Tales of You (Endgame)

[Titan]

I don't know why we're starting other wagons when we can find Tammy's alignment by bringing them to L-3 before Page 5.

VOTE: Titan

good point

tammy needs to town it up quickly

vote titan

[Titan]

vote titan

[Titan]

Hi!

VOTE: kagura

Okay here's what I need from you guys. Nacho, if you're town I need to feel it. Alternatively, Bork you can obvtown up your slot ASAP please. I will stay with you, but if you value my sanity at all (and if you're town you should!), you will please just do this for me.

I briefly skimmed the first couple pages, notscience here's an awesome town tell for me. I literally just woke up, and the first thing I did was log in to this game. Though I'd love to stay and goof off I've got to go to work.

[Titan]

Okay here's what I need from you guys. Nacho, if you're town I need to feel it. Alternatively, Bork you can obvtown up your slot ASAP please. I will stay with you, but if you value my sanity at all (and if you're town you should!), you will please just do this for me.

I mean, that's the plan pretty much every game for me.

We got off to a pretty crap start last game - I'd prefer not to repeat it, but I didn't really understand I was doing that was upsetting you last time. I don't mind this kind of opening from you, but if you're town I expect it not to be very long lived.

-b

I'm not sure what you mean by the last line or if that's a dig at me, but Nacho will be able to recognize that I'm town through and through from my first post.

As far as last game goes, I think that we both took wrong things that were said. There are people I like to sort early, and I wanted to sort you guys early last game. Anyway last game was a special brand of frustration for me considering the entire scum team decided to jump all over me for the entirety of day one, and even though I recognized them as scum for a variety of reasons (and I'm still kicking myself for letting orci off the hook and changing my mind) nobody was paying attention because people didn't want to listen to my reads because I was emotional, or didn't have good reasons, or whatever. I'm pretty sensitive anyway, and I know I am, but when I'm already so frustrated I'm extra sensitive.

~~~

Ffery - any early thoughts on Bork?

~~~

notscience - I'm sorted. Happy?

[Titan]

kay

[Titan]

Ffery - any early thoughts on Bork?

No crystal-shattering town-notes for me yet, but I wouldn't expect one quite so soon.

Re that other game, I think you were more concerned about my Deacon Blues posts than bork's as far as reading us early on. In fact, bork townslipped like a boss in one of his early posts but nobody in the game really noticed.

We both apparently got under your skin in non-alignment-indicative ways. The dynamics will probably be different in this game.

Let's hope!

(If you mean him not knowing there was day talk, I caught that one.)

[Titan]

Is it normal for Titan to manipulate things with emotional blackmail?

I'm not seeing a town attitude towards demanding people prove they are town for the benefit of their mental state. Seems both forced and trying to stay in the upper hand.

[Titan]

Is it normal for Titan to manipulate things with emotional blackmail?

I'm not seeing a town attitude towards demanding people prove they are town for the benefit of their mental state. Seems both forced and trying to stay in the upper hand.

r u srs

have you read our sig

[Titan]

can we also not have hidden hydras pls since there's already a bunch ty

[Titan]

wait IS lord business a hydra? if so can we pls get the heads.

[Titan]

okay so can we just lynch LB today b/c both his/their posts are horrid regardless?

[Titan]

*deep breath, deep breath*

I actually think you're town.

[Titan]

Is it normal for Titan to manipulate things with emotional blackmail?

I'm not seeing a town attitude towards demanding people prove they are town for the benefit of their mental state. Seems both forced and trying to stay in the upper hand.

Okay now that I have a quick break, I can respond.

WTF? No seriously, wtf.

I'd like for you to point out the demand, first of all, I made for one slot, not people, one slot, that I really need to be reading as town right now. Yeah, I really need to read them earlier, life will be better for me and them for me not to go onto paranoid flip outs where I'm jumping ship and begging Nati for rum and a place on their ship while I restore my sanity. I doubt very very seriously that either head of that hydra viewed my early reach out to them as me "emotionally blackmailing" them.

Also, for your later suggestion that we fear you?

[Titan]

Is it normal for Titan to manipulate things with emotional blackmail?

Yes, although I don't really think they were doing it here (yet).

okay so can we just lynch LB today b/c both his/their posts are horrid regardless?

Actually, both of our heads liked and agreed with his first post, if it's the one I think it was. This is also me relatively endorsing the location of our vote. If you still think this you may need to spell it out, though it looks like maybe you don't anymore.

Also, horrid posts?

A player focusing entirely on the game setup and theme stands out as trying not to interact with the players.

And your hydra currently is demanding a few other people you know prove to you that they are town. The line of dialogue whereby you say how obvious it should be you are town suggests a self awareness you are playing up to a known town meta. And self awareness can be a scum tell.

By contrast I have seen rhymes, emotional blackmail, demands of obvious town play, discussion over the setup and one person pretending to be another person in they hydra. Horrid doesn't come close.

This actually seems like a pretty organic reaction to you Tammy, all things considered.

~Copper

I haven't read the first few pages of the game really yet, so I don't know where your vote is but I'm getting ready to, so!

I am amused when people confuse Nacho and me when we hydra, but I'm just plain baffled when they confuse Arthur and me.

~~~

But, shiny!

VOTE: just sheep us

[Titan]

It's real!

[Titan]

I don't know why we're starting other wagons when we can find Tammy's alignment by bringing them to L-3 before Page 5.

VOTE: Titan

Yeah, but if we find out that she's scum apparently we'll just proceed to not lynch her for some reason.

Every day of that game I asked myself how the hell was I still alive when I was so obviously not town.

[Titan]

pedit- I want the reference too. I want to sort Tammy as fast as possible.

This one's easy. Never fear Tammy Town is here!

[Titan]

I don't think there is anything you can possibly do to convince me that you're SSK.

I could crank out a paragraph about cheese? I could make all the posts about cheese.

I seem to remember a two-week long cheese troll stroll.

[Titan]

My vote feels suddenly dirty somehow but shiny balls are rolling and we go weeeeeeeeeee!

(we also overuse exclamation points! Like so!!!!! It denotes excitement!)

[Titan]

#45 may be the best Brian Skies post I've ever read.

It is not a dig at you - If you're town, I'm expecting you to figure us out.

-b

I had to go back to work, but I didn't know if the that won't last long if you're town was referring to the reach out to you guys. But, this makes better sense.

[Titan]

By contrast I have seen rhymes, emotional blackmail, demands of obvious town play, discussion over the setup and one person pretending to be another person in they hydra. Horrid doesn't come close.

Hey you should be happy it's only at five pages. Last time we all got together in hydras, there was what? 20 something pages in the first 24 hours.

[Titan]

okay so can we just lynch LB today b/c both his/their posts are horrid regardless?

Actually, both of our heads liked and agreed with his first post, if it's the one I think it was.
~Copper

Yeah I actually did too but I was just trying to get an aggressive reaction out of him so then Tammy can respond to him with a super duper town post.

[Titan]

(Though I have a secret agenda to sabotage this hydra because it must be boring for tammy to be called obvtown everytime she's town but shhh don't tell her)

[Titan]

By contrast I have seen rhymes, emotional blackmail, demands of obvious town play, discussion over the setup and one person pretending to be another person in they hydra. Horrid doesn't come close.

Hey you should be happy it's only at five pages. Last time we all got together in hydras, there was what? 20 something pages in the first 24 hours.

I am honestly disappointed that this didn't happen.

Me too! I'd actually be able to participate this time as I'm not as busy as I was for the last one, and I'm not not-town and dreading every post.

