Mini 1404 - Monopoly Mafia - Game Over

[guille2015]

Hello everyone.

I'm gonna quick read through this game. I'm not in the mood to do a catchup wall post. If there is anything you want me to focus on early in the game or something you want my opinion on, feel free to say so now.

[guille2015]

A. Do you have the railroad B&O? Specifically that card and if you don't have it just you don't and not anything more. If you do then I want to know what power it has if any.
B. To direct a bit what are your thoughts on lurker's wagon before he scum slipped? Along with thoughts on current role discussion.

A. Yeah, I have it. It's as Lurker described it. I asked GNR when I received all my cards and he said I got it when Day 1 ended.

B. I'm about half way through the game. I have not yet gotten to the point Lurker scumslipped, but I am at the point where his wagon died off. I noticed some of the players stayed in the wagon, which is a good indication of town stubbornness. I started making a list of how I saw some players as I played and I wrote down several reads. I thought SC was scummy at first but his persistence in the Lurker lynch makes me think he is town. I've got an early town read on Medhi even though he was against the Lurker wagon. When I read how the lurker wagon started, knowing that he was scum, I find it an obvious wagon. His post 44, was a good point of start that I would have used to pressure him to. Then his play was scummy in general. His vote for LM was quite bad. I found Robert scummy. And I find Jal town. For some reason I wrote that Jake is whatever the opposite of SC, but I don't remember why I wrote that. It would seem that Baby got vigged, and I can completely understand why that was. Who ever did that should claim it, if they haven't done so already. This is basically what I have from reading 20 pages. Let's see if I can get to the fun parts.

[guille2015]

I'm all caught up. (Kinda, I'm in 1049, but I think its enough for this post to go through) Had to read sporadically but it was a fun read. Let's see, I'm not going to give a big wall on everyhting, So, I'll just post my notes that I wrote.

GNR's death flavor tends to be related to the acting party based on actual flavor. Gun tends to be vig/mafia, Knife tends to be SK/maybe mafia, and if you are flattened, it's a giant, squirrel run robot. Consider the possibility that there might be an SK and that the mafia action was either blocked or protected. Not enough evidence for this yet, though.

Mehdi

: I've got a town read on him since early in the game. Him being seen staying home when he used a chance card, then needs confirmation from the mod. This lowers my read on him, but not enough to get a vote on him yet. You'll see why later.

SC/Cheery

: I started with a scummy read, then that turned town. Post 356 is questioning the claim,then proceeds to direct the votes to Lurker and I think that that in itself is enough to clear him. Cheery dog got his vote remove at the end of the day, Don't know what to think from that.

Mogadish/TBG

: His interactions early with Medhi and Lurker made me think he is Town. However, I need to refresh my mind as to why I think that. Given that I have a townread on TBG when he came in, this will be low priority.

Jal

: Town. Per reasons already mentioned, but she brought the attention to Lurker that got him to claim.

LM

: I've got him as town here. For him to be scum, he'd have to fake post 689 very well.

Robert/safety

: I've labeled as scummy for mostly 181. 980: It makes me wonder, that would mean that he received that card from Lurker. Lurker had two cards. I received one of them. He lied about the electric being a tracker. but he then admitted to being scum rather than saying that he misread.

If someone else received a card at the end of the day other than Safety, then Safety had the Electric card prior Lurker being lynched.

Jake

: I've got him as the opposite of SC. He also read as scummy to me and not noticing the slip makes me wonder. Although, I can understand skimming that post.

*Waves at AI*

AI

: I find him scummy to the highest degree. This doesn't read like his town play. 506 is the post that I would reference for this. I don't like it.

Xis

: He went all day one under the radar for me. I have to check that out. I don't like his cheery dog vote at day 2.

[guille2015]

Oh yeah because if anyone else had the EC they would have kept it quiet? #980 was days ago, even the lurkers have read it by now, I would be getting rope burn around my neck right about now if there was another counter claim. This is funny too, anyone could claim they got the railway card, your claim of getting Lurker's card AFTER my claim of getting one of them, actually backs up my claim. You realise you could be counter-claimed too?

No no. If Lurker had two cards upon death, and more than three players received cards upon his death. Then one of them is lying.

I originally had a scum read on you, actually your slot, you are doing quite good. So, I am trying to reconcile how Lurker messed up his card in 307 (was it?). It's possible that he misread his own card. But maybe the card wasn't his in the first place. I am just making sure that you have indeed gotten the card from lurker. Since nobody other than you and me claim this, then I can infer that Lurker did have that card and that you did receive it.

One of the things that promoted me to think this way is that Waterworks is also a one shot tracker, Right cheery? Personally, I would have designed watcher and tracker into them, but I am no GNR.

[guille2015]

@Mod: Ok, what version of Monopoloy are we playing?

I'm seeing google images that are purple but all the wiki layouts are brown.

Monopoly switched the Baltic/Mediterranean properties from Purple to brown. I used to own a board with them Purple, but current boards have them as brown.

[guille2015]

Guile, why in your mind does SC and I have to be different alliance? I don't think you ever explained your reasoning behind this

Well, first part is that you cannot be both scum due to 1) your conversation on day one seems genuine and 2) SC/Cheery is town.

Second you found something suspicious on SC. You go after him saying you'll explain later. Then you say its gut, but you want him lynch. Take note that SC wants Lurker lynch at this time. You do give the posts that gave you your gut read, much much much later.

And you still seem to be suspicious about Cheery when he was been one of the most pro town players in the game.

But you are right, this is not enough to link you as opposite. Enough for me to be suspicious of you though.

[guille2015]

You

know for a fact

SC is town? That's an interesting development

Misrep anyone?

Besides I did essentially explain my suspicious, just not all in 1 post

This is true. but your explanation was unsatisfactory. Yeah, your suspicion revolves on SC being a careful reader when he missed something early in the game. However, this is not indicative of any alignment. You don't even go through meta to back it up.

[guille2015]

How did I misrep you? You said he's town did u not?

No, you said, that I said as a fact that cheery is town. It's typical for probably everyone in this site, that when they are confident in someone as town they will state "This person is town" with out it actually meaning that they know this as a fact.

[guille2015]

I"m just still baffled by Jal claiming Vigilante after she's assuming Scum have a roleblocker by not lynching Medhi. I really don't like it. It seems possibly worth it to lynch her, since even if she's Town, it probably gets the card somewhere it won't be blocked. (whereas Scum may have card stealing/snatching powers or etc) I mean, you guys can't tell me two trackers, two watchers, and at least one vigil are out there without something to counterbalance it all.

Not a reason to think that Jal is scum. Unless she and Medhi are both scum, scum would know that they have a roleblocker so they would have known this plan will not face scrutiny.

With the consideration of the watchers it might work. But I see a problem that plan. As long as scum don't know what the problem is, they can't work around it.

[guille2015]

So, I'm kinda rereading everything that happened since I joined in. Let's start with monkey.

Did a readthrough and my scumreads are at the end of the post.

