Mini 1397: War is Hell (Game Over)

[Yosarian2]

Hi, everyone.

refresh my memory on what youre referring to.

Apologies for bringing up pansy angel decision-planning.

'tajo talked about a fake voting system (I can keep VCs if we go this way), only Hurting people decided by consensus.
Fonzie had a "buddy" system, where Hurts would be called out by a player and required another's support to go through.

Personally, especially with the alteration in the Heal mechanic, I'd rather use 'tajo's method. There isn't much of a risk in dragging because we only increase HP-from-Heal when Rage accumulates, and The Fonz's buddy method can be disastrous. Yes, voting is slow, but we don't have deadlines, and it creates patterns that are easier to study than the buddy plan.

I agree with this. A voting system is pretty key; especally with the unpredictable rage mechanic, we do not want to be in a situation where damage gets spread out and everyone gets hurt every day, because that makes it much easier for scum to just blitz in endgame and wipe us out. Last war in heaven game I played, scum had daytalk, which makes it even more dangerous.

So, yeah; let's figure out who we want to lynch, give them a chance to claim if they wish, and then just focus damage on that one person. A fake-voting system is a reasonable way to do that.

[Yosarian2]

, I want everyone else to think about Mass Claim and see if they think it might be a good idea here.

Specifically, claiming why type of role you have, names aren't necessary really, nor are powers. I think if we can split the town a little bit, we might have an easier time finding scum.

I'm not really in favor of mass claim in general. Not really sure how it'll good do.

One thing I *REALLY* do not want to see is to see people claim how many hitpoints they have. Once we decide to lynch someone, we will be able to kill them, I'm not worried about that. However, if scum know how many hitpoints everyone has, it makes it much easier for them to pull off an endgame blitz.

So, we do *NOT* want to know how many hitpoints anyone has, and I'd rather people not discuses the issue at all. I guess if you're 1-3 hitpoints away from death feel free to claim that just so that we know we're hammering you, but short of that, I don't want to hear it.

[Yosarian2]

I like the "heal everyone" plan. Might as well get everyone to hp +1 asap.

HEAL: charter.

[Yosarian2]

Thinking about it, we kind of are on a time limit here. If rage accumulates at random intervals, then whenever X time passes, the scum group can just all rage-dump and kill someone. We...might be able to catch them doing that, especially if we follow the "town claim whenever we use rage" rule, but it's dodgy; I think time is not on our side here in this game. We don't want to let the day drag on forever here.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah. I was scum with her in that game, although I only replaced in late, and yeah, we co-ordinated everything with daytalk in that game. We have to be prepared for similar shenanigans this game.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, back from thanksgiving weekend, catching up.

I don't care that Zdenek didn't understand the healing mechanics right away, but I dislike the OMGUS vote for Kinetic here:

I think that the only town use of rage is to speed up lynches. Otherwise it should not be used. There is absolutely no reason for town to claim the use under these circumstances. It benefits town for the scum to not know who has accumulated rage.

this is starting to get beyond the point where it can be excused. His lack of understanding seems to be to try and get information on how to avoid suspicious behavior, when all a townie needs to know is claim rage and everyone else in the game understands that.

If it was so obvious that the rage accumulation health point that we get can raise us over the the base amount, you would have explained here.

Kinetic has tried twice now to paint me as scummy. The first time is over the disagreement about whether or not to claim all uses of rage. Personally, I don't see this as necessary at all, I think that doing it will out town power roles and I think that it benefit town to have scum not know who has accumulated rage. In response to this, Kinetic has simply repeated his belief that it's a positive thing for town to claim and suggested that it might be helpful in scum hunting, but has given absolutely no concrete reason for why he holds this belief. The second time is over what may or may not be a misunderstanding about how the health point for rage accumulation works. Here he's given no reason for why it's so obvious that his interpretation should be the correct one. It could be, but that's not the point. The point is that if it's not obvious, then he has no reason to suspect me over a difference in understanding about mechanics.

Vote: Kinetic

Also, there is a very, very good reason for town to claim rage; if town claims whenever they use rage, then it makes it a lot harder for scum to dump rage for surprise daykills, and easier to catch them if they try.

fos:Zdenek

for the OMGUS

On page 7, we get this exchange:

Heh, bugger that, he'll just spin a pretty tale.
MattP is scum. I don't recall any instances in which he was doing this pussy-footing I'll-wait-for-when-you-get-back as Town. In a game where votes count less than normal (and FoSes are ridiculous, quadz), Matt being this disinterested with unleashing unholy fire on someone (anyone) is just

not him

.

VOTE: MattP

PEdit: Oh there you are. Hi!

I have a target. I am not going to compromise my target. While my target was here I was aggressively questioning him. He is taking a 4 day break from the thread, but I am not going to suddenly become uninterested in him because of that. But don't worry lil babe, after him you're next on my list

I like Tierce's case here, and I hate hate hate HATE hate hate Matt's response.

I mean, really. "Don't worry lil babe, after him you're next on my list"?

My knee jerk reaction is "kill it with fire." My considered, calm, rational decision is "fucking nuke it from orbit". That kind of bitchy, whiny OMGUS just screams scum to me.

fos:MattP

VOTE: Tierce

Wah wah wah Matt's pussy footing

Good job having a tantrum and outing yourself, ask me how much of a fuck I give about your intelligible tissy fit, scum

And here, have some more

fos

[Yosarian2]

Ok, caught up.

Vote:MattP

[Yosarian2]

Mon 26 Nov 2012 02:33:01

Catch up until 158.

Mon 26 Nov 2012 02:34:51

All caught up.

Nothing interesting happened on page 8.

[Yosarian2]

Nothing interesting happened on page 8.

And you knew that in less than 2 minutes?

(shrug) Page 8-9 was:

LLD agrees with my case on you

Kinetic is suggesting ways to deal with possible time issues I discussed (which might not be as bad as I expected)

ZD defends Matt for weak reasons

ZD attacks Kinetic again for bad reasons (basically just "Kinetic is discussing game theory stuff")

Kinetic continues to attack ZD

Back and fourth with Kinetic and ZD, mostly repeating arguments arleady made

Tierce would rather lynch Matt then ZD

A lot more back and fouth between Kinetic and Zd

Not really anything in there I wanted to comment on at the moment, since none of it changed my opinions on anything, although I will look back on it once we get a scum flip or two.

And, yeah, since you're so worried about time; it only took me maybe 5 minutes to type up a summery of all of page 8 and 9; reading it without doing that went a lot faster then that.

[Yosarian2]

1) I DID do something that is inevitably at some point in this game going to get me lynched, I've practically completely fucked my chance to get to endgame

Interesting. You talking about the Tierce OMGUS here?

[Yosarian2]

We definitely don't want to wait too long to lynch, but arbitrarily reducing the lynch threshold to 5 is a horrible idea because it will significantly reduce the value of vote count analysis and somewhat player's accountability for their votes (a la, I was voting for pressure and a couple of people piled on or i was V/LA and people piled on, and things of that ilk). We should aim to get majorities, and only consider reduced thresholds when it seems necessary, for instance we probably don't have to go faster than every two weeks.

Also, there is a very, very good reason for town to claim rage; if town claims whenever they use rage, then it makes it a lot harder for scum to dump rage for surprise daykills, and easier to catch them if they try.

People keep repeating this. I still have no clue why people think it, but evidently we can't have a reasonable discussion about it because then the scum might figure out what's going on, so I'm just going to say that later on, you're going to have to explain it.

Actually, I just thought it was obvious (and I might as well explain it, I'm sure the scum have already figured all this out).

If we all claim how much rage we have, and claim when we get rage, and then claim when we use rage, then scum probably have to lie in order to rage-dump. If scum lie in order to rage-dump, then we might be able to test them by making people we suspect use their rage when we want to lynch someone. If someone claims to never have used rage, and yet they don't have any when we tell them to use it, and the whole scum group just dumped rage to daykill someone, and all the town people have accumulated a fair amount of rage, then they're probably lying scum.

