Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Spiffeh, going by that, wouldn't it be better for scum!Nero to not post at all?
Like, some people DID get away with that.

With that said I do agree with you and I also like the fact that you're poking Nero right now.

-Nebby

It's very unlikely that all scum would just avoid the phase altogether. Nero had what I feel is the scummiest contribution so far.

I slept through the phase -.-

Same q.q 4 people hadn't even posted and a resolution was passed in not even 24 hours.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

YO IS THAT THE MAN
THE MYTH
THE LEGEND
BAEREED?

-Nebby

ALIBAE!!! <3 IT IS INDEED

[NoticeMeSenpai]

YO IS THAT THE MAN
THE MYTH
THE LEGEND
BAEREED?

-Nebby

ALIBAE!!! <3 IT IS INDEED

<3.
Now you're talking to me about the game.
What are your reads?

My reads are that I shouldn't play games with you if I don't want something hammered D1 while I sleep, apparently -.-

Aside from that, I'm still catching up, so this is like 5+ pages back. I like you and Drixx for town.
Dislike the Vecna interactions toward The DEO slot, but I'm also concerned that I've actually agreed with Math on pretty much everything so far.
LUV vs beeboy looks more like a reading comprehension failure than anything. I don't think it's on purpose.

I kind of zoned out during the mechanics argument so I'm going to need a second read of the game. I just wanted to catch up asap since you guys were posting 2 pages every time I read one.

Also whoever is planning to be neighborized or masons if we have them should get the day chat wonder. It cuts scum out from getting it and is useful to keep communication open during the day.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Mala head is what's pinging me about A&N.

What was pinging you from Mala back here?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I'm waving it off because honestly, I don't feel pressure.

Also whoever is planning to be neighborized or masons if we have them should get the day chat wonder. It cuts scum out from getting it and is useful to keep communication open during the day.

Jae are you building that wonder?

-Nebby?

Umm I haven't made any decisions on wonders yet. I want to check in with mastina on some thoughts first to check if I have good theories on synergies.

Why are you questioning who signed?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Vecna achieved obvtown levels earlier and I really want DEO hydra to not be salty at them

Talk to me about this? I haven't liked the way it has been shading The DEO, yet comes across as though it believes they're town when it does.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I'm waving it off because honestly, I don't feel pressure.

Also whoever is planning to be neighborized or masons if we have them should get the day chat wonder. It cuts scum out from getting it and is useful to keep communication open during the day.

Jae are you building that wonder?

-Nebby?

Umm I haven't made any decisions on wonders yet. I want to check in with mastina on some thoughts first to check if I have good theories on synergies.

Why are you questioning who signed?

I'm not at all.
But the daytalk wonder does interest you, right?

-Nebby

I mean I said it already? It'd be nice to keep out of scum's hands. It's only useful for like masons though I think, or whoever the neighborizer plans on targeting maybe. I think the main strength is in keeping it out of scum hands to deny them day chat.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I woke up because I temembered what I wanted to say about akane, which is this: their insistence on getting the neighborizer, a piss poor role, to the point that they seem ready to throw a fit and will just "twiddle their thumbs" if they don't get it, struck me as so very much an alisae-move and it makes no sense as a scum-play


As for Nero I see you but I'm still going back to sleep. What you said went over my head but it sounds like Titus just being wrong or something, will re-evaluate sleep consumes me goodbye *dies*

I think that was actually Malachite lol. It's still town from them tho, I agree.

How did you only miss my question to you??? -.-

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Jae, you just scumclaimed.
Here's why.

The Great Lighthouse (Available only to

non-town

players) Factional topics you are a part of gain day chat as long as you are alive.

How the fuck is a mason supposed to get it when it's only avalable to NON-TOWN PLAYERS!

Like, holy fucking shit Jae. Scum can't be denied something that's only for them.

-Nebby

Oh, I didn't notice that part. It said "Factional topics" and I assumed that applied to us as well. Never mind then.

And no, scumclaiming would be saying I was building it

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Mala head is what's pinging me about A&N.

What was pinging you from Mala back here?

Opening post.

Reporting for duty

- Akane

I too am for sciences. Will need to consult with Nebby, though

- Akane

Those? You mean the preference for science over none?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

There's no way you could've have noticed that part

I assume you mean

not

notice that part, and obviously there is.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Building it and showing interest in it is one in the same Jae.
Plus I asked you 3 times dude!

-Nebby

I mean I actually said it'd be good for masons and whoever was getting neighborized. I was trying to hint at The DEO to get it since I figured you'd be targeting them.

Showing interest in the fact that I thought we could cut scum out of day talk forever is not the same as saying "hey construction is underway for the day talk thing guys".

[NoticeMeSenpai]

There's no way you could've have noticed that part

I assume you mean

not

notice that part, and obviously there is.

Yep and no there isn't.

Yes, there is. I never once said I was building the damn thing. I was trying to get others to do so.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Yeah that's bull Jae. Masons being able to talk during the night is enough. Being practically confirmed innoncents is better than Day talk. The only way I see it being useful is to coordinate a mass claim.

Having been a mason with day talk before I strongly disagree with you on this. Being able to bounce something off another slot that you know is town is one of the strongest things in the game, and being able to coordinate who you both want to push and share unfiltered thoughts is insanely strong.

Hell, having been a third party survivor faction before it was incredibly useful, as well.

Day talk is one of the strongest things, and even if you don't agree that masons being able to talk during the day is incredibly powerful (and it is), you can't deny that there's still a hell of a lot of benefit in denying scum day chat.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

There's no way you could've have noticed that part

I assume you mean

not

notice that part, and obviously there is.

Yep and no there isn't.

Yes, there is. I never once said I was building the damn thing. I was trying to get others to do so.

Doesn't matter. There is no you couldn't have seen the bolded. It's right after the name of the Wonder.

Alisae bolded it. It's not bolded in the first post.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

So, I thought you actually just didn't read it. Mostly because for Mausoleum, it states that the neighborhood has daytalk, but here are a few things that are scummy about this defence.
A. Tone - Feels like you're just attempting to brush it off as nothing.
B. Wording - I bolded the "Non-Town" part. You emphasized the "Factional" part. That's quite interesting, wouldn't you agree?

Sorry, but this dies.
VOTE: Notice

-Nebby

No, the neighbourhood one doesn't explicitly state it has daytalk. It says it's there for a day and night phase.

A. After spending from 7am to 5pm reading this thread, 10 hours, I actually don't have the energy.
B. Because the part that I noticed first was that it was factional. I don't even get what you're getting at here, tbh.

And quite honestly it's annoying that the one damn person who should be able to read me having been in a hydra with me before and seeing my inner thought process is pushing something that's at worst a "Jae is stupid as usual" tell for me.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Legit slip A&N? You think?

But whatever. Quoting this so I can look over LUV again in the morning and check the context in full here.

Also your problem with Sondam isn't the tell. I get what you were thinking, but they weren't pushing a slip.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I know that but just stop. The non-town part was originally in italics which naturally forces people to draw their attention to it. There is no way you missed that.

So you're positing I came into this thread, as scum, saw it said "non-town", then thought "hey you know what would be an absolutely brilliant idea??? Trying to get town to build this for ??? reasons because Nahdia wouldn't OBVIOUSLY point out to them that it's a non-town wonder!"

Fuck off.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Like, I'm fucking stupid but I'd actually be thinking a little bit more about my actions as scum considering I've barely played the alignment.

Unless you're claiming that I'm saying I thought it'd be a good idea to submit the day chat thing then CLAIM IT IN THREAD AS SCUM KNOWING IT'S NON-TOWN.

Because remember, you're positing that there's no way I could possibly have missed it's non-town in a 10 hour marathon read of the damn thread.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

No you saw it and tried to be bold. You just said you spent over 8+ hours reading this thread.

10. I spent 10 hours trying to catch up because I went to sleep as the thread opened and you guys decided to have stupid ass mechanical arguments instead of getting it over and done with and scumhunting. Which I thought you were probably town for trying to push it away from that.

Can you link me a game where you've pushed something as a "slip" as town before?

Be bold with what? Like what's the scum motivation there?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

A. -
B. That you aren't town.

Why would a neighbourhood even exist during the dayphase if it was locked? That just seems silly to me.

But the thing is I can read you. Right now I'm not getting the townvibes my dude.
But I'm gonna go to sleep. I think I need it imo.

-Nebby.

B. ? I don't get it. I told you what stood out to me when I read it originally. Town is a faction.

You're not getting townvibes because you're not trying to read me. You're just trying to get a scumread off a tell or perceived slip, and I know you're not pushing it as such but that is actually what you're positing, is that I somehow scumslipped there, yes? Most slips aren't actually slips, and you know that.

You're being lazy again, and I know you're able to scumhunt better than this.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Don't trust A&N Hydra's over aggression as much as some others do. They're hedging their bets on too many wagons and some of the reads are too surface level looking for my liking.

Alisae is still newish and a lot of NAI things come across as scummy to him.
Have you ever played with Malachite before? It's a strong towntell for her to post as much as she has.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

It's not a scumtell when she

doesn't

post but the Akane head tends to post a lot more as town, so when that happens there's a very solid chance that she's town. The engagement with wanting the neighborizer wonder and fight for it isn't something I'd expect from her as scum at all. It's second-hand meta from Firebringer that has been helpful in reading her in a past game for me.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Can you talk to me about your Frogger read? I wasn't a huge fan of the shallow read on LUV from him and the townread on Spiffeh that looked kinda like he was trying to buddy him.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

No you saw it and tried to be bold. You just said you spent over 8+ hours reading this thread.

10. I spent 10 hours trying to catch up because I went to sleep as the thread opened and you guys decided to have stupid ass mechanical arguments instead of getting it over and done with and scumhunting. Which I thought you were probably town for trying to push it away from that.

Can you link me a game where you've pushed something as a "slip" as town before?

Be bold with what? Like what's the scum motivation there?

You know I was just trolling a bit earlier as a way to feel you out and get you involved into the game but this response seals it for me. The fact that you're trying to doubt cast my push by asking for a game in where I push a slip as town speaks volumes.

You're trying to tell me that you saw The Great Lighthouse and then immediately after your eyes magically skipped to the words factional. Considering what has been already pointed out, I find that very hard to believe. It's quite bold though because not only did you thought you could dumb tell and get away with it, you also tried to sell us on something that masons and neighbors don't really need.

That's not doubt casting. That's asking for a game where you've done the same so I know if it's a personality trait or my scumtell. I've caught scum before for pushing on slips that aren't actually slips. I've also correctly identified town doing it as opposed to scum doing it before. It would help to know if you've done it before as town.

I'm trying to tell you I skimmed it when I c/p'ed it to the hydra pt to discuss with mastina when she had the time. And I don't dumb tell. I've chewed out a previous hydra partner for doing it before, and that was when we were actually scum. I very rarely gambit, I don't dumbtell, and I almost always have a red flag when someone tries to push a non-slip as a scumslip.

And yes, masons and neighbours can use daytalk to devastating effect. So can scum. Ask MathBlade.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Can you talk to me about your Frogger read? I wasn't a huge fan of the shallow read on LUV from him and the townread on Spiffeh that looked kinda like he was trying to buddy him.

I call bullshit that my read was shallow on Uzi.

And then I started to doubt my spiffeh read. Are you even paying attention?

See: 10 hours of straight reading.

You were the one that tr Uzi for tring nero?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Can you talk to me about your Frogger read? I wasn't a huge fan of the shallow read on LUV from him and the townread on Spiffeh that looked kinda like he was trying to buddy him.

i don't see the issue of trusting a meta-read on

Day 1

with 21 players.
if he's still holding onto it on Day 4 or something, then yeah ok.

if you read on he actually strongly attacks Spiffeh for his weak hop on the same wagon Frogger was on which was town, beofre hopping on Yuri while i was still the largest wagon.
shows his reads aren't static and he's genuinely searching, imo

I'll check back up on it. I guess I need sleep and a fresh look because I'm not remembering things too well.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I probably haven't to be honest.

See I mean that sounds believable but at the same time, the fact that you just said you copied and pasted it, means it was highlighted and that you probably took another look at it before dumping it into the Hydra PT. If so, if you're town, you would realize there would be no reason to discuss it.

Mmkay. Your issue with it is you think it was a bold dumb tell rather than a slip, though, from what I'm gathering from your push here?

I'm sorry I don't live up to your standards when I'm trying to catch up on 30-40 pages of content? Pre much all I can say there.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

You were the one that tr Uzi for tring nero?

No.

I tr Uzi, but not for that.

Hm I put down the wrong person, sorry. I did have an issue with the Spiffeh buddying and the meta reading clear of Uzi but I forgot about the other reasons you had for tring Uzi that I agreed with earlier on.

Its been a long day.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Vecna achieved obvtown levels earlier and I really want DEO hydra to not be salty at them

Talk to me about this? I haven't liked the way it has been shading The DEO, yet comes across as though it believes they're town when it does.

Your assumption that it will be obvious when Titus is scum is false.

Approaching her like that is a mistake.

I have meta-reasons to be suspicious. Maybe they will vanish in time, maybe they will not.

Call it shading if you want, I really dont care.

Im gonna keep an open mind and not rule anything out for now.

Ill try to do so without getting in the way of town-titus (if that is the case), but im gonna keep prodding to see if everyhing is in order.

So far nothing ive seen from Titus should give anyone a lock on her alignment, so "shading me for shading her" is total nonsense.

I mean to be fair I'm more interested in the MathBlade head currently, as I think they're the one I'll be able to read easiest of the two due to experience, but I don't think I've ever incorrectly read Titus when she's been scum. 2 game titus replacemenet meta OP.

I get the benefit of the doubt and wanting Titus to do her job if she's town, but I feel like your posts have been more designed to throw doubt on her reads a lot.

I do like that you were willing to stick your neck out so far for your LUV read though. My issue is just with Elbirn calling it "obvtown levels" when I'm not sure on things as they stand.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I know that but just stop. The non-town part was originally in italics which naturally forces people to draw their attention to it. There is no way you missed that.

So you're positing I came into this thread, as scum, saw it said "non-town", then thought "hey you know what would be an absolutely brilliant idea??? Trying to get town to build this for ??? reasons because Nahdia wouldn't OBVIOUSLY point out to them that it's a non-town wonder!"

Fuck off.

Forcing townslips by pretending to not read something scum wouldve obviously read and be aware of though?

I mean, either its a hard townslip or a forced one/dumbtell.

That sounds like a plausible strategy for scum wouldnt you agree?

I mean that didn't cross my mind at that point, but yeah.

I don't necessarily think those are the only two options though. Carelessness and trying to rush things can come from either alignment. Overall it's pretty null to have not read something fully because you're trying to rush things.

Reading things as townslips when they're not more often than not causes a loss.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Got like Vecna, AnN, Drixx TRs so far. It was hard to digest much of anything because I only read and didn't take it in as it happened. Off work tomorrow though so I'm hopeful for tomorrow

Same tbh, it's why I'm trying to engage despite feeling fried, basically.