Spoiler:

Post #92 – Don’t like Robert’s stance on no lynching.
Post #138 – Good town post regarding Luker’s activity from Jal.
Post #148 – Baby Spice posts stats, but doesn’t want to back them up.
Post #157 – Good defence post from Lurker
Post #168 – Bad OMGUS vote from Lurker
Post #174 – Like Mehdi’s position on no-lynching.
Post #176 – Robert fence sitting on no lynching, this gets even worse.
Post #195 – Mog starts to go hard on Mehndi. Good scumhunting.
Post #210 – Mehdi is coming off as very defensive as Mog continues to attack.
Post #266 – Jake starts to attack StrangerCoug.
Post #273 – Disagree with mog on L-2 claims.
Post #286- Disagree with SC, Jones should be pretty town.
Post #325 – Discussion on hammering Lurker. Pretty sure I don’t like this wagon.
Post #342 – Liking Jal’s anti-Lurker wagon.
Post #374 – Lurker doesn’t seem scummy to me, SC continues lurker attack.
Post #385 – SC says Xis and Mhork are town, since SC is looking scummy, this does not make them look good.
Post #399 – Agree with jake that Baby Spice’s town list is bad. Esp Robert and SC.
Post #414 – BabySpice reveals she is an alt reluctant to give information on her other aliases.
Post #430 – Q defends SC…don’t think this is good. Votes Lurker, don’t think this is good either.
Post #462 – Jal defends Lurker
Post #501 – Defensive post from BabySpice
Post #508 – SC attacks and FOS’s Mehdi. Mehdi’s reaction seems more protown than SC’s attack.
Post #518 – Good baby spice vote by jal.
Post #526 – Finally SC does something townish and votes Baby.
Post #536 – Baby coming off as defensive again.
Post #552 – SC requests replacement when there’s a wagon on him. Scummy.
Post #578 - Even more defensiveness from babyspice, why not scumhunt?
Post #627 – Baby is obvscum. SC is obvscum.
Post #684 – Xis attacks babyspice. Good post
Post #695 – Lurker self votes. Pretty scummy. But I still think he’s probably desperate. town.
Post #705 – Good logic post from Jal
Post #709 – Brawl defends Lurker.
Post #726 – Jal Votes Lurker. Coming of as very wishy washy on him.
Post #737 – Liked Jake at the beginning, but his posts are becoming increasingly antagonistic towards townish people.
Post #749 – Jal unvotes, not liking the fencesitting, but still townish.
Post #769 – Good meta research by Uber, usually townish behavior.
Post #829 – Uber votes Jal, don’t agree with him, but I like his scumhunting.
Post #840 – Good alignment post from Uber.
Post #845 – Don’t agree with jake’s response to Uber.
Post #865 – Lurker claims scum? Will have to reevaluate some of my reads.
Post #886 – End of day 1. Looking back this makes Jal and SC look more town.
Post #915 – Jal makes a good point on Jake. He did get scummier as the lurker wagon progressed.
Post #947 – Good lurker vote from Mehdi
Post #953 – Good meta research from Mehdi.
Post #967 – Jake votes safety. Definitely something to watch later on.
Post #971 – Good post from Jal on why Robert is town.
Post #879 – Safety gets a night action result on mehdi.
Post #984 – Mehdi wagon continues

Current reads
Town
Safety
Jal
CheeryDog
Mehdi2277

Nuetral
Xisqomelir

Scum
Brawl
Jake from State Farm

1. Did you write this post as you read the thread?
2. You missed NumberQ. Any thoughts on his play?
3. I don't see why you place Medhi as town. Can you give me why this is?

[guille2015]

as per #505 I have two property cards. I also have a worthless community chest card I got last night.

I just got a pm from the mod saying I got a third card during the night he forgot about.

Can you please elaborate more on this?

[guille2015]

@Medhi: Why do you want me dead. Elaborate, please?

[guille2015]

Guille does none of my posts referring to you explain why?

No. You only mention NQ as a lurker. But you mention me several time with intent on voting but no reason whatsoever. Just once you say: "Finally for the mock lynch Pseudo vote: guille. Early nice posts help but only if sustained and currently you remain one of the people I suspect most." in Post 1138. But that's vague and I don't know what you mean with vague.

From what I can tell, your entire suspicion of me is based on Number Q's inactivity.

[guille2015]

Monkey please answer the following:

So, I'm kinda rereading everything that happened since I joined in. Let's start with monkey.

Did a readthrough and my scumreads are at the end of the post.

Spoiler:

Post #92 – Don’t like Robert’s stance on no lynching.
Post #138 – Good town post regarding Luker’s activity from Jal.
Post #148 – Baby Spice posts stats, but doesn’t want to back them up.
Post #157 – Good defence post from Lurker
Post #168 – Bad OMGUS vote from Lurker
Post #174 – Like Mehdi’s position on no-lynching.
Post #176 – Robert fence sitting on no lynching, this gets even worse.
Post #195 – Mog starts to go hard on Mehndi. Good scumhunting.
Post #210 – Mehdi is coming off as very defensive as Mog continues to attack.
Post #266 – Jake starts to attack StrangerCoug.
Post #273 – Disagree with mog on L-2 claims.
Post #286- Disagree with SC, Jones should be pretty town.
Post #325 – Discussion on hammering Lurker. Pretty sure I don’t like this wagon.
Post #342 – Liking Jal’s anti-Lurker wagon.
Post #374 – Lurker doesn’t seem scummy to me, SC continues lurker attack.
Post #385 – SC says Xis and Mhork are town, since SC is looking scummy, this does not make them look good.
Post #399 – Agree with jake that Baby Spice’s town list is bad. Esp Robert and SC.
Post #414 – BabySpice reveals she is an alt reluctant to give information on her other aliases.
Post #430 – Q defends SC…don’t think this is good. Votes Lurker, don’t think this is good either.
Post #462 – Jal defends Lurker
Post #501 – Defensive post from BabySpice
Post #508 – SC attacks and FOS’s Mehdi. Mehdi’s reaction seems more protown than SC’s attack.
Post #518 – Good baby spice vote by jal.
Post #526 – Finally SC does something townish and votes Baby.
Post #536 – Baby coming off as defensive again.
Post #552 – SC requests replacement when there’s a wagon on him. Scummy.
Post #578 - Even more defensiveness from babyspice, why not scumhunt?
Post #627 – Baby is obvscum. SC is obvscum.
Post #684 – Xis attacks babyspice. Good post
Post #695 – Lurker self votes. Pretty scummy. But I still think he’s probably desperate. town.
Post #705 – Good logic post from Jal
Post #709 – Brawl defends Lurker.
Post #726 – Jal Votes Lurker. Coming of as very wishy washy on him.
Post #737 – Liked Jake at the beginning, but his posts are becoming increasingly antagonistic towards townish people.
Post #749 – Jal unvotes, not liking the fencesitting, but still townish.
Post #769 – Good meta research by Uber, usually townish behavior.
Post #829 – Uber votes Jal, don’t agree with him, but I like his scumhunting.
Post #840 – Good alignment post from Uber.
Post #845 – Don’t agree with jake’s response to Uber.
Post #865 – Lurker claims scum? Will have to reevaluate some of my reads.
Post #886 – End of day 1. Looking back this makes Jal and SC look more town.
Post #915 – Jal makes a good point on Jake. He did get scummier as the lurker wagon progressed.
Post #947 – Good lurker vote from Mehdi
Post #953 – Good meta research from Mehdi.
Post #967 – Jake votes safety. Definitely something to watch later on.
Post #971 – Good post from Jal on why Robert is town.
Post #879 – Safety gets a night action result on mehdi.
Post #984 – Mehdi wagon continues

Current reads
Town
Safety
Jal
CheeryDog
Mehdi2277

Nuetral
Xisqomelir

Scum
Brawl
Jake from State Farm

1. Did you write this post as you read the thread?
2. You missed NumberQ. Any thoughts on his play?
3. I don't see why you place Medhi as town. Can you give me why this is?

as per #505 I have two property cards. I also have a worthless community chest card I got last night.

