Micro 382 - CREDIMVS PAVONI DEORVM (Game Over!)
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TierShift Jack of All Trades
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TierShift Jack of All Trades
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TierShift Jack of All Trades
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I actually failed to be noticed he posted, idk why. I don't see why I should censor myself if someone else things like I do. If anything, it shows independent thought reaching the same conclusion. You can thus assume that your questions were really below the mark. Profit and learn.
God fucking dammit you fuckin ninja-
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TierShift Jack of All Trades
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In post 29, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:my buddy Tier (who funnily enough I've never played with before)
You should play with him more often he's a p cool guy I herd
Script, your questions are useless because whatever answer comes out of it is useless and not game-related. Any question should be aimed at generating content.
BBT what is the scum motivation in pushing the issue?-
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TierShift Jack of All Trades
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TierShift Jack of All Trades
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You have no thoughts about the previous exchange whatsoever?-
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TierShift Jack of All Trades
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In post 50, TierShift wrote:Someone tell me if there was anything useful in those walls
I wasted my 3000th post on this, btw :/-
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TierShift Jack of All Trades
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I got gamestart pm tho
In post 63, Josh_B wrote:errgh, My need to play this game interrupts my need for vengeance.
VOTE: scripten
That scummy push was scummy.
Whayyyy-
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TierShift Jack of All Trades
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In post 98, Mr_Ree wrote:Still a little bit early to start looking for teams guys, especially without a single scum flip.
Not liking my current Tier vote, that guy may actually be town. Looking for a new wagon. Any suggestions?
Yo dis wagon
VOTE: josh b
Vote tags are p hard when drru.k-
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In post 94, Josh_B wrote:Don't push shitty wagons against RVS posts, unless you want to be scum read.
He's scumreading because hehasto, it seems.
Plus, that sheep is horrible.-
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In post 111, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I don't understand this, especially the first part. Elaborate please.
It's the wording. It's not: "I scumread you for pushing wagons against RVS posts", it's: "you deserve to be scumread for pushing wagons against RVS posts". The first one shows he's (more or less) genuinely attacking the person, the second is looking for a justification for the vote.-
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In post 116, vettrock wrote:In post 68, Scripten wrote:
At least we've had a few more players posting now. So, let's try this again.
Vettrock:If you were scum, who would you target for a night kill assuming the day ended right now with a no lynch?
If the Day ended right now and I was scum it is hard to say who I would nightkill. I think we need a bit more information, as at this point I'd just have to pick a random person. A nightkill should be the person most believed to be town, or a person that is particularly threatening to you. The problem with the second option, is it points the finger at you unless they also fall under the first catagory. As there isn't anyone who is generally accepted as town at this point, I'd have to go random.
I do not like the sound of that.-
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TierShift Jack of All Trades
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Scum need to pretend they're not scum in the position they're in when they answer that question. They mustn't answer truthfully because that is who theywillkill.
Town, however, put themselves in the place of scum and pick the most threatening player to their wincon.
You seem to be of the first kind, trying to make some theory up to justify not calling who you will kill.
I must remember this question for scmhunting purposes.-
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I think I was the first one to call you out on that sheep, bud.
I'm not townreading scripten per se. I'm just pretty sure you sheeped bad reasoning and god did it feel wrong.
I'm taking rvs pushing as a null-tell. And you saying it isn't is not changing that.
I'm not gonna read all those walls btw, but I don't see much evidence as to scriptenscum.-
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In post 133, Mr_Ree wrote:Ok, here's what we're going to do, Josh and Script should both list their points against the otherin point formso I can kill both of their cases and we can proceed from there.
That should save us from walls of baseless accusations.
Good idea
In post 134, Josh_B wrote:It's scripten contradicting himself about who brought up the Idea that I care about my placement on the wagon. Looking over the post now, I didn't do a good job of coloring it correctly. And yellow marks logical fallacies.
Is this your case?
So, reading that game, I know that Skripten understands that town are allowed to agree with each other, and that scum can be caught on Page 1. IMHO that means all of his accusations of sheeping are scum motivated.
