Mini 1397: War is Hell (Game Over)

[MattP]

Uh oh I have a scumread guys

But I don't know what to do about it

It's Quadz

*SHRUG*

[MattP]

Quadz you have to die immediately please

You're doing that panicky derp thing you do as scum

[MattP]

*waves at Matt* read a recent game of mine in which I am not scum. This isn't a scumtell for me.

I don't believe in meta anymore, that's a dark past

I also don't fully understand if hurting someone is connected to rage, and if not what is rage? I DO understand the healing mechanic though

Kanye, also we are in-thread masons this round

[MattP]

Oh shit, my two minute investigation of your meta proves that you are one impressive fucker

Well done

[MattP]

I disagree, but by this point the reason I disagree is pointless because you guys have exposed the reasoning.

If a "secret rage" happens we can force our biggest scumreads to heal the player and basically drag out the rager since the rager would not be able to heal. If scum are going to rage it's going to be the more suspected scum because they're more likely to go soon and therefore it's more useful to use up their rage. So if we forced our four or five biggest scumreads to heal we would have definitely found a scum and it would have been a nifty one-time trick.

[MattP]

Because scum aren't moronic, especially considering the player list, and now that we've exposed the idea noone will do it? It would have been more effective to just let it happen and approach it then, so that scum weren't cognizant of the harms of covertly putting the nail in the coffin for a mislynch. It would have been like a human mousetrap.

[MattP]

I think you're wrong and Kanye will agree with me and that's all that I care about so. The plan would work as long as one person with a brain brought it up and argued it well at the proper time.

[MattP]

C'est la vie

This was a good conversation I felt good about this

[MattP]

I'm actually eagerly waiting for someone to return to the thread so until then I will just SHUT UP because I just realized I'm an idiot

pedit: I actually have a LOT of good townreads right now and if I pushed anyone it would be really rough and counterproductive, so I'm just going to wait until the lil sheep I'm spying comes back to graze in the fiery pits of hell.

[MattP]

Ok, how about this for a DEMOCRATIC way of killing players:

We all respect a pseudo-vote system, similar to a regular game. Once a player reaches majority, we agree that we will kill that player. If anyone uses healing or hurting to go against this system they are playing anti-town

This is my last mechanic-related post

[MattP]

Removed doublepost.

[MattP]

P-Edit: So... that thing that was suggested on the very first page that everyone who isn't LLD agrees with?

OH

YEAH THAT

[MattP]

I would be fine with a massclaim

Why SPECIFICALLY is this so?

HEAL: KKB

[MattP]

Dammit, Matt.

I am literally the worst. This won't happen again.
I am trying to keep up with your misposting... -Flay

The question to charter still requires answering.

[MattP]

I'm always in favor of massclaim.

Can I have 3 links to you stating you were ok with a massclaim D1?

[MattP]

Feel free to look through my completed games.

I did, there are no games where you promoted a massclaim completely unsolicited because you "are always pro massclaims"

Back in 2010 you stated that you don't understand why massclaims are necessary

Recently you have been a supporter of massclaims in several games, but all for some reasoning

So, why in this game are you pro massclaim?

[MattP]

Because in most games if you suggest massclaim the gaggle of idiots will gang up and lynch you for no reason?

So what do you generally gain from a massclaim and why is the payoff of it greater than the fact that scum are informed and know who to kill? Why have you never in the past made a case for this theory?

[MattP]

You realize the disjunct here is that the players proposing a massclaim are doing it for some covert reasoning regarding mechanics while you are doing it because you like massclaims, so I'm curious as to why ty

[MattP]

Still waiting on charter

[MattP]

Ooooh no Tierce, read on Zdenek now

[MattP]

Fuck this charter waiting crap, gonna give me a fucking aneurysm. Consider me on "Waiting for charter to get back so that I can buttfuck him then" mode

[MattP]

All right

[MattP]

Why aren't you voting?

Why does my vote matter right now when I'm obviously doing something?

[MattP]

Ohhh shit Tierce you know me so well!

[MattP]

I have a target. I am not going to compromise my target. While my target was here I was aggressively questioning him. He is taking a 4 day break from the thread, but I am not going to suddenly become uninterested in him because of that. But don't worry lil babe, after him you're next on my list

[MattP]

VOTE: Tierce

Wah wah wah Matt's pussy footing

Good job having a tantrum and outing yourself, ask me how much of a fuck I give about your intelligible tissy fit, scum

[MattP]

I've dealt with my mother's conf bias about me being a malicious ass hole all day since I've been stuck home for the holidays. Ask me how much of a shit I give about your borderline-less-intelligent conf bias'ing

[MattP]

Hey Tierce, here is my question for you:

Why did you completely ignore the Zdenek wagon, not get involved whatsoever, have no semblance of a read on him even though he probably has the most writing so far in the game which is coated with emotion and more opinionated than anything else in-thread, and then make one snarky remark ONLY WHEN his wagon started growing about how he's "tunneling again dear Heaven" because that was soooo helpful and y'know not like at all influencing of the continued growth of the wagon without having to place a vote yourself and have a stake in the lynch?

[MattP]

Just for the record, Zdenek is town

Oh look I have a read on him

[MattP]

Hey Zdenek, read on Tierce, go

[MattP]

1) I am not bringing RL issues into the game so don't apologize

2) You CAN conf bias as scum in that anything I say will suddenly be scummy

3) Your behavior towards Zdenek was scummy and IDGAF how Zdenek feels about it

[MattP]

I'm obviously in a bad mood, so I will try to be rational for a second and then just come back later

I feel that your behavior regarding Zdenek is scummy, even if it is only two votes because it was two successive votes and you were the next poster. I think that you not having a read in any form is safe and weird, and your commenting looks convenient given the time you gave it. That is all.

[MattP]

And ok, from an outside perspective looking at my last few posts I do think I've been very sloppy. I'm going to ask that they are disregarded because I've been in an argument all day with my family and have been trying to find an alternative of where to stay until I can return to college, so everything I've been posting today has been fueled by that conflict. I'm sorry for lashing out and it was completely unprecedented, specifically where I said you were having a tantrum and were posting less-than-intelligent because obviously I've been doing that

[MattP]

You seriously don't think if I'm so cognizant of my playstyle that I wouldn't mock it as scum, at least to SOME degree, especially if I made it public knowledge?

[MattP]

But you're wrong, I did choose an early target and I had full intent to tunnel them and I strongly think they're scum. They stopped posting, and after two days I finally called them out passively on it. Then they claimed it would be another two days so I did move to you for your post on Zdenek. I pointed this out prior to you calling me out.

[MattP]

Nothing interesting happened on page 8.

And you knew that in less than 2 minutes?

[MattP]

There was also a half of page 9 to read

And a lot of the posts were big ones

Unless you're the fastest skimmer in the world

[MattP]

Hey, big favor, can I please stay around long enough to get my conversation with Charter, and with Yos too in a perfect world, before I'm lynched? Regardless if I had a shitty early game, I generally am ok at scumhunting and I would like the chance to do so so that I didn't completely fial at this game

[MattP]

Unvote

[MattP]

I am not saying don't lynch me right now, I am saying don't lynch me until I actually get to do something, that in no way is AtE to get you to stop wanting to lynch me. In fact, I IMPLORE you to not let it affect your read on me, and rather look at the statement from a completely objective perspective of whether or not you are willing to grant me time to attempt to actually do something otherwise I feel that I was a completely wasted, and overall anti-town slot for my outburst. Therefore, I would like some time to try to do something that can be examined after I am lynched. Ok?

[MattP]

Seriously?

[MattP]

I'm obviously in a very shitty position, and I am trying to do SOMETHING to try to in some way rectify the situation. What exactly do you think I should be doing right now as town? Whether or not you have a scumread on me, actually consider for a second from a TOWN PoV at this point what I should do

1) I DID do something that is inevitably at some point in this game going to get me lynched, I've practically completely fucked my chance to get to endgame, and therefore I am a completely anti-town player so I am asking to try to do something not anti-town before I die. Regardless of whether you do or do not consider that AtE it's not baseless, it is actually backed up by a fact that I have failed my duty as a town member and would like to, in some semblance, redeem myself

2) I have been waiting this entire time, rather patiently, to talk to charter and have been constantly denied of that privilege. In fact, charter continues and continues to prolong the amount of time he needs to get back to the game, and it seems like I'm never going to have a chance to talk to him because of this, which you have to understand that from a TOWN perspective that would be incredibly frustrating

3) I regret my vote on Tierce and I am at a point where just pretending I still think she's scum would be less detrimental than removing my vote, but I also believe that as a town member I do have the responsibility to be truthful in my reads (which does match my meta and game theory) and therefore I unvoted. This does make sense from me as town

I am asking for one favor. IDGAF if you lynch me after I get to do this thing I've been waiting for for a week. This is not AtE. I think I deserve the right to do this and if I get lynched prior to having that ability I will be upset.

