Mini 14 ~ Mafia Holographica (Game Over!)

[Feysal]

You guys.
Plum's in A3. Process of elimination.

Why don't you share how you arrived at this conclusion? Plum could be at A3 for all I know, or could have been there and moved away, but I don't see why she would have to be there.

There you go. She needs to explain why she's in A3 or die. I see no legitimate reason to be hanging up there.

If Plum started from A2, and was going to B3 like you said she should, then it makes perfect sense for her to be in A3.

You know what my problem with the Plum case is? I saw no reason why she should be scum early on, in fact she seemed rather townish to me. This whole case started from one thing only, the fact that she is cloaked. I can sort of see why Fate would jump at that, and to your credit you did not jump on board then. It was not until the explosion in A1 that it seemed likely she would be scum, and it was far from obvious to me that Plum was responsible for it. You suspected Plum immediately after the explosion, without even exploring other possibilities first. Why? Just now, you accepted Gammagooey's unexplained process of elimination that Plum had to be in A3. Why?

Also, remember it was Fate who pointed out Plum being cloaked and started the whole uncloak or else train? And now you say Fate and Plum are scum together because Fate is reacting to the pressure on Plum, when it was Fate who started that push and has kept it up consistently? If you think they are bussing right off the bat, say so, but it makes very little sense to me.

I'm not at all certain of Fate being scum, and I don't think he is wrong to have doubts about you. I have them too. Fate may be wrong to act on them though.

Feysal, stop rolefishing and start scumhunting. I am deadly serious about this. The ONLY way I would want a massclaim is if it was just limited to the three people that could have shot the northwest, but then that really isn't a massclaim at all.

Rolefishing? I suggested discussion on mass claiming, since we are obviously causing accidental damage with our abilities. More discussion does not scum make. And you say you are serious? So am I. I will not change my playstyle just to please you. I find it hard to get accurate reads early in game, and this game is only 60 hours old. Instead, I'm trying to make sense of the mechanics and using them as my scum hunting tools. If you don't like it, that's your problem.

[Feysal]

Explain this then:
1. chesskid did not lose his shield. Nor did he get any damage. If I shot south from my North position, then I would have hit chesskid.
2. It was clear in Vi's post that I did not hit chesskid at all. It seems to vaguely hint that I might have hit Plum though as per the following quote:

>VasudeVa fires a quick blast south! It doesn't seem to have hit anything.

What makes you think I hit chesskid then?

Easy. I don't think you hit chesskid3. Remember this?

Wait, how did chesskid3 lose his shield? VasudeVa's EMP was not supposed to have hit anything.

I suppose when you fire a weapon in a general direction, there is no guarantee of hitting anyone. chesskid3, Furcolow and me were all south of you, you could've hit any one of us, so there would have to be some random factor involved. It is possible you could've hit Plum though, and that is interesting.

I don't think so. Mine is named ElectroMagnetic Pulse, as it seems to be the case for vezok. Deals 1 damage, disables shields and supports. I was assuming that Plum's cloak is a Support ability of somesort. If I did hit her and caused the 1 damage she has, but she's still cloaked then I'm not sure anymore. I'll ask Vi.

It could be a special ability, like you said. That would be interesting, since scum should not be able to have those if they want to keep their factional weapon. So, if we can prove Plum is using a special ability, that would be a strong indication of her being town.

Here is how we could do it. All we need to know is whether Plum was hit by your EMP. If she was and remains cloaked, then the cloak could not have been a support ability. Logically, if Plum uncloaks and reveals her position is somewhere on column 2, then she should be town.

Further, if my shot today succeeds, that will confirm vezokpiraka's special ability, confirming him town. He can then confirm your account of how the EMP works, and we can be sure that Plum's cloak is a special ability. That would rule out two suspects by tomorrow... not bad for mere mechanics and setup discussion, if it works that is.

[vezokpiraka]

Plum took damage form the explosion in A3. Probably.

Let's do this again.

EMP to A3

[Feysal]

That explosion should have caused 2 HP of damage, and Plum only took 1.

Also, could we maybe start asking questions first and shoot only if we're unhappy with the responses? I know, we're not seeing who else could've caused the explosion in A1, I don't either, but as long as Plum has a chance of being town and there is a way to test that without shooting her full of holes, I'd prefer waiting for 24 hours to give her a chance.

[VP Baltar]

If Plum started from A2, and was going to B3 like you said she should, then it makes perfect sense for her to be in A3.

Yeah, I considered that. See, the thing is that you shouldn't say aloud excuses for the scum. Let them find their own ways out of explaining things. They make mistakes, especially under pressure.

