This is going to be one weird game. I have no idea what I'm doing, or what strategy I should be using.
Mini 14 ~ Mafia Holographica (Game Over!)
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Feysal Mafia Scum
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Move(UP);
This is going to be one weird game. I have no idea what I'm doing, or what strategy I should be using.-
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Okay, this is going to get confusing real quick.
I understand why the rules were changed, making actions resolve at a specific time and order, but it has the effect that players can react to actions before they happen, since they are posted in thread. If you're allowed to cancel actions it gets even stranger, with players reacting to actions that never happen at all. So I have to ask, is there such a thing as canceling an action?
I also expect the action resolution order to bring about some unexpected results. Imagine a player leaving a region and another player entering it some time later. The player leaving the region then decides to leave behind a mine, long after he decided to leave the area.
My common sense would say that actions should be final when posted, and they should be resolved in the order they were posted.
Also, as pretty as the picture of the VR Arena was, those colored tokens for the players confuse the hell out of me. So:
vezokpiraka chesskid3 Fate, inHimshallibe, VasudeVa curiouskarmadog (no one) Feysal, Gammagooey Furcolow, Plum TheButtonmen VP Baltar
I'd have loved to make this a table with fixed cell sizes and a background image, but the BBCodes for tables are regrettably unflexible in that sort of thing. Very crude too, add any line breaks within the code and you get extra space above the table.-
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Thanks, though you do realize we're all neutral in the demo phase?Fate #50 wrote:Feysal is obvtown. Vi Id prefer that method with the pretty picture just for ambiance
I'll probably keep my own notes on the side, so there is no need to make a separate table on my account. It looks crude anyway.-
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When I sent my starting position, I gave it as 2nd row, 3rd column. Later I regretted it, and thought something like StartPosition(1, 2); would've been more appropriate. Indices beginning from 0 of course.-
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I made the table based on the picture, so it should be correct.
One observation I've made about the rules is that since moves resolve last, there will be no dodging of attacks in this game. Whereever players are after actions are resolved, there they will remain for the next 24 hours. That means everyone is currently at their starting positions, including those who have posted move commands. Only at resolve time will players change areas.
This has the effect that if you've moved already, you can later decide to shoot, and this will happen from your old position, not from wherever you were moving to. I fully expect to see confusion result from this.
I have no idea how we're supposed to be scumhunting in this setup, without any votes. Possibly the only things we can use are special abilities and game mechanics to identify scum, otherwise this will turn into a free-for-all.-
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Oh, and I'm going to say this now, for the sake of everyone's sanity we probably should keep a list of where everyone is and what actions they have posted. This is only the third page of the demo, and if we've already lost track of who is going where and shooting in which direction, we have to be prepared when the actual game starts.-
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The problem with
Code: Select all
NW N NE W C E SW S SE
is that these would be directions in addition to region names. Of course they are not ambiguous. If you are at SE and move north, you arrive at E. However, it could still lead to some confusion, since people could forget where others are and interpret their moves incorrectly.
The programmer in me would like
Code: Select all
A1 A2 A3 B1 B2 B3 C1 C2 C3
but I understand if this would confuse other players, possibly even more than the first option.
Now that I've seen what the rules are, this feels more like a mafia mutation than a regular mafia game. I don't know how well you could scumhunt in this setup, I have some ideas but I think that the mafia would probably overpower the town with their factional kill before the town figured out a good strategy. The mish-mash version might suit this setup better, since with known teams, both sides could really get into the strategy side of the battle. I could still play this as either mafia or mish-mash, the mafia version would be hard but I would probably enjoy the challenge.
Oh, and
>DataMineT(1);
>ModSpecs(Va);
>Move(A2);
Better clear out, you don't want to be there when the mine goes off. I did not have to post that in public you know, but this being the demo phase...-
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First actual game post coming up.
I pretty much expected to see some sort of lunacy from you, but having you take a shot at me before I've posted once really exceeds my expectations.Furcolow #139 wrote:plasma pistol: Feysal
move: east
I too had 15 HP in the demo, and I now have 10. Why am I revealing that? Because Furcolow shot at me, and at maximum damage the PlasmaPistol causes 3 damage according to the sample town PM. When my HP is reduced to 70% in the next summary post from Vi, then anyone with basic math skills realizes that if 3 HP corresponds to 30%, then my max HP must be 10. This also applies to everyone else who has taken damage. The max HP of curiouskarmadog and vezokpiraka will become public knowledge within a few hours. Our max HP is a secret we cannot possibly keep for very long.TheButtonmen #155 wrote:Do all players start with the same hp?
Whatever we plan, you can count on my cooperation. I'm definitely in favor of banning random shooting, though I would not automatically support the killing of someone who refused to honor the plan, I don't want that becoming a mislynch automaton for the scum. There may yet arise a situation where having a loose cannon is more hazardous to the scum than to the town. Right now however, that is not the case. The random shootings must cease.TheButtonmen #168 wrote:Please include your thoughts on banning nonapproved shooting, the creation of a lynch cycle and your willingness to assist in the execution of any players who violate any rules we should decide on.
I agree with establishing a lynch cycle to counter the factional kill. Much better than having a massive shootout.
If indeed he turned out to be scum, that would go a long way into clearing you, but not 100%. Otherwise, this 50% chance of being scum is so horribly bad that if I did not know you were capable of such lapses of common sense, I'd be calling for your death right about now. As it is, I rather agree with the popular feeling that you are town. But, you need to stop this nonsense.chesskid3 #172 wrote:I think based on the initial setup CKD has ~ 50% shot of being scum, and killing him will also almost 100% clear me if he flips scum.
Therefore I'm going to hunt him down and kill him.
To you, Fate, chesskid3 and Furcolow, and everyone else who thinks this is a good idea: it is not. Suppose we do go out there and start shooting each other silly? Then what? Everyone will be screaming OMGUS at each other, chaos reigns supreme, and when the time is right, we're going to have something like this happening:VasudeVa #223 wrote:I'm against all this chatty nonsense. I think that the best way to figure out people's alignments is to get out there and let people shoot the fuck out of each other.
ScumPlayerA: TriAttack(TownPlayerA, TownPlayerB, TownPlayerC)
Vi: TownPlayerA, TownPlayerB and TownPlayerC are dead. Scum wins!
We know there are attacks that can affect multiple targets, but their damage is also low. If we start reducing town players HP, the low damage from such weapons will cease to be a hindrance, and we're really begging to have the scum exploit that.
On other things, VP Baltar's plan of organizing us has some merit, but it also restricts us from using the features of this setup. For one: there will be random items dropping somewhere on the game grid, and the first person there will get to pick it up. This will cause some confusion when people race for items, though we may be able to control that by deciding as a group who gets which item. If some player already has several modules, it would be better to let someone else get the chance for one. If one player starts hoarding items, then either that player is scum (bad for town), or is killed by scum and the items are lost (bad for town).
Another problem is mines. I had a timed mine in the demo, and though I gave a warning when I used it, I did not have to. Mines are offensive abilities, but they can be used by PM. If we stick to certain regions, sooner or later someone is going to turn that region into a deathtrap, and the more players there are in the space when the mine activates, the greater the damage.
Finally, some abilities can only be used on other players in the same region. One such ability is ModSpecs, which I tried out in the demo. It is basically an investigative module, and there may be others like it. Limiting our movement would also limit the use of such abilities.
Finally, I expect that we're going to get confused at some point about who has done what and when. I intend to keep a log, at least until I see how detailed Vi's in-game reports are. Here is what has been done so far:
By the way, I think vezokpiraka's ability clearly favors the town, and it is easily verified by anyone who has used a skill. I vote he should keep it on, and if Fate still wants him dead, he can go to hell. I don't agree with anything he has said or done this game, not with taking pot shots before we have any reads, not with policy lynching vezokpiraka, and certainly not with killing Plum just because she has a cloak and is using it.-
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At least some of this information should be shared, since it affects our plans. First, some more about mines.VasudeVa #246 wrote:Which breangs me to: What say you people of a demo weapons claim? More info is always better.
Both times when mines were used in the demo phase, it made a clicking sound, so we will know if something is going to happen. Unfortunately we won't know when, because mines are timed (at least mine was). I set mine to be dormant for 1 cycle of 24 hours, and then detonate. The scum could set mines for much longer times than that, and with people moving in and out of the region where the mine was placed, it would not be obvious who had laid the mine. Simply looking for someone bolting out of a region after a clicking sound will not be enough to prove that someone set the mine. The actual scum could stick around for days, maybe even stay to suffer the effects for WIFOM.
Fortunately, mines are one-shot. You use it, you lose it, though you may be able to find another. What else would the item drops be if not ability modules?
By the way, it occurred to me that in the sample scum PM, it was said that you cannot pick up or equip special abilities when you hold the Gamma Pulse. Correct me if I'm wrong, but does this not mean that vezokpiraka can be confirmed town by confirming his special ability, since scum could not have one? The possession of special abilities could yet become an important factor in ruling out potential scum.
Now, to VP's plan. I don't think it can stop factional kills, but it can delay them. The scum do not have to use their skill once every seven days, they can wait for a day or two for people to move and then take the shot. But, even this delay would be worth it, so I say we should try it out. We can also keep our more trusted players safe from factional kills, by systematically avoiding them being on the same row or column as suspect players.
