Mini 1397: War is Hell (Game Over)

[Tierce]

Seriously, look at this dissonant crap. He wants me to take his cases seriously, but thinks my reasoning/whatever is hilarious and says he'll ignore me and I'm the first person he appeals to. A person he is openly accusing of not being rational. Instead of, in fact, ignoring me and resorting to his other Townreads, he is making cases for

me

to look at? What is with this deflection and appealing to reason from

me

?

[MattP]

Summary of the story Tierce, regardless of my play you've played a terrible game so enjoy that though your ego will probably get in the way of it and you completely allowed scum to trod all over this mislynch with your play and haven't in any way been using it to scumhunt anyone but me. Any statements any players have made towards me you haven't evaluated in the slightest, and a shitton of it could be considered incredibly scummy and opportunistic. Just try to redeem yourself after this and actually look back at the posts instead of moving on with your grand chariot of bad play

[MattP]

I'm not appealing to you, none of this is manipulative, I'm telling you you're playing poorly and to shape up your play when I am gone but I don't actually expect you to take anything I say seriously and instead turn everything around. So keep doing it and making yourself feel like fucking sherlock just don't be a dick about it when I flip is all

[Tierce]

Yawn.

Look, I have nothing to be sorry for until I know your alignment. So you can stop with the pathetic appeals. I'll consider your cases if and when you flip Town, but frankly I think they are utterly ridiculous right now and that you are grasping at straws.

[MattP]

I have literally never been in a situation where I haven't even been given a CHANCE, regardless of my play. Where the attacker hasn't even tried to talk to me in any form and open dialogue but instead has shot every single thing I've said down and has treated me like mod confirmed scum. It is a terrible strategy, it is discouraging for me, it makes me not want to try to even help because I feel like an absolute villain. Even if I'm scum Tierce you can still talk to me and consider the things I'm saying because either way it WILL BE OF HELP and the way you're posting towards me is completely anti-town

[quadz08]

Tierce, you're doing that thing you do where you point at them and just keep on fucking pointing and it's entirely unproductive. Take a step back. Quit it.

Matt, calm the fuck down.

[MattP]

Tierce, that's fine. I am fine with that. I am simply going to say two things, and I will quote them right before I flip again so you can see them:

1) Consider my cases on LLD and Xalxe please, more so on Xalxe
2) In the future when you have a scumread on them it's still anti-town to treat them the way you treated me. I asked you to consider my case on xalxe and you never even responded to anything about it. Even if you thought it was grasping at straws you could have told me why but you ignored it because you had me as confscum. I didn't like that. Please just in the future don't do that to a scumread. I used to do that to scumreads too (see Mehdi in Name of the Wind) but I've found it's just anti-town

Ok, I'm done.

[MattP]

I'm not angry Quadz, I'm frustrated. I am explaining why I'm frustrated and trying to be productive about it to help the game progress better after I die. I think this is good. Maybe noone agrees but I see good in it so I'm going to do it. I just don't want my death to be a waste and I was afraid about that.

[MattP]

Anyway, my general advice after I die is that there has to be some sort of cohesiveness. There is too much waste of space with spec argument. Just choose a plan and stick to it and have everyone try to work together. I think that Quadz, Kanye, Tierce, Kinetic and Zdenek can be trusted. I would like it if they can work together and try to bounce ideas off of each other. I think LLD is a negative asset to the game regardless of alignment. I have Xalxe as an INCREDIBLY strong scumread. I think he is being incredibly opportunistic and is piggybacking on other people's cases on me and has generated nothing original. Yos was frustrating me but I think I just need to take a step back because I'm definitely finding people that are pushing me scummier in general at this point (your post made me very paranoid Quadz about my case on Xalxe and I almost removed you from my townlist but I just need to take a step back)

[quadz08]

I get it. Just trust me, take a little time away from this game. Don't read new posts for 24-48 hours. Come back when you're in a calm state of mind.

