Mini 1397: War is Hell (Game Over)

[Tierce]

I'm still thinking about mass-claiming in general.

So?

[MattP]

All right

[Tierce]

Why aren't you voting?

[MattP]

Why aren't you voting?

Why does my vote matter right now when I'm obviously doing something?

[Tierce]

Heh, bugger that, he'll just spin a pretty tale.
MattP is scum. I don't recall any instances in which he was doing this pussy-footing I'll-wait-for-when-you-get-back as Town. In a game where votes count less than normal (and FoSes are ridiculous, quadz), Matt being this disinterested with unleashing unholy fire on someone (anyone) is just

not him

.

VOTE: MattP

PEdit: Oh there you are. Hi!

[MattP]

Ohhh shit Tierce you know me so well!

[MattP]

I have a target. I am not going to compromise my target. While my target was here I was aggressively questioning him. He is taking a 4 day break from the thread, but I am not going to suddenly become uninterested in him because of that. But don't worry lil babe, after him you're next on my list

[Tierce]

I'm impressed. I didn't know your posts could sound

that

forced.

Learn something new every game. Come on, then. I'm not afraid of you.

[MattP]

VOTE: Tierce

Wah wah wah Matt's pussy footing

Good job having a tantrum and outing yourself, ask me how much of a fuck I give about your intelligible tissy fit, scum

[MattP]

I've dealt with my mother's conf bias about me being a malicious ass hole all day since I've been stuck home for the holidays. Ask me how much of a shit I give about your borderline-less-intelligent conf bias'ing

[MattP]

Hey Tierce, here is my question for you:

Why did you completely ignore the Zdenek wagon, not get involved whatsoever, have no semblance of a read on him even though he probably has the most writing so far in the game which is coated with emotion and more opinionated than anything else in-thread, and then make one snarky remark ONLY WHEN his wagon started growing about how he's "tunneling again dear Heaven" because that was soooo helpful and y'know not like at all influencing of the continued growth of the wagon without having to place a vote yourself and have a stake in the lynch?

[MattP]

Just for the record, Zdenek is town

Oh look I have a read on him

[Zdenek]

Very simple why it's obvious. Everyone else in the game agrees its a good plan and it's obvious. You don't. Your OMGUS vote is noted. Please die scum.

It's not obvious. I've pointed out a few possible negatives. You have not addressed any of them, but instead chosen to posture as being pro-town, while repeating that it's a good idea.

Yeah, I'm still very much in favor of this. Just to make it unofficially official:

VOTE: Zdenek

Please tell me how you think that town claiming uses of rage is going to stop scum from using it secretly.

Soooo another game of Zdenek tunneling on someone?

Hooray. This is my joyous face.

We're on page 6, Jesus Christ.

I'm still thinking about mass-claiming in general.

So?

There are some circumstances where I can imagine us catching one scum with a mass-claim, but I think that we would probably end up with our power roles outed an a lynch pool containing the scum and most of the players. So, I am not leaning towards it being a good idea.

[MattP]

Hey Zdenek, read on Tierce, go

[Tierce]

I couldn't care less about your mother in the context of the game. I'm sorry you're having RL issues, but that doesn't change your alignment or mine. And your vote on me is the definition of OMGUS. Town Matt doesn't pull this crap. You have given literally no reason for me being scum. "Tantrum"? What, where, and how would that ever make me scum? You're the one throwing a hissy fit over a vote on you, and instead of trying to go through it with me, you pitched a fit and voted me in turn. If anything, you are throwing a couple of posts wildly out of proportion, trying to scavenge for anything you can pass off as scum intent where there is visibly none. You're a poor ripoff of Fate flinging crap at people he knows aren't scum.

Furthermore, you're accusing me of confirmation bias--as scum? What? How can I have confirmation bias about calling you scum if you are Town and I'm scum? That doesn't make any sense.

We can stand here all day calling each other stupid if that's what you're interested in, but again, no alignment change there.


No, I don't have a read on Zdenek yet.

I don't have a read on someone

with two pseudo-votes on him

oh my Satan Tierce must be scum.

Yeah, stretch more. And Zdenek knows very well why I made that post.

[MattP]

1) I am not bringing RL issues into the game so don't apologize

2) You CAN conf bias as scum in that anything I say will suddenly be scummy

3) Your behavior towards Zdenek was scummy and IDGAF how Zdenek feels about it

[MattP]

I'm obviously in a bad mood, so I will try to be rational for a second and then just come back later

I feel that your behavior regarding Zdenek is scummy, even if it is only two votes because it was two successive votes and you were the next poster. I think that you not having a read in any form is safe and weird, and your commenting looks convenient given the time you gave it. That is all.

[Zdenek]

Hey Zdenek, read on Tierce, go

I'm giving this read time to develop because of events in on going games that I can't discuss. Her immediate accusation that I'm tunneling is annoying, but I can understand why she would say it.

[MattP]

And ok, from an outside perspective looking at my last few posts I do think I've been very sloppy. I'm going to ask that they are disregarded because I've been in an argument all day with my family and have been trying to find an alternative of where to stay until I can return to college, so everything I've been posting today has been fueled by that conflict. I'm sorry for lashing out and it was completely unprecedented, specifically where I said you were having a tantrum and were posting less-than-intelligent because obviously I've been doing that

[Tierce]

I'm obviously in a bad mood, so I will try to be rational for a second and then just come back later

I feel that your behavior regarding Zdenek is scummy, even if it is only two votes because it was two successive votes and you were the next poster. I think that you not having a read in any form is safe and weird, and your commenting looks convenient given the time you gave it. That is all.

