing strategy effectively. There is a high probability that we have more roles whose effectiveness is limited after a massclaim. In addition, I find it very unlikely that any framers or millers on the town side know that they are framers or millers, so a massclaim doesn't really help us with that situation either. In fact, if we have a pro-town RB or similar who targeted Muerrto, I'd rather that player sit on their thumbs and continue play with the knowledge that they mightbe a framer, rather than potentially outing themselves to the scum.
And how does lynching someone without an investigation result even make sense? It's already been noted that until we have more info on our cop sanity, or can confirm Muerrto's role, our cop is less powerful than he might otherwise be. I doubt that we will be in LYLO tomorrow, so I'd rather have a decreased doubt in our cop, or at the very least be sure that Muerrto isn't scum getting away after being investigated guilty.
Now, Day 3 I might be willing to massclaim, but I don't think we're ready yet.
As for tomorrow's lynch, we don't need to decide today, but it can't hurt to get some input from whoever is going to die tonight. If we spend today discussing tomorrow's lynch, we will be that much closer to sure when it's time to hammer tomorrow.
This is a great post.
The town shouldn't be mass-claiming yet at all, it will only hinder our decisions today. Keep in mind that we will have to deal with false claims and wade through even more lies to when we do mass claim, so lets solve one problem at a time.
Weneedto know the sanity of our cop. If he's insane, then he's still a powerful weapon. But if he turns out to be paranoid then he's just a dull butter knife, hardly useful to us. Can someone please explain how it'snota good idea for us to find the sanity of our cop?
Vote: Muerrto-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
Then you'd better not trust your feelings, because they are dead wrong.charter wrote:I don't think massclaiming is going to out anything else, however I don't think it's going to reveal anything but vanilla townies. On the off chance that we do have more town power, I say we don't mass claim yet.
I get the feeling that CWR knows that Muerrto is town, and is misleadingly trying to convince us to lynch him based solely on WK's result. I've already explained. Lynching Muerrto will only narrow down WK's sanity to sane/insane or paranoid. Until you get a different result there's no way to figure out if he's useful or not. I also don't like his putting forth all these different theories on what could have happened during the night. Other than Muerrto's flimsy claim, and WK's result, I don't see anything else on him. I'm also fairly suspect of WK's claim, I have a hard time believing that we both have a sane cop, and that he is the sane cop.CWR wrote:Now then, can I ask why we aren't lynching Muerrto? With his lynch, we discover if our cop is insane, paranoid, or sane. Information that we need to know.
This makes no sense. Strh8 who said the only thing you saved us from was a pro-town strategy. Clarify?[/quote]ClockworkRuse wrote:I agree with Strife that I didn't 'save' anyone from anything and that BB shouldn't be using Oman's logic to defend me.
I read the wrong name for that post, yes. But I agree that I didn't save the town from anything and that BB should no be using Oman's 'Oh my, he's right!' opinion to save us.
In my opinion, there have only been two people who have looked at what I said yesterday and said 'Wow, that sucked.' Either these two people are very pro-town and pointing out some flaws in my thinking [which I can admit, there are some] or are scum and are trying to discredit me for trying to warn the town of how bad it could have been for us to let the town pick Kiwi's night kill.
Now then, as for the comments toward the lynch of Muerrto. I am still in favor of it. We have to lynch someone today and I still fail to see how lynching Muerrto is a bad play if it can give us information about our cop. A day in advance.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
I would love it if you didn't put words in my mouth. First of all, I never said that Charter should be our lynch today. EVER. In fact, Iknowthat I said I wouldn't be comfortable to lynch a claimed doctor at all. I found it incredibly odd that roles thateven youadmit would be the scums first targets weren't hit last night.
If it's as you say and scum didn't kill the power roles to bring about suspicion then it definitely looks like I fell into that trap. But I'll be damned if he false claimed when, even as you admit, the town seems overpowered. I'm not going to try to outguess the mod saying 'Our cop must be hindered by something!' I am going to be suspicious of these claims.
I am not going to believe a claim until I see proof that claim is real. And unfortunately, our doctor can't prove that in a way that can put the town's doubt at ease.
I agree that I was pretty hasty to just jump into that vote. I certainly need to differentiate the differences between MS and EM. On EM, it would have been a sound strategy to lynch a guilty result. Here, the opposite seems to be true. I was at fault with that line of thinking, more information would be nice. I have a question, but I'll save it for tomorrow's result.strife220 wrote:Our claimed cop has expressed a bit of concern about his own sanity. About a quarter of the players in the game have jumped on the guilty result with complete tunnel-vision.
