Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[Unknown1234]

Thank you. Looks like I have lots to catch up on.

[Unknown1234]

Okay, I am on page 10 and I am still reading up on the game right now.

Few things I wanted to say regarding myself and other people.

1.) It says I am a newb, which is somewhat true because I am new to the site. However, I've played on other sites so I am not clueless when it comes to playing the game.

Now, in regards to what I've read so far...

Wheme seems like a scum player who is just trying to be nice to people while at the same time not doing any scum-hunting. I've read through their posts and it bothers me how they don't seem to even try to engage people, but only post so it seems like they are contributing in discussion. Hopefully this isn't an issue for this slot further into the game.

Gerry guy seems like a town that honestly doesn't care at all. The attitude given makes me believe that they don't even care whether they are lynched or not, and it doesn't seem forced to me at all in my opinion.

Treats, you seem to be engaging with most people at this point in time. Can you tell me why your vote is on ECMitchell and how you felt about my previous slot? You probably explain this later but given I've missed it I would like to discuss something.

There was one other person who bothered me, and that was Aj. Will follow up on this when I see more

[Unknown1234]

From what I've seen at page 20, Naomi has been way too fence sitting IMO. She spends most of her time into reading and making Town-reads, but the one thing I have rarely seen is her digging into scum-reads. It's way too easy for scum to make Town-reads because they know who Town is and and can find the townie parts in people's posts.

I also notice that so many people have Town-reads on her that aren't explained in any depth. Unless people mention "she is providing lots of content" which I do not find her content to be scum-hunting.

I hear she replaced out or something? Will find that later I guess.

[Unknown1234]

No, if Wheme is scum, game's over because his partners are Lowell/Hawk.

This is a really terrible post using pre-flip.

[Unknown1234]

TBH if I was scum, I'd be taking advantage of Wheme floundering for as much town points as I can get

I dislike when people say "if I was scum..." it generally feels (especially the way it was delivered) that it is a forceful way to present themselves at Town.

[Unknown1234]

offering to claim early as a protective is objectively bad town play. you want to stop a night kill if you are town, not draw the night kill. ESPECIALLY to have urgency to claim that on an odd day for an odd-night power. It's a bit more understandable if it were day 2 and he couldn't use it going into N2.

I think he'd know that as a town rolestopper.

Ergo, scum is the more likely possibility.

Issue with posts like this is that people have often expressed WhemeStar as an inexperienced scum or an inexperienced town. However, suddenly with this claim people don't even consider the possibility that they had no idea what to do and just claimed to prevent a miss lynch.

Could be wrong, but I'm starting to feel like the arguments on WhemeStar are way too one-sided.

[Unknown1234]

I'm changing my mind Ah because the anger and retaliation I am feeling from this skit is looking more townie than it is as scum anger.

[Unknown1234]

No

I don't see this as something a scum player would do. They wouldn't hold back reasons because it would make them look worse, and so I feel he is either bluffing to protect a town-read of he genuinely has some evidence to support this claim.

Frogger town.

[Unknown1234]

are you going to chide Gerry for that while you lurk all game?

Yes. Because I'm actually taking a stance and providing my thoughts on slots, despite my low activity. He's not.

Yo Penguin just hops on the big wagon every time too

Which happened to be on my two expressed scum reads prior to - at least for Wheme - being started.

I also have this weird feelikng Penguin wasn't prodded because he was in his scum chat talking.

You should probably read the rules.

Someone posting the bare minimum is always an issue for me.

[Unknown1234]

I want Fro99er to tell me what about Lowell/Terata's vote switches made him comfortable following that. I know you townread Terata but Lowell looks like a freelancer willing to lynch anyone BUT Wheme at this point.

I have a reason and I've saved it to a draft so that I can reply later.

I know you've moved off of EC, but I still want to see this.

------

Also, just a note that Wheme decided to say hi to a new player instead of responding to or even acknowledging my 641.

The level of shade throwing in this post is hilarious. Not to mention the fact that this slot has barely commented on anything as of late in the game and they feel the need to continue to fuel the fire on the leading train.

[Unknown1234]

Lowell what are you even talking about? You think chaos has been bussing wheme all day, when I made a huge wall post about how I thought chaos was manipulating wheme.

No.

Just no. I think Chaos and Wheme are either both town, or one is town one is scum. There is ZERO chance both are scum.

I agree with this statement for a few reasons.

