Micro 387: Double Day Unlimited (GAME OVER)

[Xayzeck]

i forgot this started because i didn't ego post oidh;rovuinsdfuiva;etb

[Xayzeck]

so sorry everybody let me catch up realllly quick

[Xayzeck]

HAHA right so

this game is messy is fuck isn't it with all this voting

[Xayzeck]

Oka should be town, but hell I don't want him anywhere near endgame. Aggro as fuck right out of the gate, and I'm seeing it as townaggro more than scum aggro. His early posts seem fixed on "who's scum", which i like. What I hate though, is his constant "Let's get out of RVS" "I'm trying to get out of RVS". It's the same as "oh look at how protown I am" "look at me i'm obvtown". It's annoying, could be scum, but at this point he could just be trying to get townreads so he has more freedom in his play, which I do as town too. Also the townpoints I have on him outweigh the scumpoints, so I'll have him somewhere in my townpile.

NM leans scum mainly for his early argument with Oka, and how most of his questions are just....eh. I'm not sure where the scumhunting is in his ISO.

Rose I think is town, esp with 83, just seemed like a very townoriented thought process which I like.

I don't see why people are ok with Scramblevotes though, he hasn't produced enough content for me to confidently vote him. I mean, yeah that post sucked, but still need more from him

ZZZX has a good vote, but really just null because 1 post.

flubber....could be scum maybe? There isn't enough there for me to be sure, but his scumhunting is kinda all over and not really focused on anything, the questions he asks doesn't really have much relevance to alignment.

kyndy has too little for me to tell too. Needs more content. (but who am I to talk lol)

ProHawk...probably leans scum too. Unless he always posts like this? But I have no idea where he's going or what he's reading into with questions like his

[Xayzeck]

Anything relevant to say?

Hey I don't type in one second

[Xayzeck]

Can't get behind a vote like this.

What can you get behind?

A scum read I like or agree with.

Ah an amazing interaction right here >.>

[Xayzeck]

VOTE: Flubber
VOTE: ProHawk

Would vote NM too but I'd like to have D1A be longer than this

[Xayzeck]

NM you still scumread xay? He seems town to me.

eyyy talk to me

are my reads shit?

[Xayzeck]

@Oka. There was nothing to compel me to unvote

There's no reason for you to unvote?

Well there was no reason for you to vote at all, since the only problem you have with me that you have voiced is that I haven't posted, and that is not like me (never specified if it wasn't like townme or scumme either).

I'm posting now, you gonna read me or not? Nothing compelling for you to unvote doesn't tell me at all what you think of me, unless you're reading me as null still, to which I will probably hammer yo ass

not really

but maybe

[Xayzeck]

NM you still scumread xay? He seems town to me.

Town? Town how? Vibe town? Is it the good kind of town?

[Xayzeck]

lol that post above is a joke btw

NM you still scumread xay? He seems town to me.

eyyy talk to me

are my reads shit?

All are good except rosey, flubber, and hawkman

What's bad about above 3?

[Xayzeck]

Tell me why I should unvote Xay specifically, and why me not townreading him after 3 content posts makes me scum?

oh god pls

3 content posts

is 3 such a big deal

DO YOU WANT ME TO QUOTE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF PROHAWK'S POSTS FROM WHEN YOU VOTED HIM TO WHEN YOU UNVOTED

AND TELL ME IF THE CONTENT THERE IS MORE SUBSTANTIAL THEN MY "3 content posts"

if the number of posts I have is something that's concerning you, then i will hammer yo ass

because Prohawks ISO is one BIG problem that you guys should be talking about, but god I don't know why he's getting townread.

[Xayzeck]

VLA for 24-48 hours

(did I actually talk about that? )

this man here has a similar ISO

[Xayzeck]

This is the most confident I felt Xay town in a long time.

God this line sucks so much too

it's like blatant buddying almost

you went off like "Xay get in here and play with me" so I get in here and I do all this typing

And I'm honestly really disappointed that I've actually had to dedicate posts just for you to push you to comment on my reads

like pls

i don't care if you think i'm town, you're making too big of a deal of me being town and NM not wanting to unvote

what are your reads? do you agree or disagree with mine?

[Xayzeck]

I'm currently townreading Prohawk because the way him and Oka pushed my wagon at the start was too similar for them to be partners and I'm scumreading Oka And if you want us to be talking about it then start a conversation on the topic

Why are you scumreading Oka?

Isn't that a little weak for a townread? Like you reviewed Flubber and thought he was scum. Why can't you ISO Prohawk and come to the exact same conclusion?

And I DID bring it up, I just didn't request explicitly to talk about it.

I voted him even, seriously.

Considering the fact that he seems to be a universal townread, I'd figure you guys would say something about me voting him.

AND I'VE BRINGING UP THIS TOPIC NOW, ALRIGHT, SINCE THINGS HAVE TO BE EXPLICITLY BROUGHT UP TO BE DISCUSSED

PROHAWK'S ISO IS A BIG PROBLEM

CAN WE DISCUSS THIS

[Xayzeck]

Tell me why I should unvote Xay specifically, and why me not townreading him after

3

content posts makes me scum?

You kinda did

[Xayzeck]

And doe Oka not remind you of Gerrymander mafia at all?