Right now you're rambling and being stupid and angry, and it's completely unproductive. I can practically smell your frustration, and when your frustration comes across that strongly in your posts, there's no way possible to be productive.

P-EDIT: yeah basically what you just said.

[Zdenek]

I'm pretty iffy on the first part of Matt's case on Xalxe, since the scum game that he provided as an example is a micro, so I'm not sure if it's a good comparison. On the other hand, his comparison of Xalxe different reactions to Tierce seems fair. Xalxe's comment about Matt's use of meta was pretty much just reactionary. Looking at the game Matt quoted, Xalxe didn't appear to put so little thought into things as town. Further investigation into this is probably warranted.

I'll just sit here like a good fucking scum, speak only when spoken to and quietly die.

Do you think this is how scum play?

cus the latter at least he does p much as both town and scum

links?

Tierce, you asked me to explain about what I think of the case against Matt. No comment? I mean, when I see this

Scum-LLD is much more likely to go over the top with ridiculous pushes.

I get the impression that you aren't really paying attention to LLD's push against Matt, which is over the top.

Also, why is Xalxe an easy target?

[Kinetic]

I swear to God that if I watch from the Dead QT any of those three end up as scum winning it I will be livid and I don't give one single ounce of a shit if you take this as "AtE" and try to rip is apart like every single thing I've done this round. You've played a terrible game so far Tierce, you had complete legitimate reasons for half of your case but you allowed yourself to become completely overwhelmed with conf bias and antagonized every single thing I did this game. Even as scum I would not have done as many "negative intent" things as you've called me out for. It;'s absolutely preposterous that you would call out every single point I make as either AtE, a bad attack on a player, etc. At least recognize that calling my push on Xalxe opportunistic was a dick thing to do when I flip because as town there is no such thing as opportunism. Realize you were wrong and completely swelled up with conf bias. I'm disappointed in your play, you played a much better game in Catch 22 and I hope this is the last time I ever see you do this. Enjoy your mislynch. And no, I don't give a shit once again if you take this as AtE, you can come back to this post and reevaluate it when I flip.

I'll admit, I'm not 100% sold on the Matt case, but I'm having trouble with his targets as well. Xalve I can see. I would even put PV above Xalve, but I'm not seeing LLD and I'm not sure why he's 100% on Zd as well (although, granted, I've moved Zd to scummy neutral on my list away from solid scum). If anything, that is selling me more on the MattP case then on Tierce's attacks. I agree on his quadz town read though, and although I'm not 100% on his play, I do agree on Tierce though so he's not completely out of it.

[Tierce]

Tierce, you asked me to explain about what I think of the case against Matt. No comment? I mean, when I see this

Scum-LLD is much more likely to go over the top with ridiculous pushes.

I get the impression that you aren't really paying attention to LLD's push against Matt, which is over the top.

Also, why is Xalxe an easy target?

Not tonight; I'll answer you later when I actually feel like reading stuff in depth. The short version is that (obviously) I disagree with you.

And no, I don't think that LLD's push resembles the kind of pushes she does as scum.

Xalxe is an easy target because he's not a great player. He lurks, he flakes, he doesn't push wagons effectively or draw NKs. Despite his join date, he's below MattP's pay grade. I've played with him and modded for him a few times. Sadly, this is the truth.

And I don't think MattP's comparison is actually fair. Have you looked through the rest of D2 in Newbie 1289? Xalxe didn't question my Townieness there, and only thought to bring it to question on D3 (hilariously, I died overnight, so that was cut short). Here, he decided that a few posts against him and in support of me merit a massive scumread. That is nonsensical, especially when Xalxe claims to have been following an could already have formed reads. Coming into the game with his decision made is NOT scummy in any manner.

[Kinetic]

OK, Kinetic is annoyed that he doesn't quite like a lot of the players who are being active at scum, lets get down and find out who is not talking:

Scooby - I'll admit, I don't like this guy at all. I just played a game with him where we were both town, but at each other's throats the whole game. He had better reads than me, I had more town sway then him, but ultimately town won the game. Personally, it wasn't because of me that town did so. That being said, he was a lot more active and confrontational in that game, I'm curious why he isn't like that here.