~~~~~

Why do most of my other heads like to troll me?

~~~~~

So, I didn't like the cupcake's first post but it was mostly cuz of the caps. However, the last time I thought his overuse of caps denoted the same tone he took when we were not-town partners he was town. However however, I've been pretty decent at reading the cupcake, so hopefully he'll make that a bit more clear soonish.

[Titan]

I doubt very very seriously that either head of that hydra viewed my early reach out to them as me "emotionally blackmailing" them.

I didn't, but at the same time, this guy isn't familiar with the interactions in Vesperia between 1) your slot and mine and 2) (probably more relevant) both our slots and Nacho's slot, because that experience is immediately what is coloring my interpretation of your opening and it should occur to you that it would not color his interpretation of it.

-b

There's more to it than that, but! I do get that he doesn't know the dynamic between most players here; that's pretty obvious. However, the hyperbolic "emotional blackmail" and "demands" is odd regardless.

[Titan]

OH if walking dead vibes refers to town reads? then I totally misread the tone of that post. I think. I'll get back to you on that.

[Titan]

LOL.

I love that episode.

[Titan]

You can call us Tamthur, SirTam (would be weird though), or TamDayne, so Arthur doesn't get left out.

Or you can call me the Rational Head (TM) which is what I was referred to the first time we hydrad

[Titan]

VOTE: cupcake

shinier

[Titan]

Bad Mastin!

No town cake for you.

I wasn't even being confrontational, but!

[Titan]

Like how do you even get confrontational from that? Like it's so far away from confrontational that you must be using a defunct dictionary.

[Titan]

OMG. Mastin drew scum again?

[Titan]

And no I'm not omgusing before anyone accuses me of that BS. But I do not believe for one second Town!Mastin makes those posts. I just don't.

[Titan]

Though now Mastin makes my cupcake vote feel dirty.

[Titan]

VOTE: mafiassk

even shinier!

[Titan]

VOTE: mastinssk

[Titan]

OMG. Mastin drew scum again?

What makes you think so? I don't know the difference, I just know that those posts would come off as scummy to me in a void/if I was naive wrt to the player behind them.

I would like as detailed an answer as you're willing to put the time into giving, and I will read games if I have to.

Which posts would come off scummy? My posts or Mastin's posts?

[Titan]

Okay well to start. He over explained how he lost and didn't have the password to his hydra. Those things happen, why the need for the explanation?

Then he lets us know he did, in fact, get his role pm. I'm not sure why that pinged me, but it did.

His response to CarbonFiber that if he didn't see SSK was town then he's scum because he knew SSK was town before he got his role pm. Read off.

His comment on Arthur's obvious joke and self-vote being scummy is lolwtf. Then he called my post confrontational with Nacho and Bork. I wasn't partaking in friendly banter, nor was I pretending to. I wasn't even scum hunting them in that post or being confrontational, nor was I pretending to. It was a simple request or a plea for them to make the alignment of their slot clear so I wouldn't spend my time worrying about them. That he misinterpreted that looks willful, even more so than Lord Business, who doesn't know that we play together often and so there might be a reason why I want to not have to worry about them. He was in Tales of Vesperia too, in which I mislynched Nacho due to incorrectly reading him until it was too late to do anything about it and there were several head butts between Bork's hydra and I until I recognized that they were in fact the vig who's shot I controlled.

He then says he won't even take Nacho's word for his read on me based on me saying Nacho will recognize I'm town from my first post. I don't think for one second that he disrespects Nacho's ability in mafia so much that he thinks that Nacho would be swayed by me saying he'll see I'm town from my first post and call me town if he didn't feel it. I mean you only have to look at Too Many Heads to see that Nacho would absolutely come after me if he thought I was scum. He's pretty much the second best person able to read me on this site, and sure I can fool him sometimes for a little while, but it's not from me saying he'll read me as town from my first post. He'll read me as town from my first post because he'll probably recognize the tone there and he'll just be even more convinced as the game goes on. And I don't believe for one second that he actually believes my first post was emotional blackmail. He's played in enough games with me, as town and as scum, to not even entertain that. So, it's complete BS.

His reads don't feel real.

MAC - He doesn't feel like he's actually trying to figure out the game though he feels like he's posturing the game. The reason why I said it's not omgus because in the last game, in which he was in!, the entire scum team came after me and when I identified their motivations as scum motivation they discredited me by saying that I was just omgusing.

[Titan]

Sorry to disappoint you, but there's not a scum team on it and no one here will buy it either, so you might want to rethink who you're going to push this game

[Titan]

*with me on it

[Titan]

@ Titan. It was apparent the response from you to me came from different people, but you haven't actually addressed why one of you chose to panic post and declare a need to lynch me and then one of you came in with what appeared to be a an attempt to respond to my issues, albeit in a belittling fashion.

Arthur did talk about that. He was being aggressive with you in hopes that your response would provoke a response in me. (People are not nice and think that my reactions are funny, and I tend to get really obviously town the more frustrated I am.)

That wasn't even a belittling fashion. You were hyperbolic in your statement and it was odd. I get that you don't know the interrelationships here, but it still felt like an odd response to me needing a player slot to town themselves so I wouldn't have to worry about them.

[Titan]

*I mean she in all that post, sorry.

[Titan]

It wasn't whimsical because I wasn't being whimsical. I needed to believe they were town, and I needed to believe they were town early. I wasn't confronting them, I was practically begging them to town themselves for me, so I wouldn't have to worry.

[Titan]

And I don't believe for one second that she actually believes my first post was emotional blackmail. She's played in enough games with me, as town and as scum, to not even entertain that.

Except past games with you is specifically why that post pinged me. It didn't feel like Tammy-town. At all.

You're abilities to say what feels like Tammy!Town is hereby revoked. I couldn't be more town in this game, and you obviously don't know or are pretending to not know what that looks like.

[Titan]

I had a damn reason to need for them to town early dammit.

[Titan]

I saw me first matey rhymed
So I decided to tried
Mastin's prob town
but their buddying me is sound
so scum they may be
We shall see

I don't know about Titan
I'm kinda frightened
That Athena is back
In which case give 'em the rack!

VOTE: Titan

If this is Nati, do better.

[Titan]

I saw me first matey rhymed
So I decided to tried
Mastin's prob town
but their buddying me is sound
so scum they may be
We shall see

I don't know about Titan
I'm kinda frightened
That Athena is back
In which case give 'em the rack!

VOTE: Titan

Like this is fucking bullshit. There is no way no how you are comparing me to that game. I couldn't be more different.

[Titan]

That vote better have come from muffin.

[Titan]

. I couldn't be more town in this game, and you obviously don't know or are pretending to not know what that looks like.

Except this? Is saying this.

Your game this game looks like it's meant to be an imitation of your towngame, rather than an actual towngame.

Hey! Get a better line. Scum!Prohawk already used that against me last game. Try a new scum case on me.

I'm like fucking bleeding town here; there is no way you and nati don't see that.

[Titan]

I saw me first matey rhymed
So I decided to tried
Mastin's prob town
but their buddying me is sound
so scum they may be
We shall see

I don't know about Titan
I'm kinda frightened
That Athena is back
In which case give 'em the rack!

VOTE: Titan

Like this is fucking bullshit. There is no way no how you are comparing me to that game. I couldn't be more different.

Doesn't self awareness of this fact make the defence null?

He's comparing me. And if that's Nati saying that, it's absolute bullshit. I'll give muffin for not being able to read me, but Nati, nope.

And I wish self-awareness could make my scum game better or make me able to play like I play when I'm town as scum. It never looks like this, because this is the town game I can't fake, and there's no way mastin or nati thinks this is it.

[Titan]

And no I'm not omgusing before anyone accuses me of that BS. But I do not believe for one second Town!Mastin makes those posts. I just don't.

See. It's this type of post that I talk about. Just look at this tone. But then there's nothing behind it! Bad, Titan, bad!

Bullshit mastin bullshit. You were in Tales of Vesperia where the entire scum team came after me and then claimed I was a rampant omguser when I identified their scum motivations. Nacho even accused me of omgusing and thought they were town and he did that to me in Tales of the Abyss as well when my case against scum got dismissed as omgus.

[Titan]

the lass's words are curious
I'm gonna consult rquieux
but our vote is like gold
in the hands of the bold

Your vote sucks, and Nati would know that.

[Titan]

Did Cabd make a requirement for scum to come after me day one of every Tales game?

[Titan]

Actually I don't like Mastin coming in and just town reading NachoBork as strongly. If Mastin is scum, then there's a good chance that that blatant town read and jump all over me for my first post means that they could be partners. Because really who misinterprets me practically begging someone to town themselves early as confrontational as not recognize it as someone starting the game paranoid?

And if the NachoBorkdra ARE scum no one is ever going to lynch them, and in that case lynching us is probably a good idea actually because it's the only way they might be able to be stopped.

[Titan]

Found what I was looking for finally. Too many heads mafia. Posts 698 and 750, are they posts from tammy?

Heavy use of AtE, and a very unsportsmanlike use of emotion. I have to agree that the posts here are not anything like that. I would be disappointed to see that kind of tactics used here, felt very underhand.

Indeed they were. In fact, that was the first time I tried to imitate my town emotion when scum. I tried to tell people I couldn't fake it, and part of that was me trying and failing miserably to give Nacho what type of reaction he would expect from a town me.

[Titan]

Actually I don't like Mastin coming in and just town reading NachoBork as strongly. If Mastin is scum, then there's a good chance that that blatant town read and jump all over me for my first post means that they could be partners.

Actually, me turbotownreading Nacho is a scumtell of me and a sign that he's town. I don't turbotownread him when we're both scum; I let him take the helm on dictating our interactions. Because he's one of the only players who I consider to be a better scum planner than I am. (Where do you think I learned my technique?)

Why are you interacting with me as much as you are? Have you changed your play style so much in the past year or so that you've ditched your "I don't interact with my scum reads" thing?

[Titan]

the lass's words are curious
I'm gonna consult rquieux
but our vote is like gold
in the hands of the bold

Your vote sucks, and Nati would know that.

Couple of things here that really just aggrevate me, because I know you can do better to make yourself at least LOOK like town.
But no.
You begin by outright discrediting any reason for a vote that RBD has on you without actually defending yourself. But then it gets even worse, you're doing so by appealing to a head of a hydra. I'm tempted to say buddying, but no. I think it's a come back of Appeal to Authority. You're placing Nat as the only "reasonable" head of the hydra so that you can just discredit any post that they make because you could think it's not Nat.

That's an unreasonable standard to set. Those are reasons I just can't see this being a town post.

AND you were in Attack on Titan AND Too Many Heads. Muffin can't really read me. He's the one who became less convinced I was scum in Too Many Heads while Nati was convinced I was scum. In Attack on Titan when Muffin was scum hunting me in the neighborhood and we got into our fight, Nati replaced in saw our interactions and declared me confirmed town and claimed we were now masons.

You're appealing to buzzword. If that was Nati to actually draw a link to a game in which he read me correctly and ignoring every reason why I'm town here is appalling. If that's a muffin vote, then okay, muffin can't really read me. But Nati can.

I never said one head is reasonable; I didn't make any qualifications for either head other than the Nati head can read me and the muffin head can't.

[Titan]

snip

~ F-16

So while you describe all of your points in detail, you never really say anything solid. Mind elaborating on who you think are scum at the moment?

I didn't say anything solid because I don't have any solid reads. Most players are of a caliber that nothing they did so far is unfakable as scum. Cephrir could be scum.

~ F-16

[Titan]

snip

~ F-16

So while you describe all of your points in detail, you never really say anything solid. Mind elaborating on who you think are scum at the moment?

I didn't say anything solid because I don't have any solid reads. Most players are of a caliber that nothing they did so far is unfakable as scum. Cephrir could be scum.

~ F-16

Why?

~ F-16

If you aren't sure of my alignment, and you think there's a chance I haven't done anything I can't fake as scum, how come you're not interacting with me to figure it out? I should be one of the people you can read easiest here. And you're not doing anything other than a flaccid "I'm not sure about Titan" though I have enough here that you should have something to go off of or to interact with me on to figure it out.

[Titan]

And now nobody is going to listen to any of my reads, so congratulations scum you've learned to get me to react and I still haven't learned not to.

[Titan]

Where'd you go falcon?

[Titan]

My post was scummy. None of my posts are scummy. They're all town posts, but sure whatever fits your scum narrative!

[Titan]

Well reading it without prior knowledge if your alignment makes you hope you are town, because the level of AtE is awful. It makes it worse to then find out you were mafia.

But on a positive note it serves as a good guide for meta. Either you have improved as a mafia player or you are town this time around.

Well I get accused of ate-ing when I'm town, it's not intentional. I just tend to bleed what I'm thinking and feeling all over the place.

That was the last time I drew scum, so nope. I *can* play a better scum game than that one but I tend to take a more subtle approach than that game.

But I am town this time around, and I'm not sure what to make of you recognizing that and two people who have played with me there and in other games to claim not to see it.

[Titan]

f-16's post was terrible

cephrir is lolbuddying

ns is town(ish)

I have skipped every single nacho, nati/muffin, and mastin post.

Hey look I'm doing work!

[Titan]

snip

~ F-16

So while you describe all of your points in detail, you never really say anything solid. Mind elaborating on who you think are scum at the moment?

I didn't say anything solid because I don't have any solid reads. Most players are of a caliber that nothing they did so far is unfakable as scum. Cephrir could be scum.

~ F-16

Why?

~ F-16

If you aren't sure of my alignment, and you think there's a chance I haven't done anything I can't fake as scum, how come you're not interacting with me to figure it out? I should be one of the people you can read easiest here. And you're not doing anything other than a flaccid "I'm not sure about Titan" though I have enough here that you should have something to go off of or to interact with me on to figure it out.

TICK TOCK FALCON.

[Titan]

