Open 74 - C/9ths (Game Over!) before 601

[DarlaBlueEyes]

well that was pretty random ninja. Reasonings?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

vote Iron Man

for picking a name based on a comic character that has no superhuman powers.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

vote: Eldrich ... don't like your play style thus far.

I will be somewat L/A until wed eve.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

oops sorry elmo xD

was posting from my cell

vote: eldritch

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I am back, just need to catch up. will post later

[DarlaBlueEyes]

mokina, can I ask why you feel like it is so necessary to defend EL?

n00b or not, this isnt a newbie game where IC's are needed...so I am just wondering why you are defending him so much?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I haven't gotten a chance to finish reading yet, but you only have one vote afaik, so what are you so worried about?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

EL- taking into account that you are new, I will show a bit of understanding, but you have extemely emotional reactions to things.

Especially people voting for you, so just chill abit, there will always be votes, and random voting is nothing ot get all worked up over. In a bigger game like this (vs a newbie game) its not as easy to get a quick lynch.

You're severe unsettled nature about ANY votes being on you concerns me. You don't handle the pressure well, which makes me want to keep my vote on you until I see more scummy actions from someone else.

Also you have been jumping around alot on your stance of players such as Mokina.

I just don't like how you are playing, thus my vote stands for now.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I dont see why I am considered a lurker when I informed you all I would be VLA till Wednesday (which is now over)

I am not feeling well this week so my posting is lessened. Apologies If I am being a hindrance.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

ert scratch that, Rereads do offer great help Mokina. ^^

Either way I am not cool with a Snix wagon today. I am not convinced and I think its too fast if anyone even considered hammering or L-1ing him.

I see that we have soem MafiaVirgins in here too, which makes this a bit more difficult, but it also makes it fun.

The thought of a EL/ZS alignment did briefly cross my mind, that they could keep us all fooled, but I am doubtful.

I am still the most Suspicious of EL for accusing ZS of emotion posting (which he has been doing) when the first 2 pages or so are littered with emotion replies from EL.

Anyways I need some rest and some Pepto Bismol :p

Will post more tomorrow.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

If ZS is scum he is the worst scum ever because he is drawing a TON of attention to himself, I just don't get any scum vibes from him, nervous townie? maybe. Nervous PR? Probably. Scum? Doubtful.

I mean I can see some odd behavior but to me its just too much to be scum, unless, he is the worst scum ever.

snix I just don't see it, I think he is probably vanilla and made a few slips that got the the bandwagon on him, I am not against voting for him but nothing so far has convinced me.

so with current votes I am looking at

Snix (3) Lowell, donkeyz12212, dcorbe
EL (3) DBE, ZS, Mike
Lowell (2) EL Snix
Donkeyz (1) SPN

both EL and Snix are at L-4 so its pretty safe right now.

I will say I am seeing some suspicious signs from Donkeyz as well, but I am not ready to take my vote off EL yet, I want to see what pressure will do to him, and how he will convince me otherwise.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Mokina is concerning me somewhat, She starts off to EL's defense, he is a newbie, she is helping him, defending him even. (this isnt a newbie game IC's arent here to help if you dive into a mini ya better now how to swim)

I asked her about it and she snipped at me that she was going to help him. Now she IS all of a Sudden NOT going to help him and saying

I'm done giving EL a break because he's new. I will explain new concepts to him if he asks, but from this point on I'm treating him with the same scrutiny as anyone else.

This looks like distancing to me, and telling him, look I know you are knew but you're not dragging me down with you.

EL makes one post, Ignoring her comments, and accusing Lowell, she Imeediately says, "Im Sold"

I do not like this. I am very much concerned about a Mokina/El scum partnership.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Also, EL seems very agitated at me for keeping my vote on him for what are in his words, no good reasons, When I do have them, I have stated them, And his reaction to my vote that isn't even that threatening seems very suspect as well.

He hasn't done much scum hunting, Attacking ZS who reacts very emotionally but whome I think is town, and singling out a lurker, who gave reasonale excuse for his absence in a recent post.

I'd liek to see him do more to locate scum and this Alliance with Mokina to be scrutinized.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

just because I haven't removed my vote doesn't mean I am not scum hunting. I think you are scum and you're looking scummier and scummier to me, I am taking into account that you are new, which can cause a nervous newbie to show scum tells that are false (I have done so) so I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt as far as that goes.

dcorbe's readily accepting my theory (note Theory) is a bit odd, Usually when I present such a case its either amended or disporven, not immediately accepted and pushed to make happen.

I will agree this looks scummy to me.

A not for you tho, Lurkings /=/ Scum. Some scum lurk but the majority of the time you will find lurking draws attention which is what scum don't want, thus why I am not going to vote Lowell because of his lurking.

His actions have been off but nothing that

really

makes me worry, I'd bet we get vanilla results from him. A scum wouldn't be that reckless.

My top suspects at, are EL. Mokina, and Dcorbe for his bandwagonng my theory however all are Minor FoS's.

Keeping my vote where it stands for now, for pressure sake, I will unvote if you get to a L-2.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

EL, I have been in games when Day one didn't end until page 78.

There is no standard, and a Deadline wont be set unless we go inactive usually.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Interesting, ok firstly, I havent jumped around, I am pretty damn sure EL is scum, I was weighing options, but none of tehm strong enough to cause me to unvote.

EL & Mokina band wagoning is very OMGUSy since I have been accusing them.

If they didn't look scummy before they look hella scummy now. and I never suspected ZS, gave mention to a POSSIBLY alignment but I really didn't believe it. and Since when Is changing your mind or deciding someone isnt scum after reading a few more posts illegal?

Donkey your case is weak, especially since my first post was responding to a joke and the Iron Man vote was random. Obviously you are quite new as well so I won't hold the crap logic against you. :p

[DarlaBlueEyes]

ok seriously set aside all suspicions or dislike for me and as a VETERAN to MS, read Donkeyz post its beyond weak. He tries very hard to make a case, and I commend him on that, but its just crap logic.

