Mini 637: Xyl's Smalltown Plus - Game Over

[ZombieSlayer54]

And what I (and I presume Iceman) has been trying to say is that you do not know we are killing scum.

That is true of ANY lynch without cop results that are somehow confirmed.

You act like the person we choose for them to kill will necessarily be scum.

And have you ever considered that scum might kill another scum just to dig that much deeper into the pro-town zone?

The person we choose to lynch might not necessarily be scum. Consider how absurd that argument is.

And you would bring up WIFOM in response to the plan. Saying scum can WIFOM their way out of something is never a valid reasoning, what you are basically saying is that a scum who plays to the optimal townie plan is likely to be viewed as town, which is true and there's nothing you can do about it based on valid logic as simply put the number of times that actually happens are so few and far between that if you keep lynching people for that reason you will lose more games then you win due to lynching townies out of fear of them actually being WIFOMing scum, aka "Too Townie". Scum will inevitably do something scummy or be caught via night action based info or the town will lose.

When the point is reached it is too dangerous to leave the poisoner alive if they are scum and their actions have not cleared them, I fully endorse lynching them to avoid that risk, but now is not the time to discuss this.

By "good info" I mean 90% sure or better that they are scum.

You have really high standards. Go back and think about every time you have lynched someone, have you really been 90% sure about them?

Ok, let me clarify.

By "know someone is scum", what I essentially mean is "90% sure or better that they are scum".

What I am saying is is that we need to wait for more information than just one day of information before we start using kills left and right.

You act like we have already won this game, Armlx.

You also act like anybody who uses their kill when we ask them to is confirmed townie, which is what I was speaking against.

No. Not always. But I like to be 90% sure or better that they are scum when I cast a vote.

[armlx]

How is it?

I stil think, misleading the town is a very good scum tell, misleading the town in order to protect yourself is an even better scum tell. I still think that subtly threatening people is a scum tell and since he's guilty of both.

I agree with that, but I don't agree with your "except in LyLo" qualifier. I was stating that even in LyLo deliberately misleading the town is a scum tell.

You also act like anybody who uses their kill when we ask them to is confirmed townie, which is what I was speaking against.

No, I only act as if those who don't are confirmed scum. If "If A, then B" is true, it does not mean "If not A, then not B" is also true.

What I am saying is is that we need to wait for more information than just one day of information before we start using kills left and right.

We get 2 alignments of info at the least before we use the poisoner or lynch. Sounds like a lot to me.

You act like we have already won this game, Armlx.

I only act in the manner that if we go ahead with this plan, we SHOULD win barring insane variance.

[Xylthixlm]

Vote Count

IcemanE - 3 (cerebus3, charter, Crazy)
empking - 3 (hasdgfas, ZombieSlayer54, wolframnhart)
armlx - 1 (nhat)
wolframnhart - 1 (Empking)
cerebus3 - 1 (Alabaska J)
Crazy - 1 (icemanE)

Not voting: armlx, pwnz

With 12 alive, it will take 7 to lynch. The deadline for day 1 is Saturday, August 15 at 7:00 PM Pacific.

[ZombieSlayer54]

What I am saying is is that we need to wait for more information than just one day of information before we start using kills left and right.

We get 2 alignments of info at the least before we use the poisoner or lynch. Sounds like a lot to me.

You act like we have already won this game, Armlx.

I only act in the manner that if we go ahead with this plan, we SHOULD win barring insane variance.

You get that information by using kills without having information.

I would really rather us not use any kills (besides lynches) until we have good information.

I like Murphy's Law a lot. As far as I am concerned, we have not won this game until we have won this game.

[wolframnhart]

I would really rather us not use any kills (besides lynches) unil we have good information."

The only problem is ZS that if we did just a lynch today the mafia members wil more then likely kill off one of the dayvigs so they wouldnt be able to use their powers against them the next day, either that or kill off a protective role depending on what they think is the greatest threat. I agree more to using just one of the day powers like mine, and a lynch, in hopes of getting the right info we need before the mafia get a chance to take away one of the powers.

[charter]

Still thinking we need to either just lynch and poison, or SB iceman and lynch and poison.

Also, I say we keep all our night actions to ourselves until tomorrow. The other option I see is to plan them all out today. I won't advocate a plan some, let some people decide policy. We should start voicing our opinions on this matter as well.

[wolframnhart]

I am fine with either keeping night actions to ourselves (keep the mafia guessing) or plan it out to see where descrepenses have taken place the next morning.

as far as lynch and poison, or SB iceman and lynch and poison, thats a lil trickier. If we SB iceman we could just be loosing two townies, if ice and crazy are townies of course, and we are back to square one, along with poisoning a person and then lynching another. If we had a great read on a couple people great, but if not, i am more inclined to go along with a lynch poison and save the SB for day 2 when more info is hopefully gotten out of everything we have done over day/night 1.

[charter]

I am fine with either keeping night actions to ourselves (keep the mafia guessing) or plan it out to see where descrepenses have taken place the next morning.