As for the problem with mines, we don't have to stick to the same diagonal all the time. Using a A3, B1, C2 pattern has the same effect as A1, B2, C3 - no two groups are on the same row or column. If we do this and make it random, planning mine attacks will become impossible, and there is no more than a 33% chance of anyone being in the region when they explode. If the mine goes off while people are scattered and moving around, odds are that only one or two people take damage, instead of a group of four.
So now, how shall we organize? I'd like to point out that those of us who have taken damage are the most likely to die from the factional kill. The average HP of living players is likely to exceed our current HP.-
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If I understood right, the Gamma Pulse is armed and ready to fire. I would be surprised if it was not fired tonight, and it is too late to avoid that.Plum #285 wrote:Wait, we're going to be in our designated squares for the entire phase?
After it is fired, we're going to have seven day cycles until it can be fired again, and during that time I'd be pleased with us all moving around some. I have an idea I'm working on... vezokpiraka, does your special ability decrease the recharge time of abilities other than weapons?-
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Furcolow... you are an idiot, so I'll entertain the thought that you might actually believe you can scumhunt by shooting at random people and provoking them to shoot back. This is not going to work. Firstly, because you just gave away your whole plan, giving any scum free rain to shoot back at you. Secondly, because you are not in fact looking for scum with this test, you are testing whether your targets have more sense and self control than you. And we already know the answer to that question, don't we, so there is really no point in you running around shooting at people. Is there?Furcolow #286 wrote:I was doing it to get the "your base is under attack" message to Feysal, basically. I wanted to see if he would attack me, and I believe if he was actually town he would, and he didn't, so he is on top of my scum list.
Simply put:knock that shit off.
Spoiler: Actions cycle 1-
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Why?Furcolow #297 wrote:You are to uncloak, and act protown, or be put on a short leash of fiery plasma
If Plum uncloaks and reveals her position, then what good will her cloak ability do? If she is town, her cloak is an invaluable advantage to the town, since it essentially makes her immune to anything the scum might do to her. You want her to give that up, why? If she does not, you would hunt her down and kill her. If she does uncloak, the scum are sure to understand the value of her ability and kill her. I see this as a very poor plan.
However, on the subject of Plum, I wonder if her cloak has some limitations? If she were to use a weapon, that would partly reveal her location as somewhere where that shot was possible. Likewise, any movement from her would limit the possibilities for where she can be.
I bet that for every game where you caught scum in LYLO there are several where you did not. As long as the accuracy of your scumreads is comparable to that of a blind hen, you have no credibility, and in the rare cases where you have correctly identified scum, you can't get anyone to believe you. In the game you mentioned, did you actually manage to convince anyone that you had found the scum? Even one of them? If not, it was useless.Furcolow #298 wrote:how about you go read eusurioseptus's game in which i caught both scum in a 5 player lylo
not like you actually read anything, anyways
i wish i didn't have a town read on you-
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There is something I've been thinking about the factional Gamma Pulse. It is powered by town HP, right? Its maximum damage is the average HP of all players, rounded down. That gives us the possibility of manipulating the average HP on purpose, to make certain players safe from this kill, since their current HP is above average. If we were to keep injured players in one corner, that would mean that the Gamma Pulse was never powerful enough to kill any of the uninjured players. Using this in combination with VP's plan, we might be able to prevent deaths from the Gamma Pulse completely.
Spoiler: Actions cycle 1-
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Oh, and I've wondered if I should say this, but if anyone up there with vezokpiraka can do something to shield him, now would be an excellent time. From a game mechanics point of view, he should be the number one choice for the scum to target, tonight.-
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Not much time left, I guess I'll go where VP's plan said I should go.
>Move(C2);-
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Checked your ISO... why yes, so you did. I did not quite get the idea until VP explained it in more length, and he was the one who designated who should go where. If we can actually get that to happen.-
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With that, the current and maximum HP of all injured players becomes common knowledge. Looks like we have an anomaly too... chesskid3 took 5 points of damage, but ended up at 60%. The percentages are accurate to 5%, so that puts him at 12 HP maximum. Interesting.
The average HP of the town seems to be 8, possibly more if there are any other players with higher maximum HP and no injuries. That is how much damage the Gamma Pulse will do, too. Everyone injured is potentially at risk. Damn, had we played this smarter, we would stand a far better chance of evading death from scum actions.
If it was not clear yet,there must be no more unauthorized shooting!
NameMax HPHPchesskid3 12 7 curiouskarmadog 10 5 Fate 10 8 Feysal 10 7 Furcolow ? 100% Gammagooey ? 100% inHimshallibe ? 100% Plum ? 100% TheButtonmen 10 8 VasudeVa ? 100% vezokpiraka 10 3 VP Baltar 10 8
The attack in the A1 region was unexpected. Since it was unannounced in thread, the scum motivation of it is clear. Did anyone have an ability in the demo that could've caused this? 2 points of damage to everyone in an area? If this was an offensive ability, we may have a way of finding out who did it, by process of elimination.
One thing is this: if it was an offensive ability, whoever did this could not have used another offensive ability last cycle. That would rule out Fate, who would otherwise look suspicious for being the only player to leave that area. Secondly, if this was an ability with a long recharge time, then it could be possible to demand possible suspects to use another offensive ability today, to prove they are not in recharge lock. With damage reduced to minimum of course. Better yet, we could have a possible investigator check the players for someone who might've used the ability that did this.
Currently the two players I suspect for this are TheButtonmen and VP Baltar, based on the assumption that this ability was used locally. With the damage that low, scum could do it for the WIFOM. If the attack could be fired from a distance, several others could be responsible.-
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I find it a bit odd that you'd expect scum reads after only one cycle of 24 hours. I have some preliminary reads, but nothing very strong to go on.Gammagooey #332 wrote:Dear Feysal: Although your speculation may be a little helpful, it's pretty much all you've done thus far in-game. 2 top scum reads please.
I'd have said Fate before the explosion, but since he used an offensive ability last cycle, he should not have been able to cause the explosion. The way he tried to move out of the area may look odd, but he took damage anyway. This does not clear him of course, but it is not making him look more guilty either.
CKD is a possibility, given what he has done so far. Criticizing VP's plan while not offering solutions or alternatives, attacking chesskid3 when it should've been clear how unwise this was, and then this business about a wager on whether he is town. If he is town, this is not convincing me of that.
I could try to add another suspect for you, but if I did that, I'd be doing that just to satisfy your question. So, I'll leave it at this. CKD is pretty much what I've got. I'll have to look at VasudeVa and inHimshallibe, I'm not getting much of a read on either, and one of them could turn out to be scum.
And by the way... is Plum really being suspected only because she is cloaked? What kind of reason is that?
Exactly like you said. NW is A1, C is B2, SE is C3. I guess we can use both side by side.VasudeVa #344 wrote:I vote that we use the N/NW/C/E etc. version. When you guys are using A1, C2 version, do you guys mean that Letters are rows and Columns are numbers or vice versa?
With chesskid3's max HP, I did not, I just noted the anomaly. Now he seems to be claiming he has a shield active, that may have absorbed the 1 HP. If true, then everyone injured so far has 10 HP max, and the average current HP is about 7,9. That is rounded down for the Gamma Pulse, so that only does 7 damage now if I got this right.VasudeVa #344 wrote:I've studied Vi's ISO and it wasn't the tri attack Furco and VP used.
Feysal, have you considered shields in your calculations?
As for the explosion in A1 (NW), with three of the people reduced to 80%, it was clear they all had 10 HP max and had taken 2 HP of damage. vezokpiraka dropping to 30% also added up, so if any of them had shields, they don't seem to have been effective against the explosion. I don't know what could've done this, but it was no mine, since those could not have been used so quickly, and they would've caused more damage. An offensive ability, used from the same region or from some linear direction seems more likely.
This won't work, since you cannot select to use a weapon after moving. If you want to do this, you should use the weapon next cycle. We'll see what Vi says.VasudeVa #344 wrote:I am going to check for invisi Plum now. I have a weapon that can disable that supports or. If she is indeed where I think she is(SW), then she'll appear. If she's not there, I won't hit anybody anyway.
Move: West
Then, once at NW I will...
Electromagnetic Pulse: South-
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This is very interesting, but there are important details I'd like to have confirmed.Gammagooey #368 wrote:So I hinted at this earlier today but I'm pretty sure I know what type of weapon hit the northwest sector, because the plasma burst I fired at the northeast does the same amount of damage (2 hp to each person in a region). If I'm right then the flavor should confirm it by having the same type of explosion, and it ALSO means that only three people could have taken that shot- inhims, VV, and Plum. VV looks town and either him or inhims having an ability that DIDN'T remove him from the map but let's him shoot in silence seemed much less likely than Plum just shooting at them.
1. Plasma Burst can only be used from an adjacent region (meaning it could only have been fired by VasudeVa, inHimshallibe, or possibly Plum, and if it was Plum, we know she had to be in A2 or B1).
2. Plasma Burst cannot normally be used by PM (if true, then it could not have been VasudeVa or inHimshallibe, and it would have to be Plum, and this means she can move and use weapons by PM while cloaked).
3. How long is the recharge time of this weapon (if it is longer than 2 days, then VasudeVa and inHimshallibe can easily prove they did not do it by firing another weapon today, in a safe direction or with damage set to zero).