It's obviously not foolproof, but at least it makes it harder for the scum.

[Yosarian2]

And thats one of three plans the scum now definitely know. -.-

It's all right. We were never going to trap them with something that obvious. But if we can screw up their ability to make kills, we're way ahead of the game.

[Yosarian2]

Even if we don't claim when we accumulate rage, as town uses it and claims their use of it, that will let scum know roughly how much rage town has at different points in the game, facilitating their lies.

Eh, I'm not really worried. Scum pretty much have to one-shot a townie with rage in order to beat our healing, and I doubt they're going to be able to do that without dumping all their rage, which is something we can test.

Again, though; we can claim rage or not, but NO ONE is going to claim how many hitpoints you have, ok?

[Yosarian2]

All of the scum are in these 7. Kanye, Quadz, Tierce, Kinetic and Zdenek are town. If you don't mislynch them we win.

Can you explain why you think Zdenek is town? Is it just that he keeps defending you?

[Yosarian2]

All of the scum are in these 7. Kanye, Quadz, Tierce, Kinetic and Zdenek are town. If you don't mislynch them we win.

Can you explain why you think Zdenek is town? Is it just that he keeps defending you?

Just for the record, Zdenek is town

Oh look I have a read on him

This was before Zdenek had referred to me whatsoever. Is it really necessary to literally try to skew everything I say into scum intent without even attempting to fairly read me?

I am trying to get a read on you, Matt. That's why I'm asking you questions about your reads.

So can you explain why you think Zdenek is town?

[Yosarian2]

unvote:MattP

Not real happy with his play, but it does feel a lot like his play in my last game with him when he was town, and I don't really see a plausable scum motivation for a lot of it. I'm going to call him null-ish for now, and I don't want to leave my vote there (especially not if Kinetic is serious about wanting to start hurting anyone with 5 votes on them).

I will say, Matt, that I think this kind of posting is anti-town, and I would like it if you knocked it off:

Dear MattP,

Any time your targets aren't pathetically easy, feel free to let me know. I won't bother replying to your posts until then.

Love, hellfire and brimstone,
-- Tierce

You are actually hilarious, so I'm completely ignoring you for the rest of this game.

Also, I still would like you to explain your read on Zdenek.

On another note,

Vote:Albert

Get in here and play, ABR, we need to hear from you.

[Yosarian2]

That's cool. Bring it bitches.

From the lowest depths of hell, Duke Berith unleashes the pain of a thousand lost souls. It strikes the warty hide of the disguised angel Kinetic, and pain shoots through him like fire and short-circuits his hidden halo.

HURT: Kinetic


@quadz- Do you really want me to show your "opinions" so far this game?

I wasn't sure about joining this wagon, but the fact that he's "shooting back" is a pretty damn solid scumtell in my book.

Vote:PeregineV

HURT: PeregineV

Now that we've started, and he's started shooting back, we need to kill him quickly before he does much damage.

[Yosarian2]

Also, are we going to wait until 5, 6, or 7 votes until people start hurting me again, or are you just going to continue down the current path?

Just to clarify:

I'm normally not in a hurry to start killing, but once a scum goes into "I'm being killed must do as much damage as I can before I die", we need to kill that scum ASAP, for obvious reasons.

So once someone starts shooting back, they die, just as fast as we can kill them.

By the way, if you do want to claim or something, do it now.

[Yosarian2]

The second you hurt him Kinetic, even if it's within the rules, it opens him up to hurt you back if he thinks your scum. No player should ever have to sit there and watch as the town kills them without being able to present their own case.

No.

If you are town, and the town has decided to lynch you, your job is to A: convince the town to not lynch you, and B: convince the town to lynch someone else instead. Just like in any other game. Firing random shots at that point is totally unhelpful, and is pure anti-town behavior.

Keep defending yourself until the point of death, sure, keep making cases against other people, but attacking is bad, and could easily push us in to MAD syndrome.

[Yosarian2]

Now that we've started, and he's started shooting back, we need to kill him quickly before he does much damage.

Why didn't you heal Kinetic instead? He was down one, and you think he's town.

I intend to heal Kinetic as soon as I regenerate the hitpoint I used at the start of the game. Of course, you will hopefully be dead before that happens.

If you want to convince me that hurting Kinetic is somehow justified, then explain how hurting Kinetic and thus forcing the rest of the town to waste resources healing him back up helps the town.

[Yosarian2]

Either we do it like cowboys and shoot off our suspects or we play the civilized normal way and vote each other. I don't understand why we need to heal and quite frankly I don't completely understand the rules yet so if someone wants to explain to me why I'm supposed to heal scooby that would be great.

Everyone healing everyone will boost everyone to HP+1 as soon as the next rage point comes.

Over the course of the game, the only kill the scum are likely to get is based on them doing hitpoint damage to us, probably with rage (or possibly rage + actual attacks, depending on how blatent they want to be). They might get more rage then we do, we don't know. In any case, everyone being at hp +1 should make it harder for scum to kill anyone, and it doesn't significantly interfere with our being able to lynch people.

[Yosarian2]

And I've already claimed, so why the fake request?

I went back to look at your posts, and this is all I see:

That's cool. Bring it bitches.

From the lowest depths of hell, Duke Berith unleashes the pain of a thousand lost souls. It strikes the warty hide of the disguised angel Kinetic, and pain shoots through him like fire and short-circuits his hidden halo.

HURT: Kinetic

Was that supposed to be a claim? Are you planning to do anything more then a name-claim?

I mean, if you don't want to claim, then fine, we'll just continue killing you, but all this thrashing around about me "shutting off discussion" and calling me giving you a last chance a "fake request" just makes you look more scummy to me.

If you wanted to discuss stuff more, if you didn't want to force our hand, then you shouldn't have shot. And the fact that you're STILL saying you are going to continue shooting just makes it worse. Do you really think the rest of the town is just going to sit back and let you and Kinetic slowly ping each other to death? That would be pretty much the dumbest thing we could possibly do.

Here, let me make this simple for you: confirm right now that you're not going to shoot at all again today unless the votes agree with you, or else it's time to post any last words you want to say before you die. We have no time for anything else.

[Yosarian2]

Can you suggest to me a better way of making people who hurt onto a wagon accountable for their hurts?

I'm not sure how that's really an issue. Everyone can always be held accountable for any decision they make in a mafia game. When I decide to hurt someone, then I would expect everyone to analyze it and decide if my action had a pro-town or an anti-town motivation. Conversely, if someone is voting for someone but is reluctant to hurt them even at majority vote, then that is also something I would consider suspicious if the target of the wagon turns out to be scum. Also, I'll go as far to say that I don't really care if we start shooting at 5 votes or at 7; so long as a plurality of people seem to be in favor of lynching someone, then I think you're free to use your judgement.

Once someone starts spazzing out and shooting people on their own without support from the rest of the town, though, then we need to put them down like a mad dog as quick as we possibly can. That's just the nature of the game mechanics; we can't afford to have anyone going rogue on us, or the whole system will break down into a bloody melee, probably quickly followed by a scum win.

[Yosarian2]

Dislike Rampage now, especially his "lone cowboy" like attitude.

Yos, I get where you're coming from with the "kill the lone star" mentality, but why didn't you wait until after someone else voted Pere?

I'm not sure what you mean; once I voted for him, I believe he was at 5 votes.

[Yosarian2]

He's been at 4 for awhile, now. Else PV wouldn't have raised such a stink this afternoon.

He was, yes. But I wasn't voting for him at the time. Then I voted him, putting him at 5 votes, and then I hurt him.

[Yosarian2]

Just think of mine as the hammer vote.

[Yosarian2]

Or just look at the votecount:

Pseudo Votecount 1.6

(5)

PeregrineV

- Tierce, quadz08, Kinetic, Voidedmafia, Yosarian2
(2)

MattP

- Xalxe, Albert B. Rampage
(1)

Kinetic

- PeregrineV

(0)

Albert B. Rampage

-

(Yosarian2)

(5)

Not voting

-

(Albert B. Rampage,)

kanyeknowsbest, scooby, MattP, Lady Lambdadelta, Zdenek


Let me know if there are any mistakes.

