Mini 622 - Mind Screw Mafia - Das ist alles!

[Battousai]

Before I place my vote, question to everybody- Did you recieve a rule in your pm? A yes or no, you do not have to say it... yet.

[Battousai]

EBWOP: I did.

[Battousai]

I don't think I'm allowed to tell you the rule, as it's a special ability my role has, I think. But if I die, the rule will not change (to give you a hint, it's not really a rule as you cannot be in fraction of it. It's more like an extra information). I could explain it in two words, but I would prefer that everyone answer my question first.

[Battousai]

Actually, I think your question wasn't actually a paraphrase as it violated the quoted rule in post 19

[Battousai]

Iamausername is a double voter?, and you have to unvote to revote.

Or there's a 13th player we don't know about
Or at least one person can vote silently

[Battousai]

EBWOP:


remussaidow- voted yos2
iamausername- voted battousai
yos- fos korts
korts- fos yos
mafiaSSK- vote yos
korts- fos MssK

iamausername voted me, but didn't count, went to jenter?
mafiaSSK or remussaidow vote didn't count, went to jenter?

Korts (0)
Battousai (0) - iamausername
Jenter Brolincani (2)
remussaidow (0)
MafiaSSK (0)
Musher333 (0)
Macavenger (0)
Cavebear with a toothache (0)
Jex (0)
Nocmen (0)
Yosarian2 (1) - remussaidow, MafiaSSK
iamausername (0)

Not Voting (9): Korts, Battousai, Jenter Brolincani, remussaidow, MafiaSSK, Musher333, Macavenger, Cavebear with a toothache, Jex, Nocmen, Yosarian2, iamausername

Votes required to lynch: ???

FoS Count:

Korts (1) - Yosarian2
Battousai (0)
Jenter Brolincani (0)
remussaidow (0)
MafiaSSK (1) - Korts
Musher333 (0)
Macavenger (0)
Cavebear with a toothache (0)
Jex (0)
Nocmen (0)
Yosarian2 (1) - Korts
iamausername (0)



remussaidow- voted yos2
iamausername- voted jenter
yos- fos korts
korts- fos yos
mafiaSSK- vote yos
korts- fos MssK


only difference iamausername unvoted, voted jenter. result musher333 1 vote, yas lost 1 vote

Korts (0)
Battousai (0)
Jenter Brolincani (2) - iamausername
remussaidow (0)
MafiaSSK (0)
Musher333 (1)
Macavenger (0)
Cavebear with a toothache (0)
Jex (0)
Nocmen (0)
Yosarian2 (0) - remussaidow, MafiaSSK
iamausername (0)

Not Voting (9): Korts, Battousai, Jenter Brolincani, remussaidow, MafiaSSK, Musher333, Macavenger, Cavebear with a toothache, Jex, Nocmen, Yosarian2, iamausername

Votes required to lynch: ???

FoS Count:

Korts (1) - Yosarian2
Battousai (0)
Jenter Brolincani (0)
remussaidow (0)
MafiaSSK (1) - Korts
Musher333 (0)
Macavenger (0)
Cavebear with a toothache (0)
Jex (0)
Nocmen (0)
Yosarian2 (1) - Korts
iamausername (0)


Yas, you didn't answer my question. Do you have a mod rule in your pm?

[Battousai]

Since my role told me I could that the mod is a player, I want to see what happens when I

Vote:Tar

[Battousai]

I was just curious if anyone else got a piece of info like I did. I like it when I'm special .

[Battousai]

Watch it be an automatic win for the mod and an auto lose for everyone else.

[Battousai]

Ya, the rule was that the mod is a player. It was on the piece of paper the cat gave me.

Mac: What Korts did isn't scummy enough to place a vote, IMO. His question and answers to it, wouldn't help him fakeclaim later. Just as mine wouldn't either, because it seemed I was the only one who got this and if all the townies did and I was scum, how would I know about it?

[Battousai]

EBWOP:

Unvote

, wanted to see if a vote would go straight to Tar or not.

[Battousai]

I'm pretty sure the theme isn't entirely sci fi as my role branches from other genres.

Remussaidow- why did you defend MafiaSSK in post 130? I would like to see Mafia defend that quote iamausername brought up.