Unvote-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
On EM, it's not a big deal if you mislynch to figure out the sanity of a cop unless that person is an uncounter-claimed power role. The same can be true for finding a false claimed scum. Here, I mistakenly applied that logic and it simply doesn't work.strife220 wrote:The fact that you spent about 6 posts questioning why scum didn't kill the claimed doctor implies that you think it's because he's lying. Otherwise there is no pro-town reason to discuss it. I think your actions fit the MO of scum who chose not to kill the doc for WIFOM's sake - that is, you kept on bringing up how weird it was in hopes that everyone else would go "hey.. that is weird! lynch the doc!"
In theme games on MS, there's always a little doubt about cop results. That's the point of theme games - there's always a curveball waiting around the corner. That said, cop results are reliable more often than not. It's the way the situation played out as a whole that sits very poorly with me.
You didn't explain your delayed timing on the Muerrto vote. Your first 5 or 6 posts after the guilty result were spent talking about the doc. Then you make a lengthy post about how obvious it was that Muerrto is the right choice.
Moreover, you seem to contradict yourself. Your reason for voting Muerrto is to determine cop sanity. Yet you imply that on EM, you don't question guilty results - which in turn replies that your Muerrto vote is because you assumed he was definitely scum. If you don't see the contradiction here, I'll try harder to explain.
To be quite honest, I wasn't worried about the Muerrto issue right away. I was still looking at the power roles still alive and saying 'What's all this then?'
And as I said before, I never once said 'Let's lynch the doctor!' I said there is something odd here. I was hoping that people would just keep a watchful eye on the doctor to be safe. To be very honest, if anyone had voted for charter because I said I was suspicious of him, I would have attacked that person for voting for the doctor.
I do not want anyone to vote for charter, but I do want people to watch him a little more carefully. I would assume that the townie would watcheveryclaimed power role a little more carefully.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
Of course I have objections and frankly I'm shocked that no one else has any.
That's all I've got to say about that.sthar8 wrote:[quoute="Strife220"]
For face value, Sthar8's logic is pretty solid.
[/quote]
First,
That doesn't change anything and frankly, since you do use good logic I'm wondering why you used that as an defense against my accusation of you outguessing the mod.
Second,
I'm going to be re-reading Strife220 and sthar8 after claims go through or while, apparently it's possible missed some buddy-buddy play.
Third,
Explain why you get to make the list? What makes you clear, to begin with? I'd prefer either WK create a list or we make on randomly with dice. Ido not like[/i] putting that choice in the hands of possible scum.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
^ Fixed.strife220 wrote:EBWOP:
Are you implying that you know there's only 1 vanilla in the game?ClockworkRuse wrote:I am Plain, Dry Ramen which is the actual vanillaflavorof the game.
No, that's how I know that the 'they have roles to claim with sent to them' is unlikely.
Plain, Dry Ramen is the actual vanilla flavor of the game. I'm supposing there are more then one vanilla as it wouldn't make much sense to me to have one vanilla, but at the same time you never know.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
Why is sthar less likely to be scum?windkirby wrote:Fair enough. BB's turn.
Actually, since people seem to want to give me some choice in the order, could we have food go before sthar? The list would then look like
CWR (plain, dry, vanilla)
BB
Darla
Food
sthar8
strife
I just think sthar is less likely to be scum so he should go further down on the list.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
Not at all in fact, I was all for claiming today and I'm fine with claiming.charter wrote:CWR, I don't understand why you would have a problem with the order, I assume it was because you were going first?
I guess I'll just wait for the rest of the massclaim before posting my thoughts.
I actually started thinking that I should have faked the vanilla flavor and try to catch scum copying it.
I have a problem with the order because I am suspicious of everyone who isn't cleared. And someone who isn't cleared made it. I don't feel comfortable giving possible scumanychance to manipulate the town. Do you?
My question still stands for WK, why is sthar more likely to be town the rest of us?-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
Hence why I didn't do it.strife220 wrote:Lying about your role is a great way to get yourself lynched. Very dangerous unless the plan is near bullet-proof and town will understand.
I was thinking that the next time this situation arises that I could try to add the rule that if you are going to CC to have to counter claimer say 'I counter-claim, repost your flavor/role' without adding what the real flavor is or anything of the sort.
