Mini 14 ~ Mafia Holographica (Game Over!)

[VP Baltar]

VP - Some mines don't detonate until there's someone around to hit.

Fair enough. If that's the case, we send in someone scummy to take one for the team. Refusal = death.

As for the plan I like going A1 B3 and C2 better- still prevents any linear firing but it also ensures that at least one group is within one tile of any item drops that occur so we can use em' faster.

See, now this man is thinking. Pro-town points for you.

except I think VV is more likely town than not

Why's that?

I could maybe compromise for a Furc or Fate kill today. Not sure yet, but we need to decide quickly. Everyone needs to be posting who they want to kill this phase in their next post so we can come to a consensus without wasting much more time.

Also, I agree with GG's movement plans. Here is where everyone needs to be for this phase, unless there are any reasonable objections.

A1-VPB, Fate, Buttonmen, Vezo
B3-Gamma, chesskid, ckd, Plum (uncloaked please)
C2-VV, Inhim, Feysal, Furcolow

Other than Vas and Inhim, people do not have far to go, so get there and prepare yourselves. Target can move to center square when we're ready to kill and be eliminated accordingly. That is, if the other players in the same square do not have the firepower to do so without aid. If you have moves to make, please submit them before 9pm (GMT-5) tonight.

[Fate]

HOW THE FUCK DARE YOU PUT ME ON THE KILL LIST WITH FURCOLOW

THIS INSULT IS WORSE THAN TREASON

[Fate]

(I agree with your plan for now and see no immediate flaws. CKD's flip of scum would confirm that plan as a good idea)

[chesskid3]

CKD town would also make me more suspicious of fate.
so it's a pretty good kill either way.

[Gammagooey]

except I think VV is more likely town than not

Why's that?

A mystical combination of me thinking he'd be more cautious as scum, that I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't plan to fake confusion about the mafia kill (ignorance maybe, but not confusion IMO), and that I think it's a minor towntell.

[VP Baltar]

I think he's frustrated that I put them on the ropes early, but I'm open for discussion.

@chesskid - you say the word 'also' in your reasoning for wanting ckd dead. What are all of your reasons in bullet list form again?

[chesskid3]

50% of being scum based on PoE of starting locations + throwing in a GG townread.
Scummy posts in thread

[VP Baltar]

I agree with GG town read anyhow. Your PoE doesn't have much merit unfortunately. I get why you are saying that, but it's a lot of WIFOM.

What do you think are his top three scummy posts?

[chesskid3]

I am here...got to get caught up, but it looks like it is the same old game, people shooting based on nothing.

#1
He got hit for half his hp
this is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY underreacting...like scum scared of overreacting.

we could actually play this like a mafia game....we vote like normal, give ourselves two week deadlines that we stick too....at the end of the two weeks, the one who has the most votes die by firing squad of sorts...we dont use our powers until we vote...

..or we can just keep doing the same old bullshit.

@chess, you want me to "overreact"? trust me you dont...and yes..it was a threat.

Up to the @chess part this is very scummy. Like scum worried about how everyone has 2-3 townreads already, so if we do it melee style, scum can only attack those players once every week, while we just eliminate everyone who is not a confident townread before they can remove my 3 townreads+ me, for example.
The @chess part is a pure gut towntell, but meh. COuld also be his personality.

in reference to your idea.

here are my problems with it..

first, you are making a lot of assumptions about how the mafia/town can shoot....how do you know? am I missing something else? I shoot in a linear way, but I dont know if my shot will go through the people in my "box" first....and yes..I say first...and though I dont have it now...in the demo phase I had a kick ass ability that did a ton of damage, but had a chance to miss and hit someone else in the same line.

first you say there is already a group, but then you suggest the groups being broken up into towniest, town, scummy...so which is it? if we break up people in those groups, who is going to say who is the scummiest...it will take time to come up with lists...then, by the time we get the lists there wont be much time for the individual groups to make a decision...

so no..I dont like your plan.

Here are my problems with your plan: ohshityounailedhowitworks, let me pretend that's not how it works, whilst subtly implying you mght be scum for knowing how it works.

Which breangs me to: What say you people of a demo weapons claim? More info is always better.

I think this is a good idea...especially if people rally behind VP's idea...which I am still not liking.

another question VP...if you were scum, could you come up with anyways that scum could use your idea to their advantage?....whether it be in group creation, placement, "voting" or anyting. you are a smart guy, so I really am looking forward to your answer here.

What town EVER SAYS "IF YOU WERE SCUM" on page 3?

[VP Baltar]

I'm not sold really. Maybe the underreacting thing, but that's kind of a stretch.

ckd looks kind of scummy naturally though. Jury is still out for me. I need to see him play some more before I decide.

[Plum]

VP - Some mines don't detonate until there's someone around to hit.

Fair enough. If that's the case, we send in someone scummy to take one for the team. Refusal = death.

In principle, sure. In practice, we may not know where a mine is until it's too late.

Wait, we're going to be in our designated squares for the entire phase?

[Furcolow]

I guess I get to be the first to respond to this stupidity.