[Battousai]

Agreed (with Mac)

Vote:Korts

[Battousai]

Why is it opportunism if I agree with someone on someone else's scumminess? Why can't we share the same opinion on it, do I have to find something else to vote mafiaSSK on?

[Battousai]

Korts: IF you're right, so it's just a theory you have and not based on your role PM?

[Battousai]

I think the quotes can help us, or hurt us, because they seem to be in reference to everyone's roles. For example, there was a Matrix quote talking about Agent Smith, so there might be an Agent Smith among us. If we keep track of all of these quotes, then it *may* be possible to deduce the amount of scum or something like that.

[Battousai]

Well I think it's safe to assume Agent Smith would probably be mafia, no? Maybe we all should name claim, and then when Korts investigates anyone we will know if they lied. Of course, we probably won't be able to tell alignment from a name claim alone in most cases, but as I said I'm pretty sure an Agent Smith, or a Scar (Lion King) we could make a very educated guess. What does everybody think?

[Battousai]

I don't agree with Mac's speculation that Yos is probably town. I don't want to take the chance that Yos might actually be scum/ third party. Jenter could have went after a protected role or something that deflects the night action or attack back at the attacker. Now I don't know what role that could be, but I wouldn't mark Yos as probable town.

[Battousai]

No, I just wanted everyone to not mark you as town yet. Hell, when I mentioned a deflective type role I didn't even say who it could be as it could have been anyone in the game.

Mac: deflective role would mean that he was also killed by his own hands along with your theory. If your theory is correct (he targeted Yos) then that only means Yos is not in the same mafia family as Jenter.

[Battousai]

I'm not trying to discuss the setup, I'm trying to defend my action of pointing out that Yos can still be scum.

[Battousai]

Hypothetically. I just don't want anyone mistakenly thinking your certain town or using that to cloud their judgement.

[Battousai]

Typically, on D2 I would look over the posts of the person who was killed and see who would target them. But in this case the person who was probably supposed to be dead is alive, and everyone who would target them is already dead. So I think Yos was picked because he seemed the most protown (against roleclaims and the likes). That's the only thing I see from that.

Iamausername: What do you mean rule 29 would verify you?

[Battousai]

Ok, just wanted to make sure you didn't say this to prove your towniness (and to help pass the mod review ).

Tar: Is it against the rules to state your character name?

Role name is the one and only part of the role PM that may be directly quoted. - Tar

If not, then I think we should have a mass name claim. Now I know some of you have stated that you don't like it, but I feel it could help us later rather than help the scum. If your against it, state your reason why and if your for it just say you are (majority yes then I say we do it, and vice versa.)

[Battousai]

yes, but look at the number beside Jex's name. It's 0, while MafiaSSK has a 2 next to his name. MafiaSSK also has a 2 names besides him, but that's because those 2 people are voting for me.

[Battousai]

The reason I proclaimed the mass role name claim is because that is the only part of the role pm that may be quoted. Now personally, there isn't much use for the mass claim right now, but I was mainly reaction fishing. I wanted to see if anyone would actually ask me why I think it's a good idea. No one really did for awhile, and I don't think there are 3 MORE scum (at least 3 people didn't ask me why). So I'll go with a second reaction that I found. I didn't expect to be voted right away, let alone a bandwagon would form. The person I found suspicious was remussaidow. Mac and cavebear both voted me also, but their votes, to me, didn't seem scummy. Cavebear voted first to note that what I did seemed scummy, fair enough. Mac did the same thing, but he also added in for the moment. That seemed like he was going to let me explain myself when I get back on and/or that he wasn't all that sure of how scummy I was. Then there is remussaidow. His vote seemed different. He put me at half majority for that one remark. His vote seemed like a bandwagon vote, since 2 people had already back to back voted me. To me that seems like he placed his vote thinking that others would vote me right away or that I would be lynched soon. His reasoning seemed accusatory, like he actually thinks I'm scum just as much as iamausername thinks mafiaSSK is scum.

[Battousai]

Vote: Jex

Last game I was in with MafiaSSK, he was very quite and not contributing to the point of lurking. Upon being fronted with this he came up with the Lurk Strategy in which protown players don't bring attention to lurkers until close to deadline and scum bring them out early as they are easy lynches/ distractionary. He was killed and he was scum. If he's trying the same strategy, I think there is an equal chance of him being scum.