Thinking about it later, it's a flawed and easy for scum to control which is never good.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
I don't understand what possible advantage I could have from mistaking your names. Most of the time, it's just a misread and me failing to check my posts. If you'll notice, I often fix that mistake when I make.sthar8 wrote:Clockwork:
This was my way of saying "I told you so, and you should have gone with the logic" to strife. This should have been obvious since his next line from that post basically says "but I think we should ignore the logic here and go with gut."sthar8 wrote:Strife220 wrote:
For face value, Sthar8's logic is pretty solid.
That's all I've got to say about that.
Second, strife was the one speculating about fake claims, and trying to outguess the mod. In fact, I've raised that as a point against him already, so I think you can see what my stance is on the subject. I have not defended against any accusations from you, mostly because you haven't made any against me. In fact, the reason you might see buddying between strife and I is that you'verepeatedly misattributed my statements to him throughout this game. I wonder if you hope to gain some kind of advantage from this, or if you need to be reading a little more closely, as the last time I consistently agreed with strife was on Day 1, and even that was not across the board (for example, our opinions on Oman were markedly different).
I'll force myself to make sure that I don't mix the two of you up from now on.
I don't like this post at all. Explain to me how it isn't to the benefit of the town to all assume that the scum are going to try to manipulate us and work in ways that it isn't possible to do that.sthar8 wrote: Third, Iproposeda list, then asked for discussion on it. If anyone had proposed any changes, we could have agreed on them, but it seems everyone liked my first draft. Your suggestion that scum would be able to manipulate the list to some form of advantage is insulting to the town, since scum are a small minority at this point. I'd rather assume that at leastsomeof the pro-town players have brainssomewhereinside their skulls. If the scum are as good and the town are as stupid as you're trying to make them out to be, then we've already lost this game.
[quote="sthar8"
I am not cleared, and have never claimed to be cleared. In fact, as of this post we have only two cleared players: Oman and Liam. Being confirmed is not a prerequisite for acceptance of any argument or claim. The standard we use is logical validity and soundness or cogency, because even a confirmed pro-town player can propose arguments with horrible, fatal flaws, as I believe to be the case with strife's thoughts yesterday.[/quote]
Completely agreed, hence why my argument about you picking the list was that you weren't cleared.
Alright, I like this reasoning. I just don't like how the entire town didn't take much time to question anything about the list. Isthar8 wrote: My intent behind the list was to take into account soft-claims and scumminess to create an order that was dangerous for false claims. This isimpossiblewith dice, and I've stated repeatedly that we should try to get as much benefit from the massclaim as possible.
For example, strife soft-claimed first. This suggests to me that he has a roleclaim ready, since he could have been forced to claim right away because of his risky (and poorly reasoned) move. If he's scum, having him claim last maximizes the chances that his claim of choice will be taken already, forcing him to counter, or lose the benefit of any breadcrumbing he's done and make up a new claim on the spot. If he counters, we can test the powers or lynch the scummiest one, and if he makes up a new claim it will not be as thought out as his original, which leaves more room for scummy errors.hateleaving any possibility of manipulation.
If you'll read back, you'll notice that I didn't even pay much attention to the claim at all as I was still wondering why the doctor was still alive, if you recall. I admit that I should have counter claimed that role however, it's unlikely that I'm the only Vanilla Townie here. So I'm not the only one who made the mistake.sthar8 wrote: Finally, what you're saying with your claim is that you could have countered Muerrto on flavor and chose not to? That's two people who just chose to let Muerrto off the hook with a claim they knew was false (points to BB for stating strong suspicions and lynch preference, even after he had unvoted, though).
I don't feel that this vote isn't justified. You have some good points about me and I've been having some really bad play here. But tell me this, if my claim stands to be true are you going to leave your vote on me?sthar8 wrote: Your play over the course of the last two days has served only the goal of attempting to confuse and scare the town. In addition you dropped your Muerrto vote as soon as it looked like others might be unwilling to lynch him, without giving any reasoning other than "if you guys don't want to lynch him, I won't vote for him." I'm happy with you at the top of my scumlist.Vote: ClockworkRuseNote that I do not advocate lynching until after the claims have been completed an analyzed fully.