What's your take on Spiffeh? Specifically his push against a resolution due to experiences from a past game, the reaction to someone pointing out what looked like Frogger buddying him, and Frogger's push on him for joining the Maxous wagon?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

@Vecna stuff like this is what I have an issue with. It's not engaging on why the read is wrong but feels more like you want the slot ignored entirely by being considered incompetent or something.

Spoiler:

I didn't notice Vecna was the first one to say 5 either. To be fair, me, him, and Maria just finished a game together where there were 20+ players and we were on a scum team of 5.

9=2
12=3
16=4
20=5
24=6

Typical # of scum to balance a game of the given size. May vary.

And considering Undertale and theme game you

really

think this is valid?

FoS Vecna and PV.

~~Math

Its a theme-game where all players have equal opportunities at the same power-level. Why wouldnt a standard distribution be used?

If this is really the level of reads I can expect from you guys this game ill feel cheated after having to deal with the real deal last game.

Wait tf did they just agree to chill for now? Hot damn

Also DEO, now that I look at it, Fro99er is also defending Vecna, even explaining how he perceives vecna's points to Drixx. I don't have a problem w Fro99er doin this, but I'm wondering why you don't.

I'm focused on you and your hard defense, not just people townreading Vecna.

Titus, are you looking for people defending their scum-teammate, or scum just white-knighting?

If its the first, please use your energy more productive.

Wait tf did they just agree to chill for now? Hot damn

Also DEO, now that I look at it, Fro99er is also defending Vecna, even explaining how he perceives vecna's points to Drixx. I don't have a problem w Fro99er doin this, but I'm wondering why you don't.

I'm focused on you and your hard defense, not just people townreading Vecna.

Titus, are you looking for people defending their scum-teammate, or scum just white-knighting?

If its the first, please use your energy more productive.

Why does that matter? Both are scum motivations. Why are you interrupting my attempts to get reads?

Im just trying to make sure that you dont operate based on false assumptions, but carry on

The only reason to pass on day chat would be because they hope something better will come along later. Day chat is like one of the main advantages scum have on this site (and the site statistics back it up). The idea that they would pass on it (remember: they can only build it today ... if they pass on it, then presumably it's gone forever {excepting if multiple wonders repeat the same effect, which would be lazy and I know Nahdia isn't}) just because Science lets them plan what buildings to try for at night ... is just plain absurd. Planning which buildings to take is like priority level negative (insert really large integer) compared to what scum can use day chat to coordinate. The whole argument is so over the top ridiculous that I'm seriously wondering if Vecna is just trolling me at this point.

I agree daychat is very powerful, which was my main concern for not wanting science in the first place.

I think what Vecna is saying is that if science is chosen, then they can pass on choosing day chat to try to block off as many of the other D1 wonders that only town can grab, thereby limiting town's power a bit more. They can coordinate at night, knowing they get to choose that night from D1 wonders also with knowledge of what D2 wonders are. So it's not about waiting for powers as much as limiting town's powers on D1.

I'm not sure if that's enough of an argument to make me want to choose none, because I also buy your science argument. I think titus and spiffeh are town. I thought you were town on your first post, but then the back and forth with you and Vecna I have no idea. I've also never seen scum!drixx play. I'm town and if you, titus, spiffeh, ABR are town, we're going to win this. It'll be like mafiaception, but with titus on our side.

Scum w/ Vecna likely found.

Daychat and science are not related. Daychat is powerful in its own right. In fact daychat and science together leads for more ways for scum to possibly slip. And there is very little chance scum pass on daychat. If they do they are idiots and will summarily be lynched anyway. In other words not worried about a scum no daychat world. Because Titus and I will catch them.

~~Math

After these last posts from your head my faith in that is slowly dissipating.

I was reading them hold on now I think the only one of those I would call a shade throw was the one where I said do I have to say you have a big dick to get a townread because whenever someone strokes your ego you seem to tr them (drixx for one) I don't see how you call my Leon things shade when one was making a statement and the other was a fact, How is a naked vote on Uzi and a vote on Max Shade?
~Maria

A shade is any comment that puts a player in a negative light, doubly so when unwarranted. You've been trying to get me, Spiffeh, Drixx, Creature and A and N to turn on each other for awhile now.

Say, what's your Yuki read?

How is this shading any different from poking people to see how they respond? Why do you always make it out to be such a bad thing?

Like, 50% of your posts or so has been calling people out on shading other people. You dont really believe only scum do that, do you?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Are we talking to JaeReed or mastina right now, and does that player always talk like this?

Like, with this tone. Does it sound natural to someone who is familiar with the poster?

pedit: Spiffeh is mickey avatar right? Not sure, let me think about him. I think I saw that frogger push and thought it looked good but I wanted to find something for myself

JaeReed. This is my game to try to improve with teaching behind the scenes.

By the time I finished reading up it was late for US time I think tho. I don't know if she's read up on the thread or not, but basically she's not going to be giving me any reads or anything, but just guiding me. So like "given this, what do you think?" type stuff, and "you see that, now ask yourself this".

And no, this tone shouldn't be normal for me I'd think? I'm pretty out of it rn and just trying to get engaged since my memory works better on things I was actually here for.

Yeah he's the mickey avatar.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

So you take issue with me defending myself and my strongest townread (LUV)? And letting them know theyre wrong about both?

Because thats what all those posts are except for the last one.

No, not quite. I take issue with the way it was done.

I think I mentioned before that I actually liked the fact that you were willing to risk your own neck for your tr on luv.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

And I did engage several times, in great detail, why I believe the read on LUV is wrong.

Youre awarded 1 suspicion point.

I just checked. No you did not before the majority of thoses posts. Your earliest mention of actual reasoning for why LUV was any different from his scum meta was 661. There was only one post in my quotes there that came after that.

Following it up after that point doesn't change the fact that you were shading The DEO without explaining why you believed them to be wrong beforehand.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Not caught up yet. Read up to about page 70.

Quick points:
A&N is obvtown. Stop it.
LUV, if I made consistent notes all the way through while I was catching up I literally would never have caught up with the rate you guys were churning out pages.
Vecna saying I avoided the thread after he voted me or some shit is an actual lie. It was a full hour of nothing from it since my last post and I had to have dinner and go to bed at some stage. And of course I'd have to iso it to find the posts that pinged me when it asked me to quote them. That argument would hold more weight if it didn't happen in a fucking fluid conversation where I was responding to things as I got them.
Frogger trying to set me up as mafia if it's multiball based off one comment that quite literally was just me not reading something properly makes me really uneasy.

VOTE: Vecna

I'm having a lot of trouble here because on the one hand some of its content is actually pretty solid, and on the other some is just super fucking slimey, like trying to tie me to Yuri because of the way Yuri was defending me despite the fact that Yuri has defended and attempted to buddy

a lot

of people this game. It really feels like it knows Yuri will flip scum and is trying to set up a mislynch on me. I feel like it's approaching the game from a set stances mindset.

Yuri: I'm not a fan of the buddying and whiteknighting, which I know is ironic coming from me. That said I don't feel like the emotional response to LUV's push to reveal their main was fake.
beeboy: I feel like the majority of your scumreads are lynchbait and you're usually better than that. That said, disagree with Spiffeh on the meta case. My meta on beeboy is the opposite way around, and more recent. He seems to have been largely disengaged with his games in general (at least roughly 6 months back).
LUV: I thought he was lock town with the way he was being a douche to Yuri and trying to get the main outed so he could talk about his read there, because it's something that is actually below the belt to do as scum. The fact that he later claims the whole push there was fake and he didn't actually know Yuri to begin with has me unsure what to think on it overall other than it being flat douchey tbh. That said, I think his push on me is more misguided than scummy.
Sondam: I think I can sort them given time, but I do need gerry to back up a bit on The DEO because I also think I can sort them given some time and interactions with both heads.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Also since this whole stupid day chat wonder talk is going on still...

mastina has pointed out to me that with the way the draft works this game is very unlikely to have started with masons since we're literally all choosing our roles as the game progresses. Alisae put me in a really uncomfortable position when they asked me if I was interested in building it because I thought it would be denying I was a mason to say I wasn't, and possibly narrowing down the pool for scum if we did have masons. I figured they might work like Trials (another game Nahdia modded) with being a passive ability assigned to slots but with the addition of being able to build wonders that doesn't work from a setup spec standpoint.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Yuri: I'm not a fan of the buddying and whiteknighting, which I know is ironic coming from me. That said I don't feel like the emotional response to LUV's push to reveal their main was fake.

How is that even alignment indicative?

If I had an alt (I don't), I'd get pissed if someone wanted me to reveal it as well, independent of if I was town or scum.

I didn't explicitly say it was AI. Did imply I was thinking about it possibly being townie so eh. Anyway, I generally find scum have a harder time faking emotional responses to things. I felt like Yuri was genuinely upset there, regardless of alignment it was really uncomfortable to read tbh.

Your point is noted.

Frogger trying to set me up as mafia if it's multiball based off one comment that quite literally was just me not reading something properly makes me really uneasy.

No, that was me saying it's quite possible you're town not slipping when everyone else was scumreading you for the slip.

Is your only read of me based off that?

No, I was just bringing up something I remembered off the top of my head from when I started trying to catch up in reading last night. I have mixed feelings on you, and I'm not fully caught up.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

@Notice: Would you believe me if I was in your position?

Depends on your other content. I'd definitely keep it in mind if we ended up in lylo together because I've lost games off scum faking townslips before, so I can see your issue with it, but I've not sat back and let anyone push it as such because I think it's stupid to be read off a "townslip" that is quite frankly just incompetence on my end. And that's being read either way. Which is why I tried to shut that down the moment Vecna said it had the possibility to be a hard townslip. It's not. It's me not reading, which would happen as either alignment when I'm rushing to catch up.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Speaking of, @Math why are you pushing a personality tell of mine as town indicative rather than null?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

you come into the thread with a scumread on me, because im apparently shading DEO.

I ask you to clarify this, and you do.

I tell you that I was defending myself, and discrediting reads off DEO against me and LUV.

You respond, stating ive never even hard-defended luv based on written reasons untill after post 670 or w/e

I show you that all the stuff you quoted, was me defending myself and discreditin the scumread i was getting from DEO, and I was only discrediting his read on LUV AFTER that post 670, showin you your points are moot.

No response to that whatsoever. My conclusion: fabricated read based on errors.

You were continually trying to make sure people weren't going to listen to The DEO - my point
You aggressively tell me I'm full of shit basically unless I can produce quote evidence - your defense
I produce said quote evidence - my support to my point
You were defending yourself and discrediting reads off DEO against yourself and LUV - your defense
I point back to my said quote evidence having quotes before your defense of LUV, with only 1 of them being after that - my rebuttal to the last part of that
You tell me I'm full of shit, basically, because you know you're town and don't want people to listen to The DEO's read on you because of that - your defense

My point is not moot. You still shaded The DEO, and discredited their reads in general because of one wrong read on you. I'll give you that some of them could be you just flat defending from a bad read but things like 132 and 650 are actually you discrediting a person's reads as a whole rather than just the one on your own slot, and those were before you gave any reasons for LUV being town. If you're meta reading someone based off past experience you can't possibly expect everyone else in the game to have the same read as you.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

....Bruh this is hilarious you were literally pushing a Jaereedhydra lynch on the basis that they slipped

Also the fact that you instantly think of this example in such a big game tells us something.

You really pay a lot of attention to what is happening in regards to Jeareed and A&E.

If you flip scum, ill take this as another suspicion point for the Jeareed Hydra.

Ah right, this is what you meant. Thank you for reminding me, because this was indeed an important observation.

--------------------------------------------------------

People, read up on the post sequence here.

A&N mentions a list of things he looks for as scum indications.

In less than a minute, Yuri chimes in with the throwback that A&N was doing one of these very things to JaeReed.

I notice that this is very suspicious. How would you read a list of things people use to look for scumtells and IMEDIATELY link it to something that person did to someone else in this game? And then mention this very example to throw it back in their face. You wouldnt, unless it has been going through your head recently.

I once again put forward the notion that if YURI flips scum, he was so quick with this leap in logic because he has been thinking about the scumslip/dumbtell that A&N was hammering on. I feel there is a potential strong association here between Yuri & Jaereed.

Its allmost too pretty to be true, but ive said it before: If Yuri is scum, this is condemning evidence against Jaereed in combination with my other points ive been putting forward.

VOTE: Yuri

Except Yuri has literally been buddying the fuck out of and defending like half the playerlist, so this association is trash and ignoring the million other people who Yuri has done this to.

I'm pretty sure this just comes from someone who knows Yuri will flip scum because you're buddies, and you can't see a way to stop this ship from sinking so you want to tie me to them for an easy "justified" mislynch tomorrow.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Can Caesar give their royal thoughts on junior senator yuri

This.

The Vecna situation will take longer than a few moments to resolve with Math, and I want to work with them to make sure their points come across in the best way possible.

~Titus

Why are you townreading Vecna?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I can only hope he will flip scum, and youre once again misrepresenting my case here. Im not talking about buddying.

im talking about a timing thing.

its almost a neurological argument.

A&E made a list of like 6-8 items that he uses to look for scumtells. It was a decent sized paragraph. Within a time-period of 60 seconds, Yuri identifies one of them as being ironic, because A&E did the very same thing with you.

My claim is that this is so short of a timeframe to have this very sharp response, that Yuri must have been thinking a decent chunk about this very fact before. You dont instantly have this fact availlable to throw it into someones face unless it has been deliberated upon earlier for other reasons. Notice how Yuri never engaged on this point before though.

That is the association that I see. One of potential scum teammates, by virtue of him instantly thinking of -your- case, out of all the potential people and all the other potential examples that mightve been in the thread at that point.

That list of scumtells is actually something I was told by someone I respect a while ago that I passed on to Alisae because of his ideas about what are/aren't scumtells. I find it telling that you notice the time frame on that and yet didn't notice that an hour had elapsed between my response to you and your vote on me early game which you then tried to spin as me not responding to being indicative of dodging engagement with you while I slept. (I know right? How fucking scummy of me to be a human being with real life needs and commitments!)

And it doesn't occur to you that Yuri might have had that instant response because they were thinking about A&E pushing on it as a slip as scummy themself if town? Of course not, because you know Yuri is your buddy and you know that wasn't town motivated, which is why you could jump to that conclusion to try to tie me to them. It doesn't even occur to you that Yuri as scum might have been looking for a way to push A&N's push on me as scum-motivated anyway. Your sole motivation there was tying me to that slot.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Can Caesar give their royal thoughts on junior senator yuri

This.

The Vecna situation will take longer than a few moments to resolve with Math, and I want to work with them to make sure their points come across in the best way possible.

~Titus

Why are you townreading Vecna?

Long story short. Reasons.

Vote Yuri. You scumread them. You'd swing a wagon towards them. We are not voting Vecna today.

What are your reads supposing Vecna is town?

I don't scumread them half as much as I scumread Vecna.