Jex hasn't been that active also (When I think about the game without rereading, I don't remember much content from him.).

FoS: Jex

[Battousai]

cavebear: the game was 20 pages long I think, but all you would have to do is display all posts by mafiassk newest first at the bottom of the page. The game was Akatsuki mafia, link should be in his profile.

Mac: Why do you think I'm more town now than I was previously?

[Battousai]

You just roleclaimed MafiaSSK, and are now a target of the scum if you yourself are not scum. You could have EASILY avoided it by posting content or at least a player anaysis for the top 3 players you find scummy (if you don't find anyone scummy, a game analysis).

[Battousai]

iamausername- yes, I would rather see MafiaSSK CONTRIBUTE instead of claim right now. He can claim later if he wants, but I think contributing would be better for the town.

[Battousai]

FOS: Cavebear

I thought FOS's didn't fall under the same category as the vote count ( I FoS'd Jex earlier and MafiaSSK recieved a FoS I think)

Iamausername, why do you want MafiaSSK to claim so bad? All he has to say is vanilla townie and we gather no information and MafiaSSK would continue to not contribute.

[Battousai]

Iamausername: MafiaSSK's soft claim was this, "If I roleclaimed you'd understand a lot why you shouldn't lynch me. " To me this said that he had a power role, BUT it could also mean that we shouldn't lynch him because he is protown. My second quote in post 302 was meant for the later. How you see it as scummy is beyond me. That and the fact that I don't want people to automatically assume Yos is protown makes me scummy is also over my head here.

MafiaSSK: Does this mean you will continue to not contribute?

[Battousai]

The scum would not know his powers, thus a fake softclaim would lead them into NK'ng him (which makes him a target). If you take MafiaSSK's playing style for this game (hasn't contributed much) it makes it a possibility that softclaiming was his way to continue to not contribute even though he did not have a powerrole.

[Battousai]

UNVOTE, VOTE: Tar

. I want to see if Tar is still a player since Korts is dead.

[Battousai]

UNVOTE, UNFOS

I would ask people to unvote MafiaSSK for right now. The reason being, I don't see

Tar

, a mod making a mafia member easier to lynch. But I can see a reviver type role needing less to be voted for if outed or something like that.

It's interesting that either Tar has messed up the FOS count, changed it, or that Jex can't be FOS'd (I tried FOSing him directly and through Cavebear).

Post numbers of the FoS'es, please? - Tar

[Battousai]

NVM Tar, I got confused because I keep forgetting to UNFOS people.

Mac: I don't think scum would intentionally lower the amount of votes needed to lynch their own. I also don't see a protown player doing that as well. I also don't see a mod lowering the amount of votes needed to lynch scum. Also, MafiaSSK was at L-1 and I do not think he needs to be that close to a lynch.

"There is a clear provision in the rules that could apply to any player becoming easier to lynch. "

Which rule? I just looked at them and I did not see any rule that states that a player who does xxx will need less votes to be lynched or any of the sort.

[Battousai]

O, ok. I guess my reasoning for trying to get someone to unvote him is no longer justified to me. So I guess I'll take that back, but I would prefer if he would not get to L-1.

[Battousai]

Vote: Musher333

, I don't like your recent posts. Your contradictions for my posts are poor, case is bad. You then switch back to MafiaSSK, which to me looks like you're voting him because there's a wagon on him now (as I don't know why you unvoted him in the first place that could later be dropped to later let you vote him)

[Battousai]

This game is making me mad...., I thought voting musher votes iamausername. Who do I vote for that....

[Battousai]

UNVOTE, VOTE: Jex

You were given plenty of chances...

[Battousai]

Jenter probably did kill himself, but I think Mac also targeted him that night. With MafiaSSK, I don't think an outside role can change people's alignment, only his when he get's lynched (thus we still have the same amount of scum to hunt as before). The scum wouldn't know this, so people who voted/campaigned for his lynch can be scum.

I'll post more later...

[Battousai]

FOS: grimmy

, what you call would only help Yos's accuser, not Yos himself.

Mod:

can we get some prods out to iamausername, nocmen, cavebear?

