Open 74 - C/9ths (Game Over!) before 601

[Eldritch Lord]

Yeah... My vote is staying on EL for the time being. His constant emotional attacks, I think, are traps, as I get the feeling that he is actually remaining completely logical and calm throughout all of this.

Alright, whatever, I can't argue with gut feelings. I'm not scum...

Unvote

Vote: Dcorbe

I agree that he is a good lynch choice for Day 1 due to semi-lurking, and that giant set-up for a mislynch. His defense was extremely weak and retreat-ish whereas before he had seemed so certain. Mokina's posts will be thoroughly investigated before I let anyone hammer Dcorbe, don't be surprised if my vote changes back to her in my next post. I feel something is just not right.

[Eldritch Lord]

Post History And Beyond:

First post is Post Number 67:

Sorry for the delay in posting guys. I confirmed my role PM and then completely forgot about the game.

I owe you a read, MTF...

Okay, good excuse...kind of. Still semi-lurking, though in an understandable fashion.

Second post is Post Number 69:

Vote Mokina wanna cyber?

Despite the fact that there is some actual action at this point, he totally random votes for someone with a vote already sitting on them. Forgivable in itself, but when lined up with other posts...

Third Post isn't until 119:

The signal:noise ratio in here is still a little bit high. It seems like nobody is really giving any compelling reasons to hold their votes the way they are and the ones on the defensive are doing a pretty poor job of defending themselves.

All I have to say right now is this:

It seems like some of the people pushing the eldritch wagon right now are the ones who lurk the most right now.

It really sounds like a scum-driven wagon to me.

So.. based on that..

FoS: Eldritch Lord

because I'd like to hear more of what you have to say first

FoS: Daria and ZombieSlayer
Unvote

This is as close to reasoning as he gets, he bashes others for lurking and calls it a scum-driven wagon, but he himself has not posted in 60 posts. Behold the FoS on the EL "scum-driven" wagon, which might justify a future vote but also FoS' the leaders of the wagon to make sure his arse is covered either way.

Two posts later:

It really looks like you're trying to deflect attention off onto your aggressors with this post.

Unvote (just because I screwed up my tags with the last post and I want to make my intentions clear)

Vote: Snix

He goes in an entirely different direction only 2 posts later, either he is on very sporadically, or realized his mistake in the post 2 above this one and had to abandon his lurking to change it. Furthermore, this is an existing bandwagon and he offers little to no reasoning beyond "It looks like you're defending yourself while scumhunting." <--Read: Possible straw-man, waiting for his justification.

I would seriously slow down with calling anyone else here emotional. Nobody likes to be called ignorant or have their judgement called into question constantly. That itself is a knee-jerk response.

Pointless meta ad-hom, ignoring. Next couple posts are the same.

Seriously, wouldn't it have been easier for you to say "everyone is alive?"

She was clarifying...strange that you would find yourself able to make a comment on this and not what was actually going on in the game since your last scumhunter post before that took place quite a while before this one. Perhaps you had nothing to add, this is nothing extremely remarkable.

We can always put your theory on a Mokina/EL scum alliance to the test. We can lynch EL today (since his bandwagon is already being pushed, he's the logical choice).

We've got a 1/12 chance of being correct but whether we are correct or not, it would be a very educational experience.

If he turns out to be scummy, we can build a strong case to push a Mokina wagon tomorrow.

If he turns out to be a townie, the Mokina gets a pass, and we can begin examining some of the relationships around both of them.

Discussion?

Hm...I don't think I need to say anything about this post except that he is setting up a Mokina lynch for the next day, kind of like what TSN noticed with DBE.

But here comes the cover-up:

Please note I'm NOT advocating that we rush towards a Lynch. I would like to see how others react to this idea, and keep the conversation going.

It, like the other cover-up post earlier in his history, comes almost immediately after his first post as though he realized he committed some huge slip. Not a case in and of itself, but a big point in the graph.

If you do come up townie when you get lynched, it won't be in vein. It will provide us valuable information to go on for the next round of scum hunting because you've interacted with just about everyone here.

If you come up scummy, all of a sudden those pushing your wagon look extremely clean.

Don't take it personally that you're being lynched on day 1.

Certainty, the kind I shared that I would be lynched. He is still setting up the next mislynch with the "if you come up townie, we can get those other people" as though he had not contributed to my wagon.