Why can't you be clearer?-
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Nah I agree with that post mostly
In post 164, Scripten wrote:
BBT:I do not appreciate that I'm suddenly "potential town" because I agree with you. What's with that? That's not a town-sided attitude to have. That's self-serving meta BS.
Hi fellow this is exactly what I thought when I saw BBT's 'scripten might be town' post.-
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People who use the words certain and sure without guilties are lame.
Has not much to do with alignment, though. It only makes me want to trust their reads less.
Wolfy, I do not feel the same way you do regarding BBT pushing your read change as scummy. I think it is in fact scummy. You haven't explained why it isn't other than 'my vote wasn't for realz yo'. So please do.-
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Yo what the fuck is this?
Wolfy I want an answer to my 181.-
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In post 202, Asher Kendrell wrote:I am actually out of ketchup. I'm not actually sad, I'm feeling pretty good. Yes I am. I think Wolfy is quick to call others scummy, but incredibly defensive on his own.
Sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep
If only I didn't like my current wolfy vote this much...
What are your other (scum) reads?
In post 219, Josh_B wrote:scripten, I think you are hunting for reads because you want to know who to NK. I don't think reads are good right now, and I'd like you to have to shoot in the dark.
This isn't my normal stance, I'll admit, but the question you are asking BBT right now seems like the same question you asked Vettrok. Since scum have to fabricate their reads, we're about one second from going into NP, and we still have players MIA.
At this point it probably won't do anyone any good to give reads until after the flip.
I simply disagree that scripten is scummy for poking for reads. As we're not yet having a lynch, I don't see the harm in letting people who are perceived scummy to out their reads.-
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Hi wake. No offence, but I find most of your wall useless and I see you are drawing very little conclusions from all the facts that you sum up (IIoA!). Can you do a town/scum readslist?
Your 'assessment' of vettrock is just a crapoad of IIoA so I cannot agree or disagree. I myself have talked about the part where he talks who he'd NK, but the way you speak about it is based on how it should theoretically be instead of if it is alignment-indicative or not. Please keep that out of a readslist. As for my read on him, null. I want him to post more. I don't care too much for the mild aversion to the lynch either way.
I need to check on.josh to see if I'd like that wagon. I sure did before!
As for Asher, I've already said i found his 'RVS' vote scummy and I think that was where I was looking for a wagon today. But I like his 253 and I'm yet to decide if newbscum or newbtown.
Asher, I'm glad to see you're going to be more active. I asked for your reads. Can you provide them?
With all this stuff you're saying about vettrock, what is your read on him? Does 'uncomfortable with' mean scum to you?-
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In post 266, Josh_B wrote:In post 265, TierShift wrote:That last part on wake is not a towntell.
Who do you want to pursue today?
Specifically because it's wake, or are you just saying "not in general"
Not in general.
I'll have more time for this game from now on and will start a reread (and hopefully finish it) tomorrow.
Scripten, I did in fact vote josh before. I haven't cobfronted him or wake yet because I want to go back to day 1, re-examine voting patterns and wagons and then make up my mind about preliminary reads. Afterwards I'll get to questioning others.-
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In post 269, TierShift wrote:I'll have more time for this game from now on and will start a reread (and hopefully finish it) tomorrow.
Literally same post-
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In post 278, Wake1 wrote:Good evening TierShift.
...
I'd like to talk with you, please. I need to get a better footing on your alignment this game. Your cooperation would be valued.
A very good day to you, Mr. wake. If you want to communicate with me, I'd like to see you cut down on post length. It's not hard.
However, only this time, I will address your wall at the end of my reread.-
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Okay guys, first 3 pages.In post 27, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:You're really pushing this issue. You have to be scum.
Your questions were bad. How are they supposed to help you work out somebody's alignment? They were awful questions designed to look like you were prompting discussion and scum-hunting.
I'm so sure you're gonna flip scum.
I much dislike this post in the context of scripten being active and trying to find scumminess in all corners of the game. He might have done in a bad way, but this still is no reason to push him.
This is fencesitting, still.