Day's only been up two days. I'll PM them reminding them that day has started and prod them on Sunday if they haven't posted by then. -Tar

[Battousai]

I really don't see your concern here iamausername. A single survivor isn't a faction, so we can still win if he wins. It wouldn't make sense if the town lost if Yos lived to day 3, as the game would be pretty difficult to win as town.

Ok, if iamausername's win condition is to kill Yos, and Yos is to survive to day 3, then that means 2* of the 5 other players are scum.... I'm going to do a reread of a few players and post what I find.

[Battousai]

The only thing I can guess from Iamausername's role, is that he has special knowledge of something, like I did (mod is a player). Now that doesn't mean he's a lyncher or scum, but it also doesn't mean he isn't.

Cavebear, what are you leaning towards concerning iamausername? Scum, lyncher, or protown?

[Battousai]

2 as in a guess at how many scum are left. Typically in minis it's 3, but with a role like MafiaSSK's it might be 2.

[Battousai]

I honestly do not think we should lynch either iamausername or yos until at least tomorrow. If yos is still around, then he lied. If iamausername is a lyncher of sorts and Yos isn't lieing, then iamausername will lose or might become one of the town.

Vote:Iamausername (remussaidow)

, to get him more active plus if we take out Yos and Iam from the lynching possibility today he is at the top of my list for scumminess.

[Battousai]

No, voting Iam puts votes on you. Voting Jex puts votes on me.... The list that depicts who votes who is on the first page, not the vote count.

[Battousai]

This is a stupid argument, just look at the vote count. You have a vote on nocmen right now....

Rule 20 says player list, not vote count. Two different lists.

[Battousai]

I wondered when you would ask me that. Note that I never explicitly said you were scum, but were at the top of my list (minus Yos/Iam).

Here is the reason I have you at the top of my list:

Ok, just wanted to make sure you didn't say this to prove your towniness (and to help pass the mod review ).

Tar: Is it against the rules to state your character name?

Role name is the one and only part of the role PM that may be directly quoted. - Tar

If not, then I think we should have a mass name claim. Now I know some of you have stated that you don't like it, but I feel it could help us later rather than help the scum. If your against it, state your reason why and if your for it just say you are (majority yes then I say we do it, and vice versa.)

I suggested this, trying to get some reactions. The main reaction worth noteing was yours:

vote: mafiaSSK

(batt)

I'm against the mass claim because scum could have fake claims, and then that leaves the scum with far far more info than the town. That's just not really terribly sensible, and it seems to me like you might be trying to dig for info, especially seeing as Jenter's role had a little bit of game flavor in it- as someone pointed out that the rules to the game that he was from were to be kept hidden, and poof, now that he's dead, no longer hidden.

The reason being "His vote seemed different. He put me at half majority for that one remark. His vote seemed like a bandwagon vote, since 2 people had already back to back voted me. To me that seems like he placed his vote thinking that others would vote me right away or that I would be lynched soon. His reasoning seemed accusatory, like he actually thinks I'm scum just as much as iamausername thinks mafiaSSK is scum."

Also, earlier you posted these contradictory (to your above quote) statements:

well, that does seem to lend credence to the idea that role names have a significance, doesn't it?

I'm just saying it might be useful. not def will be, but might be.

[Battousai]

Tar just messed up, he has you not voting AND voting.

This confusion brought to you courtesy of your mod screwing up the vote count. Again and again and again (please note the italics at the bottom of the count). - Tar

[Battousai]

Tar: Why did you say that, you just jinxed us



Now on to the game.

Vote: Iamausername (Grimmy)

. You seem to basing you, and rem, vote solely on the fact that Iam was paranoid over the win condition in the townie PM. Your vote, however, seems different. I don't know what it is, maybe its that your not really pressing on him that much or that you unvoted him then revoted him after post 440 where I got no scum vibes from.

[Battousai]

I miss Mac, he kept the discussion up.

Grimmy, don't you think Iam's behaviour could be associated with a townie who was paranoid over the word factions and yos being a survivor?

[Battousai]

Grimmy wrote:
My vote is not on you. It is on Iam. he is playing very anti-town with the OMGUS vote and the WIFOM arguements. So it is not a wasted lynch to get rid of someone who is not helping the town.

Regardless of the correctness, anti-town =/= scum. Besides, Iam has provided much more insight/scum hunting into the game than you have.