I hope you're right and he's scum because with this statement (at least in my mind) you've completely tied yourself to his fate. You seem to be pushing his wagon awfully hard. You're going to look EXTREMELY scummy if he turns up town.

Anyone agree with that assessment of the situation? Or am I off base here.

-Daniel

TSN answered this and justified most of my reasoning for the vote.

I probably used the wrong words to express the fact that I was trying to get Darla to be a little more careful about proceeding with the lynch, even though I jumped on the wagon and left him at L-1 for a little while. I can see how that action can be perceived as scummy but it really wasn't my intention.

I'm going to back off my vote now (and look even scummier)

Unvote

Take it as you will,, but if I have to take heat for this exchange, so be it.

Backing off in such a manner almost makes it seem as though he's anticipating the scum-points he's about to earn. That still does not make the scumminess of this point disappear, it exists and the attempt to deflect it by anticipating it is pretty obvious in my eyes.

That is my case against Dcorbe. I am too lazy to proof-read it at the moment, so please deal with grammatical errors when quoting me if you happen to find them.

[Snix]

This town seems very easily lead.

Let's look at it like this:

First we have a massive EL campaign, he's even put at L-1. He, although addressing some points didn't really seem to defend himself and instead complained about being stuck in a corner. Almost the whole town was set on him being either scum or just very bad town with certain people trying to pad the landing if/when he turned up town.

Then he finds this 'smoking gun' about Mokina vote hopping and basically just following whatever trend the town had at that point in the game. This lead to the deterioration of the EL wagon at a steady clip and many people were planning on looking over Mokina.

After that TSN posts and attack on Dcorbe and everyone looks away from Mokina and starts jumping on Dcorbe.

My vote stays on Mokina because frankly her almost incessant following of others and her insta-backtrack when town, most notably DBE, lost interest in EL. It reeks of someone trying to look like a town leader without actually taking responsibility.

Dcorbe's attempt to pad a mislynch is interesting but it could just be because he is cautious. If other more convincing arguments do come up though I'll do a reread.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I unvoted to prevent a Hammer, I was going to reread, and if I am honest I really don't think Dcorbe is scum, I really think EL is, but am willing to let it go for now.

Either way I am thinking Mokina would be a good lynch as well, Although I'd happily lynch EL as well. I just think that EL has a little bit more excuse for scumslips/scumtells than mokina even if this is her 2nd game.

vote:Mokina

(If we had lynched EL and he wasn't scum I woulda taken full responsibility btw, but at least I would have had reasoning for the vote from me vs. just being a bandwagoner. )

[Eldritch Lord]

Darla-if you or the rest of the players have anything to say in regards to specific posts by Mokina, I would be very interested to hear your perspective, as I see far more in dcorbe's posts than in hers.

Not a challenge, I could deal with a Mokina lynch myself, I'm just seeking another perspective.

This would be exceptionally helpful if it came from TSN, Mike-Zim (who probably needs replacing), Iron Man, or ZombieSlayer as they are the players I am most sure are town. Though Darla/Snix you are very intelligent posters and it would be foolish of me not to at least consider what you say in regards to specific post-quotes or points.

Dcorbe, I'm looking for a case-refute or I'm sticking to you like hot glue.

[donkeyz12212]

I'm a bit lost in the thread as to how things turn out the way it does.

The votes are so different and just all over the place all the time. I would prefer a lynch that would give out the most information as opposed to anything else.

I still favor a Darla lynch as she seems to be on most wagons or started a bunch of wagons. Also if Darla seems to turn up scum, it would make Eldritch more townie in my opinion.

There is a bunch of wishy washness.

unvote, vote: DarlaBlueEyes

[Mokina]

My vote stays on Mokina because frankly her almost incessant following of others and her insta-backtrack when town, most notably DBE, lost interest in EL. It reeks of someone trying to look like a town leader without actually taking responsibility.

My turn to defend, I guess.

I place pressure, and people talk. And frankly, why vote for someone who doesn't already have suspicion on them? If you're the first one to vote for a player, they aren't going to care. They aren't going to slip, reveal their scummy nature, whatever. They're going to laugh at you. At the same time, I avoid joining too late in the wagon, because a quicklynch on D1 is always a bad choice.

I don't regret my voting record at all. We have quite a few revealing posts now, and enough puzzle pieces to assemble a rather full picture of almost everyone.

Lurker, lurker, where are you?