1.) If they are both scum, this feels like the laziest bussing attempt that I have seen in a long time and would do nothing of the sort in regards to what the intention of bussing is.

2.) When Chaos is around, he interacts with Wheme the most which makes me believe that they aren't on the same team because they wouldn't need to discuss as much with the day chat that they'd have.

I am currently leaning against Wheme as town over Chaos honestly. Wheme has been targeted by several people in this game and I don't feel like they are even attacking people on their train or trying to shift it off of them.

[Unknown1234]

Going to break for a bit. I don't like sheep right now, and I thbink that is where I would put my vote right now if I had to choose. Will be back later.

I need to look at Lowell and EC. Nothing stands out to me in either aspect so if people have a strong read on either, I would actually like to see it from someone else's perspective to see if I agree/disagree. Otherwise I'll look at them more intently later.

[Unknown1234]

get an avatar lol please

I'll get an avatar if you do something productive.

[Unknown1234]

I'm not going to lie when I say that catching up is less desirable for me. I don't think I didn't read the game, but I will admit that at some points in my read through that it was easier to skim posts to save time.

I also didn't comment on most of the beginning part because it is usually slower. I am not going to skip on it entirely though, I just wanted to comment on late game more.

And I am quite dramatic at times, so bare with me.

[Unknown1234]

Actually I got townvibes on that catch up

Penguin actually bothers me because they basically post only to stay in the game from what I've seen. Obviously I haven't been able to look over everything though because catching up sucks.

[Unknown1234]

I am quite dramatic at times, so bare with me.

We will get along

Or fight it out to the death

I like you, so I don't think I'll be fighting it out with you. Not yet...

[Unknown1234]

get an avatar lol please

I'll get an avatar if you do something productive.

ok. i think wheme is maf based on reactions. i think penguin might be a good vote too

Which reactions in particular?

Why is Penguin a good lynch?

Answer this an I'll get an avatar, because what you said isn't being productive it's saying something with nothing backing it up.

[Unknown1234]

I need to look at Chaos too, so unless your case is compelling I'd rather lynch Sheep or Penguin today.

[Unknown1234]

Omg I just started hating Mitchell for the Vig comment.

[Unknown1234]

I don't know what that role is. Where do I find out?

[Unknown1234]

I would call you stupid for thinking I was referring to vig as the role I didn't understand. I meant Wheme's role

[Unknown1234]

So why did you start hating him for it if you don't know what it does?

Because it makes no sense to advocate a Vig to shoot a possible PR.

[Unknown1234]

K, so Mitchell suggested to shoot an Escort while later on basically tries to make it look as if I slipped. Why would shooting an Escort be a good move?

[Unknown1234]

You can't expect me to know this logic

[Unknown1234]

Sorry I missed it during my reading. I also had to read 12 days worth of stuff and I miss things.

[Unknown1234]

Oh..

[Unknown1234]

I feel like Alissa came in here and buddies you because she thinks you're good. Lol.

[Unknown1234]

UNVOTE: unvote

I guess I never unvoted from Lil Uzi

[Unknown1234]

Frogger I am excited ;~;
Frogger town = Free winz.
And ye I'll read that too.

Lol.

[Unknown1234]

That type of reaction in game is pretty shit. I don't know if he sucks up to you this much in other games but wow this was so sudden.

[Unknown1234]

Um, I'm going to look at Chaos more now. Frogger where's your read on Naomi at and why?

[Unknown1234]

I never said there was something wrong with socializing with a friend, but honestly if you are going to be super friendly, compliment him and basically suck up to him then expect it to look suspicious.

I'm a grump in games unfortunately when I don't know people.

[Unknown1234]

VOTE: WhemeStar

Wheme, what are your thoughts on Sheep and the quick L-2 wagon on him?

Honestly, this to me is a weird post to start the game. It feels like they just wanted to rush into the game trying to look productive early on. Don't know many Town players that do this.

[Unknown1234]

VOTE: WhemeStar

Wheme, what are your thoughts on Sheep and the quick L-2 wagon on him?

Why not give your thoughts?

I don't think they'd be super helpful. At any rate, you can probably tell I'm not all about it since I didn't jump on the wagon.

VOTE: WhemeStar

Wheme, what are your thoughts on Sheep and the quick L-2 wagon on him?

I think their both town, froggy dude pushing him to get reactions out of others. And it worked, which makes me suspect Lil Uzi, Hawk, and Gerryoak.

I'll keep my vote on Uzi.