[Battousai]

Deadline is approaching soon, and I'm keeping my vote on Grimmy. What about the three of you not voting? I know Yos could care less apparently, but I would expect nocmen and cavebear to come to a conclusion or at least speculate more. I know cavebear has asked a question of jex, who hasn't posted yet and he's probably waiting on that. But you both can still tell us who you think are probable scum. I'm guessing there is around 2 scum left and I think they are grimmy and rem right now.

[Battousai]

anti-town actions are not always made by mafia or a faction that wants the town to lose. It can apply to moves, made by townies, that harm the town (of course the person who did the move would have thought that it would have helped). In actuallity, I use the term anti-town to imply it was a bad move and call all factions that want the town to lose as scum, but that's just me.

On another note, if no one changes their minds, then it appears Cavebear gets to decide between Iam and grimmy. I would really like jex to answer Cavebear's questions so we can get more from Cavebear on who he thinks is most likely scum.

[Battousai]

That's a hypothetical statement, so don't flip out at me for knowing stuff the town doesn't know. It's just an attempt to guess at the possibility of the setups.

Is this the what cavebear "cut out".

There's nothing to suggest cults (that I've seen anyway) and it serves little purpose but to stress us into possibly making hasty decisions about lynching. In short, it's anti-town.

Because Cavebear is just saying guessing that there's a cult is why he didn't like that statement. How about if I said, "Hypothetically, there could be 3 jesters in the game so we need to watch who we lynch."? That's basically what you said, but with a cult. Both statements are anti-town, so by your standards I should lynch you right now. But combined with my earlier feelings concerning mass nameclaiming and your unfounded vote on Iam. I'm going to vote you.

UNVOTE, VOTE: Iamausername

(rem)

[Battousai]

as a matter of fact Batt, the only difference between your triple jester statement and my cult statement is the likeliness of it happening.

I see no difference. Where in this thread has anyone, mod included, suggested something that would mean there were 3 jesters OR a cult? So therefore, it's just as likely IN THIS GAME.

[Battousai]

Ok, now that everyone's voting....

I think the original reason for voting rem and grimmy are about the same, no? So those voting grimmy, would you be willing to lynch rem and those voting rem, be willing to vote grimmy? Personally I find both of them to be very scummy, but I find rem to be moreso.

[Battousai]

Grimmy, I'm not defending Iam. Rather, I'm attacking the accusations thrown at him, for they, IMHO, are asinine. For one thing, you claim Iam could be a lyncher. Guess what? Lynchers lose if their target survives. Therefore, lynching a lyncher is like lynching Yos right now, a wasted lynch. One other attack on Iam is that he doesn't know the town win condition. Ok, he said he wanted to lynch Yos because a survivor is a different faction than the town, IIRC. Then rem votes him because he doesn't know the town win condition. His whole vote is based on semantics of what faction means. Another reason I find you scummy is that your vote reason was, I don't think your town aligned. You didn't give a reason at the time for Iam to defend against.

[Battousai]

Grimmy, I'm not defending Iam. Rather, I'm attacking the accusations thrown at him, for they, IMHO, are asinine. For one thing, you claim Iam could be a lyncher. Guess what? Lynchers lose if their target survives. Therefore, lynching a lyncher is like lynching Yos right now, a wasted lynch.

IN retrospect, it seems now to be more of a slip up that he was hoping nobody would call him on, more so than just not trusting a lyncher. And it wouldnt surprise me that is he IS a lyncher, and doesnt lynch YOS, then he will get something more harmful to the town (activated vig or something along those lines)

All that is, is speculation about roles. You have no proof that would happen at all. Nothing that would give the idea of that happening except with mafiassk. But even then it wan't too farfetched to think he would come back since he admitted to having a reviving ability.

Another reason I find you scummy is that your vote reason was, I don't think your town aligned. You didn't give a reason at the time for Iam to defend against.

This I can understand.
So now that I have further explained me reasons for voting Iam, and have given him a chance to defend himself (which IMHO, he has not done successfully enough to have me change my vote), how does this affect your suspcions of me. Right now, you suspect me and Rem as scum. Who would you consider as a third option?