Hm, I don't think I'm good at differentiating his scum and town meta just yet, so I'm laying of meta tells and trying to read him just for this game for now. What similar traits have you picked up that suggests to you he's scum?

I'm not disagreeing though, he's on my list of "people I don't want near endgame"

[Xayzeck]

Well he's active lurking.

What else would you like to discuss?

Is that scum or town to you?

What's your read on him currently?

[Xayzeck]

Scum. But the game is 6 pages long right now so null read atm.

please be joking

[Xayzeck]

I asked him to prove his comparison of me to a lad with two or three posts, where I have more than quadruple that.

It's not about how much you post, it's about what you post, and everything you have posted up until recently is about the same as what ZZZX has posted. One liners, often no more than 5 words or so, with no real direction to it.

[Xayzeck]

Flubber is still probably my favourite lynch for today tho

[Xayzeck]

although I usually provide it without directly stating it

majority of your iso didn't have this, which was the big problem I had with you.

Your iso consisted mostly of short posts and naked votes with no explanation whatsoever, only until recently, when I called you out on it, then you started to actually produce content.

Which boggles me, because you somehow managed to get townreads, and that wasn't something I wanted to discuss with you, it was something I wanted to discuss with everyone who was townreading you, because I don't understand how they managed a townread on you at all.

[Xayzeck]

Also you've made posts that don't really move the game forward, that lead to boring endings that don't reveal anything about alignment.

[Xayzeck]

flubber is an interesting lynch. I'm up with that, however his lynch will not get us much info at this point since his interactions are extremely limited except with prohawk. He definitely has some scum traits.

You're buddies with him?

[Xayzeck]

Can't get behind a vote like this.

What can you get behind?

Oka, lurking scum, or active scum?

posts like these, often followed up with an answer, but where are these points now that you are producing substantial content

tell me, what did you hope to achieve with these questions, and how would they help you figure out whether they were town/scum?

[Xayzeck]

How does that even remotely suggest buddying

"yes flubber is scummy and he's a good lynch and that's interesting but let's not lynch him because he lacks interactions"

If it's a scumlynch, it's a scumlynch. I could care less about interactions. Scumlynch is a scumlynch, interactions and associations are a bonus.

[Xayzeck]

ah right, you didn't say we shouldn't lynch him, sorry about that.

but you get the idea, right? the "yes let's lynch but it's not a good lynch" kind of thing?

though that point is a lot weaker now

[Xayzeck]

Flubber was being very non-committal, so I asked him what he commits to. I was hoping to get some reads out of him, but he just came back with a generic answer. Same with Oka, I wanted him to provide some reads, but he also came back with a generic answer. Both responses look scummy to me. Why didn't you get anything out of them?

I did on flubber, not on Oka. Your question to Oka was super hard to answer, and that's not really how you ask for reads? I don't think there's a definite active/lurker group either, and even so, why do you think splitting up the playerlist this way would be effective?

Also, even after these interactions, no votes?

[Xayzeck]

I know. It doesn't mean we should use the double day by rushing the first lynch.

Why do you feel it's rushing?

[Xayzeck]

Walls to be read, yet I don't have time that can be spent

Oka's definitely climbing up my scumlist tho

[Xayzeck]

UNVOTE: Prohawk

VOTE: Oka

Flubber, likewise, is on my lynchlist, along with Oka probably. Preference for Flubber, of course.

I'd like hammer to come soon, ideally we should get the first hammer over and the second phase of the day with minimum a week left. More would be nice, though.

kyndy is climbing up the scumlist slowly, rose is up the town, and hawk is admittedly slightly more town than when I first read him. Like rose said, not my preferred lynch for today.

I think NM would be easier to read with an Oka flip, but I am more confident in a Flubber flip, so that can wait.

Scrambles is also a good candidate, but that's for the next day phase, since the wagon is nonexistent at the moment, but I think most of the playerlist has pushed Scrambles aside for to focus on other wagons. We'll get back to that slot soon, because it needs some votes too imo.

[Xayzeck]

thanks for your great reads

awaiting the great hammer

[Xayzeck]

If you don't want Oka, Flubber is fine with me too.

Really, I'm not letting either of them get near endgame anyway, so I don't care which happens first, the other will probably happen today anyway

[Xayzeck]

If i hammer myself and flip town will you guys pls murder hawkman?

Sounds amazing. Really. <.<

[Xayzeck]

UNVOTE: Oka
VOTE: ZZZX

Flubber > ZZZX

[Xayzeck]

I won't allow Oka to make it to end game. If you decide he isn't the optimal lynch for today, that's fine.

If you want ZZZX though, I'll have to disagree. Flubber, I'm cool with. kyndy > ZZZX > NM > everyone else is probably the order of my preferences.

[Xayzeck]

Why is it a natural town reation? I'm not sure I see it.

[Xayzeck]

lol my wiki is updated i should get around to that soon.

Oka, what is your top lynch preference at the moment?

[Xayzeck]

Can you really not tell?

I'm interested in his top, and as you can see:

either flubber or mr.hawk.

He doesn't seem to be able to make up his mind.

[Xayzeck]

ZZZX is lurk, but that doesn't specifically mean town/scum.

Of course, keep lurking, then I wouldn't really mind. But there's no compelling evidence that points to ZZZX scum, unlike Flubber/Oka and so on.

