Mini 653 - Family Guy Mafia - Game over
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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Unvote, vote: GhostWriterfor being so arrogant as to think I would make this account just for him! Plus I'm a pianist, and as everyone knows there is a silent war between vocalists and instrumentalists
P.S. OMGUS"Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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...Could this possibly mean that just because a certain player's vote doesn't show up on the official vote count doesn't mean the vote is ACTUALLY void when it comes lynching time?Be aware that the numbers may be misleading when it comes to votes."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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I personally think Xtoxm looks to have an overly gung-ho, possibly scummy attitude about LlamaFluff's "disposability." Xtoxm has no idea about Llama's role other than the voting restriction, and yet calls him out as a "safe lynch." He says that Llama has an anti-town role. You know what is REALLY anti-town? Suggesting that the town, whose main advantage in the game of mafia is the opportunity to lynch scum every day, waive that privilege and lynch someone just for having a voting restriction. And they "might catch scum!"
Forget scumhunting, forget looking for tells, let's just go for random chance! That always works!
I'm not going to vote for Xtoxm because I don't want him at L-1 right now. But I'd like to hear him talk more about this tactic of his. I'd like to hear him explain how it's not a huge mistake."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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Sorry, I'm here. I'm excited to jump right into a real mafia game, but I often find myself not posting as often as I'd like when I feel it goes over my head. I apologize, and I'll try to contribute on a more regular basis.
Goborage looks strange to me. He defends himself against allegations of character claiming...then proceeds to all but character claim in the very same post ("Being Cleveland is just a coincidence.") Since we've already been through how any character could potentially be a villain, especially in an essentially villain-free show such as Family Guy, it almost seems like scum excited to make a safe but of course uncontestable claim like Cleveland, a character that seems minimally suspicious.
His posts haven't been very meaty so far, either. He says he doesn't get the bandwagon on xtoxm and says that xtoxm makes some pretty good points, but doesn't add anything to that. Maybe he doesn't think anything needs to be added, but based on the current controversy and the fact that the controversy between Llama and xtoxm is the hot topic right now, you'd think maybe he'd have something to contribute. (I know, I know, I'm being hypocritical, since I've barely posted.)
Llama seems to have been a bit overbearing. Maybe it's just because he doesn't have a vote and he wants to make sure he has influence in the town, or maybe it's his playstyle of choice. But to me, he appears overly critical of people who don't join his bandwagons or think they're a bit hasty. I don't like the things xtoxm has said either, so I agree with him on that. But methinks Llama was pressing a mite too hard. (And he called me a "he"! But...mafiascum is genderblind, right?) But regardless, Llama's probing for input and discussion, and from what I've seen, accepts a good defense when it's given.
Xtoxm was the scummiest candidate in my mind for a while. I'm definitely not finding him particularly pro-town in his suggestions. But I think we can learn a lot more by examining the people on or off his bandwagon and their reasoning, or lack thereof. So for now I'm going tounvoteandvoteforGoborage. Expect to hear a little more from me from now on. I'm a little shy, but I'll get warmed up to this game. Especially since it's Family Guy!"Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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It's the "coincidence" part that throws me.
coincidence (n): a striking occurrence of two or more events at one time apparently by mere chance: Our meeting in Venice was pure coincidence.goborage wrote:Not a character claim. I suppose the first quote didn't really make sense (it was something along the lines of "this is my house"). #2 being Cleveland was coincidence. I just felt that that needed to be said.
The two events here would be:
a.) he randomly selected a Cleveland quote in his first post
b.) but he also happens to BE Cleveland
So, I'm thinking one of two possibilities:
a.) this is exactly what he means
b.) he has used the word coincidence to refer to another thing. In this case I want to hear from him what he DID mean, because I don't understand what else could possibly be coinciding in this context."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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Let's keep in mind that this also depends on the roles of other players. Maybe somebody has two votes, like a Politician type role, to balance a voting restriction like Llama's out. Maybe there's a vig. These things could either hurt or help the town, but I think it's safe to assume that Llama's not the only one who could influence the way the game turns out.