If Plum was behind this, we should be able to prove that by using the game rules, and knowing where the weapon can be fired would give us a fix on where she may have been yesterday. Trust is a wonderful thing, but I'd love to have proof.
Where do you get the idea moves could be secret? I was not at all certain Plum could move or do anything without revealing her location. The game rules clearly say movement and offensive module usage have to be posted in thread.VP Baltar #370 wrote:New rule: no more secret moves.-
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Good to know. The short cooldown means there is no point in any further testing, but it looks fairly certain this was done by Plum.Gammagooey #377 wrote:1 and 2 are correct.
It has a 1 day cooldown though.
I was hoping for Plum to be on the town side, and for town to have such a cloak would've been pretty overpowered. I considered the possibility that she might have to post her moves and actions in public, but this would only give limited information where she was at any time. Like, if she moved west, we would know she was not in column 3, but no more accurately than that.Gammagooey #377 wrote:As for secret moves- a cloak that doesn't let you move around or shoot is in fact a pretty shitty cloak.
I guess we hunt her down next. If she was at A2 or B1 yesterday, she could be anywhere on the A3-C1 diagonal, or northwest of that. I'm actually hoping for VasudeVa's Electromagnetic Pulse to fire today, since the center would be the most likely place for Plum to be.
Come to think of it, is there any difference between VasudeVa's Electromagnetic Pulse and vezokpiraka's EMP? Together they should have no problem finding Plum, if they can aim their weapons in a certain direction.
Spoiler: Actions cycle 1 FINAL
Spoiler: Actions cycle 2-
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Since the explosion apparently had no cooldown (one day has passed already), firing our weapons now really does nothing useful, but since I suggested it, here goes.
>TriAttack(chesskid3, 0, Fate, 0, VasudeVa, 0);
And I've still got one move before reaching my assigned space.
>Move(C3);
We'll see how eager anyone else is grouping up after the explosion in the top left corner. It would not surprise me if Plum did it again to another collection of players tonight.
Oh, and I will definitely try to exploit the game mechanics any way I can. If I manage to find a way to break the game, I'll share it, but you won't be seeing me wanting to actually do it. In that regard I'm a mathematician... I'm satisfied if a solution exists, while every other type of scientist wants to put it into practice.
Actions cycle 1 FINAL
Spoiler: Actions cycle 2-
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Oops, forgot Fate's action. Oh well, it was not the final list anyway.-
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It means what it says. If I manage to find a breaking strategy, I will share it, but I won't want to actually put it into practice. I did this in another game I could point to... I realized that a strange rule allowed the town to turn everyone they found suspect into a neutral survivor, which would've allowed us to neutralize enemies with no fear of mislynch. No one wanted to try it, and neither did I. However... even from a breaking strategy we might figure out something we actually could use.
This is all academic of course, since there is no evidence a breaking strategy would even exist.-
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Oh, and by the way... love the town mathematician stuff.-
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No scum action tonight. Still no Gamma Pulse. Perhaps they need to spend seven days charging it, before they can actually use it? That would mean we have a few days until we need to start worrying about that, though better safe than sorry.
No one was injured this cycle. Except Plum, at 90%, seems to have taken 1 HP of damage. Where did that come from?
1. Plum may have been in A3 and taken 1 HP of damage, and somehow absorbed the rest.
2. vezokpiraka appears to have hit something. His EMP was supposed to cause 1 HP of damage, right? But why did it not cause damage when it hit Gammagooey?
I wonder if we can aim other weapons in directions instead of specific players. It could be a good time to concentrate fire toward A3 or adjacent areas, since Plum should be there, unless she took damage from something we don't even know of. I'd like to be able to rule out if she was in A1... vezokpiraka, does it say in the description of the EMP if it could hit something in the region it is fired in? Oh, and while we're at it... is there any difference between your and VasudeVa's abilities? Both shared the same flavor at least.
Oh, and we have a module in B3. Will that be taken by CKD or Gammagooey who are in the region, or is there some other way we want to settle this? No one can beat them to the module if they want to take it. If I had to pick which one gets it, I'd let Gammagooey have it, never mind what he thinks of me.
Is there any reason someone would not want to pick up an item? If it was a special ability, then scum would have to discard their factional weapon to pick it up. Was there some kind of limit on how many modules you could carry?-
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Wait, how did chesskid3 lose his shield? VasudeVa's EMP was not supposed to have hit anything.
And now we have Plum claiming not to have caused the blast in A1. She would deny it of course if she were scum... but for the sake of argument, is there any other explanation we might have overlooked? That blast had the same flavor as Gammagooey's, and we'd have to take his word that it cannot be used by PM. I know mines can, which makes sense, but all other weapons I know of are public. That would point to Plum, and her presence close to the blast, as evidenced by the damage she took, is even more of a strange coincidence. If it is a coincidence, that is.-
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Feysal Mafia Scum
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Opinions should be offered without asking, not forcibly extracted by means of a red-hot poker. If you think something is important, comment on it. Nothing is stopping you.-
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Feysal Mafia Scum
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Actually, you shot south and then moved to A1 (NW), in that order. That is the order in which actions are resolved. No one was telling not to do what you wanted, we were telling you it was impossible according to the game rules.VasudeVa #452 wrote:All you haters who kept telling me I couldn't do what I wanted to do. HAH. I sucessfully went to NW and shot down to south. SUCK ON THAT.
Interesting. chesskid3 was south of you, and according to his claim he would've had a shield to disable. You were east of vezokpiraka, and he apparently hit something, so you apparently lost your shield because of his shot. If the loud pop was the shield falling down, then would the loud pop when targeting Gammagooey indicate he had a shield too?VasudeVa #452 wrote:Although I didn't hit anything. And something disabled my shield. I didn't take any damage though.
I think we need to have a discussion about mass claiming our abilities, or at least part of them. So far we've caused plenty of damage and disabled two shields apparently, and we have no proof any of this has affected scum. The advantage of mass claiming would be that we can start planning actions as a group, and avoid accidents such as VasudeVa losing his shield. If we can get the scum to false claim, we also may be able to catch them lying later. The obvious disadvantage is that the scum can begin to target players with important abilities, so I suppose at least some abilities should not be claimed. Any other thoughts?
I asked before if there was any difference between your and vezokpiraka's abilities. He said his EMP could cause 1 HP of damage and disable shields. He mentioned nothing about cloaks. Is there any mention that your Electromagnetic Pulse is any different? Is it supposed to disable cloaks as well?VasudeVa #454 wrote:Actually, wait. I might have hit Plum. My EMP deals 1 damage. Why isn't the cloak disabled then?
Neither. A3 is NE. If Furcolow intended to shoot at SW, he should have used C1, or simply shot west.VasudeVa #454 wrote:And where the fuck is A3? Is it SW or SE?
Meanwhile, I have a simple test to make. TriAttack has a cooldown of 2 days, so I should not be able to use it today, unless vezokpiraka's special ability has increased my recharge speed. Let's see if anything happens.
>TriAttack(inHimshallibe, 0, Gammagooey, 0, curiouskarmadog, 0);
Fate was the only one to use an attack both cycles, and his second may have failed because its target was not nearby. This action should only fail if I'm in cooldown.
Actions cycle 1 FINAL
Spoiler: Actions cycle 2 FINAL
Spoiler: Actions cycle 3-
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Feysal Mafia Scum
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About Plum - would we be able to test her claim of being unable to use weapons while cloaked?
If she were to do something like fire a gun set to zero damage due north, what would happen? Would this cause her to immediately uncloak? Would it result in a modkill? I already made an action which may be invalid, since I've had no indication that my TriAttack was ready to fire so soon, but I can at least say I tried it in good faith, since there is a chance it would work.
VasudeVa went to A1 to fire his EMP south along column 1.-
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Why don't you share how you arrived at this conclusion? Plum could be at A3 for all I know, or could have been there and moved away, but I don't see why she would have to be there.Gammagooey #464 wrote:You guys.
Plum's in A3. Process of elimination.
If Plum started from A2, and was going to B3 like you said she should, then it makes perfect sense for her to be in A3.VP Baltar #465 wrote:There you go. She needs to explain why she's in A3 or die. I see no legitimate reason to be hanging up there.
You know what my problem with the Plum case is? I saw no reason why she should be scum early on, in fact she seemed rather townish to me. This whole case started from one thing only, the fact that she is cloaked. I can sort of see why Fate would jump at that, and to your credit you did not jump on board then. It was not until the explosion in A1 that it seemed likely she would be scum, and it was far from obvious to me that Plum was responsible for it. You suspected Plum immediately after the explosion, without even exploring other possibilities first. Why? Just now, you accepted Gammagooey's unexplained process of elimination that Plum had to be in A3. Why?
Also, remember it was Fate who pointed out Plum being cloaked and started the whole uncloak or else train? And now you say Fate and Plum are scum together because Fate is reacting to the pressure on Plum, when it was Fate who started that push and has kept it up consistently? If you think they are bussing right off the bat, say so, but it makes very little sense to me.
I'm not at all certain of Fate being scum, and I don't think he is wrong to have doubts about you. I have them too. Fate may be wrong to act on them though.