[Xayzeck]

We've already established this?

Well, I thought we kinda established the first lynch was Oka/Flubber, but with that ZZZX vote I'm not so sure anymore.

Can we please just do one of them? A flip would be hella useful.

[Xayzeck]

hi xay there is two scum so I need to find two people i want to lynch since they are scum .

I need to fill in all the blanks

I realise that having 2 scumreads is normal, they're the people you think to be scum together.

What I'm looking for is the one you're most confident will flip scum, independent of buddies. Would it be Flubber or Hawk?

[Xayzeck]

VOTE: Flubber

That's both on L-1, I'd really appreciate waking up to a flip

Hey love ya

Well top lynch is Flubber since I don't want to die.

Hah I sure want you to though :b

[Xayzeck]

Generally I find that Oka tries his best to emulate town meta as scum.

So his early game is often the same.

Probably though, once he gets run up, his speed dies out, so I've gotten more confident in Oka-scum.

[Xayzeck]

im most confident of a hawk scum but none of you seem to agree with me

Maybe, but not today. My biggest concern was his ISO, didn't seem to go anywhere and didn't seem to lead to anything alignment indicative. He at least has been able to justify himself, so he's not in my lynchpool. For now, anyways.

[Xayzeck]

The flubber and oka wagon are the same people basically.

Indeed.

Rosey, just hammer one, at this point I would just like to have a lynch. A flip would be incredibly useful right about now.

[Xayzeck]

Proddodgey

So people I'm probably going to focus on:
scrambles, hep, Oka

Would elaborate but i'm super sleepy so i'll go to sleep and to this tomorrow

[Xayzeck]

I DON'T HAVE TIME NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I was considering calling for V/La but I was convinced myself that I could finish up this homework, but groupmates are lagging behind and I have to prioritize my work, sorry about this.

Responding to the prod for now, light content tomorrow hopefully.

Still like an Oka lynch due to previously mentioned meta arguments.

Not sure about Hawkie and other wagons yet, so I will refrain from voting until then. Still got time for me to catch up.

[Xayzeck]

VOTE: Oka

I'm pretty confident in that vote there.

I was thinking Hawkie scum too, but with Oka on Hawkie I'm not too sure, so I'll hold that off. Rosey is still town, NM is climbing up the townlist. Adrien could be town, same with Hep.

Scrambles is my go to lynch if for some reason, this Oka lynch doesn't take off, but this Oka lynch is a good lynch.

[Xayzeck]

This game is so fucking cluttered.

Droog vs Adrien - I don't see the point in this, doesn't look like it's going anywhere, it's clogging up the thread, and if you guys gave each other a chance you'd resolve whatever problems you have pretty quick. You two seem to be arguing with the mindset that "I've caught this guy, he's scum, I'm not letting this go". Really, take a step back, look at your points, and realise that your cases aren't built on much. If you have questions you want answered, ask them to each other. Seriously, I'm trying to follow this back and forth and I've got no fucking clue why you two are voting each other.

Rather, I've got no clue why Oka hasn't been lynched yet.

[Xayzeck]

VOTE: rosey

Fight me 1v1.

Sorry for triple posting

This read flip tho

[Xayzeck]

xay do you still think my case on adrien is crap

Well.....

Him confusing the points is scummy? No. Him pointing it out is protown? Do you disagree with that? Additional information is always good, so I agree that it helps town knowing that they do not have daytalk. Is it more likely scum notice minute details? Yes. Both of these are valid points.

Can you quote where you explicitly asked for his opinion on Oka?

How is it obvious manipulation by replying to your opinion that calling out the no daytalk = scummy?

The rest I will check the real posts myself, but time, it's late, exams to tomorrow

tl;dr yeah it's pretty crap idek why you are so confident, save for that last chunk that has some validity. maybe.

[Xayzeck]

Xayzeck, if an Oka lynch were to go through right now, who would you want to lynch tomorrow, town vs scum flip?

That depends on who dies, too.

I'd have to review ISOs to be sure though, somewhere in kyndyslot-ZZZXslot-Hawkie. I'm not exactly sure myself not that one yet.

[Xayzeck]

Guy why haven't we lynched Oka yet

Please tell me

WHY

[Xayzeck]

My main scum read is rosey for doing a quick flip onto me

What flip

where

from what to what?

[Xayzeck]

Rather, I've got no clue why Oka hasn't been lynched yet.

I would like to hear some of your other reads.

I will continue to quote this.

le town:
moi, rosey, nm - these are in no particular order. NM started out kinda bad, but he started towning (can't remember when). rosey's been steady town

le i'm not sure:
adrien - given there's that droog vs adrien thing, i'm leaning adrien to be the better player in it, since droog's arguments seem misplaced. so it's more of droog's scum i don't think they're scum together i'm not confident he's town

le nullscum:
hawkie - started from scum, got townier, not getting any townier. after thinking about it a bit, you could be scum with oka
droog - as above, bad case, idek what he's doing

le scum:
oka - part reactions, part meta, part play. it's a mix of everything amazing

[Xayzeck]

oh i left out heph

who's kyndy slot

who i would put with adrien

i think i've played with heph before? he's a little more open up and confident, quite newb iirc, so i'd lean town, but that's more of vibes so i'm not slotting him as town.

