A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Nautilius]

wuzzup

[Nautilius]

We're not gonna sign probably. SSK and I have different enough voices though that it shouldn't be too hard to discern us though. Example: the other posts in this thread are all SSK. I sometimes refer to myself as a friendly wolf token, too.

I cannot tell the difference between posters in virtually any hydra because I am not very observant. As such, I would like to request that everyone sign.

You'll be able to tell the difference between Elli and I, I promise. And if you can't, maybe you don't need to.

Man this sucks. Tierce, you picked a badass woomens like Tyene Sand or something, right?

might i suggest you vote for pride and joy instead of rolefishing?

Well, this actually is easy.

Unvote
Vote Kanye

That's funny, I was thinking the exact opposite thing.

um, nothing of import has happened in the game. There is a run up, that is it. No one has pinged me. oh, and what I do, I do well. I don't suck but I don't play the way you do. Learn from it or not. I don't engage in pretend reasons and blah blah blah meta. If I make a meta comment and take time to do it, it is worth attending to. I have nothing right now. 5 pages in on day one and blah blah blah.

If you want me to ping you, keep posting like this!

Catching up now, a lot of chesskid's posts in the vein of "this usually foolproof scumhunting method isn't working for me this game and I don't know why" read really genuine to me and I think he'd be more likely to bullshit something rather than just straight up admit he's struggling with reads in the game.

Eh.

Though it's not the word choice that attracts me to the wagon so much as the content

Yeah? Explain that a little more.

mebbe we should vote tammy

Nah.

Actually, let's go here. That whole post was a lot of actions over motivations.

#238 seems a lot better.

I'm guessing Andrius isn't the man of my dreams either >_>

I can be the man of your dreams.

Oh sweet mercy, really?

Really?

13 pages since game start?
13 pages in about 18 hours?
Whilst I am in v/la times?

Cry me a river.

Cephrir is town!

[Nautilius]

You never quote posts of mine

I take it from that wall that there's no juicy townread on chesskid eh?

There might be if you keep behaving so well!

I have a decent town lean on Andy's opening, but it's nothing significant. Maybe I'll feel you will feel more fulfilled by me when I'm voting and pushing scum and things like that?

Hi mollie!

[Nautilius]

Where's the problem with my explanation?

My point is that there are enough Grimleal characters in order for a Grimleal scumteam without Grimleal avatar, multiball or not.

Well, I'm not sold on you being Town, so you could try.

Which of my scumspects do you disagree with? Why?

Also also any male human who is being swayed by the fiery temptress should probably know that you belong with me

Taylor Swift would normally sway me, but it just doesn't feel right.

hi nacho!

will you work with me in this game?

Me saying hi to you means "sure, I'll work with you".

[Nautilius]

Stupendousman doing a less than stupendous job of trying to look useful

step off

[Nautilius]

>.>
first two posts of #380 don't belong

[Nautilius]

Vote: quadz

[Nautilius]

I DIDN'T WANT YOU ANYWAY THOUGH.

why not???

[Nautilius]

So, first off, we are in agreement that Andrius is like 90% faking his post restriction--mostly due to the smilies. I know I wouldn't allow such a loophole as a mod.

They were allowed in Quirkytown. I found that loophole in Quirkytown.

Zdenek

Why?

[Nautilius]

Benmage, vote quadz with me.

[Nautilius]

Hey you picked one where the answer wasn't "I dunno"

Also if you want a handy tip, I'd move macmollie and Cephrir up a couple notches.

[Nautilius]

unvote vote quadz

You town Nauti?

Yep.

Hrm...how I feel about this rising quadz wagon:

You like it? I do too.

[Nautilius]

Andrius
elleheathen
Goat on a Raft (Channeldelibird/AurorusVox)
Messiah Complex (Desperado/Formerfish)
ooba
PeaceBringer
quadz08
SafetyDance
StupendousMan
Syryana
Thor665

Which one?

[Nautilius]

he has generated no actual content; his only reads were the initial readslist, his townread on elle, and then a couple of scumreads after Thor explicitly asked him to point out some scum for him

What content have you provided that blows his out of the water? I certainly haven't seen anything.

I'm a helper!

You can probably cross out ooba too.

[Nautilius]

HEY WHY DON'T YOU HAVE A READ ON ME

[Nautilius]

But most of the scumhunting going on here is meta-based and I haven't played with a single person here -

I thrive in crowds where I don't know anyone and no one knows me. You shouldn't have a problem getting reads on people the usual way, right?

without actually self-voting (which would otherwise feel scummy to me)

Why is self-voting bad if you're still self-voting in spirit?

Tammy is town. I expected coming into this that if she were scum, she'd have used her paranoia of me from the scum game she modded me in to give weight to an easy vote on me. She didn't. That, combined with the 'happy as fuck to be town' in 104 feels very true throughout her posts.

I like this read.

I can't really read - but something about the interaction between her and Tammy feels like they're on opposing sides but only between the two,

This suggests they are both third party or Shadoweh is scum, no?

He got town points for stopping the attempted tunnel on the hydra issue that was taking the thread way off course.

Why? It seems pro-town, but not particularly difficult to replicate as scum.

[Nautilius]

That's why we start the game with votes!

It seems a waste to vote someone if you can't even pretend to believe in it while pressured.

Also, yeah, Alfred is all sorts of right about quadz being town, in case our read wasn't clear enough.

Why is that?

[Nautilius]

I mean, I guess that Faraday could just flavor the scumteam as wights, but it doesn't seem like Faraday, especially when there are definitely a couple of explicitly undead characters that could get picked.

Why did this matter again?

I don't put a ton of stock in my meta of players, but I just remember you being confident to the point of obnoxiousness. It stuck out in my head so felt it was worth mentioning. Plus, wanted to see what your response to being called out on it was.

I sorta liked this.

interesting.

In what kind of way? In a "they are both town" or "they are both scum" or "one is scum" kind of way?

I am extremely concerned that Andy is scum faking a Post Restriction, but that's :tinfoil: and has nothing substantiating it.

Seems like a pretty scary thought to me too.

Amrun leaning scum
Zdenek feels scummy

Why?
And why didn't you vote either?

ooba, on the other hand, is someone who keeps making me go AHHH every time he posts and then I promptly forget about him in the sea of Not Shitty Posts that surround his play

ooba is town but feel free to bring words into this to prove me wrong

[Nautilius]

UNVOTE:

I think that summarizes my thoughts on recent events.

Wanna join me on Goat? I still don't like quadz, but I can leave him alone for a second since there's some back and forth in his ISO.

Vote: Goat on a Raft

[Nautilius]

Vote: quadz

[Nautilius]

Andrius

elleheathen

Goat on a Raft (Channeldelibird/AurorusVox)
Messiah Complex (Desperado/Formerfish)
ooba
PeaceBringer
quadz08
SafetyDance
StupendousMan
Syryana
Thor665

[Nautilius]

Can't tell exactly what part you're complaining about but it comes down to a theory thing and you're wrong about it so yah-boo-sucks.

I'm complaining about all of it, mostly.

The reason we said "Alfred is right" specifically is because he hit the nail on the head in #353.

The only decently strong position you've had all game is agreeing with Llamarble pretty much breaks my heart completely.
Please do something.

[Nautilius]

agreeing with Llamarble pretty much breaks my heart completely.

and it*

[Nautilius]

Whats the list brobeans

scum?

ya dawg

<3

hey naut

why the quadz wagon over the ooby 1?

I liked his opening AND his response to quadz. It makes sense for him to withhold reasoning for his reads if he doesn't have strong things to back it up, and I liked the way that he responded to SSK (I could feel the same frustration behind his posts that I do when you don't get my jokes ), and I liked how he didn't try to fake any reasoning for it, just went for it. He just kinda owned quadz in his response, but the townie part was here:

- This is a misrep that makes it sound like I never mentioned scumreads before this - kanye and Shadow were also mentioned in the "initial readslist" (although Cephrir and Garruk reduced on the scummy meter in the few pages in between)

He added that bit in for clarification and it felt town to me because he was monitoring changes in his reads list, and i can see why pretty easily (cephrir and garruk both look pretty town right now), but I see no reason why he would have added that in as scum.

[Nautilius]

Yeah, we're working on it.

[Nautilius]

so goat is on your team yeah?

man i put in the extra effort specifically so you would work with me

[Nautilius]

so goat is on your team yeah?

man i put in the extra effort specifically so you would work with me

AKA I'm putting in the time so ain't nobody getting me lynched day 1. You can pretend I'm town if you need to but it will be easier for all of us if you just work with me and push this scummy group of players in tandem.

pedit: you asked if he was on my team
my only team is the team of faith and i don't got faith in that kid

[Nautilius]

Lots of fluff posting without much content. His vote/unvote of elle seemed really awkward. However, at this point it's mostly a gut read. I still have some reading to do, so this may change.

You weaken your vote with your gut read and "lots of reading to do". Why would you have lots of reading to do so early in the game? Why didn't you call it a gut read?

and i know you gotta do reading but the most important part of early game is not the reading but the talking
talk to me
show me your mafia skill

[Nautilius]

This quadz wagon is lame. ooba is better. elle is town.

hence the prideandjoy vote amirite

[Nautilius]

stup is kinda good so you will have to do better

yeah that was a lame reach out
but he's given us a couple lame posts
even?

[Nautilius]

What does any of that have to do with my pride and joy read?

you aren't pushing it and most people are calling them town
my first expectation is that you're looking for a nice wagon to jump on

Kanye is clearly town-kanye here,

You're that sure about this read AND you expect town-Zdenek to pick up in it? Why?

[Nautilius]

Town:
Me!
Tammy
P&J

so pnj is town. many of my town reads agree about many of my town reads so im pretty happy w. the game right now.

PrideandJoy - Null, Leaning Town

I guess what I'm trying to get at here is that a lot of people disagree with you but you ignore them and keep trucking along because you expect some magical revelations to come your way or something?

[Nautilius]

macmollie, has mac posted yet?

he posted the first one, didn't post anything else.

[Nautilius]

Amrun is right. The claim is not weird.

Vote: Goat on a Raft

Agrred on second. I don't think kanye is obviously town by any stretch of the imagination, so I don't see why it should be obvious.

That's not really my problem with it.

ahahahahaha

yes he has

Being as sure as I am about it, why wouldn't I expect others to pick up on it?

People normally don't all agree on a townread, ever, and certainly not so early, and certainly not so easily. But the few times everyone actually agrees on a townread because someone is just THAT town, even newscum can pick up on it.

[Nautilius]

hey hey he's a special 2013

[Nautilius]

ok? what's your point?

my point is that your expectation is unrealistic and weird but i'm pretty bored with this point so let's toss it in a lake and wait for you to do something else interesting

I might be good with lynching 1 of the lurkers, for once

i have just the one for you

[Nautilius]

It's not that he claimed Miller... its that he claimed Miller, and said its site Meta to treat him as conftown now... Which is total bullshit. That is why I am voting him.