Albert - Admittedly, a very lurky guy, so I'm not too surprised to see him on the not many posts list. Albert was also in the same game with me and scooby, but in that one he was individual scum (Arsonist). There is some reason to believe this might be a new scum meta for him (being lurky),

FOS:Albert

. Another note, Albert and I are friends outside of the game, but mainly over FB and not RL, because we have played in many games with each other. That being said, I have difficulty reading him sometimes and tend to think he's town when he isn't, so that may color my judgments.

kdowns - 4 posts, none of them useful. I don't know him though, so any clue on his meta?

There don't appear to be any other major lurkers. Everyone else has more than 10 posts... Well that was unfruitful. At best I'd say there is 1-2 scum in the lurkers here, but there could be none. Oy, ok, time for me to maybe re-read and see if I can pick up something on the backside.

[MattP]

Waddya know kinetic townread gone

[quadz08]

What was the point of 363, Kinetic?

[Yosarian2]

unvote:MattP

Not real happy with his play, but it does feel a lot like his play in my last game with him when he was town, and I don't really see a plausable scum motivation for a lot of it. I'm going to call him null-ish for now, and I don't want to leave my vote there (especially not if Kinetic is serious about wanting to start hurting anyone with 5 votes on them).

I will say, Matt, that I think this kind of posting is anti-town, and I would like it if you knocked it off:

Dear MattP,

Any time your targets aren't pathetically easy, feel free to let me know. I won't bother replying to your posts until then.

Love, hellfire and brimstone,
-- Tierce

You are actually hilarious, so I'm completely ignoring you for the rest of this game.

Also, I still would like you to explain your read on Zdenek.

On another note,

Vote:Albert

Get in here and play, ABR, we need to hear from you.

[Kinetic]

What was the point of 363, Kinetic?

When I have trouble with some of my reads, or when I don't have a solid scum read on someone I will sometimes go to the people who are not doing anything and see if there might be scum there. Not a lot of those people in this game though, which means I'm missing something probably.

[MattP]

I'll admit, I'm not 100% sold on the Matt case

Please say this same thing again for me Kinetic but like really dumb it down for me, as in explain EXACTLY what you mean to me

There don't appear to be any other major lurkers. Everyone else has more than 10 posts... Well that was unfruitful.

At best I'd say there is 1-2 scum in the lurkers here, but there could be none.

Oy, ok, time for me to maybe re-read and see if I can pick up something on the backside.

This isn't even intuitively bad to me, this is concretely terrible

[MattP]

@Yos: Getting to you now, and I know my comment to Tierce was not a good thing objectively, but she is antagonizing me regardless of how productive I try to be / how much I try to communicate with her so eventually you just throw your hands up in the air. When she starts treating me like I'm not mod confirmed scum I'll talk to her.

[Kinetic]

I'll admit, I'm not 100% sold on the Matt case

Please say this same thing again for me Kinetic but like really dumb it down for me, as in explain EXACTLY what you mean to me

There don't appear to be any other major lurkers. Everyone else has more than 10 posts... Well that was unfruitful.

At best I'd say there is 1-2 scum in the lurkers here, but there could be none.

Oy, ok, time for me to maybe re-read and see if I can pick up something on the backside.

This isn't even intuitively bad to me, this is concretely terrible

-.-; I'm not even sure what the first thing you're saying is saying. As for the second, I thought I'd find more in the lurker reads, but after looking into them and finding very few lurkers, I didn't know what to conclude with. I wrote down some quick thoughts, but instead of deleting the post and starting over I decided to post it anyway and see if anyone picked up on something I didn't.

[MattP]

You're not sold on the case on me being scum, right?

[Kinetic]

You're not sold on the case on me being scum, right?

Correct.

[scooby]

Content later tonight.

[MattP]

You're not sold on the case on me being scum, right?

Correct.

All right, then your grammar doesn't make sense but whatever