I just got a pm from the mod saying I got a third card during the night he forgot about.

Can you please elaborate more on this?

[guille2015]

I got boardwalk, it gives me the vigilante power to kill one player each night. I just got this today so I haven't used it yet.

That wasn't the intent of my question, but given that you are at L-1, this is as good as claiming in this game.

I wanted to know why you said: "As of #505..." That confused me. Then you said that the Mod forgot to tell you you had a card. I want to know how that event transpired. Paraphrased of course.

[guille2015]

I got boardwalk, it gives me the vigilante power to kill one player each night. I just got this today so I haven't used it yet.

That wasn't the intent of my question, but given that you are at L-1, this is as good as claiming in this game.

I wanted to know why you said: "As of #505..." That confused me. Then you said that the Mod forgot to tell you you had a card. I want to know how that event transpired. Paraphrased of course.

The mod basically sent me an oops! post and said he had forgotten a card, and sent me boardwalk. :shrug:

Why did you say, "As of #505"?

[guille2015]

But 505 is not yours. and it was on day 1. Prior to you saying "as of 505" you had not Reported any card for the day, hence your answer makes no sense.

[guille2015]

He could have said "I currently have 2 cards"

[guille2015]

Ah, I have miss read. So now it makes sense. I'll explain. "as of" implied that you were not going to state how many cards you had after 505. So, it didn't make sense to me. But now I get it.

I'm going to post a revision of my reads after I come from lunch. Nobody lynch yet, it's not worth it yet.

[guille2015]

Monkey who are you shooting if you don't get lynched? I know you said you'd listen to what people said, but if the day ended now who would you shoot? Even if monkey is scum assuming one of the vigs is town (which jal likely is at least) keeping both alive for now has its benefits it the kills aren't just anywhere. UNVOTE: Monkey If monkey is scum and the kill he's referring to is the nk that blocks scum from night killing to just leave him alive and control the kill.

VOTE: guille

Medhi, you have just said this:

Yeah inactivity plus

the other big reason that somehow disappeared PoE

. If you disagree with me suspecting you for not being a town read then argue which of my town reads are bad.

So, your only argument on me is inactivity? I agree that NQ has been inactive. But you really can't say that about me. I have been posting regularly and consistency after I had read through the game and posted my first reads. If you have something else on me say it.

One thing I am noticing is that this is not your town play that I have seen on other games.

[guille2015]

The Following are my strongest town reads. (In no particular order)

Jal

: Forced Lurker to claim and found his slip. I don't know if anybody else would have seen it.

CheeryDog

: Kept the pressure on Lurker with a good argument that was that the cards do not define the alignment. First to say that. This doesn't have any indication of being a bus.

Safety

: I see no scum motivation or inconsistency with his exchange with Mehdi and myself.

Leaning town: (In no particular order)

LordM

: On par with CD on day 1 and lower activity today. However, his posts are town motivated although he has been accused of being ignorant.

Monkey

: My questions were to see if there was a certain consistency in him, who replaced AI who I was suspicious of. Two points of evidence here. One is that if we assume that he wrote his catchup post as he was reading it, it does not read like someone that knew inside info, or information that they would have gained by reading a scum QT, prior to reading the game. This is a weak case because there is quite a big assumption, and it can be faked. But read through it and notice how his reads change and formulate as he reads. Second is the strongest. The confirmed mod error is gold here. I misread his statement and thought that he had prior knowledge that he had known he had three cards when he shouldn't have unless his scum buddies told him. Had AI/Monkey been scum, he'd know about the third card since it is likely that AI would have sad it in the scum chat. Voting for him is dumb. One thing to worry though is that when the Lurker flip came though, AI posted 676 no vote.

TBG

: I need to ISO him and do a PBP. But his posts seem consistent, contributing. I place him as the one closest to Null of this group. And then there is this town read I had on Mogadishu

Null to Scum: (In no particular order)

Medhi

: I basically lost all my town read from him. Basically, he currently has 2 scum reads (Monkey and Me) with slight suspicion on Xis. However, he has put forth no argument other than inactivity for me, which is not true. I have been active given the time frame in which I post. There is the information that Safety has, inconsistency with his claim, and he defended Lurker prior to him slipping.

Xis

: Posts with lots of words and questions, but rarely does followup on the questions. His analysis are OK, but I would keep an eye on him. I've got something in his 899 that I will explain in the next post.

Jake

: Gut. I have a suspicion on him, but I think I have to do a PBP analysis on him at some point soon. Also, he said he had information in 932 and hasn't said anything about it, or I missed it.

Conclusion. I'd find scum in (Medhi, Xis, Jake) Primarily due to POE. If I am wrong about something it would be on LM, Monkey and TBG, but I am confident in my analysis of LM and Monkey.

I'll concentrate my effort on Xis, but my vote can quickly go to Medhi if so. Not doing anything with Jake until I PBP him.

Vote Xis

[guille2015]

I'm not surprised by the Uber NK, but I'm sort of amazed by the Baby one. She didn't really have much by way of reads. There was a long Jal-fight, and an unvote, and this:

Since you asked.
Scum: Jal

Leaning scum: Agent I, Xis *****

Null: Jake* Medhi, Mog ***

Vig bait: Mhork, NS & NumberQ ****

Leaning town: Lurker** Robert** SC

Town:


*I did have Jake as leaning scum until recently

**Not sure scum would mention getting Community chests cards so quickly, otherwise was null.

*** Not sure if he's leaning town or just faking so null.

**** Needs to post or be replaced. Vig bait due to LAL

*****Really didn't like Xis' entrance or early votes. Easy target and bandwagoning. Add in way under posting.

And a Mehdi vote and a Lurker vote.

why do you think the throat slit is mafia? in my experiences of playing mafia, SK usually has a non gun weapon most usually a knife and mafia has a gun. Regardless I doubt either was a vig target.

I agree with this.

lurker was scum and I was suspicious of that Cheer Dog/SC slot yesterday. The fact lurker flipped scum, that vote by SC early on looked like a bus vote.

And this I'm happy to continue with.

VOTE: Cheery Dog

This is an interesting post considering that we have currently some evidence that suggests that Baby killed UN and UN stayed put.
Jake points out that Baby was likely the scum kill. Xis points out that he does not understand why this is, but he is on the top of the Baby scum list that he posted and does no mention of it.

The Cheery vote is bad. Bad argument from Jake.

[guille2015]

Monkey who are you shooting if you don't get lynched? I know you said you'd listen to what people said, but if the day ended now who would you shoot? Even if monkey is scum assuming one of the vigs is town (which jal likely is at least) keeping both alive for now has its benefits it the kills aren't just anywhere. UNVOTE: Monkey If monkey is scum and the kill he's referring to is the nk that blocks scum from night killing to just leave him alive and control the kill.