[MattP]

This is a stupid-ass argument from me but I'll say it anyway, I did not edit or spend time on the above post obviously as I wrote it in 6 minutes. It therefore must have been genuine to some degree or I'm very good at bullshitting very quickly. I do feel this way, and because there is a genuine tone I wish you would at least for a moment entertain the idea of me as town just fucking up really bad and therefore give me the chance to talk to charter, because obviously in the past good has come from me talking to people in games and it makes NO sense to deny me of that

[MattP]

Tierce, if you like meta so much look at SoL Invitational where I was lynched and see my tone prior to my impending lynch and tell me it's not different from now (I haven't looked at SoL for months but I emotionally feel very similar to how I felt then)

[MattP]

You can call it OMGUS, I would call it a completely unnecessary and unfounded outburst

[MattP]

How have I disappeared? I posted within the last hour. I actually, and maybe it will come as a SURPRISE to you, don't enjoy playing with you whatsoever in games so try to simmer down your abrasiveness just a little bit as a favor to me

[MattP]

last 5 hours*

[MattP]

One main thing has even happened since I've posted, which is Tierce pushing Kinetic on something I don't yet know about, which hasn't even resolved yet. What do you think was worth me responding to in the last 5 hours or are you just dense?

[MattP]

Where am I pushing on Kinetic?

Skim moar.

PV I JUST SAID THE WRONG NAME

[MattP]

As for PV

pedit: I actually have a LOT of good townreads right now and if I pushed anyone it would be really rough and counterproductive,

so I'm just going to wait until the lil sheep I'm spying comes back to graze in the fiery pits of hell.

This was in reference to PV's first post, which gave me a scumvibe mainly before of the fluffy non-productive way of it.

I see your point. However, If this is a normal sized mafia game, there are 3 scum. If 2 town and 3 scum decides someone dies, you can guarantee it'll be town that dies. This doesn't have to happen more than a few times to screw town over.

I think that we should stay with 7 for the first lynch. If this doesn't appear to work, we can modify for next lynch.

The killers should be the ones voting.

Votes will be tracked.
Votes without reasons should be subject to the most scrutiny.

This also seems very postured and too dumbed down / stiff, specifically the bolded parts. I don't see a SLIP like you supposedly see

I don't like when he calls me scum out of the blue, but I don't like it any less than LLD's comment, which I'm very curious to genuinely see her response to my post to her.

[MattP]

I don't think I have time for a game moving this fast, I asked the mod to replace me. Very sorry.

Well.

[MattP]

I'll give all of my reads when I get out of lab

[MattP]

First off, you've posted null pertaining to the points being brought against you by myself and Yos to my satisfaction.

Oh Ok tell me exactly what you said that wasn't a parroting of what Tierce said. You are pulling shit out of your ass so I'd like you to outline every point you made that wasn't "Matt had an outburst at Tierce and shittily called her scum while he was in a bad mood"

Go ahead

[MattP]

You are intentionally taking any chance to pile on extra shit on me because you want me dead for the sake of it and after I die you'll be like, "whatever Matt looked scummy" either because you're an irritable, abrasive individual or you're scum.

[MattP]

Posts 158 through 161 are tantamount to a scum claim for Matt.

Also, I see no reason to give Matt any BoP Tierce. You've shown an argument about his self proclaimed town meta, and he isn't sticking to it.

Further, you can't get fake rage past the Queen of Rage. That whole comment about your mother was loaded with tons of goodies that scum love to use. Baiting into a spiraling conversation, combined with some absurd form of AtE seeking to gain you some form of sympathy in the manner of "oh he was just in a bad mood, he was being bad town".

All of it stinks.
------------------------------

On a separate but related note, are we just going to let the voting plan go through? Because while I don't want to drag this out I'm annoyed/worried people like Tierce and Yos won't address my concerns about a pseudo voting system.

Post 158 and 161 were even further expanded upon in my case to let me stay alive long enough to push Charter

The second line is nothing

Telling me my personal situation is AtE is seriously something you can absolutely go FUCK YOURSELF with. I don't give a flying fuck what you think, I was having a terrible situation at home that I would not lie about and you can go fuck yourself to belittle me and call it an "absurd form of AtE seeking sympathy". I don't give a fuck if you disregard it but to fucking tell me my life situation is absurd AtE is disgusting. I do not use my personal situation to sickly gain sympathy to win a fucking game of mafia. I've fucking talked about my situation in F62 about how I had to move out of my home over the summer and was cut off from my family and though I don't expect you to have read it nor should I you should have the respect or decency to not refer to my situation that way. No, I do not enjoy you as a person. I think you are an angry, bitter person and I think it's ridiculous that you think that's ok and you cartoonize yourself by calling yourself the "Queen of Rage". I think you are being a lying ass right now.

Tell me what exactly I ignored from your "case" on me.

You are throwing my logs on the fire to fuel the wagon on me. You said I "mysteriously disappeared since being pushed" WHEN I DID NOT DISAPPEAR AND DISAPPEARING IS NOT EQUIVALENT TO IGNORING A CASE ON ONESELF, AND I DIDNT EVEN IGNORE THE CASE ON MYSELF. YOU ARE CAUGHT IN A LIE. YOU ARE SCUM. OK GOOD AND FINE YOU CAN ENJOY MY LYNCH BUT YOU'RE NEXT

[MattP]

YOU GUYS THINK MY PUSH ON TIERCE WAS A SCUMSLIP? LLD JUST OUTRIGHT LIED, I DIDNT EVEN DO THAT

SHE CLAIMED I DISAPPEARED WHEN I DIDNT

I CALLED HER OUT AND INSTEAD OF SAYING IT WAS A MISTAKE SHE DEFENDED HERSELF BY SAYING BY "DISAPPEARED" SHE MEANT "IGNORED HER CASE ON ME" WHICH ARE INCREDIBLY DIFFERENT

HER CASE ON ME WAS NOTHING THAT I COULD EVEN RESPOND TO OR WASNT RESPONDED TO ALREADY

[MattP]

Albert B. Rampage
charter/Xalxe
kdowns
Lady Lambdadelta
PeregrineV
scooby
Yosarian2

All of the scum are in these 7. Kanye, Quadz, Tierce, Kinetic and Zdenek are town. If you don't mislynch them we win.

[MattP]

I've been following.

Tierce, explain like I'm five: why should I not be proceeding to beating the snot out of Matt?

YOU GUYS THINK MY PUSH ON TIERCE WAS A SCUMSLIP? LLD JUST OUTRIGHT LIED, I DIDNT EVEN DO THAT

SHE CLAIMED I DISAPPEARED WHEN I DIDNT

I CALLED HER OUT AND INSTEAD OF SAYING IT WAS A MISTAKE SHE DEFENDED HERSELF BY SAYING BY "DISAPPEARED" SHE MEANT "IGNORED HER CASE ON ME" WHICH ARE INCREDIBLY DIFFERENT

HER CASE ON ME WAS NOTHING THAT I COULD EVEN RESPOND TO OR WASNT RESPONDED TO ALREADY

WHEN I USE CAPS LAWK IT MEANS I'M RIGHT

LOUDER IS BETTER

(pretty pretty please may I hurts it now?)

If anyone doesn't want this dead they're moronic. Add that to charter's baseless "I'm all for a massclaim" statement that he bailed out after making

Tierce, I'm not asking for sympathy! I'm asking for that "AtE" to not be considered manipulative, because I would NEVER use my situation like that. I don't care if you go "that was a towntell" or not, I'm asking you to trust that I'm the kind of person that would not do that and therefore it should be disregarded, as in just counted as a bad emotional moment for me that may have fueled my anger as town OR scum, it doesn't matter, I'm not using my personal situation as an alignment tell in any way, when I said it it was not a manipulative, I sincerely promise. I am literally offended by anyone that would think I would do that to get an advantage as scum. I consider that a vile, vile thing to do for gain in a

game

of mafia. My personal situation is not a

game

. I do not treat it as one, anywhere, in any situation.