[Xayzeck]

that depends on why you think she's scum

because meta, because you deny meta, because your play in general lacks that protownness that normal you would have if you were town

why can't you be scum with hawk?

[Xayzeck]

meta meta meta meta meta meta.

Did you not endure an entire game of players shouting and raging at me for meta stuff? Is meta really that useful? Is your case on me really going to be all about meta?

Here's the big problem.

I get that people don't like meta, but I'd expect anyone as town to welcome meta, and if the somehow as town, you get scumread through meta, then naturally you'd be able to defend yourself.

That's natural, even if you dislike meta.

But none of that has happened. None of this is really meta anymore, meta was a started, they way you denied it immediately is scummy as fuck.

Is meta useful? Yeap. Is my case on you all about meta? I don't think I've expressed once in this game that my scumread on you was solely meta.

[Xayzeck]

notmafia votes are dumb

adrien votes are meh

oka votes should be here, don't know why they aren't

droog could be town now

i need to look at isos

[Xayzeck]

Notmafia is scum.

I am 99% sure of it. Or NotMAfia just made a terribad play. But we still tmr. Depends on the flip though.

If heph flips scum we can continue voting, if he flips town we NL.

why is it terribad?

[Xayzeck]

Are you saying votes on me are meh (and votes on NM are dumb) of that the votes I have MADE are meh and the votes NM have made are dumb? If the former, that means you have a townread on NM and I would like to hear about it if you do. Also, your read on droog also flipped. What caused that?

I'm saying NM's vote isn't the best.

Yes I have a townread on NM, I thought I established that long ago.

droog was scum for bad case, but he could be town just because he's trying to push the game forward.

What do you want to know about NM? Rather, why do you scumread him again? For the hammer? Because if you do that's kinda dumb.

[Xayzeck]

Xay's tunnel on Oka is strange to me. He won't comment to any of my specified questions, and I don't recall a smoking gun case from him yet he insists Oka is pratically conf-scum.

As scum, that would make no sense at all, would it.

I mean, hold a tunnel and if it somehow gets through then that townflip's gonna mess me up, right?

If you're arguing from the "he doesn't need to take a strong stance on others", then maybe, but town can tunnel just as much as scum can tunnel.

I'm confident in Okascum, because I can read Oka fairly well. If nothing else, lynch him before lylo, at LEAST. He should get nowhere close to lylo.

And if I have ignored your questions, sorry, but I'm sure I've ignored plenty of others too.

[Xayzeck]

350 Says rosey town
382 Prohawk makes a good point, Oka doesn't address it. He votes Prohawk for jumping off the wagon, which is ok, and he backs up his ZZZX vote by "you voted him too" which makes absolutely no sense. Also doesn't answer the question at all, so his answer is almost completely unrelated. Logically for town you scumhunt on the townwagons, why isn't he doing that here? Because his buddy is on it? Maybe.
400 Around here is where I bring up Okameta, and I only do so because I've played with him before. Typically, he's more aggro and upbeat as town, and more lazy and quiet as scum. Logically, you'd try to emulate your town meta, and I'd imagine that's why so many people commented about his overaggroness early game, probably him overcompensating. Since then though, I'm sure most of you have noticed his play has died down to just about only defending himself and just lurking about. There are some pretty stark differences between his town and scum meta, and here's the big point: As town, he'd bloody love it. If anybody doubts him, AND they're using a metatell on him as town, he knows to god that logically he should be read as town, and if he isn't, then whoever is metatelling him is probably twisting. He knows I know his meta fairly well, and I can easily back this up with some of his games, hell I'm sure he's mentioned them too in this game. So once I bring up meta, his immediate reaction is to deny metatells, and sell them off as useless or unreliable, because he knows it won't work in his favour. TownOka may do the same, but he'd welcome it if anything. ScumOka will deny the hell out of it.
432 434 440 442 444 445 447 449 451 All perfect examples of his play dying out, lots of fluff, lots of oneliners, lots of half assing. Also the way he pulls of Hawk, that's not town. 455 Who in the world would just unvote they're scumread and say "ok you win you're town"? Every post before that doesn't look like he went through much or if not any convincing, he just backed off for no clear reason.
457 458 Read flip! "I want to lynch him even if he isn't scum" What's wrong with that? I recall a ton of ZZZX votes, saying you want to lynch him, and I'm sure as hell none of you could confidently say he was scum or town, you were all just voting because he lurked. This is perfectly fine, scummy to some, but it's amazing how you blew it up to the top of your scumlist, and what's this...
459 You literally just started scumreading her and then wanted to 1v1. What town does this? Let go of their scumread so easily, pick one up so quickly, and 1v1 over a small stance? This is not town, this is scum just doing whatever it can to get another lynch happening.
461 463 466 468 more fluff and uselessness
469 yay for naked votes.
474 485 a little more fluff
524 Again, he still insist on the 1v1. And nothing else but this, and fluff/lowcontent posts.
554 FSO is someone else who played in a game both Oka and I were in. This game, Oka has made references to players and past games we had, it bothers me the hell out. It counts as meta, and it's so disturbing, it's like early game he did this a bunch, maybe because he had that aggro start and wanted me to do meta to townread him.



