Mini 637: Xyl's Smalltown Plus - Game Over
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armlx Most JDTay-like
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I didn't know what I was talking about either.Also, post 43 looks like jibberish to me. Not in the sense that it's scummy, only in the sense that I don't know what on earth you are talking about. Hopefully you can reword it, and then I'll take my vote off you.....maybe Twisted Evil
This is P scummy. As is the lynch the best role.Also, I sincerely hope you aren't scum Has, as that last statement will be a death sentence for me if you are.
Anyways, I was just thinking about my last post - it doesn't make sense to lynch the most useful role, as once I assume that role, I'm up for a NK anyways. So nevermind.
However, lynching Iceman is a bad plan. We should SB lynch someone else, force Iceman to take the SB and use him to SB lynch someone else, and then actual lynch. We trade 1 essentiall random death (the first SB) for 4 lynches.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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Obviously support is required. My point still stands.icemanE wrote:
Assuming the entire town decides to follow you, that is. That is an awfully bold claim to make, especially considering that no one knows your alignment.armlx wrote:If you didn't take the SB, we would lynch you on the spot. Same as forcing someone to claim.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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If the SB or you is going to 1 for 1 instead of us getting lynches, I am down with that. If the poisoner is scum, thats a larger issue that can be dealt with assuming we don't fuck up today too badly.icemanE wrote:
This whole plan hinges on none of the day vig players being scum.armlx wrote:Oh wow, Poisoner is a day vig too? Gogo 5 lynches + 1 random death (counting Iceman as a "lynch" despite him presumably SBing).Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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armlx Most JDTay-like
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The SB is not a random kill, my point is the SB killing themself is effectively random.Also, if we go by armlx's six death plan, the random SB should be armlx just in case he is scum trying to manipulate the town in this case. That's just my opinion, though.
Also, other options to consider are forcing the poisoner to self vig as per Pie policy if we suspect them of being scum, and at the least do it tomorrow unless we are sure they are town to avoid being day killed out.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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armlx Most JDTay-like
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Thats what I'm saying. If icemanE is poisoned he will live to the end of the day, effectively preventing us from using the SB as an extra lynch.This doesn't make sense. If he is scum and gets a SB, he will DEFINATELY SB a townie (and one of the more useful ones I'd bet).Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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Both, I think Crazy is probably scum because he does not want to use his ability.@Armlx - do you really think Crazy is scum or do you just want the SB to use his ability?
And Alabaska, lynching me for proposing the plan amounts to "Too Townie".
That is true. Hell, the more we lynch, the more townies will die, so lets not do that either.WTF? The more kills that occur today, the more townies will die, period. Chances are obviously immensely better based on odds alone that more townies will die than scum - your suggestion is basically to carpetbomb the shit out of this game until we happen to kill scum, and in the process kill a bunch of townies.
If we kill 3 players today, we are less likely to hit scum in those 3 then we would be in lynches over 3 days as are no scum kills in between to thin the crowd. By that logic, we should just non-stop no lynch until LyLo as it thins the crowd even more. By arguing that it is better to not utilize as many pro-town kills as is possible, you should agree with the statement that doctors shouldn't protect randomly as it hurts the town's info flow. Do you think either of those is true?
You fail to realize that the scum's main weapon to win is night kills while ours is the lynch. How is maximizing ours while minimizing theirs a bad thing?
There is a reason vanilla 10-2 set ups with nights have never been won by town while vanilla 8-4s as nightless are fair.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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armlx Most JDTay-like
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Why is this relevant?Alabaska J wrote: Poisoner, do you have a secret ability?
No. If you take away in game talking (aka random the game) it doesn't change odds that much (10-2 goes from unfavorable to very poor), but taking away night kills does (8-4 goes from absolutely unwinnable to 50/50). Also, what you are saying that if you are scum you want to try to disable the town's way to win, which is p obvious and goes along with my statement.icemanE wrote: Also - the scum's main weapon is misleading the town into making poor decisions.
This is a good post.moo wrote: We're killing the most suspicious people. I'd rather have them dead early than be confusing us later when it's more stressful.