I haven't been accusing everyone, You're just upset because I've found a chink in your armor. I'd bet anything I was right with the Mokina/EL scum buddies, and I am sure I will die tonight :p

I want to get reactions from other players too,

Both Mokina and EL have reacted very Hostily to me, for my FoS and vote, but no one else on their wagons. I have every right to keep my vote and no amount of pressure or 'looking down' on me will change it. Seeing equally or more scummy scum tells from someone else will. until then I'm sticking with EL.

You're constant defense of him is what has me pretty sure you are his more Experienced Scum Buddy.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

lovely

go ahead and lynch me dudes, because I don't unvote some one and vote hop. *gasp*

Because I am sure EL is scum but I was going to show him mercy if he reached a near lynch and Re-read one last time before I lynched.

Suddenly I feel like the bully who isn't showing the newbies any favor (btw the comment to Donkeys about his newbieness was called

sarcasm

) No one showed me any sort favor as a newbie, I was in a game with some of the most feared and respected players on this site and they shredded me. I had to learn to swim or drown, fight or die.

So will you.

So go ahead and lynch me, I am not going to write a big defensive post, I may have looked at other people but I got someone on my scumdar and they won't leave, until they do I am not unvoting.

Those of you who think playing like that is scummy, well them maybe you need to tune up your scumdar's yourself.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Sorry for being hostile there...I just get annoyed when people don't see things the way I do....

anyways I am thinking Donkey is town, he doesn't strike me as scum, same for Snix, and TSN,

will do a more in depth analysis of each player shortly

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Okiee Day here we go:

Mokina --- She has done some things to set me off in regards to EL, and her readily changing her mind, but overall I think She seems townie enough. She still isnt off my scumdar, but her blip isnt so strong. I'd say about 45% chance of being scum

Snix --- Looking back over his posts he has been consistent and townie. Despite the wagon on him, I think he is pretty townie, I'd say 15% chance of scum

TSN --- Scum hunts, and plays like someone who knows what they are doing. Not getting a strong reading on him, but what I do get says townie. 20% chance of Scum

dcorbe -- seems a lot of his mistakes are typical newbie, although I saw a few things, not enough yet to really worry me

too

much. The readily joining me in my Theory on Mok/EL was pretty fishy, but I think it was more of an excitement for some sort of bandwagon possibly forming. 25% scum

Sidney, Mike zim, Iron Man-- not enough posts

Lowell --- Seems to be the most level headed, makes good reasons for his votes, and seems to consider all the options. 15% chance of scum

Zombie Slayer --- Reacts emotionally, but had the most genuine desire to see scum hunt down *(seemingly)* I would like more activity but he posts enough. I would say town. 20% chance

donkey --- probably the most 'newbie' ish player. I see a Genuine effort on his part to track down scum. The logic in many cases is weak, but the effort is strong. I think get the towniest vibes from him. 15% chance of scum.

I need to devote an entire post to EL so you all can see what I see.... need to quote so uno momento por favor.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Okie lets quote some posts!!

EL's First:

Random voting is scummy imo

Where did this come from? Really? to just jump in and slap all our wrists for 'Random voting'

next posts:

Random voting is scummy imo

Care to outline your reasons?
Vote

Unvote, Vote: Eldritch Lord

For sheer comedic value.

(It is almost universally accepted that random voting draws out discussion

EL retaliates with a OMGUS

So does any form of talking, assuming both sides of the discussion are willing to converse.

Vote: Mokina

Bandwagoning with a parenthetical excuse is still bandwagoning.

(Interesting he doesn't agree with Bandwaggoning here but on me or snix he endorses it)

Then a few posts later he says:

I'm not going to push it, however, as

I don't really have anything to go on besides the fact that you voted for me

. Still, I find

random voting rather scummy

, why would we eliminate one of our members by voting for them if we didn't know anything about them--or hardly anything. There's a greater chance the person will come up Town. So, until we know more, since we have no deadline I'm going to try to avoid setting up an easy hammer.

Unvote
Slight FoS: Mokina

He admits openly to an OMGUS vote and presses his ideal that Random Voting is scummy, dismissing the comments that it gets discussion going and draws out scum tells.

onward to page 2

Don't jump to conclusions, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that Day 1 has no deadline thus far, so there's no need to rush Day 1. Voting no-lynch is affordable on Day 1 when you have this many people, but that doesn't make it smart--it's still a pretty pro-Scum move.

So random Voting is scummy, and voting a No-lynch is better but its Still scummy? What is he saying here? does he even know? I think this is pure WIFOM and him trying to have a loop hole.

Snix Addresses his hostile attitude in some of the following posts, and he retaliates with another Baseless OMGUS vote:

It was a question. A simple trap laden question, but a question none the less. No need to get so defensive.

I also don't think that no-lynch is affordable. Every lynch, scum lynch or not, gives information to the living the next day. Like who hammered the lynch, who pushed the lynch, who was just along for the ride. All very good sources of information. I don't see a real point for voting no lynch unless everything is split and a deadline will just have the person with the most lynches lynched.

I don't think its suspicious at all, putting pressure on people is a good way to learn more about them (how they react, if they procrastinate or shrug responsibility, etc.), and more importantly how scummy they are(n't). It's not a quick-lynch, it's just pressure. However, it is kind of odd that Mokina would defend random voting--but still concede that random lynching is bad.

Vote Snix

For buddying up with Mokina since early game, and because I think a MokinaXSnix scumpair is viable from what I've seen as of so far. Though, to be honest buddying up the way you have is probably a bit too obvious a scumtell to come from intelligent, experienced players such as yourselves. That is why I am voting for you, Snix, rather than Mokina; because although I am suspicious of the both of you--she has more votes and I would like to see how this ganging up you guys have thus far seemed fond of changes in reaction to this post rather than pushing for a lynch.

a few posts later he says"

To not have a scumpair at any given time is a waste, I find it more efficient to put specific people under near-ludicrous scrutiny rather than kind of scan over everyone and have a chance of missing the scum.

Also, I don't agree at all with TSN until this page, rather than doing it from the start of the game. We have different interests, the common one is getting some pressure on Snix. I actually have something to go on, although I'd like to hear his reasoning a bit more.