I'm lazy, lunch is here.

[Xayzeck]

droog was scum for bad case

?LL??????

please explain i do not remember this

It was the adrien case that you did and asked me to comment on and I did and you never replied

[Xayzeck]

As scum, that would make no sense at all, would it.

I mean, hold a tunnel and if it somehow gets through then that townflip's gonna mess me up, right?

idr prohawk accusing your action of being scummy
i interpreted prohawk accusing scum motive

which... your argument is useless for
please explain why your actions are town motivated and not scum motivated

Ive got a scumread im confident in, but nobody supports it, so im holding on to it hard so it doesn't die and scum doesn't escape

Town motivation right there

[Xayzeck]

xay do you still think my case on adrien is crap

Well.....

Him confusing the points is scummy? No. Him pointing it out is protown? Do you disagree with that? Additional information is always good, so I agree that it helps town knowing that they do not have daytalk. Is it more likely scum notice minute details? Yes. Both of these are valid points.

Can you quote where you explicitly asked for his opinion on Oka?

How is it obvious manipulation by replying to your opinion that calling out the no daytalk = scummy?

The rest I will check the real posts myself, but time, it's late, exams to tomorrow

tl;dr yeah it's pretty crap idek why you are so confident, save for that last chunk that has some validity. maybe.

[Xayzeck]

Xay are you going to ignore the fact notmafia jumped in and hammered?

Why is it purely a scum move?

[Xayzeck]

Thanks adrien for telling xay in a wordy response of what I kept screaming at Xay for, meta doesn't matter.

You realise that his argument was "people can manipulate and emulate meta, therefore you cannot clear someone as town that way"

but tell me who in fuck emulates their scum meta?

Why are you not lynched yet?

[Xayzeck]

And also, you keep thinking meta is the only thing I have

[Xayzeck]

Okay xay, give me a explanation on scum meta of me. I'll debate my scum meta if that is really how you want things to go down.

Already have

[Xayzeck]

Oka isn't scum from his near-death-experience

Not sure I see this

[Xayzeck]

And thank you for ignoring me again and try to play it off as me ignoring you...lynch him please!

What is your biggest point on NMscum? Just one.

[Xayzeck]

shit i forgot about multiple votes entirely

VOTE: vote: not mafia

I'd like to avoid L-1 before lylo, and that's surprising from you given you've got quite the number of null reads.

[Xayzeck]

how the hell do i try to emulate my town meta as scum?

Note chosen and newbie 1507 i was lurky, gerrymander i was playing trolly, and vengeful i did a suicide run.

So?

I didn't specifically say you emulate your townmeta as scum, I said logically(generally/typically/it makes the most sense to think that), you'd(this is a general you, not you specifically, so could be replaced with "people will") try to emulate townmeta as scum.

Chosen and Newbie would be you playing to your scum meta.

Gerrymander and Vengeful would be you avoiding your scum meta.

But remember that one newbie you crumbed tracker and shit got really messed up? You never denied your town meta, your aggression never died out, I even vaguely remember you bringing up your own townmeta after I started scumreading you. TownOka clearly has no problem, even if he strongly believe metatells are useless. As town, I openly welcome metatells, as scum I openly deny them and believe them to be unreliable, and as scum I only accept metatells from people I play with before, because that's the meta I believe should be used in games, not metatells from someone I don't even know.

Also, meta is not the only thing that makes me think you're scum, just fyi.

[Xayzeck]

I'm the inevitable first lynch today. It's honestly a waste of time delaying this, use the time for 5p, all that will happen is a continual wall war with Adrien over the same stuff with the same non-answers.

AtE is lame

Content would be nice if you're not willing to fight your lynch, so reads/scumpairs/unlikely scumpairs/mild explanations

[Xayzeck]

shit i forgot about multiple votes entirely

VOTE: vote: not mafia

wait what the fuck

you're voting both nm and adrien? are you serious?

[Xayzeck]

Notmafia seems like a good lynch. He swooped down and hammered heph with no intent. He acted scummy from day 1.

Xay is only really scum if NotMafia is scum.

That hammer was a deadline hammer you know? I don't know why you're insisting on blowing it up to be a scum hammer when there's townmotivation in trying to get a lynch.

Also he wasn't scummy whole of D1.

And also, your scumpoints on me have nothing to do with your scumpoints on NM. Why is it I'm scum if NM is scum, and I cannot be scum if NM is town?

VOTE: Oka

And I just forgot to drop that because I thought I did a long time ago

[Xayzeck]

Why is it Xay?

[Xayzeck]

1. What do you think Xay's alignment is?

I think this is what I'm most interested in.

[Xayzeck]

The fact that everybody thinks I'm scum is an eyebrow raiser, since I can't recall even the slightest of a case?

[Xayzeck]

xay please tell me you see adrien as scum

That depends on why you think he's scum.

[Xayzeck]

You think the scum team is N_M and Adrien?

Highly doubt it

[Xayzeck]

quite a few people made a case on you

quote me

[Xayzeck]

Mainly because I lie and make shit up as town quite often. Well can we compromise on a Xay lynch since we all like it?
Then if Xay flips scum we can have 1v1 droog vs adrien.

Have you replied my case on you?