The reason I'm all for keeping it secret, is the mafia will know before the night whether or not one of them will be discovered. Then, there are roles that don't really do a night action, SB, poisoner, backup possibly, who will be free to submit a kill and will know where the protections will be, so it will be easy to avoid. On top of this, if the mafia know where everything will be going, they can frame people easy, create WIFOM all over the place, etc.

If someone has reasons to plan out the actions before night, I'd like to hear them. I won't advocate the some people have theirs planned, some are free to choose, because it's easily manipulated by the mafia and I doubt it will find them.

[hasdgfas]

I would really rather us not use any kills (besides lynches) unil we have good information."

The only problem is ZS that if we did just a lynch today the mafia members wil more then likely kill off one of the dayvigs so they wouldnt be able to use their powers against them the next day, either that or kill off a protective role depending on what they think is the greatest threat.

:goodposting:

[armlx]

This isn't even worth my time to argue any more. The people who get it do, and the people who don't just won't ever get over their inexplicable correlation between more eliminated players early and town losses, despite the fact that the eliminated players are people who are likely to be lynched later anyways.

[cerebus3]

Ice man should to be bombed. (In case nobody is paying attention he just contradicted himself)

Mind explaining how?

I hope that wasn't a serious question. Definately scumhunting... Scum will try and get you to waste time during the day arguing about what role should do what instead of looking for them. I think it might even be better to not plan out night actions. This way, the next day, you have some explaining to do on why you did what you did. Plus then the scum wont know how we're acting.

I disagree - utilizing the roles will be a great advantage for us. As long as we decide that it will take a town consensus before someone uses a dayvig power, we essentially get free kills and delay heading into the night phase by lynching. The consensus is key, though - I think we should look at utilizing dayvig powers in the same way we look at voting.

This is equivalent to saying the town's best weapon is scumhunting.

...and it is... what are you saying with this? And why are you answering for arm. Please, I sincerely hate it.

Why?

He wants to go along with your plan and lynch you for suggesting the plan. Since he is going along with the plan, he obviously thinks that it is the most pro-town thing to do today, so that means he wants to lynch the guy who suggested (what he thinks) the most pro-town plan. How is that not scummy?

Poisoner, do you have a secret ability?

I hope I don't have to explain why this post is scummy.

oh, and if IcemanE is scum, I am 100% positive that Alabaska is his scum buddy.

icemanE: This is why I think we should lynch armlx today and go through with his plan. Just in case he is scum trying to carpet bomb the shit out of this game as scum.

I agree with your logic in your post - I also think it's obvious that you're town this game considering the difference between your play here and in the newbie game we played in together where you were scum.

I disagree with your kill choices other than armlx, though. I think we should utilize poisoner today and do a regular lynch, and consider whether or not we even want the SB to use his power at all.

I think it is safe to assume at least 1 scum supported the plan. That is probably the best way to avoid being targeted as people decide who needs to die, it is quick townie points if one of their scum buddies dies, and it is something that they can talk about other than doing real scum hunting. Going off of this idea, Alabaska is by far the scummiest player in support of the plan.

Since IcemanE is going to be SB'd today, we need votes on Alabaska.

unvote, vote: Alabaska J

[Alabaska J]

Also - the scum's main weapon is misleading the town into making poor decisions.

This is equivalent to saying the town's best weapon is scumhunting.

At first glance, these things look fine, but they aren't weapons, so stop trying to make everything armlx says look wonky.

Scumhunting and lynch go hand-in-hand in terms of power for the town.

Lynches are useless - Indeed, dangerous - without scumhunting.

Scumhunting is useless without the lynch.

You missed my point completely. Please read the post and think about it.

[Alabaska J]

I don't see whats wrong with that.

What I see is wrong with it is that it doubles our chances to be wrong without doubling our chances to be right. The SB isn't going to kill another scum. So the most we can kill with the SB is one scum - why would we want to risk losing two townies for the chance of killing at maximum one scum?

Why wouldn't we want to do that AND STILL HAVE A LYNCH THAT CAN GET US ANOTHER SCUM BEFORE THEY GET A KILL

Jumpin' Jehovah's Witnesses, Batman! This cow just does not understand that all town kills

do not necessarily hit scum

!

This is, of course, ignoring the fact that our two "extra lynches" may not necessarily be town controlled, either.

ITP we learn that ZombieSlayer does not know the definition of the word "can."

[Alabaska J]

Also, cerebus, wanna give reasons why I should die? I'm just gonna assume you are being OMGUS-y for the moment.

[Alabaska J]

Also, armlx, knowing if the poisoner has a secret ability is very relevant, as we could get seriously screwed if something wonky happens.

[Alabaska J]

By that logic, we should just non-stop no lynch until LyLo as it thins the crowd even more. By arguing that it is better to not utilize as many pro-town kills as is possible, you should agree with the statement that doctors shouldn't protect randomly as it hurts the town's info flow.