[Yosarian2]

I know jacksquat about Yos's meta, Zdenek, so don't expect me to answer that question in any way.

I may not have been explicit in mentioning this, but his recent play is making me question my townread on him.

...the part where I voted for the guy you also are voting for, but are refusing to hurt? or the part where I hurt PeV when he was at 5 votes?

Anyway, I see his is STILL hurting Kinetic, so he apparently doesn't want to live.

HURT: PeregrineV

[Yosarian2]

Ah, I see Voidedmafia did, in fact, hurt PeregrineV yesterday afternoon. That makes his continued chainsaw defense of him even more baffling.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, got that hurt in, so now I have time to respond in a little more detail:

Well according to Yosarian, we are not claiming HP. If I claim a power role, I'll still be killed, because the hurts came before I even logged back on. Pretty much within 25 hours of the initial hurt.
Excellent timing.

Uh. What? Why would you have been killed if you claimed a power role? Yes, you'd already been hurt, but if you convinced us you were a power role or something then we could heal you back up.

You also could (or could have) claimed rolename in a more explicit way, you could have claimed role flavor, you could have claimed rage, you could have claimed any role abilities. I did say that I don't want anyone claiming hitpoints unless you're almost dead (just so we know when we hammer you) but you could claim anything else.

If you were a power role, then yeah, you could argue it was a mistake for Kinetic to hurt you before asking for a claim. You're not, though; in fact, you're probably scum.

And this seems to indicate that if I do claim, you will not continue to kill me. Let's see how that works out.

Actually, I specifically said that if you hurt anyone else again, then we would have to kill you.

Ok, as of post 569, I won't be shooting unless someone shoots me.

Not enough, PeV. If everyone shoots someone "because they're shooting me", then we end up with a half dozen townies pinging at each other, causing mass town death. You can only shoot someone if you have the votes agreeing with you, or else everyone dogpiles you ASAP. That's the only way this works.

[Yosarian2]

Ah, I see Voidedmafia did, in fact, hurt PeregrineV yesterday afternoon. That makes his continued chainsaw defense of him even more baffling.

Chainsaw defense? I find some of your actions suspect. Why does that mean I'm automatically chainsaw defending?

(shrug) It appears that you are attacking me for hurting PeregirneV. You have not really been able to explain why you have a problem with me doing that, at least not in any way that makes sense, and I find that especally odd since you were voting for him at the time.

So, yeah, if you can offer some other explanation for your actions, that would be good. At the moment, if PeregirneV flips scum, you are going to be high on my suspect list, because it looks to me like you were both distancing from him and trying to deter people from killing him at the same time.

[Yosarian2]

Ah, I see Voidedmafia did, in fact, hurt PeregrineV yesterday afternoon. That makes his continued chainsaw defense of him even more baffling.

Chainsaw defense? I find some of your actions suspect. Why does that mean I'm automatically chainsaw defending?

(shrug) It appears that you are attacking me for hurting PeregirneV.

Well...if you recall, I got on you because I thought you were hurting him without the prerequisite 5 votes. I won't deny that "hurting PV" hasn't been part of my angle, but that phrase isn't the entire thing.

You have not really been able to explain why you have a problem with me doing that, at least not in any way that makes sense, and I find that especally odd since you were voting for him at the time.

Answered above. Also, I'll probably have to refresh myself on what exactly I disliked, but I feel like the other parts weren't directly related to you hurting PV.

because it looks to me like you were both distancing from him and trying to deter people from killing him at the same time.

I'm voting and hurting him, but at the same time I'm trying to stop people from hurting him? Do you not see how convoluted that sounds if I'm scum trying to bus/distance PV? Also, even if that's the case, so far I've only objected to you hurting PV and not anyone else; if your explanation here is in any way true, why just attack you and not everyone else?

From my PoV, this was what happened:

1.I put PV at 5 votes, and hurt him

2. You attacked me for hurting him, claiming he wasn't at 5 votes.

3. I pointed out you were wrong.

4. You gave this oddly reluctant agreement ("Eh...I guess..."). For some reason you seemed unwilling to commit to more then that. And the tone seems odd, if you were, in fact, in support of the PV wagon/

5. You eventually gave in and hurt PV, several hours later.

6. However, you continued to attack me, giving no new reasons since #2

If you had some other reason for suspecting me, or some other justification for your behavior, I'd be interested to hear it. As it is now, your behavior looks suspicious to me, especially so if PV flips scum.

[Yosarian2]

I'm here. Feeling a little under the weather, though, and I'm feeling a little lost on this game now, I really need to go back to the beginning and make a full re-read before I can contribute much.

[Yosarian2]

yah scoobers is town i forget why i had him as town before but it doesnt matter nemore. ur wrong abt matt tho.

why do u think yos is scum scoobs?

STRATEGIC POSTING, LURKINESS, EXCESIVE APOLOGIZING, HIS CASES SUCK DICK, NOT NORMLA TOWN YOSA, HE BUSSDE MATTP WHEN HE WAS HATED THEN SWTICHED TO SOME DUDE, ETC

What the hell are you talking about? I attacked Matt for a while, then I had doubts about my case and unvoted him because his play seemed too much like his play last time I played with him when he was town. (His behavior towards Zdenek, and his day 1 play in general, feels just like his behavior towards Rayfrot in this game; and so does his randomally flipping out. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=23150. I still don't like it, I just have trouble calling it a scumtell with his meta.) I sure as hell haven't "lurked" this game, that's just pure bullshit and you know it, unless you mean not being able to post for a day at the start of day 2. As for my cases "sucking dick"; I've made two cases this game, Matt and PeregrineV; you apparently agree with my Matt case, and there's no way in hell you could think my PV case "sucked dick". And I don't know what "strategic posting" means, but I'm pretty sure that's bullshit too.

So, again; what the hell are you talking about?

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, sorry my posting has been crap this week; like I said earlier this week, I'm kind of sick at the moment.

Anyway, I'm having trouble focusing on this game, so I'm just going to sheep Kinetic here for the moment.

Vote:Zdenek

In the Kinetic/Zdenek wallposts, Zdenek looks a lot worse, and of course it's scummy as hell that he's trying to get me lynched for not posting much when I already said that I'm sick.

[Yosarian2]

ABR is town, quadz is town, LLD is town. Kinetic is likely town, Tierce is likely town based on day 1 posting.

I'm thinking the scum group includes both Zdenek and scooby. I still don't know how to read MattP, maybe we'll get a better idea after his exams are done.

[Yosarian2]

Because it's Zdenek being himself. Votes on him are stupid. Don't expect me to defend him further, he's a pain in the ass in the best of circumstances and quickly turning into my pet policy lynch target. I will

not

, however, vote or Hurt him, and you lot should be using your time more productively than with him. He's Town.

Can you explain why you think he's town? If it's gut read, can you at least point me to the post of his that gives you that read?

[Yosarian2]

1000 points to anyone who can find where I said anything about having a problem with the amount Yos is posting.

Right now, I am voting Yos, who's response to my vote was to lie about the reason that I am voting him.

Well, let's see what was the reason you gave for voting me. Oh, right.

This seems like more fun.

Vote: Yosarian

Scooby voted me for lurking. You followed him and joined the bandwagon because "it seemed like fun" and did not give ANY other reason at all at the time of your vote. The logical assumption was that you agreed with his reason. (Yes, you had mentioned like a week before that you didn't like my "pattern of voting", because I was using "boilerplate scum tells" or whatever, but that was a BS attack that didn't actually mean anything and you had never followed up on it.)

But, sure, you didn't explicitly say you were voting me for lurking. Actually, I'm thinking that you're voting me because you're scum and don't really have any real reasons at all.

[Yosarian2]

ABR is town, quadz is town, LLD is town. Kinetic is likely town, Tierce is likely town based on day 1 posting.