VOTE: guille

Medhi, you have just said this:

Yeah inactivity plus

the other big reason that somehow disappeared PoE

. If you disagree with me suspecting you for not being a town read then argue which of my town reads are bad.

So, your only argument on me is inactivity? I agree that NQ has been inactive. But you really can't say that about me. I have been posting regularly and consistency after I had read through the game and posted my first reads. If you have something else on me say it.

One thing I am noticing is that this is not your town play that I have seen on other games.

That's a vague meta thing with little backing for it. And somehow disappeared is referring to you not noticing it. PoE works for me as a scum tell and the second sentence gives you where to argue it since now your just arguing the fact it's poe instead of why the poe is bad (what town reads are bad).

I fixed your quote.

Ok, I get it now. It's inactivity + POE. Now, I'd like to know if your refering to inactivity from me or NQ. I challenge you to prove that I am inactive. Of course you have to define "inactivity". I can accept POE. That's cool. I do that. Actually I am doing that now. But I am also focusing on finding scummy things on those that I don't find townish. Still lets check your Town read: Well, I think your wrong in considering Jake and Xis as a town read and I don't know why you put TBG in about the same level as Jal and Safety. I disagree with you in not including CD grouped with Jal and Safety. I give my reads to why i think that in my latest reads post.

Can you please give us your current reads?

[guille2015]

Btw, people need to stop making lists of reads. Lists are the worst thing you can do as town IMO

I disagree. The benefits outweigh the risks. The information that scum might get from the reads can be ascertain by simply reading the thread. Reads lists makes it easier to get information which is a valuable asset for town.

[guille2015]

At the moment I'd say cross-kill each other, vig claims are always dodgy.

And then risk both vigs cards possibly fall into scum hands? or for more people to end up claiming receiving said cards only to do the same tomorrow night?

UNVOTE:

What says the cards aren't already in scum hands?

My (and almost everyone else's) town read of Jal does - though it is quite possible Monkey's is in scum hands currently, as such he is currently most likely to be lynched.

If they are both town, they will definitely kill each other and then we have the potential of falling on scum hands. If they are both scum, they will choose not too.

For our current situation. Jal is universally considered town. Everyone seems to want monkey dead, and we don't know where his cards are going to go. So, a cross-kill is impossible.

If we go with the mock Lynch, both vigs should target the same player. Then we avoid Wifom and roleblockers.

I'm fine with or without the mock kill, but it is clear to me that the owner of Boardwalk and park place (If any of the current owners die) should claim it first thing in the morning and state their target.

[guille2015]

Assuming that the expensive properties actually do give vig powers (this I consider true) I still think that most likely neither vig shot, the SK killed UN and mafia (or only very slightly possibly, a vig) killed Baby Spice.

My problem with the night actions is that I cannot conceive why scum would kill Baby. Did they think she had scum nailed? But it does seem like that was the case.

...

Actually, thinking about it now, and it sorta makes sense. She was probably killed to reduce the chance of being watched. If watched or tracked, they'd claim that they vigged her and people would have accepted that. That is the only explanation I can think off.

[guille2015]

Here I'll make it easy for you.

People ill only lynch today: monkey

People you can kill : xis(if monkey flips town) mehndi, mhork, or guile

Can you give your reasons for this?

[guille2015]

Sorry, but where did monkey slip?

[guille2015]

MOD: I will be VLA until Tuesday.

[guille2015]

Vote Jake

[guille2015]

I'm Back. I'll get to reading after lunch.

It seems you guys are making plans and one of the vigged targets is me. Very well, there must be a good reason for that. I'll see you guys later.

[guille2015]

Sorry, but where did monkey slip?

I've already explained that. Read the damn thread

Sorry to be so stuborned, but I just went and checked with your ISO. And you did not explain how monkey slipped. Or at least we have a different definition for slip.

You reference two "slips" on Monkey. 1st is that he did not answer your questions. 2nd is that he claimed to have recieved the card at an unusual time. The first 1 is not a slip by definition but it is reason to get suspicious though. The second was modconfirmed to have happened as Monkey explained it. So there was no slip.

The reason I asked is that by post 1510 you ascertain that Monkey Slipped and I disagree.
So, I repeat again. Where had Monkey Slipped?

[guille2015]

Guille what do you think of jake's replace out and replace in reason? Or how he'd tried to connect his role to things without claiming it? A lot of the tbg town read is similar thoughts on what to do and reads. As for reads safety > jal > tbg > cheery > jake > mhork > xis > guille > monkey. Guille you're following monkey on something when he himself rarely explains his reads and has been vague on everything.

I think nothing of it. No reason for it to be a lie and it is no indication of alignment. Why ask this? Nobody questioned this till now.

Fine I see your reads.

"Or how he'd tried to connect his role to things without claiming it?" I missed this. When did this happen?

I am not following Monkey on anything. That we have converged on the same conclusions is coincidental. There are things in monkey's play that makes me think that he is town. Primarily his consistency and his writing that makes me think that the way he presented himself at entry into this game as genuine. I could be wrong though, and he has done some things that make him scummy. Primarily his appeal to emotion, appeal to fear and some reasons for voting that I find unsubstantiated. If he is scum, then Madhi and Jake are likely to be town. And that's something that I am having a hard time to swallow.

[guille2015]

dude has ignored my questions and has showed up and put what he thought was an L-1 vote while speaking nonsense, I don't care if you like my vote, he's basically slipped imo

2 slips explained in 1 post. Glad you are reading closely guile.

I saw that, and that is not a slip. That is scummy behavior but it is not a slip. What lurker did was a slip. The card thing was an apparent slip,until it was confirmed true.

[guille2015]

Scumslips are things town wouldn't do and scum does. Those are both scum slips. You disagree? You are entitled.

He's stil ignoring questions, he's not doing anything to help town. He thinks he has found scum but isn't doing anything to convince people to vote with him and he isn't doing anything but waiving his vig claim around to defend himself.

I'm not changing my vote, and contrary to his opinion, if he's town it's nobody's fault but his own.

But what he has done that you tag as a scumslip is something that Town has been seen to do, especially the stubborn type town that Monkey appears to be.

I concede to you that your second paragraph is enough reason to lynch Monkey. It would seem that monkey is ignoring questions because he thinks he has already answered them though. At least that's what I am getting at. Questions about his change in reads has been answered by him, though. The thing is that normally I don't see scum blatantly ignoring questions. Hence why I have a bitter taste for this lynch.

