Mini 1397: War is Hell (Game Over)

[MattP]

If you're town then just talk to me about reads and me in-thread masons and if you help me and post anything like you sound when we chat while we hydra I'll trust that you're town. IN FACT, you have the easiest job (at least with me) out of all the players because you know we work well together so there's literally nothing stopping you from doing that other than inactivity.

[MattP]

and be in-thread masons***

[kanyeknowsbest]

im really zero care about this game tho :x

tomorrow i swear illt ry 2 care.

[MattP]

Ok you better

[Mr. Flay]

scooby

groans and turns a funny purplish-black color for a moment, then puffs out a belch of black smoke and stands up straighter. He now looks a great deal like

Fate

.

[MattP]

Fuck. Literally Fuck My Life.

[Kinetic]

KILL IT NOW! KILL IT NOW WITH FIRE!

[kanyeknowsbest]

yo fate, youre town yah?

[MattP]

Fate, before you go apeshit in this thread, trust me, I understand that you're town, it's just that scooby's scum and nothing you can do will change my mind

[quadz08]

oh jeez

let's kill it dead please

[Tierce]

HI FATE

[Voidedmafia]

it just felt like defense for the sake of defense, not defense to prove that you were actually town or defense to really try and prove kinetic's attacks as baseless, false, and at the core scummy.

What makes you think this?

I mean, yeah, you hurled accusations at him and such, but none of really felt like you were trying to push the angles, just throwing stuff and hoping something stuck--which, unfortunately for you, nothing really did.

You did follow my roadmap, yes?

Ok. We just got rage again, which means that everyone now has 3 rage points. Scum might have more, if they get rage for killing people.

This puts us into dangerous terratory, where scum might be able to ragedump and kill someone. I would like to suggest that we should have everyone who is considered suspicious, everyone who has been voted for today (which should be me, MattP, Kinetic, and Albert; I think that's it, if I missed anyone let me know) dump their rage on Scooby as soon as we decide to kill him. We should do it one by one, and then Flay's damage count should let us keep track of that.

This does two things. If we can make one or two scum dump all their rage, then that should make it impossible for them to just ragedump and kill someone in the near future. Also, if we do this and then the scum ragedump, it should be much easier to figure out who it is by process of elimination.

Am I missing anything here, or is this a good plan?

It looks decent enough to me (not that I'm a good judge of plans).

Hell, Albert is on the list of "super townies" too. Heh.

Wait, what--oh, right, Matt's list of super townies.

Actually Scooby was very fencesitty with LLD all game, I think it was Xalxe and Tierce that were super fans of LLD

Tierce very well could've. Most I remember from Xalxe in the early game was him kinda sucking up to Tierce and raging for your death.

I'd ask you why you've changed your mind on KKB.

Preeeeetty sure he was joking there. Could be wrong.

Let me try to organize my thoughts about kanye, but regardless of how I feel about him this is already a won town game as long as we agree that Zdenek, Yos, myself, Kinetic, ABR, and VM are never touched. I'm starting to really warm up to LLD town too, lemme go over her

Having zde and ABR on this list makes me twitch. So does the possibility of LLD being on there.

This actually literally confirms Kinetic as town

Like as far as I'm concerned he's as good as an innocent child

Makes me feel better about him, yeah. Not to the point of him being conftown, though.

On the other hand, Yos is still pretty brazen to come out with a plan like that as town or as scum. I mean, if it does go through and at the very least he is put as one of the dumpers, he's effectively fucking himself over in regards to rage (yeah, he may or may not get rage back IF Scooby flips town, but I doubt that it'll be enough of a refund at this point), and moreso to his supposed scumteam if one of the poeple he initially suggested (or of those added on) are also scum. Perhaps there's a small safety net here if Scooby is town (even if the potential rage refund is small, any scum in the dump category would still have some plus any scum that didn't have to rage dump) or if a scum is someone who is the 4th dumper (and thus has a chance of not actually using up all of his/her rage), but either one seem like farfetched, lucky-guess-type safety nets.

Tl;dr: I don't feel the same as Kinetic about Yos's plan or events surrounding it. I do find Kinetic's paranoia around any potential scum utility and such to be very town.

*sees Fate come in*

....Oh, goody. Old Yeller's come back home.

[Yosarian2]

If everyone has rage: What do scum have? That has been the question that has been rolling around in my mind this entire game. I've been trying to figure that out, what mechanics could it be. Is it simply more rage? Maybe, but if that's the case, rage-dumping would be useless. Scum would just have enough rage to both cover the "town amount" and perform extra kills.

Probably. They might get more rage from killing townies, like in previous games. But it's not useless at all; if scum have their normal rage and some extra rage, and we make them dump their normal rage, then that really cuts down on the number of kills they get. If scum only get extra rage when a townie dies, then making them dump their normal rage cuts the amount of rage the scum have by at least 3/4ths right now (we all have 3 normal rage points, scum might have 1 extra from the mislynch). Even if scum have more rage then that, it's still good to force scum to dump their rage.