[MattP]

Boooooring.

But thanks for the heal reminder, didn't realize charter hadn't done so.

HEAL: kdowns
VOTE: MattP

I don't know why this gem didn't quote

[MattP]

Hey, Tierce, you like meta, look at this:

Town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... lect=12878

VERSUS this

Scum:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... lect=12878

Tell me you don't get a different feel from the two. Yeah, he's flippant in both but in the town one he is a shitton less flippant and it's more like he's flippant but grounded in the thread, in the latter he just makes arbitrary statements from the sidelines about who's scum and who's town and essentially plays like an unproductive maniac. Look at post 62 of the scumgame. It's like sort of unbridled, useless arrogance that isn't any semblance of scumhunting that matches his play here.

Also, a little bit of an interesting this I noticed, Tierce. In every game you're in with Xalxe he metaphorically shoves his head in your ass at D1 start (or whenever he replaces in).

Except he knows it's his meta obviously, he does it all the fucking time. So I looked through his games with you and I found an interesting comparison. Look at Newbie 1289 where he is town:

Fuck dammit TIERCE is your IC?

Tierce is town as always until I say otherwise, though I have a question for you.
...
2) Tierce, well I'm realizing I misread your posts but I'll ask the question. Can you explain your shift from Post 243 to Post 325?

Tierce - Tierce is always town, except when she isn't. We have a history. I don't flatter myself that I can read her perfectly, but she's by no means today's lynch.

If you were expecting :motherfucking walls: like you're fond of, be aware that Tierce and I are from the same school of thought. 'Cept she's better at it.

And this game he is scum and you are on the opposing scumteam and he's not aware you're scum (paranoia mafia):

what was that post

dana, go back and read your role PM. Then tell me what the reward is.

I'll let Tierce handle the other part where you're wrong.

I will reread when my mind is not LOLFOGGY but I want it on record that I'm not comfortable with ever lynching Tierce D1. Later we can talk, but I'm not voting her today.

Do you notice a different FEEL in his behavior towards you in both games? One he's treating you like he respects you (towngame) and yeah he says he goes in like "Tierce is town" but it's not anything like the scumgame where he went in and just acted like BAM you were town prior to any discussion didn't even matter he just was like "Tierce take control I trust ya" (scumgame). That kind of reminds me of this game:

Tierce, explain like I'm five: why should I not be proceeding to beating the snot out of Matt?

This was his first post. It didn't even add anything to the discussion, he didn't vote, he just immediately appealed to you and buddied up on you HARD. There was no dialogue, no "we're equal" like in the town game, he just glorified you, stood back in the shadows and let you be responsible for my lynch.

[MattP]

And before my meta is used against me AGAIN, no I don't like cases but this is a HUGE uphill battle for me right now and if I want anyone to listen to me about my scumreads I need to try damn fucking hard because obviously the luxury I generally have in games where people follow my every whim is not going to be present here

[MattP]

And before my meta is used against me AGAIN

So hold on.

You'll use meta against me.

But when it comes to you, it's off the table?

I'm not talking to you right now I'll tell you when it's your turn to speak

[MattP]

Err, no, wait, hold on, I'll instead fight the case like you're trying to do, because by doing that, both of us will be town, right?

What kind of stupid shit is this?

That's directed at Tierce, you shouldn't respond to it

[MattP]

Hey good news guys if I'm scum I always buddy my partner and if I'm town you know I have a good track record for accuracy so in either case Xalxe is scum!

[MattP]

not buddy, bus**** Woops another scumslip!

[MattP]

What have I dodged, I'll answer it all right now

I'll go find it all. Don't ignore my points on Xalxe please

[MattP]

I only "dodged" your case on me about PV because I didn't continue my case on PV, I got involved with my case on Charter, then I was called out by you. I went back and evaluated his posts, which I wasn't focusing on PAST HIS FIRST POST until you told me to. I said I was waiting for him to return to the thread and I ended up not doing that so I FELL THROUGH ON A PLAN but I revealed that myself to you because I was being honest! I didn't have to say that, noone was even bringing up that sheep post on me, if I was scum I could have buried it but I brought it up so that you know my thought process. That's my response, now respond to the Xalxe point. You have conf bias so for like 10 minutes try to IMAGINE me being town and cater to my case

[MattP]

hey matt can you explain your town read on me pls?

also i havent had a chance to actually read a lot of the shit i missed yet but is the main argument against matt still his contradictory meta and heavy use of ate when attacked? cus the latter at least he does p much as both town and scum.

*ongoing*

All of the scum are in these 7. Kanye, Quadz, Tierce, Kinetic and Zdenek are town. If you don't mislynch them we win.

Can you explain why you think Zdenek is town? Is it just that he keeps defending you?

Just for the record, Zdenek is town

Oh look I have a read on him

This was before Zdenek had referred to me whatsoever. Is it really necessary to literally try to skew everything I say into scum intent without even attempting to fairly read me?

[MattP]

This was before Zdenek had referred to me whatsoever. Is it really necessary to literally try to skew everything I say into scum intent without even attempting to fairly read me?

That didn't answer the question. You answered the latter part (is it just because he's defending you). You did not answer the former (can you explain your town read).

Why do you care about my justification for my townread on Yos?

[MattP]

I am trying to get a read on you, Matt. That's why I'm asking you questions about your reads.

So can you explain why you think Zdenek is town?

Hold on Xalxe is about to tell me something

Amtiprod lO O

Stop

[MattP]

Because you're dodging a question. Again. Now answer it.

No, answer my question. I'm not dodging shit. You weren't interested in my read until Yos brought it up. So explain why now.

[MattP]

You seriously think you can hide behind the scumread people have on me? If you're town or scum and I flip town you're fucked so recognize that you currently are not in a position to ignore my question

[MattP]

Okay, fine. I actually don't give a shit about your read on zdnek. I do care about you dodging a question, again. Now answer Yosarian's question.

Why are you so interested in my dodging questions?

And I don't care how you deal with your situation, laugh it off and disregard the fact that you're gone after me, I'm threatening you, you have NO chance of making it anywhere near endgame and I take GREAT enjoyment in telling you that

[MattP]

Why do you continue to do it?

Except I'm trying to DO something by asking you these questions, which you are unwilling to comply to and you are being obstinate for the sake of it while I'm currently not answering Yos's question because I am focused on something about you regarding the question. You said that you don't give a shit about my answer to the question, you just don't want me dodging it. I am asking you something about it. So answer it.

[MattP]

Caught up, but will post tonight.

Well this was a lie

[MattP]

Dear MattP,

Any time your targets aren't pathetically easy, feel free to let me know. I won't bother replying to your posts until then.

Love, hellfire and brimstone,
-- Tierce

You are actually hilarious, so I'm completely ignoring you for the rest of this game.

[MattP]

Hey Tierce, question, when I flip town will you at least consider my case on Xalxe or continue to ignore it?

[MattP]

Actually, promise me you will seriously consider my case. And I want Xalxe to die next. And then LLD and then PV. I know you won't agree on LLD but I want those three dead before final 7 no fucking question

[MattP]

I swear to God that if I watch from the Dead QT any of those three end up as scum winning it I will be livid and I don't give one single ounce of a shit if you take this as "AtE" and try to rip is apart like every single thing I've done this round. You've played a terrible game so far Tierce, you had complete legitimate reasons for half of your case but you allowed yourself to become completely overwhelmed with conf bias and antagonized every single thing I did this game. Even as scum I would not have done as many "negative intent" things as you've called me out for. It;'s absolutely preposterous that you would call out every single point I make as either AtE, a bad attack on a player, etc. At least recognize that calling my push on Xalxe opportunistic was a dick thing to do when I flip because as town there is no such thing as opportunism. Realize you were wrong and completely swelled up with conf bias. I'm disappointed in your play, you played a much better game in Catch 22 and I hope this is the last time I ever see you do this. Enjoy your mislynch. And no, I don't give a shit once again if you take this as AtE, you can come back to this post and reevaluate it when I flip.