[guille2015]

I am in agreement with the established plan. After reading the last 10 pages or so I concede that the best lynch today is Monkey. His flip will be the most informative. I am fine facing the vig. Given how many people seem to not like me, getting me out of this game would be ideal. I believe the following is the most current suggestion for the plan:

If Monkey is Town:

Role Owner	Card Name	Role Power	Target
Safety Dance	Electric Company	Tracker	???
Cheery Dog	Waterworks	Tracker	???
Safety Dance	Mediterranean Avenue	Watcher	Jal
Jake	Baltic Avenue	Watcher	Safety Dance
Jal	Park Place	Vig	Mehdi
Whoever gets Monkey's boardwalk	Boardwalk	Vig	Guille (if Guille gets it, Xis)

If Monkey is Scum:

Role Owner	Card Name	Role Power	Target
Safety Dance	Electric Company	Tracker	Mehdi
Cheery Dog	Waterworks	Tracker	Jake
Safety Dance	Mediterranean Avenue	Watcher	Cheery Dog
Jake	Baltic Avenue	Watcher	Safety Dance
Jal	Park Place	Vig	No Kill
Whoever gets Monkey's boardwalk	Boardwalk	Vig	No Kill

[guille2015]

I'm fine with revealing our neighborhood. I'll make a more substantial post later today.

For now, I'll say that, as we discussed in the free parking, the flip should have been considered as a "Town" flip. More precisely a "Not Mafia" flip. Given that the "scum" option was based on Linking Monkey with other scum and knowledge of town.

I have no knew cards today.

[guille2015]

I've got an orange (useless), red (Neighbor) and B&O (Useless).

So, was the deal with Medhi not seen moving on night 1 resolved? The problem for me is that there is no apparent Roleblock given that everyone seemed to have received their results properly.

Given that LM and Medhi were watched together. It would be impossible for them both to be Scum. I would like to assume that the game has 2 scum left rather than 1.

BTW, LM did say something early in the night. We all gave our scum reads and we all have similar opinions. He boasted that he knew that Monkey was an SK, and gave his reads. Then Cheery, placed his suspicions on LM and asked him if he was scum with Medhi. He posted at the end of the night with an apology and saying that he wasn't.

I share Cheery's concern on LM. Although, I think that LM is a very weak town read for me. I can't shake his play on day 1, as I have explained. I am confident in my town reads, as they have not changed since I posted them. If I am mistaken on them, it would be LM.

I want to hear from Xis now, and see what he has to say.

As for my thinking with the flip of yesterday's game, the reason I say that Monkey's SK flip, was essentially a Town flip, because had he flipped Mafia, we would have cleared Medhi and Jake and the the Trackers essentially become cops. The "scum" route was ideal for that scenario, but not for a scenario in which we get no such information. The "town" route was set to maximize the spread of getting scum in the event that we got no information. The SK flip, was essentially like that. It seems that only Cheery and I thought like that.

[guille2015]

Cop claim does not follow Alignment. Results do not help.

Xis:
Why do you say that Jake is town?

Why did you want to wait for everyone to chip in before you claimed?

[guille2015]

Guille is only scum if the rest of his neighbourhood is town.

Also, how do you reach this conclusion?

[guille2015]

If we assume that the card are handed out randomly. then the odd of one of us being scum are high. But it is not a certainty, like Xis says.

Obviously starting this game I (And I also noticed SC too) took precautions of the other two. And I played close attention to what they said in-game and in the QT.

I am very confident in Cheery being town. And I have a town read on LM. That read has been affected by today's play and his response to the QT. If there is scum in the neighborhood, then it is most probably LM, but I really don't think that is the case.

My problem with what Xis said is that he said One of the neighborhood is scum. At least that's what was implied.

[guille2015]

I also want add that guile's reaction to being listed as a potential vig target felt off. It's not how I'd expect town to act.

Gut?

[guille2015]

Those that have played with me would know that I tend to be calm regardless of my alignment and situation. I only get defensive of my Lynch or death if it could cost us the game.

[guille2015]

One of the neighborhood probably is scum. I'd bet anything that's true.

There is something really Odd here.

[guille2015]

Jake: What's your opinion on LM and Cheery?

[guille2015]

quick question guile.

when you replaced in did you think your neighborhood was all town or were you under the impression that it's possible there could be scum in there?

The first thing I did was read the QT. I found SC to be scummy from the start. I am well aware of scum neighbors. I was neighbored with Ferb in the Phineas and Ferb game. And my scum buddy was neighbored with an SK. That game was a GNR Game so, so the first thing I thought was that the likelihood of one of them being scum was High. Hence why I payed close attention to their play. Because I played close attention to them, I came to the conclusion that they are likely town.

[guille2015]

why is that? I have never seen an all town neighborhood before so I have no reason to believe one exists in this game.

I'm fine with you thinking it's odd, but you have to explain why you think it's odd.

p.edit - Mhork was pretty town until a certain post he made at the end of day 2, the one i called him out on. After that post he went back to null/slightly scummy.

Cheery is a slight town read but very slight. If mehndi/you are town than I believe cheery is scum though.

It's true that all neighborhoods should be taken with a grain of salt. But assuming that every one has at least one scum in them is not the right way to go about it.

Besides. It would seem that this game handed out the cards randomly. No particular proof of that but I find it likely that that is the case. Given that then then its all based on probability. The probability that all 3 of the Neighborhood are town is 23% assuming there are three mafia and one SK in this game. So, it is possible.

Now, the reason I found your statement odd is because of the wording. If you think I am scum, and you are not voting for me. I don't see why you would word it as "One of the neighborhood

probably

is scum.". For some reason that doesn't match your position on the members of the Neighborhood.

Your Voting Medhi.

[guille2015]

So by your own process of elimination that leaves you as scum? Doesn't make much sense. I had Mhork down as underlined and bolded pro-town day one too. His progressive play since start day 2 has been bad though. So ignoring outside causes like schizophrenia, there's something up with that. And I don't even have a "scummy" QT to go by, so I'm not sure why you're still giving a die-hard town read.

Mehdi is still the best lynch today, but I'm not going to vote yet, I want to use max time available because if he flips town, shit just got very interesting.

With Jal holding 2 vigs cards there *should* only be two kills. Best case scenario for scum is 5 people D4 and we're at lylo. Mylo if vig doesn't shoot on a town lynch.

Time to pop open a xis/jake iso.

Pedit: Riddle me this batman. 13 players start, 5 are dead. 3 in neighbourhood all alive day 3.

"So by your own process of elimination that leaves you as scum? " No. Because I am not assuming that there has to be scum in the neighborhood. If the two with me are town, then I have to conclude that the game started with a 3 town neighborhood.

I also do not have a die hard town read on LM. My die hard read is on Cheerydog. I stated that I am not certain of my Town read of LM due to everything that has been said about the topic. But My position is that he is still a town read, if not Null. So I have to work with that.

[guille2015]

(fixed)

The probability that all 3 of the Neighborhood are town is 23% assuming there are three mafia and one SK in this game. So, it is possible.

If you think I am scum, and you are not voting for me. I don't see why you would word it as "One of the neighborhood

probably

is scum.". For some reason that doesn't match your position on the members of the Neighborhood.

You don't think that a 77% chance quantifies the term "probably"?

That's not what I mean. The term Probably is used correctly, but I find it odd that someone will say that

I

am scum, phrase it with the word "probably" and still not vote for me.

[guille2015]

I see there being scum in your neighbourhood very probable. Especially since none of you are pushing up the daises and have been in the qt since the start (didn't inherit cards). Probable doesn't mean most its the most likely. Raw statistics is now 37.5% of current alive list. Don't you agree that's a better percentage than 3/13?

9/13 x 8/13 x 7/13 =~ 23% assuming 3 scum and 1 SK.