Rolefishing? I suggested discussion on mass claiming, since we are obviously causing accidental damage with our abilities. More discussion does not scum make. And you say you are serious? So am I. I will not change my playstyle just to please you. I find it hard to get accurate reads early in game, and this game is only 60 hours old. Instead, I'm trying to make sense of the mechanics and using them as my scum hunting tools. If you don't like it, that's your problem.Gammagooey #467 wrote:Feysal, stop rolefishing and start scumhunting. I am deadly serious about this. The ONLY way I would want a massclaim is if it was just limited to the three people that could have shot the northwest, but then that really isn't a massclaim at all.-
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Easy. I don't think you hit chesskid3. Remember this?VasudeVa #471 wrote:Explain this then:
1. chesskid did not lose his shield. Nor did he get any damage. If I shot south from my North position, then I would have hit chesskid.
2. It was clear in Vi's post that I did not hit chesskid at all. It seems to vaguely hint that I might have hit Plum though as per the following quote:
>VasudeVa fires a quick blast south! It doesn't seem to have hit anything.
What makes you think I hit chesskid then?
I suppose when you fire a weapon in a general direction, there is no guarantee of hitting anyone. chesskid3, Furcolow and me were all south of you, you could've hit any one of us, so there would have to be some random factor involved. It is possible you could've hit Plum though, and that is interesting.Feysal #439 wrote:Wait, how did chesskid3 lose his shield? VasudeVa's EMP was not supposed to have hit anything.
It could be a special ability, like you said. That would be interesting, since scum should not be able to have those if they want to keep their factional weapon. So, if we can prove Plum is using a special ability, that would be a strong indication of her being town.VasudeVa #471 wrote:I don't think so. Mine is named ElectroMagnetic Pulse, as it seems to be the case for vezok. Deals 1 damage, disables shields and supports. I was assuming that Plum's cloak is a Support ability of somesort. If I did hit her and caused the 1 damage she has, but she's still cloaked then I'm not sure anymore. I'll ask Vi.
Here is how we could do it. All we need to know is whether Plum was hit by your EMP. If she was and remains cloaked, then the cloak could not have been a support ability. Logically, if Plum uncloaks and reveals her position is somewhere on column 2, then she should be town.
Further, if my shot today succeeds, that will confirm vezokpiraka's special ability, confirming him town. He can then confirm your account of how the EMP works, and we can be sure that Plum's cloak is a special ability. That would rule out two suspects by tomorrow... not bad for mere mechanics and setup discussion, if it works that is.-
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That explosion should have caused 2 HP of damage, and Plum only took 1.
Also, could we maybe start asking questions first and shoot only if we're unhappy with the responses? I know, we're not seeing who else could've caused the explosion in A1, I don't either, but as long as Plum has a chance of being town and there is a way to test that without shooting her full of holes, I'd prefer waiting for 24 hours to give her a chance.-
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In the sample mafia role PM, under the description of the Gamma Pulse, it is said that "you may not pick up or equip special abilities while you hold this ability". The way I understood this, scum cannot even carry the Gamma Pulse if they want a special ability, so if Plum is using a special ability, she cannot have the Gamma Pulse. Now, it may be possible for scum to get a special ability at the start by random, but they could still not use it without dropping the Gamma Pulse. And given how great that weapon is, causing massive damage and being able to fire secretly, I don't see why any scum would throw it away willingly.VP Baltar #479 wrote:I'm not following here. Even if you confirm her cloak is a special ability, the Gamma Ray has not been fired yet. Isn't the point that scum can only use one special ability at a time? Or am I missing something? How does this eliminate Plum from the scum list?-
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See, I don't think this is how it works. The Gamma Pulse is a factional weapon, and I expect all scum members share access to it. If one of them were to drop it, the other scum would keep it, but the one player who dropped it would have lost it forever. If Plum had dropped it, how could she ever get it back?VP Baltar #482 wrote:What if another buddy is simply holding the Gamma Pulse at the moment? I agree that plum wouldn't drop it for cloaking...but I don't see why another buddy couldn't have it while she uses cloak.
First, and I said this already, I did not ask for a mass claim, I asked for discussion on mass claiming. If we keep playing solo and firing EMP's blindly, we're far more likely to rob other townies of beneficial abilities than hurting the scum. This discussion has to be had sooner or later, and unless we want to stop firing EMP's at every direction, sooner would be preferable.Gammagooey #483 wrote:Feysal you've asked about why I didn't take damage from vezok's EMP, for a massclaim, and although I'm pretty sure it actually isn't chesskid's not taking damage from VV COULD have been role stuffs. All of that is role related shenanigans that don't need to be talked about right now.
Second, the role shenanigans, as you call them, are directly related to finding out who was behind the explosion in A1. Here is how all these things are intertwined.
1. When vezokpiraka fired his EMP at you, there was a loud pop but no damage. When he fired east, there was also a loud pop, and VasudeVa lost his shield, taking no damage. My conclusion from this is that vezokpiraka hit VasudeVa, and the loud pop is related to the loss of an ability. In VasudeVa's case, his shield, in your case perhaps something else. My theory is that the EMP causes damage only if there is no shield or support ability it could cancel.
2. If vezokpiraka hit VasudeVa, he could not have hit Plum, and that rules out one possible way she could've been injured.
3. If Plum had been in A3, she should've taken 2 HP of damage, not 1. We have no explanation for how she could've resisted the 1 HP of damage, so this is a point against Plum having been in A3.
4. This leaves only one possible way Plum could have been injured, and that is the EMP fired by VasudeVa. If this is the case and we can confirm it by having Plum decloak somewhere on column 2, that rules her out as a suspect.
Given how many people speak of shooting at Plum, these role shenanigans need to be talked about right now. If they prove Plum innocent, we can save a townie with a powerful ability that could help us. Whether you have a pro-town read or not, you don't get to dictate when it is time to talk about something like this.
In any case, the ball is in Plum's court. If my theory is correct, she should be able to prove the nature of her ability by decloaking and revealing whether she took damage from VasudeVa's EMP.-
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I guess all I can do right now is return to C2. I double checked VP's plan, and that's where I should be, I went too far east.
>Move(C2);
No sign of Plum since the start of day. For her sake, she better uncloak this cycle. Missing one chance to do so is still credible, but missing it twice would require a real stretch of the imagination.-
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Okay, so my attack failed. TriAttack had not recharged. Question becomes, did vezokpiraka misunderstand how his special ability works?
So, we've got noises. I'd bet quite a bit that staying in A1 has become unhealthy. Safe areas to move to, if we want to reorganize, would be any areas where there was no one last cycle. C3 would be okay too, I tried to use an offensive action and failed, so I could not have used a mine there.
So, either take Fate's suggestion and hope inHimshallibe did not leave some sort of surprise in A3, or if we wanted to be sure everyone was safe, we could use A2, B1 and C3.
Plum took damage from chesskid3's whip, so that puts her into B2 last cycle. She is now uncloaked too. Are we satisfied, or do we still want her dead? It seems apparent that she had to have been hit by VasudeVa's weapon, and since that would have canceled support abilities, that means her cloak must be special. That would imply that she could not be scum.
Something I've wondered is whether anyone ended up with more modules than others. I've seen no evidence of anyone having more than two. So, assuming everyone has only two, if we wanted to make sure Plum was not the culprit for the A1 explosion, we could ask her to fire whatever weapon she has. It should be her only one, her other module having been taken up by the cloak. If she can thus prove she has a different weapon than the Plasma Burst, that should clear her further.-
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So, we have our first shootout, between VP Baltar and Fate. And VP Baltar is dying. Unless he is healed for at least 1 HP today, and again tomorrow to stop the Spark Sap, he is gone. By this point, I have no argument against Fate dying for this, the odds of scum between him and VP Baltar are good. I particularly don't like what Fate said about Plum still being scum, and uncloaking because "she had no choice", or about finishing off vezokpiraka.
I double checked Fate's actions. He has used, or tried to use, an offensive ability every cycle. First PlasmaWhip on vezokpiraka, then SparkSap on Plum, then SparkSap on VP Baltar, and now PlasmaWhip again on VP Baltar. Note that the SparkSap on Plum did not do anything, that action failed due to cooldown, just like mine. I wonder what the cooldown on the SparkSap is? If it is too long for Fate to use PlasmaWhip today, VP Baltar might not die yet. This may be too much to hope for though.
This means we still have no evidence of vezokpiraka's ability doing anything. So I'll ask, what is that ability of yours supposed to do? Check the wording from your role PM, and then explain it again, will you?
Given how Fate is goading chesskid3 to kill Plum, I think I'd prefer her invisible and moving about. What would be sweeter than an invisible player with a cop ability? Yes Fate, there are investigative modules, I had one in the demo. Now I wish it had been Plum to pick up that item in B3. Oh well, there is always next time, unless this game continues to implode. Average HP has dropped to 6,4. Way to go, at this rate the town will self-destruct without even needing help from the scum.VP Baltar #544 wrote:I don't think her uncloaking was bad regardless. Having hidden people creates too much wifom the scum can exploit.
This I agree on. The Furcolow I know is not this quiet, in fact he is quite the spammer.VP Baltar #544 wrote:Fucolow is being awfully quiet this game. I don't like that much. I'll be online the rest of the day to give me reads and things before I'm apparently dead.