What if it's actually connected to the town's rage though? What if scum gain extra rage every time the town rages? What if the scum are able to redirect someone's rage use? What is the scum can use rage for something else? What if the scum have both rage and another mechanic and rage dumping means nothing but gaining townie points?

That all seems really unlikely. If scum can "redirect rage", then better we find out now then in endgame. I highly doubt scum gain rage whenever townies use rage; scum gaining that much rage that fast could mean they get like 2 extra kills randomally in endgame, which would just be stupidly overpowered. If scum have both rage and another mechanic, then them dumping their rage still slows them down and makes it harder and slower for them to kill townies.

And we have Yos who is the proponent for it, running blindly into the field, and yet he's immediately down when someone who he should realize equally over thinks these things is showing trepidation.

I know that you over think things, sure; but i also know that you're smart enough and quick-witted enough that I would expect you, as scum, to expect to be able to talk your way out of having to use rage.

And by the way, back on page 44, it didn't seem like you were opposed to the idea of rage dumping. It just seemed like you really didn't want to do it personally.

Ok. We just got rage again, which means that everyone now has 3 rage points. Scum might have more, if they get rage for killing people.

This puts us into dangerous terratory, where scum might be able to ragedump and kill someone. I would like to suggest that we should have everyone who is considered suspicious, everyone who has been voted for today (which should be me, MattP, Kinetic, and Albert; I think that's it, if I missed anyone let me know) dump their rage on Scooby as soon as we decide to kill him. We should do it one by one, and then Flay's damage count should let us keep track of that.

This does two things. If we can make one or two scum dump all their rage, then that should make it impossible for them to just ragedump and kill someone in the near future. Also, if we do this and then the scum ragedump, it should be much easier to figure out who it is by process of elimination.

Am I missing anything here, or is this a good plan?

The issue I'm having with this is sort of two-fold. First, that's a rather large segment of the town. We should pick fewer people than nearly half the town if we're going to rage dump. Second, I don't really agree that I belong on that list. While one person thinks I'm suspicious, the rest of the town doesn't. In fact, I'm both on the "list of only townies that should hurt" and the "list of suspicious townies". How does that work?

I'm ok with Albert/Matt/Yos doing that though. Its a smaller group, that would be 9 damage which should all be used up without us worrying about someone getting any refunded rage and throwing things off too.

At this point, you didn't seem opposed to the idea of rage-dump. You just didn't think that you should be on the list. That sent up some serious red flags for me.

[scooby]

HUEHEUEHEUEHEUHEUEHEUEHUEHEUEHUEHEUE

[Kinetic]

HUEHEUEHEUEHEUHEUEHEUEHUEHEUEHUEHEUE

You've been replaced. Leave the game.

[Kinetic]

And by the way, back on page 44, it didn't seem like you were opposed to the idea of rage dumping. It just seemed like you really didn't want to do it personally.

In post 1077, Kinetic wrote:
In post 1074, Yosarian2 wrote:
Ok. We just got rage again, which means that everyone now has 3 rage points. Scum might have more, if they get rage for killing people.

This puts us into dangerous terratory, where scum might be able to ragedump and kill someone. I would like to suggest that we should have everyone who is considered suspicious, everyone who has been voted for today (which should be me, MattP, Kinetic, and Albert; I think that's it, if I missed anyone let me know) dump their rage on Scooby as soon as we decide to kill him. We should do it one by one, and then Flay's damage count should let us keep track of that.

This does two things. If we can make one or two scum dump all their rage, then that should make it impossible for them to just ragedump and kill someone in the near future. Also, if we do this and then the scum ragedump, it should be much easier to figure out who it is by process of elimination.

Am I missing anything here, or is this a good plan?


The issue I'm having with this is sort of two-fold. First, that's a rather large segment of the town. We should pick fewer people than nearly half the town if we're going to rage dump. Second, I don't really agree that I belong on that list. While one person thinks I'm suspicious, the rest of the town doesn't. In fact, I'm both on the "list of only townies that should hurt" and the "list of suspicious townies". How does that work?

I'm ok with Albert/Matt/Yos doing that though. Its a smaller group, that would be 9 damage which should all be used up without us worrying about someone getting any refunded rage and throwing things off too.


At this point, you didn't seem opposed to the idea of rage-dump. You just didn't think that you should be on the list. That sent up some serious red flags for me.

I have no issue with dumping if that is what is needed. I have issue with you putting me on the "scummy" list when everyone has basically said I'm town. I don't generally like to refer to what others think and let my play and other players say those things for themselves, but when the only person who credibly thought I was scum was Zd and even he thinks I'm town now... I think certain, small groups of scummy players dumping is probably a good idea, but I don't think we should be doing it with large groups of 4-5. It spreads it out too far and if there is an issue with it, like one of the ones I brought up, than there is more places to hide.

And I don't think scum gaining rage (maybe not 1-1, but maybe 2 or 3 to 1) when a townie uses rage would be overpowered. The entire town having rage is a VERY powerful mechanic. Scum are going to need something to counter balance that. Whether it is a way to avoid rage, redirect rage, or benefit from town misuse of rage, I don't know. But I am willing to bet it is something along those lines, because they make the most sense. There has to be some sort of swing back is what I'm thinking, but like hell if I know what it is.