Yes, it is. That's how I figured out he was lying. He carries the same opinion you have over miller claims, and absolutely was not trying to pull a legitimate miller claim in thread. If he was trying to pull a serious miller claim in that way, I would help you lynch him before the site even thought about crashing again.

Currently we have a bunch of townreads

What are your townreads and why?

[Nautilius]

I can pretty much assure you that Tierce is town in this game

Can you assure me with Tammy as well? I don't think I need it, but it's nice to be reassured.

Yes, it is. That's how I figured out he was lying. He carries the same opinion you have over miller claims, and absolutely was not trying to pull a legitimate miller claim in thread.

I was specifically trying to pull a Miller claim in this thread and indicated again after the fact that it was a legit claim.
I will now do so for a third time - react accordingly.

Apologies, I admit that I fucked up.
The rest of my reaction is somewhere in the realms of ignoring you and continuing to lynch scum if you don't mind.

[Nautilius]

I need you to go into more detail on the Cephrir townread since I was kinda vacillating earlier between scum and now null for him.

Information useful to you: he's a scum-preference type. He as scum is image-conscious; a few things that he did that didn't seem very concerned in cultivating image were #290, after Goat was dangling a possible townread in from of him if he behaved like a good boy and he said "I dunno why the hell you were scumreading me before but :hitoshrug:" instead of keeping up his old momentum. His interactions with us feel decently smooth so far (particularly calling us out for a weak Amrun case), and I've liked his lines of questioning so far.

#152 struck me as off when I read it in that he lists two popular-ish townreads and then downgrades his read on Shadoweh based off of one post at a time when a few people started FoSing her on the side. That read shift seemed suspicious to me because it seemed more like it was borne out of opportunism than anything else and it seemed like he shoved the two extra reads in there for padding.

I expect a slow start from him so following the grain early on isn't necessarily scummy, if that makes sense.

I read through your reasons for ooba being town but he seems like the kind of dude who's competent as scum and as such his posting seems pretty fakeable to me.

His 007 post killed me so I'll probably not lynch him yet. I do have other reasons for him being town lately, but I'd rather let you guys sort him out on your own because the wagon isn't that bad and it'd be nice to have somebody check my work since ooba is competent as scum. Still feels town, though. I would pay special attention to the end of #513, though; that was pretty cool.

Weren't you going to vote me for my stance *except* that you knew I was faking?
So...shouldn't you vote me now that you know I wasn't?

I knew you were faking the "I'm conftown" stuff and probably don't hold that belief in your mind as many times as you say it. I can also vote you if you want me to but my heart's not gonna be in it and I wouldn't want to accidentally lynch you.

[Nautilius]

Andrius

elleheathen

Goat on a Raft (Channeldelibird/AurorusVox)
Messiah Complex (Desperado/Formerfish)

ooba

PeaceBringer
quadz08
SafetyDance
StupendousMan
Syryana
Thor665

[Nautilius]

Andrius

elleheathen

Goat on a Raft (Channeldelibird/AurorusVox)
Messiah Complex (Desperado/Formerfish)

ooba

PeaceBringer
quadz08
SafetyDance
StupendousMan

Syryana

Thor665

WE'RE GETTIN CLOSE
Mollie, I'll put extra work into reaching out to you although being extra accommodating and SUPER SUPER town is usually my way of saying "yes, I'll be a good kid, I'll work with you". Nacho with this type of attitude comes very, very rarely and you better not take it for granted or else it'll be old jokes for the rest of the day.

[Nautilius]

the rest of the day.

the rest of

your life

, actually

[Nautilius]

tammy it is bothering me that tierce did not address my question about you except to blow it off and then syrlacious still...trolls.

am I being overly paranoid

oh and can you stop pestering the love of my life?
merciless trolling with minimal content is a mode of Syr-town and I <3 it.

[Nautilius]

#347 why is Cephrir town,

I expect his scumgame opening to be more deliberate, get more things done. Here, it consisted of slow sorting of the people he usually sorts, a few genuine reactions, and a "go with the flow" vote, all things which are pretty different from his scumgame.

#378 why are you already WKing stup?

Stup messaged me a little while ago asking me to join a large game so he could show how his towngame has improved. I'm giving him a little room so he can show me his progress.

#463 why is andrius town now?

Well, Andrius will not spend much time on this game for certain ~reasons~, regardless of his alignment. I believe that opening a game with a post restriction he KNOWS he is going to get shit for is pretty ballsy if he's a liar, and if he's telling the truth, the whole "using these emoticons is cheating bit" seemed like something that could get him more pressure anyways as scum but would be a sign of him enjoying his role as town. I won't be this easy on him tomorrow, but I feel good about it now.
Also please get an avatar so I don't think you're Benmage everytime you post

don't care for the note formatting as they don't feel like how a townie would keep their notes

Cephrir.

hey naut I am asking you for the second time will you plz work with me this game? if not I am officially leaving you for desp cos he knows how to work with his town read unlike some people I know who's username begins with an N and ends with an S but I don't want to point any fingers or anything.

<3

everyone knows if you make me laugh I think you're town.

With Syr this tell works surprisingly well!

I dislike how hard she's lurking right now.

Go easy on her, syrlicious. Her eyesight's going and it's really hard for her to see the keyboard.

why is ooba stricken off

He's been clicking with me in ALL the right ways.

Why the quote?

When I want people's attention, I will occasionally quote something of theirs just so they see their name. It's a habit from a site that alerts you when people quote one of your posts.

MacTammyTierceEmpireThorNastyrashaNacho vote this with me pls

No can do, he's not on the list.

I am unsure on goat people

Goat people!!!

Sheep me?

I will if I can't get more people to vote Cephrir!

Don't sheep Thor. Sheep Nautilius for a better tomorrow.

Great sex >>>>>>> case on ceph-scum

man i can't even fault you for making an inaccurate push anymore

[Nautilius]

There may have been another thing that I didn't write down but at least part of it is the fact that when Nacho incorrectly scumreads me he's usually town.

Red Wedding, Nacho-town & CDB town.

CDB and Nexus and Amrun and Metal Sonic and Venmar join the HARD TOWN pile.

Newbie 1388, Both town.

What is giving you a strong scum read on KBW? What do you think about CDB's play from day 2?

on the brit aka on CDB
but unfortunately that was a joke, CDB is town.

Mini 1445, Nacho-Town CDB-Scum
Scumread you until you claimed hider, and look, you were actually scum.

So it looks like I kicked that habit of incorrectly scumreading you on the forums, and in every game that I see you play where you have time for it, you are a strong presence and at least make an attempt to gamesolve. The fact that there's not a hint of it here, not anything more than waffly shitty stances pretty strongly suggests that HEY you probably are scum. If not, step it up like I've been asking you since the start . I know you produce better stuff than this as town.

[Nautilius]

And it's not even like I'm riding your ass because you're behind. I'm riding your ass because you're behind and apparently are getting good strong townreads and STILL aren't doing shit.

[Nautilius]

Andrius

elleheathen

Goat on a Raft (Channeldelibird/AurorusVox)
Messiah Complex (Desperado/Formerfish)

ooba

PeaceBringer

quadz08

SafetyDance
StupendousMan

Syryana

Thor665

For the record, I fucked up big time with quadz read because there was an ongoing game where I thought he was confirmed scum (here). I thought he was playing decently similarly, and it seemed like a really snug fit. Turns out I've been hitting the meth pipe too hard and read "ALIEN" as "HERO".

[Nautilius]

One game at a time, yeah?

oh well if that last game is just a point you're making or something but i don't know who karnage is.

?

[Nautilius]

It was a quote from an old game me and CDB played where we were both town and I was townreading him.

[Nautilius]

MOLLIE THIS POST IS FOR YOU PLEASE READ IT I AM REACHING OUT TO YOU WITH THIS POST

Syryana hit his good stride in about #660, I think, and hasn't lost it since. His posts after that are fucking on fire and I feel the same dancing beat that he feels in my heart so you can take the townread as one of the reads I could probably bullshit pretty hard but the truth is that it's a matter of the heart and I trust the little blood pumping motherfucker.

ooba I'm not *as* sure about but I got a good vibe from him early and so am riding on that for a little while. His followup posts firmed up the townread, and I don't think that the wagon on him is very good. I think I explained it a little while ago and read hasn't changed much from then, so I could dig that up if you really want me to?

What do you think of Desperado's opening and could you answer the questions the nice man asked you?

((Also @ Messiah in general: Why did you note that m&m's #212 was null? I noticed you didn't do that with anyone else, so I'm assuming that post has some special importance in FF's heart or something?))

[Nautilius]

all stupidity is forgiven, yeah?

there's no stupidity to forgive.

[Nautilius]

Nacho, when we say "when Nacho incorrectly scumreads me, he's town", that's not to say "Nacho never correctly reads me". To be pedantic, technically you haven't produced an example that contradicts our statement but it's OK, we forgive you (and, like we say, there may well have been another reason why we put you down as town, just that we forgot what it was).

This is literally exactly how I wanted you to respond to that.

Trust us, when we find something we like, we'll go for it, and we're still looking because it is actually pretty boring to not have a vote we really care about at the moment. But for now we're getting townreads that stick out so we'll keep narrowing it down that way. There are probably meta examples of this sort of thing happening before somewhere but we can't be arsed to find them.

This also sounds better.

By the way, Nautilus, what is your read on mollie?

Town town town town town.

[Nautilius]

Andrius

elleheathen

Goat on a Raft (Channeldelibird/AurorusVox)

Messiah Complex (Desperado/Formerfish)

ooba

PeaceBringer

quadz08

SafetyDance
StupendousMan

Syryana

Thor665

Vote: Peacebringer

One more townread out of this group and it will be time to reboot. I can't wait!

[Nautilius]

I gotta say, you got a bit more fire in you than most games of yours ive seen, nacho. I'm not sure what to make of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZw2CB_Ir_w
I'm not the most consistent player in the world, meaning occasionally I get games where I'm off, and sometimes I get games where I have both feet firmly planted in the zone.

[Nautilius]

Alright, so what happens if you get the fabled last town read? You go through the other half of the player list?

We reassess. Some of those townreads have not passed the ABSOLUTELY TOWN zone yet, so they will again be put to the test and my real town core will have formed.

[Nautilius]

Excuse me as I snipe in from the sidelines.

Nacho, did you write 738? If not, could you tell me what you think of it.

I wrote it and I think it's the best damn post written in the history of posts. Why?

kanye

Why is this?

I'm not really sure. I'd love it if someone more familiar could tell me how Thor plays scum.

Not like this.

Shadoweh

: Are you going to marry someone or not?