@Tammy, I read your ISO more closely. I actually think you are pretty town now. So, the reason I didn't initially have a strong townread was that your post 53 felt a little aggressive because I assume Nacho would probably town himself up regardless but I do like the follow up in 74 asking ffery what she thought of Bork. I like the suspicion of me as well since you never read me wrong before, I assumed scum-you would townread me to keep it consistent. Post 126 looked really town as well and 129 mirrored my thoughts and the rest of your ISO feels town as well. My mistake.

What do you think of NotScience's posts so far?

~ F-16

hahaha can we vote this

[Titan]

it's tammy

[Titan]

Guh. Sorry, SSK.
VOTE: Carbon Fiber.

:goodvoting:

first post ive read from you gj mastin

[Titan]

[Titan]

@Tammy, I read your ISO more closely. I actually think you are pretty town now. So, the reason I didn't initially have a strong townread was that your post 53 felt a little aggressive because I assume Nacho would probably town himself up regardless but I do like the follow up in 74 asking ffery what she thought of Bork. I like the suspicion of me as well since you never read me wrong before, I assumed scum-you would townread me to keep it consistent. Post 126 looked really town as well and 129 mirrored my thoughts and the rest of your ISO feels town as well. My mistake.

What do you think of NotScience's posts so far?

~ F-16

Are you and mastin writing from the same play book? There's just no way that can be read as aggressive. I don't see how you thought that. I think I prefer the emotional blackmail accusation because that at least gets to how I felt when I wrote that post. Why would you think that nacho would town himself up right away and why were you just writing nacho off as town before either head had posted? You know that I'm pretty decent at reading nacho, though I read him wrong for a bit recently when I should have recognized he was town. I just don't see how people who know me and know how I approach mafia don't see that as a plea for people I need to have sorted. What I find as somewhat amusing is the people I directed that post to, the people who it was written for, didn't have a problem with it but other people are like ohyoudint! And nacho who can read me better than almost anyone else on this site didn't see anything wrong with it and nacho would love to catch me and lynch me if I were scum, so I'm just kinda thrown here.

I just don't know what to think of you now. I expected you to pose some questions to me and try to figure out my alignment, not read my iso and go "my bad". It feels like appeasement. I might just need to take a step back though, I feel like I've already been kicked off balance and it feels like it was done on purpose again.

I have an early townread on notscience. I liked a whole lot that he wanted to sort me early. His aggressiveness and stance that he's obvtown fits his town games that I'm aware of. Unless he's changed his scum meta it's not so aggressive and involved. I also liked Brian skies post.

[Titan]

Oh and for ~reasons~ carbon fiber and lord business are not partners.

[Titan]

@Tammy, I read your ISO more closely. I actually think you are pretty town now. So, the reason I didn't initially have a strong townread was that your post 53 felt a little aggressive because I assume Nacho would probably town himself up regardless but I do like the follow up in 74 asking ffery what she thought of Bork. I like the suspicion of me as well since you never read me wrong before, I assumed scum-you would townread me to keep it consistent. Post 126 looked really town as well and 129 mirrored my thoughts and the rest of your ISO feels town as well. My mistake.

What do you think of NotScience's posts so far?

~ F-16

hahaha can we vote this

This old rhyming fool
Is rather curious as to why
You pose such a question
But do not vote the guy?

Arthur's asking me if we can vote him.

[Titan]

Because I'm interacting with the person he wants to vote to see if I want to vote there.

So far, I'm not compelled to move from where I am.

[Titan]

I wasn't referring to you as knocking me off balance.

[Titan]

Oh, and I was also expecting you to say something like you would be able to read my slot as soon as I posted in response to people discussing FT's initial post but you didn't say anything which made me wonder why.
~ F-16

I wasn't sure what I thought about it and wanted to see how you came in just how you did. I learned from attack on Titan that I want to read you as town and it can color my early reads. I wanted to see how you would interact with me. Also, my main focus early game was seeing if I could get a read on nachobork. I think they're probably town, so after that was me just settling in and dealing with what was here.

[Titan]

question why ffery and Beli are being read as town. I expected ffery to be more enthusiastic about playing with this playerlist and I don't see it yet. But I should be able to get a proper read later on. Also, could you point out which heads posted what so far?

I'm plenty enthusiastic about this game. However I'm hellaciously time constrained this month and it's impacting the amount of time I spend in all my games everywhere. I'll be going home in a little over a week and my play should start to be more "normal" after that.

What do you think about all the suspicion you guys have generated?

Any early thoughts on rbd?

[Titan]

Hi Tammy!

You seemed to have sneezed or something at the end of giving your read on me- you added something after town.

I don't get where mastin's coming from at all regarding you being scum.

@F-16, While yes the interactions are

technically

fakeable, they felt genuine to me. I just felt like the conversation with me early came from a natural place.

That's because they're not scum reading me. It's fake. Just look at their interaction with me; that is no way no how town trying to figure me out.

[Titan]

I wasn't sure what I thought about it and wanted to see how you came in just how you did. I learned from attack on Titan that I want to read you as town and it can color my early reads. I wanted to see how you would interact with me. Also, my main focus early game was seeing if I could get a read on nachobork. I think they're probably town, so after that was me just settling in and dealing with what was here.

Okay, that's fine. I think they could be town but I'm pretty confident I'll be able to tell if Nacho is town as well sooner or later. What do you think of LordBusiness? While I didn't agree with any of his content, he came across tonally as town although it was a bit aggressive.
~ F-16

I think that Lord Business is the type of player that will take a little longer to sort. I did like that he looked at my meta and recognized I'm more likely town here, but I know that's a mafia weakness especially when I'm getting attacked for bs, so it's one I'll have to wait on.

[Titan]

Tammy talk to me about Clyton and Carbon Fiber.

What are you thinking?

Completely null on Clyton right now, waiting to see how his promised post comes in.

I should be able to get a better read on Carbon Fiber as the day goes on. I think from Attack on Titan I have some markers for him as scum, but I also know from that game that I want to read him as town so I'll need more. I did like that he responded to Mastin that he's not getting lynched this game though. I'm not sure if I see a brazen statement like that coming from him as scum, but.

[Titan]

Falcon - What are your thoughts on Mastin?

[Titan]

I did like that he responded to Mastin that he's not getting lynched this game though. I'm not sure if I see a brazen statement like that coming from him as scum, but.

You have enough experience to know this isn't how it works.

For some people sure, I'm not sure for Falcon though. It's not a slam-dunk tell, but it's something I liked.

[Titan]

Tammy, ye are very wrong,
About my read on ye in previous games,
While my ability to read ye might not be strong,
It's not as bad as ye claim

In Titans, I didn't ask Nati to replace,
Because I had trouble reading ye,
Nati will tell ye I just wanted space,
Ye weren't even a scum read for me

And in Too Many Heads I never wavered,
But I backed off to work with someone,
For the situation was not one I favoured,
I wanted the town to become one

But the read on ye here be Nati, not me,
And I'm not interfering,
I have no strong feelings about you from what I've seen,
All ye be doing is jeering

Well that's disappointing that it's Nati.

And you're wrong about all I'm doing is jeering. I entered this game pretty damn strong, relaxed and happy, that's super duper obvious. I let scum bait me, again, because I suck and never learn to not let them bait me and frustrate me.

[Titan]

ALTERNATIVELY Mastin is scum and nachobork are town and his laser focus on jumping all over me for my post to NachoBork is an attempt to get Nacho to look favorably on him, which Nacho probably will since I think he's scum and Nacho is allergic to actually listening to my reads.

[Titan]

Falcon - What are your thoughts on Mastin?

Nothing in SSK's posts pinged for me and on a re-read I felt that he was natural and relaxed in his interactions with NotScience and his insistence on voting RBD didn't come across as fake.

I don't like Mastin's choice of targets who he calls scum and town in Post 141. He townreads RBD who are persuasive players. He scumreads Cephrir (which I guess I can relate to), he leans scum on Clyton who is a newish player and potentially someone that can be lynched. He scumreads us. FT doesn't play on mafiascum a lot and I haven't played as many games with this playerlist as some others have so he could be thinking of us as a potential mislynch down the road. Cupcake Panda (Katsuki) seems to not know a lot of people in this playerlist and is also a scumread. But, Mastin and Katsuki hydra'd together so that one is probably a joke. If NotScience is town, he has already started buddying with him. The entire post came across as calculated. I don't like the not trusting Nacho part in Post 146 and the vague townread on Mac while not committing to a position could be Mastin planning a late game mislynch on Mac the way he did in Anything Goes. He follows up with in Post 162 with an obvtown read on Nacho, GIF, and Orc (although the latter two hadn't posted but if they are town, they are not going to be mislynches since they know the playerlist very well). He feels the towniness in ffery and Beli which is again odd and nothing that ffery has posted is unfakable for her as scum. But ffery and Beli are not going to be mislynched in this playerlist so he needs to get on their side. The only thing that sticks out of this pattern of townreading the stronger players is his scumread on you. He mentioned that as scum, he sheeps you and Nacho and keeps on your good sides so the attack on you could be an effort to get Nacho to townread him. The push on us makes sense if you are misreading us because you misreading us would make our slot a viable mislynch. I also don't like his push on me for not having solid reads. It was page 7 in a large game so implying that it was scummy is a bit of a stretch.

Although everything I pointed out is possible for him to do as town, I think it is less likely than him manufacturing reads because of who he is reading as town and who he is reading as scum and the amount of information with which he developed those reads seems unlikely to be natural.

~ F-16

Hmm…Mastin said she sheeps me when scum? That…doesn't make sense. In Good v. Evil, she called me confirmed scum when she was scum and she pushed me and tried to get me lynched a good portion of the game, even made up this dream he had where I the queen bee had everyone doing my bidding and it was her job to save everyone from my scum self, or some shit like that. It wasn't until endgame that he made a weird maneuver and started push Nacho as confirmed scum that Nacho realized she was wrong about Mastin and we lynched him for the game. The other time when Mastin was scum was when he took over your slot in Attack on Titan, and he certainly didn't sheep me; he mostly just tried to frustrate the hell out of me when I correctly scum read him and she was telling me I needed to do better blah blah blah. The other times I've seen him as scum, we were partners.

That's why this attack makes no sense to come from town!Mastin. It doesn't look like either of them are trying to figure me out. They've decided they were going to push me as scum and are framing everything I've said to fit some scum narrative that makes no sense whatsoever. There's like literally no way I'm scum here, so it's just baffling. It makes a hell of a lot more sense that she watched how frustrated the entire scum team coming after me in Vesperia made me and that it made them look town. They're trying to look busy, they're not trying to find scum.

Also also I really really don't like his pointing out that he's not going to trust Nacho's read on me. He knows Nacho will town read me, and he knows that if Nacho is town he's not going to just let a lynch go through on me when I'm obviously town, so his predetermining that he's going to ignore it is awful.

[Titan]

I don't get where mastin's coming from at all regarding you being scum.

Mainly SSK's read at this point. On my end, I didn't like their posting; it felt artificial, and as I said, Tammy's post was bluntly put confrontational. She keeps insisting it was a polite request, but I see just an immediate face-to-face direct, well, confrontation (there's quite literally no other word to describe it) with Nacho to look good without actually being good.

I'm a real big sucker for her later more logical posts, though. Still suspicious, I guess, but it's not going to be my half pushing there. (I just won't stop SSK.)
.

It was a plea for someone I'm paranoid about and need not to be. I need to get a read on them. I need to not be worried about it if they're town. When I'm confrontational, I typically don't say please or say that my sanity is at stake!

(And quite frankly, what Nacho expects from me is shit talking and jokes as my first post. If I were scum, that's what I'd try to emulate. Or I'd vote them without anything else since that's how I've been entering games lately - see Vesperia - but there was something I need there. By meta, I have to vote Nacho, but i don't have to say anything else.)

[Titan]

I let scum bait me, again, because I suck and never learn to not let them bait me and frustrate me

Ye say scum were baiting ye,
But just to be clear,
Do ye mean MastinSSK and me?
Or who do you think is scum here?

I be as town as can be,
And while not definitely true,
As far as I can see,
MastinSSK be town, too

Jury is out on you. Still think MastinSSK is scum. They don't look like they're trying to read me. I do like Mastin's wavering on her read, but again mafia weakness I know exists. It could easily be something that they realized was a bad push.

I entered this game pretty damn strong, relaxed and happy, that's super duper obvious.

So ye do claim,
But from what I've seen,
Your start to this game,
Did not look that green

Look again. Like I simply can take you seriously if you're actually reading my posts and saying this. You've seen my scum game and my town game and I just don't believe this is your read. Like I'm legitimately thinking you're reaction testing me or other people for some reason because your read makes no sense whatsoever. I don't enter games paranoid about a certain slot when I'm scum, that's a town entrance through and through. As is everything else.

I just think you've been drinking too much rum or something, that just is not your read on me.

[Titan]

- It wasn't confrontational because Titan was asking Kagura for a read on the former in a forceful manner. Kagura hasn't even stated anything; Titan "requested" a read. But I understand Mastin's sentiments on it being confrontational. I think the right words are "forceful" (why the pressure vote then?)

- Titan's responses however are very OMGUS natured; unfortunately, it is indeed what she feared in regards to a previous game.

It wasn't a pressure vote. In RVS, I almost always vote the person I know best in the game. My RVS votes are like hugs; I'm saying hello. I think there's like two instances where I haven't done this once I started playing with and getting to know people.

I scum hunt the attacks on me. I get it wrong sometimes but I have a decent track record of recognizing when they're scum attacks and town attacks, though people do like to discredit me for it being omgus regardless of the fact that I don't attack everyone who attacks me and do end up thinking some people are town based on their attacks reading genuine. Scum have been attacking me lately a lot for very weird things though.