Wow. No. This is ridiculous, and very typical of what I saw in the Eclipse game - trying to tie my ideas in with other trash you generate to make what I'm saying seem stupid by association.

OBVIOUSLY PRO-TOWN KILLS ARE BENEFICIAL TO THE TOWN. What I'm saying is that CHANCES ARE VERY GOOD THAT MOST OF THE KILLS WE MAKE TODAY ARE NOT GOING TO BE PROTOWN IF WE JUST GUN DOWN AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE ON DAY ONE. Say we follow the high body count plan - and we screw it up, which is just as likely as killing even ONE of the scum - in fact, it's more likely we'll screw it up that not based on odds - that leaves us quite near lylo on day 2. What then? I already know you'll be making one mistake for sure if you go ahead with Alabaska and armlx's plan, so I can't possibly envision this being a good idea. I think utilizing the poisoner as well as the lynch is a BONUS KILL, but using the SB to kill two MORE people is OVERKILL.

how is it overkill to kill off the people we find most suspicious before the mafia gets a chance to NK some of us?

Because it is hard to be sure of someone's scuminess on Day 1.

We need more information before using stuff like suicide bombers.

Poisoners I am semi-fine with using right now.

SBs? Hell no.

Right, but if we get rid of the scummy people Day 1, we'll have better chances later if we happened to screw up today.

I would prefer not screwing up at all.

And I'd like to be a lesbian pornstar.

[Alabaska J]

And what I (and I presume Iceman) has been trying to say is that you do not know we are killing scum.

That is true of ANY lynch without cop results that are somehow confirmed.

Fixed.

Please try not to make six consecutive posts. Put what you want to say into one post.

[Alabaska J]

Ok seriously I think Empking needs to be killed today somehow because if he isn't scum somehow he is gonna seriously fuck with us later.

[Alabaska J]

Sorry for the double posting but I kinda got ambushed there.

If I keep this up, I might as well start doing this:

AJ

[cerebus3]

Wow alabaska, 7 posts in a row and yet you still somehow missed my post.

[armlx]

Ok seriously I think Empking needs to be killed today somehow because if he isn't scum somehow he is gonna seriously fuck with us later.

So not only do you support lynching on false logic, you also support policy lynching players too?

[Alabaska J]

Why?

He wants to go along with your plan and lynch you for suggesting the plan. Since he is going along with the plan, he obviously thinks that it is the most pro-town thing to do today, so that means he wants to lynch the guy who suggested (what he thinks) the most pro-town plan. How is that not scummy?

This means you just don't understand what I am trying to say here. I think we might fall into the trap of letting armlx run the town later on, especially if this plan works, and just in case he is scum trying to steer the town here I would like to have a fail-safe implemented.

Poisoner, do you have a secret ability?

I hope I don't have to explain why this post is scummy.

Yes you do. I find nothing scummy about it whatsoever.

oh, and if IcemanE is scum, I am 100% positive that Alabaska is his scum buddy.

icemanE: This is why I think we should lynch armlx today and go through with his plan. Just in case he is scum trying to carpet bomb the shit out of this game as scum.

I agree with your logic in your post - I also think it's obvious that you're town this game considering the difference between your play here and in the newbie game we played in together where you were scum.

I disagree with your kill choices other than armlx, though. I think we should utilize poisoner today and do a regular lynch, and consider whether or not we even want the SB to use his power at all.

I think it is safe to assume at least 1 scum supported the plan. That is probably the best way to avoid being targeted as people decide who needs to die, it is quick townie points if one of their scum buddies dies, and it is something that they can talk about other than doing real scum hunting. Going off of this idea, Alabaska is by far the scummiest player in support of the plan.

Since IcemanE is going to be SB'd today, we need votes on Alabaska.

unvote, vote: Alabaska J

First off, supported? Odd choice of word there. Second off, you are using basically

the exact same reasoning to vote me as I am to get armlx lynched today, WHICH YOU SAID WAS EXTREMELY SCUMMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MAJOR contradiction there IMO.

My vote is fine where it is. armlx can be tomorrow I suppose, if we have one.

My proposal:

SB icemanE
Poison Empking
Lynch cerebus3
Day2 lynch armlx, poison whomever we need to (if we still have the poisoner)

If we have no poisoner and obvscum day two, armlx's lynch (basically policy anyway) can be put on hold.

[charter]

Alabaska, don't plan out lynches like that. It lets the scum plan to get around being killed.

[Alabaska J]

Ok seriously I think Empking needs to be killed today somehow because if he isn't scum somehow he is gonna seriously fuck with us later.

So not only do you support lynching on false logic, you also support policy lynching players too?

They are both policy lynches, actually.

Do you support letting Empking live?

[armlx]

Alabaska, don't plan out lynches like that. It lets the scum plan to get around being killed.

Good posting.

Do you support letting Empking live?

I support lynching him for reasons that go beyond "policy".