Because you asked for a case

[Xayzeck]

i have been hammering on adrien all game
he is a liar and needed to get lynched /last/ phase
he was my preferred lynch /last/ phase

and /this/ phase

You seem awfully confident adrien is scum

Like, not even the slightest hesitation that he could be town and scum could just quickhammer

you know that?

[Xayzeck]

If you answered no to any of these, speak now or forever hold your peace.

If Oka's breakdown is towny

does that mean Oka is town?

Answer me seriously

[Xayzeck]

I'm fucking sick and tired of your Oka case being amounted to "his breakdown was town" when everything else in his play is scum

[Xayzeck]

A lot of times its easier to see town than it is scum because a lot of things town do could be considered scummy. It's how mislynches happen. But I am not the only one with a town read on Oka...

Please, elaborate on why you think he is town, beyond his prelynch breakdown

[Xayzeck]

Why does there have to be any other reason?

Because I've up multiple points for Oka scum, and you have 1 for okatown, and I don't recall you even elaborating a bit why it rings you as town.

The fact that Okatown stands on just 1 point 40 pages in the game is disturbing

[Xayzeck]

Xaydeck...I have a fun activity for you. I want you to give a percentage for everyone left in the game on their odds of flipping scum. 100% being that there is no possible way on God's green Earth that they flip town and 0% for someone you feel is confirmed town (probably going to list yourself as that, which all of us would so no issues with you doing it).

80% Oka
20% Hawk
49% You
51% droog

What do you hope to gain from this?

[Xayzeck]

I want to see exactly how sold you are that Oka is scum. 20% is 1/5. So there is a fifth of you thinking maybe you could be wrong? This isn't a time to be taking any risks.

90% just felt a little extreme, it felt like 90% meant that there's a minuscule 10% that could convince me otherwise, but that isn't the case, because the entire playerlist seems to disagree with my Oka read. That and how Hawk is interacting with me.

I don't think anybody has paid any attention to my Oka case, including Oka himself, even though he asked for it

I'm waiting on a decent explanation from Hawk, who refuses to work with me, also partly why he's holding more than a 10%.

The way it works for me, and it should for Oka and Hawk too, is that:
1 scum in droog/adrien
1 scum in Oka/Hawk (replace accordingly from Oka's and Hawk's perspective)

Which is why Oka + Hawk = 100% and droog + adrien = 100%

If Oka isn't scum, Hawk is. If droog isn't scum, adrien is.

droog and adrien could be crosbussing, which could be a thing, but I'm not sure there's any evidence to slightly suggest that.

[Xayzeck]

okay lets lynch Xay now?

Case me

[Xayzeck]

350 Says rosey town
382 Prohawk makes a good point, Oka doesn't address it. He votes Prohawk for jumping off the wagon, which is ok, and he backs up his ZZZX vote by "you voted him too" which makes absolutely no sense. Also doesn't answer the question at all, so his answer is almost completely unrelated. Logically for town you scumhunt on the townwagons, why isn't he doing that here? Because his buddy is on it? Maybe.
400 Around here is where I bring up Okameta, and I only do so because I've played with him before. Typically, he's more aggro and upbeat as town, and more lazy and quiet as scum. Logically, you'd try to emulate your town meta, and I'd imagine that's why so many people commented about his overaggroness early game, probably him overcompensating. Since then though, I'm sure most of you have noticed his play has died down to just about only defending himself and just lurking about. There are some pretty stark differences between his town and scum meta, and here's the big point: As town, he'd bloody love it. If anybody doubts him, AND they're using a metatell on him as town, he knows to god that logically he should be read as town, and if he isn't, then whoever is metatelling him is probably twisting. He knows I know his meta fairly well, and I can easily back this up with some of his games, hell I'm sure he's mentioned them too in this game. So once I bring up meta, his immediate reaction is to deny metatells, and sell them off as useless or unreliable, because he knows it won't work in his favour. TownOka may do the same, but he'd welcome it if anything. ScumOka will deny the hell out of it.
432 434 440 442 444 445 447 449 451 All perfect examples of his play dying out, lots of fluff, lots of oneliners, lots of half assing. Also the way he pulls of Hawk, that's not town. 455 Who in the world would just unvote they're scumread and say "ok you win you're town"? Every post before that doesn't look like he went through much or if not any convincing, he just backed off for no clear reason.
457 458 Read flip! "I want to lynch him even if he isn't scum" What's wrong with that? I recall a ton of ZZZX votes, saying you want to lynch him, and I'm sure as hell none of you could confidently say he was scum or town, you were all just voting because he lurked. This is perfectly fine, scummy to some, but it's amazing how you blew it up to the top of your scumlist, and what's this...
459 You literally just started scumreading her and then wanted to 1v1. What town does this? Let go of their scumread so easily, pick one up so quickly, and 1v1 over a small stance? This is not town, this is scum just doing whatever it can to get another lynch happening.
461 463 466 468 more fluff and uselessness
469 yay for naked votes.
474 485 a little more fluff
524 Again, he still insist on the 1v1. And nothing else but this, and fluff/lowcontent posts.
554 FSO is someone else who played in a game both Oka and I were in. This game, Oka has made references to players and past games we had, it bothers me the hell out. It counts as meta, and it's so disturbing, it's like early game he did this a bunch, maybe because he had that aggro start and wanted me to do meta to townread him.