~~~~~

I normally don't like reads lists given so early in a large theme, but I liked this one especially in conjunction with some of the earlier posts.

[Titan]

@ Mastin, We played in Extra-terrestrial mafia and your posts sounded a lot different and involved. Why the change in demeanor when interacting with me?

Hmm…Mastin said she sheeps me when scum? That…doesn't make sense. In Good v. Evil, she called me confirmed scum when she was scum and she pushed me and tried to get me lynched a good portion of the game, even made up this dream he had where I the queen bee had everyone doing my bidding and it was her job to save everyone from my scum self, or some shit like that. It wasn't until endgame that he made a weird maneuver and started push Nacho as confirmed scum that Nacho realized she was wrong about Mastin and we lynched him for the game. The other time when Mastin was scum was when he took over your slot in Attack on Titan, and he certainly didn't sheep me; he mostly just tried to frustrate the hell out of me when I correctly scum read him and she was telling me I needed to do better blah blah blah. The other times I've seen him as scum, we were partners.

That's why this attack makes no sense to come from town!Mastin. It doesn't look like either of them are trying to figure me out. They've decided they were going to push me as scum and are framing everything I've said to fit some scum narrative that makes no sense whatsoever. There's like literally no way I'm scum here, so it's just baffling. It makes a hell of a lot more sense that she watched how frustrated the entire scum team coming after me in Vesperia made me and that it made them look town. They're trying to look busy, they're not trying to find scum.

Also also I really really don't like his pointing out that he's not going to trust Nacho's read on me. He knows Nacho will town read me, and he knows that if Nacho is town he's not going to just let a lynch go through on me when I'm obviously town, so his predetermining that he's going to ignore it is awful.

I think Mastin realizes that

What do you make of his back-off based on being a sucker for your later "logical" posts? I've skimmed Good vs Evil as well so I am not sure which games he was referring to as sheeping you in post 197. And I agree that going after you could be a scum strategy after spectating on Tales of Vesperia. It would have to temporary though to snag a few townreads because an actual mislynch would be impossible.

~ F-16

eeennnnnggggghhhhh

I'll get back to you on this. I'm going to go watch some Dr. Who and go to sleep. I need to step back from this game. I feel like you're manipulating me now and maybe everything I was thinking was wrong and that might not even be fair because you might not but you're taking my side on this Mastin thing when you came in not exactly being sure about me until I pushed you and it's freaking me the fuck out right now. I feel completely off balance and I need a break.

[Titan]

Regardless, he is doing a good job giving off a null read with one head trolling with the pirate approach and the other head hiding behind that trolling head. Either way, he has something to hide.

I think ye be a bit confused,
Because while some of me posts be subpar,
This might leave ye a bit amused,
Only one head has posted so far

If that's true, it makes me feel better.

[Titan]

Whatever.

[Titan]

Feeling mastin town from stuff like #165 - it's entirely tonal but very close to mastin town I've seen (and the one I wish I would've seen in Vesperia)

I also have a minor gut town on Clyton for 169's headlong response to pressure.

I had a damn reason to need for them to town early dammit.

I hadn't really thought about until this morning - I feel like you kinda know 1) how obvtown I get and 2) (especially after vesperia) how little of a footprint Nacho has been making in his hydra games lately (and considering my overall communication with him this game so far, that doesn't seem likely to change this game) especially after the pulling teeth process that communicating with penguin about Nacho was last game.

Why not just read me?

-b

p-edit: thanks for making my point there buddy ol' pal

Um I don't get this question. I only know or think I know you get obvtown from that one time when we played on skype and we suspected each other then town read each other then suspected each other and when I said I'd only been mislynched once in the forums you said you had too (at least I think that was a conversation I had with you, I know it was the game). So, I do believe that you get obvtown, but we don't exactly have much experience with each other. You were scum in We the Purple and danced with Nacho and I left that read up to him because I don't think I'd ever played with you at that point and I didn't know what he was looking for. The other two times we played together you were town but you played with ffery, and in Tales of the Abyss you guys died night one and I think you had just had your kid, so most of the posting was ffery. In Tales of Vesperia, I had you guys as scum early and Mala was the one who kept telling me she was gut reading you as town but then downgraded that later after I had you as solid town from being pretty convinced you were the vig based on things you had said regarding GreyIce.

I know how busy Nacho is, that doesn't mean I won't try to read him. He's the head I'm more familiar with, so of course I'm going to look for what tells I've accumulated there. But I don't get where you think I wasn't trying to read you? I literally said alternatively Bork you can obvtown your slot ASAP please. Like I directly addressed you and the fact that what I believe I know is that as town you're pretty town. And then I literally asked ffery about what she thought about you early game. So, I don't get where you think for one second I'm not trying to read you. And since I tend to be paranoid of Nacho until he hits the markers that I believe are definitely his town game, I was literally looking to you more. I have a reason for needing an early read on your slot; if you're town, it's not important, but it's there nonetheless, and I want you sorted sooner.

pedit: Nacho if you want me to drink the koolaid you need to give me a shot too. Being stingy and not sharing is not a town trait I'm sure!

[Titan]

also, the above post was brought to you by the word literally, apparently.

[Titan]

Nah I wasn't expecting skype to have any bearing on it.