You suspected Plum immediately after the explosion, without even exploring other possibilities first. Why? Just now, you accepted Gammagooey's unexplained process of elimination that Plum had to be in A3. Why?

Because it is the most logical explanation. I've already explained that I think scum having a hidden weapon while they are visible is unbalanced in their favor. Cloaked scum with hidden weapons makes perfect sense however. I don't know what Gamma's PoE is, but he's my strongest town read at the moment and I trust him not to be lying. He could be wrong, but odds are he's going to explain it anyhow. No sense in not pressuring Plum.

Also, remember it was Fate who pointed out Plum being cloaked and started the whole uncloak or else train? And now you say Fate and Plum are scum together because Fate is reacting to the pressure on Plum, when it was Fate who started that push and has kept it up consistently?

Eh, I think Fate isn't really pushing plum that hard. He did mention the cloak thing first, but it could be distancing rather than bussing. He's certainly putting very little real pressure on her, choosing to shoot me inexplicably instead. Also, Fate seems the type of scum to bus from what I know of him, so its' definitely not out of the question.

Fate may be wrong to act on them though.

May be? I'm not saying I'm above reproach, but no one has even explained why I'm scummy at all. If you're going to shoot someone, you better have a damn good reason. I don't think Fate has any reason whatsoever other than he doesn't like me pressuring him.

Here is how we could do it. All we need to know is whether Plum was hit by your EMP. If she was and remains cloaked, then the cloak could not have been a support ability. Logically, if Plum uncloaks and reveals her position is somewhere on column 2, then she should be town.

I'm not following here. Even if you confirm her cloak is a special ability, the Gamma Ray has not been fired yet. Isn't the point that scum can only use one special ability at a time? Or am I missing something? How does this eliminate Plum from the scum list?

[inHimshallibe]

So, I've been reading the coordinates the wrong way.

I think ckd is less town than gamma for their conversation on the item, especially when not coming to grips with Probtown reads getting preferential treatment. Seems a little bit, "but that's UNFAIR" type scum deal.

Plum, decloak or die.

We also need to kill Fate, as he's scum firing in the name of this game's savior when we have plenty of capable people to do the trick. We can't allow him more shots, as it is obvious what he is doing - just getting as much damage in before he dies while putting up false bravado to stave away shots at him.

[Feysal]

I'm not following here. Even if you confirm her cloak is a special ability, the Gamma Ray has not been fired yet. Isn't the point that scum can only use one special ability at a time? Or am I missing something? How does this eliminate Plum from the scum list?

In the sample mafia role PM, under the description of the Gamma Pulse, it is said that "you may not pick up or equip special abilities while you hold this ability". The way I understood this, scum cannot even carry the Gamma Pulse if they want a special ability, so if Plum is using a special ability, she cannot have the Gamma Pulse. Now, it may be possible for scum to get a special ability at the start by random, but they could still not use it without dropping the Gamma Pulse. And given how great that weapon is, causing massive damage and being able to fire secretly, I don't see why any scum would throw it away willingly.

[VP Baltar]

I'm not following here. Even if you confirm her cloak is a special ability, the Gamma Ray has not been fired yet. Isn't the point that scum can only use one special ability at a time? Or am I missing something? How does this eliminate Plum from the scum list?

In the sample mafia role PM, under the description of the Gamma Pulse, it is said that "you may not pick up or equip special abilities while you hold this ability". The way I understood this, scum cannot even carry the Gamma Pulse if they want a special ability, so if Plum is using a special ability, she cannot have the Gamma Pulse. Now, it may be possible for scum to get a special ability at the start by random, but they could still not use it without dropping the Gamma Pulse. And given how great that weapon is, causing massive damage and being able to fire secretly, I don't see why any scum would throw it away willingly.

What if another buddy is simply holding the Gamma Pulse at the moment? I agree that plum wouldn't drop it for cloaking...but I don't see why another buddy couldn't have it while she uses cloak.

[Gammagooey]

Feysal you've asked about why I didn't take damage from vezok's EMP, for a massclaim, and although I'm pretty sure it actually isn't chesskid's not taking damage from VV COULD have been role stuffs. All of that is role related shenanigans that don't need to be talked about right now.
I WILL give you this much though because it's not role-related: VV could have hit chesskid with that direction shot but almost certainly missed like I did in the demo.

[Feysal]

What if another buddy is simply holding the Gamma Pulse at the moment? I agree that plum wouldn't drop it for cloaking...but I don't see why another buddy couldn't have it while she uses cloak.

See, I don't think this is how it works. The Gamma Pulse is a factional weapon, and I expect all scum members share access to it. If one of them were to drop it, the other scum would keep it, but the one player who dropped it would have lost it forever. If Plum had dropped it, how could she ever get it back?