(Interesting, he applies this to himself but accuses me of being mean/scum when I do it to him)


then Mokina drops this gem here which I love

In all seriousness, putting pressure on players (even if there's no concrete reason to do so) is the only way to provoke discussion about another person's tactics. For instance, if it's random, why did they pick that player? It looks scummy to pick a newb, etc.

So here we go, loop hole for her Defense of EL, and 'picking on a newbie' is basically saying they are off limits even though they could be scum as much as anyone.

(at this point I am thinking Mokina is EL's scum buddy, and laying the groundwork for an excuse to her defense of him)

another post from EL:

Yes, perhaps I voiced my opinion a bit too strongly, or worded it in the wrong manner. Allow me to clarify ZS,

I don't want a random lynch or a no lynch, I don't think it would be a good idea.

again with these symantics, again I ask, what DOES he want?

after the above Post, I voted for him, eliciting a very hostile reply:

Thank you for posting a vote based on my playstyle rather than content or scum-clues and offering no actual reasoning right before a period when you know you'll have limited access to mafiascum.net It makes perfect sense.

at this point I was only to be gone about 3 days, not some week long LA.

several posts and arguements with Snix down the page he replies to snix with this:

Do not mistake game-motivating pressure for anger/passion. Truly, I have nothing against you for disagreeing with me on this random-lynch/random-vote issue, I have not attacked ZombieSlayer or Sideney for disagreeing with me. It is not personal, it is simply this:

1. The random vote you held for me even after you said donkey did something suspicious
2. The fact that you held that vote in synchrony with Mokina's until after I called it to light, which is when you chose to disagree with her.
3.

The trap-question directed towards myself, a new player, that would have likely resulted in a quicker lynch if I had answered it in a manner not expected of Town. (Yes, I am new).

4. The fact that you are so quick to call your fellow townies "dumb", doubt their logic (Mokina), and claim that I also went ballistic on ZS and Sideney for disagreeing with me (if that's really the only reason I hate you, it would be true that I hate them as well) Despite the fact I think Mokina may possibly, might, kind of be scum--if you think she's town you shouldn't be so quick to doubt her logic, especially after agreeing with it for so long.

The bolded part is The newbie argument, WIFOM, and seems like he is WAY to focus on looking townie/not looking scummy.

Then there is a bunch of arguing posts where many people tell him he needs to calm down, and that its just a game, he reacts VERY hostly and emotionally, (I am nto the only one who saw it)

lots of drabble....then Mike Zim votes for a no lynch (remember what EL wanted to do earlier?)

HAND OF SUSPICION!: Mike-Zim *Dramatic Music Plays*

For epic lurking, and hopping to suggest a no-lynch. Yes, it may be a cautious town move, but with all that's happened thus far, I find it hard to believe you don't find someone just a tad bit suspicious-or that you would have a motive not to say so if you did.

so now voting for a no lynch is suspicion worthy, but not if he does it. interesting.

then 2 posts later he randomly changes his mind again,

Vote: Lowell

You voted Snix to give my argument some legs, the thing is my argument barely had a base. I am shamelessly starting a Lowell wagon. Discuss.

Vote hopping I tell you!!

Up till now he has voted for:

vote Mokina
Unvote
FOS Mokina
vote Snix
Unvote
FOS Zombie
HOS Mike zim
Vote Lowell

he hopped around a ton and thats just by page 4.

Anyways, I return and ask why Mokina is all of a sudden Defending EL excessively:

mokina, can I ask why you feel like it is so necessary to defend EL?

n00b or not, this isnt a newbie game where IC's are needed...so I am just wondering why you are defending him so much?

I am not gonna quote all her defending, just read page 4-5.

EL replies;

Can I ask you why you are holding onto my vote, Darla?

Does it go beyond playstyle at all?

This is my first post since returning, and he is already on me, His insane need to NOT have any votes is scummy in itself, and convinces me to keep my vote to see how he acts.

(no one wants votes but scum especially newbie scum hate it and tend to panic)

I reply:

I haven't gotten a chance to finish reading yet, but you only have one vote afaik, so what are you so worried about?

He retorts with a sarcasm laced reply, admitting that I actually have some 'sliver' of a chance of having a reasonable vote. (it was established earlier in the thread by Snix I believe, that keeping a vote on the only person you find scummy, no matter how much scummy you find them, is a good way to get discussion and reads.) I believe this as well and operate by it.

YOUR OPINION MEANS THE WORLD TO ME! /cry

Actually, its simply because you are the only person actually voting for me with some slim chance of your vote making sense. So, as soon as you finish reading (and if your vote still stands), it'd be really awesome to hear your reasoning.

I give my reasons for my vote, which are in concordance with many of the points made above:

EL- taking into account that you are new, I will show a bit of understanding, but you have extemely emotional reactions to things.

Especially people voting for you, so just chill abit, there will always be votes, and random voting is nothing ot get all worked up over. In a bigger game like this (vs a newbie game) its not as easy to get a quick lynch.

You're severe unsettled nature about ANY votes being on you concerns me. You don't handle the pressure well, which makes me want to keep my vote on you until I see more scummy actions from someone else.

Also you have been jumping around alot on your stance of players such as Mokina.

I just don't like how you are playing, thus my vote stands for now.

The he says:

Hm, I think you missed the sarcasm in the first statement. I was simply curious as to why you were voting for me--since you had up until then provided absolutely zero reason beyond "his playstyle". The caps and slash cry were because you seemed to be continuously dodging the question because you were simultaneously "catching up" and reading the newest posts---it was a joke, you think I care about your vote way more than I do.

I care a bit about your vote because I don't want a town lynch (myself) on Day 1, but I also don't think your vote is going anywhere given how scummy Lowell, Mike-Zim, and other more suspicious members of this game have been.

That was not an emotional reaction, and

not once in playing this game have I felt the need for emotional response

. I'm a /b/'er, I lost my soul long ago.

LOl @ Bolded part. Page 1-3 is littered with people telling him to chill, because of his emotional posting. He continues his vote and FOS hopping to Lowell and Mike Zim, a Lurker and a IC, Lowell imo had been delivering good arguments EL couldnt compensate for and he just retaliated with a Fos.