Why?cerberus3 wrote: Alabaska really needs to die. I don't care how.
icemanE, explain this to me: Why is SBing someone worse then going to night? Worst case scenario is SB is 1 for 1ing someone not scummy for someone scummy, same as lynch + night, only usually when that happens the not scummy person is 100% assured not scum as the mafia aren't going to kill their own members, while the SB is in no way confirmed. Now, the SB is even scummy. Talk about a bonus.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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armlx Most JDTay-like
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So the same as a generic lynch, only the town role that is lost to the "NK" isn't a info/protective role.If the SB is not scum, and we choose a target for him to kill, he will presumably follow what we say and kill that target - which means we kill a possible scum and lose a townie.
So the same as a correct lynch.If the SB IS scum, and we choose a target for him to kill, he will presumably ignore his advice and kill a townie of his choosing - which means we kill a scum but lose a townie.
I don't see whats wrong with that.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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armlx Most JDTay-like
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Referring to defending self with his role, the issue is roles and alignment in this game are in no way shape or form connected.How and why is this a bad thing?
What makes you sure of this dichotomy as opposed to both town or both scum?This post makes me think that either armlx is scum, or iceman is scum. I heavily doubt both can be scum at this point. Leaning towards armlx, though.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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armlx Most JDTay-like
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That is true of ANY lynch without cop results that are somehow confirmed.ZS wrote: And what I (and I presume Iceman) has been trying to say is that you do not know we are killing scum.
The person we choose to lynch might not necessarily be scum. Consider how absurd that argument is.
You act like the person we choose for them to kill will necessarily be scum.
And have you ever considered that scum might kill another scum just to dig that much deeper into the pro-town zone?
And you would bring up WIFOM in response to the plan. Saying scum can WIFOM their way out of something is never a valid reasoning, what you are basically saying is that a scum who plays to the optimal townie plan is likely to be viewed as town, which is true and there's nothing you can do about it based on valid logic as simply put the number of times that actually happens are so few and far between that if you keep lynching people for that reason you will lose more games then you win due to lynching townies out of fear of them actually being WIFOMing scum, aka "Too Townie". Scum will inevitably do something scummy or be caught via night action based info or the town will lose.
When the point is reached it is too dangerous to leave the poisoner alive if they are scum and their actions have not cleared them, I fully endorse lynching them to avoid that risk, but now is not the time to discuss this.
You have really high standards. Go back and think about every time you have lynched someone, have you really been 90% sure about them?By "good info" I mean 90% sure or better that they are scum.
And will people please stop Battle Maging the damn thread. It makes things so obnoxious to read. Its not that hard to put all your thoughts into one post.
So you are willing to lynch based on a logic fallacy?Alabaska J wrote:
I don't care. I think it is worth the precaution.armlx wrote:And Alabaska, lynching me for proposing the plan amounts to "Too Townie".Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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armlx Most JDTay-like
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I agree with that, but I don't agree with your "except in LyLo" qualifier. I was stating that even in LyLo deliberately misleading the town is a scum tell.How is it?
I stil think, misleading the town is a very good scum tell, misleading the town in order to protect yourself is an even better scum tell. I still think that subtly threatening people is a scum tell and since he's guilty of both.
No, I only act as if those who don't are confirmed scum. If "If A, then B" is true, it does not mean "If not A, then not B" is also true.You also act like anybody who uses their kill when we ask them to is confirmed townie, which is what I was speaking against.
We get 2 alignments of info at the least before we use the poisoner or lynch. Sounds like a lot to me.What I am saying is is that we need to wait for more information than just one day of information before we start using kills left and right.
I only act in the manner that if we go ahead with this plan, we SHOULD win barring insane variance.You act like we have already won this game, Armlx.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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armlx Most JDTay-like
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This isn't even worth my time to argue any more. The people who get it do, and the people who don't just won't ever get over their inexplicable correlation between more eliminated players early and town losses, despite the fact that the eliminated players are people who are likely to be lynched later anyways.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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armlx Most JDTay-like
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Meh, Alabaska was actually who I was going to say should be SB'ed. The fact Crazy was scum made his attempt to dig at the poisoner's role look a lot like figuring out if something could go wrong if he got SB'ed.
I can endorse a dead Emp at this point, not sure on who should be the other "lynch".Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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armlx Most JDTay-like
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What does that even mean?just appearing too comprehensive sometimes
Also, ZS, your logic is extremely terrible here as I have stated all game, and I find it very opportunistic to just blame me when the 2 scummiest people were town, as well as hypocritical. Of those who have died to the extra kills so far (counting EmpKing) you were seriously voting 2 of them until the point they died.