In post 44, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:In post 43, vettrock wrote:
I read it and I'm not sure what to make of it so I threw something in other direction to see what develops,
To see what develops...from an RVS vote...are you serious?
In post 45, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I suggest you read it again and contribute something useful.
This comes off as tryhard and I must keep this in mind as possible buddy interaction.
In post 63, Josh_B wrote:errgh, My need to play this game interrupts my need for vengeance.
VOTE: scripten
That scummy push was scummy.
And josh is still completely wide of the mark. This sheep is bad bad.
Upon rereading I get a very strong townread on scripten who pushes his thoughts hard, seems to tread back but then defends his reasoning again. No appeasing and no overdefensiveness, in fact, just explanation of his thoughts. I like 47 a lot (it is actually the first time I read it!), the rationale behind voting BBT is solid.-
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In post 53, TierShift wrote:Town or scum overreaction?
Vettrock, you missed this question re scripten vs bbt. Please answer.
In post 102, Scripten wrote:
Anyway, BBT actually seems relatively town to me at the moment despite the butting of heads. You, on the other hand, are actively setting off my scum radar for the reasons that drove me to put my FoS on you before along with your reactions. Let's make this vote actually work toward something.
Where/how did you get your BBT townread?
In post 116, vettrock wrote:In post 68, Scripten wrote:
At least we've had a few more players posting now. So, let's try this again.
Vettrock:If you were scum, who would you target for a night kill assuming the day ended right now with a no lynch?
If the Day ended right now and I was scum it is hard to say who I would nightkill. I think we need a bit more information, as at this point I'd just have to pick a random person. A nightkill should be the person most believed to be town, or a person that is particularly threatening to you. The problem with the second option, is it points the finger at you unless they also fall under the first catagory. As there isn't anyone who is generally accepted as town at this point, I'd have to go random.
I hate this is the only thing vettrock contributes at this point.
In post 124, Josh_B wrote:[
The bottom line comes down to whether or not I was actually sheeping BBT or if I had my own reasons to think that you are scum.You called me a sheep, I had my own reasons that I have expressed. The reasons have nothing to do with BBT, and everything to do with your play. That is not sheeping. And you are just pushing buzzwords.
I recall you yourself saying that you were sheeping BBT (your original sheep, remember?). Now you're saying you're not. What is it?
In post 137, vettrock wrote:So to contribute to the Josh/Scripten debate:
I can follow most of Josh's argument with the exception of the color coded one which wasn't clear until I dug back into the original post to see what was added and what wasn't. Scripten seems to be bending stuff a lot more, but at this point I think its more being defensive that necessarily scummy. He is trying to bend things to support his view. Scum definately do this as they have to make things up, but confirmation bias and bending stuff due to confirmation bias definately affects town as well.
So sightly scumminess to Scripten, but I'm not ready to call him scum yet.
Bad analysis!
In post 146, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:In post 145, Wolfy wrote:[
Nah. It says I was reading him as pretty!
I wasn't. It was a vote to get a reaction. What I got was next to nothing. He just carried on bickering with Scripten. That tells me town.
You may have been about to get a reaction;
In post 122, Josh_B wrote:
Can you please give more of an explanation? What did you decide was alignment indicative?
But you chose to ignore this for some reason. Why is that?
Your logic and thoughts are not consistent so far. You were very fence-sitty at the beginning as well. I think that was an opportunistic vote that you realized you couldn't explain without it looking like you were sheeping so you retracted it.
Then you immediately OMGUS me. Why do you think I'm scum exactly?
I'm almost certain you're scum here.
I llike this post a lot, still.
I'm ending my reread for today. Vettrock and josh look bad.-
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In post 297, Josh_B wrote:Teirshift,
Spoiler: another spoiler because it's fun to make spoilers and most of theinformation is already in the game
You know, all those pages and I still don't know what the whole point of the sheeping thing was except to call me scummy over something rediculous. I agree'd with BBT at the beginning of the game, if you want to call that a sheep, call it a sheep whatever. But that's a pretty weak case.