[Nautilius]

Thor, do you want to explain to me why you're trying to lynch Alfred?

[Nautilius]

Vote: StupendousMan

resorting

[Nautilius]

this post is gonna be ugly; it's the GRAND REWORKING one.

Spoiler: Alfred

I expected way more blazing glory from your catch up and I feel very unfulfilled =/ Please please please towninate faster.

What do you think about this? I'm currently hauling all the ass I have to haul, but this is pretty much the towniest I've ever been on Day 1 in a while.

Also, what do you think of Andy and his PR in particular? (I have meta markers for him but it's tough for me to find stuff while looking through it personally.)

So now that the first step in our glorious plan has come to its conclusion, I expect that Andy is less likely to fake the PR as scum than he is as town. In addition, I know he was waffling about staying in this game because of his sort of massflake recently, and I know a scum role PM would be a strong lean towards replacing out, so opening with something fun as opposed to something boring is actually a stronger sign towards being town than it should be. I also expect that although it's something not completely out of the realm of fakeability, so he's gonna go from a lean-town read to a GOD TOWN read when he actually gets into the game and he actually links up with people and do stuff. If he's scum, there will never be *that* moment; everything he does will be underwhelming.

I need you to go into more detail on the Cephrir townread since I was kinda vacillating earlier between scum and now null for him.

What is your current read on him? I thought his interaction with Thor was a nice way for him to become an easy townread for the unwashed masses. And if not that, then the bottom of #798 should sell you. If that doesn't, nothing will and you should probably just leave that read to me.

(especially on P&J)

Town.

Town:
Me!
Tammy
P&J
Tierce
Zdenek

Shadoweh

Scum Candidates:
Syryana
Andrius
Shadoweh

Why?

Spoiler: Benmage

It's not that he claimed Miller... its that he claimed Miller, and said its site Meta to treat him as conftown now...

Why does it matter if he says site meta tells us to treat him as conftown?

Question, where's the protown aspect of Thor incorrectly claiming on purpose? Him trying to make a mockery of us pursuing his claim.... Yeah I can see scum doing that.

I can also see anyone doing that who is a little overzealous about trying to prove a point.

So yeah... judge him on his play has still be my statement. I guess the "auto-confirm town" was a joke, and I didn't see that.

It seemed like your big problem with Thor was his auto-confirmed town bit. What's your biggest problem with him now?

Spoiler: Cephrir

chesskid and Tierce are probably town; I thought Shadoweh was town but 149 is not so good.

These are the only reads you gave me + Andrius town
Where are the rest?

I am beginning to believe Shadoweh is indeed town (again), though the softclaiming issue will need to be cleared up at some point before I can be fully comfortable. This is not an invitation to clear it up, of course, just noting.

I think it cleared itself up. Talk to me about Shadoweh.

don't care for the note formatting as they don't feel like how a townie would keep their notes,

Not that I probably have as much experience with her but I'm feeling similarly.

Why did this come up? She currently is post leader #4; what did you expect her to be?

So you're saying you wouldn't? Not that I think this is a gambit even if you're scum.

What? Thor is scum that is a scum miller?

Spoiler: kanyeknowsbest

i think you are really town but I wanna keep quiet about it =]
although i would love to hear what you're thinking on Thor.

Spoiler: macmollie

quadz vote = mac
amrun vote = mac?
#470 = mac
#568 = mac

I miss him
I wanna chat with him. Can you bring him out to play too?

Does guapo's rule have anything to do with why you voted quadz?

When did you get a good townread on Thor and why do you have a good townread on me? I figured I would look too town by now

Also, does this feel like a multiball game? I don't want it to be.

Spoiler: Syryana

Dayvig StupendousMan immediately.

Why not lynch this first?

Who's the scummiest out of our band?

Spoiler: Thor665

I don't recall too many of you being part of leading brilliant lynches of me last I checked.

Is there anyone who led a brilliant Thor lynch? I have fond memories of you dying in No Lynching Town, but I wouldn't regard it as brilliant.

In other news, I'm okay with the idea of Alfred ending up dead now.

This came out of the blue. Why did you scumread Alfred here?

Because he posted a reads list that contains so few town reads combined with a handful of weak wristed scum reads combined with not including me a player he may or may not have just indicated should die and/or had nonsensical votes. Also, he had just indicated a townread on Benmage but left him off his town list, making either this lista lie, or his advocacy of Benmage=teh townz a lie, so either way I want him dead now.

So what? That didn't seem like a full reads list to me; it seemed like a continuation of his last reads list (which had Amrun considerably lower, Shadoweh & Syryana considerably higher, and lacked SD. What did you think the scum motivation was for posting that list? Did you think Alfred-scum forgot they had the abilities they could make posts like #249, or make full reads lists like the one before? Or do you think it's scummy just because they aren't reflecting what they are saying? What do you think of the rest of their posts?

Spoiler: Tierce

[Nautilius]

*lies at feet of*
Amrun
quadz
cephrir
AVGOATBIRD
macmollie
shadoweh
tammy

*patiently waiting*
ooba
stupendousman
benmage

*snaps at*
kkb
elleheathen
garruk
alfred borden

actually this reads list is better than i thought.

[Nautilius]

Messiah Complex (Desperado/Formerfish)
ooba
SafetyDance
Shadoweh
StupendousMan
Thor665
Tierce
Zdenek

list #2
peacebringer & andrius were hard to take off. everyone else not so much.

[Nautilius]

I was about to say that the puppy was good and you were promised content from it, Nacho. But if you have me in your list of possible scum you're really getting terrible at this game.

I won't acknowledge that you're town until you give me the content I want.

[Nautilius]

Hold on, let me go through Syryana's posting history to find a gif that will accurately describe how I feel right how.

[Nautilius]

WHAT THE HELL DO YOU MEAN GOOD THINGS FROM ME

[Nautilius]

Nope, no good gifs for the way we feel.

[Nautilius]

Nautilius can you provide (obviously from completed games) QT threads where Elli has posted? Please and thank you.

I have a thread from three years ago, but I can't think of anything recent; Elli can give you those if he so feels or you can find them yourself. I'll point out that I have a tendency to be active in QT when I'm active in thread as scum, and Elli probably shares that same tendency, so the name that would be all over the scum QT if we were scum would be "Nachomamma8", not "Ellibereth".

[Nautilius]

Eh, honestly, I think your reasons for reading Andy as town are naive. I mean, even when he was scum in The Game That Shall Not Be Mentioned, he seemed to be "having fun" (at least on the surface anyway - we're talking stuff like jovial tone, etc.) and I can see him doing the fake PR thing as either alignment really. Not really concerned about his activity because I know what's going on with him but I just want to see readable content from him and I don't have that yet and I'm not going to give him a pass for it.

notable thing is that the theory under the sea is thrown out due to the replace out
andrius is back on the list

Oh and I forgot, Nacho, I just looked at your second PoE list again to compare where we're at, and you need to cross Tierce off of it on the double mister. Do you remember what I said about my expertise? This shit is non-negotiable.

she's not scum, but i'm keeping her on the poe list out of spite

no time today, but i've read through and elli has been prodded

[Nautilius]

garruk

Why try to lynch this?

@ Nautilus: why are you resorting to Stup already after you said you wanted to give them some room?

My reach out was rejected.

Holy wall wars 2013!

Tammy please stop playing like this.

Also you made me realize that this game is far too long for me to not have read it thoroughly lately but now I'm having too much fun spiting Nacho~

Better not spite me too much or you'll be dead before you know it!

15/45, I'm going to stab the next person who speaks directly to a head of a hydra.

mollie is macmollie.

he's very serious, almost formal.

??????

Hell, he's so profoundly literal this game that he latches onto my mollie troll, takes it seriously, and proceeds to agree with the dislike of lurking

Remember how Ceph thought ffery wasn't posting enough in Hard Boiled? Yeah.

quadz vote = mac

DENIED

amrun vote = mac?

DENIED

#470 = mac

DENIED

#568 = mac

DENIED

I miss him
I wanna chat with him. Can you bring him out to play too?

DENIED

0/4 correct you cut me deep nacho

COME PLAY WITH ME

I think I know what it is about your posts that bugs me in general, spacing everything out to make the posts look bigger was something I did as scum, it doesn't make the post easier to read you know. <_< This is really confusing though, what are you talking about and what does it have to do with syr being scum? I don't mean him confusing your scumbuddy for being town, I mean the random line about 'someone was kind to me once' followed by you already giving up on lynching scum (even though your thor wagon is proceeding semi-decently?) I mean would you be convinced by your own posts to vote syr?

why aren't you getting married?
why are you so thoroughly ignoring me?

maybe bring death to these (but also: to be discussed):

i wanna kill sd/stup
can you help me accomplish this?

Agar

Why?

Really? If anything, I found the replace out townish, especially the "Tierce is town though, I just wanted to be a bit more careful with things" bit -- mostly the fact that he felt the need to explain what he was doing there in his early interaction with Tierce and the result he got from it as he was leaving. I think as scum he'd have just left it at "my reads are the same as before" as that doesn't really give away much information considering the early game nature of the reads.

AGar looks town.

[Nautilius]

Agar

Why?

This post right here. What do you think of ooba?

I think he's town and I don't want him to die because he's being attacked for shitty reasons.

Benmage actually seems to be playing worse than Mollie in this game.
That is sad.

Why are you voting Amrun?

The Tierce scumread thing is a fair point but what bothers me about it more than anything is the progression into it. The rationale behind it just feels fake to me and it's pretty much impossible to see how he got from A to B.

Rationale is essentially "Tierce isn't doing shit except for pushing easy lynches, which I don't like" - I think it's a ballsy move as scum to defend two easy mislynches in the way he has and push Tierce while you are screaming and calling her town.

but at the same time it seems pretty easy for a player of his experience to fake and a lot of stuff in his posting

It also seems pretty easy for a player of his experience to avoid the obvious pitfalls you're accusing him of falling into.

You aren't really a remarkable presence?

Who are remarkable presences in this game?

What I think is going on here is that ooba is trying to redirect attention from himself to another person who is hanging around the bottom of everyone's lists--let's face it, we've been coasting quite a bit this game(although this also partially because people ignore us whenever we try to talk to people) and we are lurking in the "I dunno, could be scum" part of everyone's lists. We are an easy target for scum trying to redirect--which is what I think ooba is doing here.

I thought the transition from you being sort of scummy to being pretty scummy made a lot of sense; ooba caught up a bit, was coming back from vacation, so it makes sense that he would have a stronger read on you when he came back.

End of 513 looks townish too.

I knew you would see that.

[Nautilius]

Vote: Thor665

[Nautilius]

No.

Your last post was pretty cool!