Supposing Vecna town lessens my Yuri scumread a bit, as some of that is pre-flip strengthening my read. Still not fond of the slot's whiteknighting based off shaky grounds and buddying.
I have A&N hard town both for Alisae head's reaction testing and erratic playstyle lining up with his town meta so far and for Malachite's early game posting (this is also a meta read but one I'm confident in to the point where I don't ever intend to re-evaluate on this slot).
I need more interaction with you and MathBlade to feel comfortable with a read here. My main concern is not being able to sort Math since they're not able to post as much, since their reads have aligned with mine perfectly at times and they're not scumreading me. As far as with you, I can't understand your reads on some people at all, which isn't anything new, and you seem less hard tunnel on one slot than I was expecting to see from you as either alignment. I have you at a tentative town until I get a better feel from MathBlade and see your read adjustments as the game progresses.
Drixx is hard town, I can't see scum approaching the game as he did from the start with the blatant hard buddying of a slot known to get extremely paranoid over that.
beeboy pushing the lynchbait strikes me as off for him as I usually consider him to be really good at reading the tone of players.
Frogger I can see going either way but I'm currently thinking he might be town because I get this feeling that he'd look kinda obvtown to me as scum. I almost want to do a meta dive where I mix up the tabs so I don't know from the start which game is which to see if my theory here is true, I just haven't had the time to do so yet.

As for the others I haven't been here enough and focused on them enough to poke at them to get a good feel. I do think Spiffeh believed in his meta case of beeboy, so I'd be more inclined to say town there, and I do think he believed that anything other than a no resolution would screw us, and he probably wouldn't have needed to push that viewpoint so hard as scum, I think.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Which reads of mine don't make sense? You're not getting Math until I have my theory wall of the gamestate done and wake them.

Vecna and Frogger mainly. I don't really know why you had Creature as town earlier either since I'm struggling to read him either way this game.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

UNVOTE:

I want to finish reading up what I missed out on before voting again. Titus how long will you be around?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Thanks. I know you don't always like to lay things out. I'll check the games now, most likely will have to break for lunch at some point, though, just didn't want to miss on the chance to interact.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

1839 I feel better about beeboy here ftr, leaving this til I eat for now, but Creature's focus on the wonders on that page feels like how he was focused on a mechanic in a previous game I played with him where he was town.

Had a bit of a look at Steven Universe; surface level seems to support my initial theory about Frog's scum meta and how I suspect I'd read that. This is more a reminder to myself to ISO him when I'm done catching up today and to take a more in-depth look at SU.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Admittedly I haven't talked about Beeboy that much because of #beeboy2017 Beeboy is town because as scum Beeboy is always active. He was the main active head in the hydra. I can pick out beeboy scum rather easily. Here's meta for you for it. In Mass Effect Mafia he had a lot of time but since then his activity has gone down all over the board and this game is going so fast. Source

Super super drunk atm (weekends are bad for me always sorry) but I wanted to add beeboy's town meta in our lover game supports his town game being disinterested and uninvolved as far as the aggressiveness meta stuff ppl are bringing up.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Daytalk I always feel is the best PR bar none. In Shadowrun where JaeReed is not so subtly referring scout and I used daytalk extensively to our advantage. Even though I never got a break from posting it let me remain consistent and strategize with scout. A couple of times I even told scout when to pivot and he proofed stuff I did.

Daytalk is useful if utilized by the scumteam.

But overall, it is so useless that it is now standard to include it in games, where it used to not be standard in games.

Do you agree that in this gamestate depending on who rolled scum daytalk has potential to be used to devastating effect?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Talk to me about LUV and how that comes from a town player.

~~Math

I think LUV is tunneled as fuck and surface level scummy but not actually scum. There have been key moments where his paranoia has shown a town mindset. Post 29 is a good early example. 38, 92, 149.

320 he pushes for resolution phase to be over, and as annoyed as I was initially coming in to find that I didn't even get to have a vote on it, after having to read 20ish pages of people bickering about mechanics stuff while I caught up actually confirms that the environment preceding that was a pro-scum one. Things moved to squabbles on difference of opinion and by the time I got through it I'd forgotten half the stuff I liked about people beforehand. (I'll note that when I first read it I didn't feel that way, I had a kneejerk reaction of "he doesn't want everyone to weigh in", but considering the result of not getting it over with the opinion morphed to "holy shit LUV was right")
357 also backs up the above being town motivated.

Like, his tunnel on me is wrong but I don't feel it's scummy overall, and I think there's a lot that points to him actually being town.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

BAEREED WHERE ARE YOUR READS ;~;
-Nebby

Still reading up after I knocked myself out last night. Stop posting 20ish pages a night and I might make it there, yeah?

I should also warn you not to expect a full reads list so early on in games like these. D1 in larges I just don't tend to drop them, and even less if I have a PT to share all my thoughts in instead.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Math why do you think ABR is town here?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

@Alisae Not townreading him isn't the same as scumreading him. I don't have a read on him. His play is different from what I've seen from him so far (and I don't think I could effectively meta him based off my current knowledge anyway) and I want to understand why Math is actually townreading him for it because I actually think it's different from Shadowrun. In Shadowrun he came in early pushing a scumread, and I haven't had that same feel here.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

It isn't because I have five other scumreads. ABR is genuinely Town for following through on his policy lynch threat and not posting anything remotely useful. He did the same in Shadowrun. Annoying doesn't mean scum. It is shitty play. Doesn't mean scum. From a newb or anyone besides Nero or ABR it would.

~~Math

I think if ABR were going to push a policy lynch on you he would have done that as his first vote, though, and not have wasted time with it.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Please don't hammer before I finish catching up at least? I'm close-ish to having gotten there.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Because I am getting lazy and didn't like the part I quoted and I really do think that we need to move on with this game.

WHAT don't you like about it

Because after expressing multiple scum reads and basically having the post amount to "fuck it I'll do anything" is just really weird to me. Like in the current state of the game I just don't understand why you would ever consider something like that unless you were scum seeking survivability especially when the A&N Lynch was actually really viable (and a scum read of Yuri's) starting some random af vanity wagon just seems so out of place for a town mind set.

I've done this before as town with a counterwagon where it was literally "Vote your counter or die". I had a stronger SR elsewhere and voted it and just accepted I'd die for voting my SR.

Of all things to have a problem with I think what you disliked there was actually more town indicative but ok. I also do not think A&N lynch is anywhere near a viable one.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Having a pool of people you want to vote = fine
Lynching null reads for survivability despite having multiple scum reads = not fine.

ok this cleared up the stance.

Please for the love of god don't hammer yet I still want a stance from dave on things before we go into night at least and to be caught up so I can just actually spend the time reviewing.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Aeroaut not posting in Caesar Wills It is a huge red flag and they need to be taken care of very soon if he continues not participating.

I'm guessing this is something similar to how Aristophanes is known for lurking as scum?

A game of each alignment for reference on that would be nice if so.

I haven't held any bad feelings towards the posting from the slot so far in reads and the way they've pushed them, and I think scum generally try to not draw as much attention to themselves as the roleplaying is doing.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Notice are you still here

Please engage me

Notice me, senpai-NoticeMeSenpai

I want to kick you in the shins for having the fucking gall to post this after nearly all of your posts prior completely ignoring me and just saying you want me roped for some arbitrary thing that I've already explained is nothing.

Like, I'm pretty sure you just want to mislynch me because of that fucking newbie and you don't actually give a shit about my alignment here at all. As proven by the fact that you want me roped but still go "Hmmm Vecna might be scum". I'm ignoring you until you come up with something that's actually worth my time to engage you on.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

If they already had the gimmick in mind before getting their role PM, the roleplaying is NAI.

Eh fair. I still didn't hate the Vecna push but I might just be flat biased at this stage.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

im not summarizing my stances bc ive already given em, town can ISO me after i die if they give a shit. just dont look at like.. the first half of the posts cause i sucked. the later stuff is not shit so feel free to look at my opinions and why. including Vecna sr idk that post pinged me hard and i listen to that stuff

So I'm nearly fully up to date and this is something I want addressed before a lynch since I've had this niggling feeling all day while trying to catch up.

Vecna pushing on me as scum, then saying I'm teamed with Yuri because of Yuri bringing up the slip tell that Nebby dropped himself.
So Vecna decides that if Yuri flips scum then I have to be scum, so he switches up to voting Yuri.

That disregards that he's not scumreading me for being associated with Yuri though. No matter Yuri's flip I think Vecna will be aiming to lynch me, and he's associating me with Yuri now to justify lynching Yuri first. At first I thought it was a bus because he couldn't get the support to lynch me today and his partner was failing the buddy up to town game enough to have garnered a decent amount of suspicion with Frog's case but idunno.

I actually want more discussion on this. I also want Drixx and dave to be able to catch up and post thoughts before we rush into a night phase. Agreeing with Nero that the higher posters need to cool it for a bit to let others post if we're gonna wait for catch ups and have more discussion though.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

actually i just thought of this now but fuck i dont think either titus or math would choose such a strategy as scum, theyre not those kind of people who would willingly inject this into the game even to win a game?? so theyre town and ill stand by that

This. The DEO is hard town.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Ok it's 1:30AM, I'm current, and I'm going to bed.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Sorry, I didn't really pay attention.

Notice, are you opposing Yuri wagon?

I don't even know man. I'm saying I want more opinions than just the 5 loudest people in the thread drowning out everyfucking one else and forcing everything to happen their way or no way. I don't want another 20+ pages to have to read when I wake, and I don't want another catch up where I feel extremely uncomfortable because of someone doing something that I think it's just toxic towards another person. I've been reading this all day after hitting my head last night and I'm cranky, nauseated, headachey, dizzy, and I don't have the patience to hold back my opinion on some people if certain behaviours continue.

I'm saying I'm not happy with the number of people I don't have sorted, nor the way people are trying to rush the day or control where the votes go so it's not a natural progression of things. I'm not happy with the way some things are getting completely ignored and not even discussed or asked about. I'm not happy with the way people want to end the day when 2 people declared intent to catch up and we have an actual chance to get a better read on those slots too.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Summary of this post; misframing my statements and using speculations of my actions tomorrow to try and derail our current wagon.

I don't think any of my points against you haven't actually been valid and I'm sick of these bullshit one liner responses that are just "DISCREDIT THIS SHIT AND SHUT IT DOWN NOW"

No. Like I don't think you're that incompetent with basic reading comprehension to never be able to understand what I have been trying to fucking communicate in every one of my posts when I've tried to address issues with you. I think you're just flat out misrepping me because you have Titus giving you some arbitrary fucking pass and threatening to policy everyone who disagrees, to the point where she's being toxic to her own sister.

VOTE: Vecna

[NoticeMeSenpai]

In fact, it even misframes the order of things. Yuri was a thing before you were. My 2 points for scumgreading you came before I notice the potential link between you and yuri.

You pretending that im using this link to justify my actions is laughable

You literally said you weren't lynching outside of me and Yuri when you voted me. Then you made the Yuri link and voted Yuri saying a scumflip there would condemn me, conveniently leaving out the fact that your original scumread on me had nothing to do with Yuri. It was just an excuse to switch wagons.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

This Ill specify as an extreme AtE.

This is one of the least toxic mafia games ive ever played. Everyone is rather polite after the little squable between me and Drixx (unless something has majorly changed in the last 20 pages, I still have some catching up to do).

This game has progressed naturally just fine. People have formed reads of people they see as town, and theyre fine sheeping them.

Youre trying to drive a wedge between people here.

Are you seriously fucking kidding me?

LUV's thing trying to out Yuri's main made me really fucking uncomfortable.
Titus's constant shutting down and putting down of Math and making them feel like their opinions don't matter makes me really fucking uncomfortable.

That is toxic. Toxicity isn't always yelling and screaming. Forcing people into revealing outside game links they don't want to is toxic. Gaslighting is toxic.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I'm going to bed. 2AM.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

A+N or DEO is the days lynch. EOD.

vote:Natural

These are my two hardest townreads. Talk to me about this?

I'm gonna spill the beans since ABR kinda did already, other head of A&N is Yume and she was posting a lot at the start of the game, which is something she just flat doesn't do as scum. Alisae is always all over the place.
The DEO has done something that MathBlade would never allow as scum because Math takes pride in their scumgame. The whole post ban sequence and how upset Math got from that doesn't jibe with a scum!Math, and as scum Math would be less likely to have Titus say the shit about them that Titus said.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Math am I in time for resolutions?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Mathblade you can't actually still think I'm scum lmao

I do.

~~Math

Im starting to get around to this way of thinking

ABR + Spiffeh seems possible.

Spiffeh didnt care about lynching beeboy at all. I wanted to trade him my vote for asnwers to questions - he ignored at least 6 of them.

ABR slippin the noose is a joke.

Jaereed is still scum as well.

Buddying attempt of Math noted.

Posturing noted.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Oh good.

VOTE: Natural

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Btw I'm okay with lynching BaeReed if he hasn't caught up yet.
-Nebby

1) I'm caught up to this post.
2) You knew I was putting effort in to lylo for another game, and you knew I was knocked out cold for a whole fucking day because of the concussion while you guys lynched beeboy instead of obvscum Vecna.
3) Stop using meta because you don't know how to use it correctly. I flat don't do the reads lists thing D1 of larges and you can check that. It's a verifiable fact, so is the fact that I'm less likely to do it when I have a hood I can do it in instead, which is something YOU SHOULD KNOW FROM THE GAME WE JUST FUCKING FINISHED.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

@Leon

@Leon who are you scum reading atm?

NoticeMeSenpai. There could also be scum in ABR/Yuri, but I don't feel confident about either.

Elaborate on all of these.

Notice because JaeReed doesn't seem like my experience with town!JaeReed, and he's a transparent player who doesn't really vary his style so that makes me think he's scum here. I also think he makes long rants with AtE/complaining about non-game things because that's the only thing he, uncomfortable with lying, feels comfortable talking about.

ABR and Yuri were both popular wagons that got diverted, while the beeboy lynch was pushed through much easier, so I feel that the difficulty with lynching one of them could be due to them being scum (Vecna was also a popular wagon but I'm TRing them). I wouldn't support a Yuri wagon, as their seemed towny during/after they were close to being lynched, and I was only really scumreading ABR because I thought his early inactivity was deliberate.

You don't actually know me enough to say that, we're not friends, so stop talking like you know me. Also, I do vary my style quite fucking often, so no. You have literally been in one game and saw me replace into one where I hurt a friend and became a little more subdued after that. And still proceeded to step on the toes of another friend. You trying to say you know my meta based off one game where I was a mason and another where I fucked up and hurt my friends is disingenous as fuck.

And complaining about the pace of the game is definitely a game related thing. So is complaining about the toxicity and gaslighting exhibited by certain players. Is it AI? No, or at least I don't think so in my case, but it is certainly game related. < Yes I understand this is semantics it just bugged me.

Yuri was a consensus wagon for a pretty long time and no one bothered to hard derail it for so long that I don't think they're scum. Only thing I'm wary of there is their defense of me but I think the emotional responses were genuine. ABR is town because he sees the same shit from Vecna that I do, was kinda waffling on this early game because his early game in Shadowrun was more aggressive but the push to derail the Yuri shit was good.