P.S. I'm definitely not asking anyone to claim, so don't accuse me of it. I'm just saying that Llama's and Xtoxm's number games only work in the simplest possible setup."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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So with the restriction, the mafia's less likely to NK you, yet the town's apparently more likely to lynch you.Inspector Godot wrote:The only concern I have with Llama's role at the moment is that it could be a very good way of getting the mafia to avoid night killing you. After all, if it benefits them in LYLO then why would they kill you when they could kill someone else and possibly get lucky?"Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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EBWOP. As far as him being Mafia, yeah, you're right, it'd be harder to catch him because there'd be no suspicion placed on him simply for not being NK'ed. But we can still look for scumtells just like anybody else. No one's exempt. But that's obvious, no breakthrough logic here..."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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I'm not saying that whether or not goborage is Cleveland matters as far as damning him or clearing him. It's the timing and obvious hypocrisy of the claim, if it is indeed a claim, that reeks of scum to me."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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I didn't see goborage's initial Cleveland quote as any sort of claim. It was when he said that being Cleveland was a coincidence that raised a red flag for me. I don't know about Llama. I think in the beginning he was just trying to find some topic of discussion to pull the posting out of random vote stage. But I myself am much more confused by his "coincidence" post, which he has yet to respond to. Poof, he's gone."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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Oh, I'm really sorry. I didn't realize that the "You're what the Spaniards call El Terrible" quote was also from Cleveland. This answers my question about what he meant when he said that being Cleveland was a coincidence. So I retract that part of my pressure. Still, though, I find goborage scummy because of his one-line contributions and unwillingness to elaborate. I don't know what caused him to disappear, but I guess it's probably for a genuine reason since he seems to be actually gone, not lurking. Hopefully his replacement will contribute something."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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I'm liking that goborage was replaced by someone who actually has something to say.
unvote
I am starting to raise an eyebrow about Llama. I had found him pretty town so far, but now I'm going to have to reread all his posts given what's been said recently. Now that I realize that goborage's "#2" was talking about QUOTE number two, a quote I didn't even notice, I'm going to have to look at this whole ordeal in a different light. Llama's pressure may be a bit opportunist. I remember that Llama was running around screaming "Vote xtoxm!" and then I charged in saying "I don't like goborage" and then Llama was running around screaming "Heeeey, you're right! I forgot all about goborage! Vote goborage!" Maybe it reeks a bit of hypocrisy for me to be saying this at a time when I appear to be doing the exact same thing, but most of my suspicion of goborage has been alleviated by his replacement, and I can't help but wonder about Llama now that it's clear that Llama had more information than me, yet still held onto my ignorance-based finger-pointing.
The ONLY reason I thought goborage had claimed was because I didn't notice that "You're what the Spaniards call El Terrible" was also a Cleveland quote, and THAT was the coincidence he was referring to. If Llama recognized this quote, and from his posts he clearly did, the whole "coincidence" thing should have been clear to him.
Yet of all the scummiest of the scummy here, it still seems that xtoxm takes the cake. Xtoxm's bandwagoning of Llama looks borderline FRANTIC! And his defense of goborage as town was admitedly based solely on a post goborage made saying that xtoxm brought up some pretty good points. And that somehow made goborage town? Just because he agreed with him? I especially didn't like the post when he said that lynching Llama based solely upon his voteless role would be beneficial to the town, and "...we might catch scum!" Might? Aren't we supposed to be maximizing our chances of catching scum by...I don't know...LOOKING for scum? Maybe Llama looked scummy to Xtoxm, but he didn't seem to care one way or another, nor did he contribute any evidence. It seemed to me he was actively protesting any scumhunting activities. How can that be good? He was the second scummiest on my list next to goborage, and now that goborage's replacement has cleared some things up for me, I'm afraid that the vote falls upon xtoxm.
vote xtoxm
I want to hear from both Llama and Xtoxm."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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I was just thinking earlier today when I was having a snack that BG looked suspicious, but I hadn't noticed the fact that she had avoided the xtoxm wagon until I read you guys' post. Good snooping. It does appear she had a tendency to lightly waltz around accusing him, being very soft on him in general, always preferring to keep the limelight on other players. I also don't like her complete 180. While I too changed my mind, I did it because new information came to light that I hadn't realized before. She seemed to do it for absolutely no reason, or perhaps just because she doesn't want to be alone in her accusation!