And for the record, I didn't just say 'If you guys don't want to lynch him..." I did unvote because I saw your reasoning and weighed it against my own. Guess who's made more sense when I sat there and thought about it?-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
Plain, Dry Ramen is the Vanilla Townie role of the game, not Chicken. [As BB just showed you.]strife220 wrote:Sthar8: You say you placed me last because I was the first to soft-claim. However, BB soft-claimed second and Food soft-claim third. Why did you put BB second on the list to claim?
I don't think CWR is claiming a role that should have known Muerrto's claim was a lie. I think he's just doing a poor job of saying that he's vanilla... or something.
WR? I and apparently others are still confused about this:
Saying dry is the Actual vanilla flavor implies that Chicken cannot possibly be another vanilla role. Please clarify, and tell us what your own role led you to think about Muerrto's claim.CWR wrote:I am Plain, Dry Ramen which is the actual vanilla flavor of the game.
I should have counter-claimed him but as you'll notice I didn't. Please see the responses to that in the above post.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
Another case of mistaken identity. God it's been a long day. D:sthar8 wrote:BB: Thank you. It's kind of funny that you jailed me, for reasons that I will explain when I claim. I'm a he, by the way
CWR: I don't know what advantage that could have, either. Besides claiming that we are buddying up by misattributing a consistent statement by me to him, and using that to show that we are in agreement.
Weshouldassume that the scum are trying to trip us up, but it seems like you are saying that we shouldn't eventryto reach majority consensus on any point because one or two playersmightbe trying to convince us to do something that is anti-town. I think that if we all look for scummy actions, we can figure out which courses are anti-town. If we find someone trying to push something like that, we lynch them and solve all our problems.
Again, I didn'tpickthe list, Iproposedit. Important distinction. If you don't like how little the town discussed the list, you should have said "We should discuss this list further," not "Guys he's not confirmed don't listen to anything he says!" One of those is pro-town.
Regarding your unvote, you weighed my argumentsforMuerrto's lynch against your argumentsforMuerrto's lynch, and decided to unvote?
And as for my vote, we have a lot of day left and quite a few more claims to see.
Darla: Your turn.
IIRC, you were pushing for Muerrto's lynch and... Strife and Charter we're attacking me over the same thing.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
And I've explained that before.strife220 wrote:Ugh... I just deleted the lengthy post I just wrote.
Very interested to hear Sthar8 roleclaim. If BB is telling the truth, it's highly likely that there was no kill last night because Sthar8 was in jail. More on this after roleclaims.
@BB: Sorry if I missed it, but you didn't seem to explain why you didn't counterclaim Muerrto. Also, you don't seem to be suspicious of Sthar8 even though you jailed him and no kill went off. If you're town, doesn't the most likely situation put him as scum?
@CWR: I'll explain why I liked Sthar8's ordering after claims are done.
On a similar note:
Bolded to highlight the confusing part. You don't seem to get it CWR. Saying you're THE vanilla role implies that nobody else can possibly be vanilla.ClockworkRuse wrote:Plain, Dry Ramen istheVanilla Townie role of the game, not Chicken.
Sthar8 said it, but I'll repeat.Darla, you're up on claim. Bolded out of impatience.
I was saying thatChickenis not the vanilla role and that PDR is. [It's a bit easier to call it that.]
I would assume that I'm not the only PDR, honestly.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
She's claiming vanilla, I believe.strife220 wrote:
I'm confused. I don't see a claim hereDarlaBlueEyes wrote:Right well I can confirm Clock's claim now that Plain Dry Ramen is indeed the vanilla flavor.
I have nothing to report thusly.
I am a tad confused on BB's role but I've never seen the Jailkeep role, will wiki it now
next?-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
I can test her claim if you want. There is a sentence in my Role PM I've been thinking of using to test claims like this with.strife220 wrote:... Darla's claiming to be plain dry raman, the same as CWR?
I think BB and Darla are the last two scum.
@Darla, according to your pm; who/what doesn't like you, apparently?-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
If anything, it'll prove her innocence to me.sthar8 wrote:Excellent. Food, was your puzzle based on your intent to claim cryptographically, or does it have some other significance to your role?
Time for my claim:
I am Shrimp Ramen
I am a Bulletproof Townie. The flavor justification is that I can breathe underwater, so every night I go to my secret undersea hiding place, where I cannot be shot at or raped.
Thus, I am the person who needed BB's protectionleast, since I was already safe. I dropped several power role tells on Day 1 in order to attract nightkills, but all the roles I breadcrumbed were forced to claim immediately after I had done so. This also explains why I was so strongly against the claim, as my role is now useless. I was hoping that after scum ran down the list of claimed power, they would target strongly pro-town players, which I have attempted to be to the best of my ability.
