Micro 382 - CREDIMVS PAVONI DEORVM (Game Over!)

[Wake1]

May I have some free, decent gameplay advice, please?

[saulres]

I don't think Scripten is scum anymore.

This, right? This was your crumb?

[The Bulge]

Thanks, Tier!

The setup is actually an older one that used to be in the Open Queue rotation (iirc). It doesn't see a lot of runtime anymore, but I played it once a few years ago and decided to try to bring it back. I did realize while setting it up how different the possible setups are balance-wise (notably, the cop being far more powerful than the doc in a 9p setup). I think I'll look into fixing it up a bit so it might get some love in the Open Queue again.

[Wolfy]

Thanks for modding Bulge.
Apologies if my day 1 playstyle offended anybody - was trying something different (called how to get quicklynched as town!)
Particularly no offence meant to you BBT - but I did (and still do) think you pushed way too hard with too little information on bith days.
Very well played Tier especially - I suspect you may have had to work harder without BBT pushing the mislynches so hard.
Good job from Asher as first time scum - suspected but never near getting lynched.
Hopefully play with you all again sometime.

[TierShift]

Thoughts about the play:

We really didn't have too hard a time as scum. I think asher was obvscum, displaying pretty much any newbscum tell I know (lack of scumhunting, being on every wagon, parroting, not explaining votes, etc.), but he managed to stick at it and convince a few people he wasn't the scummiest guy around. Kudos for your day 3 play asher, claiming Earl was good there and keeping alive the paranoia in Wake was smart. I think getting rid of mr_ree N1 was a good move since he was probably the one distrusting us most.

I don't think the town did a super bad job, though. Wolfy and josh were both legit scummy and decent lynches. I think scripten scumhunted well and did a good job of being town. Vettrock pointed out scum probably would have been on the two mislynch wagons, which was a good thought and town could have profited from listening to him. He was a bit too silent, though.

On the crumbing:

Both scripten's and BBT's crumbing turned out to be huge boons to the scumteam, securing a mislynch and a cop NK, respectively. Crumbing is dangerous. I'm not saying it was stupid to crumb, but think about

why

and for

whom

you are crumbing. I think scripten's crumb wasn't bad and it was just a case of wrong place at the wrong time for josh, but I think BBT's claim was definitely locateable for scum (it was) and he moreover said I was 100%town somewhere. Which is not smart to say as a cop when having an inno on someone else. So think about crumbing.

General tips to town:

Try to work with people who are willing to work with you

Josh's reaction to being at L-1 was

not

a scum reaction. Don't ever regard last words as 'caught scum is caught', however beautiful your reaction test (I thought it was actually a smart reaction test!). Josh was still scumhunting and people like scripten and BBT should at least have tried working with him.

Don't make it an ego fight

Don't take attacks personal, keep an open mind and think about the guys that are slipping under the radar during the argument.

Night Kill Analysis

A biggie! Mr_ree was suspecting asher heavily.

Don't quickvote in LyLo

And profit.

[TierShift]

I didn't give in-depth feedback to everyone because I don't like giving unsolicited advice to a single person. If you want it, please ask, happy to provide it!

I'd like feedback too and especially what I can improve on.

Wake, do you want feedback by pm or in-thread?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I didn't purposefully crumb anywhere, I'm way too paranoid to consider crumbing a PR.

I just didn't think about how other people may perceive my posts and it ultimately cost me.

PEdit - I'd like specific feed-back please Tier. I haven't won a single game on this site yet. 0-4 as town and 0-3 as scum I believe.

Tier I thought you played great. Like, you completely had me fooled. I got a little suspicious of you buddying me early D1 but you turned that around by questioning my reads and posts, it just looked genuine.

I can't think of a single fault in your play. You completely fooled me.

I'm seriously pissed with myself for letting Asher slip by though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll take feedback in the thread as well Tier, no need for PM. Thanks.

[TierShift]

@Saulres:

I think the whole wagon on Wolfy may have been town. If there was scum on it, it's one of Tier or Asher; leaning Asher.

That was the crumb. First post of day 2. BBT later said he townread me from the start and he was townreading me.more than scripten day 1, so he got an inno on scripten.

[TierShift]

That was not a purposeful crumb? >>

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, I realize how it could be seen as one. But it genuinely wasn't. I just fucked up.

[Wake1]

In-thread would be appreciated.

I think because of my condition, ADD, I should really make smaller and more frequent posts, and save my energy to hyper-focus on players who are really Scummy (after a lot of discussion).

My unique strength is extreme focus when triggered, but I need to work on the timing: pick better times to get into it.

I don't want to make large posts later on UNLESS ASKED because I feel like they don't get read or responded to, because it bores them, so I think I should only provide good info when asked for it. That'd take a lot of stress off my shoulders.