Actions cycle 1 FINAL
Actions cycle 2 FINAL
Spoiler: Actions cycle 3 FINAL
Spoiler: Actions cycle 4-
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Feysal Mafia Scum
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Actually, Fate should not be able to shoot anyone tomorrow. He used the Plasma Whip, and it has a cooldown of 2 days. Unless vezokpiraka somehow reduces that to 1... I've seen no evidence in form of actions that his ability works, and that troubles me.VP Baltar #559 wrote:I still say kill Fate now for your own good because he's going to shoot someone else tomorrow now that I'm dead. He's a real threat to the town, regardless of alignment. The only way I would say hold off for my flip is if he publicly promises to do the same.-
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I have done this. I tried to use a weapon with a 2-day cooldown twice in succession, it failed, which is a point against vezokpiraka's ability working as advertised. Fate tried to use Spark Sap on Plum after using Plasma Whip on vezokpiraka, and the resulting flavor was exactly the same as my failure. There is also the theory that vezokpiraka's ability would only affect players in the same region, and we know Fate stepped out of that area. The only player who has stayed in that area all the time and used a weapon twice is vezokpiraka himself, and for all I know his EMP could have a 1-day cooldown even without the special ability. So yes, there is no evidence. Even if the EMP normally has a 2-day cooldown, only vezokpiraka himself has had this cooldown reduced.Gammagooey #562 wrote:I'm PRETTY FUCKING SURE there has been evidence that it works. Go reread the thread.
Actually you wouldn't even have to do that. Just go reread all of Vi's day end posts.
Perhaps VasudeVa could shed some light on this. Is the EMP supposed to have a 1-day cooldown?-
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Yes. Fate used Plasma Whip on vezokpiraka, and then Spark Sap on Plum. That Spark Sap failed, just like my last action.Gammagooey #567 wrote:Feysal.
You know that Plasma whip is a 2-day cooldown.
YOU MADE THE ACTION CHARTS saying that Fate used Plasma Whip one day and then another ability the next.
He couldn't do that if there were not shenanigans going on.-
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Okay, game seems to have calmed down. VP Baltar is not dead yet, which is probably a good thing. The way he was acting yesterday when he believed he was dying today looked townish. Sorry for the suspicion, I'm being paranoid.
As for Fate, judging from that scum roleblock idea he had, he really has not been following any sort of plan. He looks like he really did not know his attack would not work, and I would expect scum to be more careful than that, and if not Fate himself, then the scumteam should know not to attract too much attention to themselves. I don't mean that scum would not be trigger happy, I expect there are one or two scum among those who started the game with guns blazing, but by continuing it Fate made himself stick out like a sore thumb, and scum don't like to do that. Fate could have used a weapon today and has not done so, and if this lasts, I don't really want either him or VP Baltar dead.
Mechanics-wise, it seems Gammagooey, VasudeVa and vezokpiraka are in agreement that the EMP should have a 2-day cooldown, and the fact that vezokpiraka has used it twice in succession is proof his ability is working, if only for himself. If it indeed is a special ability, and if my theory that the scum cannot have those is correct, then vezokpiraka is town.
For Plum, I got a townish feel from her, and only the blast in A1 made me doubt that. I'd still like her to take a blank shot at something, so we get confirmation that she has some other weapon than the Plasma Burst. Unfortunately for her, since she was in B2, she could have been in either A2 or B1 when the blast happened, so she is not off the hook yet. Trust is good, but proof is better.
Furcolow remains silent, and that continues to look odd.
Now, things to do... there is another module in A2. VasudeVa and TheButtonmen are closest, and I don't mind either of them taking it... unless their presence in game becomes a problem. Gammagooey seems to be moving in that direction. Is there anyone else who might want that module?
I notice there was a humming sound for the second consecutive time. From the demo, the only thing I remember making that sound was Capacitate, used by inHimshallibe. Can you tell us what that ability did? We have no proof of course that someone is using that same ability, but it would be better than a random guess. I'd be happier if I knew the humming was not something nefarious.-
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Whoa. So yesterday was only the calm before the storm? Now we have Plum apparently dying next cycle from CKD's whip. Fate is back on the offensive too, and I'm not seeing much agreement on reads right now. Reading the last page was so confusing.
I'll try to make sense of this later, for now I'll just comment that I believe Furcolow is posting from a phone. Feudal was such a bizarre misspell of my name that it should only have resulted from some autocomplete feature on a phone.-
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Okay, after almost 6 cycles and 24 pages, it's about time I came up with some reads. Let's see...
TOWN
chesskid3
- Because of his carefree style, which I consider a town indicator from him, based on the few games of his I've seen. Town chesskid3 would not care who he pisses off, I think.
Fate
- With the ruckus he is making, he may be more helpful to scum than town, but I'm just not seeing why scum would go out on such a random rampage. He has misunderstood several things about the setup, submitted invalid attacks, but I'm not seeing the kind of focus or purpose I'd expect from scum, he is too much all over the place.
Gammagooey
- Asking questions, scumhunting, generally not turning the game into a bloodbath. Basically just townish behavior.
Plum
- I had a townread on her pretty much from the start, I wavered after the A1 blast, and now that she decloaked, I'm back to expecting she flips town. If she flips at all, those comments of hers when she was attacked looked odd, like she had some trick up her sleeve.
TheButtonmen
- His early contributions were very townish, and that remains the basis of my town read. He has dropped below the radar lately, but I don't want to hold it against him, unless it turns into active lurking.
vezokpiraka
- Scum should not have special abilities, and if his increased recharge speed is one, he should be town.
VP Baltar
- I got worried at the start about scum trying to look pro-town by appearing to organize the town, but his reaction to being apparently dying looked like it came from town.
NULL
inHimshallibe
- Process of elimination would probably put him as a scum suspect, only I'm not actually getting a scum feeling from him. I'm not getting a strong feeling either way, in fact.
VasudeVa
- I somehow had a townish feeling on him earlier, but when I read through his ISO trying to justify that read, I could not. There is not much there, one early suggestion of making this a giant shootout, then some confusion about what he did with his EMP, and now he suddenly has a scumread of vezokpiraka and he is taking matters in his own hands by shooting him. Why him? Why now?
SCUM
curiouskarmadog
- His early contributions, or lack thereof, don't agree with me. His attack on Plum was just horrible - town players should not lash out and kill when they fall under suspicion, him doing so just screams cornered scum. I also don't get where his scumread of Plum came from, the first time he mentioned that was after Plum had decloaked. I also hate these mindgames of his, trying to get chesskid3 to enter a bet with him on whether he is town, as well as his defeatist attitude of agreeing to be killed if he is wrong. Town always make mistakes, they should not make this kind of bets on another player's alignment, and certainly not when there have been no flips. I will wait to see Plum flip (unless she has some shenanigans planned), but if she turns out town, I don't think we can let this pass.
Furcolow
- His low rate of posting may be due to connection problems and having to use a phone, but I'm still mistrustful of the content in his posts. What I would expect from Furcolow is rapidly changing scum suspects, and him running all over the place firing shots, but instead he is now being very sensible, so much that I have to wonder if it is an act. I also wonder why his stance on me changed. I was his first scum suspect for my reaction to his shot, and suddenly I find him believing I am town. How did that happen? And why would he have a problem with me believing his posting by phone claim? It feels there is something strange here.
And now for something mechanics-related. This is the 6th cycle, and we're about to go into the 7th. I've wondered why the Gamma Pulse has not been used yet, and it may be because it had to charge up first. I'm not sure if it will be used the night after tomorrow, but if it is, the locations we will have at the end of this cycle will remain in effect when the Gamma Pulse is fired. Some players have already moved, and that cannot be helped. I am going to move into the corner now, for two reasons. One, I don't want to be targeted by the Gamma Pulse, even if it should not be strong enough to kill me right now. Two, there are fewer players I could shoot at from the corner, and if possible I'd like to rule myself out as a suspect when the Gamma Pulse is fired.
>Move(C3);
I've been slacking off on keeping track of actions, time to correct that.
Actions cycle 1 FINAL
Actions cycle 2 FINAL
Actions cycle 3 FINAL
Spoiler: Actions cycle 4 FINAL
Spoiler: Actions cycle 5 FINAL
Spoiler: Actions cycle 6-
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Feysal Mafia Scum
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I fail at reading. Only now, after catching up on the last 12 hours worth of posts, did I realize there is another module in B2. And there is another race for it. I don't know what to say about that whole episode of trying to be the first to grab the module, but all I can say is that it is really messing with our organization. And hell, fighting over items is really going to get stupid. Thank goodness Fate is in cooldown, that attack of his on Gammagooey was just... what? Have you any other town reads besides me, Fate? Wanting to pick up a module does not make scum.
On the topic of whether to shoot inHim, I say maybe. Plum will flip tomorrow, perhaps someone will be fired with the Gamma Pulse tomorrow, we will be in a different situation with more information then. This game has a fast tempo, I would be lenient if inHim's only sin is being late with his reread.-
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Gammagooey #859 wrote:Fate I want you to look at Feysal's posts regarding Plum and then come back here and tell me that you think you're still completely sure that he wasn't just trying to get some credit for her town flip later on.