Prod Request: mike-zim

Presumably, Lowell is still playing, despite a lack of contribution.

FoS: Lowell

[sideney]

Like i say, i see a connection between TSN and EL, and the last vote of EL confirm my worries. However the two that have vote for Mokina, Snix and DarlaBlueEyes, are becoming suspect either, because i think that Mokina is obviously pro-town, or at least, the most pro-town scum that i have seen...

[mike-zim]

I am here. I just cant log on at work for some reason. i log in and it take me back to the way it was before i logged in. Very frustrating. When i get home i have work to do as i am studying.

Anyway, there seems to be alot of jumping around and i am really finding it hard to keep up with why everyone changes so quickly.

i am going to stick with my vote for El. Sorry dude but i thinkyou deflected very well in your "look at mokina" post.

If i am wrong then perhaps Mokina should be looked at but at this point i am going with my gut instinct

Confirm Vote: Eldrith

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Oh, gut instinct. So conveniently explaining away "I don't know why I'm voting for this person."

Donkeyz: Which of Darla's bandwagons are scummy?

I don't really see the case on mokina.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

donkeys, again I think you mean well, but your case is really weak.

I have only led one bandwagon (EL) and only voted for two people (I don't think I actually made a random vote, cant remember atm, but if I did, it wasn't an informed vote, of whch I have only made two.)

As to EL:

You yet again have flip flopped, you started the case on Mokina and now you want it explained? I am still not convinced we don't have a Mokina/El scum pair but I am less inclined to believe it after Mokina voted EL, on Day 1.

I can't say I find either particularly townie, but a Mokina lynch might inform us of more. I still can't shake the feeling that EL is scum, but his more recent actions seem more genuine. I will hold onto those suspicions for now, pending what info we gather from the lynch.


Mike, your post being so wishy washy after heavy lurkdom concerns me. Please post more or have yourself replaced, you do the town no service by being so inactive.

[Eldritch Lord]

Watching and listening, I have an explanation as well as some points to make.

Will post later.

[Lowell]

Eldritch is definately changing in my view. He's not a newbie or as town as I once thought.

[mike-zim]

Wishy Washy? look this is my first game i am trying to participate as much as i can it is not easy. i didn't realise it took this much time just to get through the first day. i am learning.

As for who is scum and who is town i havent got the fogiest so i am going with my gut instinct and wont just change my vote because everyone else is.

I am not going to be so easily led i am afraid.

please do not misconstrue this as an emotional post, it isn't i am just clarifying my position so everyone knows i am not being "wishy washy" just that i am trying to learn and watch.

[ZombieSlayer54]

Wishy Washy? look this is my first game i am trying to participate as much as i can it is not easy. i didn't realise it took this much time just to get through the first day. i am learning.

As for who is scum and who is town i havent got the fogiest so i am going with my gut instinct and wont just change my vote because everyone else is.

I am not going to be so easily led i am afraid.

please do not misconstrue this as an emotional post, it isn't i am just clarifying my position so everyone knows i am not being "wishy washy" just that i am trying to learn and watch.

Clueless noob excuse still does not apply, just so you know.

Gut instinct? Gut instinct is only there for when you have equal evidence for and against something. You will notice that you have massive amounts of evidence (13 pages worth) with which to make your decision. Do not make your decision on "gut instinct".

[Eldritch Lord]

To be honest, I would be content with a lynch of either dcorbe or mokina because I feel that my cases against the both of them are strong.

I'm going to unvote for now:

unvote

And re-read both of them to determine for certain which of the two, at this time, deserves my vote more.

You yet again have flip flopped, you started the case on Mokina and now you want it explained? I am still not convinced we don't have a Mokina/El scum pair but I am less inclined to believe it after Mokina voted EL, on Day 1.

After a re-read on the favor of TSN I've found my case against dcorbe to be stronger. I am not flip-flopping with my unvote, because I feel that this situation warrants further consideration. After doing a skim on my Mokina investigation posts I feel that the vote could really go either way.

[Eldritch Lord]

EBWOP: Also, Darla, the only reason I asked for other people's takes on the Mokina investigation is because I feel that the situation is so teeter-tottery and want to get the rest of those (especially those not posting) involved in the conversation to see if there was another perspective.

[mike-zim]

Wishy Washy? look this is my first game i am trying to participate as much as i can it is not easy. i didn't realise it took this much time just to get through the first day. i am learning.