[MattP]

Summary of the story Tierce, regardless of my play you've played a terrible game so enjoy that though your ego will probably get in the way of it and you completely allowed scum to trod all over this mislynch with your play and haven't in any way been using it to scumhunt anyone but me. Any statements any players have made towards me you haven't evaluated in the slightest, and a shitton of it could be considered incredibly scummy and opportunistic. Just try to redeem yourself after this and actually look back at the posts instead of moving on with your grand chariot of bad play

[MattP]

I'm not appealing to you, none of this is manipulative, I'm telling you you're playing poorly and to shape up your play when I am gone but I don't actually expect you to take anything I say seriously and instead turn everything around. So keep doing it and making yourself feel like fucking sherlock just don't be a dick about it when I flip is all

[MattP]

I have literally never been in a situation where I haven't even been given a CHANCE, regardless of my play. Where the attacker hasn't even tried to talk to me in any form and open dialogue but instead has shot every single thing I've said down and has treated me like mod confirmed scum. It is a terrible strategy, it is discouraging for me, it makes me not want to try to even help because I feel like an absolute villain. Even if I'm scum Tierce you can still talk to me and consider the things I'm saying because either way it WILL BE OF HELP and the way you're posting towards me is completely anti-town

[MattP]

Tierce, that's fine. I am fine with that. I am simply going to say two things, and I will quote them right before I flip again so you can see them:

1) Consider my cases on LLD and Xalxe please, more so on Xalxe
2) In the future when you have a scumread on them it's still anti-town to treat them the way you treated me. I asked you to consider my case on xalxe and you never even responded to anything about it. Even if you thought it was grasping at straws you could have told me why but you ignored it because you had me as confscum. I didn't like that. Please just in the future don't do that to a scumread. I used to do that to scumreads too (see Mehdi in Name of the Wind) but I've found it's just anti-town

Ok, I'm done.

[MattP]

I'm not angry Quadz, I'm frustrated. I am explaining why I'm frustrated and trying to be productive about it to help the game progress better after I die. I think this is good. Maybe noone agrees but I see good in it so I'm going to do it. I just don't want my death to be a waste and I was afraid about that.

[MattP]

Anyway, my general advice after I die is that there has to be some sort of cohesiveness. There is too much waste of space with spec argument. Just choose a plan and stick to it and have everyone try to work together. I think that Quadz, Kanye, Tierce, Kinetic and Zdenek can be trusted. I would like it if they can work together and try to bounce ideas off of each other. I think LLD is a negative asset to the game regardless of alignment. I have Xalxe as an INCREDIBLY strong scumread. I think he is being incredibly opportunistic and is piggybacking on other people's cases on me and has generated nothing original. Yos was frustrating me but I think I just need to take a step back because I'm definitely finding people that are pushing me scummier in general at this point (your post made me very paranoid Quadz about my case on Xalxe and I almost removed you from my townlist but I just need to take a step back)

[MattP]

Waddya know kinetic townread gone

[MattP]

I'll admit, I'm not 100% sold on the Matt case

Please say this same thing again for me Kinetic but like really dumb it down for me, as in explain EXACTLY what you mean to me

There don't appear to be any other major lurkers. Everyone else has more than 10 posts... Well that was unfruitful.

At best I'd say there is 1-2 scum in the lurkers here, but there could be none.

Oy, ok, time for me to maybe re-read and see if I can pick up something on the backside.

This isn't even intuitively bad to me, this is concretely terrible

[MattP]

@Yos: Getting to you now, and I know my comment to Tierce was not a good thing objectively, but she is antagonizing me regardless of how productive I try to be / how much I try to communicate with her so eventually you just throw your hands up in the air. When she starts treating me like I'm not mod confirmed scum I'll talk to her.

[MattP]

You're not sold on the case on me being scum, right?

[MattP]

You're not sold on the case on me being scum, right?

Correct.

All right, then your grammar doesn't make sense but whatever

[MattP]

- The attack on him for disappearing was unwarranted.

- The attack on him for skimming when he said Kinetic rather than PV is poor because people get names wrong all the time.

- I disagree with the "setup to vote LLD" as being scummy. LLD's attack was reaching and him wanting her to explain herself makes sense.

- The logic of his attacks makes sense to me.

Here's what I agree with:

- I regard the points relating to him not playing to his post in Mafia Discussion as fairly weak. That argument seems to be something more along the line of a he's not playing what he believes is an optimal strategy argument as opposed to a he's scum argument. It's not an unreasonable point; I just don't think that it's good case for him being scum.

- the OMGUS happened, but I believe this is a bad scum-tell.

- the AtE, this has come up a lot, and it's the thing that I would actually be surprised if he did it as scum, but that's wifom so I like I said, if you want to lynch him for it, I don't care.

God damn it. This is a really good post.

Grumble

unvote

.

I'll admit, I'm not 100% sold on the Matt case,

but

I'm having trouble with his targets as well. Xalve I can see. I would even put PV above Xalve, but I'm not seeing LLD and I'm not sure why he's 100% on Zd as well (although, granted, I've moved Zd to scummy neutral on my list away from solid scum). If anything, that is selling me more on the MattP case then on Tierce's attacks. I agree on his quadz town read though, and although I'm not 100% on his play, I do agree on Tierce though so he's not completely out of it.

Bolded should be "and" then because it makes no sense, it's like saying "I dislike you but I don't enjoy your company"

I don't understand why you thought Zdenek's points were good and it looks not like weird flipflopping because of this new post. I don't understand how you thought Zdenek's points were good (and I would like you to explain how they were good) and then fencesat here and then through out crappy weird opportunistic reads on three lurkers and said without knowing anything about them that there are 1-2 scum there. It's very sloppy

[MattP]

and it looks a lot like weird flipflopping*

[MattP]

threw out*

Wow I suck

[MattP]

I'm not avoiding the thread, this is just a very inopportune week due to traveling and the week before school ends

[MattP]

I am going to make a statement right now that I have the most important midterm of this semester on Friday and therefore I am INCREDIBLY limited access until then. Thank you for your understanding.

[MattP]

Can we PLEASE LYNCH ONE OF THE SCUMLURKERSBAGS YOSA OR MATTP?

I very explicitly said, in bold, that I have the most important exam of the semester tomorrow. Thank you.

[MattP]

Thanks guys for being patient. My exam is over and tomorrow is all day mafia catchup.

[MattP]

All right, so I've caught up. I have a few short things to say and then I'll get into specifics:

1) Kinetic, Yos, and Zdenek are town. I greatly foresee town pushing through me, Zdenek and Yos as the next three mislynches. I will defend them vehemently. I will be coming up with my Zdenek is town case first to get back to whoever asked me about that

2) Kanye is town. Kanye is calling me town. We just completed a game together where we hydrad as town (Marketplace Mafia). We know each other's townplay intimately. You should never even CONSIDER lynching one of us should the other flip town

2) ABR is scum. I will get to this in a little bit. I would prefer his lynch over Xalxe by this point.

[MattP]

1) Kinetic, Yos, and Zdenek are town. I greatly foresee town pushing through me, Zdenek and Yos as the next three mislynches. I will defend them vehemently. I will be coming up with my Zdenek is town case first to get back to whoever asked me about that

Town will push for mislynches? I'm confused. Don't you mean scum, Matt?

Hey ABR suppose I really meant town. Explain how that's a scumslip

[MattP]

How about that case you promised?

How about you answer my question?

[MattP]

You just said something completely baseless to try to make someone that has a scumread on you look bad. Try to make the baseless thing less baseless.

[MattP]

In fact it would have made NO sense for you to call me out on that the way you did unless you thought it was a scumslip or you were trying to incriminate me, so I want to you explicitly state why it was a scumslip.

[MattP]

VOTE: ABR

[MattP]

Literally the dumbest fucking flash wagon in the world. I've never experienced this type of pea brained bloodthirsty bias in a game before.

If you kill me, yos, zdenek, kinetic and kanye you lose. Tierce I hope you're scum for your own sake

Leave ABR xalxe and LLD alive and enjoy your loss

Done posting. Not anti town for me to do so because obviously nothing I say ever in this thread will make a difference when a bunch of idiotic vultures are sitting around waiting to extort every post I make.

[MattP]

Oh and reading the PV situation yesterday I felt an utter sense of futility the entire time by the way the majority of you dealt with him. The only people that approached his wagon with half a brain were yos and zdenek. For your sake you'd better leave them alive. Kanye stop being useless and do shit or you're going to lose this game

[MattP]

Oh no wait before I get lynched I'm posting my case on ABR so that if he isn't lynched next you guys are confirmed idiots

[MattP]

Oh and if I die I DEMAND that only yos zdenek kanye and kinetic shoot. If I'm town then my townreads are more trustworthy than most of yours and they're probably town and won't gain rage and if I'm scum then they wouldn't gain rage from killing me

[MattP]

I was going to fucking post the stuff I said I was as soon as ABR fucking responded because his response would have adde to the scum case I already had on him! And why the fuck should I exert any effort when everything I say is turned around on me?? I haven't made ONE single string of posts this entire game that hasn't been turned into "matt is scum" and that NEVER happens in my towngames ever, I want kanye to exert effort because people may actually listen to him and that's not hypocritical but wait its ok I already see you doing to me what you did to PV before lynching him which is playing constant devils advocate and twisting everything around. Honestly tierce what the fuck are you doing, you have me as a scum read and it hasn't changed the entire game and it won't unless I am mod confirmed town so why the fuck do you keep on pandering to me? What are you looking for me to say?