You just repeated and slightly altered BBT's arguments. I call that a sheep, yes. But sheeping is not scummy by itself. Sheeping bad reasoning is. I have trouble seeing two town players reach that same conclusion. It is easy to imagine scum seeing a case being pushed against someone and thinking 'hey, I can do that!'.-
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In post 165, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I wouldn't expect you to bus your partner right now. When you made your first post restating your case on Josh it looked like you were trying to keep a counter-wagon going to oppose the Wolfy one I was starting.
However, you changed that and voted for him. Therefore, right now, you're probably town and Wolfy is scum.
Your townread on scripten was based on his willingness to vote scum (wolfy). Now that this scum flipped town, does that affect your scripten read?
In post 176, Josh_B wrote:Scripten, I don't think your suspected towniness had as much to do with your actions as they did with wolfy's.
Solid town? Seriously?
Wolfy, I think it's fair that you used the tone of my response to decide on my alignment, you didn't answer the question about what made you decide on alignment in the first place.
And I can see a vote on Mr.E, but there really isn't any pressure on him, or much interactions to justify a vote, so right now your vote looks terrible, can you explain it. Maybe I'll do that PbPA and see what he has to say about it. But later, when I get off work.
Noting that josh abstained from commenting on the thing that mattered at the time: the wolfy wagon.
I might need to do some meta research on this guy.
In post 212, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
Jesus Christ. I don't believe you're this bad at mafia. Like, I just don't.
Think about it. Think about the question and what my response could be. Think who that might help, think who gets to use that information over N1...Jesus Christ.
PEdit - Wolfy,stop insulting me. I don't know why you're making this personal.
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Finished day 1.
In post 234, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
And this reads list hasn't changed/updated in nearly 4 pages worth of posts? Even after all your unvoting and voting? Even after saying I am scummier than scum despite apparently town-reading me?
Come on man, you just put the final nail in your own coffin.
Mr. Ree, hammer awayyyyyyyy!
I'm not overly sad at the fast hammer, but I don't like you pushing for a hammer this hard. I don't call you scummy for it, but it's something in your playstyle you might want to fix.
In post 236, vettrock wrote:Calling for a hammer at this point is scummy in my book. BBT's claims that Wolfy is certain scum is scummy provided Wolfy flips town. I don't see what the town gains by lynching at this point. Personally, I think it takes a bit longer to get good reads on people. Maybe I don't have the Uber skills of all of you, but knowing with "certainty" that someone will flip scum is something that only scum can say.
While I'm not for dragging things out unnecessarily, lynching at this point is anti-town.
Complaining about wagon without contributing
In post 240, vettrock wrote:I'm not convinced Wolfy is scum. The problem is everyone on the wagon can't be scum since there are only two scum. I think rushing to this lynch is incredibly anti-town.
Same comment.-
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In post 251, Wake1 wrote:I've not been following the drama between Josh and Scripten. His content and engagement with the game makes me think Town, initially. The wordiness makes my eyes bleed. I'll very tentatively put him in my Townlist. So now I'd like to know what his reads are; especially his reads on Vettrock.
Do you aim to go after Scripten today, Josh?
Can you elaborate?
In post 251, Wake1 wrote:Not much to work with, because many of the posts are so short. What do you think of Josh_B, Vettrock, or an Asher wagon today, TS? If you read my bit on Vettrock down below, do you think it feels like he's playing safe and guardedly? Why did you change from Josh to Wolfy? I'm having difficulty reading TS, because he hasn't done much to make me believe or distrust him. I do want to know if he follows my train of thought on Vettrock.
Incidentally, I have the wagons you're talking about as my biggest scumreads at this point.
I think vettrock is not playing at all and everything he has said, feels off.
I changed to wolfy because I was less certain of joshscum than of wolfyscum. If you want elaboration on that, feel free to ask.
In post 252, Wake1 wrote:As it is right now, I have a tentative Townread on you. Your posts ring with reason, but questions abound, and I'd like them to be answered in full, if it's not too much trouble. It would certainly help me feel you're a member of Town.