I'm lazy, lunch is here.

[Xayzeck]

I bring up meta (suggests he is scum)

He denies it (also suggests he is scum)

Read flip on rosey, suggests 1v1 for no reason, doesn't let go

General half-assed posting, fluff, brings up games between him and I(this particular point doesn't suggest alignment, because I can't attach an alignment to it, but it's disturbing)

^that's your summary

[Xayzeck]

"yes im definitely acting very scummy"
that would be more town?

nope.

"go ahead, bring up my meta. I think it's useless and ineffective, but if you actually do look at my meta this is my towngame"

that would suggest town

"meta is useless" implies "don't bring up my meta since I'm playing my scummeta and this works greatly against me, and i'm going to say it's useless to dismiss its credibility"

[Xayzeck]

Meta has no credibility.

That would be dismissing my entire case over one point, and not even the main point.

[Xayzeck]

I appealed to Xay to present an option between Adrien/Droog. That never happened which makes me believe he doesn't want to tip the scales one way or another because his lynch is coming down the pike soon. I don't see anything happening from now to deadline, so I am just going to vote.

I appealed for a case on me, that has never happened either. Oka said people have cased me, I've asked for quotes on these cases, none have been presented. I've asked this playerlist multiple times on why you think I'm scum, none have been presented.

I'd like to ask 2 things:
1. Unvote
2. Share the reasons you think I'm scum, which for some reason nobody has done

I have no particular opinion on Adrien and Droog, though I am leaning toward droog given how his case isn't mega convincing and he was willing to throw a vote in lylo.

[Xayzeck]

1. So give me your best meta case with examples

2. Good reasons and good reasons

3. That's me

Recent RR game

Good reasons for youscum?

No that's not you, we've had towngames where you don't solely fluff and talk with 1 lines, like that game you were tracker.

[Xayzeck]

I appealed to Xay to present an option between Adrien/Droog.

When did this happen, by the way?

[Xayzeck]

I'm still deadset Droog is one.

Why aren't you voting droog?

Why isn't droog voting you?

You've voted each other, nobody has quickhammered. 1 scum is between you and droog, right? I think this is established already.

So why aren't you two crossing?

[Xayzeck]

hm?

i was and then i realized that prohawk not double hammering did not celar him
because there is no double hammering

so i got paranoid because i didnt have the scumteam like i thought
and then i got sucked into work for a week

Point being, you voted adrien, and nobody quickhammered.

This should confirm adrien as scum, yes?

[Xayzeck]

@Hawk: I lean droog mainly for his case on adrien. I'm not saying it's a bad case and that it has invalid points, I will say it is a weak case, and not enough to warrant a vote in lylo. That's why I think droog could be scum. I picked up on his case, and it took him a while to respond to it. I've noticed that I haven't replied though, so I'll have to continue with this before I can solidly tell you I prefer droog. I'm assuming you've seen his case, and my response, if not I can link them for you, but basically it outlines the problems I have with his adrien scumread, how it's a fairly weak read, and the fact he was quick to throw out a vote bothers me.

@714:

third question first (the crux of my case)
i told him that noticing daytalk was more likely if he was scum
he then went on about how it was pro-town

all scum would notice no daytalk
not every townie would
this is always true and instead of agreeing he argued against something i never said

You told him noticing daytalk was more likely if he was scum, that is correct. He goes on to talk about how it's protown. Ok, cool. All scum would notice, not all town would, correct. With all of this, you are implying that noticing daytalk is scum indicative, since scum are more likely to have done so. Unless you said that it's more likely that scum brought it up, but that it isn't indicative of scum? Because that makes absolutely no sense.

Therefore he is arguing that revealing daytalk is town indicative, in order to defend himself. This is the bulk of your case, could you maybe back this up more? Because I don't see what exactly why saying "noticing the daytalk is protown" indicates so strongly he is scum.

What about ignoring your Oka-question strongly indicates scum? I believe the biggest issue you have with this is that he defends himself be saying Oka is not his top scumread. I'd encourage you to go back and look at the question you asked him "share your read on Oka and dazzle me with a vote on your top scumread" (something like that) and tell me that there's no way, absolutely 100% no way, that he could have interpreted that as "tell me your read on Oka and dazzle me with a vote on your top scumread(which would refer to Oka)". This is in no means scum, and it's not a particularly strong point to have in your case.

[Xayzeck]

At this point, you might convince me to vote out of Droog and Adrien. So maybe try that?

UNVOTE: Xayzeck

What makes me uncomfortable is that you're deliberately forcing me to look away from Oka, my only decent scumread, to decide between droog and adrien just because YOU want to. Any reason you're not entertaining my Oka case? Any reason you've chosen not to substantiate your Oka townread?

Any reason you want me to convince you between droog and adrien? It seems to me like you're doing a "give me a case on droog/adrien, or get lynched".

I'd also like to know, why are you scumreading me at all? This question is for Oka too. Oka, you said people have cased me for scum, I'd like to know, where are these cases?

[Xayzeck]

@714:

third question first (the crux of my case)
i told him that noticing daytalk was more likely if he was scum
he then went on about how it was pro-town

all scum would notice no daytalk
not every townie would
this is always true and instead of agreeing he argued against something i never said

I just noticed Oka's actually responded to my case, I'll take a look at it

[Xayzeck]

Derp quote!