(This is getting long D: sorry Guys)

Then the pages of ZS/EL arguments ensue.....

this sentace popped out for me from Post 124

I am not scum, I will not stand by and let myself get bandwagoned by the people who are currently on my case, sorry.

Again he is really focused on not being lynched, and is more worried about lookinf or being perceived as scummy than scum hunting.

Skip through a pile of EL/ZS madness...

we get this scumtastic post, playing to the town:

Mokina, I urge you to pay special heed to Lowell's posts (both the lack thereof, as well as the lack of content with them).

I agree, it's time we move on from this pseudo-random stage.

unFoS: Everyone I'm Not Voting For
Final Vote for Day 1: Lowell

This is of course barring any revelation brought on by a good re-read or some very good explaining on Lowell's part. At this point however, I seriously encourage you to speak up Lowell, as I would not at all mind you being Day One's lynch--given how things have gone thus far.

Other possible candidates at this point, for me:
DarlaBlueEyes
ZombieSlayer54
Snix

His other candidates include me, who wont unvote the poor newb, the person who has been arguing with him (somewhat rudely) and Snix who has provided some of the best arguments to his (El's) logic.

lots of discussiion ladee ladee

then this:

Darla, there is nothing to react to. I am holding fast to my position that your vote is baseless--I've given up trying to convince you otherwise, those who are persuadable will be persuaded. My focus right now isn't on that--its on Lowell who has yet to post in response to my concerns.

again he is agitated with my vote, and there is truely no such thing as a baseless vote, he also makes mention that he sees I am not persuadable. which IMO sets me up for a NK by the scum (being him) if he isn't lynched. Its obvious I am onto him and he doesn't like it. So he dismisses me.


Nwxt Post Mokina says

"I'm Sold"

and Joins EL's bandwagon on Lowell, I find that a bit scummy combined with previous interactions between the two.

I mention his aggitation with my vote and he replies (gasp hostily)

Agitated? I told you I don't care because I truly don't believe you'll bandwagon me with Lurkers like Lowell pushing bandwagon votes with no explanation. Sorry, but if you can get on, you shouldn't vote unless you have time for an explanation--no matter what your excuse is, this is the internet and it can be faked.

so Now he doesn't care, and knows I'll 'do the right thing' and not bandwagon with the evol lurkerz like the evol Lowell.

The rest of the posts are recent enough you guys can look for yourselves, and I have made a long enough post I think.

I kinda got carried away, this is why I find him scummy.

Vote Stands.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

crossed posts with you mokina, and looking at you takes on it, I can see where & How he allied himself to you much more than you did to him.

The defending him concerned me only because i Did the same thing in my first game as scum on another site, i had a bad scum partner and constantly had to defend them, as I reread I still saw some hints of an alignment, but much more so from his end than yours.

It is also doubtful to me that you would bus your own partner on D1 with a vote, so I will say that my FoS on Mokina is much less now.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

That ws the longest post I have ever made on MS...I was just so frustrated because EL seems so scummy to me and I feel like the only one who can see it... I know I have some holes in my case, but there's hardly ever a solid case (that i've seen) this early on.

Sidney lurking does bother me, but it seems more like a disinterest...I will do some meta to see if she/he has been active in other games recently.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

if you check Sid's posting history its very slow and sparse, the last cluster of high activity was may 7-may 8 in his only other game, he has been posting at about the same rate in it with similar small posts.

not saying this clears him but it does seem to be consistently happening in his other game.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I agree.

prod on Sidney

and I'm all for a replace too,

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I am beginning to think you really are just that n00bish, EL.

In all my games never have I seen a scum "give up" as you say on day one with a lame case against them.

I was annoyed and I got a bit too sarcastic and 'FU' with my post ,yea I admitted it and apologized :p

but to think I was saying I give up you caught me and that I am scum from that is laughable.


also, I like how your entire post is worded carefully, and dancing around the accusations laid forth against you.

you guess you have been maybe trying to clear your own name more than scum hunt ect ect

and could you say that you are scum hunting more ways and times in that post?

You accuse me of FoS hopping, and Mokina too (OMGUS possibly?) When if you review the past few pages you have laid out many FoS's and a Whoping HAND OF SUSPICION. While I myself have not, I don't FoS everyone for every little thing. I like to look at their actions as a whole, and then decide if they are scum from there.

you have no real answers for the points made against you by myself or mokina, other than you have been trying hard to scum hunt, and yadda yadda.

in the words of ABR,

Die Scum!

[DarlaBlueEyes]

to sum up,

El is either a gaggingly new n00bie

or as scummy as the day is long

[DarlaBlueEyes]

EBWOP:

I am inclined to believe the latter by the majority of his playstyle

[DarlaBlueEyes]

whoa, Lots of activity, I am glad too see it picking up here.

Gonna read what I've missed, no one hammer yet, I wan't everyone to get a word in (people like Lowell & Sid (or his replace) )

[DarlaBlueEyes]

caught up.

EL seems pretty ' You guys suck you'll See!! I'm town you're being dumb '

if he is NOT scum, I will be very surprised, and fully expect to take the heat, but you can clearly see I had more than enough reasons to cast my vote and suspect him.

And as dcorbe said, I'd like to know what your realization was.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

EL ---

Bravo.

That was a very good post. One of which I was waiting on from you.

for the time being, I am going to,

unvote

(to prevent a hammer) and look more into the mokina case.

I know her "I'm Sold" post and immediately voting for Lowell, clued me off, but I hadn't noticed just ho much she had done that.

She doesn't have the newbie excuse, so I will be investigating her posts, however my suspicoion on you is not gone EL. but until I can be sure I don't want a hammer.

and dcorbe, Its obvious my fate would be tied to his since I was the ring leader if you will to his case, but I was saying that I expect it but also reminding people that I actually gave reasoning for my vote and my suspicion vs. just bandwagoning.

be back after a Mokina Meta.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

perhaps you will pull a James Bond and Die another Day Eldritch.

after a meta, I think that EL's actions could more easily be summed into a newbie excuse, whereas her's have no excuse as she is more experienced.