I'd be OK with either an xtoxm or BG wagon, as well. If we lynch one and he/she turns out scum, it'll shed more light on the other."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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You may not like reborn's case against you, but in my opinion, it's not half as bad as xtoxm's. And I've seen possible connections between BG, xtoxm, and goborage.
1. Xtoxm seemed to like goborage for no apparent reason. He has been questioned several times on why he thinks that goborage is town, and the only reason he's given is that he likes his posts. Especially the one about Xtoxm "bringing up some pretty good points." They were getting pretty snuggly before gobo got replaced. Then reborn immediately did what looks like a tad of distancing --not TOO much, but just enough, when he made one little measly comment about not being sure if he liked xtoxm, but subsequently moved on to talk about other people.
2. BG and xtoxm's possible association has just recently come up. I think it's a legitimate concern. I definitely think it needs close attention, and I don't agree with Llama's preference for looking at reborn instead. Any case is going to look like BS to you if it's against you, but you and only you know for sure that they're wrong. (Keep in mind that this is assuming innocence, a dangerous thing to assume!) I think all of these little threads need to be followed.
If I've missed something glaring, please let me know."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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What can I say in response to being downright suspicious? I was so sure goborage had claimed. I believe I was the first person to try to reevaluate goborage when everybody else had their sights on xtoxm. Maybe my suspicions of a name claim were misplaced, but I was still actively suspicious of him, not just bandwagoning. As for bandwagon jumping, I could no longer believe that goborage had claimed after I realized what his "coincidence" post was about. As I said many times before, I did not understand that "You're what the Spaniards call El Terrible" was another Cleveland quote, so I didn't understand what "#2 being Cleveland was just a coincidence" could possibly mean other than goborage was Cleveland. So I don't think it was that crazy for me to bandwagon jump.
And yeah, you're right, I'm not a very good scumhunter. But I am trying. And maybe that makes me look like I'm posting a whole lot of nothing, trying to appear helpful when I'm not, but I don't think that's an excuse to just sit back and plain old not even try to be helpful.
I'm going to have to do a major reread now. I'll be back with my major suspicion of the day and a detailed analysis of why. No, no, I can't just leave you hanging like this. It's IG. I shall return."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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I believe the Inspector is dirty. He's stayed under my radar for too long. When I examine his (far from numerous, far from high-content) posts, many of them strike me wrong.
More info? Bringing up the possibility of Llama being a power role? Fishing, anyone? Perhaps he's scum speculating whether or not Llama might be a worthwhile NK after all. But wait...there's more.Does Family Guy even have villains? The Chicken is the only one that comes to mind. The whole coming out and telling us of a vote restriction seems suspicious to me. I want more info. Does it count and just not show up on the board? Because a voteless player would be useless unless they were a power role or scum.
What does this even mean? If Llama is town and his claim is true, this really doesn't mean anything at all! If IG thinks Llama is scum, why not just say that? And as for "it could be a very good way of getting the mafia to avoid NKing you," I don't like the sound of that at all. If IG is town, he's practically giving advice to scum. Even if he thinks it's obvious advice, why do it? First he seemed to be toying with the idea that Llama could be a power role. Now he's speculating about the best NK. Pro-town? I think not.The only concern I have with Llama's role at the moment is that it could be a very good way of getting the mafia to avoid night killing you. After all, if it benefits them in LYLO then why would they kill you when they could kill someone else and possibly get lucky?
Ah, the "maybe Llama is a power role" suggestion rears its ugly head once again. Methinks IG shouldn't say everything that comes to his head.If he's a power role I wouldn't dislike it. But if he's an ordinary vanilla townie, then it just seems like a waste. I'd rather have a townie NK'd then a power role.