I'm thinking the scum group includes both Zdenek and scooby. I still don't know how to read MattP, maybe we'll get a better idea after his exams are done.

Confirm VOTE YOSARIAN2

There is no way you think Im scum when Im TOWNIER THAN FUCKING TOWN

Shit defense is shit.

[Yosarian2]

In fact it would have made NO sense for you to call me out on that the way you did unless you thought it was a scumslip or you were trying to incriminate me, so I want to you explicitly state why it was a scumslip.

SCUM

UNVOTE VOTE MATTP

MattP is looking townier, and Scooby is looking more and more like scum. This post on Scooby's part is 100% bullshit.

[Yosarian2]

1) Kinetic, Yos, and Zdenek are town. I greatly foresee town pushing through me, Zdenek and Yos as the next three mislynches. I will defend them vehemently. I will be coming up with my Zdenek is town case first to get back to whoever asked me about that

For the record, after this post, I am about 85% sure that MattP is town.

Look at the wagons. If I was going to guess the 4 most likely people to be lynched today, it'd be Zdenk, MattP, me, and then maybe Kinetic. If MattP was scum, no way in hell would he defend *all* of the likely easy lynches today, especally not when he's one of the ones on the list. He's not playing tactically, the way I would expect a scum to.

Scooby attacking Matt after this post (especially on the improbable theory that him saying "town" here is somehow a scum slip) just makes Scooby look even worse to me here.

[Yosarian2]

Looks we have retarded town all over again.
Mattp and Yosa are scum. Please remember that.
Nrever lynch kanye, kinetic, tierce or abr. zdenek is prob third party now that I think about it. okay.
peace.

So much wrong with this post.

Zdenek votes for you, and suddenly he's "third party"? Really?

Vote:Scooby

[Yosarian2]

Because I woke up three hours ago and your post reminded that this game exists and that you are scum.

What do you think about Scooby?

[Yosarian2]

Matt is a top player...just remember that. If he can talk his way past Yosarian, he's not someone you take lightly.

So, he must be dangerous scum because Yosarian thinks he's probably not scum? Lol.

I just don't see his play here as being scum motivated here, and most of the issues people have with them are things that I've seen him do as town.

You say he's a strong player; fine. What has he done this game that hypothetically speaking helps his position as scum? What posts has he made that seem actually scum motivated to you?

[Yosarian2]

Why you, though? No one else was attacking you at all. If he was looking for an easy lynch, why not go after someone else?

[Yosarian2]

I will say that if Scooby flips scum, then Zdenek might actually be town. The fact that Scooby called Zdenek town for most of the game, but then changed it to"third party" in response to Zdenek attacking him, makes me think "Scooby-scum, Zdenek-not scum with Scooby".

[Yosarian2]

I personally would like to see us wait until we get a majority, unless this drags on for too long.

That being said, it's probably time for Scooby to claim, if he wants to.

Before we start hurting I want to assign three townreads to do the hurting.

KANYE, ABR and VM are obvtown and I vote them.

I'm not sure I see the logic behind this. Why have only a few "designated hitters" here, what's the advantage to that?

[Yosarian2]

Because if Scooby is town then hasn't there been a previous scum game where all scum in the hurt pile gained rage? This has been mentioned several times now

Ah; limit the pool of attackers to limit the amount of rage scum get, that makes sense.

I was thinking that we might want to force some of the more suspicious people in the game to use their rage on Scooby.

[Yosarian2]

I will say that if Scooby flips scum, then Zdenek might actually be town. The fact that Scooby called Zdenek town for most of the game, but then changed it to"third party" in response to Zdenek attacking him, makes me think "Scooby-scum, Zdenek-not scum with Scooby".

Okay, interesting a point this may be, why bring it up now, and why bring it up the way you did?

This is kind of an odd question. If I have an observation that affects my read on someone's alignment, especially someone I've been attacking all day, then why wouldn't I share it?

[Yosarian2]

I will say that if Scooby flips scum, then Zdenek might actually be town. The fact that Scooby called Zdenek town for most of the game, but then changed it to"third party" in response to Zdenek attacking him, makes me think "Scooby-scum, Zdenek-not scum with Scooby".

Okay, interesting a point this may be, why bring it up now, and why bring it up the way you did?

This is kind of an odd question. If I have an observation that affects my read on someone's alignment, especially someone I've been attacking all day, then why wouldn't I share it?

It just felt odd to me.

(shrug) I could have waited until after scooby was lynched and brought it up then, but I'm also somewhat interested to hear if scooby has anything to say about the subject of Zdenek now.

[Yosarian2]

Can you at least claim or something first, Scooby?

[Yosarian2]

Ok. We just got rage again, which means that everyone now has 3 rage points. Scum might have more, if they get rage for killing people.

This puts us into dangerous terratory, where scum might be able to ragedump and kill someone. I would like to suggest that we should have everyone who is considered suspicious, everyone who has been voted for today (which should be me, MattP, Kinetic, and Albert; I think that's it, if I missed anyone let me know) dump their rage on Scooby as soon as we decide to kill him. We should do it one by one, and then Flay's damage count should let us keep track of that.

This does two things. If we can make one or two scum dump all their rage, then that should make it impossible for them to just ragedump and kill someone in the near future. Also, if we do this and then the scum ragedump, it should be much easier to figure out who it is by process of elimination.

Am I missing anything here, or is this a good plan?

[Yosarian2]

Yup.

HURT: Scooby

Also, I've had a pretty longstanding townread on Tierce. No one post in particular I can think of right now, just consistent towniness. Kinetic would also be in that list for me, since I've just realized that I apparently derped and left him out.

Quadz, did you miss this?

Before we start hurting I want to assign three townreads to do the hurting.

KANYE, ABR and VM are obvtown and I vote them.

We shouldn't just randomly attack Scooby; Matt is right, we should limit the number of people who damage him to stop scum from generating rage.

[Yosarian2]

Oh, lol, I meant to include you, Zdenek.

If we are going to limit it to people who have had more then one other person vote them, then who does that leave? Me, Zdenek, and MattP? Kinetic, did you ever have more then one person vote you?

[Yosarian2]

My choices would be:

1. Kinetic. It might just be me, but on the last page it really felt like he was trying to avoid having to ragedump, and that makes me want him to.

2. Zdenek: I did say he's probably town if Scooby flips scum, but if Scooby flips scum I'm less worried about scum ragedumping in the immediate future anyway, because there'll be one less of them.

3. Tierce: I thought she was townish earlier in the game, but she hasn't really done anything all day at this point.

4. Xalxe

[Yosarian2]

There is something I've been thinking on Yos, and I'm not willing to divulge it yet. But it's making me look at the people wanting to rage dump suspiciously. And the fact that you brought it up is making me paranoid.

I'm brining it up for a simple reason.

1. Scum have a strong reason to not want to rage-dump. If we make scum rage-dump, it basically eliminates the scum night kill.

2. Town have no obvious reason to not want to rage-dump. The town can lynch people basically just as easily with or without rage-dump; rage dump can make the lynch happen slightly faster, and it might theoretically be relevant in some endgame situations, but it's pretty unlikely that a town rage-dumping at this point is going to hurt the town (at least not if we stick to The Plan (tm) and keep everyone at max hp).

3. Kinetic seems to strongly not want to rage dump.

Kinetic, the fact that it seems to me like you're trying to quick-talk yourself into not rage dumping, and have been since I mentioned the subject, really increases my level of suspicion on you, because I can see obvious scum motives for that and I can't see any town ones.

[Yosarian2]

If everyone has rage: What do scum have? That has been the question that has been rolling around in my mind this entire game. I've been trying to figure that out, what mechanics could it be. Is it simply more rage? Maybe, but if that's the case, rage-dumping would be useless. Scum would just have enough rage to both cover the "town amount" and perform extra kills.