Given that I had not even posted after the flip to comment on it, I think you're both way too quick to accuse me of angling for town cred. I will comment now, and say that there is no town credit to be gained, anywhere, for a serial killer flip. Yes, I believed Plum was town, I was wrong. So were some others. Yes, I defended Plum, so what? Of course I would defend her. I believed she was town, I wanted to believe she was town, since her ability would've been priceless in town hands. What better reason is there to defend someone? I used my head and tried to prove whether Plum was scum, in two different ways, while several others just started gunning for her. Am I really scum because I was thinking instead of shooting?VP Baltar #864 wrote:I think you make some good points about Feysal hedging his bets on a Plum town flip Gamma. I don't see why he was so damn resistant to the idea that she could have caused the damage up there. It almost makes me think she didn't cause it and that scum-Feysal knew his team did it. Then when attention turned toward SK-Plum, he assumed she was a townie that had nothing related to what his scum team did. Regardless, he's way off my town list.
I also seem to remember Gammagooey being suspicious of me for lack of scumhunting. Then I posted my reads, and suddenly I'm scum because I believed Plum. Confirmation bias, anyone?
Oh, and in case you don't know what I'm talking about with the two ways of testing Plum, one was about the nature of her special ability, which I assumed scum could not have - and continue to assume scumfactionscould not have. The other way is in the following quotes:
Feysal #511 wrote:Something I've wondered is whether anyone ended up with more modules than others. I've seen no evidence of anyone having more than two. So, assuming everyone has only two, if we wanted to make sure Plum was not the culprit for the A1 explosion, we could ask her to fire whatever weapon she has. It should be her only one, her other module having been taken up by the cloak. If she can thus prove she has a different weapon than the Plasma Burst, that should clear her further.
We know that everyone is guaranteed to have an offensive ability. Plum also had her cloak. That makes two abilities, and I've seen no indication of anyone having more than two abilities at start. Twice I suggested that Plum should shoot, to prove that she has some other weapon than the Plasma Burst, but she never did. Any guesses why? Right now I'm betting she did not have another weapon, and she could not reveal she had the Plasma Burst either. If she had not been killed, I would have continued to press this matter, and I could have exposed Plum if she continued to refuse. I claim no credit for calling her town, but this?Feysal #611 wrote:For Plum, I got a townish feel from her, and only the blast in A1 made me doubt that. I'd still like her to take a blank shot at something, so we get confirmation that she has some other weapon than the Plasma Burst. Unfortunately for her, since she was in B2, she could have been in either A2 or B1 when the blast happened, so she is not off the hook yet. Trust is good, but proof is better.ThisI do claim credit for. While others have been shooting seemingly at random, I had a plan that could have exposed Plum, if some trigger happy players had not lucked out and killed her early. I'm still not happy with the way Plum was killed, since we got lucky, and these games are not won by blind luck.
Nevertheless, I'm not very concerned for my own fate right now. VP Baltar probably has no idea what I'm talking about here, but he gave me an important clue in his last post. If I'm right, we're going to find out soon enough.-
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Feysal Mafia Scum
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Well damn.
Remember this? Did anyone wonder? What I was talking about was this:Feysal #872 wrote:Nevertheless, I'm not very concerned for my own fate right now. VP Baltar probably has no idea what I'm talking about here, but he gave me an important clue in his last post. If I'm right, we're going to find out soon enough.
Guess who else had a P2P? Guess who thought it was a great idea to form a three-member neighborhood with VP and inHim, with inHim as the middleman? Guess who tried to do that just before inHim was killed? Damn it.VP Baltar #864 wrote:Again, I say you need to trust me on the inHim thing. If you don't think he's that town, I will tell you this: he openly told me his abilities through a game mechanic and I don't think this is something the scum would do. Additionally, his abilities don't seem like something scum would have, so that is why I don't think it is likely he's scum.
How the hell was inHim killed anyway? As pointed out, the Gamma Pulse should only have done 6 HP of damage, and the EMP an additional 1 HP. inHim was at 80%, so he should not have died. In case this was not a mistake, something caused inHim to take additional damage.
1. Either the Gamma Pulse works differently than it is described in the sample role PM.
2. Or, someone else was able to shoot, privately, causing additional damage. Given that we have no explanation for the vanishing module, this seems at least plausible. Also, this is something that can be partly tested, by checking if the players who were in range to shoot inHim are in cooldown. I'll be checking back to see if any of the same players were nearby when the module vanished.
Right. I had this idea a while back (see post #608 for one), that is why I asked you what the cooldown of the EMP was. vezokpiraka has already used his EMP on successive cycles, so he can be ruled out as a suspect.VasudeVa #926 wrote:Actually, you're right. I forgot vezok claimed that he had a special ability. I think that there is one way to confirm him having a special ability.
Upgrade to what? PlasmaPistol is the best weapon town can possibly have.Furcolow #944 wrote:I only have a plasma pistol, though, and I have been trying to upgrade to something good for the town to no avail.
1. PlasmaWhip causes more damage (5 HP compared to 3 HP), but takes twice as long to recharge. PlasmaPistol can cause 6 HP of damage to a single target in two cycles, PlasmaWhip can only cause 5 HP.
2. PlasmaWhip can only target players in the same region. PlasmaPistol can target linear targets up to two steps away.
3. TriAttack can cause 6 HP of damage in one shot, but divided between 3 players. This is useless to town, since as town you generally want to damage only one player at a time. In other words, TriAttack sucks, and I have no idea why you would want it back.
4. PlasmaBurst is yet another mass attack weapon, even worse than TriAttack, since you cannot adjust damage per target, you cannot pick targets in the first place, and you cannot use it against anyone in your own region.
5. SparkSap is the only weapon that compares to PlasmaPistol, since a single shot is likely to result in death, as evidenced by VP Baltar. I don't know any details on how it works though.
6. EMP is nice to have for investigating purposes (reveals support abilities) but useless for causing damage, unless it disables a shield.
So stop complaining about your weapon. PlasmaPistol is great, and I note that you have done nothing with it except shoot me.-
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My my... I just noticed something interesting. I may deserve a tinfoil hat for this, but since it can be checked easily enough, why not do so.
VP Baltar, you said you had neighborized inHimshallibe. When did you do this?
Also, I named the neighborizer ability as P2P in my last post. That should prove I had the ability, at least in the demo phase. Could you answer a control question to prove your side of the story? My question is this: even though the P2P is one-shot, it has a cooldown that affects the use of other support abilities. What is the cooldown time of P2P, or the neighborizer?-
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Your answer is correct of course. My theory was something worthy of a tinfoil hat... I wondered if you and inHim were in fact two members of a scumteam, and no neighborizing had ever taken place. I had some reasons to come up with this. For one, I thought it odd that inHim had pretty much stayed put in his corner, and never moved to any location he should be in according to your plan, which he first suggested. Second, the response I got to my attempt to neighborize inHim said that it had failed, which could make sense since he was dying... however, support abilities are supposed to resolve before offensive abilities, so in theory the action should have been successful, but the P2P link should have closed immediately when inHim died. This made me wonder if there was some other reason for my attempt to fail. Finally, what you said about him being resurrected by someone made me wonder if he was really dying, or if the attack had only destroyed a decoy hologram. No, really. If I had such a hologram as scum, I would shoot at it and use it as proof that the scum had tried to kill me.VP Baltar #950 wrote:Feysal, please explain what your questions were intended for and why you wanted me to "prove" my neighborizor ability when I'm going to die. You think I would lie about it?
So it was a crazy theory, but since it could be checked so easily with a simple question, I figured, why not?
As a matter of fact, I'm not sure if I still have my P2P. The response I got did not specify if I lost it or not, though I probably did.
Indeed. At the time the module vanished, there were only few people nearby who could've taken it. Gammagooey and CKD were in the region with the module, and in adjacent regions there were inHim, chesskid3, and me. You would probably know if inHim had taken it. I know I did not. CKD is already dying. If CKD flips town, that would appear to leave chesskid3 as the only possibility. Unless... Plum. She was in the same region as chesskid3, as proven by chesskid3's attack on her, and she could've stolen that module. Both chesskid3 and Plum posted in thread before Gammagooey tried to pick up the module, so it could've been either of them. I'm betting on Plum.VP Baltar #950 wrote:FYI, my other ability was to pick up modules that were adjacent to me...which is why I headed south before I realized I was still sparking. I could have potentially picked up the module before fate by being next to it. Scum probably have this ability and nabbed the first module out from under Gamma before. So it might be worthwhile to look back at who was up there.-
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I said nothing about a chesskid3 flip, I was talking about CKD. Since we know for a fact that confirmed scum Plum was nearby, I don't think there is basis to accuse either chesskid3 or me for taking the module. Of course I deny taking it, and I cannot prove it. You believe me or you don't.Fate #961 wrote:I don't like that Feysal is accounting for a Chesskid town flip by saying, well IIF CHESS FLIPS TOWN IT WAS PLUM THEN I SWEARRRZ.
God damnt feysal. After defending you ALL THIS TIMEZ you're a dirty fuckin scumbag aren't you
Meanwhile, I would like to know whether this was a special ability. I rather doubt it though, so far all special abilities have been unique.
On the topic of how inHim died, does anyone think firing blank shots would have any value? What I'm wondering is if some scum has an ability to fire an ordinary offensive weapon by PM, and used it in addition to the Gamma Pulse.-
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Feysal Mafia Scum
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So, CKD was town. Damn him. If he had not overreacted, twice, and attacked chesskid3 and Plum without authorization, he could still be alive.