Unless he's scum. In which case he should keep talking, and keep making it more and more obvious.
vote Inspector Godot"Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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I didn't say they always have safeclaims. I don't know much about how often they have safeclaims, but I've read some minigames, such as Roald Dahl Mafia, where they had safeclaims. Honestly I was just asking a strategic question. I thought I made it clear that I said that scum OFTEN have safeclaims IN THEME GAMES. I wasn't even necessarily talking about THIS theme game. I was asking about the advantages of breadcrumbing in a theme game where scum often have safeclaims. I guess I should have known that asking this would paint a target on my ass, but I'd still like to know the answer."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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I think my reasons for my vote on IG are pretty sound. His posts do little to help the town, and almost seem to be advice to scum half the time. It's not like I think scum would deliberately come across as helping scum in the daytime, but they might find themselves less careful about giving information to scum. Town has to walk a thin rope during the daytime. You have to help your fellow townspeople, but you also have to keep some information to yourself, lest you inadvertently give power to the scum. Scum might tend to be a little less careful on the balancing act."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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No, he wasn't advising other scum, he was just speculating about information that might help the scum. He was just being very...un-careful, something that town can't afford to be. I pointed them out in my case against IG in post 292. He too much talking about power roles and who the mafia probably would or wouldn't NK."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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I'd always been a little wary of him, but I thought he hadn't posted enough to get a clear read. When StD brought IG up in conjunction with his suspicions of me, it reminded me of the fact that I was letting him go unnoticed (by me). I thought I'd give his posts another read, so I displayed just his posts and read them. That's when I noticed all his weird anti-town speculation."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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Well, I can understand how you don't like the excuse of "I'm not a very good scumhunter," but I don't know what else to say. I'm contributing all I can. If it doesn't look like enough, that must be why, but I'm trying to do better.
Beyond that, I don't understand how IG's power role speculation being "accidental" matters much. It's anti-town. If someone's a power role, they can out themselves when they want to. And IG still says he believes he should say everything he thinks. Isn't this game about working together while keeping SOME ideas and speculation to yourself, lest you help the scum? It doesn't sound pro-town to me to suggest that everything IG thinks should be right out in the open, for scum and town alike to read."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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Well, xtoxm, I think IG looks scummier than anyone else. Why would I not vote for him? I already presented my case. Maybe the reason I find him suspicious is "trivial" to you or thinktank but for me he just seems all-around anti-town."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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hello family guy mafia. i will be fully back in 3 days. i am still trying to stay off my left hand and now i am on hydrocodone. so thinking is not an option, haha. i'll still check in and read the games i'm in though."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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RestFermata Mafia Scum
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OK. Here I am. A lot has happened. Yeah, I always kind of assumed that Llama might have some other role besides voteless vanilla town. I just didn't want to pull an IG and step right out and say it. I tend to believe Llama, and I think 5 hours is plenty of time for a short trade of PM's about the role.
I was mostly looking at reborn when I was reading the thread daily in my hazy, Lortab-clouded stupor, but now he's claimed. I could see Stewie as an SK, but maybe it's bastard moddery. I' not sure. I don't think he's the lynch of the day.
E_K saying "hey, anybody want to lynch RF because of her safeclaim comment?" seems pretty weak. Even the way she phrased it seems strange. It almost seems like she chose me for a lynch andthencame up with reasoning. I was aware when I typed that strategic question up that I had to phrase it right or I'd be painting a target on my ass, but I wanted to ask anyway. E_K and thinktank seem to be the only ones who thought it was scummy. But I'm biased, because it's me.
Oh, and the way E_K reacted to Xtoxm suggesting that maybe Llama could be scum that knows Peter isn't in the game. That is a similar conjecture to the one I made about safeclaims in minigames, yet E_K didn't harass him about it in the same way. I think it could be because she doesn't really find it scummy; she's just looking for a reason to jump on somebody. And that's scummy.
Now, about scum. Let's see.
RestFermata - town. Heh. But I'm not here to convince you of that; I'm here to hunt scum.
Xtoxm - claimed lover (maybe scum, but shouldn't lynch D1.) I don't have a problem with Xtoxm's willingness to take one for the town. Maybe it is a really bad idea to lynch a lover D1, but just because someone doesn't realize that or sees it in a different way doesn't mean they're scum.
BG - claimed lover. I think she may be scum, but I'm with popular consensus - I really don't think we should lynch her now.
Kmd - I think he's town. Can't be 100% sure of course. But the things he's said seem pretty genuine to me. He seems to be a good scumhunter.
reborn - Claimed inventor. I don't know what to think about Stewie. The role seems fitting for him, but so would SK. Nevertheless I'm more worried about the mafia (the FCC?) than a lone killer, and role speculation alone isn't a good reason for a lynch. I thought he was suspicious, but right now it's just going to manifest itself in an IGMEOY.
kloud - I don't know. He hasn't posted in a while because of RL issues. He was active in pointing fingers at BG. Until he got swamped with school, he was pretty active, and I saw him as pretty town, but I haven't heard anything from him in light of recent events so I have a hard time judging him. Pretty neutral for me atm.