Probably. They might get more rage from killing townies, like in previous games. But it's not useless at all; if scum have their normal rage and some extra rage, and we make them dump their normal rage, then that really cuts down on the number of kills they get. If scum only get extra rage when a townie dies, then making them dump their normal rage cuts the amount of rage the scum have by at least 3/4ths right now (we all have 3 normal rage points, scum might have 1 extra from the mislynch). Even if scum have more rage then that, it's still good to force scum to dump their rage.

What if it's actually connected to the town's rage though? What if scum gain extra rage every time the town rages? What if the scum are able to redirect someone's rage use? What is the scum can use rage for something else? What if the scum have both rage and another mechanic and rage dumping means nothing but gaining townie points?

That all seems really unlikely. If scum can "redirect rage", then better we find out now then in endgame. I highly doubt scum gain rage whenever townies use rage; scum gaining that much rage that fast could mean they get like 2 extra kills randomally in endgame, which would just be stupidly overpowered. If scum have both rage and another mechanic, then them dumping their rage still slows them down and makes it harder and slower for them to kill townies.

And we have Yos who is the proponent for it, running blindly into the field, and yet he's immediately down when someone who he should realize equally over thinks these things is showing trepidation.

I know that you over think things, sure; but i also know that you're smart enough and quick-witted enough that I would expect you, as scum, to expect to be able to talk your way out of having to use rage.

And by the way, back on page 44, it didn't seem like you were opposed to the idea of rage dumping. It just seemed like you really didn't want to do it personally.

Ok. We just got rage again, which means that everyone now has 3 rage points. Scum might have more, if they get rage for killing people.

This puts us into dangerous terratory, where scum might be able to ragedump and kill someone. I would like to suggest that we should have everyone who is considered suspicious, everyone who has been voted for today (which should be me, MattP, Kinetic, and Albert; I think that's it, if I missed anyone let me know) dump their rage on Scooby as soon as we decide to kill him. We should do it one by one, and then Flay's damage count should let us keep track of that.

This does two things. If we can make one or two scum dump all their rage, then that should make it impossible for them to just ragedump and kill someone in the near future. Also, if we do this and then the scum ragedump, it should be much easier to figure out who it is by process of elimination.

Am I missing anything here, or is this a good plan?

The issue I'm having with this is sort of two-fold. First, that's a rather large segment of the town. We should pick fewer people than nearly half the town if we're going to rage dump. Second, I don't really agree that I belong on that list. While one person thinks I'm suspicious, the rest of the town doesn't. In fact, I'm both on the "list of only townies that should hurt" and the "list of suspicious townies". How does that work?

I'm ok with Albert/Matt/Yos doing that though. Its a smaller group, that would be 9 damage which should all be used up without us worrying about someone getting any refunded rage and throwing things off too.

At this point, you didn't seem opposed to the idea of rage-dump. You just didn't think that you should be on the list. That sent up some serious red flags for me.

[Yosarian2]

I have no issue with dumping if that is what is needed. I have issue with you putting me on the "scummy" list when everyone has basically said I'm town. I don't generally like to refer to what others think and let my play and other players say those things for themselves, but when the only person who credibly thought I was scum was Zd and even he thinks I'm town now... I think certain, small groups of scummy players dumping is probably a good idea, but I don't think we should be doing it with large groups of 4-5. It spreads it out too far and if there is an issue with it, like one of the ones I brought up, than there is more places to hide.

I just made a list of everyone who got voted today, as a simple shortcut for who the scummier people are.

Honestly, I don't care all that much about who does it today. If we have 3-4 people ragedump today, and a different 3-4 people ragedump tomorrow, it should make it much harder to scum to kill with rage, and if they do it should make it easy to figure out who they are. It's really in our best interests to stop people from building up rage. If there was no rage in the game at all, and we follow The Plan and stick with voting, then this becomes a simple no-kill day-only game, and town tends do really well at those.

And I don't think scum gaining rage (maybe not 1-1, but maybe 2 or 3 to 1) when a townie uses rage would be overpowered. The entire town having rage is a VERY powerful mechanic.

Why? Once we decide to lynch, town can kill people almost as quickly with or without rage. The town having rage speeds lynches up slightly, but that's probably not a big deal, except possibly in some really dodgy hypothetical endgame scenarios. For the most part, I don't think "the whole town has rage" helps us much at all here.

If we're choosing 3, I like Xalxe, Zd, and Yos to throw honestly. Something about using rage at all though is not feeling right to me. I think we should at the very least take using rage slowly, maybe a test first to see what happens. If that's the case, I or someone else can test first, see what happens, and then go from there.

Well, I'm not suggesting we all go at once. I want to see one person dump their rage, and then wait for Flay's next vote-count (hitpoint count I guess) so we can confirm that it was used and exactly how much is used.

[Yosarian2]

Fate: Welcome to the game. I know it sucks to replace in to such a shitty position, but we're pretty sure the guy you're replacing is scum, and are already figuring out the logistics on how to kill him.

Some quick things you should know:

1. We have all agreed; no one is going to hurt anyone unless that person has 5 people voting to lynch them. This is the plan we are going with. If you break the plan and start lashing out, no matter who or what reasons you give, you WILL be dead within 48 hours, no matter what else you do or say. If you don't believe me, take a look at how day 1 ended. I want to hear your defense, I want to hear your thoughts on the game so far, and I want to hear your suspects, but if you start actually shooting at people we put you down like a rabid dog before you'll even know what hit you.

2. You currently have 5 votes on you, and the guy you're replacing (Scooby) looks really, really bad. If you want to claim, I would do it fast.

[Yosarian2]

Fate: Welcome to the game. I know it sucks to replace in to such a shitty position, but we're pretty sure the guy you're replacing is scum, and are already figuring out the logistics on how to kill him.

Some quick things you should know:

1. We have all agreed; no one is going to hurt anyone unless that person has 5 people voting to lynch them. This is the plan we are going with. If you break the plan and start lashing out, no matter who or what reasons you give, you WILL be dead within 48 hours, no matter what else you do or say. If you don't believe me, take a look at how day 1 ended. I want to hear your defense, I want to hear your thoughts on the game so far, and I want to hear your suspects, but if you start actually shooting at people we put you down like a rabid dog before you'll even know what hit you.

2. You currently have 5 votes on you, and the guy you're replacing (Scooby) looks really, really bad. If you want to claim, I would do it fast.

Seems scummy as all fuck

nice lil plan to keep the town in CHECK and UNDER CONTROL?

HURT: Yosarian

BRING

IT

ON

SCUM

You know, I was trying to give you a chance, but apparently, Fate has decided to die.

That's ok, he was probably scum anyway.

HURT: fate

I am also doing a full ragedump on Fate, right now. I want Zdenek and Kinetic to also rage dump ASAP, although we can wait until Flay announces the vote count for htat.

Also, since Fate has decided to start firing, we officially don't have time to mess around with picking specific people to hurt him. Everyone needs to start firing right now. It doesn't even matter if you agree with the lynch or not; once someone does this, they die fast, no exceptions. Ideally, we want him dead in the next 24 hours before he has a chance to fire again.

[Yosarian2]

Can we please go with the plan to limit the number of people hurting him? I still think it's a good idea, and with the rage dumps it won't be slow at all. He'll probably be dead before 24 hours are up. I'll rage dump after the next vc.

(shrug) If we can get this going fast enough, ok.

Quadz should continue to hurt him, since he has already done so. I'm also pretty convinced that MattP and LLD are town, so I would be fine with them hurting him. Just so long as he dies fast, I don't care.

Remember, this isn't just about Fate; we need to do whatever we have to in order to deter other people from doing this in the future.

[Yosarian2]

"SET PHASERS TO KILL DIE DIED DIE DONT LET HIM SPEAK"

CLASSIC

The fundamental problem here is that we need to keep everyone in this game at full hitpoints, so scum can't ragedump and kill people. If people start shooting on their own, then town loses. It's happened over and over again in these games.

Specifically, once a scum realizes he's dead, then he's going to try to hurt the town as badly as he can before he goes, so once we get to that point, we have to kill him as quickly as we can.