[guille2015]

Btw, do you or anyone who wants to voice it think that all the cards were randomly distributed at the start of the game?

[guille2015]

9/13 first card lands on town.
8/13 second card lands on town.
7/13 third card lands on town

[guille2015]

I'm on the phone so I'll be quick.

With a vig and a lynch you can take out 2/3 of the neighborhood and likely hit scum if one of us is scum. If you are certain that one of us is scum then this should be the strategy to use. Why waste the lynch on medhi and keep the neighborhood uncertainty for LYlo.

[guille2015]

I'm gonna call it a day. See you tomorrow.

[guille2015]

Also another thing, in guile's catchup post he pointed to a post that SC made on page 15 and follows it up by saying SC was trying to direct people to vote lurker. But if you actually read pages 15-22 (where SC unvotes lurker) SC doesn't do anything of the sort. I'd almost call it an outright lie.

It's true that he did not outright request everyone to vote for Lurker, but rather he remain with his vote on Lurker until he found Baby scummier... and he kept saying reasons for which he found Lurker scummy. My interpretation of that is that he wanted him lynched. Then the topic died down and he discussed things with others finding town reads.

I would think that if SC was busing Lurker, he would find someone scummier much more quickly. Though it appears that his motivation for this game was off at the time so that might be the reason.

Unless SC is the kind of player that would buss like this, he is town. I looked back at a game I had with him as scum (Judge, Jury and Executioner) and it was hard for me to notice his aggressiveness towards others. Since it was a game with everyone having three votes, he used that to place votes on some of his buddies. But it doesn't feel the same way. I don't really have time to Meta him though. Maybe later.

[guille2015]

And guille can you show yourself being really calm as town when faced with pressure similar to being told you'll be killed? I know you were calm as scum in marketplace mafia under similar, but town meta for how it's null and not scummy?

I'll show you the way, You do the legwork.

Latest game Newbie 1301: I played badly and was lynched day 2 for that.
3831 iniM: Objective was to revive town. So I accepted my fate that many said they did not want me revived early, which is effectively a lynch in that game. I got revived later, though.
Micro 28: It was a kingmaker and I was a Hero. I don't know if this counts because I was invulnerable to being lynched. But I point this out because in this game the King was someone I correctly thought was town, so I did not want him to execute me and die.

These are the games I recall. I don't remember any other completed games I was threatened to be killed as town.

[guille2015]

3/3 scum in neighbourhood is impossible, given that we've lynched Lurker
2/3 scum in neighbourhood would be very unbalanced, and I think it unlikely since we've definitely got one scum in {Safety,Mehdi}
1/3 scum in neighbourhood is the most typical setup on site
0/3 scum in neighbourhood is bastardy, but not something I'll rule out completely (I've seen it once before)

This assumes that the cards were distributed non-randomly according to setup design and balance. We have concluded that they were handed randomly, so this does not apply.

[guille2015]

...
where is the reason he gave? because I don't remember any real reason other than him sheeping mhork

I checked his ISO, and yes, he doesn't explicitly say any reasons. But the does say this:

Right now why I think you're not making sense of my post is because you understand my refusal to unvote Lurker incorrectly. Let's set the record straight: My vote is a basic sheep of Lord Mhork's defense/counterattack (he's established it's a bit of both) of Lurker in #227, which basically accuses him of not reading the game. Why I didn't unvote Lurker is because cards can end up with absolutely anyone regardless of alignment as far as I know. I never said anything to the effect of disbelieving that cards give powers, which is why I questioned your understanding of my Lurker read in #478.

It is implicit that he finds Lurker scummy enough to have votes and that he is wondering why everyone is unvoting after lurker claims. He spends most of the time defending why he did not unvote.

[guille2015]

Although I wasn't asked, I say that the neighborhood is town/town/town. And to be clear that's Cheery/Guille/LM. Not to be confused with LM/Cheery/Guille.


Seriously now, I am not voting Jake because I find Medhi scummy. And today's event has me thinking that Jake and Medhi cannot be scum together. And this in itself is a conundrum, because I don't see a Medhi/Xis pair either. So unless Medhi and Jake decided to bus eachother because they were suspected of being scum (Plausible), then Medhi is paired with one of my town reads. Not Jal or Safety, so if that is the case It's LM or Cheery. So, in conclusion I am uneasy with a Medhi vote too.

There is one thing that Xis said earlier that makes me think that he could be town. (I'll keep it to myself for now.) This means that, from my point of view, it's Medhi and Jake. So, I am fine voting for either. However, Jake has made sense in my discussion with him. I noticed that I shouldn't be as certain of Cheery as I thought I was.

Vote Medhi

[guille2015]

BTW Mod: Can we get a votecount. It's been a while.

[guille2015]

Guille you realize it's impossible for me to be scum with mhork because of roles? (for me to be scum with him then cheery or safety has to be scum which would make 4 mafia + 1 sk in a 13 player game and would make this mylo and I'll go with the easy 5 scum isn't going to occur in this game) You're logic basically says I've run out of people to be scum with except cheery (I see at the end you seem to consider me + jake when you earlier said we can't be scum together so not sure how those two work).

In fact here:

Seriously now, I am not voting Jake because I find Medhi scummy. And today's event has me thinking that Jake and Medhi cannot be scum together.

This means that, from my point of view, it's Medhi and Jake.

That's true, you cannot be scum with LM unless you have a ninja role, like Cheery suggest, but it doesn't matter much. That just means that if you are scum and not Jakes buddy, then I'd have to go for Cheery as your partner.

I might have written 2007 in a confusing matter. My first part of the post that says that Medhi and Jake can't be scum buddy together, is my analysis based on today's event. Baring a dual scum bus which is possible since they are both under the radar. The second is base on my POE. I like Xis current day performance, so if everyone but Medhi and Jake are townreads of mine, that would mean that the above analysis has some holes. The two ideas are compatible because of the dual bus possibility.

[guille2015]

Couple of questions for now, would people rather go into day 4 in lylo or mlyo? Because if today is a mislynch then that's the question facing the vig.

Depends how good our guesses at remaining scum are, Should Mehdi actually be town, MYLO is possibly better as there will be less chance of the vig misfiring if we fail to lynch tomorrow, but then again there would probably be a roleblocker or similar that wasn't active last night if they have another shot would ruin that second chance.
I trust Jal to make whatever is the correct decision.

My opinion on the matter is the same as cheery's.

[guille2015]

I don't think there is a roleblocker - although there is a chance they purposely failed to roleblock last night to have a mislynch of Mehdi today. Another thing - if there is a roleblocker at all discovered, they were okay with Mehdi dying since I wasn't role blocked last night - meaning Mehdi is town.

This is true. There is no evidence of a role-blocker regardless.

[guille2015]

Move closer naturally works more for a lynch not me (my preference should be clear by now). If it is me I'd still desire to write the table and plan out night actions for next night.

I say you can suggest the table. We can prepare a counter-plan after you present your plan.

[guille2015]

Player	Role Power	Target
Safety	Watcher	Cheery/Xis
Jake	Watcher	Safety/Xis
Safety	Tracker	Xis
Cheery	Tracker	Mhork
Xis	Cop	Cheery
Jal	Vigilante	guille

Ok, let me analyze this. Assuming two remaining scum. We've got two possibilities.