Furcolow what the fuck are you doing.

....Are you even serious. I get ninjaed by more of this.

Why the hell are you shooting at people when the game IS JUST STARTING. BOTH OF YOU.

My shot on Feysal was more of a Jack-style-reactionary test slash RVS which I figured we would have. Consider it like a marine taking a shot on a zealot, then kiting it away. I was doing it to get the "your base is under attack" message to Feysal, basically. I wanted to see if he would attack me, and I believe if he was actually town he would, and he didn't, so he is on top of my scum list.

[Furcolow]

If you really think establishing the default hp is worse than Furc and chess's early shots then I have nothing but sighs for you today Plum.

How is a reactionary test even bad?
Plum is trying to gain town cred through setup speculation and condescending towards us here, I view that as way worse than what I've done

[Furcolow]

Headdesk

I get where your coming from as normally I'd be against this IIoA and putting so many cards on the table at the start as it let's scum plan out their actions that much more accurately but with a setup this complex town absolutely get organized by any means necessary.

@Everyone else:

Please include your thoughts on banning nonapproved shooting, the creation of a lynch cycle and your willingness to assist in the execution of any players who violate any rules we should decide on.

Believe it or not, at this point, I'm for it.
We should probably do something democratically, like electing a mayor or a committee to pick out lynches and have people focus on a target or two every time the mafia night kill

[Furcolow]

I'm for it I think but I'd rather do cycles faster than the Mafia kill recharges.

funny, she hit the same point i just hit here
difference is i want to do two for one

[Feysal]

Wait, we're going to be in our designated squares for the entire phase?

If I understood right, the Gamma Pulse is armed and ready to fire. I would be surprised if it was not fired tonight, and it is too late to avoid that.

After it is fired, we're going to have seven day cycles until it can be fired again, and during that time I'd be pleased with us all moving around some. I have an idea I'm working on... vezokpiraka, does your special ability decrease the recharge time of abilities other than weapons?

[Plum]

Furc - I also thought about doing two lynches per cycle, but with such short cycles I'm not sure how viable it is, not only from a decision-making perspective, but also the chances of being able to actually off someone that quickly could be stymied by such things as shields and whatnot.

Feysal - It'll take more than one move for some of us to get to our designated locations, though . . .

[Furcolow]

Banning nonapproved shooting is bad though, because mafia buddies aren't going to shoot each other.
So we can clear people on flips too :/

this is WIFOM and needs to be out of here
mafia may shoot each other for bussing/distancing
I, for one, if on a team with chesskid and vezokpiraka I would try to kill them off and skimp towards endgame with one engine.

if they want to create wifom
they have to shoot each other.

Ok let's put it this way.
I think based on the initial setup CKD has ~ 50% shot of being scum, and killing him will also almost 100% clear me if he flips scum.
Therefore I'm going to hunt him down and kill him.

You pretty much already did this for them! If they didn't have the idea, they do now.
This is another aspect of what I was trying to do with my Feysal reactionary test, which is trying to eliminate a relation with him.

...
THere's a huge difference between normal bussing
and SHOOTING YOUR PARTNER

it's called distancing

There's a difference between shooting and distancing but not much between shooting and bussing. Anyway there's plenty of inherent WIFOM in the system, and more if we account for Shields, Healing modules, whatever.

If even a very small percentage of the players don't agree to the system it won't work at all.

disagree
we see this oppositely
probably because you are scum and you want to delude everyone's opinions in the wrong way
i'm glad i caught this in this re-read because when I read it on my phone I viewed it as harmless

Furcolow is a reasonable choice if you are going to do that.
I'm only willy-nilly shooting CKD, because he is a very good percentage shot.
Fur is nigh on unreadable and also part of a neighborhood of two.

If you view me as unreadable, that's sort of sad. I can provide scumgames, and I am more vehement than Fate with caps locks on raving about a policy lynch.

It's not veiled at all nor is it meant to scare you.

Quite simply it's nothing personal but based on your play so far this game and my readings of your recent games I consider you a threat to town coherency and I don't think your willing to change your behaviour which makes you a liability given the setup so I want you removed.

I've played with you as scum on my team, and I have seen you make the same play, but you are being a bit more resolved with it this time. This earns my suspicion, though. +Scum points here

I mean that it's not worth pursuing a policy kill until we see how many players are interested or not, because we might just end up with too few players interested to be able to intimidate the rest with the threat of a policy kill anyway - if we started trying, we would just start a bloodbath.

plum is so scum, and for the same reason I'm suspicious of TBM. Pushing policy lynching, but only if the town won't turn on her? Scum.

Headdesk

I get where your coming from as normally I'd be against this IIoA and putting so many cards on the table at the start as it let's scum plan out their actions that much more accurately but with a setup this complex town absolutely get organized by any means necessary.

@Everyone else:

Please include your thoughts on banning nonapproved shooting, the creation of a lynch cycle and your willingness to assist in the execution of any players who violate any rules we should decide on.

>_>
<_<

D1 RVS lulz should be approved to generate discussion like this.