So, you had two choices. You could either have defended yourself and convinced us not to lynch you, or you could have started shooting and forced us to speedkill you.

I explained this to you because I didn't want to have to speedkill you, I wanted you to have a chance to read the game and then to actually hear what you had to say.

Instead, you decided to die. I guess because you knew you wouldn't be able to defend yourself, and wanted to do some damage on your way out? I donno, it doesn't matter anymore. If you want to claim, or give us some reads on someone before you're dead, do so now; you don't have much time left.

[Yosarian2]

Oh yeah and LLD is town

Agreed. I don't think Scum-LLD would defend Fate/Scooby in a situation like this the way she has been; assuming that the slot is scum, she probably would have bussed it days ago.

Also, her day 1 posting (the way she was willing to go against the whole town about theory stuff without worrying about how it might make her look, and yet didn't go off on her own and do anything anti-town) looks really townish to me.

[Yosarian2]

Can anybody honestly read Fate's posts from 47 + 48 and tell me they aren't from a scum standpoint? "LOOK AT YOU CHEEKY FUCKS HURTING ME AND TRYING TO GET ME KILLED IMMEDIATELY UPON REPLACING IN I AM GOING TO BE AS LOUD AND YELLY AS POSSIBLE IN THE HOPES THAT IT MAKES YOU STOP HURTING ME"

Come on now. There's no town motivation in his entrance to the game. Anyone who thinks otherwise is completely off their rocker. I won't be hurting him again unless I'm mutually agreed by the town to be one of the folks who should be ragedumping or whatever, but he needs to die.

Yes, that did not look like a town reaction to me. He's trying to just flat out aggro his way out of trouble without even reading the game.

By the way:

Quadz should continue to hurt him, since he has already done so.

If it works the same way it did in previous games, scum never get more then 1 rage point for a lynch, so now that you've hurt Scooby once, you might as well keep going. The hypothetical risk to the town doesn't increase any more at this point.

Also, quadz, Zdenek has already volunteered to be the second ragedumper at our next votecount. I really want Kinetic to be the third one, but I'm thinking he might refuse, and we don't have time to argue. If Kinetic refuses to dump rage, are you willing to be the third ragedumper for the day?

[Yosarian2]

EVERYONE HURT OR HEAL NOW! LLD is below full. If you are not on hurt/heal cooldown right now, Heal her RIGHT NOW. If someone heals her first, HEAL the person who healed them. Do it NOW!

This is a good plan.

[Yosarian2]

Woah. What the hell is going on? I guess the scum are killing me since I was confirmed town yesterday?

[Yosarian2]

Woah. What the hell is going on? I guess the scum are killing me since I was confirmed town yesterday?

Read the thread, I confirmed you're scum bud. GG.

I'm trying to read the thread right now. I haven't had a chance to look at it since abotu 5:00 AM yesterday, so I'm like 8 pages behind, and I don't know if I'll have time to read the whole thing before I have to leave for work today.

Anyway, of course I'm not confirmed scum. Me and Matt raged and killed Fate at the same time the scum killed someone with rage, so that means that me and Matt are confirmed town. I see that you're claiming raging me for 4; that's really stupid and anti-town of you, but I suppose it confirms you as town as well. Has anyone claimed the rest of the rage on me?

[Yosarian2]

Further: With Yos not confirming when his timer was up, it shows that he probably did not rage when he said he did, and instead was coordinating with his team to set up a kill. This fits perfectly with the second raging by Matt happening much later.

This is obvious nonesense. Of course I raged when I said I did. First of all, it's confirmed that me and Matt both raged, or else Fate would not be dead. And secondly, your whole idea for a plan would be incredibly stupid; Flay could have come into the thread and posted a votecount 20 minutes after I sent the rage in and claimed it in thread, and if I had lied, I would have been a proven liar. Claiming to use rage in thread and not instantly using it would never work as a plan, and that is obvious if you take a minute and think about it.

Anyway, we can discuss this more later, but if I could PLEASE get a few heals right now before a scum gets on and finishes me that would be very much appreciated. If you guys really want you can lynch me later, but don't let the scum kill me before we have a chance to talk this through.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, assuming that no one counterclaims either Kinetics or Tierece's use of rage, then they didn't kill Voidmafia (I guess unless Kinetics whole double-rage theory is true, but honestly that doesn't make a lot of sense. The scum almost certanly used both their normal rage and whatever extra rage they got to kill Voidmafia; I doubt there's any other way they could have done enough damage to kill him instantly, which would have to be greater then ten damage.)

So that leaves only:


Albert B. Rampage
charter Xalxe
kanyeknowsbest
Lady Lambdadelta
quadz08
Zdenek

as possible suspects.

We need to force more people to prove that they have rage. Our of those 6 people, 2-3 of them dumped all their rage less then 24 hours ago to kill Voidedmafia. All we have to do is force people to demonstrate their rage points right now, and we'll catch the scum who ragedumped on Voidedmafia.

[Yosarian2]

Damn it, Kinetic, we could win this game RIGHT NOW if you would just stop the stupid conspiracy theory and baseless speculation about magical scum powers and help me catch the guys who are lying and have no rage left right now.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, I have to go to work. I'll be back online this afternoon when I get home. Until then, you guys figure out how to test this and see who used their rage and hasn't claimed it.

If I do get lynched before I get back on, everyone please remember when I flip Count Halphas, Demon, that

MattP, Kinetic, and Tierece are confirmed town, and that at least 2, and possibly 3, scum are the people who don't have 4 rage point stocked up

. You guys should be able to figure out the rest. This should be a won game; if you guys throw this away I'm going to be very disappointed in you.

[Yosarian2]

Allright, I'm still alive. Let me now explain why Kinetic's entire case on me is complete and utter nonesense and garbage, and then I expect anyone who voted for me based this to justify to me how the hell anyone could have accepted this as a real case and used it as an excuse to vote for me, and why people were seriously considering killing me over this before even giving me a chance to respond..

Second, it does not account for Yos/Matt's rages. However, I have a theory on that. I think scum can double rage. They are able to rage on one person, and rage on someone else at the same time. It explains three major things, 1) Why Yos is scum for raging when he did (and consequently his entire rage plan), 2) Explains why Matt raged when he did when hurts would have been preferable at that time, explains the hour difference from when his rage timer SHOULD be up (before 9:39PM, because he MUST have sent his rage attack on Fate before then, or Zd's attack would have gone through) as opposed to when he said his timer is up (10:19 PM EST), and 3) It explains the "scum-mechanic" that I've been searching for and makes scum not be under-powered by the fact that town also have rage.

Further: With Yos not confirming when his timer was up, it shows that he probably did not rage when he said he did, and instead was coordinating with his team to set up a kill. This fits perfectly with the second raging by Matt happening much later.

This makes absolutly no sense, and I'm sure anyone who thinks about it for a second would realize it

Why would I lie about using rage? If I didn't want to use rage until whatever time, why not just say it later? It's obvious that I did use rage; it's mod-confirmed that I used it before 9:39 PM, as Kinetic already said. So why does the fact that I didn't bother to ping anyone mean anything? We already know that I used my rage.

Now, you're going to notice something weird in the next post, I sent a 4 rage attack in on Yos already, immediately after I hurt Tierce. I was not planning on confirming it was me this early, but I wanted to "prove" exactly how much rage I had at that moment. I though I was going to be in the "almost confirmed" town pool, but in the "suspicious" pool, because of the fact I had a cooldown when the kill happened. I was OK with this, because I thought all of the scum would be in that group with me and thus scum couldn't narrow me off with kills. At the same time, though, I wanted to be able to confirm I had all my rage still and couldn't have participated in the scum attack. I HAD planned to hold on to this tidbit into end game and then use it to prove I was town then if it was still needed.

However... I also thought Yos was completely town at that point. I didn't realize what I'd find when I analyzed this post and what I had.