Vote ZSAway Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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This logic is absurd. Of course I would have rather hit scum then town, but you can't hold it against me that the scummiest player in the game wasn't scum when you agreed on it. And what were your thoughts on Alabaska before he died?ZombieSlayer54 wrote:What, am I supposed to say that the death of a townie is good?
Maybe it is. It provides us information.
But it is still nowhere near as good as the death of a scum, which I heartily approve of more than the death of a townie.
I mean, can you REALLY say that you would have preferred iceman to kill Alabaska over someone who is actually scum?Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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What are your thoughts on myself and ZS?wolframnhart wrote:@ZS yes I did poison Emp, problem is that the way it works he will not die until the end of the day, which means not until after a lynch. I am hoping that we find a truely scummy person to vote on because I do not want to lynch someone just for the sake of getting rid of a confusing player.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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This is what I was looking for with my questions. Just saying no one is scummy at this point is fairly scummy in itself.wolframnhart wrote: I would like to go back over the posts and see if there were any double takes but I still find it odd that the player that just came in (styro) wrote:
The bold is mine, and i never really like seeing players start off saying they are noob. I know it's really nothing but to me it seems like that is sometimes used to get others to look over him because he is noob, but as i said, this is just my opinion.styro wrote:hi, everyone i'm replacing nhat. due to the sheer content of this game so far..can anyone give me a summary of everything that is essential....preferably a summary form a town player, thnx Wink
P.S. i'll be doing a read also, but in case i miss stuff...yea i'm a noob ;D
Then the next post was:
doesn't really take a true stand (by that i mean voting). Instead he makes a kind of hit list, another thing I really never like seeing some players do because if they aren't scum, they will usually get themselves mislynched from making a hit list.styro wrote:Ok I've actually read all of the 15 pages and I would've voted armlx even if my predecessor didn't, besides from the mass-killing plan, armlx gives off a scummy vibe, ... just appearing too comprehensive sometimes, cautious too.
I'm also not liking hasf... for some reason. I'll read thru his individual posts.
... okay I've read hasf...'s individual posts in this game, he seems very defensive of armlx for some reason, even when armlx isn't really under heat, so it can't be scum buddying up to a townie (since armlx wasn't even under pressure).
armlx today and if he flips scum, i'm gunning for hasf's milky arse tmrAway Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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I believe the reason why this is crap logic was already explained in thread.You came up with the plan, I don't want to get fucked over when I find out end game that we've been following a mafia's plan all along. In addition, the way you've been playing, I wouldn't be surprised if you turn out mafia, you are such a good player.
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But to want to avoid your own death at the cost of the town as a whole implies you are scum.Styro wrote:
no, i want to be in this game, you don't have to be a scum to not want to die.armlx wrote:
This is scum logic along the lines of how Crazy tried to avoid SBing.Styro wrote:but i die, dudeAway Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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You also don't consider the fact that (if I remember IRC Smalltown right, which Xyl designed the bot for) the mafia kill counts as a night action. If Styro does something scummy today, I want to call him out for it today so that if he ends up turning out to be scum and gets lynched his partner is forced to claim an ability use tomorrow that has a definite trackable result (assuming his partner isn't myself or wolf, 2 people I have ruled out). His partner is also just as likely to be tracked to him during a wagon today compared to one tomorrow. Even if he is scum, he has 3 people (ZS, yourself, and pwnz) who could potentially call him out if he claims a fake protect tonight and kills, which is likely as if he is scum he is the weakest in game role for them to use and most likely to make the kill regardless of the pairing (again, barring wolf being scum). Also, if he is just town who isn't thinking, him knowing to use his ability is far better then him not using it, which is something I definitely think is still possible at this point.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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But having any other pro-town role live to tomorrow is more valuable then your role living as any role that would be killed most likely can change the end result of the game (numbers or information wise) where as your role simply replaces one death with another, which doesn't prevent the game from ending at the same time or directly hand out information the longer you live.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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Put that all together and we are left with one Mafia vote on charter at the very beginning of the game, which could honestly mean anything.
Your case on charter self contradicts within 1 paragraph. Nice.Mafia will sometimes vote for other members of the mafia early in the game in order to remove suspicion.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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