[MattP]

Do me an actual favor, let me say things I want done after I die, ignore those posts until I die instead of fucking covering them up with your snarky retorts and then look a then after I die. Stop responding to me if you wont change your read because you're seriously fucking up every single fucking thing I'm trying to do and it's anti town as fuck, you callin me a hypocrite does NOTHING

[MattP]

Hey xalxe it's different when I have her as a townread for me to pander to her but it doesn't make sense the other way around but I understand that you would bring that up because you're crappy scum

[MattP]

All right, it's not pandering but you're being incredibly excessive with your countering everything I say, even when it's things that are not alignment indicative and the issue with that is that I can't get a word out edgewise that way and the important things are going to be drowned out in it come my death. Just let me say the few things that are important to me and let them stay in unburied posts, because if I'm town scum is going to love the opportunity to leave those posts ignored after my death and I fucking hate that

[MattP]

Here is my case on ABR coming up

[MattP]

Funny that he would try to initiate the effort to shut me up and kill me when he knows I want to post this case, but yeah he's town and I'm scum. If he is scum it's so fucking obvious that I'm town, and he's scummy as FUCK, but I'm the scum out of both of us

[MattP]

That doesn't make ANY fucking sense what you just said, me not udnerstand how a mechanic works after reading the OP and my PM is not scummy, you trying to equate that to what you just did is fucking pathetic

[MattP]

First off, a lot of the things said by ABR are tonally very scummy but let's stick to other things

About tajo's plan or Yos' plan or Kinetic's plan, I am against them all. I just want to play mafia the good old way and scumhunt as we did for half a decade without using mathematics and tables and timestamps. Come on guys, this is meant to be entertaining, not frustrating. I won't participate in any plan.

Either we do it like cowboys and shoot off our suspects or we play the civilized normal way and vote each other. I don't understand why we need to heal and quite frankly I don't completely understand the rules yet so if someone wants to explain to me why I'm supposed to heal scooby that would be great.

COMPLETELY trying to shoot down a plan that could help town and saying we should do it the good old way. Let's look over here to what Kuribo said in Quack Mafia:

• Kuribo: "The funny thing is, people keep saying, 'Oh, it only works if everyone does it.'
  
  The thing to remember about breaking strategies is that scum have more to fear from them than anyone else."
  
  mafia-noob: "Implying that people who aren't on board with it are scum?"
  
  Kuribo: "Most of the time, that's exactly who's against it."

And this is true. He doesn't just shoot down that idea, he shoots down the idea of HAVING ideas. He insists he wants to play the good ol way instead of utilizing a system to the town's benefit.

Posts like 517 make me think that PeregrineV is town. At least one scum attacking him for sure, most likely Kinetic retaliating against PeregriveV's seemingly genuine cowboy hit, from what apparently started as a minor argument about the right number to lynch at. My first impression on Kinetic is good acting over vicious revenge. He could be doing it just to get the game moving or to protect himself, but the dramatic posts are silly and scummy. He's more mature than that lol

States he thinks Kinetic is scum and PV is town before the hurts on PV start but then does NOTHING to stop his death, no advocating or anything but already sets up the next lynch in line being Kinetic. This looks like scum setting up lynches and trying to get two of them instead of one, and I especially think this because PV flipped town and Kinetic is a strong townread.

This is a fucking gem:

Well, it looks like Peregrine is almost finished.

Doesn't express any wilingness to stop it, and didn't at all besides that one previous post. IN FACT he not once mentions PV from that previous post until now, getting stuck in a conversation about Zdenek instead.

And finally, he calls me out on my "scumslip" to try and incriminate me, and when called out on it he still ignores that and turns it around into me saying I would provide cases when I didn't. He basically ADMITS that he called out the scumslip thing on me to make me look bad, and why the fuck would town want to make someone look worse than they actually look? He ADMITTED IT BY IGNORING IT and at the same time he only votes me right after Scooby does which is so convenient:

You just said something completely baseless to try to make someone that has a scumread on you look bad. Try to make the baseless thing less baseless.

In fact it would have made NO sense for you to call me out on that the way you did unless you thought it was a scumslip or you were trying to incriminate me, so I want to you explicitly state why it was a scumslip.

Scumslip or not, attacking me for no reason, saying you have a case when you don't, that's scummy. Coupled with your behavior this entire game and I am ready to go toe to toe with you now buddy.

Unvote, vote MattP

[MattP]

Also the moment where ABR or any scum for that matter thinks they can get away with this scumplay without being caught is a sad fucking moment. His reaction with kanye right now is absolutely fucking terrible

[MattP]

Hey ABR I'll let my case on you do the talking

[MattP]

heal mattp

no seriously guys. matts town.

kanye - MattP - Kinetic scumteam?

LOL because I would strongly defend my two scumbuddies and one of them would strongly defend me to the point of healing me? You couldn't seriously believe something so transparent as town, you're scum and you're slinging mud

[MattP]

Um, so let me get this straight... You wanted Albert to post so you could turn around and use his responses to build a case against him... but you won't do that because all your responses are being turned around on you?

What?

No, that's not what I was saying at all. I was saying that I already had shit to say about ABR but that what he just did could be another thing to bring up in my case if he didn't have a reason for thinking what I said was a scumslip. I didn't think at that time that I wouldn't give cases. I felt optimistic, I was happy that kanye had a townread on me because he knows my play well and I felt positive about re-entering the thread. Then without me posting 5 or so posts to ABR which aren't scummy AT ALL I'm attacked and my wagon builds back up. So I became hopeless again. That makes perfect sense. Please actually consider my case on ABR, I'm practically begging you to

[MattP]

I will post tonally scummy things then.

And yet he has stuck to the plan so far, immediately Healed scooby when it was explained to him why, and asked scooby to Heal him. ABR is participating in the plan, so this whole thing is frankly bollocks.

Yes, after being pressured to one specific plan he did. I'm talking about how he went into the thread advocating this mindset. He was feeling out the atmosphere and when you were so adamant for him to follow the plan he complied. That's not what I am talking about in the slightest.

Hey Matt. Tell me where YOU defended PV, if you had such heebie-jeebies about the PV lynch. This attitude, again, is present in ABR's Townplay. Why is it scummy for him to not care about PV's death, but not for you to not even intervene? Traveling and all, it's hard to believe you wouldn't find a moment to make a brief post defending him when you were posting a Jerusalem image elsewhere.

I was not caught up on the thread at all. I expressed in the thread when I was reading it. I did not get involved because I hadn't read it because I was busy. I am not lying, I would not EVER lie about personal issues intervening in a game and preventing me from reading / posting in it. I had not read the thread because of traveling and 2 midterms and a huge paper. I read it Saturday. SWEAR. Now your interpretation of my response to it come Saturday is up to you, but me and ABR are in two very different seats, with him being caught up with the thread and ignoring it and me not and why are you trying to make what he did ok by saying I did the same thing anyway? Regardless of whether or not I could have done it it doesn't change that it's scummy as fuck to let a lynch go through on a townread while completely ignoring it. I feel like I'm arguing with someone with their fingers in their ears.

Go ahead and read ABR's views on getting scum lynched on the wiki. Go read MoI's Dresden Files Mafia (ABR was my Mason partner). Then go and read your own MD post. YOU are someone who isn't afraid to blow a situation out of proportion to get reads on everyone.

In short: nothing in what you describe ABR's actions to be is an attitude you couldn't see coming from Town. You're stretching to find scum motivation and this case is paper-thin. I'll take it under consideration should you flip Town, but frankly this doesn't move me one bit about lynching/Hurting you.

He's not trying to GET READS ON ME he's fucking throwing HURTS on me to KILL me! That's a very different scenario. Why the fuck are you defending him so hard?