Medhi flips scum:
If this is the case, the above does this. I am dead. Cheery and Safety will likely survive. Mork and Xis are tracked. Xis Checks Cheery. With 5 players and 1 scum, Xis's claim is reliable. If all results are negative, then that leaves scum among the surviving of Jal, Safety, and Jake. If Xis is scum, then his best bet is to kill Cheery, but he would get caught by Safety. Unless there is really a ninja (which I doubt). So, this plan will lynch two players in the following two days that will guarantee hitting scum.

My suggested modification: Remove the /Xis part from Safety's action. Jake would have to pick one.

Medhi flips town:
If I am vigged, that would leave 5 players with 2 scum. The above plan would catch Xis/Mhork/cheery from 2 being scum buddies. If a buddy lies outside of this group then they will not be found. Jake is free roaming and Xis can fake a guilty result. Looking at this scenario, it looks very grim so.

I would suggest to have Safety watch Jal. This would prevent town from loosing the Vig and giving those cards to scum. the only problem with this plan is if Jal is scum (which I find unlikely). This would allow town to have a 2 Kill LyLo. Which is not an advantage. If we refrain from vigging, then we have a 2 kill MyLo which is an advantage. I cannot make that decision because the one being Vigged is me. The advantage of course being that reaching a 2 kill MyLo would prevent Xis from faking a guilty result.

Although, I think that medhi would flip scum, It is wise to revise the counter-plan.

[guille2015]

I think 1 watcher needs to be on Jal since he's essentially cleared and the other pick whoever they want and let mafia try to guess who he chose.

If Medhi flips scum, that would put safety watching Jal. Which will in turn free up Cheery so if Xis is scum, he will kill cheery and give an innocent result. Additionally, if scum wanted to frame xis, they'd kill cheery and create the above WIFOM.

If he flips town, then I agree that Jal should be watched.

[guille2015]

Can you, or someone else, expand on the differences in 2 mylo lynches over 2 lylos lynches and how its an advantage? The way I see it at the moment is there is no differences, you still have to get the lynch right regardless.

Difference between a 2 kill MyLo and a 2 kill Lylo. By 2 kill I am refering to the ability to choose who the Vig Kills.

Mylo is 6 players, 2 of which are mafia. Lylo is 5 players, 2 of which are mafia. If we can kill two players during a day/night transition, in Lylo you cannot miss and hit town. So, if the Lynch is on Scum, then the vig should do nothing, and if the Lynch is on town, the Vig can do nothing.

On Mylo, If you hit Scum in the Lynch, thye vig will either hit scum and win or reduce the play to 3 people. If the Lynch is on Town, then the vig can attempt to shot the Scum and reach a 3 player LyLo. Without the Vig we would lose on Mylo if we lynch town.

[guille2015]

I still think that being killed probably removes your cards before you can act with them (role blocks) to explain why baby/un never shot.

This speculation is unneeded.
Perhaps the SK needs a vig card to kill. Perhaps he faked having received the vig card. I can understand that BS never used the card. She doesn't seem like the type. But UN not using his, makes it unusual. However, the evidence points that UN was killed by the Serial killer. Perhaps UN did shoot BS. and mafia didn't kill anyone. When I get vigged tonight, we can test the diference between the vig kill and the Mafia kill.

Occam's razor says that UN was killed by the SK and BS was killed by the mafia.

[guille2015]

What's the town motivation for telling scum what to do?

Seriously if you aren't scum this game I'm gonna

Hey guile. This was directed at you

I am not telling them what to do, I am predicting what they are more likely to do. I want to prevent this from happening. If they are dumb enough not to think about it, it wont matter since they wont be able to do it since we would likely place countermeasures against it. At least, that's the whole purpose of planning our night actions. The purpose of making a plan like this is to narrow scum actions so that it minimizes our loss. If we watch Jal we prevent her from getting killed, but we either lose Safety or we allow Mafia to create WIFOM on Xis (depending on who watches). What action gives the most advantage to town?

The way I see it, I'd rather protect Safety and confirm xis than to protect Jal. If we can do all three actions, then better, but as I see it right now, pick 2.

[guille2015]

I think 1 watcher needs to be on Jal since he's essentially cleared and the other pick whoever they want and let mafia try to guess who he chose.

If Medhi flips scum, that would put safety watching Jal. Which will in turn free up Cheery so if Xis is scum, he will kill cheery and give an innocent result. Additionally, if scum wanted to frame xis, they'd kill cheery and create the above WIFOM.

If he flips town, then I agree that Jal should be watched.

Out of context.
If we don't watch Cheery, then scum, whether it's Xis or not will take advantage of the WIFOM. And I'd rather avoid it. So that's why I said it.

Why are you the only one that is bothered by this?

Like I said the purpose of preparing a plan is to narrow down scum movement. It's almost impossible to catch scum though a public plan. Because they will do their best to outmaneuver the plan. Therefore I am not wrong in trying to predict scum doing the worst thing for us, and suggesting countermeasures for it.

[guille2015]

Town has a won game.

Why do you think town has won the game?

[guille2015]

And the reason is simple. Primarily PoE. There's 7 people for me to look at. Safety/jal/jake I think are pretty town. That leaves mhork/xis/cheery/guille. I just gave some reason for cheery town. Mhork's actions towards lurker day 1 helps him a bit. There's no reason for you to claim cop. The person left at the bottom is guille. In fact look at guille's reaction to my plan (ignoring the fact he's naturally going to dislike the part on me shooting him). I did try to make the tracks/cop work like a triangle and beyond that for the outlier problem to apply jal/jake/safety have to be scum.

I've broken a game to the point town had a 100 percent chance of winning in one case and I think 80 percent chance in the other case he was with me then (detective mafia). I've helped break another and he was with me then (marketplace mafia). And he seriously wants to make a counter plan even if I flip town when by now he should know I understand set ups well?

He bothers to make a mehdi scum flip thing when I said that only applies if I flip town to have more to attack on it (and somehow the plan works better if I flip scum according to him when as scum I'd make sure to take advantage of what I can do). No watcher should have free realm. That leaves it more to luck and I'm not trying to catch scum with watchers. I'm trying to preserve the most results since I know how many results can destroy a scum team. And again I've shown in the past I know set ups well as town.

I'll finish catching up in a bit but I still prioritize guille > mhork (yes I've glanced at this page to see him vote me and while I can see him as scum for a while I've stuck with guille and still believe that).

I know you are good with setups. But even if you are good with setups, it doesn't mean that you are not Mafia.

When I saw your plan, I thought, What would Medhi-scum gain from this. So I suggested a slight change that will minimize scum movement if this where the case. I also took note that the way you suggested the plan was pro-town. So, I took at look at your plan in the event that you flipped town. Unfortunately, I don't think any plan would work best if today's Lynch is on town. The plan you suggested would only work if the last scum lies in LM/Xis/Cheery/me (vigged). If any of Jake, Safety, or Jal is scum, Then It won't matter if any of the LM/Xis/Cheery is scum (Since I would be dead). What worries me the most of your plan is that Jake is not featured in it. Clearly, Jake has a tracker card, so that means he is an asset. I also understand you not including him because you have a town read on him. But personally, I am real worried about Jake.