In other news, VP is fading, and TheButtonmen and chesskid3 are about to be fading. We will have flips in two cycles. If they turn out to be town, process of elimination says that Furcolow is probably scum, and my second suspect then would probably be VasudeVa. If either of them turns out to be scum, then my reads will depend on which one, and how the rest of the town reacts.
Meanwhile, VasudeVa apparently intends to shoot his EMP at me or Furcolow. That would result in our support abilities being disabled. Furcolow has been promising some sort of magic to win this game for town... So unless he wants to lose whatever magic that may be, perhaps it would be time to share.
Meanwhile, the only support ability I ever had was the P2P, and I'm not sure if I still have it. I'm using it today, to prevent it from being wasted in case I still have it.
I don't think I've ever heard you explain why there would be any connection between me and TheButtonmen. Saying that I should die immediately after TBM if he flips scum implies you think there is. Why not share? All I have ever heard from you regarding myself is how scummy I am, but the reasons have constantly changed, or have not been stated at all. I am asking now. Why would I need to die?Gammagooey #986 wrote:But TBM dies first, and assuming a TBM scum flip (because TBM is scum), Feysal needs death immediately afterwards.
What is this, some gut feelings laced with rhetoric? If this is what you call scumhunting, the town read I had on you is fading fast.Gammagooey #989 wrote:And the Unless...Plum from Feysal looks super duper faked. When was the last time you realized something and then typed it up like that later. (hint: nevar, you just say that you think Plum did it not chess because *reasonsreasonsreasons*)
I would also like to know what you think about Furcolow. I'm starting to find it strange how you've ignored his totally uncharacteristic behavior while you've tunneled on me.-
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Two reasons, and they should be obvious. One, you are looking mighty strange the way you are acting this game, and if you are town, you should do something about it before people start shooting. Second, like I said in my last post, VasudeVa already intends to shoot one of us, and if he hits you it is going to disable whatever support ability you may have. If you are doing something useful, you should not want VasudeVa to stop you doing it, would you?Furcolow #944 wrote:Why should I claim to your rolefishing?
I am beginning to rethink who I should have shot...
That said, I don't think there should be more shooting until we get all three flips. The information we're going to get from those is going to allow us to make much more informed decisions, and I'd hate to lose this game just because people did not bother to wait for new information.-
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I'm fine with you not trusting me, that is just common sense in a mafia game. I don't really trust you either. I don't know what to make of it when you make this much sense, but I do like it.Furcolow #1001 wrote:Feysal, I simply do not trust you. My back is against a wall, and I don't care how good you believe this pistol to be, I don't like it. I don't plan on shooting every chance I get like Fate has been, because I have to find someones actions to be scummy before I will do something (him shooting at you and I is anti-town to me), other than when I judged your initial reaction.
Judging your reaction was key at that time, as you were someone I respected in a certain game I'm not going to mention. I know you are good at gaming setups, so I wanted to make sure you weren't going to game me.
However sure I have been of that, if you are town, you need to really bring out your A game, bro. Reason being, because I am town, and we have literally no suspects at the moment. GammaGooey is sitting at 100%, with multiple modules, and could be on the verge of winning the game.
What I said about your gun was what I genuinely think. If you wanted to, you could cause three times as much damage to me than I could cause to you, and with me already injured, you would certainly win if we were to fight it out. You would also win in a fight with Gammagooey, as long as he does not have another weapon besides his Plasma Burst. If you want further proof that neither you or anyone else has anything to fear from me, I can fire a blank shot with my TriAttack, putting myself into cooldown for two cycles.
As for gaming setups, there is something I've been thinking about. I think we can engineer a setup where town cannot possibly lose, like this:
(empty) (empty) Fate, Gammagooey, VasudeVa(empty) (empty) Feysal, Furcolowvezokpiraka(empty) (empty)
After VP Baltar, TheButtonmen and chesskid3 flip, there will be only us six left. There will be three cycles left until the scum can use their Gamma Pulse again. That should be quite enough time to decide this game in favor of town.
vezokpiraka is alone in his corner in C1, because he is safe there. No one is in a position where he could shoot at him from. Why him? Because vezokpiraka is the closest we have to confirmed town. He was hit by VasudeVa's EMP, proving that his enhanced recharge speed is a special ability, and he therefore cannot have access to the scum factional weapon. Consequently he should be town. With his pathetic armament, I can't believe he would be third party either.
C1 should also be safe from mines. Note that there have been two clicks this game. The first time this happened, C1 was empty, so there cannot be a mine there from back then. Unless chesskid3 put one there last cycle, there can't be one there even now. For the sake of safety, vezokpiraka could wait for chesskid3 to flip, and if he flips town, vezokpiraka can go to C1.
You and I need to move to B3, so that we're not on the same row as vezokpiraka, and because neither of us can be sure if the other has mined C3. B3 should not be mined, and if it is, the only player who could have mined it is Gammagooey. Only he and CKD were in B3 when the first click was heard, and there was no one there the second time. If something goes off when we enter B3, Gammagooey is scum.
Everyone else gathers into A3. This is because Gammagooey can, as far as we know, only shoot at people in adjacent squares, so he can do nothing to people in the same square with him. Also, inHim was the only player in A3 when both clicks were heard, so A3 is certain to be mine free. From A3, Gammagooey can kill you and me both, and if we both flip town, then Fate and VasudeVa will be able to terminate Gammagooey with ease, so he cannot win if he is scum. VasudeVa with his poor weapon can also do little against Fate, so VasudeVa won't be able to win this game for scum either. Basically, this plan should guarantee that Fate and vezokpiraka are the last two players alive, and survive to win this game for town. I'm counting on Fate being town.
Any comments on this? The plan may need some adjustment when the flips come, but for now, this is the best I can do. You asked for my A game, this is it. Naturally, there will be no more races for modules. If we use this plan, then no one is allowed to pick up any more modules, since this would require people to move, and the new modules would only complicate things.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I don't agree on Furcolow being a detriment. I think he can contribute to the town's victory still.vezokpiraka #1002 wrote:Oh man. Furcolow is a detriment to the town right now.
Why isn't GG on the map? Did you take a cloak or something?
Gammagooey is on the map, he's in A2. His code is G.-
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Feysal Mafia Scum
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I am not certain about Fate either, but out of him, Gammagooey and VasudeVa, I think Fate is the one I would trust most to win this game for town. Thing is, we need his firepower. He is the only one, besides you, who could guarantee that Gammagooey can't win if we both flip town.Furcolow #1005 wrote:I like it, but I'm not certain about Fate
I do not like moving, however. Is there a way vezokpiraka can move and us reach the same goal?
Furthermore, I feel like you could be scum trying to motivate me into attacking you so you are "justified" in killing me.
For the second question, vezokpiraka could move to A1 instead and the people I put into A3 could move to B3. The only problem is mines. There was a crowd in A1 when the first click was heard, and there may still be a timed mine there. Also, neither of us has a guarantee that the other has not mined C3. I was here when the first click was heard, and we were both here for the second. If you're worried about the possibility of a mine in B3, I can move there first, and you can follow the next cycle if nothing happens. It is not necessary for both of us to risk a mine blast.
For the third, I'm not trying to get you to attack me. In fact, if we use this plan, I'd prefer to reduce Gammagooey's HP some, so that Fate could one-shot him if necessary. I would trade my life for the knowledge that the scum was too far weakened to win after I was gone, but I would not agree to die and leave Gammagooey at 100%.-
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Okay, I guess I'll move there as well.
Move: B3-
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Wait, how did I miss this earlier?Furcolow #1009 wrote:ill have at least a day to try to upgrade to a miracle to bring VP back,
unless you want me to bring someone else back?
You have an ability to revive? Then, the humming sound we've been hearing for a while was from that? If true, now I understand why you've been so quiet.
Can you share any details? Like, does it only work on players who are fading? That would explain why players are fading for one day prior to flipping, Vi said something cryptic about that way back in #137. If this is true, then VP would be an excellent choice to bring back. Hopefully you don't need to be in the same region or anything like that, that would make the ability rather limited.
Oh, and a couple more things I need to do:
>TriAttack(Fate, 0, Furcolow, 0, VasudeVa, 0);
>P2P(Fate);
With this blank shot I am now in cooldown for two days, and cannot use any offensive abilities until we get flips. I did this so that Gammagooey would have no reason not to move to A3. Now I can't shoot at him there, or anyone else for that matter.
As for the P2P, I probably lost it on inHim, but I'd rather try it than lose it to VasudeVa's EMP. I'll probably get a confirmation that I don't have it any more, I am somewhat confused about the error response I got.-
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Well, things certainly started moving fast. You're welcome to present your case on me, Gammagooey, but I doubt it will make much difference. I am agreeing to die anyway, by your attack or someone else's, if that is what it takes to prove my alignment. If it was not obvious yet, the town read I had on you has pretty much gone. I can't understand how you could connect me to TheButtonmen if he flipped scum. This makes me think that you are in fact bussing him, and you planned to get rid of me next. I will come quietly. But before I die, I want to leave the town in a winning position.