Talk to me about your TR on Vecna? This whole thing feels like grapes all over again.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I've seen all-town wagons on scum and all scum on a scum wagon, but never saw an all scum on a town wagon.

I've seen all scum on a town wagon before.

What are you doing, Creature? Why aren't you talking about your trs? Why aren't you paying attention to resolution stuff?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

3890 to 3902 expresses town!Vecna.

Maybe check it?

Noting this so I don't forget it when I finish reading up.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Natural is one vote away from hammer.

Anything else?

Yes DON'T FUCKING HAMMER til everyone has an opinion down!!!

Sorry >.< I just wanted to be able to have a fucking vote this time. Didn't realize it was L-1.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Bee was obvious town man. Entrance alone should have put all doubt to the side. I want to lynch Spiffy today.

VOTE: None

No. Spiffeh is town.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Hmm, I don't really remember what I mean't by "More agreeable"

Someone said you tend to townread the easy townreads and scumread the easy scumreads when you're scum. You take the path of least resistance.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

A+N or DEO is the days lynch. EOD.

vote:Natural

These are my two hardest townreads. Talk to me about this?

I'm gonna spill the beans since ABR kinda did already, other head of A&N is Yume and she was posting a lot at the start of the game, which is something she just flat doesn't do as scum. Alisae is always all over the place.
The DEO has done something that MathBlade would never allow as scum because Math takes pride in their scumgame. The whole post ban sequence and how upset Math got from that doesn't jibe with a scum!Math, and as scum Math would be less likely to have Titus say the shit about them that Titus said.

I don't agree that Yume is incapable of stringing together some posts at the start of the game, or that her other head is unable to copy her style and post on her behalf pretending to be her.

The tell was used in Shadowrun by Firebringer and Vedith both wrt to Yume. I've also heard others back that tell. Her stubbornness regarding wanting the neighborizer wonder felt really genuine and town too.

I disagree on the other head being capable of passing himself off as Yume, and if he was then why wouldn't he continue to do so since there were clearly Yume meta reads making them hard townread?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Btw I'm okay with lynching BaeReed if he hasn't caught up yet.
-Nebby

1) I'm caught up to this post.
2) You knew I was putting effort in to lylo for another game, and you knew I was knocked out cold for a whole fucking day because of the concussion while you guys lynched beeboy instead of obvscum Vecna.
3) Stop using meta because you don't know how to use it correctly. I flat don't do the reads lists thing D1 of larges and you can check that. It's a verifiable fact, so is the fact that I'm less likely to do it when I have a hood I can do it in instead, which is something YOU SHOULD KNOW FROM THE GAME WE JUST FUCKING FINISHED.

How does mastina recommend resolving the situation? I highly doubt Mastina says Vecna is scum.

mastina still hasn't read. She was 1v1ing Drixx in that lylo when this game started and has other obligations to attend to.

Also, mastina will not give me reads. That's not the point of this hydra. It's not for me to sheep mastina because I won't learn anything that way.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

You think I'm scum because I claimed PR on D1 LOL

Yes we caught you slipping Day 1. Credit to frogger may his soul RIP.

LUV lying about his role is something he does all the time. I don't think it's alignment indicative. Sadly.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

NoticeMeSenpai, do you still scumread Vecnar?

Yes. I thought that was obvious tbh.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Btw I'm okay with lynching BaeReed if he hasn't caught up yet.
-Nebby

1) I'm caught up to this post.
2) You knew I was putting effort in to lylo for another game, and you knew I was knocked out cold for a whole fucking day because of the concussion while you guys lynched beeboy instead of obvscum Vecna.
3) Stop using meta because you don't know how to use it correctly. I flat don't do the reads lists thing D1 of larges and you can check that. It's a verifiable fact, so is the fact that I'm less likely to do it when I have a hood I can do it in instead, which is something YOU SHOULD KNOW FROM THE GAME WE JUST FUCKING FINISHED.

This honestly has nothing to due to your meta BaeReed <3.
Absolutely.
Nothing.

What it does have to do with is in other games, some scum pretend to "catch up" while posting actively in the discussion. I could get you games, one example is Wratih in Large Normal 200. So yeah, atleast you're caught up now.
-Nebby

Mmkay, I just noticed the turnaround happened around when I didn't give you my readslist, which I felt by now you should know there are definitely circumstances in which I don't tend to.

As for that, do you believe 20+ pages before I woke was a reasonable pace to have expected me to always be on top of? Do you believe trying to get reads through active participation is unreasonable when you're still trying to catch up? I mean I have done the simultaneous catch up & talk thing before as town when I've replaced in to games so that in itself is NAI. Do you believe I was trying to use it as an excuse to avoid taking stances?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I prefer following my intuition with players than having explanations. I'm more of a go with my gut type of player.

You gave explanations in Shadowrun.

You need to understand that without them you look like scum literally picking anyone to me.
And it is 3x harder to sort you.

~~Math

Actually, if you remember his push on you I tried to understand it and he just wasn't explaining it. I think the most explanation he gave was probably the D&D push early game?

I've seen him push on someone in another game without giving reasons either as town. I think it's just his playstyle. (If you want a link of that game I can give it to you?)

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Talk to me about your TR on Vecna? This whole thing feels like grapes all over again.

Explain?

Titus

Reference to another game where someone was widely townread and I was on the scumfuck since RVS but got shaded out of the townblock both due to him being up the largely townread's ass and me not being able to keep up with the pace of the game. Then I was forced to try to present a solid case which is one of my major weaknesses and I was upset with being pushed and didn't want to have to claim because I was a mason and just ended up townreading him instead.

Feels like what's happening with Vecna here.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

They know it makes them hard to read and several players have asked them to post normally yet they refuse to stop.

this prob makes it more likely they are town. I mean, I guess he could go "so ppl are scum reading me, who cares!" b/c he's not a noob and wouldn't be scared off but in general I think a refusal to do something that's getting you scumread is townish.

I agree with this (still, despite ppl saying it's NAI but w/e), but I also think Spiffeh's complaining about it is another town indicative thing for Spiffeh so I wanted to quote this for Math's benefit. The frustration with that playstyle making them hard to read feels like a town perspective. Scum wouldn't mind the noise so much I think.

I also wanna note I've seen gerry do this same roleplaying thing before as town. He refused to stop too. http://emforummaf.prophpbb.com/search.p ... r=gerryoat

[NoticeMeSenpai]

No.
What you are doing is you are saying "Hey, my confbias will be yelling IMPACTFUL WORDS at you and hopefully you get lynched because of it."
I honestly think you're not even pushing a read anymore tbh.
-Nebby

And this is the moment you start omgusing.

You need to stop doing this shit. I can't protect you in every fucking game, and once I die or it hits lylo people just lynch you anyway. At some point you need to start helping yourself. Please stop making my life harder. I can't protect you and hunt scum and try to convince others that I'm right all at the same time.

Take a step back, look at the push as a whole, and tell me whether you think it is at all plausible that your play could have caused people to genuinely believe that you're so close to confirmed scum that they might as well just look for your buddies.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

confirmation bias can only come from town
it means being subconsciously biased towards information that feeds the worldview you already have

also how can Nero be a lost, lost soul if he's scum? even without the erroneous confbias def youre still treating him like he's wrong town

Uncertain town tend to contradict themselves like that. Yes it's sloppy, but Alisae would have their shit together a little more than this if they were scum I think.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

you aren't this dumb so stop playing the dumb card. Though I guess Maria bought it so idk.

I really am not sure what you were implying with 4444 either tbh.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

ABR is always manipulative. It's one of his more endearing traits.

This dude.
By the name of Yuri
Was at L-1 yesterday.
Then ABR came in.
And suddenly Yuri wasn't at L-1.
And there were fights and the town was sturred into chaos.
-Nebby

Yuri was a bad wagon. There wasn't even a real counter before things got derailed.
Ask yourself why, in a Yuri!scum world, there's no counter to the consensus lynch.
Either Yuri is town, or Yuri's scum buddies literally weren't around to push it away from them, or Yuri's scum buddies were 100% fine with bussing.
ABR derailing the wagon after the point where I called for a pause on the rush to end the day doesn't feel like a buddy move. He could have done that earlier.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

II felt like 4444 was p obvious. I felt like he was scummy for trying to blame ABR for EOD. He said he wasn't. I posted quotes of him blaming ABR and then him saying that he was blaming ABR.

hm ok my possible interpretation was way off then.

I had that you thought he was saying he was in a good position as scum with the townblock and lynch and ABR ruined it which was pretty far from how I read that post.

I think he was trying to blame ABR for the dismantling of the townblock, not necessarily the beeboy lynch?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Mastin try to sign your posts.

mastina isn't playing. All JaeReed.

Mastina hasn't even read up. The point of the hydra is that she teaches me based on my play how to play better. She won't be giving me reads or reasons or anything.

So, she won't be spoonfeeding me, just guiding, and that's once she's less busy and has an idea of what's going on.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Hi BaeReed.
Remember when LUV hopped on you for that dumbtell?
What are your thoughts on that?
-Nebby

If you paid attention you'd know my thoughts on that.

One day I'll walk you through what it looks like when scum does it and what it looks like when town does it.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

The tell was used in Shadowrun by Firebringer and Vedith both wrt to Yume

Do you think that Yume wouldn't try to copy this as scum if she gets town read for it?

Yume doesn't even try to copy this as town all the time. I don't believe she could have kept up the level of posting she did early game as scum given her meta. Even if she was trying to replicate it.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Is this the same Gerryoat from EM?

Yup, and the other head of Sondam hydra is Ripple.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Yume and I were also in a hydra in Gitsou and I don't she posted at all. I mean I'll check but I think the whether or not she is posting is NAI.

Her not posting is NAI. She does it as either alignment.
Her posting is a pretty strong towntell.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I prefer following my intuition with players than having explanations. I'm more of a go with my gut type of player.

You gave explanations in Shadowrun.

You need to understand that without them you look like scum literally picking anyone to me.
And it is 3x harder to sort you.

~~Math

Actually, if you remember his push on you I tried to understand it and he just wasn't explaining it. I think the most explanation he gave was probably the D&D push early game?

I've seen him push on someone in another game without giving reasons either as town. I think it's just his playstyle. (If you want a link of that game I can give it to you?)

Please. I will take any input from my townreads at this point that has reasons.

~~Math

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=68914

[NoticeMeSenpai]

If you want it JaeReed please let me know.

~~Math

Yes please. I don't want to just ignore points that you feel are valid even if we disagree. I'd rather us work it out.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I am not quoting or talking about an ongoing game. Your attempts to get me modkilled are scummy AF.

You should never had alluded to it in the first place if it was ongoing :/

[NoticeMeSenpai]

@Titus mastina's advice for a fractured town would be to take control of the game, try to get people to work with her and with each other. Get common ground, explain reads in detail and try to synchronize with players by appealing to them individually. She said try to tailor arguments to each player you want to get together in your townbloc.

That's what she would do. She said if I don't feel I can do that with the lack of knowledge on how most of the players in this playerlist works then it's not as viable as something that can be done.

Her strategy for a fractured hydra is much the same. Get them to common ground, solidified. Sort out their differences, weigh in, and give them a grip on what they need to do: where they're right, wrong, where both are right, where both are wrong, where one is right in one way but wrong in another, and vice-versa.

I think that's her advice to me on what you asked though rather than advice to you. I'm not sure whether that's what you wanted from her was to coach me on that or to give you advice? I also tried to paraphrase to make it shorter since the original response was longer.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Spoiler: posts creature said to look at

Actually.
Jesus fucking crist.
What the fuck am I doing...
This town went fucking crazy and nuts and not focused on Yuri once ABR started doing things...
Timing is kinda conveniant actually.
-Nebby

BINGO

FLASHWAGON ALBERT B SCUMLORD

Titus, the foundation is in place. Now hammer Beeboy to see what theyre made off

VOTE: Beeboy

LET THE DIE BE CAST

COOKIE MONSTER WHAT THE HELL IS THIS SHIT

ALISAE FUCKING READ THIS HE SAYS ABR IS PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE THEN VOTES WITH ABR SECONDS LATER. COME ON

Sup frogger, you dont realize either it gives us scum, or discredits him enough for people to see the light?

youre not really this dense right?

Scum!vecna being townread by nearly everyone putting himself on the chopping block to get one town lynched? Dont make me laugh.

Scum!Vecna being townread by Titus knows he's never getting lynched, especially so as he and Titus seem in agreement that everyone who scumreads him is basically either scum or a policy lynch.

Actually.
Jesus fucking crist.
What the fuck am I doing...
This town went fucking crazy and nuts and not focused on Yuri once ABR started doing things...
Timing is kinda conveniant actually.
-Nebby

BINGO

FLASHWAGON ALBERT B SCUMLORD

Titus, the foundation is in place. Now hammer Beeboy to see what theyre made off

VOTE: Beeboy

LET THE DIE BE CAST

COOKIE MONSTER WHAT THE HELL IS THIS SHIT

Titus.
Look at this with a clear mind.
And ask yourself "Is Vecna's behavoir here townish? Is it towny to plant this kind of paranoia and foundation in the town? Is it towny to vote with someone you just voted and scumread?"
-Nebby

Nebby, I want to end the day either on Beeboy or ABR. ABR is my scumread, Beeboy will either flip scum or give me what I want tomorrow.

Why would I 1v1 ABR here as scum? While im in absolutely no danger of getting lynched whatsoever.

Im doing it because im convinced he's scum and a detriment to town.

We were all getting along. Untill he stopped lurking and started attacking titus, and rummaging around.

All of a sudden frog is hopping around, youre hopping around, all coherence is gone.

Lynch me if you must, but you WILL lynch ABR tomorrow.

He would 1v1 ABR as scum because he knows he'll win with the combination of buddies to back him and Titus hard tring him. He's overjustifying it here too, by framing ABR as a detriment to town he's setting himself up for any backlash from an ABR!townflip with "oh but he was anti-town because he pushed on Titus and caused the townblock to fall apart". If the bloc was solid to begin with then that wouldn't have happened. That wasn't a townbloc, that was a bloc with scum firmly rooted in it.

Came off as Vecna defending LUV to me.
-Nebby

Youre right. Im defending the obvious town player because some people are too dense to see it.

Now im 1v1'ing ARB because people are too dense to see it.

Take your pick.

Whiteknighting.

I dare to commit. I dare to stand for something.

You have the choice to lynch the obv choice or the obv scum.

Yes I casted doubt. Because you need to doubt the obvious scum.

Scum casts doubt without you knowing it. I do it blatantly and right in your face.

Because I know what has to happen. And im convinced about it.

Grandstanding with the "I dare to commit. I dare to stand for something."

Scum casting doubt is how you catch scum. This is also disingenuous because he was one of the ones scumreading Sondam for doubtcasting.

I think some people are overreacting to the way how I tried to push them to vote my way. 2 votes were allready on me from before, and maria was scumreading me before.

ABR on my wagon is the obvious scum.