Scum Confirmed: Yos and MattP
Last scum (if 3): LLD or Xalxe

Boom. GG Scum

Unvote;Vote: Yos

And the rest of the case...makes no sense at all. I don't even know what Kinetic is trying to say here. I'm guessing he has some kind of theory about some hypothetical scum ability, apparently pulled completely out of his ass, and thinks that somehow this has something to do with hte timing of when I sent my rage in?

I don't even get what he's trying to accuse me of, let alone how he can think he "proved" anything here.

[Yosarian2]

Let's see:

Rage can be used while we are in rage cooldown, and there's no way Flay would arrange things so that we could win by raging in a circle after someone dies and killing off the people who don't have rage, which is what Yos is proposing.

Scum don't have to use their rage. If scum don't ragedump, then we can't catch them in the way suggested. Also, if town start getting stupid and using their rage in random ways, scum can get away with a lot. However, I think my ragedump plan scared them, and they dumped rage before we could make them do it in a way helpful to town.

Look, there's only 2 possibilities here:

1. Scum killed Voided using rage + extra rage of some kind (possibly from lynching townies, ect). This probably would have taken the whole scumgroup if they wanted to be sure of a death; it's possible that just 2 scum did it, but that would be risky for them.

2. Scum have some kind of other daykill/damage mechanism, unrelated to rage, and this is what they used to kill Voided. In this case, it probably dosn't use the same cooldown rage/hurts/heals use.

If it's #2, then we don't know anything at all; all that damage and stuff we did at the start of the day was meningless, Kinetic's silly "Yos didn't confirm his cooldown" is totally meaningless, ect.

If it's #1, then we know that me, matt, Kinetic, and Terece are confirmed town because we used rage that scum wouldn't have if they dumped. We also should be able to figure something out from the hurts/heals at the start of the day; I'm going to go back and take a look at that next.

It's not a matter of balance or whatever. We have rage, and we assume the scum have rage as well. If the scum used rage as at least part of the voided kill yesterday, then we should be able to catch and lynch them because of it.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, so let's assume for the moment that Voided was killed at least partly with rage, and see where that gets us.

Voided must have been killed between

HUEHEUEHEUEHEUHEUEHEUEHUEHEUEHUEHEUE

Congratulations, you have earned yourself a permanent ban from my games. Go away.

and

Suddenly a vast cacophony of traded blows rings out, and half of the participants disappear briefly in a swirl of flame that springs up from the depths. The groans and screams this time threaten to shatter your eardrums (or eyestalks, depending on how you personally sense the realm), as they are fueled not by souls but by dying demons. When everything clears and the survivors gasp for breath, not one but two bodies lie melting into puddles of ichor at your feet:

Fate

and

Voidedmafia

.

Count Bifrons, Demon of Hell, has been slain.

Prince Sitri, Demon of Hell, has been slain.

---

First Damage Tally of Epoch III:

• Lady Lambdadelta
  is at her normal HP limit after Healing again.
  
• kanyeknowsbest
  ,
  MattP
  ,
  quadz08
  ,
  Tierce
  ,
  Zdenek
  ,
  Yosarian2
  ,
  Xalxe
  ,
  Kinetic
  and
  Albert B. Rampage
  are all at 1 HP above normal.

quadz and Zdenek's actions are unspent.

So, at some time beweeen 12:37 PM on the 16'th and and 2:26 AM on the 17th

Basic rules about rage:

If you rage, you can't rage again for 24 hours

After you rage, you can't hurt or heal for 24 hours

However, you can rage right after you hurt and heal


People who raged within 24 hours of Voided's death

Yosarian-confirmed
MattP-confirmed
Kinetic may or may not have
I don't know when Tierce is claiming to have raged me

People who healed, hurt, or raged within 24 hours after voided's death:

Several people hurt or tried to hurt Fate later in the evening on the 16th, but there's no way to know if that was before or after the scum raged Voided to death

Quadz, definatly

HEAL: LLD

Zdenek:

HEAL: quadz

And..that's it. Next hurt or heal I see is ABR damaged at 5:32 PM, and that's too late to be proof of innocence.

100% confirmed town, if Voided was killed with rage:

Yosarian
MattP
Quadz
Zdenek

95% confirmed town, if Voided was killed with rage (had a lot of rage the day after Voided was killed; seems unlikely if they rage-dumped on voided):
Kinetic
Tierece (still assuming that she raged me...I still haven't had a chance to read this whole blasted thread)

Possible suspects left:
Albert B. Rampage
charter Xalxe
kanyeknowsbest
Lady Lambdadelta

And I'm pretty sure LLD is town.

Vote:Kanyeknowsbest

[Yosarian2]

Ok, now that I've broken the game, I can go back and respond to some stuff:

Anytime you want to address the time issues present in Post 1447 and Post 1449, Yos. No one who would be on board with Kinetic's plan would have dodged the thread for a simple post on that line

when you were online at least twice

after your Hurt-Fate cooldown was over.

You realize it doesn't matter at all, right? If Voided was killed with rage, and scum rage follows the same cooldown rules that town rage does, then I am 100% confirmed. If Voided was killed by some other method scum have that we don't know about, then the cooldown thing means nothing and proves nothing.

I was in favor of Kinetic's plan; it was a good way to confirm people as town by confirming that they couldn't have rage-killed voided. It confirmed both Quadz and Zdenek as town. I just assumed it didn't apply to anyone who had used a hurt or raged during the time window, since they couldn't confirm anything anyway. I certainly could have logged onto the thread after about 5:35 or so and hurt someone, but it wouldn't have proved anything at all, so there wasn't any point.

[Yosarian2]

...Rage does not have cooldown. Rage adds a 24h cooldown to Hurt/Heal. This is in every Town PM and on the sample role PM, so why are you saying it has a 24h cooldown between Rage attacks?

Hmmm...interesting. I saw the line about how rage triggers a 24 hour timer, but it does say that you can rage during a cooldown. I should double-check with Flay and see if your interpretation is correct, but on reading it again, it makes sense.

Ok, I guess that moves me and Matt into the 95% confirmed catagory instead of the 100% confirmed. It doesn't change the fact, though, that there's really no way that scum could rage-kill Voided and dump 3 or 4 points of rage on someone else in the 24 hour period, assuming we're talking about the same type of rage that town has. And it doesn't change the fact that I hurt Fate at 5:32 last night, and raged him right after, so there's no way I could have hurt someone today before 12:37, which is what someone has to do for Kinetic's plan to work.

Modified list:

100% confirmed town, if Voided was killed with rage:


Quadz
Zdenek

95% confirmed town, if Voided was killed with rage
Yosarian
MattP
Kinetic
Tierece (still assuming that she raged me...I still haven't had a chance to read this whole blasted thread)

Possible suspects left:
Albert B. Rampage
charter Xalxe
kanyeknowsbest
Lady Lambdadelta

Yeah, I still think we lynch Kanye today.

[Yosarian2]

I don't know when Tierce is claiming to have raged me

Hai.

If you aren't reading the 'damned thread' yet, do so. My actions were pretty obviously timestamp'd and unfortunately I won't be around in time to prove I'm in a Hurt/Heal Rage-attack-induced cooldown between the time of my Heal-Kinetic cooldown and the Dublin-7-am-cooldown timer of my Rage attack on you.

I'm posting just as fast as I can just to keep up with what's going on now. if the game ever slows down enough for me to go back and read the 15 pages or whatever that happened last night when I wasn't here, I certainly will.

Not right now, though. Have to go walk the dogs before it gets completly dark.

[Yosarian2]

He's grasping for straws. Scum can't play by the same rules as town, otherwise this game is broken just as Yos said. The people trying to confirm themselves by the "town" rules are the ones who are scum. Ironically, his defense of LLD is making me think she's the last scum now.

THAT DOES NOT MEAN HURT HER UNTIL WE HAVE 5 fucking votes. Kanye.

Let's finish off Yos already. Kthanks.

Die Scum Die.