1) Just because you later rectify the situation by giving him a chance to defend himself, it doesn't excuse the original offense

2) I honestly don't think there are 3 more scum (that would equal 4 scum plus a townie who becomes scum when lynced). It just seems too overppowered. I would guess 2 at max (depending on town powerroles that haven't been revealed). The only other person that I can see as scum right now is probably Jex. That's mainly due to his lack of posts lately.

[Battousai]

Why is hammering so bad? Everyone has made their arguments and defenses. People have been at L-2 and have not claimed, so hammering them, IMHO, would be equal to any other vote on them.

[Battousai]

I'm confused tar, rule 12 is still about drunken posting...

... That would be because Rule 10 (the deadline rule) was the rule that was updated, not Rule 12 (aka the joke rule). OOPS. - Tar

Iam, I don't know that you will garner much support for a nocmen lynch today. I think everyone is either going to vote grimmy/rem or you and we really need to come to a consensus soon. I do not want to wait until deadline day and someone using that reason (it's either vote for him or no lynch) to defend a mislynch the next day.

I think that both grimmy and rem have been the most suspicious so far in the game, and like I said I'll vote for either, but there has to be 3 other people (besides yos) to agree and it looks like rem and grimmy will not budge their votes.

[Battousai]

Well in that case,

UNFOS: Jex. FOS: Rem

[Battousai]

So without the special voting rules the vote count is basically

Rem (2)- Battousai, Cavebear, Jex
Grimmy (2)- Iam, rem
Iam (2)- Grimmy, nocmen

Not Voting: Yos

FOS:
Rem (1)- Battousai
Grimmy (3)- Battousai, Iam, Jex
Iam (1)- rem
Nocmen (1)- Iam

Leading Lynch List:
1) Grimmy by 2 FOS
2 and 3) Rem, Iam

Yos, this is up to you or nocmen depending on if he catches his error.

[Battousai]

FOS: Rem, Grimmy; Vote: Iam (rem)]

For same reason as yesterday.

[Battousai]

Since my last vote was messed up, I'm going to revote.

FOS: Grimmy, Rem; Vote: Yos (grimmy)

I was going to vote rem, but post 527 really stuck out to me. I'll feel much more comfortable with this lynch than Rem's.

[Battousai]

I say massclaim before, and the order of the claims should be decided FIRST by everyone making a list like this:

1 Rem
2 Cavebear
3 Iam
4 Batt

[Battousai]

I wondered why I woke up in a different house this morning. I just thought I got lucky...

[Battousai]

We should lynch cavebear first to figure out if he's lieing or not. If he is then he's the last scum. If he's not, then his role has basically told us that rem or Iam is. So by lynch/investigating cavebear will narrow it down to only 2 players from my POV. I'm cleared to you all through cavebear's claim. But from my POV, any one of you could be scum. Also, another reason to lynch/investigate cavebear is because we will only get a role so all of us could be telling the truth and we could learn nothing from anyone else's lynch.

Vote: Cavebear

even if scum want this they would have to convince another townie as well (safe vote).

I'm Alice from Alice in Wonderland, a vanilla townie. My only ability was being told that the mod was a player. I feel bad now, cause I think I am the only player who does not have an ability

[Battousai]

I don't know, it was in the original role pm. I'm just guessing it refered to Korts.

Cavebear, if we lynch/investigate remscum/iamscum we will get their role and not their alignment. Chances are scum do have special abilities as well and they could have told us the truth about their role, just not their win condition. If we go with you, your role CAN'T be a scum role so if you lied we caught you and if you didn't it confirms rem/iam as possible scum.

[Battousai]

kinda obvious,

Vote: Cavebear

I knew something was up with cavebear. I always had a lingering suspicion because it seemed like he lurked and in the beginning only seemed to talk about the flavor Tar put in his vote count.

[Battousai]

If nocmen didn't use whack a mole, scum most likely would have won the game. The last day there was 4 people left. A mislynch plus nk means the next day it's 1v1, game over. All cavebear would have had to do was get rem lynched (I know I would have voted rem, and a good chance Iam might have as well). The game was quite enjoyable, but I have to say I'm surprised by my role now. I was expecting at least one other character from a Disney movie/book. Alice just doesn't seem to fit.

[Battousai]

I would Tar but I'm not "qualified" or ever "modded" before.