Hey Oka, what's your case on me?

[Xayzeck]

if you are the only scum from my perspective
and you are the only scum from adrien's perspective
then you are confirmed scum

How does this make any sense?

I'll address the rest some other time, I'm on mobile

[Xayzeck]

I'm not entertaining your Oka case because nothing you have said makes me think that it trumps his reaction to being lynched which was: town. Which I don't remember you actually even addressing? Except getting upset that we are all town-reading him for it?

Which is what I don't particular get. What exactly about his breakdown was SOOOO TOWN that you feel it's enough to ignore my entire case. That's my biggest concern. How is it enough to outweigh the case? Don't you think we should address this first? Instead of "oh you failed to consider his reaction to being lynched". What are you expecting? "Oh i've got this wall of stuff for Okascum but his reaction was town so i'll just slash all of that off now". No. You apparently see it as a beacon of towniness, elaborate.

[Xayzeck]

have you ever played on epicmafia? its like that

if adrien's only possible scumpartner is you, then i know you're scum
if my only possible scumpartner is you, then adrien knows you're scum

if both those things are true than everyone knows you're scum

idgaf about proving that youre my only possible scumpartner because im not scum
but it interests me whether or not you're a more sure bet than adrien

Why are we discussing all of these "if"s when all of these are one in a million scenarios? In what situation would adrien's only possible scumpartner be me? In what situation would your only possible scumpartner be you?

[Xayzeck]

But I am doubting that he would be so forward as scum at the same time.

Why exactly? Do you think he's newbscum?

[Xayzeck]

And was kinda waiting for a response from Xay.

Sorry if I'm stalling the game, school has me come home at like 8pm, and I'm usually to sleepy to even turn on the computer.

[Xayzeck]

why are you pretending that you're hearing my case for the first time
was any of this news when you voted me 'for twisting crap'

I think the biggest problem with your case is not a problem with your case, it's a problem with you.

You're stubbornly fixed on "adrien twisted my words", but as I read your case, your posts, and plant myself into adrien's shoes, everything he does is understandable.

From an adrien-town-perspective, in my interpretation:
I notice the daytalk thing, I bring it up, even though it is setup spec and not directly related to scumhunting, I am providing my fellow town with additional information to disadvantage scum. I'm helping out the town.

Then you come along and say that this would happen more likely as scum(that is, noticing the daytalk thing). adrien-town, who is convinced he was aiding town, and that it was protown, interprets it as "you are more likely to notice as scum, therefore this is scummy". And this, adrien has every reason to defend himself from this accusation, I do not see how this is scummy. ('this' being defending himself)

And to my knowledge, you seem to be denying this, saying that just because it is more likely for scum to notice, does not mean you are calling him scum. Forgive me if I misinterpreted this, but this is the biggest wat I have about your case.

Next, the Oka read thing. I have already briefly addressed this, but I can very clearly interpret your question as "share your read on Oka, and vote Oka", since "dazzle me with a vote on your top scumread" coming right after "share your read on oka" made me think that scumread = oka.

And where does the stubbornness kick in? I have brought most of these points up before, yet it doesn't seem like you particularly want to acknowledge them. I feel everything I'm bringing up is valid, and all the things you find scummy are easily justifiable from a town perspective. I don't know whether you're incredibly confident of your case, or you're just pulling one out of your ass to get yourself a mislynch.

So I'm giving you a chance droog, do you think these explanations from an adrien-town perspective make sense? If not, why?

Can you point out a gap in my logic?

Are you going to say "it's just your interpretations?", to which I will say, that's how reads work.

Are you going to substantiate your case more with MORE points for adrien-scum?

If you say no to these questions, then I will have to ask you, why in hell did you vote in lylo?

[Xayzeck]

are you ignoring your back and forth with nm
why you ignored my request for your oka read to spar over 'small stuff'
why you blew up the freaking 'scum would more likely do this' thing in the first place


i could go on about how you blew up over meta
((which is an easy argument for scum to push))
or you never adequately responded to my argumenst
((hence why you're acting shocked now))

I'm interested in these. Among all of these points here, which you seem to be able to substantiate, and the points I have talked about most, what do you think is the biggest selling point for adrien-scum?

[Xayzeck]

so I just got home...

[Xayzeck]

Hah. But I guess you guys didn't expect my PR!

Govern: Xayzeck

Vig: Adrien, Droog

hahahaha

times like this I wish I rolled a 1-shot unlynchable

[Xayzeck]

I'm not sure I would have caught the cross buss even if I we did lynch droog tbh. I may have thought of it, or slightly considered they were crossbussing, I think I mentioned it before in game too, but nothing was really compelling enough for me to think "Hm maybe crossbussing is a possibility". I would have liked to hear more about Prohawk's townread on Oka, and Oka's townread on Prohawk, to find out why they can so confidently PoE me out to lynch me in lylo, which I still don't really understand. PoE reads in lylo are pretty risky.

And I totally read Oka wrong, but with that RR flip that happened while this was going on I felt a lot more confident with the Oka read. I honestly preferred a droog lynch over Oka though

Either way, good game all.