Ceasar could be scum, but we dont have enough information.

Im a bit sad that the Alisae hydra and Froggeh are voting me. I thought they would see what I am doing, and realize it cannot possibly be scum motivated (misguided town at the worst). Im trying to defend our townblock and get the interfearing scum lynched.

Titus is right.

Anyone doubting just needs to go thrrough ABR's iso.

He went from hard-lurking, to attacking titus, to pretending to want to get replaced, to suddenly being hyper-active and trying to strongarm people into a certain lynch.

His response to my action was the most telling. He knew he had nowhere to go as soon as I did such a crazy move that made sure there was no way back for me.

his only course of action now is to try and win the 1v1 and try and bullshit his way out of this situation tomorrow.

If he was town he would try and handle it differently.

Spends half the post on AtE, buddies Titus HARD. Throws shade at someone wanting to be replaced and calls it pretend.

The whole fucking assumption of how one should act when pushing their scumread is gross here too. "If he was town he would try and handle it differently." I don't believe that Vecna actually believes this, and I think that if he truly thought that meant anything there wouldn't have been a need for half this post to be AtE.

I dare to commit. I dare to stand for something.

You have the choice to lynch the obv choice or the obv scum.

Yes I casted doubt. Because you need to doubt the obvious scum.

Scum casts doubt without you knowing it. I do it blatantly and right in your face.

Because I know what has to happen. And im convinced about it.

You're so tough look at you.

WITNESS ME

If I do end up getting lynched, tomorrow you will look for the people that will blame my mislynch on me and that go "its his own fault for doing something so incredibly scummy, he brought it on himself, blabla"

And you will not make excuses but lynch ABR.

Were not lynching me though. Were lynching this scum-lord and hard-confirming me as town.

Im off to bed now.

Do the smart thing.

Proof that he was 100% confident he wasn't getting lynched because he's been up Titus' ass all game.

I still don't see what you see, buddy. I see confident scum that was certain he'd never get lynched over ABR and could bullshit his way out of it, and laid the foundation to do so.

VOTE: Vecna

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Ali was technically scum in http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=70047 although some players don't consider 3p as scum for some reason.

It's not, really. Jester play definitely can't be compared to scum play either. Jester wants to look anti-town/pro-scum whereas scum want to look pro-town/anti-scum.

I think that's the game where Alibae advertized what they were basically as well so people just took pity on them and lynched them? Which means it's not even really a reflection on their jester/self aligned play, either.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

BaeReed do you think Vecna v ABR was theatre?
-Nebby

No.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I'm not sure how much more I can stand of this JaeReed if I lose my third rock this game (Drixx and Frogger being the other two). Can you do something else today, like Caesar? We won In Memory because my town rocks got left alive and didn't turn on each other.

~Titus

I feel like you're just wanting to policy lynch Caesar. It's a lot like the Yuri lynch was looking to be shaping up to be, where it's consensus because people are scum and/or too lazy to scumhunt.

In Memory you actually refused to lynch my scumread because you thought he was town. Vaxkiller. It was only because Math derphammered that we got that. I would have had you as hard scum if it weren't for Math being in that hydra.

I'm pretty sure you've just been buddied up to here. Even you couldn't give me a reason for Vecna being town. Why do you think Vecna is town? I can't see whatever it is you're seeing, and I feel like you're ignoring the cases I present because you don't want to see what it is I'm seeing.

I want to work with you, I really do, but it feels like you only want me to blindly sheep you and that's the kind of behaviour I'm in this hydra to try to get away from in order to improve my game.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Titus is going to bed let's talk JaeReed...Did you get a chance to see my VCA or did it get drowned out?

~~Math

I saw it. I'm not sure on the thoughts there because I do VCA differently to that, but I am thinking about it and have been thinking on how to approach what I further need from you with that.

I feel like you approach VCA with a lot of your reads already in mind, where my feelings with it are that VCA should be done independently of reads. So no ruling someone out just because you townread them. Which was a lot of the issue I took with it in Yuri mafia I think. The vote counts are hard data. They're fact. If you're ignoring some of that fact because you think someone is town or scum then it's already going to be kinda ineffective I think?

I'm not entirely sure the resolution phase votes are AI, also. The first resolution phase lasted basically only while I was sleeping. It's possible scum just hadn't had time to get to the thread, which I feel you didn't factor in there.

This is all just me trying to give constructive feedback at this point because without I think another day of flips I can't do as much with it and I don't want to point out exactly what I'm going to be looking for ahead of time for obvious reasons.

Is it possible for you to do the analysis without making any assumptions of the above kind?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

@Math hmm ok. I like to look for [REDACTED] with mine. I feel like you already know one of the techniques I use which so far seems really reliable for me but comes in after at least two lynches.

I'll re-ISO Spiffeh for you, as I really don't want to just brush you off, but from what I remember he just seemed town to me. I just really don't want to do it right now, so it'll have to be tonight or tomorrow depending on how I feel later.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

!!nancy!!

I was feeling pretty down since I read up this morning, but that replace in cheers me up a little.

UNVOTE:

[NoticeMeSenpai]

BaeReed your thoughts on my Elbrin sparknotes?
-Nebby

Initially? "Use post tags for post numbers" >.> Forcing me to do the legwork of finding the posts to be able to check context in a game this fast paced is a drag. I'm probably not the only one that feels that way.

There were a few posts of his that pinged me as townish, and others that seemed a toss up between dumb or scum, so I just wrote him off as incompetent if I'm telling the truth.

I'll take another look there after I ISO Spif for Math.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

yeah no way am i reading dozens of pages of past interactions when I can start fresh D2. Wouldn't be much different than replacing out overnight

Have you been keeping up with this day phase?
What are your reads so far?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

!!nancy!!

I was feeling pretty down since I read up this morning, but that replace in cheers me up a little.

UNVOTE:

xD ily

Can I sheep you? ^_^

<3 no, babe.

Have you been following along? Is there anything you need from me to catch up?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Notice because JaeReed doesn't seem like my experience with town!JaeReed, and he's a transparent player who doesn't really vary his style so that makes me think he's scum here. I also think he makes long rants with AtE/complaining about non-game things because that's the only thing he, uncomfortable with lying, feels comfortable talking about.

ABR and Yuri were both popular wagons that got diverted, while the beeboy lynch was pushed through much easier, so I feel that the difficulty with lynching one of them could be due to them being scum (Vecna was also a popular wagon but I'm TRing them). I wouldn't support a Yuri wagon, as their seemed towny during/after they were close to being lynched, and I was only really scumreading ABR because I thought his early inactivity was deliberate.

You don't actually know me enough to say that, we're not friends, so stop talking like you know me. Also, I do vary my style quite fucking often, so no. You have literally been in one game and saw me replace into one where I hurt a friend and became a little more subdued after that. And still proceeded to step on the toes of another friend. You trying to say you know my meta based off one game where I was a mason and another where I fucked up and hurt my friends is disingenous as fuck.

And complaining about the pace of the game is definitely a game related thing. So is complaining about the toxicity and gaslighting exhibited by certain players. Is it AI? No, or at least I don't think so in my case, but it is certainly game related. < Yes I understand this is semantics it just bugged me.

Yuri was a consensus wagon for a pretty long time and no one bothered to hard derail it for so long that I don't think they're scum. Only thing I'm wary of there is their defense of me but I think the emotional responses were genuine. ABR is town because he sees the same shit from Vecna that I do, was kinda waffling on this early game because his early game in Shadowrun was more aggressive but the push to derail the Yuri shit was good.

Talk to me about your TR on Vecna? This whole thing feels like grapes all over again.

First off, I apologize if I was coming off like I know your mindset. My intention was to comment on your play, nothing more.

I'm also counting Undertale mafia since I was still following it after my death. I think I explained more clearly in an earlier post, but I interpret your technically game-related, but not game-advancing comments about game length and such as active lurking, the appearance of contributing while not really doing so.

I see what you're saying about Yuri's wagon, but the lack of a visible derail could be caution on the part of his buddies, if they are scum (which, mind you, I doubt at this point).

My Vecna-read was solidified during resolution phase, he made such a strong push for None, and a case for the other two being anti-town, that I think it came from a genuine place. My reads have also been similar to his and I haven't yet had a reason to doubt my TR on him.

How do you feel about A&N and LUV, ABR's other two SRs?

Apology accepted, sorry for blowing up it just kinda irks me when people do that when they actually don't have all that much experience with me. It's a bad use of meta, which I do as well so I'm really just a hypocrite but eh.

I guess, I couldn't keep up with the pace of the game with multiple people posting 80+ posts a day. I'd whine about that anyway. It was making it extremely difficult to develop reads when I felt like I was in a race to read one page before 2-3 more popped up. Pace seems to have slowed since so hopefully I can keep up now. Undertale maf wasn't so...painstakingly active when I replaced in that I couldn't keep up, same with DOTA. Typhon I couldn't keep up but because I was busy irl so that's different again from here.

I guess it's possible, but it would be really suboptimal scum play imo? I just don't see a reason for scum to bus early D1, and the only other explanation for that is the buddies all being in the low post count ppl, which feels too easy. I can't see a reason scum wouldn't take a hard stance on a buddy guaranteed to go down, either by hard defending and attempting to derail or by bussing for the cred. I can only see being cautious as an option if you're not entirely sure it'll go through?

I'll go look it over again. I liked his attempts to hold shit together between this post and the Titus replace out. Felt like scum didn't need to step in that hard.

A&N and LUV are both obvtown. I felt like I made my stances there clear tbh.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Patricians and Senators, citizens all, it is a day of mourning throughout Imperial Rome!

Our beloved Great-Uncle, Julius Caesar, has gone to explore the heroic Fields of Elysium under the patronage of Great Mars. In his will, He has named Us His adopted Son and sole heir, and We inherit His titles, style, and responsibility as sole Emperor.

Senators DEO and Spiffeh also enter the Halls of Pluto this sad day, and we regret their passing. It is with a heavy heart that we welcome their deputies, Senator Mathblade and Senator nancy, to Our conclave. Senator Mathblade, as DEO's successor, is inherits Our admiration for his predecessor's loyalty. We feel We shall quickly come to a Judgment of her motives, as we have had dealings with her prior to her elevation to the Senate.

Our full views shall be expounded upon in a short time, in a dedicated speech to the Senate, but We wish to comment now on two things.

First, it is to Our great relief and happiness that the Senate's discourse has

finally

slowed to a point where We may remain fully caught up. We are current in the Senate's affairs, and from this point on, barring another absurd sequences of outbursts in a short period, you may expect your Glorious Emperor to take a fully active role in the Senate's affairs.

Second, we have had second thoughts of our suspicion of Senator Rampage, and shall be reviewing the Senate's records on him to make a determination as to whether Our initial impression or our later doubts were in the right.

Long live the Empire!

Spoiler: Grumbles and yowls for the reading imparied

Ugh, this translation gig again?

In short, Caesar is sad to see the people who replaced out go, but is gladdened by the replacements. Titus, we love you, but please never hydra with Math again. Math, of course, remains a TR. nancy, it's good to see you again, welcome to this utter shitshow of a thread. Please be Town.

I am fully caught up and will be assembling a much longer reads post over the next few hours.

I am absolutely delighted that in the last half day or so, the pace has slowed down to where I can actively stay abreast of new developments. I had a very busy day today, so I wasn't able to post in detail, but I'm putting together a wallpost.

I'm getting cold feet on my read of ABR. I need to ISO dive him a bit to figure out whether my initial SR or recent Townvibes are right.

Don't expect these translations to continue too much longer. I'm mostly doing this to mock the people who are too lazy to read Caesar's eloquent ramblings, and that's likely to get old pretty quickly. Plus writing a post twice is boring and inefficient.

O Great Caesar, it would appear as though your scribes have made a most grave and unfortunate error. As I am sure Your Greatness is aware, MathBlade in fact goes by the gender neutral pronoun of "they", yet it would appear that your scribes have mistaken your royal decree as such to be taken

creative license

with. I trust in thee that this issue shall be resolved through an appropriate punishment.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

(yes I know that was lazy shhhh I'm still trying to do stuff now that nancy's replace in made me wanna play again today)

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Also please explain to me why on earth i would force your hydra dissonance to stop as scum?

What possible reason could scum have to bring more order to this game? Answer me that one question please.

Because say what you will, but titus is gone because I demanded it. The one person hard-defending me at every turn.

This was what caused the unvote, ftr.

But I'm kind of a mess. If you're town then I'm part of the reason Titus replaced out. I don't even know what my reads are anymore.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Senpai, check out the reason maxous and elbirn used to vote me.

I think that maxous is definately a high likely scum candidate, abd elbirn is just grasping at straws here as well. Thoughts?

It looks like Maxous is compromising on you because of not getting his first preferences? Jump on about it seems like he was trying to justify jumping on instead of stating that was what it was though, idunno. I don't like the way he jumped on your wagon. I can't remember exactly how beeboy happened but I feel like that was more you trying to push ABR and then ABR compromise voting? I feel like you had less to do with that then others. I'll go back and read that again tomorrow to try and get back into this game and get a more solid opinion on that. Sorry for being so unmotivated.

Elbirn is doing the same thing as you were doing tying me to other people then voting the other person instead of, y'know, voting me. Didn't like it when you do it, don't like it with Elbirn doing it. I thought his blow up at Alisae was townie on tone though and thought he was probably just shit tier tbh.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Actually if you can link me something I can try to look into it more.

VOTE: Caesar

@Caesar what has Vecna done that has been disloyal? Can you point the rest of us to the scrolls you believe hold the incriminating evidence?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Senator Senpai, we have explained Our Reasoning in Our initial missive condemning the traitor Vecna. However, We shall grant your request, despite the impertinent manner of your plea.

Vecna, once a Senator, a respected member of this conclave, has used his exalted position to manipulate the destiny of Imperial Rome to his own advantage. We find that, in the first session of the Senate, he attempted to emerge as a leading voice in this body, directing the Senate where he wished. While it is fair to say that others misattribute the final push to condemn the belated Senator Beeboy to Vecna, and that that crime belongs to others, such a final push would not have been possible without ample groundwork being laid by the heathen Vecna. To disavow himself of the sad result is dishonest and utterly unrealistic, an abdication of his responsibility for this tragedy.

Further, we find the apostate Vecna's agenda to be wholly self-serving. He has repeatedly, on occasions too numerous to recount in a cogent fashion, demonstrated concern for himself over the welfare of the Roman people. We regard with disgust his propensity to counter-attack those who criticize him, seemingly without regard for the facts of the case. He has consistently reacted to judicious suspicion of his person with outrage and over-the-top false rage at his detractors.

Finally, we point to his recent antics, in which he flails about and lashes out at anyone in reach to blame his woes upon. He appeals writ large to the emotions of other Senators, attempting to sway them not with logic but with crocodile tears. We find the act of casting a vote against himself contemptible, and his quick removal of said vote cringe-worthy.

We command all loyal Senators to consider Our words and vote in accordance with your duty to Rome and your Emperor.