I think really it's more that I felt that I was bleeding town day and night in both abyss (which I really did get into after a slow start) and vesperia (moreso than really anyone in the game) and the fact that I feel that I am exceptionally easy to read. I didn't really know you actually ever had a true scum lean on us in vesperia outside of that whole nebulous 'flat' thing.

-b

Oh I remember you being in the abyss more now. I think I put your slot as hard town after your wall. But yeah, I did have an early scum read on you guys in vesperia, part of it was the Prohawk thing which was hilariously wrong and was wiped away once Prohawk entered the game. After the game empire pointed out a couple of reasons I should never had read ffery as scum past like the second page anyway.

I get the feeling exceptionally easy to read, so I guess I understand your question to me a bit more as it's probably a way I would feel.

[Titan]

After the game empire pointed out a couple of reasons I should never had read ffery as scum past like the second page anyway.

I'm not giving you those reasons this game.

btw do you remember Nati scumreading you in NY 169? There was one hilarious geists crosspost where he and I reacted completely differently to one of your posts. I dunno if that does or should factor in to your RBD read.

Why aren't you giving me those reasons this game?

Also, I do remember that in NY169, and incidentally I feel so much like I did that game but I'm trying to not get as frustrated. What I figured, at the time and couldn't say, was that Red Wine was happening at the same time and I figured that Nati was a little more suspicious of me than he would have normally been due to him being my partner in that game. Red Wine was one of my better scum games, so it made a bit of sense to me that he would be a bit more cautious then.

There's been that game and three more since then, and him even mentioning Too Many Heads doesn't make any sense. I still refuse to believe that's Nati. Not after how easily he was able to differentiate between my actual frustration in Attack on Titan and my fake attempt at frustration in Too Many Heads, and how easily he was able to read me as town in Tales of Vesperia.

I don't even know what my read on them is this game.

[Titan]

also, the above post was brought to you by the word literally, apparently.

TAMMY THAT'S LITERALLY MY WORD D:

[Titan]

this game isn't going fast enough

hint: if i can keep up with the game then there's something inherently wrong going on.

[Titan]

Sorry falcon, it's been a really long day and I'm crashing. I will get back to this tomorrow. I did briefly skim stuff though and loved being rick rolled. It made me laugh, and everyone knows what that means (also, I think sotty helped out z-mafia quite a bit by keeping nacho and me alive, and you for the vanilla investigation! But damn was pyp one of our finer moments!)

Anyway, I have some thoughts but they will have to wait until tomorrow.

[Titan]

It is obvious who LordBusiness is but I won't reveal their alt if they are not willing. The content he provided seems off with regard to the gamestate. Calling Titan's posts "emotional blackmail" feels like a stretch but tonally he comes across as direct and forceful which makes me think he could be town.

~ F-16

I meant to ask this question last night. What made lord business go from "could be town" to your third strongest town read? And if his alt is obvious to you, how is he anything more than null right now? (I'm not asking for meta here in your response as I'm not interested in outing the alt, just trying to get at the basis for your read.)

[Titan]

Why do people keep insisting LB is an alt when he clearly isn't?

He most definitely is an alt.

[Titan]

He most definitely is an alt.

Someone that you know? That knows you?

I'm all for protecting anonymity, but you guys are talking about LB as if you know who it is and if it's pertinent to the read then I don't know how to enter that conversation with any semblance of tact.

-b

Yes and yes.

I don't really know how to be tactful about it either as I'm not interested in outing his alt either, but I also can't pretend I don't know. I didn't know it at first; I realized it after Falcon pointed out that he was an alt.

It's why I don't think they're likely to be partners if one is scum; I would think that a partner wouldn't bring attention to that. Although him being one that he had a pretty easy early leaning town read on is eating at me a bit.

I'm trying to figure out how it affects my read on him though.

[Titan]

Is it normal for Titan to manipulate things with emotional blackmail?

Why this post then if he knows you?

-b

That's what's fucking with my head.

He's obviously going for anonymity here is my first guess. Well that was my second guess. My first guess was that he was trying to provoke me, but the way he went about it afterwards makes that make less sense.

I know for a fact I know who it is though.

[Titan]

I mean people use alts for anonymity and the best way to keep it is to pretend you don't know the people you know. Katsuki did a similar thing with me in Tales of Vesperia when he accused me of fence-sitting, which is something that is pretty standard for me especially early game, so.

[Titan]

And Titan, I have had no intention of making this about antagonising you and I hope that has been proven in my posts where I am trying to actually play the game. that would be an insult and a discredit to yulia jue who has set this game up in good faith. I am here to play mafia.

I don't think that. I did wonder about it, but I don't think your interaction with me after that demonstrates that. Because there wouldn't be a reason for you to read my meta and look at why I'm town here if that was your intent.

I also don't think there's a reason to replace out! People play with alts all the time for a whole bunch of different purposes.

[Titan]

And I'm sorry to really bring it up again when I did, but it's something that was bugging me about Falcon.

[Titan]

I am leaning town on CF though. I still have chunks of the game I haven't read since Monday night, but what I'm gathering from Falcon is he seems absolutely convinced I'm going to read him as town. I get the sense that he needs me to read him as town. It's completely different from how scum!Falcon responded to me in Attack on Titan when I started suspecting him. The "Tammy has never read me wrong thing" is the type of assertion I think would be more likely to come from him as town.

[Titan]

I think Mastin realizes that

What do you make of his back-off based on being a sucker for your later "logical" posts? I've skimmed Good vs Evil as well so I am not sure which games he was referring to as sheeping you in post 197. And I agree that going after you could be a scum strategy after spectating on Tales of Vesperia. It would have to temporary though to snag a few townreads because an actual mislynch would be impossible.

~ F-16

...I don't know what to think of that. He will certainly attack anyone as scum and is quite capable of acting like he's considering the read. What I liked about "sucker for logical posts" is it gives the air of him actually trying to read me which is my main problem with both heads. It looks more like they decided they were going to push me as scum and is crafting that narrative than it looks like they organically suspected me and are pushing something they believe.

[Titan]

VOTE: cupcake

shinier

which head is this

Tammy.

But thank you for disabling the capslock when you asked! You know it worries me when you caps.

[Titan]

Titan because Tammy's always town (way more town than me) and when she's scum you know the scum QT is full of 'why aren't they lynching me'

Yep! Also FTFY :p

...and this is a pretty accurate summary of almost every scum qt I've ever been in.

[Titan]

Hmmm if I'm reading something right with mastin, I don't know if I suspect them more OR if I should go lol cabd game could be town. By play they're scum, but there's a tiny blip that makes me wonder when he hints about his role.

[Titan]

Ye'd have to be thick,
To think MastinSSK be scum,
I'll suck a dog's dick,
If their scum flip does come

-Nati

You have fun with that!

I guess being on the high seas makes one...unpicky?

[Titan]

Nacho just told me that he's been posting early reads in our old Hydra QT from Legend of Zelda and I had no idea

He's got Tammy early town from (paraphrasing) genuine vesperia frustration + early reaching to/sorting of notscience head
LB/MastinSSK/RG are all early town reads for him too and I don't object to any of them (although I might still call LB null).

-b

Has he mentioned CF at all?

[Titan]

throwing down a naked vote isn't really engaging anyone either, is it?

If you ask mastin it would be an example of stron scum play, therefore it was a town tell for orci. At least that's what I got from it.

[Titan]

I remember grilling Tammy
She was in quite the fright
I assume she towned it up
Which was the goal of the night

unvote

Irritated, not in a fright. I was town from the start and I really really wish that people would start learning how to read me without resorting to let's frustrate Tammy! She town tells when she's frustrated and it's funny to boot! Yahoo yippee woohoo! I'm easy to read without that.

[Titan]

Direct obfuscation (by way of actively pretending like he has no history with you) is antitown.

try again

[Titan]

so which of the ceph/DV hydra is doing the super hardcore buddying?

[Titan]

HAS LORD BUSINESS LEFT THE GAME?!?!?!1?

I lol'd

[Titan]

LB reads town.

[Titan]

here have some contribution for like.. a while

town
Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)

slight town
Mac
Lord Business
Clyton

Slight scum
Carbon Fiber (FourTrouble and F16) (ill admit though i skipped some of their recent posts... like a lot)
Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
Cupcake Panda

everyone else is null

[Titan]

Brian - I got my role pm delivered to my main! Maybe I'm special

[Titan]

@titan, I read you saying you found it odd I was coming to a town read conclusion on you faster than others who know you better. Is that an issue regarding me or them? Because I am not going to wait in a queue while people you want to town read you first get there. I looked at too many heads mafia and felt your posting there if a reflection of your mafia game is far more noticeable and dare I day 'scummy' in the tactics you employ.
Here I have initially felt your hydra trying to force a dominance where people have to prove to you they are town, but I admit this may have been a premature reaction because you aren't the only one doing it. And your challenges on people have not employed any underhand emotional threats or fearmongering.
Even the explanation of why you handwaved me away with a threat to push my wagon while a flawed idea did at least make sense in the context of how it all played out.

I found it odd for them.

[Titan]

Mastin - on iPad so not cutting down your wall but you don't get to tell me to get better at reading play while having me as a scum read.

I think it's possible you're the yin to my yang so to speak and that freaks me out, but cabd game so lol.

[Titan]

Okay I've caught up. I have some thoughts I might post tonight, but I have some work that needs to get done so it *might* not be until tomorrow.

They probably don't look much like my other heads thoughts though >_>

[Titan]

here have some contribution for like.. a while

town
Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)

slight town
Mac
Lord Business
Clyton

Slight scum
Carbon Fiber (FourTrouble and F16) (ill admit though i skipped some of their recent posts... like a lot)
Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
Cupcake Panda

everyone else is null

I take it this ying yang nonsense is why you have mastin at null - now that they're saying they're their (HOLY MOTHER OF GRAMMAR) own ying yang, does this change?