[MattP]

Defending PeregrineV would have been pointless because too many people thought he was scum for me to justify a defense based mostly on gut or build a case on Kinetic who would most likely be under attack anyway if PeregrineV was proved town. Sure, I was mistaken about that and people think Kinetic is town now.

So then you try to turn your gut read into something that can be measured or judged but you don't COMPLETELY ignore it

[MattP]

I'm not answering that right now because I no longer have any fucking clue. For the sake of your town play I hope you're scum, because your play is making me incredibly upset. Part of me feels now like I'm just arguing with scum and that it's completely hopeless

[MattP]

Matt is playing badly and reminds me of Justin Bieber here. It feels like he's spinning his wheels with every post.

I just hated this, it was a cutesy propaganda post

In post 297, Zdenek wrote:
In post 273, Kinetic wrote:
How does claiming simply when you use rage out power roles?
The case on Matt, while it had reasonable beginnings, has become somewhat unbelievable. For purely wifom reasons, I think he's probably town, so I guess I don't care if you want to kill him, but I'm looking elsewhere.


This is hella scummy bro.

In post 333, Xalxe wrote:
In post 332, MattP wrote:
In post 331, Xalxe wrote:
Okay, fine. I actually don't give a shit about your read on zdnek. I do care about you dodging a question, again. Now answer Yosarian's question.

Why are you so interested in my dodging questions?


Why do you continue to do it?

(Two can play at this game mister, and it won't go anywhere)


Guys....

what are you doing

GUys...

STAHP

I hated these two things tonally. I can try to figure out why but I'll post them for now

The part where you're like "this case started good". It's day one and with no additional info, if someone is scummy it sticks to them, forever. It's not like you claw your way out of a bad spot. You post scummy things, people attack you for it, that's the normal way of things, and even if people invent bad extra reasons that you're scum, that doesn't cancel the original reasons people had for suspecting you.

This is why he thought that Zdenek was scum...because he thought I had proven myself as town and once someone is a scumread they're scum. It's so fucking shitty it feels like he's reaching very hard

[MattP]

He's not trying to GET READS ON ME he's fucking throwing HURTS on me to KILL me! That's a very different scenario. Why the fuck are you defending him so hard?

Tierce is an excellent player. She knows how I play, how you play, and how Zdnek plays.

It's kanye's defense of you that I find most unsettling.

The problem I'm having, is that although Albert is acting irrational... this is more indicative of him being town in my experience...

When have I been rational as town, pray tell me. If you're pretending to be surprised, pretend harder.

Tierce is an excellent player and knowing she is wrong about PV and so wrong about me and the way she dealt with us makes me incredibly disappointed.

Kanye hydrad with me for 2 months in a game that just ended. We were town. I know nuances in his play that make him town and I'm sure he can do the same for me. I'm confident he is town. I'm sure he feels the same towards me. If I were you I would trust kanye's read on my over Tierce's if you're just considering those as reasons as to why I'm town or scum.

I don't care about your play being irrational, I care about it being opportunistic, fencesitty, destroying of protown mechanics, and propaganda-based

[MattP]

Unless both Kanye and I are scum then you should trust us because if even one of us is town the scum one of us would be caught and I'm POSITIVE about that

[MattP]

You didn't misunderstand a plan, you said that we shouldn't use ANY plans, that was what you said and don't extort it

You didn't defend PV

You tried incriminating me for something that wasn't a scumslip

In your 30ish posts you've done a number of scummy things and your tone sucks. So it's not INSANE to think you're scum

[MattP]

Oh yeah because I hate Bieber you caught me

[MattP]

I didn't look at any other WiH games, this is my first game of WiH

It doesn't matter if we're sheeping. We are very confident about our ability to read each other. And that makes sense, given the situation that we hydra. Fate does the same with Nuwen. In Always On he went 180 on his Nuwen read one day and when asked why and was called scummy for it he pointed out something really seemingly irrelevant that tipped him off to her towniness and he ended up being right.

My case on you happened while I read the part I missed. I don't agree with you "Not defending Peregrine...how many people could that be said for?" point because it's not true and even if it was it doesn't change that it's wrong, can be incredibly opportunistic and scummy. You and Tierce saying other people have done it doesn't change that. And I don't think anyone else has anyway and if someone has please point it out because we should be focusing on them for it as well.

You aren't shooting down plans, you're shooting down the ability for people to come up with plans and that's scummy. In marketplace mafia I came up with a transfer plan that ultimately fucked scum so hard and it was complicated but it helped us procure the NK and control all kills in the game, winning with only 1 town-directed miskill (including both lynches and NKs, we NKd two scum out of our two shots, daykilled 1 scum out of our 1 shot, and lynched 3 scum out of our 4 lynches). Plans can be great, and in Quack mafia a plan would have spared town. Being against plans is BS.

[MattP]

Because someone in this game brought that up when I was catching up and I can find it if you want me to

[MattP]

THANK

FUCKING

GOD

[MattP]

Any degree of rationale in this game makes me INCREDIBLY HAPPY

THANK YOU KIND SIR

[MattP]

Matt: Compare Albert's player here to Name of the Wind, as you were in that game too. In that game he was scum, you weren't. I think you'll find, Albert is actually acting more like his town self here than how he normally acts as scum.

This actually crossed my mind, but he was SK there so I'm not willing to compare the two

[MattP]

Xalxe definitely. I don't know who the third would be, most likely not scooby because he's played this poorly and densely in all the games I've played with him (History Mafia, Name of the Wind). Tierce I'm unsure about and I want to talk out the ABR situation with her because I think it will be very helpful to me figuring out her alignment. LLD I'm going to avoid like the plague until I can't any longer.

[MattP]

I'd actually like ABR first because I see myself possibly being wrong about Xalxe but I'm damn confident about ABR. I NORMALLY wouldn't mind doing it Xalxe --> ABR but if I'm wrong even once let's be honest I'm done for so I'd rather start with the person I'm positive about

[MattP]

Oh yes, I'll get to my Zdenek and Yos townread explanations and this time I'll actually do it, but my comps about to die, so lemme find a charger

[MattP]

Oh yeah, LLDs vote on me was laughable, thanks for reminding me

[MattP]

Actually, reread makes VM a VERY strong townread (and I'm not saying that because he voted ABR, although I do think if ABR flips scum then VM is as good as conftown for building momentum on the ABR wagon when it was in no way a good decision for scum at the time). Specifically his argument with Yos is what makes me feel that:

because it looks to me like you were both distancing from him and trying to deter people from killing him at the same time.

I'm voting and hurting him, but at the same time I'm trying to stop people from hurting him? Do you not see how convoluted that sounds if I'm scum trying to bus/distance PV? Also, even if that's the case, so far I've only objected to you hurting PV and not anyone else; if your explanation here is in any way true, why just attack you and not everyone else?

This is the towniest self-defense I've read all game, reads incredibly rational and not over-defensive or accusatory. I actually lost my townread a bit with Yos because of this, because it's a rather stupid accusation from Yos and looks like straw pulling.

Why are you still attacking Yos? The 5 votes issue you keep bringing up makes no sense at all.

I'm...not?

Well, to be more correct, I need to refresh myself as to why Yos felt bad to me. I said that already. If you want to label it as a "wait-and-see" kind of thing, that's fine (cuz it kinda is), but I'm not attacking him right now.

And I also like this A LOT from VM

Going over Yos again, what initially struck me as VERY towny was his unvote on me when momentum was so high for my lynch, although Zdenek actually started the opposition to my lynch. I also thought during my initial catchup that his discussions with PV about not being haywire and hurting people with not enough votes read very logical, but a reread doesn't make it SCUMMY but I can see it as him going, "look at me be town" alternatively. He's a slight townread after a reread, but VM has considerably increased in towniness for me.

Kanye is a strong as fuck townread and I am actually not going to go SPECIFICALLY into why because I think that people already have a townread on him so it makes no difference and because I want to preserve the meta knowledge I have for the future.

Zdenek is a beacon of towniness. His opposition to my lynch and advocation for my towniness was the most ballsy, impressive thing I've seen all game. This is because he didn't just call me town for towncred, and he didn't just lightly defend me to look like he had an opinion, the way he did it showed that he was CRITICALLY scumhunting and had no fear of defending the reads he had. And this has been going on the whole game. Early game he was a bitch about making sure his opinions were heard against Kinetic

Yosarian's pattern of votes and his reasons for them is really bothering me now.

His first stated suspicion was on me of OMGUS after Kinetic, Quadz and kdowns had stated their suspicions of me.