I still have my doubt about Eldritch, but looking it over i concede that Mokina would probably be a better lynch for today because If I let my " must kill eldritch scum " guard down, I can honestly see many newbie mistakes from him.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

thats the joy of mafia, and tends to happen around L-1's.

What we need to look at however, Is the facts, which I don't have the time for atm...so I pass the baton to one of you people who have nothing better to do.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

thank you for the wise words ninja, I am not exactly an IC myself, its nice to have the more experienced players speaking up.

Must say I am willing to put EL on the backburner for now, I think most of the mistakes and tells can be explained.

I am not Opposed to a Mok lynch but we hardly have enough yet.

dcorbe as scum seems a bit of a stretch to me *at this point*, but I am willing to look into it. *cracks knuckles*

Lets see how this thread looks when I am not convinced EL is scum ^^

[DarlaBlueEyes]

lol,

master ninja sir,

can you tel us why you want dcorbe dead so bad? Not that I am opposed but a little more explanation would be peachy.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I unvoted to prevent a Hammer, I was going to reread, and if I am honest I really don't think Dcorbe is scum, I really think EL is, but am willing to let it go for now.

Either way I am thinking Mokina would be a good lynch as well, Although I'd happily lynch EL as well. I just think that EL has a little bit more excuse for scumslips/scumtells than mokina even if this is her 2nd game.

vote:Mokina

(If we had lynched EL and he wasn't scum I woulda taken full responsibility btw, but at least I would have had reasoning for the vote from me vs. just being a bandwagoner. )

[DarlaBlueEyes]

donkeys, again I think you mean well, but your case is really weak.

I have only led one bandwagon (EL) and only voted for two people (I don't think I actually made a random vote, cant remember atm, but if I did, it wasn't an informed vote, of whch I have only made two.)

As to EL:

You yet again have flip flopped, you started the case on Mokina and now you want it explained? I am still not convinced we don't have a Mokina/El scum pair but I am less inclined to believe it after Mokina voted EL, on Day 1.

I can't say I find either particularly townie, but a Mokina lynch might inform us of more. I still can't shake the feeling that EL is scum, but his more recent actions seem more genuine. I will hold onto those suspicions for now, pending what info we gather from the lynch.


Mike, your post being so wishy washy after heavy lurkdom concerns me. Please post more or have yourself replaced, you do the town no service by being so inactive.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I am not liking this.

EL is so screamingly wishy washy I am reconsidering,

Starting from about 3 pages ago, He is CONVINCED it is Lowell, Then He is CONVINCED it is Me, Then he is CONVINCED it is Mokina, Then he is CONVINCED it is dcorbe, Now he Is Convinced its Mokina Again?

not liking this. Going back to my first intuition.

unvote; vote EL

this is just way to wishy washy, Make up your mind and try to prove a case instead of jumping on whatever is most possible and popular at the time.

Mokina, his scummy actions are saving you, but I am not convinced you're not actually scum, but he is just getting worse, I thought I could Ignore it, but I can't.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Mod

: Can we get a Vote Count please?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Eldritch Lord (5) <--ZombieSlayer54, mike-zim, Mokina, Iron Man, DBE, dcorbe
Snix (1) <- Lowell
DarlaBlueEyes <- donkeyz1221
Mokina (2) <- Snix, Lowell
dcorbe (2) - TSN, EL

Okay so I was Impatient, Adding Dcorbe's most recent vote I believe EL is back at L-1 No?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

That should Be:

Eldritch Lord (6) <--ZombieSlayer54, mike-zim, Mokina, Iron Man, DBE, dcorbe
Snix (1) <- Lowell
DarlaBlueEyes <- donkeyz1221
Mokina (2) <- Snix, Lowell
dcorbe (2) - TSN, EL

and yes, he is at L-1

[DarlaBlueEyes]

EBWOP x2

ldritch Lord (6) <--ZombieSlayer54, mike-zim, Mokina, Iron Man, DBE, dcorbe
DarlaBlueEyes <- donkeyz1221
Mokina (2) <- Snix, Lowell
dcorbe (2) - TSN, EL

Sorry D:

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I am willing to entertain that I am wrong, but I would need a good reason as to why you think he is not scum TSN, can you tell me why you think he is town?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I agree with TSN here, a claim isn't going to help us any.


If anyone is stupid enough to counter claim him (when we could have multiple copies of the same role) the scum know who to kill.

The detriments outway the benefits.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

okay seriously, we're just gonna wagon sydney with no case, sorry dcorbe you cant do that, if you want MY vote you need to lay it out. make a case, not just say, this one wont work lets try that.

It makes you look scummy.

FoS dcorbe

and mike you'd do well not to be so easily led by him.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

ok seriously dcorbe,

No clear lynch target? EL has been at L-1 twice now, thats pretty clear.

Your little tirade has me rereading over your posts with a new suspicion, I was believing at first you were just newbie, and it could be the case still, but you are most certainly starting to look more scummy than EL who is still on my scumdar, but I don't see how you being lynched even if you come up town

"PROVES!" TSN & EL as scum, seriously, theres no logic in that.

Your hostility to those who vote you also is another scum tell.

You're starting to panic, and panic will reveal a lot.

I may also vote you, even willing to hammer if you get that far, for now I'd like to see some more reactions to your recent actions.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

it proves nothing. Honestly.

By that logic I would be scum if EL came up town because I was pushing his wagon.

People push because they have a reason to think they are scum. Its the people who push without a reason who tend to be scum. Which you have done btw.

Not saying I'm convinced you're scummy, but you have some serious crap-logic issues.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

thats nice to know but heres a few questions:

what on earth makes you think mokina is doc or cop?

why is mike-zim 100% town when he barly posts? because he agrees with you?

and Lowell, weren't you supportive of a Lowell lynch? *i could be wrong*

Giving a 100% on on TSN is a bit of a stretch imo, and if you do feel that strong, why not vote him?