2 diff people

[Titan]

Mac - I (Tammy) typically don't post reads lists that way. :p

[Titan]

I mean, if you play at a site where people don't generally read others based on the tone of their posts, I can sort of understand why are still considering the possibility of Titan being scum. I've been told by Nacho once that he was playing with Tammy in an offsite game and she garnered loads of suspicion because the MTGS players weren't reading her based on her genuineness which is usually what most established players on mafiascum look for. But that's all secondhand, will wait for Nacho to comment on that. But if your scumhunting differs from most others, you may have different reads from people who play more here and perhaps strengths in different areas.

~ F-16

the game we played together I didn't get a whole lot of suspicion, except scum did "suspect" me. Maybe he was talking about the game I replaced in for regfan? He had quite a bit of suspicion on him, and then I did (and I actually kept my cool there!) but I was the cop and scum tried to get me lynched. But yeah, it was weird how much suspicion I generated - although I correctly nailed two out of three scum immediately upon replacing in AND investigated correctly two nights in a row, stupid godfathers be damned! - and empire and regfan were rooting for me getting lynched because they're mean!

[Titan]

Yep! That's the one. I still blame regfan >_>

[Titan]

I'm at work and briefly skimmed. There's a few things I'm mulling over.

I do wonder why mastin didn't just link your iso and call it "ragey" as there are some posts there that can only be called "ragey" if your dictionary defines "ragey" as inquisitive and reasonable sounding. >_>

Mostly I'm trying to think what I think about clyton as his posts sound kinda like wood. Wood I tell you wood!!! However, that might be play style and adjusting to a new site. Also, not really worried about a player based on logic reading me properly though; they typically do. There's something I'm trying to place my finger on though, so that will have to wait.

I echo DV's question about whether or not Nacho has said anything about them; I forget to ask that yesterday.

[Titan]

Although Nacho will probably call DV town >_> I'm more interested in that he mentions DV and what he says as I want to see if it matches my thoughts.

One day I might talk to Arthur, but he hasn't been on aim so who knows, but we're not anywhere near being in the same book let alone the same page based on the reads list he posed last night.

I still need to put together my thoughts, which will have to wait until I get home.

[Titan]

I'm not sure what to think about Mastin. Last night I briefly looked back at Anything Goes to get reacquainted with his scum game, but what I do remember from that game was in the scum qt he was like once I get going I will be confirmed town to everyone and once that happens anyone who tries to push me will be mislynched by the people who read me as town. Something along those lines; that is definitely not a direct quote and our scum qt was over 1000 posts long there is no way I'm going to get the direct quote. But I definitely don't think that the look how town I am is a town tell for him as he's just as arrogant about being town when he's scum. The way he's reading people makes no sense at all, and it doesn't feel like he's actually trying to read people but is getting reads out there. Ugh I had something else and can't remember it now.

Natidrake - What do you think about cupcake panda and his scum read on mastin?

Oh I remember - The role crumbing thing is getting to me. I'm not sure what to make of it, but the hey yeah investigate me thing bugs me too. Cabd's put godfather's in both of the last tales games and though I don't know if he'd put in the godfather who chooses what role would be shown to a role cop again, I'd bet he'd definitely put in something that could interfere, so IDK

[Titan]

Also, Tammy I feel there is something missing from your play so far.

~ F-16

There's actually nothing missing from my play so far, and if I'm the strongest town read you say I am why not ask me or point out what you think is missing?

[Titan]

Also, Tammy I feel there is something missing from your play so far.

~ F-16

There's actually nothing missing from my play so far, and if I'm the strongest town read you say I am why not ask me or point out what you think is missing?

I was hoping to ask you once you respond. What I felt was missing is that you didn't have the same presence in the thread as you usually do when you are town like in both of Empire's game and the last Tales game where you controlled the direction and flow of the game. You don't always do it as town but when you do, I know you are town for sure. I was rather hoping you would show up at some point and take charge and point out that my paranoia of you is silly.

The other thing is that your interactions with me were different than what I expected and different from any other game so far. Specifically, when I asked you about Mastin, you agreed with me and then said my posts were "reasonable and inquisitive" but it just didn't have as much conviction and also you didn't comment on the interaction between Clyton and I regarding his thoughts about you and MastinSSK being a dichotomy. I guess I expected you to comment. Also, your interaction with me reminds me of what you said felt off about Sotty7 in Z-mafia regarding how she sorted JasonT1981. I felt that you interacting with me was off in the same way since you usually react differently.

~ F-16

I said there were things I was mulling over. In the last Tales game day one there was a lull in my work week and it was the only game I was alive in. I was literally able to think about the game and post most of the day and night. You'll notice I even made mention of how much I was overposting. I actually think I was overposting earlier this week because I put off a bunch of work to post here the first day it started! You probably should have waited until tomorrow to worry about something like this because while I have time to keep up in the game during the week and can think on my feet, I really don't have the brain energy right now to think about things I want to look into until the week ends.

I'm also pretty sure that I responded to you while I was at work this morning. That means I posted in between classes what I was thinking! I told you that I was mulling over things and gave you what I could at the time. The reason why I mentioned that thing about Mastin's posts regarding you being ragey was because it was something I saw and thought about just before I fell asleep last night.

Like seriously, I'm very busy lately, and you get what you get when I have the time.

Also this is me, and that's my cat. isn't he adorable? Go awwweeeeeeeeeeee!

[Titan]

Okay, I'll wait to see what your thoughts are when you have the time and are running at full speed. And your cat is adorable, there's no way he is scum.

~ F-16

I know isn't he! And he's totally sweet and could never be scum. I'd say he's even sweeter than me (though that's near impossible)!

[Titan]

(Iirc That was my reaction to ffery, and I was actually telling the truth of how I prefer to play games. I'm extremely adaptable in games, malleable and moody. I won't always be a leader directing the game. If someone else steps into that role, I step back into a more evaluative role. UNLESS I have strong scum reads and I feel like I'm right, then I tend to push ahead. much of how I act and interact has to do with my reads, how I feel about my reads, how I feel my impact on the game is, what's going on in the game, how I feel my standing in the game is, and my mood.)

[Titan]

(In ny169 I thought it was a fairly good chance that maraca were actually masons even as I was pushing them, but I also thought they could be gambiting. The tone of both could have been one or the other.)

[Titan]

So, I think fox and hound are likely town. I was waiting to see what DV would post because though I'm not great at reading DV, I've had more experience reading him. Cephrir isn't dropping those super strong town tells like in hard boiled when he was my strongest town read, but I still feel fairly good about him. There are a couple moments when I worried about manipulation but he feels more like the way he interacted with me as town than when he was scum and made sure to fake paranoia of me here and there. Likewise, dv's posts feel pretty natural. He feels a whole lot like empires swag town game than the games I've seen him as scum. Idk people tend to suspect him when he's town, but he feels like DV.

[Titan]

To be fair cephrir had a much better scum game in faradays upick than in red wine.

[Titan]

Just sheep us and hawk could do something and so could pere.

I'm afraid that right now what concerns me about manipulation could be in my head as they're the same issue I had with you. They concern my mastin read. Do you remember in vesperia when nacho was trying to talk sense in me concerning my blind trust of greyice? Part of that was because I had no concerns of being manipulated though it's in my nature to feel that way. (I'm serious about me scum hunting attacks and defenses of me. Sometime I just don't voice all my concerns). So I did wonder but now I'm rambling because it's late and I'm near passing out but I think I was just being cross eyed.

[Titan]

I felt DV in Swagtown was more aggressive and on the attack than solidifying townreads so that threw me off for a while. There is less pushing of scumreads here. But I also read one of DV's scumgames very closely and he was quite pushy and opportunistic there but in a different way. I like most of the content they provided and I had a few moments of paranoia but I told FT that I always read Cephrir as scum and his job is to quell my paranoia whenever I present it if he genuinely believed that Fox was town (he does). I even linked him to Red Wine and NY169 just to make absolutely sure he is aware of how good Cephrir's scumgame is and he emphatically answered that he had as massively strong town so I feel pretty good about our slot's read on them overall.
~ F-16

I just looked back at swag town to see what you meant, and he did push on the lobster pretty quickly, but if you look at his entrance post there to his first real post here, I get the same freeish feeling. Again, I'm not an expert and am still learning to read DV but he's a bit more posturey when scum. He's definitely capable of being aggressive and pushy of his scum reads when scum. In gundam he pretty forcefully went after majiffy day one. Also his interactions with me felt a lot less natural, especially in the way he faked a scum read on me and reacted to the scum read I had on him. I'd like to see nachos opinions on the hydra as a whole as he has more experience with them. He typically town reads DV at least at the start but I also know from swag town he is capable of getting past his bias and looking deeper; he's also more familiar with cephrir's play so that will help. HOWEVER, I'm not really seeing a cephrir who is playing for the crowd ala faradays upick. Though I think several of us learned an important lesson that game about how people can use our expectations for them against us when scum, it was something that was driven home to others in vesperia, so I don't think he'd employ the same exact tactics again so soon. Anyway, I feel good about them and I think it's something that will solidify with time.

[Titan]

Did you seriously just post the player list?

[Titan]

What do you think of ffery's latest posts? I have a townlean but I am not as certain as I was in NY169 partly because I know there are a lot of things she can't fake when scum and was hoping to see if something pops up that'll help me know with certainty.
~ F-16

I'm leaning town on ffery. I'm not really great at reading ffery early, but after vesperia empire and I talked about how to read ffery. I don't think she's that easy to read, but he says she is. Anyway, he said that one of the ways to read ffery is to look at how much thought she's putting into the game. So, if I look at that, she looks town here. Belisaurius us on record for strongly liking scum, but ffery's been taking the initiative a lot here, and I think in scum hydras she tends to be less present, though that certainly wasn't the case for chef mafia I don't think. Now the only thing is that she's playing with people who hydra with her/play with her a lot so she could be subverting expectations but I'm not sure I actually get that feeling here. I was surprised that nacho didn't have her in his early reads though. I did like her questioning of you a few pages back; it looked like she was trying to sort you.

[Titan]

here have some contribution for like.. a while

town
Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)

slight town
Mac
Lord Business
Clyton

Slight scum
Carbon Fiber (FourTrouble and F16) (ill admit though i skipped some of their recent posts... like a lot)
Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
Cupcake Panda

everyone else is null

I take it this ying yang nonsense is why you have mastin at null - now that they're saying they're their (HOLY MOTHER OF GRAMMAR) own ying yang, does this change?