Nacho, before I tell you who I think is a 'notable presense' can you tell me why it's actually relevant to anything? If you're questioning my alignment I would hope you'd ask something more relevant then who I think the cool people are. It's the kind of question I'd gladly answer as scum because it doesn't mean anything.

I'm questioning your alignment because you still haven't done shit; you know this. I'm asking you for the cool people for a different reason! ^.^

Vote: Thor665

?????

His votes suck, the ooba wagon is horrible.

[Nautilius]

Unvote: Benmage
Vote: Alfred

And caught up.

Unvote: Andrew
Vote: Amrun

ooba wagon sucks because ooba is town.

[Nautilius]

No.

Your last post was pretty cool!

All of my posts are pretty cool. Don't h8

<<<h8r

I could have written half of Tierce's Post 1306. In fact several posts she's made is reflecting how I feel this game up til this point and continues to make me feel better about her alignment. TET

Better?

omg. wow. I think you're more paranoid than I am...though my paranoia doesn't kick in usually until day 3 or so. But what you need is a touch stone. Though you're a hydra, so you should have some of that, but I get it. But sometimes we just need something solid to believe in. I'm town; let's try to make sense of this shit.

I <3 <3 <3 mollie's paranoia. This game she is town town town. I would build a monument to her towniness this game and I would visit it every now and then when I had a seriously incorrect read so that I can remember what true town beauty looks like every now and then. This intensely surprising to me because usually when she's this town she's paranoid of me but she's not at the moment so I'm really, really enjoying the sync up.

Overreactive defensiveness of me to Benmage considering an otherwise sedate playstyle (that she was called on and defended as what she was doing in this game).
Pair that up with getting really annoyed when I asked her about it.

People usually have stronger reactions to Benmage than they should, getting annoyed seems like an emotion unless you want to pull some caught for the wrong reasons bullshit. Weak case.

Why *aren't* you voting Amrun?

\
If I wanted to make a weak throwaway vote on someone who wasn't here, I would probably vote peacebringer for shock value.

So...which counterwagon should I be supporting then? The one on me? The one I openly disagree with on Stupendous? The kinda mushy Messiah one? Or should I start a wagon I like?
Oh, and look, you dislike me for doing that too.
Meh.
Derp tell is derpy.

SafetyDance seems like a pretty decent counterwagon; why aren't you on it?
I would love if you started a wagon you like, but you haven't done much starting, it seems. I mean, unless the case you've provided on her is a time bomb that everyone hates at first but suddenly there's gonna be this magical explosion of OH MY GOD IT'S BRILLIANT AND NOT JUST A WEAK AND LAZY CASE ON SOMEONE WHO ISN'T HERE, but I'm not optimistic about the chances of that happening.

I'd like to go for Macmollie instead.

I don't think you could find a worse wagon.

[Nautilius]

id be happier to lynch lurker "v/la for 80% of the game except she still manages to post elsewhere" amrun than ooba or sd.

I haven't seen amrun around.

[Nautilius]

Why do you think it is so real?

Before we go further, we are talking about this post, right? That was right after the point when Benmage calls you out for picking Casso with intent to receive miller, and yes, that was pretty ridiculous so I didn't have a problem with a strong reaction to it and I have no idea why you would.

It almost has already with Ceph and Kanye.
I grow on people, like a fungus.

Disturbed comes to mind.
Of course he shopped that one too.

displaced*
And yeah, he did do that.

[Nautilius]

Vote: SafetyDance

[Nautilius]

You don't think that deserves attention?

Maybe an offhanded comment, but it's not the type of thing that's worth a wagon and a possible lynch.

I'm not sure where I want to go right now.

[Nautilius]

If we lynch Thor and he flips town I'm going to

VOTE: THOR665

[Nautilius]

I don't want to lynch SD anymore.

I don't either.

@ Nautilius: Why did you end up on Thor and why did you quote Tammy's post when you did?

Deadline compromise. I quoted Tammy's post because I figured she was gonna be pissed.

I don't want to lynch SD anymore.

What changed your mind?

He sent a rabbit to us and I don't think a scum JOAT would use the fruit vendor ability N1.

- Des

Why not?

Do your homework. Life is eating me up and spitting me out right now, and it's felt in every game -- modded games, all played games. It's completely alignment irrelevant.

Eh.

Vote: Amrun

[Nautilius]

Because I don't trust desp.

[Nautilius]

Because I don't trust desp.

I don't trust agar.

discuss

I don't trust agar a lot. I liked his "thor and me are similar players" thing but i didn't really like anything else.

where were you yesterday in the last hours of the day round. why are you voting amrun? why are you not trusting messiah? can we plz discuss some of our reads and see where we are at?

i'm voting amrun cos she's probably scum + for thor.
i don't trust messiah because he's messiah. i like him better now.
sure! when i sync up with elli.

You're voting me for "lurking," when it's CLEARLY not alignment indicative,

yeah?
seems kinda alignment indicative.

[Nautilius]

If you LITERALLY think it has anything to do with alignment, and are not just bullshitting, then you probably need your head checked. That's your own fucking problem. Sometimes, it's not so obvious. This time it's OBVIOUS and cross-games of all alignments including modded games. You're reaching at straws -- why resort to that? Don't you have ANY other better reads? Who else is scum? Your reasoning on messiah is also really scant/ completely non-existent.

This was a stronger response than I expected.

[Nautilius]

This was a stronger response than I expected.

It was pretty much what your post deserved. Voting Amrun 'for lurking' would be dumb.

Why are you voting Amrun?

Nautilus is probably scum anyways, there's a serious case of the quote strips with no reasoning going on there.

I don't think you know how to read my quote stripes then

[Nautilius]

I thought you would have a healthy townread on me by now!
Hell, I thought more people than you would have a healthy townread by now.
But then I realized I have to town it up beyond all town to get healthy townreads and I want Elli to help me do that so they can be doubly accurate.

[Nautilius]

Which head is acting like Messiah?

Neither.

UNVOTE: Amrun
VOTE: elleheathen

Of those on the Thor wagon, she looks most like someone who already knew that he was town.

Interesting vote. I don't think it's any good. Also, what did Amrun contribute in her post?

irritating when you drop in after every bloody thing we say and see scum from it because you've confirmation-biased yourself six ways from Sunday over a huge impression you wanted earlier but didn't get.

This sounds town, mollie.
Although I'd probably lynch you for it if you said it to me in person.

I don't like 1956 from Nautilius at all. Reads like fear from scum-Nacho who reeeeally wants people to believe he's town.

Is that typically your scum-Nacho experience?

This was once Syryana. No longer.

Vote: AGar

Now it's CES!
I don't mind your vote.

From this head's experience, Nacho does not actually have to do all that much to get townreads.

That's true as either alignment.

Really don't like how you've had us in your potential scum pool all game but have made almost 0 effort to sort us.

Why is Amrun scummy? What's changed from your lynch pool list from yesterday?

I think you're town now.
I was sort of hoping we could Walking Dead this game and keeping you in the pool was my hint to you. I know that people can be lurky as town though, so I've just been waiting for you to be cool and town it up for me.

Amrun is scum because she's lurking like hell and doesn't know why I find that suspicious.

Didn't have to wait long... Here's one such claim

This post is fucking awesome.

Which makes you think what?

Scum being dramatic, hence no unvote.

I have no problem with scum doing this, since town do it, and scum should be allowed to do anything town do.

I agree!

[Nautilius]

I HAVE VERY HIGH EXPECTATIONS FOR NEXT AMRUN POST
ONE MIGHT SAY MY EXPECTATIONS ARE THE HIGHEST

[Nautilius]

I don't actually think I have a scum-Nacho experience. I know Nacho's personality decently well though, and I feel that he is unlikely to make a post that basically says "I knowwwww we'll try harrrderrrrr waaaaaa" when someone says "gee I'm not fully convinced you're town yet."

I said I was surprised because Shadoweh usually reads me as town regardless of any of our respective alignments, and now she's making me work for it.

So why make that statement?

Because the hydra's name is Messiah?

- The replacement post is also odd.

That's a good observation.

SpyreX replaces displaced! Welcome him to the game

Ugh.

[Nautilius]

Yeah, I know -- I deserve it!

Before I collapse asleep, anyone care to weigh in whether they'd like a humongous note dump in a spoiler and then a condensed version afterward or just the condensed version because no one will read it anyway? I don't care either way, but I'll probably do the former left to my own devices. I find preferences vary among playerlists.

long posts make me feel

alive

.

Personally I appreciate humongous note dumps. Just make it better than Messiah's if you're going to do that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_hXbiAB1lc

I will just be happy if you stop wasting time and just post something worthy of reading

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_hXbiAB1lc

So it was a comment specifically directed at Shadoweh?

"I expected you to have a solid townread on me now" was directed at Shadoweh.
The rest was more directed to the general populace.

[Nautilius]

I think Walking Dead was a unique situation that isn't likely to replicate itself--if you look back our D1 townblock is almost entirely the group of people that were most active during the 4 hour D1--maybe it was just circumstances or coincidence, but the town was really, REALLY ready to start playing that game and all of the scum got left out completely (sans Thor). I don't see that sort of situation happening here, do you?

No, hence why I backed off a bit.

[Nautilius]

I can see SpyreX quickhammering as town.
I can't see him quickhammering in such a boring way

[Nautilius]

Why did scum want mollie dead?

[Nautilius]

agree w your towns but im starting to slip on pbj

Elli told me that chesskid is working on his senior thesis.
We both like the fact that he didn't announce it.

[Nautilius]

Benmage
Cephrir
Garruk Relentless
Messiah Complex
quadz08
Shadoweh
Tammy
Tierce

Tierce is town.
Shadoweh is town.
Messiah

feels

very, very town but I need to finish a reread to be sure.

[Nautilius]

and tammy's town too.

[Nautilius]

SPYREX WHEN I GIVE YOU READS YOU ACCEPT THOSE FUCKING READS AND YOU TREAT THEM LIKE GOLD
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE STILL IN THE DOG HOUSE

[Nautilius]

benmage, peacebringer

How are you feeling about these two reads at the moment?

[Nautilius]

It's a nulltell but SpyreX could still totally be (and probably is) scum. I don't mind riding stupid hammer rage to kill a hard to lynch SpyreX-scum.

[Nautilius]

Desp, what is your townblock?

[Nautilius]

Why did scum want mollie dead?

Because no one had them as scum and they were afraid of mollie coordinating a townbloc, which she had already begun to do yesterday.

I don't think I've ever seen mollie survive past D2 as town.

aka why don't we finish the job she started? seems more important than lynching spyrex to me.

[Nautilius]

you, messiah, naut and I?

Here was mollie's last one.
I have applications for Alfred, Benmage, Cephrir, Tierce, Goat, ooba, PnJ, and SD to join as soon as possible and I'm not even done reading.