Your list seems to be playing to certain players. and targetting many of the ICs for a lynch or NK (mokina as a cop/doc)

I would put it more like this:


Mokina (Hard to read has VERY scummy moments, and less scummy moments, 45% town)
TheSweatpantsNinja (if anyone had a PR I would lean here, but in all I am thinking town 60% town)
Iron Man (Not sure, I would give it a 50/50)
ZombieSlayer54 (pretty townie, seems to want scum gone, but I don't have a solid read 55% town )
Eldritch Lord (Seems scummy to me, but has moments that seem pro-town and slightly newb 40% town)
Snix (Seems pretty townie to me, has been consistent, 70% town)
dcorbe (Scummy acting, crap logic, 45% town)
sideney (no read, seems more scummy than town but too close to call, agree with the 50/50)
donkeyz12212 (misguided newbie 70% town)
mike-zim (Lurker, newbie, 50% Town)
Lowell (Apathetic, 60% Town)

[DarlaBlueEyes]

im waffling here.

I don't trust EL but dcorbe you're being ridiculously scummy.

Thinking thinking...

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I agree with TSN here, if he can't be NK'd or 'Can't' be, and his play is this erratic and unpredictable, its a danger for the town.

In my mind I would lynch only three people today in this order:

EL
Dcorbe
Mokina

Mokina really is a last resort but she seems to really play to anyone who's under the gun or leading the charge.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I'd be willing to hammer, but I would like one last defense from dcorbe

[DarlaBlueEyes]

lol I really am not sure, but you seem pretty confident, I wouldn't put any sock in that honestly, but in now way did I see where he was coming from about Mokina.

dcorbe, if you are lurking you're making me feel all the happier too see you go, please at least post, if you don't in like 36-48 hours or so I will drop the hammer. (maybe sooner, we don't have a deadline right?)

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I said in NO WAY did i see where he was coming from about mokina. (that extra w decided to attach to my No.)

[DarlaBlueEyes]

wow, mokina,

nice giving him a chance to post. That didn't make you look scummy at all /sarcasm.

So thats a lynch... now we wait on elmo.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

lol, sorry snix, by far teh best Bah post I've seen tho.

agreed

FoS

Mokina, I don't buy the whole 'Oops my bad' thing, You could have looked at the online members list and seen that he was online, and that snarky comment to me at the end was dripping with scummy WIFOM.

I still don't like EL/Mokina as a pair and with Snix cleared up I'm even more inclined to think thats where it is. And If I am right I see me being NKd in the near future...

that is all for now.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

yea, because she dropped a hammer on someone we had ALL AGREED to let post. I had already agreed to hammer after dcorbe posted, and warned him if he did not do so in about 36-48 hours I would drop it under the assumption he was lurking.

Her hammer was incredibly opportunistic, and I wasn't saying I KNEW he was town, I was saying, she looked scummy as hell for hammering someone with out giving them a chance. <especially since he posted RIGHT after her>

I mean if she is not scum, she is the stupidest townie i have ever seen. No offence mokina, but what were you thinking just dropping the hammer? and I', sorry but you're Framing claims are all WIFOM.

If you look back yesterday I said I thought snix was town and refused to lynch him, Even when his bandwagon would have been the perfect time for a scum to jump on.

With the snix kill I can assume one of only two things, Wehave a newbie scum, <very likely> or a highly experienced scum who made this kill to create all sorts of WIFOM.

I tend to think its the former, personally, and to be completely honest I am surprised I didn't die myself.


thats all for now, gotta run, apologies if this came off angry or anything having a really bad day.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

TSN makes a good point, i agree, although I am not ready to leave mokina, you seems so easily swayed or distracted, you decided someone is scummy, then someone comes and makes a case on someone else, you agree, and change your mind nearly instantly without asking for a post of proof or a reason in some cases (see Lowell bandwagon on D1 for One example.)

Being indecisive isn't scummy, but being an opportunist is.

I will look back into Iron Man... as for now the FoS stays on Mokina.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Iron Man has been acting out of the typical townie norm, and I re-read his posts, an TBH he just seems new. Maybe he is lurking cos he doesn't know how to handle being scum, idk, but I have a sneaky suspicion he will come up town or at least not scum.

EL, I haven't lost track of my suspicion on you, but if you review my posts on D1 I felt MOkin might be your partner, and her hammer and lame excuse, and trying to get the attention off herself, and voting Iron man, well I am just more inclined to think I have a higher chance of hitting scum with her than you.

vote:Mokina

reviewed yesterday, and I don't like it.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

This is true, however, I would like more contribution from Iron Man, and if he fails to contribute,

would not mind running the risk of him coming up Town.

See Bold for why Is still think you are scum. Not minind if someone comes up town is SCUMMY! EL seriously, do you think before you say stuff?

thats like blaring sirens and holding up a sign that says I'm scum. Call it a freudian slip if you wish, but I stick with my Mokina/EL scum pair, with an off chance TSN is, as he avoided the EL wagon and ignored the Mokina situation. but TSN isn't very provable



i

[DarlaBlueEyes]

lol EL; ok, make up your mind please, first off you disagree with Mokina, she restates the same crap logic's glamourized and you "goodposting: her. Now I will say some of her posts above had viable points, but IMO you were congratulating her attack on me, which you seem unable to create yourself. You simply 'urge' others to look at me, versus, make a case.

I could take this as OMGUS from either one of you or not, and TBH I don't like TSN's play, and I just know I will die soon, because i can feel myself on a trail here, so I am saying it now, for when/if I die and this game is over, our scum is in the Mokina/El/TSN group one or the other may not be But I'd bet a lot at least two of them are.

TSN: what makes you SO convinced neither Mokina or EL are scum? Yesterday you didn't even comment on the case I brought forth, only said you thought he was town, and voted someone else.

If you have a viable reason other than 'thinking they are town' I'd love to hear it.

If I am correct with my whole Mokina/EL or TSN thing Im pretty much going it alone against the scum here. I know Lowell is VLA for a bit and some of you are new, but come on guys, I am not exactly a vet, I am still new and could use some more eyes and minds looking at the evidence at hand.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Thank you Ninja Sir, that was actually very insightful.