After that, votes death and all the like should be more accounted for and dealt with seriously.

BUT FOR NOW EVERYBODY TAKEP OT SHOTS WHIL WE GET EARLY READS.

Of all people I didn't expect you to understand
Every time I feel you're scum, you end up being town
I'm not feeling like you are probably town, so what does that mean?

K, reads:

TOWN
chesskid
Gamma
TBM

SCUM
Plum


Plum is definitely scum, not only does she have WAAAAAAY to much info about the supposed scum nightkill (what the fuck? They get a nightkill in a day with no goddamn nights!?!?! EXLAIN)

she's not even on the fucking grid.

Vi I don't know how the hell you're abbrevieting names but I'd appreciate a grid with actual names of players in this game cause I have no idea who FUUUUUUUUUU is.

Thanks.

This is the most important post of the game for me so far
This is where I have made my best read, which is that there are 3 scenarios from this

1) they are scum together, which I've sort of dismissed, but given the caliber of players they are it is not out of reach
2) Fate is scum and Plum is town, in this scenario Fate is definitely rewarded for calling Plum out here
3) Plum is scum and Fate is town, Fate gets +town points like he would as scum...

It's sort of null, but I am fairly certain that if Plum flips scum then Fate is town

With this, and with me reading on my phone earlier, my reads are as such:

Scum:
Feysal
1 of Plum/Fate
TBM

town:
VPB
vezokpiraka
ckd
chesskid



EBWOP: Of course you don't want us to have double-lynches as town, because you are mafia
I just pray others see it, and your ass isn't unlynchable like usual

[Furcolow]

bookmark to myself to re-read from fate's reads

[chesskid3]

ok I skimmed that, that's the best i'm going to do with it.

How do CKD/VPB/Vezok get townreads without any mention from you.

[Plum]

plum is so scum, and for the same reason I'm suspicious of TBM. Pushing policy lynching, but only if the town won't turn on her? Scum.

If we have half a Town of players willing to policy lynch to make their point about the lynching system and half who don't, we could end up with policy lynches which don't do the job they're supposed to do. If it would take one policy lynch to basically guaranteed keep Town from acting like unreliable loose cannons, fine. If that won't work, we ought to avoid trying that specific system of enforcement.

[chesskid3]

I'm cool with a PL on Furcolow just for the sake of killing him before he has a chance to screw things up if town/killing scum if he is scum.
Like seriously if this guy is alive endgame, he's going to just start fucking shooting like crazy, or be stupid and end up shooting town players with scum when this turns into a shootout.

[Furcolow]

ok I skimmed that, that's the best i'm going to do with it.

How do CKD/VPB/Vezok get townreads without any mention from you.

did you see the part where i mentioned reading the entire game on my phone?

plum is so scum, and for the same reason I'm suspicious of TBM. Pushing policy lynching, but only if the town won't turn on her? Scum.

If we have half a Town of players willing to policy lynch to make their point about the lynching system and half who don't, we could end up with policy lynches which don't do the job they're supposed to do. If it would take one policy lynch to basically guaranteed keep Town from acting like unreliable loose cannons, fine. If that won't work, we ought to avoid trying that specific system of enforcement.

You are trying to get the town split on an issue
We are following VPB's plan
You are to uncloak, and act protown, or be put on a short leash of fiery plasma
i hope it's all wifom from you. i'm willing to give you one more chance, but i'm fairly sure if we killed you it would be cash $ for the town

[Furcolow]

I'm cool with a PL on Furcolow just for the sake of killing him before he has a chance to screw things up if town/killing scum if he is scum.
Like seriously if this guy is alive endgame, he's going to just start fucking shooting like crazy, or be stupid and end up shooting town players with scum when this turns into a shootout.

how about you go read eusurioseptus's game in which i caught both scum in a 5 player lylo
not like you actually read anything, anyways
i wish i didn't have a town read on you

[Feysal]

I was doing it to get the "your base is under attack" message to Feysal, basically. I wanted to see if he would attack me, and I believe if he was actually town he would, and he didn't, so he is on top of my scum list.

Furcolow... you are an idiot, so I'll entertain the thought that you might actually believe you can scumhunt by shooting at random people and provoking them to shoot back. This is not going to work. Firstly, because you just gave away your whole plan, giving any scum free rain to shoot back at you. Secondly, because you are not in fact looking for scum with this test, you are testing whether your targets have more sense and self control than you. And we already know the answer to that question, don't we, so there is really no point in you running around shooting at people. Is there?

Simply put:

knock that shit off.

Spoiler: Actions cycle 1

Actions cycle 1

Furcolow

PlasmaPistol: Feysal (139), 3 damage
Move: C2 (139)

chesskid3

PlasmaWhip: curiouskarmadog (140), 5 damage
Move: B2 (141)

Gammagooey

Move: B3 (143)

Fate

PlasmaWhip: vezokpiraka (197), 5 damage
Move: A2 (266)

vezokpiraka

Special ability active: global recharge time -1 day (215, 235, 237)
EMP: Gammagooey (268)