I don't care. I don't have to give a read on a player just because two others have voted him. If I had a read, I would have shared it. I'm not going to fabricate a read for anyone's convenience.

The tunneling comment was possibly out of line because it can't really be explained at present. Suffice to say that both Zdenek and I understand where it's coming from.

You aren't really

doing

anything (or weren't before voting me). Waiting for charter doesn't mean you can't pay attention to anything else. For Town Matt, it makes no sense to focus on a player that will only be available days after the game has started, when he could be putting pressure on people who

are

in the thread nad getting reads out of the reactions to it. The fact that you waited until you were called out on it, the fact that you waited until

page 6

, all the while claiming some vague interest on someone who was not accessible to play, does not mesh with your views on Town scumhunting. THAT is why your behavior rings alarm bells. Waiting for page 6 and three days and a half into the game is

not

attacking someone before most players can get in their groove. You know perfectly well what I'm talking about, and that is why I think you are scum.

Apologies accepted for the lashing out bit, but there's no way I'm disregarding the posts themselves. I hope things get settled quickly, I know how distressing housing and family can be.

[Tierce]

Scumhunting depends on a few key ideas. If you agree with these things you MAY find that your scumhunting improves. I don't know if my scumhunting strategies are great but I find that about half of the time I hit scum, and the half of the time I don't about 3/4 of those times I'll realize pretty quickly I hit town

First: Early game is the most important portion of the game for finding scum

• If every player went into a round and mutually agreed to skip RVS and have some way of doing it effectively it would be ideal. What I mean to say is that a player should call another player scum for their first one or two posts and VEHEMENTLY push them. The pusher should ideally be someone that other players trust so that they will follow along and form an immediate wagon with little to no information. The absolute key to this is to force a situation between you and the player you are attacking where you are both online at the same time and move into a full-fledged argument that persists until you have reached an incredibly heated situation. At this point you stop posting altogether for 24 hours.
  
  At this point if any other players in the game posts RVS material or something unrelated to the feud they are making a deliberate choice to ignore it, a deliberate choice to not form an opinion or push for or against the wagon. Since no scum would feasibly do this unless they are moronic, and town should genuinely feel compelled to respond to the situation, all players in the game will respond to the situation.
  
  This is where you catch scum. This should hopefully, if you did a good job, be a point in the game where players are just beginning to post so they won't be "on a roll". All players, or at least good ones, get on a roll. This is to say, as their post counts in the thread increase they become better at looking the part of town. It is important to remember that this theory is not correlated to time. As in, if a player's first post is on page 10 of the game and another's first post is on page 2, that makes no difference. They both start their "mojo" at the point of their first post. The better the player, the less time it takes them to get on a roll. Some players can start looking town immediately. Early game is necessary to catch more novice scum.
  
  RVS is bad because it's a chance for players to joke around and this helps them get on a roll so that once out of RVS when they MUST be serious they already know how to fake being town for that game. Having an RVS is anti-town. The first step to being a good player is to not have RVS, not ever joke around, and push the game into a non-RVS mode. If you don't feel capable of being the person to do that, then shut up. Don't say anything until someone more capable does it. Once out of RVS start talking, because if you're town you should have no issue going immediately into town mode because for you there is no "town mode".
  
  
  Therefore, if you are town and do not feel good enough to push the game out of RVS in the way I am saying (which is to push the game into a situation where players MUST respond to a wagon, then don't bother posting until someone else has done it
  
  
  This creates a sort of issue. If this is the case and becomes site meta, then noone will talk in RVS because they'll all be waiting for end of RVS or for someone to start a wagon against, which means noone will talk. This isn't an issue yet, so whatever. There are plenty of people more than happy to yap their heads off and RVS so as long as that exists this plan works dandy.

[snip]

It's so blatantly

not this

. Not his attack on me, not his behavior toward charter, not his brief attack on quadz. MattP is very clearly disregarding his own Town meta and methodology, and even though today's posts may be explained by a complicated family situation, the ones before today cannot. He's scum.

[MattP]

You seriously don't think if I'm so cognizant of my playstyle that I wouldn't mock it as scum, at least to SOME degree, especially if I made it public knowledge?

[Tierce]

I think lack of emulating that specific form of scumhunting is far more likely to come from you as scum. As Town, you'd be naturally doing it, because you trust your methods to work. Avoiding that method makes no sense as Town and creates handily WIFOM for scum Matt.

[MattP]

But you're wrong, I did choose an early target and I had full intent to tunnel them and I strongly think they're scum. They stopped posting, and after two days I finally called them out passively on it. Then they claimed it would be another two days so I did move to you for your post on Zdenek. I pointed this out prior to you calling me out.

[Tierce]

No, you asked me for a read on Zdenek. This is hardly "moving to me", this is merely studying an option. You moved to me after I voted you and explained my scumread on you.

I still think you re blowing things out of proportion and that your behavior does not match what I expect and what I have seen from games where you are Town. There's no point in arguing this with you, as neither of us will "convince" the other that they are scum, but I frankly think you don't even believe I'm scum right now. And yes, I'm BoPing you--I expect far more capable behavior from you than the weak stuff you have been trying to pass off as a read on me.