His second was on MattP, also for OMGUS, after Tierce, LLD and kdowns had stated their suspicions of him.

Next he votes ABR for not posting.

Next voted PeregrineV, for shooting back at Kinetic because shooting back is a pretty solid scum tell, this was after several people had suggested their suspicions of Peregrine.

Most recently he's been going after Voided for chainsaw defending Peregrine.

His votes on Me, MattP and Peregrine were votes on popular wagons.

His reasons for his votes on me and Matt and for his suspicion on Voided are all weak/boilerplate scum tells.

I also read Voided's concern about Yosarian showing up, putting the fifth vote on Peregrine and then hurting him as quite natural in the context of his earlier comments about wanting to raise the number of votes required to start hurting.

Posts like this read incredibly rational. His rational, uninhibited play all game has been impressive and I'm damn confident that Zdenek, VM, and Kanye are town right now.

[MattP]

Kinetic too, let me get to that.

[MattP]

The one where they posted giant consecutive walls? I skipped over it mostly but I can look over it

[MattP]

All right, I'll try to read it tonight I'm traveling (once again)

[MattP]

^Things like this rekindle my townread for Tierce

Thank you, needed that

[MattP]

That was actually fcking terrible what you just posted

Poster fixed.

[MattP]

That was actually fcking terrible what you just posted

This was me

Also, this:

It's been fun, gentlemen. Kill SPB for me if it's not over when the list is depleted.

[12/5/12 4:11:32 PM] mattypjhu: Phil is the last scum and the game is going to end by tomorrow
[12/5/12 4:11:34 PM] mattypjhu: And I say this because
[12/5/12 4:11:53 PM] mattypjhu: A last scum that knows it's over always says something cartoonishly heroic
[12/5/12 4:12:07 PM] mattypjhu: "GL guys after I die make sure you get that SPB *shakes fist*"

I mean, it was completely over for you by that point so it doesn't really matter but it's possible we in the neighborhood could have switched to PV (some people expressed desire to vig him). Also KKB and I had the NK, not Tammy but it was a cover for when we bought it.

I still want an ABR lynch first and foremost

[MattP]

"Mattp is scum please remember that" over dramatic heroism bullshit when you have one vote on you

[MattP]

*Scooby and ABR pushed*

*Game suddenly becomes completely dead*

[MattP]

*Scooby and ABR pushed*

*Game suddenly becomes completely dead*

^This is me, fucking shit I won't do it again I promise

[MattP]

Holy shit wow surprise I had no idea that you would completely disregard everything that's happened, the conversation I was having with you, and the blatant OMGUS from ABR and Scooby wow wow wow

[MattP]

Why specifically did you vote at that moment?

[MattP]

I must say I'm surprised you're not all over me as well, Kinetic. You can feel how rusty I am? lol

Unvote

VOTE: Xalxe

[MattP]

Absolutely not. That was a good town post good job good job

[MattP]

What's MY plan is to catch scum? or what should we be doing as a group?

Let me actually ask YOU a question too. If I were scum do you think I would have unvoted you the moment pressure started going elsewhere? AND do you see how the post I quoted looks incredibly unguarded and towny as fuck?

[MattP]

Ok let me get even more specific. There is NO WAY at the moment I unvoted that I couldn't have been cognizant of the fact that it could easily be used against me given my caliber. Yet I still unvoted because I genuinely considered it incredibly town. So fill in the blanks. At absolute worse you could consider my unvote wifom coming from scum.

[MattP]

I'm straight as a paper clip

Pedit: let me get on a comp I'm on my phone right now and then we will continue this conversation

[MattP]

If I were scum I wouldn't have changed my vote especially when I explicitly previously said I would prefer your lynch over scoobys previously and I was starting to really "win" it was completely counterproductive from a scum perspective but whatever this is obviously wifom now so I'd ignore the vote flip if I were you. I think your biggest concern would be if Matt would actually find that post you made town enough to abandon ship. Kanye could give you the best indication of that. But I'll find you some games to look at when I have a comp or alternatively look at Barkley, history mafia, Spartacus if you want some scum games

[MattP]

OK I WILL PRECISELY EXPLAIN WHY ABR IS GUARANTEED TOWN GET READY FUCKERS

[MattP]

I must say I'm surprised you're not all over me as well, Kinetic. You can feel how rusty I am? lol

Part 1: Let's make a statement to start off with. If we can agree that this is a genuine post, it means that ABR is town. Scum can make genuine posts as well, but this SPECIFIC post, if genuine, guarantees that ABR is town.

Part 2: This post specifically targets on something so peculiar, organic and specific that there is literally NO WAY this could be fabricated. If you don't feel genuineness oozing from this post then there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with you.

Part 3: BECAUSE this is so, regardless of ANYTHING I previously thought about ABR, this proves WITHOUT A DOUBT that ABR is town

If there is one thing I'm good at, it's catching shit like this (i.e. catching statements one player makes to another about something that has nothing to do with them scumhunting but just genuinely talking about something mundane and figuring out that only town would say them), and I will post examples from previous games for meta proof:

@UberNinja: Hello again, sir. I won't be making the same mistake as last game. If I get to LyLo you can bet I will be thinking my vote through a little more carefully.

But Maestro's comment about UN's advice was as good as a townslip

This was because of Maestro referencing something about his relationship to UN

____

There's one in *ongoing*

____

Disney mafia:

Klick asked me at one point if I thought he was town now that something had transpired in thread and it was just a huge towntell based on our play history

This was Klick referencing his relationship to me. He was town
____

In post 78, chesskid3 wrote:
I mean the actual question ought to be

given fuckin CHESSKID is in a fate game

if there were a miller

what are the odds it'd be chesskid


Chesskid is miller

This was chesskid referencing his relationship to Fate. Chesskid was town.

____

I'm sure there are a lot more examples but I don't actually think I've ever called out something like this and have been wrong but by all means look over my town meta:

Disney Villain Mafia
NY 157
Name of the Wind
Karma Mafia
Open 430
Always On Mafia
Mini 1359
Mini 1336 - Revolution Mafia
The Game of the Year
Open 415: Bird 7P
Newbie 1268: The Lance of Truth
Catch-22 Mafia
Mini 1345
Newbie 1249
Newbie 1235

You can add Marketplace to that too.

So the actual question at hand is if you think I would consider that statement a genuine one. And it is a completely genuine statement. Readjust your scumdar if you think otherwise.

[MattP]

Got WHAT for you VM? GO AHEAD AND SAY IT

[MattP]

Got WHAT for you VM? GO AHEAD AND SAY IT

Dear mod,

Please send me a PM warning me that next time I do this I will receive punishment.

Regards,
MattP

[MattP]

I was asking if you got something similar to me. Not that you have to say what it is, just if you have it.

Like something mundane you've said to someone that proves you're town? I don't think so.

[MattP]

It's fine if you disagree with me for now, as long as you come around to it before he's lynched. ALSO ALSO IDGAF if you've "mundane-slipped" because you're obvtown anyway

Lemme get together me T-->S list

[MattP]

IDGAF about making a list due to the general lack of scumkills

TOWN

kanyeknowsbest
Albert B. Rampage
VoidedMafia
Kinetic
Zdenek
Yosarian2
Lady Lambdadelta
Tierce
quadz08
scooby
Xalxe

SCUM

AND just so you know, if we kill off Xalxe, scooby, and quadz there will be one scum left at MOST

[MattP]

It's been a VERY progressive thing for a while, would you like me to point out specific bad posts you've made? We can make it really simple and start with the ones on this page

[MattP]

The last time I called you town was 358
In 896 I explicitly discussed all of my townreads and you were not part of that list

[MattP]

The last time I called you town was 358
In 896 I explicitly discussed all of my townreads and you were not part of that list

[MattP]

So much for that rekindled Townread there.

On ME??? At what point EVER did you EVER have a townread on me?