Also, Why is it a problem for me (as town) who thinks that you (Medhi) is scum, to try to create a countermeasure for your plan if you flip scum. Curious, I liked your plan as a Medhi-scum scenario. So, I gave the reason why I think your plan is flawed, if you flip town. It only works if Jake/Jal/Safety are town. But I disagree with that, Primarily because of Jake. If jake is Scum, and you are town, then that plan would lead to a scum victory.

As I write this, I remembered something about mafia. Mafia is won with risks. So, considering that, If I am mistaken about Medhi, then it's possible that I am mistaken about Jake. Which would mean that Medhi's plan will work if he flips town. So let's do it as originally intended. Except that I would like the suggestion that I added for when Medhi is scum.

[guille2015]

Are we going with what medhi posted earlier? If everyone wants me to I well track mhork again, but it just doesn't feel right to me to repeat the same action.

Considering this: If Medhi and LM had been tracked together (correct me if I'm wrong.) Which means that if Medhi flips scum, then LM cannot be scum with him. So tracking him is pointless. So, if Medhi flips scum, cheery can track someone else.

[guille2015]

Really annoyed actually, that no one has mentioned the list post I did. That took me ages (the text, not the photo) yet no one has mentioned anything and only mehdi has claimed new info. What the hell?

I actually found it real awesome, and thanks for the effort. I didn't have time to comment on it, since I didn't have anything to say about it.

As I looked back at it. And I think it is important that the Purple card be claimed if it's in the hands of town. If it is in the hands of scum there is nothing we can do.

[guille2015]

Nobody should be making a list of their town/scum reads

This shouldn't matter at all at this point. Everyone has pretty much said their reads. It's fairly easy for scum to compile this, if they haven't already. So, making a town/scum list would not harm town play.

[guille2015]

If scum is hiding that card, it must be due to a reason. It might be because they want to hide a particular power. Because of this, only a purple card carrying player would hide that power. Jal and Jake each have a purple card. If scum recieved that card and it had no power with it, aka they did not have another Purple card, then they would have claimed it, when they received it. Why hide something that revealing would make them look better? So the last card purple card must have gone to Jal or Jake. If anybody else received the card, they would have claimed it.

I see what safety was trying to do. I tried to get a bit more out in #2174 so that nobody will play ignorant and say that they have the remaining purple card.

@Mod: Can you confirm that everyone has received all the cards appropriately.

Unvote: Medhi

Just making sure no one hammers, until we have resolved this purple card issue.

[guille2015]

From what I understand there is the brown Vig properties which are purple in the original Monopoly game. Then there are the Violet Charles, State and Virginia ave. properties, one of which is missing. Those last three are the purple ones that Safety is referring too.

When exactly did you receive the purple cars?

[guille2015]

*Card!

[guille2015]

Sorry I meant Baltic and med

[guille2015]

Sweet. Safety watches Jal. Jake watches safety.

[guille2015]

Sad to see medhi go like this.

So, what is the game plan for tonight?

[guille2015]

I don't remember when we decided that Safety was going to track Cheery. And Xis was supposed to cop Cheery. I think you inverted those.

[guille2015]

Once done, I'll put my vote on Mehdi, Guille why did you unvote?

I did not want an accidental Hammer, especially while discussing the missing Purple card. I was just being cautious. Not that it matters at this point.

[guille2015]

I don't remember when we decided that Safety was going to track Cheery. And Xis was supposed to cop Cheery. I think you inverted those.

that was the list mehndi created, all I did was copy and paste and make changes based on the whole Jal thing.

Oh, I didn't realize that he changed his plan. I think, that plan was based on lynching LM not him.

[guille2015]

Player	Power	Target
Jake	Watcher	Safety
Safety	Watcher	Jal
Safety	Tracker	Cheery
Cheery	Tracker	Jake
Xis	Cop	Safety
Jal	Vig	guille

I like this for if Medhi flips scum. It tests Jake/Cherry/Safety. If Medhi flips scum, LM is auto town. So, it ends up leaving Jal and Xis as untested. It should be an easy game if Medhi flips scum.

If Medhi flips town, considering that it would leave us at a disadvantage. I'd have to say that Jal shooting is bad, especially if she hits town. That said, I'd rather she shoot LM than me, because I know I am town and everybody else is an asset. I see no reason why Xis will cop Safety, if Medhi is town. Jal needs absolute protection (which is covered by the table. and that will give us scum for sure. Xis should cop me/LM or Cheery. If Xis is copping Cheery then Safety should track Xis not Cheery. If Xis is copping me/LM then Safety tracking Cheery is fine.

@

Anyone

: can somebody compile the results for actions and results for Night 1 and 2. I want to make sure of something.

[guille2015]

Why is Mhork auto-town if Mehdi flips scum?

Because Medhi and LM where both tracked on the same night.

[guille2015]

Guille, you realize that Mehdi and Safety have been dancing a 1v1 for days now? Why would I investigate Safety if Mehdi was scum?

Well, that's the only one. Jake and Cheery are tracked, you investigated Jal. LM is conftown. The only ones left to check are Safety and Xis. That's a total win scenario.

[guille2015]

Deadline is in about 7 hours.

I'll be sure to hammer.

Is there anything else that needs taken cared off?

[guille2015]

Vote medhi

This is as late as I can be paying attention. If there is anything to discuss do it befor GNR closes.

[guille2015]

I think I played badly. In retrospect I think I shouldn't have tunneled Medhi as hard as I did. I also didn't noticed both scum DPing me in the neighborhood.

I don't blame Jake for the loss either, since If I was in the same shoes, I'd have also voted for Xis.

I liked the game. And thought it was fun. Scum did a very good job. I think using lurker like that was actually quite brilliant.

[guille2015]

Because I was certain that I had no power in this game. Players didn't trust me. So, getting vigged would have removed my randomness from the game. I did suggest to get Mhork vigged rather than me, but being the one in target, means I didn't have much power in what I said. I don't know if my attitude was the correct, but winning with town makes me more inclined to sacrifice myself and retroactively have my ideas strengthened. As it was, I felt I had very little pull in this game and in lylo I would have been a dangerous person to be with.

[guille2015]

Xis why did you not claim the purple card day 3?

I think Medhi is asking is why didn't you say you had the purple card when everyone was saying that whoever has the purple card is scum!

[guille2015]

After Day 2, Before Night 2

• Mehdi2277 - Tennesse Ave (orange), New York Avenue (Orange)
• guille2015 - St. James Place (Orange), Illinois Avenue (Red), B&O Railroad
• Jal - Short Line Railroad, St. Charles Place (Purple), Vermont Avenue (Light green), Park Place (Blue), Reading Railroad
• Xisiqomelir - Ventor Avenue (Yellow), Marvin Gardens (Yellow), Virginia Ave (Purple)

This is when you received the card. So you did have it when we were discussing, who had it.

[guille2015]

Well, Xis Cheery and mhork. trusted me. The rest either wanted me killed or didn't care. At the time there wasn't a mayority on people not liking me, but there were plenty that given enough time, I think me being in Lylo would have guaranteed a town loss. It's irrelevant now though.

[guille2015]

That's understandable.

[guille2015]

What off the community and chance cards?