IG - claimed bodyguard. I thought he was scummy, but I believe the claim. I think this character would be in the game. Could Cleveland be scum? Maybe. But IG isn't a prime suspect for me right now.
Llama - claimed random JOAT (voteless for now.) I believe it. I think he is town.
thinktank - I don't know. He's concise, but seems honest. Still, that seems like a pretty good strategy if you're scum. (WIFOM! WIFOM! I know!) Don't get too overblown, but don't spare the daggers. That way you can't get accused of being wishy-washy, soft, or emptily verbose. It seems like an easy way not to fall into your own traps. I don't feel like meta-ing right now, especially since TT isn't one of my prime suspects.
E_K - Leaning on the scummy side now! I was getting a pretty town vibe from her, but her recent actions rub me the wrong way, as I've mentioned.
GW - Leaning on the town side for me. I've never read anything that looked like scum from him, but nobody's exempt, of course.
StD - I am beginning to suspect his good posting might be the cover-up of experienced scum, but again, I'm not 100% sure. He replaced Crub, who FoSed me just for "being difficult." Also leaned town on babygirl, which seems silly. I have a hard time seeing any of her posts as being anything more than neutral at best. But whatever, just because someone has an unpopular opinion doesn't mean they're scum. And most of the real content has come from StD. Now, StD's posts are good and seem honest, but I am very scared of the idea of him being scum, because it seems like he could be getting away with it right under our noses. But that's just me. It's a fallacy to base your suspicions off the person in question's game experience if you don't think he actually posts scummy things. It's enough for my (fearful) eye to be on him as well, not enough for my vote.
I'm going to have to break down everything more, of course, but with the deadline approaching, I'mvotingforElvis_Knits."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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I have a role idea that I thought was more likely for Cleveland than bodyguard, based on an FG episode I saw, but that's just me. I don't understand the connection between Cleveland and a bodyguard. It might be kind of anti-town for me to share my idea, though, and also pretty baseless and speculative, since it's based on one scene of the show. If you all want to hear it, you'd have to ask."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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OK, well in my search I didn't find it. I think that Cleveland could be a miller. Maybe that's way out there, but when I first thought of Cleveland's role when goborage and LF's altercation popped the idea of Cleveland into my (obviously gullible) head, I thought of the scene where Joe shows Peter a machine that detains criminals. When Peter goes under it, it says "Warning: suspect" or something and then handcuffs it. But when Cleveland is going to try it, Joe warns him not to, but it's too late. Cleveland goes under it and it beats the crap out of him, saying "Warning: Minority suspect." So it made me think of miller. I dunno. Pretty speculative, like I said."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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Also some things about IG seem funny. Like,
OK, whatever. So he was right about the fact that gobo didn't claim Cleveland, and I was wrong. But he doesn't seem adamantly sure that gobo wasn't claiming. He "wanted to know if he did claim" so we could "move on." And this whole "have a real Cleveland step up and claim" thing seems so strange to me. I know that he doesn't want to claim at this moment, but it seems liek a bizarre response to me. I can't really pinpoint why. But if he thinks there's any chance in the world that someone was claiming Cleveland, as he seemingly did, then why didn't he care whether or not someone was claiming HIS character? I mean, imagine if gobo had actually said "Yeah, I'm Cleveland." Would the real Cleveland just say "Oh, that's nice. Thanks for getting this whole thing over with. Let's talk about Llama and Xtoxm now"?Inspector Godot wrote:If it is was a fake claim then we could have a real Cleveland step up and claim. But other then that I don't see much else to this whole thing. I just want to know if he did claim or not so we can put a rest to it and move on to other avenues of discussion, like this Llama/Xtoxm thing.
It was a long time ago, and IG obviously didn't believe that gobo was claiming. But the little doubt he seemed to have and the way he didn't seem to care about the idea that gobo might or might not claim seems so odd to me."Time forks endlessly toward innumerable futures. In one of them I am your enemy." —Jorge Luis Borges-
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