L
O
FUCKING
L

[MattP]

Hey GUESS WHAT Tierce, now that people understand that I'm town I get to be a BITCH and scumhunt without having to worry about my shoes getting stuck in the mud every fucking step I make with incessant idiotic cases on me. And your baseless little remarks towards me aren't going to change that

[MattP]

Why on Earth are you reaching SO FUCKING FAR for a scumread on me Tierce? Why are you explicitly ignoring every towntell exuded from me? Why do you disappear every time I start obvtowning it up and every time something I say can be in ANY way be deemed controversial you pop in to state I'm scum? This is the most anti-town, discouraging play I've seen from you and I actually at this point COMPLETELY refuse to believe you're town. You're on my shortlist for death, congratulations

[MattP]

Oh but yes I'm SOOOO scum I've introduced every unconventional case in this game so far and have shed light on people that were being completely ignored (ABR and Xalxe), I've actively scumhunted and have been completely willing to admit when I'm wrong or a reads changed, I've been completely fluid in my play and pushes, I've steered lynch discussion away from obvtown like Zdenek and Kinetic and onto other players PROBABLY preventing Zdenek's lynch

AND

I've FOUGHT MY ASS OFF to stay in the game and all you are EVER willing to give me is a random pop-in here and there to say I'm scum.

How

Absolutely

Cheeky

[MattP]

Sorry that your last entrance in the game where you called me scum and were completely unwilling to consider anything I had posted to you in the discussion about ABR scum or read anything I had posted in general made me once again lost that townread sorry sorry sorry

[MattP]

What's your read on me right now?

[MattP]

Also also also SORRY SO MUCH scum that I put the nail in the coffin for me being OBV-AS-SHIT-town and that you had to lose your easy mislynch opportunity BIG TEAR

[MattP]

Vote: Scooby

So while I have absolutely no drive to discuss with Zdenek myself, I'm a bit wary of how he just let my "yeah bugger off" post go without further prodding and a silent vote on scooby instead.

So you read up to 930 judging by this post or your comment to Zdenek was completely bullshit and feigned scumhunting

VOTE: MattP

941 you vote me

Holy shit wow surprise I had no idea that you would completely disregard everything that's happened, the conversation I was having with you, and the blatant OMGUS from ABR and Scooby wow wow wow

Why specifically did you vote at that moment?

Because I woke up three hours ago and your post reminded that this game exists and that you are scum.

It's pretty clear I haven't reread the game yet. >.>

So you read to 930, voted me immediately on 941 as soon as you woke up BEFORE bothering to read 10 posts? Sorry that I'm having a TAD bit of an issue believing that and sorry that that made my townread on you go right out the window

[MattP]

Can you do me a favor and read from 954 onwards from now and then tell me your read on me and if it changes can you please unvote me because currently I'm at 5 votes and while I THINK that at least 2 people on my wagon are scum and wouldn't have the balls to start hurting me given the strong townreads a lot of other people have on me I'd like to avoid being dead thank you.

Please after reading tell me what your read is on me and why. If you don't have time to read then unvote me for now and get to it later.

[MattP]

EBWOP: 954 onwards FOR now*

[MattP]

Okie dokie

[MattP]

Vote XALXE everyone

[MattP]

(4) Scooby - Zdenek, Yosarian2, Kinetic, quadz
(3) MattP - scooby, Lady Lambdadelta, Xalxe
(2) Albert B. Rampage - Voidedmafia, quadz08
(1) Tierce - kanyeknowsbest
(1) Xalxe - MattP

(1) Not voting - Tierce, ABR

[MattP]

VOTE: Scooby

[MattP]

Before we start hurting I want to assign three townreads to do the hurting.

KANYE, ABR and VM are obvtown and I vote them.

[MattP]

Because if Scooby is town then hasn't there been a previous scum game where all scum in the hurt pile gained rage? This has been mentioned several times now

[MattP]

But I'm not voting Scooby?

That doesn't matter? What matters is that you are the hurter because you're obvtown regardless of your read on him. Otherwise you're allowing someone else to hurt him that you don't know the alignment of, which would be stupid and anti-town

So I don't see the problem for you.

[MattP]

Hey Matt. How do you think it's okay to ask me to unvote you, but then you vote an inactive slot the moment you get the chance to put him at 5 votes?

well I'm sick and

not postiung untilk fridy becaus of hospitl shit

but ok

i was not talkign to ayou anyways

scumbag

I literally don't see how my request has any similarity to me voting scooby. I asked you to unvote me after catching up if you lost your scumread on me. You then unvoted because you didn't have time to catch up. How in any way does that have anything to do with me voting my second-strongest scumread?

scooby is town. wth matt?

• Looks we have retarded town all over again.
  Mattp and Yosa are scum. Please remember that.
  Nrever lynch kanye, kinetic, tierce or abr. zdenek is prob third party now that I think about it. okay.
  peace.

  
  

  oh quadz is town as well. lamdadelta slight town, coyuld be preemptevily bussing matt, but fuck this, ok

  
  

  That was actually fcking terrible what you just posted
  
  Poster fixed.

  
  

  no it was not
  
  who the fuck are you

  
  

  That was actually fcking terrible what you just posted

  
  This was me
  
  Also, this:
  
  

  It's been fun, gentlemen. Kill SPB for me if it's not over when the list is depleted.

  
  [12/5/12 4:11:32 PM] mattypjhu: Phil is the last scum and the game is going to end by tomorrow
  [12/5/12 4:11:34 PM] mattypjhu: And I say this because
  [12/5/12 4:11:53 PM] mattypjhu: A last scum that knows it's over always says something cartoonishly heroic
  [12/5/12 4:12:07 PM] mattypjhu: "GL guys after I die make sure you get that SPB *shakes fist*"
  
  I mean, it was completely over for you by that point so it doesn't really matter but it's possible we in the neighborhood could have switched to PV (some people expressed desire to vig him). Also KKB and I had the NK, not Tammy but it was a cover for when we bought it.

  
  
  I still want an ABR lynch first and foremost

  
  

  "Mattp is scum please remember that" over dramatic heroism bullshit when you have one vote on you

  
  
  Also I don't like your "wth matt" instead of explaining your townread to me so change that.

matt explain your xalxe read to me.

I've explained why I think Xalxe is scum. He's been scum from the part where I called him out and NOTHING he has done has changed that. I can go into why nothing he's done has changed that if you want.

[MattP]

Kanye, you seem to be backing out of your townread on me, why's that?

[MattP]

WILD GUESS

[MattP]

seems like a odd thing 2 guess @

I disagree with you

[MattP]

Lol

[MattP]

I fucking knew yos was town

I KNEW IT

I feel great

Yes we should rage dump and I'm fine with being one of the people although I wish xalxe would as well

[MattP]

Over ABR

[MattP]

I have 5 people I'd like to dump. The list contains one unexpected person that noone is going to agree with but c'est la vie

Xalxe
kanyeknowsbest
Lady Lambdadelta
quadz08
Tierce

[MattP]

Oi, this is a list of people I would like to see dump.

All 11 people in the game (aka not scooby) should vote for their three people

VOTE: Xalxe -1st dumper
VOTE: quadz08 -2nd dumper
VOTE: kanyeknowsbest -3rd dumper
VOTE: Tierce -4th dumper

list them from 1st to 4th as I did. players listed as 1st will get 4 pts, 2nd will get 3 pts, 3rd will get 2 pts and 4th will get 1 pt

[MattP]

Player with the most points will dump first, etc etc

[MattP]

What if I told you that the scumteam is Scooby, Xalxe and KKB?

[MattP]

Who were the players early game that wouldn't shut up about LLD being towny? Because if those players were Xalxe and Scooby and KKB ignored the fuck out of her, like I remember, then she's town and they're the scum P:

[MattP]

Actually Scooby was very fencesitty with LLD all game, I think it was Xalxe and Tierce that were super fans of LLD

[MattP]

Let me try to organize my thoughts about kanye, but regardless of how I feel about him this is already a won town game as long as we agree that Zdenek, Yos, myself, Kinetic, ABR, and VM are never touched. I'm starting to really warm up to LLD town too, lemme go over her

[MattP]

Yep Tierce was her biggest advocate.

I'm very willing to call LLD and Tierce town too after thinking things over. Weaker townreads, but town nonetheless. I forgot how townie Tierce was when I bitchfitted her early game. LLD is playing very similar to how she played in Always On and Asexual Mafia

[MattP]

I'd agree with a Scooby --> Xalxe --> Quadz/KKB --> Quadz/KKB --> LLD --> Tierce order

[MattP]

I'm 100% confident at most 1 scum would remain after that and regardless if a scum remained it would be a town win

[MattP]

ABR

don't post if you don't feel well enough to but I don't like when I drop pressure on a player and they go MIA, regardless of the reasoning behind it it makes me VERY paranoid.

[MattP]

Because you've been quiet as fuck and completely ignorant of all of the pushing of my townread I've been doing to you and asking for you to back me up when you claim you have me as a townread and if you were town you would be my bro