Kinetic, you have yet to actually make any kind of case that makes any sense at all. You talked a bit about some theory that, as far as I can tell, is based on zero evidence, saying that you think scum can "double rage" whatever the hell that means. I assume it has something to do with that weird "what if scum can rage in response to town raging" setup speculation stuff you were talking about yesterday, but that wasn't based on anything either, and that doesn't seem to fit either. You then said something about how I didn't confirm the end of my cooldown period, even though that seems to have nothing to do with anything, there's no logical scum motivation for it, and it doesn't really make sense. And then you called me "confirmed scum" and voted me.

By the way, "Scum can't win if scum play by the same rules as towns" also makes no sense to me. Town has NEVER won an angel nightless game, and tend in general to do really bad at any game with daykills or damage mechanism or anything of the sort.

[Yosarian2]

I'll claim then, since Kanye is a stupid fuck.

I'm ALSO an Ophan. I can watch once every 12 hours, and have been constantly watching Matt for the first while of the game, until I decided that the more quiet people are those I should watch. No results on Matt.

I was in the process of watching VOIDED when he died. Also no results from him.

So let me guess: Kanye saw me do something to Voided and now thinks he has a guilty.

And he's a fucktard. Again.

You wanna test this? Kanye can watch me again. I'll submit a watch on him right now.

NOPE. 100% FALSE.

ive been peeping lambda for quite some time, never once did i track her to matt and only tracked her to voided (gasp) when rages were submitted to him. die forever please <3

NEWS FLASH

EITHER LLAMDA OR KANYE IS NOW CONFIRMED TO BE SCUM.

The scum group is either :

Kanye
Albert
Xalxe

or

Albert B. Rampage
Xalxe
Lady Lambdadelta

If we can just stop being stupid for a second, I think we just won.

[Yosarian2]

YOS IS TOWN AND ANYONE WHO TARGETS HIM IS CONFIRMED SCUM TO ME BY THIS POINT LITERALLY GO KILL YOURSELVES

Yos is scum. Frankly this whole display just proves it to me. You are his scum buddy. Either LLD or Xalxe is the third. With Kanye doing that, it's probably LLD.

YOU HAVE YET TO MAKE A SINGLE COHERENT ARGUMETN FOR ME BEING SCUM. AT ALL. NOT EVEN A LITTLE. I'VE ASKED YOU LIKE 3 TIMES, AND YOU APPARENTLY CAN'T.

The closest you came was some kind of weird theory about "scum being able to double rage", but it's based on nothing, has no evidence for it, you don't seem to have any reason to think that, and it doesn't really make a lot of sense. There are a nearly endless number of possible mechancis for how scum abilities might work this game, and you seem to have just pulled one out of a hat for no apparent reason and then based your entire case on that being true.

What the hell are you doing this game, Kinetic? Kanye just claimed LLD lied about her role action. Either he is lying scum, or she is. And you're ignoring that to keep voting me, when you can't even explain why you think I'm scum?

[Yosarian2]

Hurt: Yos

Wow.

Ok, LLD just claimed scum. Nice.

Vote:LLD

hurt:LLD

Ghosts can't Hurt/Heal/Rage, sorry.

[Yosarian2]

RAGE DUMP ON LLD GOGOGOGO

Yos is already dead, scum rage dumped the FUCK out of him I'm positive

We'll see how much firepower they have left. Scum must have dumped at least 10-11 damage on voided last night.

[Yosarian2]

By the way, Kinetic, I am officially revoking your right to use the phrase "confirmed scum".

[Yosarian2]

By the way, Kinetic, I am officially revoking your right to use the phrase "confirmed scum".

I still maintain that three of the four scum are in you, Matt, LLD, and Xalxe. I just may be wrong on you it appears. ><

No, Matt is also confirmed town.

The scum are LLD, Xalxe, and Albert.

[Yosarian2]

I just wanna watch the world burn.

Actually, the rest of us are demons, you're an angel. The rest of us want to watch the world burn, you're supposed to want to sit on a cloud and play pretty harp music while watching happy bunny rabbits dance.

[Yosarian2]

Tierce could be scum, but she did rage me earlier today. If scum could do 10+ points to voided yesterday and then have enough rage left to kill me today with only Kinetic's help, then...well, that would suck. It just seems unlikely; if they had that much firepower, why didn't they start killing earlier?

I think the scum get rage like we do. Last night, when Voided died, my guess is that 3 scum dropped their normal 9 points of rage on him, + a few points of something extra (possibly bonus for lynching townies?) to make sure he was dead. Today, everyone got 1 more rage point, so the 3 scum could hit me with 3 more damage from rage. If they had any more then that on hand, LLD wouldn't have needed to hurt me to get me into potential killing range.

I think that's all they have. So I think that everyone who has been shown to use rage in the last 24 hours or so is almost certanly town.

[Yosarian2]

On a side note; if Albert is town, he should be able to dump 4 points of rage on LLD right now. If he can not do that, then he is confirmed lying scum.

[Yosarian2]

Should we wait to kill LLD for Albert to return then? And I'm sure we can get Kanye to prove Albert is the one making the rage if he's ready for it.

It doesn't really matter that much. If you kill LLD before Albert comes back, then just make Albert ragedump on, say, Xalxe first thing tomorrow. Just make him do it fast, before rage has a chance to regenerate.

[Yosarian2]

Should we wait to kill LLD for Albert to return then? And I'm sure we can get Kanye to prove Albert is the one making the rage if he's ready for it.

It doesn't really matter that much. If you kill LLD before Albert comes back, then just make Albert ragedump on, say, Xalxe first thing tomorrow. Just make him do it fast, before rage has a chance to regenerate.

Shouldn't post when you're deaaaaaaaaaaaaadddddddddddddd~~~~~

Are you sure I'm dead?

You do remember that I never claimed how many hitpoints I have, right?

[Yosarian2]

Oh, I almost forgot to mention.

At 6:26 today, right after I hurt her, I sent a PM to flay telling him to use my one rage point on LLD.

Don't know if it'll go through or not, just wanted to mention that so as to not give any numbers guys a headache later.

[Yosarian2]

Jesus Christ, I don't have any fucking clue what is happening anymore. KKB has a guilty on LLD, who has since basically claimed scum, that's easy enough. I'll hurt her tomorrow morning, after my cooldown from raging Yos has finished. Also, apparently Kinetic has second thoughts on Yos? I don't fucking get it.

as;lfgjanhpofgijhaprogijapfoj

why is my whole life obscenely complex right now

Wait. You used rage points on me?

When?

[Yosarian2]

Get off Kanye. Trust your own math, the time for retribution is past. Raging Yos, whose response to the guilty is awful and scummy and as fuck. Note how he treats himself and Matt as a unit.

...

What the hell is wrong with you? Kanye claimed results on LLD, not on me. Why would you rage me because Kanye claimed a guilty on LLD? Did you somehow miss the fact that I was confirmed innocent and that Kinetic didn't actually have a case on me at all?

Anyone, someone needs to figure out what is going on here with all this rage. Did Tierece actually rage me, or was she lying?

[Yosarian2]

Well, if quadz really did ragedump me as well, then I probably am dead after all.

Seriously, WTF is wrong with this town. What "Math" is it that you think Kinetic had, quadz? Do you even *read* a post before you sheep it into quickylnching a confirmed townie that you've had a town read on all game, or do you just follow anyone who posts a lot of words?

[Yosarian2]

Well, Quadz couldn't have been part of the Voided ragedump. He healed at 5:41 AM the next morning. No, sadly, he's probably just dumb town.

[Yosarian2]

Scum had probably accrued at LEAST 4 rage per player by the time of the VM kill

They could have killed VM with just two rage dumpers. If even one of them had 5 rage

Depends. We healed him up to base hitpoints+1, remember, so if (like the sample role PM) his base hitpoints were 10, he would have been at 11. And they wouldn't have known exactly how many hitpoints he has. They probably wouldn't have wanted to risk leaving him at like 2 hitpoints and thereby confirming him. To be safe, they probably would have wanted to hit him with at least 11 or 12 damage, and that probably means all 3 scum ragedumping at once.