Will post more tonight.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

EL - typically in my experience a scum gets on a bandwagon inconspicuously vs. making a head strong case on one or two people and not swaying from it. WIFOMy coming from me I know, but its just a tip.

I do tend to operate in Black and Whites, but thats just me heh.

I am definitely interested in the Iron Man case, although I am not sold off of Mokina I'm willing to leave her alone for awhile.

unvote

how close is Iron man to a lynch? and Irene could you tell us who you think is scum?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Mokina and EL are constantly validating and defending one another, it drives me up the wall. if you guys are not scum, PLEASE stop, so I can let go of my nagging suspicions of you two.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

welcome armlx!

and I am not really ready to get on the doneyz or the iron man wagon yet simply because they lurk. I want more content from them personally.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I must say its in the back of my mind that TSN is a scum, but I have nothing to prove it with at this point.

My vote is still waffling, I dont think donkeyz is scum, i think he is just really newbie.

Iron Man could be, but I'm not convinced enough to vote yet.

Sidney cant read at all,

Lowell - possible scum, his play has been a bit flippant, but again not enough info.

Armlx/mike-zim was zilch so I come back to EL and Mokina. EL I am starting to think I may be wrong about now, considering his play today.

Of the two I suspect mokina more and you all can say im being black and white but I'm so sure mokina is scum I would even give up a signature space for whatever she wanted if she were not.

vote:mokina

[DarlaBlueEyes]

lmao mokina that did nothing to help you at all.

and I just realized I forgot ZS, He seems pretty town to me, althoguh I'd like more posts from him as well as I dont have a strong read from him either.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

lmao go ahead and lynch me, I've decided this town is hopeless and doomed to die. But Mark my words. The scum lies somewhere within TSN/Mokina/EL I haven't ever had such strong intuitions, since one of my last Mini's, In which I was correct, my first suspect was the scum, who subsequently killed me.

I see you three as incredible opportunist, bandwagoning way too much, agreeing with and validating one another while rejecting anything brought forth by others. Trying to off the lurkers as a group, in all anti-town play.

There was about one instance where Mokina/EL disagreed over each other (once each) D1/D2 and they quickly retracted their votes. TSN refused to vote for either without a truely good reason, only saying he thinks lurkers are more likely to be scum, which i can agree to to an extent, but his refusal to look at the other two based on activity is anti-town.. This is just way too much for me to deal with, when half the town is lurking. So if you must, put me out of my misery, and town..good luck. You're gonna need it.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

EL, the point of WIFOM is that theres no way to validate either side.

If I said Scum always defend each other, and you say, no they don't, and i said, well they would expect us all to believe that they would not be so dumb as to do so, so they do it, and claim its WIFOM that scum would not do that.

Its covering your tracks, IMO, I am really good with either Mokina or EL for a lynch today. I didn't like Mokina's OMGUS vote and hostile attitude honestly, thats why my vote's sitting here for now, but as it stands I would gladly hammer/vote for EL as well.

TSN is the one i have the most trouble reading, I still feel he might be scum, but I would prefer lynch one of the afore mentioned two first.

and I would like to see some of those scum tells as well EL, if you consider me not letting off the person/s I find most scummy = scum tell, Then I think you need to look up the definition of a scum tell.

And i will not lynch someone based solely on lurking, being that you are one of the more active players and incredibly scummy yourself, I have honed in on you and Mokina for the same reasons. I may be a bit black and white but thats because You have given me a ton to go on, and the lurkers have not. and most of our lurkers are newbies, now that mike was replaced I am hoping to get more input from others. Just having armlx in here is generating a lot more discussion which this game needs.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

EBWOP:

I agree on the donkeyz thing, how was he being agressive?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I am catching up guys had a busy few days and a birthday today, will post asap

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Here's how I'm seeing things:

Mokina -- IGMEOY however!! I am liking a lot of the play you have been putting forth recently, and the fact you are being replaced, I am going to

unvote

but you have quelched a lot of my suspicions and problems with you play in recent activity. 70% scum

armlx -- *making sure I am in right game* I find you agressvely scum hunting, tho some of your methods are new to me, (hypo claim) over-all you give off a very townie persona. 60% town

donkeyz - I can't decide, if he is n00b town or n00b scum, I lean towards the latter but have very little that isnt OMGUSy (coming from me) to support it . You also seem really concerned with not looking scummy. -- 60% scum

Zombie - Also more on the town side of things IMO, If I had to bet, I'd probably put you at the MOST townie player here so far, I am not a big poster and im tired as hell so if you want to know why go read back. 80% town

Lowell -- I would like more activity from you and for you to take the game more seriously. Your flippant attitude is a bit unnerving. No good read. 50/50

EL -- I still find you incredibly scummy for all the points outline in my long post D1 and your extreme wishy-washyness, you vote and FOS hop a lot, and im sick of the thats true scum hunting excuse. It seems to me you are testing the waters to see if you can get the town to bandwagon with you. Interesting how often Mokina and TSN do so. You ask why I think I am gonna die? because prior to armlx's replace and the lurkers becoming active I was the most agressive in my attacks on you and mokina (as opposed to yours and hers wishy washy any way the wind blows attacks) Typically the most threatening players to the scum die. 80% scum

TSN -- You are an incredibly hard read. I don't like your playstyle, the voting with little or no reason. You have some very credible points, but you also have a lot of experience which tbh makes me nervous and unsure of you. I lean towards you being scum but you aren't as high as mokina or EL on my list. 50% scum

Sidney -- apart from lurking I am pretty sure he is town, looking back he had a few bandwagony votes on D1 but he hasn't done anything I'd consider a slip. I would like more activity, although your recent increase is nice. 60% town

Iron Man -- (Irene ) You too have been a bit lurky, and may be the one i have the least to go on with, You're posts have generally been pretty neutral, and avoiding attention. Trying to be a voice of reason which isnt necessarily bad, but its really throwing me from reading you. I am gonna say im divided, but I would tilt you to the scum side ever so slightly. 55% scum

[DarlaBlueEyes]

ebwop:

vote: EL

[DarlaBlueEyes]

DBE wrote:
"LOOK AT ME I'M TYPING THINGS! I'm typing things!!! I'M TYPING THINGS!!!!"

unvote, vote DBE

um what?

also did you even READ my post?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

and you are mokina werent?

you need to decide if agreeing and buddying up aka WHAT YOU DID is truly buddying up or not. Else you will just be the pot calling the kettle black. Also armlx is the one buddying to me, I'm neither here nor there on him. Although being that he is in every single one of my games atm, I have a little easier time accepting his play style, as its pretty normal for him from what I've seen.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I am not ruling out donkeyz by anymeans, but I find his cases and posts to be incredibly weak, at first I thought it was just his newbiness, but now I could see it as newbie scum.