If we're choosing 3, I like Xalxe, Zd, and Yos to throw honestly. Something about using rage at all though is not feeling right to me. I think we should at the very least take using rage slowly, maybe a test first to see what happens. If that's the case, I or someone else can test first, see what happens, and then go from there.

[Mr. Flay]

HUEHEUEHEUEHEUHEUEHEUEHUEHEUEHUEHEUE

Congratulations, you have earned yourself a permanent ban from my games. Go away.

[Yosarian2]

I have no issue with dumping if that is what is needed. I have issue with you putting me on the "scummy" list when everyone has basically said I'm town. I don't generally like to refer to what others think and let my play and other players say those things for themselves, but when the only person who credibly thought I was scum was Zd and even he thinks I'm town now... I think certain, small groups of scummy players dumping is probably a good idea, but I don't think we should be doing it with large groups of 4-5. It spreads it out too far and if there is an issue with it, like one of the ones I brought up, than there is more places to hide.

I just made a list of everyone who got voted today, as a simple shortcut for who the scummier people are.

Honestly, I don't care all that much about who does it today. If we have 3-4 people ragedump today, and a different 3-4 people ragedump tomorrow, it should make it much harder to scum to kill with rage, and if they do it should make it easy to figure out who they are. It's really in our best interests to stop people from building up rage. If there was no rage in the game at all, and we follow The Plan and stick with voting, then this becomes a simple no-kill day-only game, and town tends do really well at those.

And I don't think scum gaining rage (maybe not 1-1, but maybe 2 or 3 to 1) when a townie uses rage would be overpowered. The entire town having rage is a VERY powerful mechanic.

Why? Once we decide to lynch, town can kill people almost as quickly with or without rage. The town having rage speeds lynches up slightly, but that's probably not a big deal, except possibly in some really dodgy hypothetical endgame scenarios. For the most part, I don't think "the whole town has rage" helps us much at all here.

If we're choosing 3, I like Xalxe, Zd, and Yos to throw honestly. Something about using rage at all though is not feeling right to me. I think we should at the very least take using rage slowly, maybe a test first to see what happens. If that's the case, I or someone else can test first, see what happens, and then go from there.

Well, I'm not suggesting we all go at once. I want to see one person dump their rage, and then wait for Flay's next vote-count (hitpoint count I guess) so we can confirm that it was used and exactly how much is used.

[Yosarian2]

Fate: Welcome to the game. I know it sucks to replace in to such a shitty position, but we're pretty sure the guy you're replacing is scum, and are already figuring out the logistics on how to kill him.

Some quick things you should know:

1. We have all agreed; no one is going to hurt anyone unless that person has 5 people voting to lynch them. This is the plan we are going with. If you break the plan and start lashing out, no matter who or what reasons you give, you WILL be dead within 48 hours, no matter what else you do or say. If you don't believe me, take a look at how day 1 ended. I want to hear your defense, I want to hear your thoughts on the game so far, and I want to hear your suspects, but if you start actually shooting at people we put you down like a rabid dog before you'll even know what hit you.

2. You currently have 5 votes on you, and the guy you're replacing (Scooby) looks really, really bad. If you want to claim, I would do it fast.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Sorry about being absent, was flying home for Christmas.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Alright, so just from a quick peruse of the recent events, I'd like to have a vote count and a hurt count posted so I can see where Scooby/Fate is.

Mod?

I absolutely REFUSE to let Fate be killed before he gets a chance to post. My gut read on Scooby was already leaning town (it's been a while since I've looked at this seriously due to exams and travelling, but I remember this fairly well), and Fate is just too strong and polarizing of a player to just kill without letting him affect the game. I guarantee he will help me get not just a better read on his slot, but a better read on other people too.

So yeah, making my stance now that any further hurts on Fate will be met by a heal from me and an immediate FoS. Speaking of:

FoS: Kinetic and Quadz

[Lady Lambdadelta]

After that response I'm ok with just killing him.

Yup.

HURT: Scooby

Also, I've had a pretty longstanding townread on Tierce. No one post in particular I can think of right now, just consistent towniness. Kinetic would also be in that list for me, since I've just realized that I apparently derped and left him out.

And again. Both of them seem in a real big hurry to kill Scooby before a replacement comes in.

Worried that the replacement might inspire more confidence and be competent enough to save the slot maybe?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like seriously, this has gone beyond being a "response to Fate". It can't be attributed as that because of these two posts before the replacement is announced.

I want some answers from both of you about this matter.

MattP, I need an answer from you about something. Explain your thought process concerning the "Kanye backing out of his town read" comment. It's very important to my reads currently.

[Voidedmafia]

Though, notably, kinetic only remarked that he was much more willing to let him die while quadz was rather trigger-happy with his hurt?

Perhaps the impatience is true for both of them, but there's a certain level of degrees that I think you're missing, LLD.

P-EDIT: Read, missy. Read.

[Fate]

SO I HEARD THAT IM PRIME MISLYNCH BAIT

SHAME THATS NOT GOING TO FUCKING HAPPEN