This also may explain why there were no kills last night: at least 1/3 of the town couldn't be nk'd
I'm slightly less suspicious of CWR with a second vanilla having the same flavor, but it doesn't warrant the removal of my vote, yet. I'm more suspicious of BB than I was, partly because we know scum has a RB.
CWR: I'm not sure the test will prove anything.
Darla: Why didn't you counter-claim Muerrto?
strife and Food: are you explicitly confirmed?-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
It isn't a hard question to answer and if she gets it wrong, it won't necessarily mean that she's guilty.sthar8 wrote:CWR: It could prove her innocence, but I'm not sure that an incorrect result will prove her guilt. Sorry, I should have been clearer.
However, to me it would mean that we should keep a closer eye on her.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
Vote: Darla
I figured that you would use that as you last resort defense. If you really did delete your pm, then I suggest that you always keep your Role PM.
The answer to the question really isn't that important anymore but if anyone wants to ask me to answer it go ahead.
Charter, has my claim made you feel that I'm more town? I understand that you still suspect me, and to be honest, I expect it and am VERY glad that you still do. That is a plus in my book for you being pro town as you should always suspect people regardless of claim, but is it more suspicion, less, or the same?
BB, I don't like any post that says 'I think XXXX is town.' To me, it's buddying and honestly, I find your claim a little unbelievable. Here's why;
First, everyone look at Kiwi's role.Creamy Chicken.I don't think the mod would use the role name Chicken twice in this game. Notice how even the masons had different roles. In fact, after this massclaim I am almost absolutely certain that each player had a different role in this game.
Second, the method doesn't make much sense at all. When the method is compared to everyone else, Creamy Chicken 'creamed people', Shrimp can hide underwater, Oriental Ramen is highly intelligent. You get eaten. I would like everyone to make note the difference between the flavors here.
We are playing as these 'Ramen' noodles. However, each noodle is presented as if we are that bunch of noodles and that we are trained or have special abilities. Apparently people eat you, which doesn't fit into the flavoring style at all.
As for why we have individual roles,everyone read your role PMs. It doesn't seem like it gives the possibility of anyone else having the same role, in my opinion. The sentence that BBM doesn't like me makes me think that. [This is also the answer to that question before.]
So in conclusion, I'm in favor of a Darla and BB scum team.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
Food is Spicy Chicken? Then excuse that point, as it is obviously wrong.strife220 wrote: @CWR: I obviously agree with the Darla BB scum-team, but I don't udnerstand your first point. Kiwi's role is Creamy Chicken, so BB can't be plain chicken? Food is Spicy Chicken. Just because they have the same word doesn't mean they're the same role.
However, do you agree that the flavor of his claim seems to be off?-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
I'm not saying that it's a major strike, but it seems like FlameAxe has been pretty consistent that we actually use our powers and that our role name is just to add a little bit of flavoring. To me, it just doesn't add up.strife220 wrote:BB is chicken and is therefore the jailkeeper? Or that others 'use' their ramen powers while BB gets eaten himself?
It's certainly weird, but I don't think it should be used as a major strike against him. It's pretty hard for a mod to pick completely logical names for all their roles, and some games I've been in the connection between flavor and ability have been essentially nil. Food and I learned to communicate using our 'spicy powers.'
I think the much bigger issue here is the convenience of his claim (especially jailing sthar8), his lack of counter-claiming Muerrto, and the bumbling soft-claim that in no way matched 'jailkeeper.' He fits a scum profile very well.
And obviously, I agree with you that the timing and way that he claimed is strange.
And I've been wondering why it would have been dangerous to false-claim my name but not my role, to try to catch scum copying me. Would I be lynched if I called that person out? To me, it seems like a pretty pro-town reason to lie.-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
No, I have no idea why people keep doing that. It is kind of funny though.strife220 wrote:
Are mine and Sthar8's names/avatars really That similar?charter wrote:@strife, Flameaxe is V/LA for a while so I don't know when we're going to get a votecount or end of the day.
Your logic on who is scum depending on what Darla flips is backwards. If Darla flips town, that means CWR is either definitely town, or has a copy of the plain, dry ramen role-PM-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA
-
-
ClockworkRuse Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: June 12, 2008
- Location: Here, Somewhere USA