[Nautilius]

Alfred Borden - In general, Empire is easy as hell to read and Empire has taken the lead in a hydra where his partner is a competent scum player. This is a good sign. Other good signs about this hydra are:

• Good interactions with people who aren't incompetent and can read him well! (See: kanye interactions from empire: they begin kind of buddy buddy, but Empire throws himself in his way a few times to talk about reads. Tammy interactions: See his response to Tammy's hopes that Empire drew scum this round. Nacho interactions: Calls me scum! Then later calls me obvtown. But even better than that, after he calls me obvtown, he keeps. on. interacting! Empire scum if he's ever going to make it past D1 with me has to put in the time, but the time he's put in this game is so free and easy that there's just no way I could think of him as a scumbag).
  
• The Empire endorsement: reads on people close to him have been stronger than Empire normally presents them. This is yet another point towards his towniness since it's a natural progression of hydraing with Llamarble.
  
• The Llamarble Factor: Note the complete lack of posturing, attacking, defending, etc... he's been working on reads and letting Empire do the majority of the heavy lifting.

(so for all of those who needed a rock to build their games around after macmollie died, Alfred Borden seems to be your pair of men!

Andrius/AGar - First thing that needs to be talked about with this slot is Andy's post restriction shenanigans before he replaced out. I have thought on this for months and years, I have meditated with Tibetan monks asking myself if it as an Andy-scum move or not. My answer, my beautiful subjects, is fuck no. In Xenologue, Andy did manage to keep a somewhat cheerful demeanor, but his play was conventional as all hell; he didn't pull off crazy shenanigans (except accidentally quickhammering a townie, but the quickhammer was completely accidental), and he didn't do anything on "principle", which is what he did in faking a post restriction. Andy's town meta is something that is occasionally hard to nail down because he sometimes goes completely off the map, melts down, etc; but he does those things because he's confident in it and can get away with it. He doesn't follow that same route as scum.

AGar has been decently town on his own, although is "decently town" comes in bits and pieces that need to be woven together like a beautiful "AGar totally isn't scum although we all have trouble reading him" masterpiece. The biggest patch is his interactions with Thor; he opens up the game trying to claim authority in being able to read Thor (good), then starts fighting with him tooth and nail to nail him down into doing something sensible (better). Smaller patches include his interactions while tunneling; he doesn't get lost in an obnoxious battle with ooba while pushing them (most battles are saved for mollie and dissenting townreads), works to do things after ooba, and doesn't keep pushing a tired ooba wagon when he could easily continue doing so.

This townread is not complete and raging hard because getting fucked by Andy faking a PR to muddy the waters and AGar going for some creative interactions with Thor isn't fakeable, but still unlikely.

Benmage - I'd be lying out of my ass if I wasn't mostly sheeping Beautiful Universal Townread (and kaney) with this one, but I do think that Benmage is more likely town than not. Disconnected from his read, coasting, decent adjectives that make him more likely to be town. His opening Day 2 was also completely unlike what I'd expect out of him as scum who just lynched Thor D1, he was quiet and disconnected, and when AGar called him out for dancing all over the place about his awesome lynch, he responded:

Benmage, why are you not in here pontificating about how amazing you are right now owning that massive fuckup of a clear and obvious mislynch?

That lynch was a clear success. Get better.

I liked that.

Cephrir - Cephrir is a shiny townread from Nacho to you! Cephrir's scumgame is a hell of a lot more posture-y, a lot more confident, and usually pretty decent in bringing up reasoning he thinks other people will like. Cephrir's towngame usually involves less posturing, more waffling, more paranoia, far more genuine. He has town leans similar to Empire townleans that has him personally seeking me out and interacting with him when I have a pretty good record of reading him and an awesome grasp on my meta.

don't care for the note formatting as they don't feel like how a townie would keep their notes,

I've seen Cephrir several times as town pull the whole "hmmm this looks like townie notes" bit, so I enjoyed this post quite a bit.

syrlacious I was talking to you

I will only speak with mollie when she shows up. I dislike how hard she's lurking right now.

Not that I probably have as much experience with her but I'm feeling similarly.

This sort of thing also seemed pretty town. Cephrir tends to expect a ridiculous amount of towniness from certain people, and the fact that the Syryana troll went over his head is probably a good thing in retrospect.

His appeals to mollie/Tammy are all generally useless for him as town, him getting extremely weird on me when it looks like I'm posturing to call him scum was

awesome

.

elleheathen: I look at this ISO and I want to call it town but I hear shadows of Tammy in the back of my head and I can't get past my fear and embrace the towniness.

Things I like:
Back off Thor after asking for his flavor claim.
Calling Tammy town for no paranoia of her (it seemed like the predicting what you think someone is gonna do as scum then giving you a townread when you don't do it. it doesn't seem effective, but the thought processes are decently hard to think up when scum, I feel).
I liked being called town. I liked when she got weird on me a lot more.
Thought process with regards to what kind of miller Thor was in #780 was townie.
Push on Zdenek.

Things I don't like:
???
???
???
Goat's tipping point seems to be irrationality that I'm finding town.
She is very bubbly as scum.

I embrace the Elle townread.

Garruk Relentless:
So it goes without saying that there's some weird shit with Tierce where he investigated her as town and did something else and now she thinks he's town too? The role seems like Faraday-troll and I enjoy the way that he approaches figuring it out. His wight flavor analysis is weird but seems to be coming from a good place. I liked his sheeping Syr quite a bit, honestly: I feel Nat is more likely to get lost as town than as scum and so the reachout felt very genuine. I also really like the attack on AGar for "baiting the hammer"; it's thinking one step deeper than "lolhammer" and isn't that bad at all. The niggles are not enough interactions with me but that's probably just narcissistic paranoia because I've been spoiled by the reachouts in this game.

Goat on a Raft:
Goat drove me crazy until something like #753 when my blind rage against him started to see the possibility of him being town. I usually can't read CDB worth a shit unless people are pushing him decently as scum, and I feel his reactions here are confident and something that's pretty unlikely from his scumgame (although on the outside edges of possibility). His claim is a hard thing to lie about (especially with Shadoweh/Syryana/Alchemist possible third party) and can lead to him getting powerlynched to shit in a lot of scenarios. I think his early reads to form strong trust townreads (nacho, what's your read on mollie? sheeping your read on Tierce.) was a good move in a subtle way, his push towards deathrage is genuine as hell, etc. Probably definitely town.

[Nautilius]

kaney:
I liked the early RVS push. I don't think that matters too much anymore.
In general, I like the aggressiveness with which he protects his townreads earlygame. It's good stuff.
#184 & #188 were good.
prodding good townreads is also good.
the majority of this read is "nothing looks too bad", which means that I could probably flop on him at any time but probably won't. I want to have a nice long chat about peacebringer though because I think that read is off base currently and it sort of bothers me a bit that he has it.

[Nautilius]

(ftr mollie read on kanye helps loads)

Messiah Complex:

Why did scum want mollie dead?

Because no one had them as scum and they were afraid of mollie coordinating a townbloc, which she had already begun to do yesterday.

I don't think I've ever seen mollie survive past D2 as town.

I don't really have one right now, that's the problem. What I do have isn't big enough to accomplish anything by itself :/

- Des

Before I read on this I just want to talk about how this bothers me. He thinks mollie was killed because she was starting to coordinate the townblock and yet makes no effort to coordinate one himself?

I liked his question to me in #999.
I liked his uncomfortableness around the Stup wagon.
I think I liked Desp pulling the breaks on a Garruk vote after FF's giant case on him.
I think the "scum JOAT wouldn't vend N1" was some batshit crazy reasoning to call someone town but I thought it was more likely to be coming from town.
I like him complaining about me not sorting him.
I like mollie's townread on him!

Hmmmm.

Vote: SpyreX

[Nautilius]

ooba - I feel in my heart that ooba is town and I'm going to have a hell of a time letting go with it even if I go down this list and I find three more townreads.

Agar's post makes some valid sounding points.

I think scum is less likely to acknowledge the case on them as "valid", especially when they have a perfectly good rebuttal.
I thought his peacebringer case was fucking great.
His idea of why SpyreX hammered is good.

I did not like how D2 ended abruptly. I wanted to take a more active role today in seeing who I want to get lynched lynched. That involves pushing cases on those I want lynched and dissuading people from other votes. If I had thought Agar's L-1 was scummy - I would have mentioned it.

this seemed awesomely genuine

I'm sorry but that's not how the game works - I will use game events and quotes as I see fit. As someone who does not have great rhetoric, if Nautilus has eloquently put why Andruis's early play was a town tell - I will use it.

this reminds me of a cephrir town tell
i'm not sure if it applies to ooba ofc but if he was cephrir i would call this shit town

- A lot of people called Benmage town because of meta reasons. And his play neither had town nor scum vibes for me. And there were times when I thought "Those many people can't be wrong. Weak town pile?". Every single time I came close to doing that, it didn't feel right so kept him in neutral.

also genuine and town as fuck

Ooba has been generally passive, reactive and mostly concerned with his image rather than finding scum. In his first real post, he has two scum reads - quadz and kanye. He votes for one, but he makes no effort to gain traction on either wagon. A pro-town mindset would have him trying to lobby for more votes on those wagons to garner reactions, generate pressure and help divulge more from which he can gather reads from. He has repeatedly made posts which appear to deflect any attempts to garner insight into his reads, which from a town perspective makes no sense, because again - it does nothing to help gather people to your case, and thus, he once again appears to not actually care whether his wagons gain any ground, just that he has a vote cast somewhere. He's trying to make it appear as if he's involved in this game without actually being involved. He's since moved his vote to Shadoweh, who is his new main suspect, but once again done nothing to actually see if that's a viable wagon.

^this case sucks because it completely disregards the subtle ooba hints where he believes his rhetoric isn't entirely up to par^
it also sucks because ooba has made an effort to push wagons and constantly tries to sell them even if he doesn't exaggerate with how awesome they are.

quadz's case is similar and around it there is mostly cheerleading and a horrible lack of good points.
i've come close to being tempted to take ooba out of my townreads, but after that mtgs fiasco and ooba still being town as shit i'm going double down because ooba is still quite town

[Nautilius]

{AGar, Zdenek, SpyreX}

I take the AGar townread back; there's enough town elsewhere so it's no longer valid.

[Nautilius]

Andrius AGar
Garuk Relentless (Natarisha/MafiaSSK)
kanyeknowsbest
PeaceBringer, displaced Spyrex
Shadoweh
The Alchemist
Zdenek

Shadoweh is possibly third party, which makes the 6 number make more sense. I'm not gonna trust Garruk until Tierce tells me why I should trust Garruk. Kanye is the towniest out of that bunch, but not townie enough.

[Nautilius]

SM/SD aren't 100% reads either.
And I guess elle isn't.

But the way SM came at me felt town as fuck.
SD should be having juicy role results soon.