Augustus Caesar

Spoiler: A translator for the weak of mind

The case against Vecna is very simple. He has been manipulative and self-serving, and has tried to disavow himself of the beeboy wagon that he drove. Yes, he moved on to ABR at the end of the day, but I interpret that to be an attempt to distance himself from an impending mislynch. It remains to be seen whether he was pushing a second mislynch in ABR or soft-bussing. I suspect the latter, supported by the fact that his overenthusiastic rage for ABR at the end of D1 (remember when he declared a gladiator against ABR, and vetoed any votes not for ABR?) has evaporated into a haze of OMGUS against anyone who dares oppose him. Who's the new target? Maxous? Please. And holy AtE, Batman. It's so blatant and consistent that it can't be anything but intentional. Did you see that self-vote?

Scum.

O Glorious Caesar, Great Emperor of Rome and most noble of pushers. I hereby rescind my vote for you, as it was designed to probe your intentions towards Senator Vecna rather than condemn your majesty.

UNVOTE:

Senator NoticeMeSenpai apologizes for the impertinent manner of our request. We merely believe that Senator Vecna has indeed attempted a great service towards Senator The DEO, and therefore towards Imperial Rome, through attempting to ease the infighting. While We do not believe that your push has ill intent, We did feel that additional reasoning was required in order for Us to make that decision as We have been doubting Our reads as of late. We cannot in good faith follow your missive at this point in time, as Senator Vecna has done something We just cannot see coming from one who is disloyal to the Senate.

I greatly fear, O Caesar, that Senator Vecna's impertinence and attitude towards you has caused a rift which creates the false impression of barbarity and disloyalty between you. In other words, I find you both to be loyal to the Empire, and worry that your dispute benefits only the Barbarians at the gate. I ask that you both put up your swords, and hear my compromise.

We beg thee to take a second look through the scrolls that hold Maxous' contributions to the Senate. At first voting a proposal that could very well allow those exhibiting disloyal tendencies to better control the vote count of Our fine Democracy (of which you rightfully should hold all votes, Your Greatness, and yet you kindly allow those lower than you to partake in such affairs). Scroll #423 in particular comes across as barbaric and lazy, both traits of which I believe we can agree hold no place in our Great Empire. #474 after not presenting any arguments as to how Arts would further progress for the Senate rather than potentially impede us merely feels like an easy way to jump on the None wagon.

This is just the beginning of Maxous' scrolls in isolation, and already We feel great concern for as to where his loyalties lie. #564 feels disingenuous as Senator Spiffeh's fear appeared to be very much real during the Resolution voting, and indeed other loyal Senators had backed that our poor Senator Spiffeh was traumatized by an event in the past. In #643 Senator Maxous backtracks on the Senator Yuri read as a joke, and yet provides no alternative reasoning for continuing the read as it was prior stated. #681 is a misrep of the good Senator Spiffeh in that he was merely questioning Senator Titus' motivations for pushing the Science resolution while not addressing his concerns, as she was also involved in the past traumatic battle of PyP.

VOTE: Maxous

[NoticeMeSenpai]

D: NO I GOT PRODDED. Sorry Nahds I should have declared V/LA for the weekend.

I just skipped a bunch of pages. I want to make my case but now is not the time. I'm kind of exhausted. I'll work on it a bit tonight but for now...

@Math can you point me to where Titus had the impression I was buddying you? I was more paranoid of the fact that I was agreeing with you a lot early on considering what happened in Shadowrun, and your townread of me, so I'm confused as fuck on that theory lol.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Stream of consciousness posting is town from Creature.

@Math did you miss my question?

~Jae

[NoticeMeSenpai]

D: NO I GOT PRODDED. Sorry Nahds I should have declared V/LA for the weekend.

I just skipped a bunch of pages. I want to make my case but now is not the time. I'm kind of exhausted. I'll work on it a bit tonight but for now...

@Math can you point me to where Titus had the impression I was buddying you? I was more paranoid of the fact that I was agreeing with you a lot early on considering what happened in Shadowrun, and your townread of me, so I'm confused as fuck on that theory lol.

Ugh mainly we talked about reads on Skype and PT :/ Sorry.

Eh it's fine.

So I don't think I can push my case today tbh. Mainly due to RL stuff since I'm out of town.

@Vecna I don't like the way Maxous interacted with your wagon after everything that's gone down tbh, I can't actually push it today though due to circumstances that came up, is there any chance of looking more at him today?

@Mod Soft V/LA til the 28th, will still try to post when I can but am out of town for Melbmeet.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Yeah I still don't think ABR is scum.

@ABR - Why the statue? It's kinda a purely defensive wonder instead of something more aggressive I'd expect of you.

If you want to not be the lynch, give me something other than digging your heels in, please?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

PV getting Pyramids means PV probably scum but why would scum shoot themselves?

To avoid being investigated would be the obvious answer.

That said, PV's early content looked good enough to me that I dunno. There's town motivation in not claiming it as well, just woulda been nice to have a conftown treestump.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Brain hammering is NAI me. He obviously hammered because me and nancy played Hangman for 2 pages.

+1

Don't like people trying to make more out of that than it obviously was.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Okay, do you think JaeReed is posting frequently enough? I'm still missing this hydra from discussion.

I'm on V/LA for melbmeet, but been kinda disconnected since I realized vecna is likely just town.

idk, I've lurked at Mini 1849 too, I don't lurk only as scum. It's just disinterest.

^ Something like this, Creature. I fell off in activity in Shadowrun too when I didn't have a clear direction I was having good feelings about to take. Also in Banana Split, and I was out of it due to rl busy stuff in the beginning of Typhon too. Been a mix of RL and not having confidence in my scumreads.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Then Caesar remains unconvinced, though He acknowledges that a traitor would almost certainly have taken such an opportunity to try gaining Our confidence.

I don't think Alibae is a traitor to the state. I am willing to stake my own reputation on this. I don't think I've read Alibae wrong to date and something very important has been brought to my attention that gives me no reason to doubt my hard townread.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

.....Excuse me while I go buy Civ VI.

DAMN YOU ELBIRRRRNNNNNNN (also where did your scumread on me go, broski? Your stubbornly shit read on me is why I think you're prob not scum, don't make me paranoid plz)

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Please tell me that Brian's vote is a hammer.

It is! Life is good.

Spoiler: Brian's read progression on ABR

ABR is always manipulative. It's one of his more endearing traits.

Hmmm those colours didnt quite come out the way they looked on the coloured palet.

ABR is my top priority lynch. Followed by Davesaz and Elbirn.

And then followed by Kyouko/Ceasar at a bit of a distance.

VOTE: Albert B Rampage

Is there a reason you want him lynched other than him being disruptive to the gamestate? I see a lot of people stating they want him dead, but not for anything that makes me believe they think he's scum.

Also, if it lands on scum, who cares if the Caesar wagon is a poor information lynch?

VOTE: Creature

I've fallen behind. But I do think Vecna was town flailing in response to the pressure of his wagon. I didn't like Creature saying he liked the Kyouko wagon and then jumping to Vecna before it could materialize. I also didn't like him asking who should volunteer to be lynched in the event Vecna flipped scum.

I don't know why people are townreading Uzi. A lot of his comments surrounding setup speculation is scummy. He says most of the abilities are bad and that town shouldn't invest in them, which could be scum hoping to skate by with for a few nights with relatively powerless town while scum get a better shot at getting the more concerning roles. He also had a crumb as early as page 25, so I feel the whole argument of ABR pushing a scumread on him for faking a claim to be either insincere or misguided. I thought maybe Vecna was a partner, but I can kind of see a townie just wanting to hold onto a shitty meta read.

I think A+N is town. I like most of their early posting and don't understand why people scumread them. I also have a townread on Yuri.

I'm busy today, but will return later tonight.

VOTE: Albert

@Brian Skies:

Why did you hammer ABR?

Leon, talk to me about this? The relief over the hammer to stop the shitposting to blaming Brian for the lynch seems disingenuous.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

The Vecna push looked bad to me actually. There are a few weird things that happen around the time Yuri is at L-1 that make me nervous and Notice going off on Vecna was one of them. I didn't like the way they did it, doesn't add up to me, and I didn't like the timing of it.

Since you mention timing... Did you think to check the dates for like the 30 pages preceding it, and compare the times to Australian while taking into account how long it takes me to read? You weren't here for the shitshow that D1 was. People were posting something like 80 posts a day, most of which happened while I was asleep and reading up. I had a scumread, I pushed it when I could. The thread was literally draining to me at that point because of the sheer volume people were pushing out. Did you think the push on Vecna had no basis? Do you think I didn't believe in my push?

And I'm not going to obvtown for you, but I

can

tell you that I'm perfectly capable of obvtowning as scum. It's not actually a skill I only have as town. Yuri's seen me do it decently enough, in fact. And the game I got replaced from that I showed you had the dead thread surprised that I was scum. Hell, Wisdom praised me for not being on his radar despite pushing on him. I'm pretty sure there are town games where I took my sweet time in doing so as well. In fact, I don't think I would have pulled off not being lynched at all in Undertale if Math didn't clear me because I misunderstood what Neapolitan does and was so afraid of getting mislynched that I fought being checked as the sole VT in the game.

You're mistaking my lost play for not obvtowning and then you're confbiasing on that. Don't. Because people assuming they know my meta off a small sample size when they haven't seen me play aggressive/laidback/disinterested/rl busy pisses me off. And Alisae can attest to that. You don't want the level of vitriol that I can spout if you push me to do what you want me to do rather than to play how I feel like playing this game.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Scum can and do push counterwagons when Town slots they don't want to get lynched are threatened, or for pure WIFOM purposes.

sure but he could have used that himself instead of having you defending him and the inverse of that is that his he's scum that trying to misdirect our attention from lynching off the ABR wagon to ignoring the players that mislynched ABR. Why is my paranoia not justified?

You realize nancy is trying to tell vecna his reasons for townreading me aren't justified, right? nancy isn't defending anything.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

@Notice your first push on Vecna doesn't look very believable, no, and your later push on the slot comes across to me as mostly picking at personality. If you want to provide me with meta showing this isn't the case, I'm all ears, but until then I don't really see anti-town as scum and I think you're ignoring the positives from the slot, where he's been hunting and gamesolving. I appreciate your difficulty keeping up with the thread but I also know that you're a careful enough of a player to look at VCs before you vote anywhere, and my point about the timing of your push on Vecna stands. Yuri is at L-1 and you push Vecna in what strikes me as a half-hearted manner. I believe town!Notice would feel far more responsibility to their Town than to potentially muddy the waters in this way without a very strong SR, regardless of how lost they were. If this is me not knowing your meta, I'll leave it up to other slots to show me where I've gone astray.

You've also taken my comment about you not obvtowning out of context. That isn't a reason why I'm SRing you, but it is a reason why I don't see the TRs on you.

No I took it at face value actually, because that's what it seemed to imply. In any case I think you should fact check on most of what you've been saying here because it is demonstrably false.

I wasn't pushing him for being anti-town and I think if you were actually reading my posts you would have known that. I was pushing him because he was doing shit I thought was scummy and he was my strongest scumread at the time.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

You're supposed to color them, love. <3

[NoticeMeSenpai]

hello hello, both alisae and kyouko comin in w the mocking responses to SRs how thrilling
jaereed just to confirm, u know my main? you said i had meta on u (which i can confirm). pls dont announce it just lemme know if thats what you meant by it

Confirming that I know your main.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Maxous I know you're Town, why don't you want to join on Creature?

Talk to me about this, babe?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Here we go again.
VOTE: Creature
nancy weren't you SRing Kyouko?

Yeah that was before I did VCA.

Talk to me about your vca? What are you looking for in it? Because I get the feeling you really don't know how to do it even more than I do.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

hello hello, both alisae and kyouko comin in w the mocking responses to SRs how thrilling
jaereed just to confirm, u know my main? you said i had meta on u (which i can confirm). pls dont announce it just lemme know if thats what you meant by it

Confirming that I know your main.

Confirming that I want you to start doing stuff this game, or my death tunnel is gonna return.

You realize I'm still fucking V/LA until like tomorrow right? I've been

out of town and busy

. So yeah, stop being an asshole at every fucking turn, thanks.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I mean I announced it a while back, and Math has also brought it up I think more than once. It's a bit hard to miss. + maybe it's just your avatar but I just.. idunno man your attitude seems to be at odds with mine, or playstyle or w/e and I think that's part of why I scumread you at the start. but no matter how hard I try I can't see a scum motivation in what you did with Titus by pushing out your main supporter from the hydra and believe me I wish I could because it fucked all my fucking reads.

I'll probably do something tomorrow. Like even if you tunnel me I'm not that worried tbh because I'm pretty confident in my ability to obvtown as town. Scum have to practically scumclaim to push me and RC isn't in this game which is probably the only person I think as scum could weasel his fucking way out of a mislynch on me. I've been mislynched twice exactly and I don't plan for that number to go any higher. So if you have a problem suck it up because I'm not gonna get lynched this game.

pedit: Drixx. I don't think Drixx comes in and hard buddies Titus like that as scum. It's suicide. It's fucking insane to do as scum if titus is town. Brian is an EMer and they have an inherently scummy on the surface playstyle in my experience.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Also Kyouko isn't scum. That wallpost spec and CC spec is town!Kyouko from my experience. I've read a few games he was town in and modded one he was town in and that's much the same shit. I think he needs to chill on that kind of spec til he has more experience but it's a towntell for him as far as I can tell.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

However Creature is probably scum so that makes me want to wagon Senpai less.

Blah Creature and Senpai is a 1v1 IMHO

Stop. Creature is town.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I will give you that "meta rubbish" because it's not rubbish. Stop pretending like you know better than vets who are fucking used to reading Creature, thanks. I've been through his ISO and compared him to the two times I've known him to be scum (once in a game I was in where it was multiball and another time in a newbie I spectated from start to finish) and this just plain isn't scum!Creature. He's active, stream of consciousness posting, he's confident in his townieness (pay attention, this is an ego tell for him and a fairly strong one), and he's not just taking the easy way out in all of his reads by reading the obvtowns as town and the lynchbaits as scum.

He's.town. You need to learn when the fuck to swallow your own ego and accept some people actually DO know how to read others a little better than you.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

This is Creature's scum game. Then take a look at this for a scum game where he stuck around.

There's a reason a handful of us are defending him. The confidence in his townieness is especially a point that I want noted.

Creature isn't just taking the easy road on the reads or he'd have LUV as lynchable. He doesn't. This is his usual PoE based on who he's townreading. What is it you like to say? You're scumreading someone because they have a playstyle you don't like. You're refusing to acknowledge that other people may just have a point when they say he's not scum and provide you with reasons based off experience with the player. That, my love, is a sign of a tunnel.

Like, you can ignore me on Maxous all you like. You can wagon Kyouko because he does need to post more and pressure might help with that. You can wagon me. You will

not

be mislynching Creature this game. Because I will literally vote anyone that's not a townread that I think can get traction to derail this shit.

VOTE: Maxous
Stand by for more on this, but add his attempts to buddy/defend me to the record of things from him that make me uncomfortable.