If Furcolow manages to bring back VP, I will consider him confirmed town as well. With the Spark Sap on him, VasudeVa possibly being scum is no longer a concern. My only real worry is whether I'm wrong about Fate after all... but, I don't have the firepower to make this work without his cooperation, which he seems to be offering, which is a very good sign. As long as vezokpiraka is the last man standing, the town will win this game.
Oddly enough, this is not the first plan I've made in a mafia game that involved my own death... I had a suicidal trend going in my first games. Somehow I never ended up lynched though.-
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So, basically your case on me comes down to three things.
One: not having reads at the very start of the game is scummy. This is obviously false. How often have you had reliable reads so soon into a game? I would be much more suspicious of someone who claimed to have good reads so early.
Two: having a town read and defending that player is scummy. This contradicts the first point, where it was scummy not to have reads. You said that there was not much reason for Plum to be town? That is your interpretation. From my point of view, having a gut town read and a game mechanics reason was plenty, not to mention I wanted to investigate further before Plum would be summarily shot. Are you saying I did wrong? Had she been town, she would have been a valuable asset. And you talk as if there was no way I could defend Plum without being scum. Town players act on limited information all the time, and sometimes they defend scum. Everyone has done this.
Oh and by the way, a 9-2-1-1 setup would make no sense whatsoever. That would require 13 players, and we had 12. Also, there was absolutely no setup speculation in thread before Plum flipped. It never occurred to me that there could be a serial killer.
Three: having some similar behaviors with someone who may flip scum is scummy. This... what is this bullshit? Basically you're saying that all members of a scum team should have similar behaviors, never mind that they are different people with different playstyles? And TheButtonmen has not even flipped yet! Why were you so certain he would be scum? I did not really believe it until you killed TheButtonmen, and he just stopped talking instead of making use of his remaining time like town should.
And finally, there is the mystery of the vanishing module. This is the only part of your case I would give any credit to, and even here there is the problem that there is a confirmed scum who could have taken the module. I don't buy your reasoning why Plum couldn't have taken it. She had uncloaked, the heat was dying down, there was no need for her to reveal all her cards yet. She could have found a support module she did not want to reveal. And then CKD killed her. I don't see why she couldn't have died and taken the module with her.
Of course, my response is a moot point, since I've agreed to die anyway. How does that fit into your case? If you are town, and I have my doubts about that, you've completely wasted your time chasing me, and you're about to be discredited when I flip.
Now - move to A3, please. I want you, Fate and VasudeVa in the same area, and as far away from vezokpiraka as possible.-
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I believe I have lost it already, according to the description the ability should be lost when it is used, and I did use it on inHim on the last day he was alive. If you were to shoot me with your EMP, I would probably take damage and there would be no pop.VasudeVa #1070 wrote:Feysal, if I disable your P2P, will you lose it forever or have you already lost it?
If you think vezokpiraka could be scum despite his special ability and poor armament, that is fine. I think you're dead wrong, but fine. That is not a reason yet for believing vezokpiraka to be scum. You did the math yourself, you know the 1 HP of damage from his EMP was not enough to cause inHim's death to the Gamma Pulse. Since he fired the EMP, he could not have fired another offensive weapon that cycle that could've caused inHim's death. You see, there is significant evidence in favor of vezokpiraka being town. Have you anything to counter that?VasudeVa #1076 wrote:I don't think vezok is not scum. It could easily be his buddy who shot the Gamma Pulse. I think he purposely shot inHim in order to lower his HP to kill him. There must've been some mad calculation in the scum QT or something. Plan Fails, I am not following it.
Your claim that I was faking a reaction is just another unfounded accusation. How do you tell the difference between a genuine and fake reaction anyway, particularly from someone you've never played with before? You don't. Apparently.Gammagooey #1075 wrote:A)This doesn't fit into any of your shitty summary and is just plain scummy behavior
For the second part of that quote, why would generally good advice need to be accompanied by threats of reprisals, or names of people the threat was directed against? What was I going to do, join in the carnage? How would that have helped? The people who had spent the first day taking potshots at each other all knew who they were. As for the accountability part...what the hell are you talking about?I was not even there when most of those shots were fired, the only player to shoot on the first day after my first post was CKD, who was my first scum read for it. Why oh why would you expect me to take responsibility for the actions of other players I have no control over, taken at a time I was not even present at the thread? In mafia games, each player is responsible only for his own play. Trying to make me accountable for the play of others is complete nonsense.
To give an example of how accountability works, the only person responsible for making this case on me is you. When I flip town, and believe me I will, you can't get away with it by blaming me for acting so scummy. Your read, your responsibility. You see?
It's called long-term memory. I have not forgotten how you described me as a scum read at the end of the second cycle, and the only criticism you had made against me by then was for my lack of reads. If your read was not about the lack of reads, whatGammagooey #1075 wrote:and B) What the fuck are you smoking to get THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT I JUST WROTE.wasit about?
C.1) I don't think 8-2-1-1 makes much sense either. Plum was armed with a cloak and with a perfect weapon for mass destruction. No one else has abilities that would compare to hers, so I don't think there is another serial killer.Gammagooey #1079 wrote:C.1)8-2-1-1 you know what I meant.
C.2)Part of a serial killer not occuring to you and instead you-scum thinking it was an alternate scumteam that made the NW plasma burst and therefore NOT Plum was part of the case against you.
C.2) As I said, the setup speculation began only after Plum flipped. Before that, I don't recall anyone saying anything about Plum possibly being a serial killer. So, your argument is that I thought there would be another scumteam, when there was no evidence of that whatsoever, and that Plum could not be part of that team. Weak. In fact I expected a single scumteam of three members, and that Plum could not be part of it. Now which do you think is more likely?
Also, something that annoys the hell out of me was that you accused me of defending Plum for town creditbefore I had commented on her flip at all. The way you made this accusation was as if defending someone was always scummy, as if no one could defend someone else without being scum looking for town credit. You have completely ignored the possibility that I could've had pro-town reasons for not wanting Plum summarily shot. Can you find a single occasion where I'd actually tried to claim credit for defending Plum? You can't, and that is why this whole point is garbage.
Now, while I continue to think that Gammagooey's case on me consists of tunneling, conjecture, confirm bias, hot air, tunneling and duct tape, I'm for dropping this. Writing this took some time, and while I was at it Vi posted something important: there was a mine explosion in A2, and Gammagooey was hurt. That calls for some research, and another post when I'm done.-
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Feysal Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1611
- Joined: October 7, 2010
- Location: Finland
Indeed. Unless you mined yourself for WIFOM, but I don't think you did. So, can you guess which of Fate and VasudeVa it was?Gammagooey #1089 wrote:Aaaaaand apparently one of Fate/VV is scum with a mining ability.
Wrong again. You're not very good at this logic thing, are you?Gammagooey #1089 wrote:VV I want some PRETTY DAMN GOOD REASONS not to shoot you when I come back later today.
I checked back when the first click was heard. There was no one in A2 then, so the mine could not have been placed then. Even Plum was too far away.
When the second click was heard, there were three players in A2. You, VasudeVa and Fate. None of you were in cooldown, I checked this too. VasudeVa and Fate moved to A3, you stayed. Let's have a look at those posts, shall we?
VasudeVa #942 wrote:EMP: TBMShields are down.
Move: East, because I'm going to check on something. >.>
I could argue that VasudeVa was the first to get out of A2. On the other hand, his reason was more sensible, since he wanted to move to where he could shoot at me and Furcolow. None of this matters.Fate #976 wrote:Move: east
WHERE THE FUCK YOU GOIN VV?VasudeVa fired his EMP before he moved, putting him in cooldown for two cycles. Mines are offensive abilities. You cannot use two offensive abilities during one cycle. Ergo, VasudeVa could not have used the mine. QED.
That leaves only two possibilities: you and Fate. VasudeVa did not use the mine. If you are town, you now know that Fate cannot be.-
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Feysal Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1611
- Joined: October 7, 2010
- Location: Finland
Right, I missed that. In my defense, I did not even look at your actions, I did not think you would be in A2 anyway if you had placed the mine. That settles it then, the mine had to be Fate's doing. Now we have to figure out how to take him down.Gammagooey #1093 wrote:And on the haha you messed up too side (im sorry i couldn't help it), I couldn't have set the mine there myself either-
I fired the Plasma burst that day :3
My top two scum reads are in a 1 to 1 with each other, and Fate finally gets to die.
My day is getting significantly better.
Fate's probably going to kill me now but at least he can go down with me =D
First things first, Fate cannot kill you this cycle. He is still in cooldown after trying Spark Sap on VasudeVa yesterday. Also, Plasma Whip is not a ranged attack, and as far as I know neither is Spark Sap. Fate should only be able to hurt players in his own region. You need to get out of the same region with him, either you wait for him to move or you try to move somewhere he won't follow.
If you are still concerned about me being scum with him, I can try to engage Fate directly. I can move to A3, from which I could shoot at Fate anywhere on the A row if he remains there. I hope you can look past our differences and cooperate with me here. I admit it, I was wrong about you, however you are also wrong about me. Now, I'd like to finally see some teamwork in this game.
In case it was not obvious, this development changes everything. My plan cannot work if it requires Fate to be among the last players alive, so it has to be abandoned. However, I am not backing out of my offer to die without resistance, but Fate has to be first.
My suggestion for where we should be tonight:
(empty)