[Nautilius]

jesus fucking christ that was draining

[Nautilius]

I can't say now. I will as soon as I can.

You never did this, Zed!

When you do, you'll realize that I am obviously town.

Why?

Eh, Goat on a Raft is still scum,

Why?

I'm really confused about why so many people are saying thinks like Spyrex is bad, but LOL we can forgive him, vote someone else.

It's making me nervous.

Who's saying that? The quickhammer didn't seem remarkable to me.
Disappointing, but not remarkable.

kkb-zed scum pair seems unlikely from his iso

[Nautilius]

Oh my what a number of posts. I'm more than willing to full claim at this point if people want me too--I'd need to check with SSK, though.

I'm not sure how it would help.

Wow this is awful. Can you explain HOW spyrex totally could be and probably still is scum? You haven't actually presented anything saying why you think Spy is scummy except "he wouldn't have hammered in such a boring way." (So far as I can see, if I'm missing something, please point it out.) Even your gigantic post is full of nothing but townreads, with a bit tacked at the end that says "I'd lynch these three dudes but I ain't tellin' you why."

I started going through the playerlist in alphabetical order to see who I thought was town and who was scum. I ended up thinking the majority of the first half of the playerlist seemed town (but I wasn't finding many scumreads in the bottom half), so I started reassessing the townreads and taking away the ones I felt were weak. I don't like that you ended up pretty much ignoring the posts I did make, though. Is your basis of reading me "explaining his scumreads", or...?

ty 4 those posts nacho. im hpapy 2 talk about abt pbringer ne time

That time will probably come decently soon.

(and the scumreads were not presented as PoE either).

This is stupid.

What's so great about 753? I'm biased on this one, but whoever said scum couldn't be confident?

753 wasn't particularly amazing, but it was potent enough to make me double-take. I preferred the confidence in his poem post, or the occasional "mollie. I'm not scum.". I find CDB confidence reassuring because he's far and beyond more comfortable in his town game than his scum game; his scumgame usually ends up being very under the radar, very quiet.

I'm sure the claim is true, but I don't see why I should care- scum would want town to know a third party exists in all probability.

It's sort of a useless power for scum to have, don't you think? And not useless in the funny troll way, either.

I don't know what "deathrage" you're referring to. And what's left after that doesn't seem like enough for a townread to me.

#2253 is the deathrage reference.

Naut literally spent half of that span of posts explaining why 3 of his scumreads are town. My head hurts from even trying to comprehend what the fuck is going on there.

Where did I do that?

Current reads

This post was fucking horrible.

By the way, I'm pretty sure you forgot to mention your quadz read and I don't really get your Shadoweh read. Want to talk about these a little more?

When I have another posting rampage, sure!

@Nacho et all:

What needs to happen to make my wish come true of the first group lynching the second group. HELP ME HELP YOU.

Dreams of scumflips dance in my head but that's not gonna happen until I start sorting things out a little more.

[Nautilius]

Does me not being done with explaining my reads change that at all?

[Nautilius]

Spyrex claims to have a role that interacts with hammers

This was weird. I don't think SpyreX needs HAMMER POWER as an excuse to quickhammer, and his predecessors crumbed nothing of the sort.

Did you say you weren't done somewhere?

Reading and typing things out are very different things.

Your argument here hinges on "SpyreX spent 4+ years quickhammering just so he could troll one game in 2013."

You do realize that, right?

If you do something as town, you can do it as scum.

slightly town.

Slightly town?

Fuck off.

It was

I don't really think Spyrex is scum either.

Agar maybe. I am not sure what to do

Get into the game or start sheeping? That would be my recommendation.

[Nautilius]

I'm saying I think the claim is suspicious.

[Nautilius]

um, nothing of import has happened in the game. There is a run up, that is it. No one has pinged me. oh, and what I do, I do well. I don't suck but I don't play the way you do. Learn from it or not. I don't engage in pretend reasons and blah blah blah meta. If I make a meta comment and take time to do it, it is worth attending to. I have nothing right now. 5 pages in on day one and blah blah blah.

My experience with Peacebringer is that he always finds something to pick up on, so the fact he didn't find anything here is strange.

I was not shaking my head at Pride and Joy but rather the whole PnJ run up on a joke. Lack of humor and lack of tolerance for shtick. Just a bunch of knee jerk votes. The end part was just pointing out you had past exposure to my play.

Notice no reads, still.

???

i voted him cus it was a bad post and i wanted to start gathering some reactions and get shit rolling. i poked you because your vote was bad and i wanted a reaction. i now have a multitude of townreads stemming from the former and a townread on you from the latter. dwi

I am calling you a hyprocrite. You engaged in the same kind of behavior I actually just engaged in... you are the one that said his 1st post pissed you off, now you are calling it reaction fishing...make up your mind...

First attack, doesn't vote. I don't find that Peace is particularly stingy with his vote, ever.

vote KKB

Finally moves, and the vote is pretty useless. He doesn't push like I'd expect him to, he just kinda sits on an easy target (you make yourself look that way because of posting style, kanye) and then later moves to a different one. Replace out was weird for the reasons ooba noted.

lots of players seem town but I have a big weakness in giving rhetorically skilled players town reads too often so Im being more cautious
I also think lots of players are using overly ornate language to justify townreads that really arent that solid

I didn't like this.

More importantly though: I have role-reasons for wanting that hammer. I also want this one.

Neither of his predecessors so much as hinted at this, which I find suspicious. Hammer powers are something that gets crumbed an obnoxious amount, and when town usually results in you asking for the hammer. As scum, you usually get it in sneaky ways like this.

@Nacho et all:

What needs to happen to make my wish come true of the first group lynching the second group. HELP ME HELP YOU.

I don't like that a majority of his time has been invested in defending himself versus burning the bad people. It's easy as scum to defend yourself from people going after you because of a quickhammer because reasonable people will see the bad arguments against you and they will feel you're town because you're generally stomp-thwomping the arguments around you, and inviting the bad attacks is a fine investment because you can get the more influential voices on your side. What I want to see is his thought processes on other people developing and I don't see anything of the sort in his play so far which sucks because Elli and I wanted Spy Spy to be town.

[Nautilius]

Sheeping Elli on ActionChessDanKid. I like the thing about the senior thesis tho.

Quadz: I like quadz! Before I ISO him, I mostly like the push on me. It feels like he got conviction, one of his reasons is something that makes sense from what town-quadz doesn't like (the whole "worried about his image thing, maybe lack of scumreads?), and I can't really see many worlds where quadz sits down stubbornly on a one-man me wagon as scum despite a few people telling him to cut that shit out. It feels like he's not budging until he gets what he wants, which is really cool and stuff. I liked his opening a lot for meta reasons (mainly him seeming comfortable as fuck), although I was uncomfortable when he fell off the map a little bit somewhere in the middle.

[Nautilius]

Ok, so here's about the fullest meta report I can do in the limited time I have left (and considering Safety tends to flake a lot as both alignments):

TOWN: The Wire Season 1, Lord of the Rings Mafia
SCUM: Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, Open 502
(You can also add the Hidden Temple game here if you wish, I didn't put it on because mollie's already mentioned the salient points.)

As you can see from combing through the games, Safety does get into self-defense mode a lot (#468 from The Wire -- "I come back and find I have to defend myself against a vote and post I made eight hours into the game. Sorry if I'm a little distracted?" -- I think sums it up pretty well). I do think, though, that there's a huge difference in the way he reacts as town vs. the way he reacts as scum. As town, he tends to get a lot more emotional in his language and I get the sense that he takes consensus suspicion very personally (which I consider a towntell generally, but especially so in his case). There's also way more nuance to his defenses as town, as he's able to break down his actions in massive detail. As scum, I get the impression that he struggles to come up with things to say and he gets very dismissive/handwavy with accusations but there's no actual substance or emotion behind it.

Take a look at what he's doing here: the cynical "go fuck yourselves, I'll be around to say I told you so in the post game" reaction and the emotion behind it fits in strongly with how he reacts as town. There's no awkward filter in place here and it feels like he's just speaking from the heart w.r.t. how he feels about the game. There's a sort of undercurrent beneath all of his posts where you can get the impression that he's taking his wagon and the suspicion against him incredibly personally. Also take a look at #1646 --

the fact that he went out of his way to go and look into one of his own past games in some detail to refute a meta-based argument brought against him is actually a pretty big towntell and way above what I'd expect from him as scum.

So hopefully, you can all see where I'm coming from on this. I'm going to bed now and while I think I'll be around at deadline, I can't guarantee it. So peace and let's hope for a D1 scum lynch here.

P-edit: Ceph, read what I just wrote.

This is pretty much the reason I find SD town.

[Nautilius]

Man this sucks. Tierce, you picked a badass woomens like Tyene Sand or something, right?

I actually liked the Tammy/Tierce reachouts early with the marriage power, and I liked the attempt to marry Empire.

Garruk, that elle wagon is gonna fall apart. Come play on quadz where it's warm and he's stopped posting.
It looks like it's slowed down now that the initial rush of spam posting is over. Maybe just 25 pages!

This is a hell of a lot lighter than Shadoweh-scum posting in Wingate.

Also I don't feel the need to clarify my role any further. I wouldn't marry you even if I could, it would be like living with a religious conservative.

The flippant tone wrt most things is not hard to love.

Look dood, apparently I'm the only person on this page that doesn't hate you, so you should listen to what I'm saying. The part where you're not claiming flavor or what your joat abilities are isn't going to change anyone's minds. Your powers don't get shown when you flip, so even if you're town and you get lynched, we really need to know what you've got. I don't think it looks townie when a person in a no-flips game is trying hard to avoid saying what his role does. :/

I liked this reach out a lot.

Why don't you trust Desp? mislynch seeking wise, I don't think 'i got a rabbit' would make me care enough to stop pushing someone.

I thought this was an excellent point.

It doesn't help that by now I just assume I should have a healthy town-read on the Nacho half of you, but I don't feel like you're going anywhere. Normally you're just more driven. A leader. You feel like you're hanging back and it makes me edge slowly away from your posts hoping you won't notice me. Even posting my suspicion of you makes me feel like I need witness protection.

I also like this.
Although it reminds me of how much Shadoweh shat on me and mollie and that makes me sad

Why couldn't he have been town faking to replace out?

I don't think anyone would ever assume that or ask that question.

[Nautilius]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
this is what I leave for you all wrt stupendous

[Nautilius]

Syryana was town but I don't think that matters much.
Tierce/Tammy are very strong scumreads.

[Nautilius]

Alchemist hasn't done shit but he's probably scum.

[Nautilius]

it's time to talk about peacebringer?

[Nautilius]

The main thing about Zdenek is that he hasn't really done anything this game. #850 is the best post that he's made for the whole game, but it's sort of what I expect from Zdenek regularly. There's no effort to really figure anything out, and he's just seemed detached the whole game. I kinda like some of his strong responses, but it's not enough to make up from the lack of anything from him.