What posts of his 'ring with reason'? Is it only because of this 'reason' you have a townread on him?-
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In post 254, Wake1 wrote:I have no doubt there's at least one member of Scum on Wolfy's wagon.
Wy do you think so and who is that member, most likely?
In post 258, Asher Kendrell wrote:In post 257, Wake1 wrote:Asher, please share your thoughts on Vettrock.
Vettrock is kind of a mystery to me. He hasn't done anything outwardly scummy, but not a lot of pro-town moves either. He seems to be mostly sitting on the fence to me.
In post 116, vettrock wrote:In post 68, Scripten wrote:
At least we've had a few more players posting now. So, let's try this again.
Vettrock:If you were scum, who would you target for a night kill assuming the day ended right now with a no lynch?
If the Day ended right now and I was scum it is hard to say who I would nightkill. I think we need a bit more information, as at this point I'd just have to pick a random person. A nightkill should be the person most believed to be town, or a person that is particularly threatening to you. The problem with the second option, is it points the finger at you unless they also fall under the first catagory. As there isn't anyone who is generally accepted as town at this point, I'd have to go random.
Vettrock doesn't really give an answer, only that his hypothetical night kill would have to be random or the most believed to be town. On the one hand, vettrock's the only player who hasn't been voted against yet, and his only vote was on shaded, who posted basically nothing before being replaced by you. He seemed pretty convinced that wolfy wasn't scum, and that lynching him was anti-town. To me it seems like vettrock has been skirting on the edge rather than taking a stance. His opinions on wolfy didn't really matter because his vote wasn't needed to lynch.
I'm not feeling comfortable with vettrock. If he was convinced about wolfy's innocence, he could have fought harder. If he thought he was scummy, he could have stated his intent to hammer as well. It seems convenient that he could slip past day 1 with no suspicion and avoided the wagon.
I like where this guy is looking.
[
In post 273, Asher Kendrell wrote:[
I'm willing to provide reads, but I'd prefer to wait until vettrock comments on what's been said today. If he doesn't show up, I can still make a list.
Are you done waiting? Who else do you think is scummy?
In post 275, Josh_B wrote:The scumminess of the wagon outwieghed the scumminess of the player.
What made the wagon scummy?
From my POV, scripten looked very opportunistic. Although at this point I will admit that I'm probably in a confbias loop of his behavior.
Why do you think you are in confbias? How does that affect your read on scripten?-
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In post 280, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Mr. Ree clearly delayed the hammer so that discussion could take place. All you did to try and prevent the lynch was 236 and 240, and that was mostly about how anti-town it was to lynch Wolfy. Not actually trying to defend Wolfy himself.
Also, in 137 you eluded to Scripten being slightly scummy but you weren't ready to call him scum yet. You instead decided to leave your vote on Shaded, an inactive. Why was that?
VOTE: Vettrock
Goodposting
In post 290, Josh_B wrote:I considered that wolfy might be scum. But him not being scum means something different than him actually being scum. I've considered the off wagoners. Myself, Shaded, and Vettrock. In order for both scum to be off the wagon, it has to be vettrock and wake. Both seem town to me, so scum is probably not off the wagon.
VOTE: asher
Why do vettrock and wake seem town to you?In post 308, Asher Kendrell wrote:In response to wake88 asking for opinions on the tiershift post
Spoiler:
I think I got everything.
I'm not happy with what asher chose to respond to.-
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Okay, here is where I stand. I have strong townreads on scripten and BBT. Wake is tbd and the rest I consider scummy, but they can't all be scum.
Asher is just scummy as fuck in general. I mustn't forget to meta him. I want to vote him a lot.
But there is also josh who has over the course of the game taken nothing but convenient stances who now is voting for him. Josh seems to be defending the off-wagoners for reasons I can't see if he were town. His buddies are very likely in there, if he's scum.
Vettrock I want gone too since I can very easily see him being paired up wirh either asher or josh.
I have outstanding questions to all three of them and I'd like them to answer these asap.
Let's see what this does.
VOTE: josh-
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TierShift Jack of All Trades
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TierShift Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8384
- Joined: November 5, 2013