As for who is scum and who is town i havent got the fogiest so i am going with my gut instinct and wont just change my vote because everyone else is.

I am not going to be so easily led i am afraid.

please do not misconstrue this as an emotional post, it isn't i am just clarifying my position so everyone knows i am not being "wishy washy" just that i am trying to learn and watch.

Clueless noob excuse still does not apply, just so you know.

Gut instinct? Gut instinct is only there for when you have equal evidence for and against something. You will notice that you have massive amounts of evidence (13 pages worth) with which to make your decision. Do not make your decision on "gut instinct".

Just so you know, Gut instinct is where you have a feeling about something and go with it regardless of the evidence. Even if there was overwhelming evidence for one side you still take the other. So i think your understanding of gut instinct needs looking at.

I never said i was a clueless noob. i said that is did not realise the game took this much time. i do now and will try my best to participate more frequently.

As for my vote it seems like you are a bit upset that i will not change my vote by way of attacking the reason for doing so. Just because everyone else is changing votes frequently does not mean that i will. If i come accross something that really sways me then i will change but for now i believe my suspicions are correct.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I am not liking this.

EL is so screamingly wishy washy I am reconsidering,

Starting from about 3 pages ago, He is CONVINCED it is Lowell, Then He is CONVINCED it is Me, Then he is CONVINCED it is Mokina, Then he is CONVINCED it is dcorbe, Now he Is Convinced its Mokina Again?

not liking this. Going back to my first intuition.

unvote; vote EL

this is just way to wishy washy, Make up your mind and try to prove a case instead of jumping on whatever is most possible and popular at the time.

Mokina, his scummy actions are saving you, but I am not convinced you're not actually scum, but he is just getting worse, I thought I could Ignore it, but I can't.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Just so you know, Gut instinct is where you have a feeling about something and go with it regardless of the evidence. Even if there was overwhelming evidence for one side you still take the other. So i think your understanding of gut instinct needs looking at.

But gut instinct is scummy. It hides the reasons that you're voting. Which posts of el make you feel like he's scum? Why do they make you feel he's scum?

[Eldritch Lord]

Darla, you are straw-manning me. I said that I felt I had strong cases against the both of them, if you'd notice, I've done more public proof in those two posts alone than you have this entire game.

I said I would re-read and reconsider my vote. That is saving judgment for a later time, but all things considered:

Vote: Dcorbe

I feel my case against him was stronger after reconsidering things.

[Mokina]

I am not liking this.

EL is so screamingly wishy washy I am reconsidering,

Starting from about 3 pages ago, He is CONVINCED it is Lowell, Then He is CONVINCED it is Me, Then he is CONVINCED it is Mokina, Then he is CONVINCED it is dcorbe, Now he Is Convinced its Mokina Again?

not liking this. Going back to my first intuition.

unvote; vote EL

this is just way to wishy washy, Make up your mind and try to prove a case instead of jumping on whatever is most possible and popular at the time.

Mokina, his scummy actions are saving you, but I am not convinced you're not actually scum, but he is just getting worse, I thought I could Ignore it, but I can't.

Can't agree with that; mostly because it's close to my own playstyle. I create a bunch of justification for a vote, act extremely convinced, and then quit pressuring them when they've said what's on their mind. EL appears to be doing the same thing.

If you want wishy-washiness, look at Darla's perception of EL. She successively votes and unvotes him over the course of the last few pages. I'm not saying wishy-washiness is necessarily scummy, but it's hypocritical to accuse someone else of being tentative with their votes.

Dcorbe looks like an interesting prospect, and I'll look into it.

Mike-zim seems fairly clean, but lurkish. He would do well to remember that lurking townies are of no use to us.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Can't agree with that; mostly because it's close to my own playstyle. I create a bunch of justification for a vote, act extremely convinced, and then quit pressuring them when they've said what's on their mind. EL appears to be doing the same thing.

That's why I am not voting for mokina or el, nor do I anticipate doing so in the near future. People are getting on them for moving around, but that's what you do day 1.

[Lowell]

I'm actually going to

unvote, vote mokina

. There's some ever-so-slight buddying going on there.

[mike-zim]

please explain to me what lurkerish is? so i can try and get of more use!

any way my reason for voting for El is that when the pressure was on he was trying to cling onto any shread he had to get the finger pointed else where. Just seemed a little too desperate to me. But i could be mis reading it totally.