Nacho, did you write 738? If not, could you tell me what you think of it.

This interests me, but I can't call him town for it unless he actually explains it.

Tierce maybe scum for attacking and defending Stup. in the same post.

This was a very weak reason to find Tierce town.

His reads list might as well not have any reasons because it doesn't explain anything about his reads at all.

[Nautilius]

4 games, kanye.

[Nautilius]

{SpyreX, Zdenek, The Alchemist, AGar, Goat on a Raft, Garruk Relentless}

this is pretty much my kill group in order

[Nautilius]

I'm not as confident in Goat and Garruk because the main things clearing them were role-related reasons and I keep getting reminded about role related reasons to clear being bad in these specific scenarios. I'm also having trouble finding people who I feel good about calling scum elsewhere and I trust myself more on reads than I do on role shit at the moment.

[Nautilius]

They're not scum I was just teasing them since I'm expected to read them right/empire will freak out.

[Nautilius]

I'll look into your game together, kanye.

[Nautilius]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Actually, glance at that. There's his ISO from one scumgame where he replaced out.

[Nautilius]

yes, however http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30871

i think this is an issue for him that transcends alignment.

Sure. But the problem is I think he comes off as genuine as both alignments so I'm not comfortable clearing him based on genuine D1 play.

Tammy, do you think scum-SpyreX comes in and says "I would do it all over again even if I had read every post?" re: his hammer?

Yes. I sure as hell would. What other position do you think he would take? "Sorry guys that was actually a horrible thing I did?"

A group feels I'm scummy for putting Amrun at L-1 to bait a quicklynch. Another group feels SpyreX is scummy for quickhammering.

And there's a third, unacknowledged group that thinks peacebringer was actually scummy and SpyreX hasn't done anything close to helping dispel those bad feelings. There's also a bunch of townies floating around everywhere and his slot is in the bottom of the bottom half of "reasons to call this person town".

nautcho would you be greatly opposed to lynching zed today over the spyman? how big a gap is there between the two in your Kill Order

I wouldn't be horribly opposed, but I'm very very reluctant to move from one scum to the other when spyspy keeps showing up and disappointing me. Like I read ahead and noticed his "oh put Goat in town if I die" but I don't need him to die to see Goat is town I just need him to be town and then explain it to me. I might be willing to let him go another day based on your peacebringer read, but spyspy going another day based on an endorsement does not leave me feeling awesomely or like I'm racing towards an excellent scumlynch.

We're willing to compromise on Zed. This hydras been plagued by one head being on vacation and having inner turmoil between Agar vs ooba.

You've been dealing with your inner demons for too long. Time to put your chips on the table and make a dive for it.

defending me when people are clamoring for blood doesn't make a lick of sense scumwise.

Why not? I'd defend you in a nacho-scum, SpyreX-town situation; it's likely that you'll be able to throw the wagon off you because you're SpyreX, and then I wouldn't be in the dog house when the tables were turned. I much prefer kanye's defense of your slot of AGar's; AGar's is attacking the quickhammer = scum logic which is obviously wrong but kanye is actually going "no, the slot is town".

I feel like your first point is really holding me to too high a standard, and I find it irritating that you are pushing this bullshit today, while voting for the same person I am.

I don't think I'm holding you to too high a standard and I'm insanely depressed if you think this game is on par with your normal towngame.
And sorry for not thinking there might be distancing within the scumteam? Do you think the SpyreX wagon is full of townies regardless of SpyreX's alignment?

Oh and Quadz is fence-sitting scum.

What's he fence-sitting about?

Because linking myself to a scum partner this strongly is advisable in a large. I talked about all the other possible wagons today that I thought were\are a mistake - if enough people move their votes away from these - maybe we'll finally lynch you.

Yeah that SpyreX quote was bullshit.

Zednek is only scum this game if his scum game is appalling.

I don't think he manages his image that much as either alignment, honestly.
I only have experience with Zdenek's towngame but this is a far cry from anything of the towngame I remember.

How did Goat end up on this list though?

I felt a hell of a lot more confident calling everyone else town; the strongest piece of evidence for Goat being town was, again, the censor thing which I felt was indicative of his alignment regardless of the roles before alignment thing, but in the end it's just not enough.

[Nautilius]

There's the option of just saying "It happened, deal." or something to that effect.

Yeah I don't think that response was particularly ballsy coming from SpyreX.

That group has been such a vocal minority, I wasn't aware they existed.

Well, it's a wonderful time to meet you, then. Why do you think SpyreX is town again?

Doubly so when you've got a halfie about me being scum.

I can happily listen to your towncases when I have a halfie about you being scum. I'm one of those crazy people who will sometimes listen to people even when 100% convinced they are scum, especially when that person is SpyreX!

I only have three objections: AGar, lack of Messiah, and the order.

You're not gonna be able to convince me on Messiah quite yet.
But orders, AGar, I'm all ears.

Who made this post?

ActionDan.

No I don't.

Then why do you think you're cleared by your push on SpyreX?

The same ultimatum goes for you, Syryana. Don't care what are your RL conditions. Shape up or GTFO.

Syryana isn't in the game currently.

My sleeping pill is kicking in, but I'm just posting this here because I wanted to remind myself to respond to this and your zdenek read. I'll do it tomorrow.

Okay!

Aside from that, I'm in general agreement with your townreads though

Talk to me about those townreads that dwell in my bottom 6.

Improvement from Nautilius here (ACTUAL SCUMREADS WITH ACTUAL REASONS WOW) though I am somewhat torn. The catchup progression seems legitimate when looked at in its totality, but it just seems totally bizarre that he wouldn't focus on his scumreads first.

Townreads are more fun. And if I tell myself I'm going to do something in alphabetical order, I'm going to do it in alphabetical order.

That wasn't really as interesting as we hoped.

Your catchup post makes me feel better about the read I have on your slot!

[Nautilius]

Your catchup post makes me feel better about the read I have on your slot!

you're scum as fuck =]
mollie was completely right about you!

[Nautilius]

Did you read those games and if so do you agree or disagree?

I skimmed those games.
I think the cheekiness/aggression is what stood out to me the most with regards to his meta. I read the scumgame and was involved with him in The Walking Dead where he pretty much got completely overwhelmed, then speedlynched. He ended up PMing me sometime after this game asking why he got lynched and if I wanted to play another game with him to show that he's a capable player; I can't imagine that player coming in this game, rolling scum, and being as aggressive as he is in this game (particularly with the attack on me).

I will out some of what I know, or think I know.

I don't think that the wagon is particularly awesome but eliminating some of the mystery would be pretty fucking useful.

[Nautilius]

it's not Syryana

[Nautilius]

Vote: The Alchemist

[Nautilius]

I don't. Frankly, I know that you know that I am someone you could get lynched if you wanted, so I just find it irritating that you are voting Spyrex, who is a decent lynch, but pushing this case on me at the same time.

Voting/Pushing SpyreX while also expressing that I think you're scummy since I was going through the playerlist earlier.

Your problem is that it's assuming The Alchemist is

not

Syryana. I like your logic, but one of the base arguments for it is wrong.

Well if he's Syr he's still been alignment shifted or something probably, I guess. I agree he's probscum then. In any case, we should clear this mystery as soon as possible.

I hate this post.

I liked the conviction of his "Fuck you I would've hammered regardless" today, even if the hammer itself was bleh.

This is literally the only reasoning you give for SpyreX actually being town and it sucks.

it's not Syryana

Do I get to point and laugh at you in the postgame?

You can point and laugh at me now, if you'd like

His lurking is annoying, but I still believe that he's town from his the posting in the neighborhood.

You don't think that there's a chance of his alignment changing?

When and why did you change your mind on us? Why does the gif solidify it?

He's joking.

I changed my mind on them a little while ago, and I explained why and everything. I don't think that they're obvious town anymore so you should probably run me back through your read of them, Tierce.

[Nautilius]

Did he know what would happen after he disappeared?

[Nautilius]

Did he know what would happen after he disappeared?

I don't know what you mean. He claimed to me, but he didn't say his alignment changed with disappearing if that's what you're asking.

As in did he know what powers it would bring/etc?

[Nautilius]

Nope, still broke.

[Nautilius]

You didn't explain why we're "totally scum", just why you apparently couldn't call us town anymore. You haven't really commented on our actual play at all, explained why we're more likely scum than town, and it seems weird that you could seem so sure before and not now even if you suddenly decided that our declaration of a census is null (and, also, can you explain why it's null? Because we definitely wouldn't have said anything if we were a scum census taker. We'd have either had to seriously clue in the town [we wouldn't want to do that, even to be seen as a census taker] or give a wrong census [which could potentially bite us in the arse]).

Your role isn't enough for me not to call you scum (town doesn't get too much benefit from knowing the number of scum, you wouldn't lie). Your actual play has townie sounding points, but not enough where I'm even close to being comfortable with your slot. And if it's weird, I guess you should probably start reading me as scum. You are the towniest of all the scumreads though, so you still have plenty of time to kill me during the night and not have it trace back to you.

[Nautilius]

Vote: SpyreX

[Nautilius]

Nautcho, what about Tammy's explanation switched you off of Alchemist?

This doesn't really feel like Syryana's scumplay; I can't really see him showing up in thread just to give Tierce the middle finger and then disappearing back into the dark inky abyss.

They aren't my strongest Townread by far, and probably fall among the chaff that needs to be culled if the game isn't over at some point, but I don't think they're scum.

As long as you have this perspective, you're still alright with me.

[Nautilius]

He did it in HunterxHunter and I had to protect the fuck out of him there.

[Nautilius]

Could you claim?

[Nautilius]

Could you claim?

I could! I don't particularly want to, though.

Please claim.

[Nautilius]

Is Valar Morghulis infinite?

[Nautilius]

unlimited
or whatever

[Nautilius]

hey guys let's lynch SpyreX.

[Nautilius]

i know it sounds crazy
but let's just lynch him

[Nautilius]

i know it sounds crazy
but let's just lynch him

This brings me back to Hunter Hunter...

Defending your shittalking lazy self brings me back to Hunter Hunter too >.>

[Nautilius]

come on kanye

[Nautilius]

believe in the mobster barney abomination that is me

[Nautilius]

"I have lurked through the entire day to the extent that people thought I was a different player, but here, have an unproven claim!"

unproven claim?

[Nautilius]

Nacho, what do you think about Quadz?

I thought quadz was town earlier but he's been throwing out moonlogic the whole game.

[Nautilius]

He usually has a below the surface coast scum meta, not anything really like we've seen here.