Feysal you've asked about why I didn't take damage from vezok's EMP, for a massclaim, and although I'm pretty sure it actually isn't chesskid's not taking damage from VV COULD have been role stuffs. All of that is role related shenanigans that don't need to be talked about right now.

First, and I said this already, I did not ask for a mass claim, I asked for discussion on mass claiming. If we keep playing solo and firing EMP's blindly, we're far more likely to rob other townies of beneficial abilities than hurting the scum. This discussion has to be had sooner or later, and unless we want to stop firing EMP's at every direction, sooner would be preferable.

Second, the role shenanigans, as you call them, are directly related to finding out who was behind the explosion in A1. Here is how all these things are intertwined.

1. When vezokpiraka fired his EMP at you, there was a loud pop but no damage. When he fired east, there was also a loud pop, and VasudeVa lost his shield, taking no damage. My conclusion from this is that vezokpiraka hit VasudeVa, and the loud pop is related to the loss of an ability. In VasudeVa's case, his shield, in your case perhaps something else. My theory is that the EMP causes damage only if there is no shield or support ability it could cancel.

2. If vezokpiraka hit VasudeVa, he could not have hit Plum, and that rules out one possible way she could've been injured.

3. If Plum had been in A3, she should've taken 2 HP of damage, not 1. We have no explanation for how she could've resisted the 1 HP of damage, so this is a point against Plum having been in A3.

4. This leaves only one possible way Plum could have been injured, and that is the EMP fired by VasudeVa. If this is the case and we can confirm it by having Plum decloak somewhere on column 2, that rules her out as a suspect.

Given how many people speak of shooting at Plum, these role shenanigans need to be talked about right now. If they prove Plum innocent, we can save a townie with a powerful ability that could help us. Whether you have a pro-town read or not, you don't get to dictate when it is time to talk about something like this.

In any case, the ball is in Plum's court. If my theory is correct, she should be able to prove the nature of her ability by decloaking and revealing whether she took damage from VasudeVa's EMP.

[Gammagooey]

Siiiiiiiiiiiiigh Feysal.
So I think this should be worth it one way or another.

Plasma Burst: Northeast sector

[curiouskarmadog]

I'd be pretty surprised if he's scum at this point, but Gamma should take the module because I think he's town that will use it more responsibly. You're my boy ckd, but you have to calm yourself sometimes.

if I felt like it would have helped us (the town), I would have picked it up. I wanted more conversation as to who should pick it up..and I am not sure why it was just between Gamma and I. I get pissed in games...usually more pissed as town, but been known to fake it (or geninuely) as scum. either way comments like "Scum typically "overreact" and (this is new for me) "underreact"" annoy the piss out of me. I think there are scum motivations behind this type of attack on Day 1....or any day for that matter.

in regards to responsibly...meh...the fact that I didnt pick it up should say something...but I get scum in my position (ie amount of heat I have) probably wouldnt either.

I think ckd is less town than gamma for their conversation on the item, especially when not coming to grips with Probtown reads getting preferential treatment. Seems a little bit, "but that's UNFAIR" type scum deal.

ahhhh.....now here is an interesting post...

lets say I was saying "that not fair"...what is scummy about it? and for the other side of the coin how was I saying "its not fair"...what the fuck i was saying was that is claim to picking it up was ridiculous for day 1...had nothing to do with fairness.

this looks like an attempt join the CKD hate wagon, without actually having a real reason....soooo...I want more explanation now...

Quote tag fixed. ~Vi

[curiouskarmadog]

Mod please fix quote tag.

[Fate]

Eh, I think Fate isn't really pushing plum that hard. He did mention the cloak thing first, but it could be distancing rather than bussing. He's certainly putting

very little real pressure on her, choosing to shoot me inexplicably instead.

Also, Fate seems the type of scum to bus from what I know of him, so its' definitely not out of the question.

SPARK SAP: PLUM

MOVE: WEST

A2 IS NOW COVERED FOR PLUMSCUM

are you cloaked
cloaking is cheating
this isn't halo yo

GHOSTS ARE SCUM ARE SNIPERS IN THE DARK.

POLICY FIND PLUM.

POLICY KILL PLUM.

IF ANYONE HAS AOE EFFECTS NOWS THE TIME TO SHOOT.

ANYWAY what I was going to say was CKD is probably scum based on his "lets just play like sraight up mafia lolz" ANTI-FUN SCUMTELL FTW.

CKD/PLUM/WILDCARD (VV/VP)

VP has to explain why he thinks I'm scum before I can get a read.

Chesskid, continue with the CKD killing.

Fate, return to FE it calls you.