Creature just is not scum. LUV is not scum. The current leading wagons are fucking trash.

pedit: you definitely do, babe. It's fine tho since I do too

[NoticeMeSenpai]

@LUV depending on the mod you can ask for a PT to put thoughts in that you don't want in the main thread yet. I've done it before in House of Harmony, as an example. I've also just sent the mod like 50 million PMs with the thoughts I have on stuff (Maria probs remembers me doing this for a game she modded). It's sometimes easier than having 50 million notepad files saved on your computer or like 10 pages per game of handwritten notes.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

nancy, I'm going to give you 2 more recent games to go meta Elbrin with, because last time I checked Elbrin hasn't played since bloodborne and honestly the way I see it, more recent meta is better, right?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69654
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=69290 (Oh god it's my first game on site how embarassing)

So he's not as strong in these games as in his old games. (I didn't read your ISO don't worry.) I'm waffling. On the one hand his content this game has largely been subpar but on the other hand this game is kind of broken by how bloated it is.

Like this is kind of a fair assessment if you give him the benefit of the doubt:

If you'll look back in my iso you'll see me literally drowning in spam and nonsense trying in vain to get a word in edgewise

Brian where you at with reads?

nancy what do you think of 5885 followed by 6679?
Also what do you think of 3582

I TRed him for the first one, but in retrospect given that that was basically the biggest burst of content from him and it was defense I'm not inclined to love it. The second one is mostly NAI. I like the third one but it's ultimately NAI because scum!Elbirn could say that knowing it'd have no effect. I can't blame him for not doing more to pull Titus out of it.

I mean a lot of us were feeling that way wrt the sentiment in 5999 that you quoted.

That said his tunnel on me is still as crap here as it was in the newbie where he literally only admitted I might be town because I kept trying to work with him after he'd been lynched despite him also not really giving me anything useful there. I just don't have the patience to work through his crap every game apparently.

As far as the thing about pulling Titus out of it... You have vecna as a scumread. Did you think at all about the point I raised that he literally shot himself in the foot by trying to convince Titus to replace out so the hydra dissonance and issues with ABR stopped destroying town? Since you seem to imply here that a townish thing would be to try to stop that.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Elbirn is an emotional player who doesn't give many fucks and hunts with his nose. He plays loose and hot but he's capable of restraint when he wants it and he gets through games by being just on point enough to irritate scum without being enough of a threat to be nked. Creature is lazy but he's sharp and his sense of humor comes alive when people don't see eye to eye with him.

This sounds like a dating game show now

[NoticeMeSenpai]

As far as the thing about pulling Titus out of it... You have vecna as a scumread. Did you think at all about the point I raised that he literally shot himself in the foot by trying to convince Titus to replace out so the hydra dissonance and issues with ABR stopped destroying town? Since you seem to imply here that a townish thing would be to try to stop that.

The points you raised were good and I was only pushing you on them before because I was trying to buddy up with him/scum to avoid nightkills. Yes it's obviously highly Town-motivated to stop a spat like that.

In which case you're likely wrong on your Vecna scumread. Unless you can see scum motivation for alienating his biggest ally in this game to the point where it culminated in the person scumreading him only being left in the slot. Because as much as I'd

like

to given his playstyle grates on me, I've come to accept that I just can't see him as scum given that, and my issues with him are likely just playstyle/personality related.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

FTR davesaz I'm willing to bet my game life that Aslan is Town here.

Echo

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Elbirn is an emotional player who doesn't give many fucks and hunts with his nose. He plays loose and hot but he's capable of restraint when he wants it and he gets through games by being just on point enough to irritate scum without being enough of a threat to be nked. Creature is lazy but he's sharp and his sense of humor comes alive when people don't see eye to eye with him.

This sounds like a dating game show now

Just don't let me give an assessment of you..

Please do

[NoticeMeSenpai]

*they

And it's not hard to believe if you know anything about Math at all. It would be more suspicious if they were absolutely fine with how things had played out so far.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

@nancy I don't particularly want to make the strength of my reads known at this point in time.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Great few posts here, you were right when u said that you can be obvtown when you want to.

Talk to me about the sondam slot.

Actually wasn't focusing on obvtowning there, just wanted the bad wagons gone. I don't really know how I obvtown, but yeah scum will have to out their team to get me lynched. It's my one source of pride as town that I've only been mislynched twice, and both times were as a newbie, once with 4/6 scum on my wagon, and the other with scum!RC hard tunneling me.

Neither head of Sondam has dropped the scumtell I have on them. It's not impossible for them to be playing a coasting scumgame but they both like scum way more than town so I doubt it, and I actually expect both of them to tryhard as scum which doesn't appear to be the case here. I've been wrong on that kind of read before though (specifically on Nahdia) so take it with a grain of salt.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

This is Creature's scum game. Then take a look at this for a scum game where he stuck around.

There's a reason a handful of us are defending him. The confidence in his townieness is especially a point that I want noted.

Creature isn't just taking the easy road on the reads or he'd have LUV as lynchable. He doesn't. This is his usual PoE based on who he's townreading. What is it you like to say? You're scumreading someone because they have a playstyle you don't like. You're refusing to acknowledge that other people may just have a point when they say he's not scum and provide you with reasons based off experience with the player. That, my love, is a sign of a tunnel.

Like, you can ignore me on Maxous all you like. You can wagon Kyouko because he does need to post more and pressure might help with that. You can wagon me. You will

not

be mislynching Creature this game. Because I will literally vote anyone that's not a townread that I think can get traction to derail this shit.

VOTE: Maxous
Stand by for more on this, but add his attempts to buddy/defend me to the record of things from him that make me uncomfortable.

Creature just is not scum. LUV is not scum. The current leading wagons are fucking trash.

pedit: you definitely do, babe. It's fine tho since I do too

Oh btw people, DO DISREGARD THESE LINKS.

They're outdated and no longer reflect creatures new scumplay. this was already brought up.

He upgraded his scumplay in the last few months which will be evident if you look at his newer scumgames.

Im not sure what allignment creature is this game. I think hes town but am still not completely 100%;locked on this fact.

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67827&user_select%5B%5D=27374

So I entertained this a little and went looking for a more recent scum game. Wake's massive role madness still fits everything I said.

He has made an effort to improve his scumplay but he's not there yet. It's just not as easy as you seem to think it is.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

nancy, I'm going to give you 2 more recent games to go meta Elbrin with, because last time I checked Elbrin hasn't played since bloodborne and honestly the way I see it, more recent meta is better, right?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69654
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=69290 (Oh god it's my first game on site how embarassing)

Hmmmmm, the most important tbing in this is actually the meta on jaereed. Hia townplay in one of those links is completely completely different from what were seeing this game.

How come you havent talked about that at all ali?

NoticeMeSenpai might be pulling off a masterclass level acumgame here btw.

Id like some comments from other about his tone thia game. I read a binch of games where hes the goofy friendly likeable sounding guy.

Here its mostly semi-cocky, authoritative and very certain about everything. There does t appear to be any doubt.

Im moving the slot out of my townlocks again due to the meta threads i read from jeareed. Maybe this mastina is getting involved after all and is helping the slot pull a nice blanket over our eyes.

Also the thing they say that our playstyles bounce hard is strange. Since id say their tone this game is rather similair to my style.

Id like some other opinions on this matter, especially from those having played with the slot before.

Ali hasn't had an issue with this because 1) Alibae has hydra'd with me before where people have pulled this line of reasoning, and we were town. 2) Alibae knows how much this line of reasoning pisses me off when people don't have a full idea of my meta. 3) Alibae knows for a fact I have a wider range as town than the handful of games he has seen me in.

You're comparing a newbie game where I was thinking that I wanted to be looking at IC'ing soonish. I try to be gentler on newbs. You'll also note somewhere in that game I basically told Tywin to fuck off because I hit the end of my patience despite it being a newbie game, and he almost replaced out because of it. I'm definitely not likeable lol.

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=70181 Here, I was Chihiro head. Cocky and aggressive. I flipped my shit because people kept on this stupid ass meta shit without knowing my full range.
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=68000 A game where I got disconnected partway through.
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=67472 Another game where I was cocky.

And nope, I hate egotistical aggressive playstyles, they grate on me. I'm fully aware that I'm that way, but that doesn't mean I like the playstyle any more just because I tend towards it lately.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Going to bed good night

wait are you still here?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Math I think we need to touch base when we can. I had a craving for cinnamon rolls last night :c I blame mastina. Checked in with Levi due to experience.

Thoughts?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

So Mastina is helping you after all?

She hasn't posted in here if that's what you're asking.

If you're asking if she's teaching me stuff and providing guidance behind the scenes as per the whole point of the hydra, then yes, when she can she does so. Her latest was a teaching on the theory behind how she does VCA. What's the point of this question?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

The game I based that post on finished in november. And the three links you just posted actually show the same pattern to me. Your play this game -is- different in tone from the last link where you claim to be cocky.

Not saying just yet that it nails you to the wall as scum, but ill be keeping my eye on you again.

The game you based that post on was a newbie where I was thinking about IC'ing. And those three games absolutely do not show the same pattern to that newbie Ali linked. Did you even read my ISO in those games? Because I'm pretty sure based on that response that you didn't. Especially considering the last game shouldn't be like the others because I was playing like someone else, and people in the game even commented on that.

So no, likeable/goofy and friendly like you're describing is not my usual town play. My usual town play varies depending on how I feel like approaching the game.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

VOTE: Yuri
Hi.
You're getting wagoned.
It would be really cool if you could be relevant now.
So like, you should give me your reads, and explain them. Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaay?
Yay, hopefully you'll do that

No seriously.
Look how easily he flakes when Nancy stops pushing my wagon

Math this shade throw on Alisae for pressuring other people doesn't come from town. Like this is just pure discredit mode.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Then let's sync up.
Talk with me about Vecna and Yuri.
And why do you read them the way you do?

I've talked about Vecna.
He pushed Titus to leave the game when she was one of his hard defenders (like if you'll remember she threatened me with a policy lynch when I first pushed him). It's something that he stood to gain very little from, because the potential town cred from that has to be pointed out by someone else for him to get anything out of it for one, and he got rid of his strongest supporter to be left with someone in the slot that he knew was scumreading him for another. Then you have the fact that the infighting in the hydra was clogging up the game and making for an environment where people really didn't want to be around/read so he could have more easily manipulated the lynches to where he wanted as scum because of it.
Like, there are points for doubt but they're not points I'm going to bring up in the main thread unless I decide it outweighs the fact that he would have to be shooting himself in the foot with how he tried to fix the hydra dissonance in your slot. It's not a smart move for scum at all.

Yuri is a bit of wagonomics and a bit of experience with the main. I'm not going to out who it is but the weird defending thing and such is not unusual given who it is. The wagonomics I need to double check on though because I think I misremembered it. D1 felt like a consensus wagon with no real counter though, and when the counter DID come about we know it was mainly ABR that pushed it yeah? Which means it wasn't a scum motivated counter. I do need to double check that but it's where I'm at with my thoughts currently.

um...did I do ok with the attempt btw or not really?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

nancy, honestly, if you're not going to read my posts then don't bother talking to me.

Math was asking why I wasn't scumreading either of them.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I'm quite aware of that. And I know what you look like when you defend a read you believe is true.

town!Notice: It's pretty obvious the Yuri wagon was like all town on town by the way it was built and then how it fell off.

scum!Notice: If I remember rightly I think that the Yuri wagon was town by the way it happened, I'd have to go back and check, I know their main as well so that helps and stuff

This proves you don't know what I look like when I'm unsure on a read but think it's more likely town than not.

There's shit happening that you don't know about. My waffling on Yuri is coming from the fact that I remembered there being no counter. I recently colored the VCs for myself and realized I was wrong on that, but I haven't had the time to look through them yet.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Unless you're going to call beeboy a counter there was no counter. And Yuri, ABR, and I were pushing it. But let's not do this while you're not feeling well.

Alisae was a counter to Yuri at one point which I'd forgotten. Yuri was more like a counter to beeboy I think? Then people went back to beeboy?

I didn't really want to go looking at the VCs right now which is why you ended up with the answer you had. But since you seem to want to waste my time on that instead of catching up and pushing my wagon... Those were what I was seeing. As well as at one point Caesar briefly ending up competing there. But yeah my memory on it being a consensus wagon without a counter wasn't faulty, just focused more on when Yuri was over like 5 votes. I doubted it because while I was coloring the VCs I saw town counters.

In any case I did say I think Yuri is more likely town than not and explained that to Math. You're nitpicking and it's annoying because it's forcing my focus to be elsewhere instead of where I need it today.

And I hardly ever feel well, so there's not so much point in saying that, babe.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Nope. Sorry hun.

Alright, then tell me what you want. Because afaik you're scumreading me for refusing to give the strength of my reads in the main thread? Which is silly if you would actually think about why I would do that for two seconds instead of getting indignant that I'm resisting you on that.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Anyone on the Sondam wagon, why is Sondam scum? I don't have a good read on the slot and I don't have a good metaread on MariaR. Treat me like I'm 5, please.

Anyone off the Sondam wagon, why is Sondam Town? Same as above.

Meta read. Both heads prefer playing scum.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Look after yourself, Elb. <3

Alisae, did you see that

it was in its natural habitat

LOL

Nero/Vecna/Yuri -- Alisae thoughts? Senpai thoughts? Oh and here is a sugary snack for the both of you because you are nice.

Gave Vecna and Yuri thoughts.

Nero I don't have a confident read on. His push on you is really bad to the point where I don't believe it's just badtown instead of scum. I'd still prefer Maxous, though. I don't get the townreads on him at all and the passive play while complaining his scumreads aren't getting lynched doesn't sit well. He did the same thing with the Art resolution before using it as an excuse to vote none. He's not pushing his reads at all so the complaining that people aren't following them doesn't feel genuine.

Yay sugary snack! <3 Thankies!

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Lets not forget the important detail of notice and sondam not caring to be on any real wagon both days shall we?

Pretty sure the beeboy lynch was hammered while I slept? Or at least while I was catching up still from having slept. Also since I feel like this is the first time anyone has actually said anything that lines up with decent VCA theory I feel like I should say well done despite the implied conclusion being wrong.

Jae: I think they are town, although those DDD defense posts combined with the long inactive period weirded me out. Don't scum-read them for not voting anyone for a long time as that is a bad tendency they have but not scum indicative in their case.

I've been told I tend to have a sticky vote. Regardless, I wasn't going to lynch anyone I didn't scumread when I had an actual scumread. This is true for both days.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

ABR, you want to do the honors and shoot me?

I don't vig townreads.

Yeah, you've lynched me before. You don't want this gamestate resolved. Just vig us.

I am literally asking you to silence us. All you have to do is do it. You think I am antitown and suck anyway, so what's your problem? Want a punching bag?

I told you what I want. Your slot is obvtown and Mathblade is a good player. Not only good but influential and can bring together a coallition. You don't have that ability because you're too volatile and stubborn.

Honestly I scumread pretty much all the active players.