[Nautilius]

scum as fuck
if you gave me a coin and i knew his true name i would have you kill the shit out of him

[Nautilius]

tammy please stop calling ooba scum

[Nautilius]

stop

[Nautilius]

oh yeah zed
we could also make zed dead

[Nautilius]

basically as one of {SpyreX, Zdenek, AGar} die today i'll be a happy mobster barney

[Nautilius]

the coin is pretty provable
he sends it to someone
they kill someone

[Nautilius]

i also note commute + no kill when syryana was a pretty likely target for N1

[Nautilius]

well i'm talking about lynching people atm

[Nautilius]

By the way Nacho, the coin thing only works on flavor names. So we couldn't just, kill Zdenek. Or whomever.

you can kill AGar. He's Greywind, the wolf thing.

[Nautilius]

i also note commute + no kill when syryana was a pretty likely target for N1

otoh it stated that syrana was untargetable @ the start of night. i diont think it makes a lot of sense to think scum targeted him after that.

[Nautilius]

also, do you know tammy's flavor name?

[Nautilius]

i also note commute + no kill when syryana was a pretty likely target for N1

otoh it stated that syrana was untargetable @ the start of night. i diont think it makes a lot of sense to think scum targeted him after that.

i mostly just think that "unprovable" was a dumb thing to claim when the coin is like a fruit vendor and the kill is pretty confirmable when the person receives a coin and faraday asks them who they want to kill

[Nautilius]

stop

How many killing roles do you think there are?

do you think he's lying about being a killing role? because that's a stupid thing to suspect him to be lyin' about.

agree w. this but dont know htat it will influence my read on quadz. does it for you?

not really no

[Nautilius]

Not really.

[Nautilius]

oh god were you gonna marry me and kill me???

[Nautilius]

Which would be really cool and should have been coordinated beforehand for awesomeness's sake, but noooo.

[Nautilius]

But I don't think it means one of those killing roles is scum.

[Nautilius]

And I would rather Syryana give his killing coin away before he dies.

[Nautilius]

going nuts as we speak

[Nautilius]

I am prepared to be unsurprised when there is no coin.

What happens when there is a coin?

[Nautilius]

Natirasha, why aren't you voting SpyreX?

[Nautilius]

Natirasha, why aren't you voting SpyreX?

I don't want to lynch SpyreX, rather Agar or at least Zed. I'll join before deadline if needed.

Why don't you want to lynch SpyreX? And don't you think AGar is a bad lynch if he's going to be shot down the line?

[Nautilius]

I have a very bad feeling that I will be the one killed by the coin.

It's probably going to be AGar.

And I have been satisfied with SpyreX's responses at this point in time.

No, don't give me this subpar shit. Why do you think SpyreX is town?

[Nautilius]

Roles! Alignments! Geeerrreuuugh

I DON'T think, jesus fucking christ man.

Okay. I don't have any real reason to think SpyreX is town moreso than any other random fuck in this game.

Cool. Vote him.

[Nautilius]

Hey Nacho, if you were me, who would you give your coin to? Yourself excluded.

Tierce, probably.
Alfred and Tammy are both solid choices though.

[Nautilius]

I think quickhammering him would be hilarious, but hilarity is not always optimal.

[Nautilius]

Why is SpyreX town?

[Nautilius]

hey ellienacho you guys are town this game right?

do you think the first person on my scumteam that i would bus would be fucking spyspy
hell no

This is such bullshit deflection.

Vote: The Alchemist

I THOUGHT SPYREX WAS A GOOD VOTE

Don't really believe in this lynch, but frankly there is very little I believe in right now. Will be hammering in two hours.

Syr, coin goes here or I will look sternly at you.

Is it my turn to point and laugh? I mean, I won't, but.

ooba aren't bad so I dunno right now.

Ooba is town, you ass.

im uncertain of my stance on zed now. of particular interest is that spyrex was pushing if zed scum then oobas scum really hard after his wagon had reached the point where his death was pretty likely. im sippin the wine hard as hell.

Trust me on ooba please.

VOTE: Zdenek

He needs to die. I'll be back in action with more tomorrow when I'm not nursing a brutal hangover (currently @ 8 hours and counting. Fuck tequila.).

You can also explain why you found Spy for reasons that have nothing to do with his quickhammer.

Vote: Zdenek

[Nautilius]

whats your ooba stance? i ampretty sure hes town but i was wrong abt spy !

i am pretty fucking sure he's town and only got surer with that sxc scumflip.

does nething in spys iso make u think zed is more likely to be scum @ this point naucho ?

i dunno, haven't looked through his iso yet. probably won't.

No way Zdenek is scum with Spyrex... and didn't bus him at the end of yesterday.

This is a good point, but I still prefer to read the replacement.

That's literally the entire crux of that read right there. His posting on D3 was purposeful. He managed to keep himself engaged in the light of the wagon. Those are things I expect town to do, not scum.

bro this fucking sucks

Prideandjoy, I think the Miller claim is genuine. However, I can see where some would disagree. Why is voting a claimed miller bad?

Tammy do you think elle hardbussed Spyrex to avoid scumhunting given Spyrex was in a policy lynch situation? (supposing that Spyrex hammered without a claim with only reading ISOs)

I don't understand what parts of the game you read and what parts you didn't.

Is Tierce town?

Seems so.

Come to think of it

Why is chesskiddra still alive? That shit needs to go

They're still allive cuz they suck + still probably town.

Oh Nacho remind me to talk to you about Garruk when I get a chance to look back at something.

They're still scum?

[Nautilius]

You'll probably nightkill me before I come around to lynching you.

[Nautilius]

You'll probably nightkill me before I come around to lynching you.

Sadly, for once, you're actually wrong on my alignment.

Maybe! That's why you're in the lower tiers of my scumreads.
Maybe even lower than Goat on a Raft!

[Nautilius]

Wanna stop fucking pussyfooting it?

I'm doing something else atm.

[Nautilius]

VOTE: SatefyDance

He voted Thor and Amrun and cannot clearly communicate his night actions. Why wasn't he lynched sooner?

Because he's town, mostly.

SSK checking in here. In addition to SD's lack of clarity regarding his claim, this hydra also thinks he's scum because of the difference of his play as compared to Lucid Dreamers Mafia. In Lucid Dreamers, he was way more active and making cases more on everyone. And you know, so explicit with how roles worked that he actually made a table of all the actions that had been performed. So in conclusion

Vote SafetyDance

-SSK

Put Nat back on the line, please.

he knows what a ninja is. and he cant decide if he tracked nautilus or not.

I have a lot of trouble seeing scum having trouble making a decision like that, especially with coaching from scumbuddies.

So the answer is no. Gotcha.

Nautscum is probably a thing.

I think you are scum.
I am voting someone who I also think is scum.
The person I am voting has a bigger wagon.
Why am I supposed to vote you again?

[Nautilius]

The group would not have been confused until today when SD

This is wrong.
The group would say "use your Fruit Vendor N1. Roleblock Nautilius N2. Track Quadz N3."

[Nautilius]

Naut, you act as if it is so simple. Why doesn't SD just say that with his results in a nice concise format with no garbage?

Why doesn't he do that as either alignment?

That's not as bad as I thought it would be. Does your target know that you roleblocked em?

When you started with the "I need you to kill me shtick", I thought she did something absolutely horrible. Making Tierce a Vanilla Townie is not incredibly pro-town, but it's incredibly hilarious and I'm willing to let you live on those merits alone.

That'd be so boring. Be a dear and grow an independent streak.

You could also not bother being independent and just sheep me.

[Nautilius]

Whether I got ninja or strongman mixed up in the initial post is irrelevant to what I used N2 and what I claimed I used. It has never changed.

No, it clearly has.

Well that was unnecessarily hostile.

You confused Ninja with Strongman, your brilliance.

Pfft. More than happy to volley snarky bs back with interest.

Ninja's avoid detection, which is how Naut would avoid being detected doing anything night 2.

*sigh* basic mafia theory, man. You out tracks if they give you pseudo-guilties, not pseudo-innocents, unless another claim contradicts your results or it's fullclaim time.

Curious to see how he responds to Garruk's question.

I love how everyone's a hindsight expert and no one said boo D3.

I don't need to respond to GR, since he's being stupid because there's no confusion or contradiction.

Yesterday was Day 3. Today is Day 4.

Therefore day 3 IS yesterday and yesterday was when I claimed to have blocked Naut D2.

Can't have visited Naut and Quadz on the same night, they would be kinda impossible.

This is all I really need to point out, we need to lynch him ASAP.

Tammy, I read this post and all I hear is this.
Runaway from him tammtrum. Get off that wagon ASAP.

[Nautilius]

And then after AGar's name is fed to the wolves and we burn the Zdenek slot, we lynch Goat, who will flip scum.

[Nautilius]

Have you IDed everyone?

[Nautilius]

Tierce, give me 5 scum picks.

[Nautilius]

Of course.

[Nautilius]

I am a one shot night stop. I stop all night actions on the night I bold a particular phrase. All investigative roles can verify because they get a result with my flavor name.

where do you bold your phrase?
also, use it tonight or die.

[Nautilius]

Vote: AGar

[Nautilius]

Nacho, it's perfectly understandable that you have limited access, but where is your hydra partner and why is he not posting in this game?

He's busy.

Tierce, do you think quadz is the cop?

Yes. Who are you killing?

ut not in such a fashion that it's relevant or I care in the slightest. This claim implies pretty strongly that SD is scum if it's true, so I will probably oppose lynching anyone other than the two of them. Unless some really attractive wagon that I desperately want anyway pops up.

It certainly does.

Vote: SafetyDance

[Nautilius]

How so?

- Des

I find the odds that quadz, a middling townread for pretty much everyone, got roleblocked by on the day when SD said that he tracked him intensely weird.

I need to do my own thinking about this claim but general question: is it site meta here to check your null reads over your scumreads (the latter is what I've typically done offsite)? Because I recall quadz suspecting ooba pretty heavily and see that name as a pretty glaring omission among his investigations.

If I was ever a cop, I'd investigate people that I couldn't read.

Right now, GR and PnJ are scumreads. Tierce is a solid town read. Shadoweh is conftown for the most part unless he does something really scummy. His wavelength has practically mirrored mine thus far.

Why?

I'm not sure. I was going to kill quadz so you can see my indecision. >.> The way this is playing out, probably whichever of SD or quadz doesn't get lynched if the lynched one flips town.

What happens when one flips scum?
And why aren't you marrying me yet?

Evil: SafetyDance-Messiah-Nacho

ooba.

I notice Nautilius isn't saying if they used any ability night 2 and if it failed or not. Should have heard from them before.

If I had any information disputing this bit, I would have announced it.

I'm still frustrated that AGar wasn't shot last night instead of "Faraday's troll-scum character".

[Nautilius]

I'm not really all that hyped about the SD wagon at the moment.

[Nautilius]

will you lynch AGar with me?