YES SIR

As far as I know Plum didn't uncloak.

Vote: Plum

Chess I'm referring to the lil fight you tow are having.

I have moar important games to attend to at the moment, I won't be actionig until tomorrow nght

IS IT MORE LIKELY THAT VP IS NOT READING TEH FUCKING GAME, OR THAT HE IS NOT TRYING TO ACTUALLY GET A READ ON MY SLOT.


LYNCH THAT FUCKING SCUMBAG AFTER PLUM DIES. I CHOOSE TO SHOOT AT VP INSTEAD OF PLUM, BECAUSE

I DONT KNOW WHERE THE FUCK PLUM IS

[Fate]

We also need to kill Fate, as he's scum firing in the name of this game's savior when we have plenty of capable people to do the trick. We can't allow him more shots, as it is obvious what he is doing - just getting as much damage in before he dies while putting up false bravado to stave away shots at him.

^MORE LIKELY MISGUIDED TOWN FALLING FOR VP'S BULLSHIT THAN SCUM.

BUT KEEP AN EYE ON HIM. INSHALLBE

[Fate]

Eh, I think Fate isn't really pushing plum that hard. He did mention the cloak thing first, but it could be distancing rather than bussing. He's certainly putting very little real pressure on her, choosing to shoot me inexplicably instead. Also, Fate seems the type of scum to bus from what I know of him, so its' definitely not out of the question.

QUOTED TWICE FOR EMPHASIS.

NOTE HOW HE COVERS ALL HIS BULLSHIT BASES IN THIS POSTFROM:

"eh I don't think Fate is really pushing Plum hard AKA hes just distancing"

AND

"even if he is pushing Plum hard he's as busser as scum so its no town tell"

BULLSHIT

MISLYNCH

PUSHING

[VP Baltar]

And yet you haven't given a single reason you think I'm more worthy of being shot than Plum. You don't need to know where plum is to target her. If you fail, it simply proves where she's not.

Feel free to rage post and type in caps all day, my point stands.

[VasudeVa]

I'm a bit confused though, people seem to think that I shot down from North and hit Plum. I think I moved to NW first

before

I shot down to W/SW.

@Mod: Can I get confirmation on what actually happened?

(If it was already cleared up somewhere, feel free to point and laugh. I'm not seeing it anywhere in Vi's ISO though.)

[Gammagooey]

*Points*

>VasudeVa fires a quick blast south! It doesn't seem to have hit anything.

stuff stuff stuff stuff

>Processing movement...

[inHimshallibe]

I don't have a "melee range" move. I can fire down the A and 3 alleys, if that is what is best.

[Gammagooey]

I already hit your region with 2 damage so if Plum's there (and i'm pretty sure she is) we'll see it. You MIGHT be able to do what Fate (in A2 against Plum, not Baltar) did with a linear weapon but I'd ask Vi before trying it.

[VasudeVa]

*Points*

>VasudeVa fires a quick blast south! It doesn't seem to have hit anything.

stuff stuff stuff stuff

>Processing movement...

.__.

Oh. Well.. that's embarassing. *awkward laughter*

[VP Baltar]

Vas, it's time to put the pipe down bro. The movement-shot thing has been explained like four times now :p

[Feysal]

I guess all I can do right now is return to C2. I double checked VP's plan, and that's where I should be, I went too far east.

>

Move(C2)

;

No sign of Plum since the start of day. For her sake, she better uncloak this cycle. Missing one chance to do so is still credible, but missing it twice would require a real stretch of the imagination.

[Plum]

Unless she's conveniently confirming herself as scum for us she's either in A1 or A3, so don't bother.

Hm? Why would me being elsewhere indicate in any way that I'm scum?

@Plum: So...what, we're just supposed to 'take your word' that you are Town, you can't shoot people and aren't responsible for the NW incident?

You don't have to, and you obviously seem disinclined to do so - but having been asked, I tell. You can judge it how you will.

Re: Plum - we should just kill her now. She can obviously submit weapon attacks and movements secretly. I think if a visible scum player on the board could just secretly attack whoever, it'd be a pretty huge advantage to them. Therefore, I fully believe it was Plum that did this. Unless anyone has a reasonable objection, I'm going to shoot her today full blast.

Plum tell us your location immediately. The more you stall, the more guilty you look.

Completely not in line with your own plan at all. I'm certainly willing to uncloak, but you shooting me without Town consensus or in conjunction with the lynch-cycle plan isn't going to be helpful all around.

If Plum started from A2, and was going to B3 like you said she should, then it makes perfect sense for her to be in A3.

Actually I thought the plan was for me to be going to C2

Conked out most of the afternoon but my uncloaking and move actions have just been submitted.