I can't even get Titus to keep the vote on you because "town" has decided Caesar.

I scumread you and any time I pressure anyone I am told I am not allowed to.

~~Math

At this point I am going to not post and let people talk with Titus.

We are Stonehenge. Meh :/

Math is letting me claim. She doesn't quite get this. We have a plan. We die tonight unless scum have a doctor. Every vig shot option presented one of us townreads and we cannot get the vig to shoot ABR (and I am not sure he's scum rather than just Anti-Titus).

Our hydra has zero chance of reconciling with ABR playing Math's emotions like he is. I am sure Math has another reason for this, but it's irrelevant. We die in order to leave the rest of you in a better state for solving the game.

If a town was getting vigged anyway, might as well clear up some issues regarding the gamestate and remove a conflicting voice. We have our target in mind and are not taking submissions.

Now, normally I would take submissions, but the town is too fractured to expect a scum bus. The possibility of a flip beyond their control may fracture the scumteam.

Caesar or ABR. Git her done.

~Titus

Like 30 posts before, even less if you found that in ISO.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

If your name is Alisae, mastina, Pine or Nero(or the female version Nancy), melt my heart and give me a 20 page MLA report on what's happened this game while I do my read >_>

Sorry, mastina isn't actually playing, she's just teaching me things while I play. So all the posting is from Jae. Nice to meet you though!

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Or townVig who thought PV scum.

Wouldn't a town vig claim the kill if they shot PV?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

MASTINA WHAT THE FUCK

GET YOUR ASS IN THE THREAD AND SAY HI TO ME

NO SHE IS ALL MINE!!!! >=(

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Gin your predecessor claimed to have built Great Lighthouse which if true sadly means you can't build anything else. Can you confirm?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

>.< Well that was a crappy test. Wonders are basically our power roles, Gin. Just we draft them during the game instead of having them from the start.

To expand on what Alibae gave you:
PeregrineV is Pyramids and treestumped.
MathBlade claimed Stonehenge and also to know the owner of Halicarnassus.
ABR flipped Statue of Zeus.

D1 No Resolution passed.
D2 Natural Resolution passed.
D3 Nay on Standing Army Tax passed.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

We will give your suggestion some thought. There are entirely too many nuances to the question to answer immediately. We shall review Our long-standing positions in light of this new perspective.

While doing so please take another look at the way Maxous was interacting with Vecna yesterday. 5957, 6022, 6119, 6130, then following that hopping off onto Kyouko once two extra votes on Vecna had been placed. In a town!Vecna world it looks a lot like he didn't want to be on the lynch wagon of an innocent, but wanted to be sure it looked like it had the momentum to go through in order to garner more support.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Reed why are you ignoring my vote?

Why do you expect him to react to it?

Why wouldnt i ? it was a naked vote and from an analysis of someone else, he posted like 10 posts after it and disregarded me completly

I mean this is a good reason to not expect any reaction tbh. Honestly figured it was just essentially a "fuck you for vigging me in HoH" vote.

Like, my care factor about you obv RVS'ing because you replaced in and didn't wanna backread is less than zero because I figure if town you'll work out I'm town on your own like you have done before.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

@Nero, if Math needs to be shot, let them get shot >_>

If the PR works only by being shot, you literally negate the PR by lynching them

ok this is town

[NoticeMeSenpai]

yo Cloudie my man, if you find my non-reaction to your RVS vote to be a scumtell then you should be voting Maxous. I even gave reasons I think he's scum and he still hasn't reacted to my vote despite apparently thinking I'm town. He did take the time to shade Alisae though... so ignored me but not someone else voting him. Maxous is scum.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Oh hi Gin.

I normally wouldn't be posting, but for you, I'll make a special exception. <3

This is me in a teaching role, so I'm not really playing, but if you want me to give you a lesson in-thread, you can ask for one and I'll do my best to give one to you! I suppose I could also trade banter with you if you'd like, but I can't DIRECTLY intervene play-wise. This is Jae's game, I'm just here along for the ride. <3

Buthey. Teaching a game is still me in the game!

[NoticeMeSenpai]

The game I based that post on finished in november. And the three links you just posted actually show the same pattern to me. Your play this game -is- different in tone from the last link where you claim to be cocky.

Not saying just yet that it nails you to the wall as scum, but ill be keeping my eye on you again.

The game you based that post on was a newbie where I was thinking about IC'ing. And those three games absolutely do not show the same pattern to that newbie Ali linked. Did you even read my ISO in those games? Because I'm pretty sure based on that response that you didn't. Especially considering the last game shouldn't be like the others because I was playing like someone else, and people in the game even commented on that.

So no, likeable/goofy and friendly like you're describing is not my usual town play. My usual town play varies depending on how I feel like approaching the game.

The initial post contained two games, also a recent one. And i did read throigh your iso in several games. The fact your fighting me on this is maybe not that odd if it doesnt match the way you view your own play, but im noting it and ill keep it in mind - and like i said ill remain suspicious from now on and youre under my hourglass

The initial post from Alisae contained two games. One game of which I was not in at all. Considering we're talking about my meta, the only game I commented on was that. This is just further cementing my opinion that you're not actually reading my ISO in those games. Why?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

hm okay but this isnt my read VOTE: ceasar

VOTE: cloudkicker

Oh look, he's as scummy as his predecessor.
This vote is not coming off.

Oh look, an easy vote on lynchbait for sheeping when that's playstyle indicative more than being AI.

@nancy how the

absolute fuck

do you see this as town?!?!

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Then let's sync up.
Talk with me about Vecna and Yuri.
And why do you read them the way you do?

I've talked about Vecna.
He pushed Titus to leave the game when she was one of his hard defenders (like if you'll remember she threatened me with a policy lynch when I first pushed him). It's something that he stood to gain very little from, because the potential town cred from that has to be pointed out by someone else for him to get anything out of it for one, and he got rid of his strongest supporter to be left with someone in the slot that he knew was scumreading him for another. Then you have the fact that the infighting in the hydra was clogging up the game and making for an environment where people really didn't want to be around/read so he could have more easily manipulated the lynches to where he wanted as scum because of it.
Like, there are points for doubt but they're not points I'm going to bring up in the main thread unless I decide it outweighs the fact that he would have to be shooting himself in the foot with how he tried to fix the hydra dissonance in your slot. It's not a smart move for scum at all.

Yuri is a bit of wagonomics and a bit of experience with the main. I'm not going to out who it is but the weird defending thing and such is not unusual given who it is. The wagonomics I need to double check on though because I think I misremembered it. D1 felt like a consensus wagon with no real counter though, and when the counter DID come about we know it was mainly ABR that pushed it yeah? Which means it wasn't a scum motivated counter. I do need to double check that but it's where I'm at with my thoughts currently.

um...did I do ok with the attempt btw or not really?

Im not sure i completely buy this reason to TR me either. I pushed on the DEO to choose between death/replace out/become a unified front. I had no idea at this point what the outcome would be. Framing it as me willingly getting rid of titus is very much in my favor, but not an accurate portrayal of events.

Im surprised noone actually has brought this up before. At any rate, it had to be done for the good of town and i was in a position to do so.

Let's explore those options then:
Death - Requires Titus and MathBlade to both live in a dysfunctional hydra for the rest of the day phase, continuing to fight and bloat the thread and potentially cause more people to replace out.
Replace Out - Math already said they refused to replace out again, so only Titus would be replacing out in this instance.
Become a Unified Front - This was obviously impossible with the state of things being how they were.

So yes, that is a valid reason to TR you. The only

real

option you gave Titus was to replace out for the good of the town. You can't seriously have not known that's how that would end?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Can people stop misgendering Math? Please and ty.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

@Nero, if Math needs to be shot, let them get shot >_>

If the PR works only by being shot, you literally negate the PR by lynching them

ok this is town

What?! Explain this read, and why that post made you conckude that. Until you do, more scum suspicion for you.

It's not actually a read from that post. I thought Gin was around to react to it in real time but he wasn't.

I'll get back to this when I respond to his post.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

yo Cloudie my man, if you find my non-reaction to your RVS vote to be a scumtell then you should be voting Maxous. I even gave reasons I think he's scum and he still hasn't reacted to my vote despite apparently thinking I'm town. He did take the time to shade Alisae though... so ignored me but not someone else voting him. Maxous is scum.

@Cloudkicker

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I thought Gin was around to react to it in real time but he wasn't.

Correction, he made a lengthyish post within a minute after that comment but then disappeared. Could have been a post-and-run or could have been unsure how to react.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

@Nero, if Math needs to be shot, let them get shot >_>

If the PR works only by being shot, you literally negate the PR by lynching them

ok this is town

Why tho >_>

Wanted to see if you'd try to take the free towncred and coast off it considering Alisae had pointed it out before you. Wasn't sure if you were jumping to expand on that to be LAMIST/buddy up to Ali or if you actually thought it was worth following up on to sort Nero. I'm still not sure on that tbh. I kinda thought I'd get a more conclusive result than what your answer gave me.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I thought about adding NoticeMeSenpai for town for defending me.

However, I'm lacking JaeReed's presence, which is characteristic for scum!Jae. Unless Jae just plays as advicer, this slot is worrying me very much.

You've never played with me as scum.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

We could just all sheep Vecna on Senpai and ignore the scum/bad players like Nancy and Math who'll oppose it.

nancy wasn't opposing it.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

VOTE: maxous nvm

Explain this jump from voting me to voting my scumread?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

And yeah, Aslan's reads are a total joke.

This is without taking into consideration of associations.
Brian, LUV, Nero, BaeReed, Creature
These are my locktowns.

If Aslan is scum half of these probably are too.

nancy is scum.

In no world ever where nancy is town does she entertain the idea of Aslan being scum here.

VOTE: nancy

[NoticeMeSenpai]

The result of which is that I've basically decided that the meta tell I thought I had on them could be flawed and they may actually be scum, and considering that possibility landed me here with reads:

MathBlade

Yuri

Brian Skies

Leonshade

Vecna

davesaz

PeregrineV

Caesar Wills It

CloudKicker

Sondam

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

Maxous

Aslan

Creature

Lil Uzi Vert

NoticeMeSenpai

Nero Cain

I don't buy this for a second.

You wanted to shade me as much as possible so that you could get a mislynch off on me then follow it with Aslan when no one was around to out that you have a hard meta towntell on Aslan that he did this game.

For everyone who is out of the loop: there is a tell that both myself and nancy are aware of that Aslan

only does as town

. Aslan dropped that towntell in this game. In no world where nancy is town does she ever ever

EVER

consider Aslan as scum in this game given that. This is an incredibly weak walk back from that now that she thinks she can mislynch me/that I have no credibility and all will be forgotten for her to go after Aslan without someone around to call out her shit.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Btw Senpai the scumread on Aslan was hypothetical. I was looking at what scum would look like if Aslan were scum.

Why would you need to? There is literally zero point to doing that because Ali is not only town through the tell, but through his actions as well, and the towntell of Yume's. Like, there's no point to looking at a hypothetical scum Aslan as town here because you know he's not scum. There

is

a point to doing it as scum, though, in order to shade the slot and all the associations you can make off it.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

VOTE: Maxous

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Max and Senpai. We are doing Dave. What are your feeling there?

His lurking and focus on rl reasons why fits with scum who knows they're not good at lying. I remember him being kinda a lurksack about a year ago as SK too.

That said, I don't know. I kind of err towards trusting Math's judgement on him, and they say he's town. I'd much prefer Maxous.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

VOTE: nancy

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Cloud what the fuck are your reads I am losing my mind in this game and you're now my only locktown.

im looking at leon/gin/luv
people that im still trying to sort are max/pine and in a lesser extent alibae
my towns are vec, nero and you. Math is a townlean but if im wrong on a townread its prob this one

anything else is null, yuri is town for d1

I'm disturbed by the amount of people who have completely ignored Vecna's claim.

My lockscums are MathBlade and Notice. I'm still SRing Leonshade and LUV. Aslan is like a strong scumlean. My reads on LUV and Aslan are tied together a little, i.e., if one is scum they're both scum. LUV and Math's interactions have seemed vaguely SvS.

Notice and Math have both done things that are like wildly out of character for them, and some subtler things are missing too.

Mathblade is locktown through play.
Alisae is locktown through Yume meta and through his own play not being anything like his scum play, AND through the towntell which Alisae has NEVER ONCE done as scum. While he doesn't

always

do it as town, he has NEVER done it as scum, and that's the important thing. Every single time he has done it he has been town, and you know this.
LUV is town as well.
Not to mention that you also should know that I'm town here given you've always come around when we both have been.

Now drop your fake ass reads and play the fucking game if you're town because you have actually managed to successfully destroy my townread on your slot by pushing these reads as real. This is easily the most bullshit I have ever seen come from a slot and there's no way that flips town if you're serious on it. If you're not scum, the wifom is fucking not helping and you need to pull your fucking head in. There is ZERO chance of Alisae being scum here and you fucking know it.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Been doing more than 2 posts per phase so you can drop that fucking bullshit right now. I have a condition that's been playing up along with generally growing to hate playing mafia because of certain patterns of behaviour. I'll give a full reads list when I have something I feel confident in. I can tell you that no one should ever be lynching in {MathBlade, Alisae, Creature}. They're all pretty much conftown through play and mechanics. I don't care what case you think you have, you're wrong and should feel bad about your inability to read people in a game about getting a read on someone's personality.

MathBlade NEVER in a million years continues to AtE about what happened with Titus as scum. MathBlade and Titus both NEVER go that far and bring it into the thread as scum. As a friend of both I can 100% attest to this and someone else has in the past too. So there's your meta if you're so inclined. Math was town in that game too.

Alisae is just town. If you don't want to trust the meta towntell that even nancy admits exists even if she's trying to somehow still scumread Ali through it??? (and nancy I will remind you that this game started and that tell was dropped before that conversation so you can't even argue that I told Alisae, besides which if you actually honestly could ever think that I was scum with Ali you're tripping because it's not how I would interact with a buddy at all). If you don't want to believe the Yume towntell (who was Akane in this game) then at least trust in the fact that I have a decent track record of figuring out when Alisae is town and have literally already had to watch a game go to the shit after I got nightkilled for it when people lynched Alisae despite me doing my best to prevent that from happening while I was alive and explaining a good reason they could not have been scum in that game. While I'm alive Alisae will not get killed. When I am dead and flip town I expect you to fucking follow my hard townreads. Under no circumstances are you to lynch them or you WILL lose. I guarantee that.

Creature... I was waiting on this game to end for my more up to date scum meta on him. All my points still stand. viewtopic.php?p=8743766&user_select%5B% ... 4#p8743766 The ego about his obvtownness is most notably missing.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

If that happened the vig would have claimed, Ali.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I wish people would actually talk about Vecna's claim instead of just pretending it didn't even happen because I have nfc how to read it.

Vecna's partner ^

I'll give everyone a hint: claiming that wonder benefits him as scum more than town there. This is trying to push people to look back at Vecna claiming he's obvtown when he's not and look at his reasoning for it to have someone else push it as a town thing when it's the furthest thing possible.