I know you now know it was two different people, but I wasn't changing or basing my read based on her role. And yin and yang isn't really the right term, just the best I could think of based on the way I interpreted their hints.

[Titan]

VOTE: just sheep us

hey boys.

come out come out and play with me!

[Titan]

I am sooooo happy Pere finally popped in and posted the player list and did absolutely nothing else. I'm also looking forward to the fact that he probably won't do anything all weekend long because it's the weekend! Maybe Monday, he'll repost the player list for us again. I was really wondering how I would know who was playing, so glad he's on top of that!

[Titan]

Hey cupcake, if you're not going to do anything, the proper procedure is to POST THE PLAYER LIST WHEN YOU POP IN!!!

[Titan]

Why would you feel the need to bring this up? Also, what is an MD post?

I am extremely lost in this game, and I blame the overabundance of meta-references that I don't understand/have time to go research. I feel like I am playing a game with a gazillion inside jokes.

Someone talk to me.

~Hawk

MD = Mafia Discussion Post.

Is this a serious Prohawk post? Because if so, what do you feel lost about. I mean the majority of the same players who've been playing in the Tales games are here, and I think those have been a good number of the meta references that have been made, though they aren't the only ones. But, I'm not sure where you're feeling lost. If this is an actual dice post then okay, but I'm lost if it's Prohawk.

[Titan]

I give it a 7/10. It's more effective if you just quote the first post. I mean removing the quote tags from the first post denotes some type of actual effort, which I think runs counter to the whole point.

[Titan]

Oh and gosh I'm sorry. It's the third post, not the first. Egregious error on my part!

[Titan]

Oh wait. I just noticed that you added to it.

In that case. I give it a 10/10 because you listed me as nice! And the only person not listed as nice is cupcake listed as cupcake. I like cupcakes. I had a cupcake the other day; though tonight I ate a cookie for dinner, so!

[Titan]

*only person not listed as scum. That cookie went to my head.

[Titan]

on the contrary, we're doing a 100% self-meta game.

Explain why you are the alignment you are in the next post!

[Titan]

VOTE: orcini ta origan

[Titan]

you didn't leave, did you?

Nah. Just took me a minute to realize you misspelled Titan!

I mean I'm a freaking god not an emperor. Thank you very much.

[Titan]

Also, Tammy I feel there is something missing from your play so far.

~ F-16

i'll pay attention

pedit: serious vote?

I'm his strongest town read Orci. So, sure, pay attention.

[Titan]

I did on mastin earlier. Not sure if it was actually correct though.

[Titan]

I mean, have you read the game yet?

Or why are you pulling out a quote in which Falcon wasn't worried that I hadn't pushed a case but that I wasn't directing town. which isn't actually something to be worried about me about. And I'm still his strongest town read.

And where who what how? Who says I push a case day one?

[Titan]

I mean, have you read the game yet?

catching up right now

Or why are you pulling out a quote in which Falcon wasn't worried that I hadn't pushed a case but that I wasn't directing town. which isn't actually something to be worried about me about. And I'm still his strongest town read.

have i made you antsy?

And where who what how? Who says I push a case day one?

if the insinuation is that i said you push a case day 1, i didn't

Can you please not quote inside quotes?

No you haven't made me antsy. I don't have anything to be antsy about. You're here and no one else is.

You asked me if I had pushed a case yet, which leads me to believe that's what you would expect. And if you're looking at the past two tales games I can see where you would think that. It's not actually a feature of my early game as day one tends to be my weakest day though every now and then I have some really good early game reads/cases wise.

[Titan]

(oh and no the vote isn't serious. I'm in a light mood right now. You misspelled my name, so I thought I'd misspell yours!)

[Titan]

I don't know what to make of mastin. I think if I were completely left to my own devices I'd have mastin as more than likely scum. I don't get his reads or the reasons he's pushing for his reads. But a bunch of people are calling him town. They can't all be his partners, so it's throwing me off. I don't know whether or not to think they're underestimating his play or I got to emotionally involved in a bad read on me to start with. There's some other things I think, but I want to see how some things play out there.

I'd be confused if your vote on me is actually serious. I think I'm pretty obviously town by this point even if for whatever reasons to start the game I wasn't. I know what I'm capable of faking as scum, and this game isn't it. You haven't set off the same alarms you did in the last game that made me think your read on me was scum motivated though; I suppose that's yet to be seen as you wouldn't play it the same way as you did last game but at a base level you don't feel the same. I don't know if last game you just were trying to needle me by calling me a rampant omguser or if that's what you actually think, but that's not how I really operate. I scum hunt the attacks (and defenses) on me but I don't automatically think scum are the only people to suspect me.

[Titan]

Slight scum
Carbon Fiber (FourTrouble and F16) (ill admit though i skipped some of their recent posts... like a lot)
Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)

talk to me

That's my other head. And he's not talking to me!

[Titan]

The last tales game runs through my head any time I listen to someone else's town read on Mastin, if that's what you mean. I'm not totally sure what you mean. Unless you mean me letting other people's reads affect my own is one thing that set me off course last game? It's actually a mafia weakness I've had for some time. When enough people say I'm wrong, I start to believe I'm wrong unless I feel really really right.

I'm not writing mastin off as town. I've been partners with mastin more than once; I know what he's capable of as scum. I'm just thinking about it some more.

[Titan]

Um why is mastinssk crossed out in red in the vote count?

[Titan]

VOTE: mastinssk

though I still really really want the boys to come out and play!

[Titan]

So I'm rewatching Dr. Who from the beginning and Gwen is in it. I forgot about that. Ffery I just like your avatar more when it's Gwen, you shouldn't change it.

[Titan]

ORC YOU ARE TOWN RIGHT?

[Titan]

Ill comment on the reads list in a bit. I'm heading out and want to read through Arthur's thoughts.

But! I just realized I've played with fourtrouble before. I thought I hadn't but something was bugging me so I checked it out this morning, and we were in jeebus' abandoned misaligned game together! I've been thinking that was GiF all this time, so whoa I've had a different view of GiF's scum game, which is funny because I actually replaced GiF in that game. Okay I feel a bit back to normal. (Fourtrouble wasn't scum in that game but was in f11 which is how I knew ft was town in jeebus' game, but yeah)

[Titan]

Hmmm

Going back to the bois then

VOTE: justsheepus

[Titan]

Saki was a player in tales of vesperia. He was hated until there were 5 players left, then he became loved.

Hated - takes one less to lupynch, loved takes one more.

[Titan]

Um the mod wouldn't tell us how many people were scum and be lying. He likes complicated set ups but the game is not bastard. And I didn't read the rules, I find it very likely others didn't either.

[Titan]

Tammy, here's who I think is town (will provide reasons later): Titan, Kagura, Mac, Fox, Breakfast, Orc, Red Gyarados, Lord Business
Scum are among: Rancid, MastinSSK, JustSheepUs, Cupcake, Clyton, ElementalHawk, Yukari, PereV

I need to refine this list a little and I'll re-read each of them to make sure.
~ F-16

As promised…my thoughts are incoming!

[Titan]

Um I kind of lied when I said my thoughts were incoming. I started an update which I'd nearly an hour away from being completed, so!, I'm on my iPad and you'll get abbreviated thoughts until I pass out!

[Titan]

Um I kind of lied when I said my thoughts were incoming. I started an update which I'd nearly an hour away from being completed, so!, I'm on my iPad and you'll get abbreviated thoughts until I pass out!

thoughts on broseidon being on the playerlist and not in the game?

Very troublesome for both him and his other head. They're both decent as scum and sometimes get lost in day one but I've also at least seen desperado not present as scum, so they're a good scum contender until they really do something amazing by this point.

[Titan]

Tammy, here's who I think is town (will provide reasons later): Titan, Kagura, Mac, Fox, Breakfast, Orc, Red Gyarados, Lord Business
Scum are among: Rancid, MastinSSK, JustSheepUs, Cupcake, Clyton, ElementalHawk, Yukari, PereV

I need to refine this list a little and I'll re-read each of them to make sure.
~ F-16

I was going to be more verbose but iPad so lololololol. I'll probably do something more tomorrow but near sleeping and on iPad so!

The people I have as town are in (kagura? - question mark cuz would like yo see more nacho - Mac, Orc, redg, maybe breakfast and cf, I'm leaning more town on you but Arthur has you guys as scum and I want to see where that's coming from, oh and I have fox as town and Arthur is leaning more m way on that I think?

I would like cupcake to stop with the caps, but leaning town there and there were some early rancid posts I liked.

My biggest scum reads right now are hawk and just sheep us.

[Titan]

BRO WHY U FEED DA VAYNE?

[Titan]

Are those you haven't mentioned null then Titan? Or lean scum?

Need more to go on for those I didn't mention.

[Titan]

Also, I would like to know why a player who has deliberately disengaged from any interaction is a town lean.

Because if it's meta to troll the game and deliberately do nothing of any value, I would suggest that's an easy meta to fake.

I didn't say that I thought he was leaning town because it's his meta to troll. And sure, this is his typical play style; he has a sense of fakeness when he's scum though. (Although I was his partner when I've seen him as scum, so!)

He doesn't feel orchestrated so far. Obviously, I need more to go on to feel better about it, but I still lean town there.

[Titan]

@ titan: you've seen me not be present as town as well, so how are you reconciling that and why do you think our lack of thread presence in the first week of the game is enough to constitute a top scumread?

it's worrisome when both your heads are doing it! There are a couple questions posed to you from rather early and neither of you answered the question or clarified. I thought the tone of your first post was really off, but kagura's post to you made it sound like that was a list of town reads, so the tone isn't as weird as originally thought.

You being absent makes it somewhat null, but still. Bro also being completely absent when he's so egotistical about his town game is really worrisome. I realize that it could also be town from you guys, but I'd like to sort you out. I don't have any great scum reads either, so consider it an invitation to town it up, so I can stop worrying about you guys and move on.

ALSO, Bro didn't post the player list when he checked in to say he's reading and that lack of posting the player list is what moved you ahead of Peregrine as a scum read!