I still say we should lynch EL today, and if he flips scum, that should decide donkeyz fate.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I have a feeling you will get your desires met tomorrow TSN.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

can I just say I feel vindicated as hell. Thats a twofer my first impressions being right.

I'm pretty much tossed up between TSN, Mokina/Farside, And Donkeyz.

But I think I'll go

vote:Farsideside22

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Thats an L-2

[DarlaBlueEyes]

or one of TSN/Donkeyz is a Godfather.

I apologize Farside but it seemed like a good place to buss, thats why I was still interested in lynching you.

Whats got me wondering is the No Kill.

Either our doc (assuming we have one) protected right, or our scum are trying to mess with us.

I don't honestly see the Iron Man thing that clearly, but I will look back.

Donkeyz last comment D1 bothers me slightly.

be back soon with post on irene, oh and armlx, it was more a notice to the other players so we didn't get a rush lynch.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

oh and

unvote

for now

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Fraside is quite charming, But I still am not satisfied that she/mokina are not scum, however I don't want to lynch her while she is V/LA.

That leaves me with 2 people to suspect...

TSN - The one who preached EL's un-scummyness with little reasoning and when pressured, said the scum were sure to be among the lurkers.

Donkeyz - Generally attacks on me (the person pushing his Scum partners lynch the hardest) also his attacks were typically weak and baseless, Very scummy near the end of D2.

I honestly dont see the Iron Man thing.. Maybe I was too focus on EL d1 and D2 to notice..but I don't get that scummy vibe from him.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Oh ok, I see, I am so used to 3 scum games, keeo forgetting this is c/9ths.

I will agree TSN and Donkeys are cleared whether mokina is scum or not.

I am in agreeance with the lowell lynch at this point, I cant really understand his posts lately the attitude in them and acting as if he led the charge on EL.

I did look back on Iron Man, and he does come up as a possible scum however his recent play is farless suspicious that Lowells.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Ok, I re-read on day 1 when EL got up to a L-1 and saw how grossly Iron Man handled that, especially the random unvote saying he was cleared, and his oppurtunistic jump on dcorbe's wagon.

with 1 scum and 6 town left I think we can afford to be wrong once, but I really don't think we are here.

vote Iron Man

Lowell IGMEOY but I did meta as well and agree with armlx, and your play during d1 surrounding EL was a lot less scummy than Iron mans.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

okay then,

I want to hear from sidney and ZS today, considering ZS has been silent since EL died.

I would go so far as to clear farside, TSN, and donkeyz from all suspicion. I didn't like Mokina's play but the bread crumbing is somewhat convincing.

armlx/mike-zim - He has come out guns blazing and would have had to do some major bussing with EL.

Sidney - Hasn't done much all game, but I get the most townish and complacent vibes from him; again I would like to see more activity from him.

ZS - dropped off the radar after d2, had major distancing from EL day 1 with that big blow 'fight.' thing

I am going to be looking at those three, problem is theres not much to look at.


Also I will be somewhat V/LA this holiday weekend.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Question, D1 I think it was EL claimed he thought Mokina was a Cop. Why then is she still alive?

I forget we might have a doc or something..that could explain it.


My votes would most likely be:

ZS/Sid tied
armlx
farside
TSN
donkeyz


are there any scum roles in this game that would be investigation immune? I'm new to these open types.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

EBWOP

Thats my list of suspicion my lynch list is:

ZS
Sid
armlx

and becaus ei may be away a day or two,

vote;zombie slayer

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I dont want a lynch until ZS posts, a prod might even help, thoughts guys?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Ok, Then i shall be content waiting on him another day, but that doesn't absolve my suspicions.

I could say that his hard out fight/attack with EL day 1 was a bit off, seemed like a gable for major distancing. (I know I was at him too but I thought he was scum) He also put ZS at 90someodd% town despite the fact they seemed to be at odds during the game,

Then again Sidney and TSN are the only living members who weren't on the EL bandwagon, and I am very much inclined to believe TSN's claim.

Were down to 1 scum:6 Townies

The favor is greatly in the towns side, which is a very good thing.

My vote stands until I hear otherwise from ZS but it could easily fall on Sidney

[DarlaBlueEyes]

My opinions havent really changed much, waiting to hear from Sideney

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I think that if we lynch zombie and he ISNT scum then tomorrow its down to Armlx Sid's replce and me as the unconfirmeds.

I know my allignment and don't really include myself in the suspect list...but I am pretty sure armlx is town, so its Sid or Zombie in my books.

Lynch Zombie today, hope to hear from a replace of sid tomorrow.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Perhaps your vote is the scum tipping vote you spoke of?

I still want to see Zombies flip tho.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

well that certainly clears TSN and Donkeys

Down to armlx(mike), Me, and KOC(sid)

well I assume that was a soft claimed doc from you KOC? and I'm more inclined to think sid was less scummy than mike.

Not gonna vote yet, but it will probs go on armlx.

I'm gonna go sleep now, just saw this was open and popped in.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Wow. Man I missed a lot going to sleep xD

But I didn't die.. YAY!

GO TOWN!! =D

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Apologies for the Lynch Irene, but at least we caught those slimey scum buggers xD

EL -- You played well, You *almost* convinced me you weren't scum xD

[DarlaBlueEyes]

LOL!!

I really don't know what it was EL, i just had a feeling about you xD

Woman's Intuition

[DarlaBlueEyes]

well I would be suspicious of me too, I was tunnel visioned on EL, and thought Mokina was his partner xD