[Wake1]

Also, if I've answered something or gave my opinion on something, and then 200-300 posts later someone asks me a question around those lines, is it better to answer from memory and clarify it then and there, or tell the player to look through my ISO and not not really answer/repeat myself?

I'm used to answering any questions asked me, even if I've answered it in the past.

[TierShift]

Okay, BBT, I suck at giving positive feedback, jsyk. Here we go:

1. You're not a scumhunting god.

Your reads are not the be-all, end-all. Your reads weren't accurate and with you jumping so fast from one read to another, it is annoying to read how 'sure' you are in your reads. You should push your reads like a normal person; you should know your reads change a lot and your posting style should reflect that. Look at other players' reads. Try to adgust yours based on them.

2. Listen to everyone.

Yes, even to your scumread josh or the lurker vettrock. Everyone. Readjust opnions based on what they say. You can weigh the stuff your townreads say heavier, but be sure that they're not just manipulating you into scumreading others.

3. If everyone agrees with you, something is wrong.

This is true in almost all cases. Unless the scumteam is reeeaally weak and obvious, keep in mind that scum would like town to push their wagons for them.

4. Let the game flow.

No need in pushing every wagon super hard by yourself, look at reactions provoked by wagons and talk to other people about wagons, instead of tunnelling.

See, all negative

Hope this helps!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Negative feedback is better than positive.

Thanks Tier.

[Wake1]

TS you mentioned I pegged one of the Scum early on.

What should my strategy have been?

I've caught Scum before, but I need a better, general strategy.

[Wolfy]

Okay, BBT, I suck at giving positive feedback, jsyk. Here we go:

1. You're not a scumhunting god.

Your reads are not the be-all, end-all. Your reads weren't accurate and with you jumping so fast from one read to another, it is annoying to read how 'sure' you are in your reads. You should push your reads like a normal person; you should know your reads change a lot and your posting style should reflect that.

Look at other players' reads. Try to adgust yours based on them.

2.

Listen to everyone.

Yes, even to your scumread josh or the lurker vettrock. Everyone.

Readjust opnions based on what they say.

You can weigh the stuff your townreads say heavier, but be sure that they're not just manipulating you into scumreading others.

3. If everyone agrees with you, something is wrong.

This is true in almost all cases. Unless the scumteam is reeeaally weak and obvious,

keep in mind that scum would like town to push their wagons for them.

4. Let the game flow.

No need in pushing every wagon super hard by yourself,

look at reactions provoked by wagons and talk to other people about wagons

, instead of tunnelling.

See, all negative

Hope this helps!

You do yourself a disservice Tier - loads of positives.

Do me, do me! I'm much harder to be positive about.

[TierShift]

Conciseness

Wake, the most important thing you should be working on is choosing the subjects of your focus and conciseness. I see a lot of posts discussing trivial things, like RVS behaviour and thoughts when making certain posts.

As a rule of thumb, it's a good idea to only ask questions if the answer will help you to better form a read on someone. So do it when a post seems weird, out of context or when you don't understand a vote, for example. I'd say at least 3/4 of your questions only helped to clutter up the thread.

Don't answer or ask questions over multiple paragraphs. Keep it short. Walls stink. They are toxic to any town.

Reasons for voting

Don't focus on people antagonising you. I've seen you do this in multiple games. They're not scummy for antagonising you; in fact, they aren't afraid of you voting them and thus more likely town. Your vote on me was for crap reasons (saying somethkng fluffy) and I don't know what your rationale for voting scripten was, but it was a bad vote. The guys disagreeing with you are probably more town than the guys agreeing with you. Important to remember!

Don't quickvote in LyLo

Profit

Even worse because claims weren't out yet, I think.

[TierShift]

You pegged one of the scum early on, wake? Didn't see it.

Oh and if someone repeats a question, give a 1 sentence answer and link the post with the full answer. Link, not quote.

[Wake1]

I think it was a townslip when I gave a read on Ree, who had just died. I didn't expect the guy to die.

But NOW.... heh, I'll try to fake that as Scum next time. Mmhm...

[Wake1]

You pegged one of the scum early on, wake? Didn't see it.

Oh and if someone repeats a question, give a 1 sentence answer and link the post with the full answer. Link, not quote.

Or that was said in the Dead QT. I'll check to make sure.

OK, from now on I'll do that with the links/repeating of questions.

[TierShift]

Oh and wake, another thing: avoid arguments.

I took adding ree mostly as a non-cop slip

[Wake1]

Damn it now I'm mad.

I DID see BBT's crumb but I didn't believe it because Scripten was Scummy in my book.

[TierShift]

And an addendum for BBT: don't call non-inno's a 100% townread as cop.

[Wake1]

This was the one, TS.

Aw I kinda feel really bad for Wake. You could tell at the beginning of the game that he was really trying to improve (and doing a good job at it). He even had the correct scumteam nailed in one of his posts. But now he's second guessing himself.

Apparently I meant Bulge instead.