[Titan]

Tammy, are you here?

halfway! I'm here, but my brain is thinking about it.

[Titan]

And no I'm not omgusing before anyone accuses me of that BS. But I do not believe for one second Town!Mastin makes those posts. I just don't.

You're OMGUSing.

Your face is OMGUSing!

[Titan]

If someone could engage me, that would really help get me into the game more.

- Dice

You could take some initiative!

(By the way, this used to be one of my favorite scum tells, then town!Empire destroyed that scum tell in yoloville, but it's still a less town-motivated approach.)

[Titan]

If someone could engage me, that would really help get me into the game more.

- Dice

You could take some initiative!

(By the way, this used to be one of my favorite scum tells, then town!Empire destroyed that scum tell in yoloville, but it's still a less town-motivated approach.)

Okay. How has your MastinSSK read change from 732 to now?

Still not completely certain about Mastin; however, with his role I'm just not certain that's a scum role. If it's a scum role, that means he can't actually be on wagons that can help mislynches go through. I mean this is a cabd game, so lol at something like that, but yeah. There are some things that i think are more consistent with his town game though, so I'm going to wait and see how things go with him.

[Titan]

Tammy, are you here?

halfway! I'm here, but my brain is thinking about it.

Ok, when you're ready, thoughts on Kagura would be appreciated.

This will have to wait until tomorrow. I'm about to pass out.

I lean town there though, but I'm guessing you want me to actually talk about it, so! Tomorrow.

[Titan]

But the only reason you're not seeing him as town is because he's not reading you as town - and your refusal to see it from a different perspective other than "no townread, must be scum" is worrying.

Like you're not even considering Nacho can be town AND wrong, you've just launched an assault on why he's scum.

I am worried that Nacho not townreading me is influencing me more than it should, but although his posts are townish, I don't think anything couldn't be faked by scum, and I think I'm pretty obviously considering that he's town and wrong. The problem here is that Nacho always townreads me to the point where it's become a running joke, even once when I was scum on an alt and a popular scumread. Do I think Nacho could catch me as scum now? Yeah, probably. It's been a long time since I've been scum against him. But would he not townread me when I'm town and think I'm quite transparently so? I don't think so.

Trust me that I really want Kagura to be town and prove us wrong somehow, but I think the possibility that they're scum and no one's seeing it is a very real one.

This isn't necessarily true though. In swagtown, nacho suspected you, and I think looking back at that game you were transparently town. Nacho has suspected people that it was strange for him to suspect. In chosen and Viscon he suspected Bert when in both they were pretty town.

I think the only thing that is bugging me about your response is assuming he must be scum for misreading you and I'm of two minds about it. One I could see me reacting a similar way and

probably

freaking out about it. I'd probably figure nacho was trying to mislynch me. On the other hand, I'm having some flashbacks to ice and fire when cephrir basically argued that nacho would be scum if he suspected him and tried to manipulate him that way.

[Titan]

Oh also since this is a Tales game I am obliged to do this.

CLAIM: CONDITIONAL INNOCENT CHILD FRUIT VENDOR SWITCH FONIC JOAT

If you wanted to die night one you should have left off the innocent child, fruit vendor was really all you needed to demonstrate how dangerous your role is!

[Titan]

Do you really think Tammy is able to manipulate me this easily?

Quite possibly, yes?

I wish! Did you read the way he came after me in too many heads?

[Titan]

Still not completely certain about Mastin; however, with his role I'm just not certain that's a scum role.

Stop reading me on my role; read me on my freakin' play. Admittedly, my role has had a strong influence on my play, but it's a part of the whole, not the entirety

I *am* trying to read you on your play. That's why I said in the next sentence that you cut off that there were some things more consistent with your town game and I'm waiting to see how some things play out.

[Titan]

I wish! Did you read the way he came after me in too many heads?

Except in that game
He backed off from ye,
Thinking ye were town,
After a fake AtE

I'm not saying I could never fool nacho; it would just be a hell of a lot harder than that. Also, as long as he's telling the truth and he's not one to lie about getting outplayed, while he was catching up and getting derp hammered he was writing a post in which he was reaching out to mollie and calling me on my bullshit. So yeah, he backed off for a minute, but I don't think it would have actually lasted.

[Titan]

In swagtown, nacho suspected you, and I think looking back at that game you were transparently town.

I think he thought I was town there?

I also get what you say about how he could just be wrong, and I think it's possible that it's gotten to the point where Ceph and I have built each other up to a state of extreme paranoia, but the paranoia remains, and I still think Nacho not townreading us is odd at the very least.

He started out thinking you were town, but then there was a point where we all suspected you, then we town read you again.

[Titan]

I'm not seeing where he did, but I'm probably wrong and it's not very important anyway.

As for Kagura here, I still don't know. I really want to see more posts from Nacho.

HE DIDNT.

IM A LIAR.

YOU SHOULD LYNCH ME FOR LYING.

I thought for sure there was a pouint, but he didn't. Sorry

[Titan]

Tammy, are you here?

halfway! I'm here, but my brain is thinking about it.

Ok, when you're ready, thoughts on Kagura would be appreciated.

Okay so, I'm going to ramble a bit. If I don't make sense, don't mind me, I've been swamped under a pile of grading and my brain is fried. I'm leaning town, I want to even say they're a strong town read but I'm slightly held back there. I'm not even sure why really. Arthur has them as a scum read, but he didn't respond to my questions about his reads this weekend. Basically bork looks town, and I'm somewhat dependent on others for reaffirming that read. So far ferry and Orc seem to have him as strong town so I'm somewhat comforted there. I suppose they could all be scum doing the kumbaya were not distancing dance but it doesn't feel that way. Nachos a little different for me. His tone has occasionally been stilted but he also feels more free and lighthearted. I recently misread nacho for awhile in vesperia, and in not being able to see where he was town in that game I think I've added more markers to read him with. Anyway, I liked his comments to orci, and I can see his comments to you. One of the things he told me in vesperia was that after ice and fire he was rethinking some of his biases in an effort to not get so blindsided again, so in that regard I could see him being a little more cautious.

[Titan]

Oh I had an early gut scumread on bork from some of the things he posted!

[Titan]

But idk I kinda am "meh" about the rest of their posts, so irdk.

[Titan]

I might look at their ISO... someday!

[Titan]

I'm p sure their trolling here reads scum.

[Titan]

Lord Business looks pretty terrible from what I've seen.

no?

[Titan]

I'm p sure their trolling here reads scum.

He has fewer posts than I do this game.

IIRC he has a major activity meta-tell.

That just indicates that he's disinterested with the game?

[Titan]

Is it normal for Titan to manipulate things with emotional blackmail?

I'm not seeing a town attitude towards demanding people prove they are town for the benefit of their mental state. Seems both forced and trying to stay in the upper hand.

Like this is the most loaded language and forced scumread. This isn't scumhunting although the way its asked is like hes trying t oappear to be scumhunting.

Actually no the way it is worded indicates the HIDDEN, ALT player is attempting a new playstyle.

[Titan]

I mean the right accusation if you really think LB is scum would be to say he's trying to pull the newbie card but even that I don't really see

pedit: well yeah

[Titan]

Okay so, I'm going to ramble a bit. If I don't make sense, don't mind me, I've been swamped under a pile of grading and my brain is fried. I'm leaning town, I want to even say they're a strong town read but I'm slightly held back there. I'm not even sure why really. Arthur has them as a scum read, but he didn't respond to my questions about his reads this weekend. Basically bork looks town, and I'm somewhat dependent on others for reaffirming that read. So far ferry and Orc seem to have him as strong town so I'm somewhat comforted there. I suppose they could all be scum doing the kumbaya were not distancing dance but it doesn't feel that way. Nachos a little different for me. His tone has occasionally been stilted but he also feels more free and lighthearted. I recently misread nacho for awhile in vesperia, and in not being able to see where he was town in that game I think I've added more markers to read him with. Anyway, I liked his comments to orci, and I can see his comments to you. One of the things he told me in vesperia was that after ice and fire he was rethinking some of his biases in an effort to not get so blindsided again, so in that regard I could see him being a little more cautious.

I think I might have overreacted to Nacho's entrance, as looking back there's really nothing to contradict bork's claim that he was merely trying to get a read on me/us and I actually like his posts when looking back at it objectively. This still means he wasn't townreading me though which is concerning and remains a surprise to me, and I think the only time he's gone so far as voting me before was N's game where he was scum, which I believe is where a large part of my concern is coming from. Ceph is pretty much where I'm at on this and right now I'm concerned enough about the possibility that we have inappropriately fueled each other's paranoia there that I'm willing to hold off on getting carried away ]and reconsider things later, and I imagine Ceph will be happy with this too. I think that's close to what our plan's been the whole time though, as it's not like we've decided to lynch Kagura or anything (yet ).
Also, is bork being town meta-based or based on his play here?

Well I think that if nacho is scum, I'll feel like something is off. Some recalibrations might be necessary after vesperia but I don't think I've lost my touch.

No, my reads not wholly meta though there is a sense there. Except for once, I've only experienced Bork inside a hydra, with ffery actually, and I *do* think there's a level of transparency to his thoughts but I'm not so certain he's as easy to read as he says. I looked back at we the purple which is the only time I've seen Bork as scum and out of a hydra, and I think the main thing I noticed are some tonal issues that are lacking here, which makes him more townish.

[Titan]

Players in this game who should recognize AP's entrance:

Me
Desp
mastin
Tammy
BS
ns
Cupcake
p5
Mac

Would scum-mastin be brave enough to make a push that scum-him made verbatim with this many players overlapping from the previous game?

Mastin may have been scum in that game, but his push was sincere. Read the not-town qt. He 100% believed you guys were scum.

[Titan]

and I think the main thing I noticed are some tonal issues that are lacking here

How did your read progression of bork go in that game and what tonal issues do you mean specifically?

I was in a hydra with nacho and had never played with Bork before, I let nacho handle that read.

Not interested in telling you what things by tone I think were more present in that scum game as it's something I'd like to see if it happens or doesn't organically. (I haven't seen it yet though).