So, frog is town for the push on Sheep. This would lead me to think that you think his reasoning is good/genuine/some other good words. If this is the case, why be suspicious of other people agreeing and why townread Sheep? If this is not the case, why townread frogger?

It's weird that he did ask someone and then didn't say his own opinions at this point. I don't know why somebody would say "my thoughts are not very helpful" opposed to trying to do something. The idea of expecting other people to get more out of something then you can is rather odd for a Town to do IMO.

[Unknown1234]

uh huh.
Yeah sure.
Gimmie your Lowell read.
Pedit: Why is that bad exactly?

Doing a Chaos read ATM. Will input later.

Why is what bad?

[Unknown1234]

Are you trying to explain to me that you don't think buddying is bad from perspective? Given the first thing you did was address him and establish him as "Town and ez win" you basically get yourself in a position where if he is scum then he can easily manipulate you in his favour.

On the other hand, if you are scum then you are trying to get him on your side if you believe he is a strong Town player. Both make sense from my perspective.

If you're Town, being super friendly in a game of mafia doesn't work out well.

[Unknown1234]

uh huh.
Yeah sure.
Gimmie your Lowell read.
Pedit: Why is that bad exactly?

uh huh.
Yeah sure.
Gimmie your Lowell read.
Pedit: Why is that bad exactly?

Doing a Chaos read ATM. Will input later.

Why is what bad?

What you said in 900 and 902.

It feels way too forced of an entrance to the game. Scum are the ones who will want to look pro-Town so I would expect it more from scum opposed to Town who would be more loose in the game to start.

[Unknown1234]

Gerry answer my previous statement in response to your earlier post.

[Unknown1234]

Reading over Chaos's posts is not really bringing me a pro-town attitude or approach.

One of the biggest things I did notice from all of their posts was that they only interact with Frogger, Terata and Wheme. I have rarely seen interactions with anyone else and that is less than half the game.

[Unknown1234]

Froggy used to be my main town read, but I'm not sure anymore. Don't like how he calls people out for being scum and then completely 180 and calls them town. Could just be an active scum

That's my town meta dork

That was too much.

[Unknown1234]

Gerry is Town basically unless drastic events occur.

[Unknown1234]

Firebringer is probably the craziest person I know. People need to stop host meta'ing him lol.

[Unknown1234]

Her buddying was pretty shit and the fact that she wants to lynch someone claiming a PR by saying "it doesn't make you Town" seems desperate.

[Unknown1234]

Her buddying was pretty shit and the fact that she wants to lynch someone claiming a PR by saying "it doesn't make you Town" seems desperate.

Did you even read the case?

Oh, my bad. I forgot to add the word "slip" to every one of my lines because you mention it way too often.

Your argument is attacking personality, not scumminess. Explain to me why "you're wrong" is scummy at all because I'm fairly confident that's how Gerry plays.

[Unknown1234]

You're literally attacking the weakest point?
Fine by me.
Saying "You're wrong" is scummy because he's not making the effort to try to rebut the case, just discredit it completely.

Don't attack the playstyle, because that's not what makes somebody scum. This player is being a complete moron if he's PR but it's been consistent in his personality all game. You can't pick out one part of his personality and label it as scummy but not the rest.

Also, you wouldn't say "Fine by me" because if I'm not understanding what you're saying or missing something, you would want to actually show me that I'm wrong instead of just pushing it aside.

[Unknown1234]

Can we stop getting sidetracked by stupid shit? My only experiences with Alisae is him looking lowkey like scum regardless.

Why do you just enter like you've been here the entire time and "try" to stop people from being "sidetracked". What are we being sidetracked from and what do you think we should be focusing on? This is a discussion about suspicions based on Alisae.

Also, what do you mean by "low key scum"? Because to me that sounds like you think they're scum.

[Unknown1234]

Wheme train has a few shit people on it. What's the vote count again?

[Unknown1234]

I like the amount of people at L-6. Gud Choices ppl.

I'm down to vote Havingfitz if people want to. I feel they are way too forgotten and have expressed doubt before.

[Unknown1234]

I don't like lynching Wheme.

[Unknown1234]

Not a fan of any of Hawks recent posts. Will get to this and the other confusions people had with my posts.

[Unknown1234]

VOTE: havingfitz

This is mostly based on the slot before this one, but this guy has done nothing substantial that would make me change my mind.

[Unknown1234]

I'm down to vote Havingfitz if people want to.

I feel they are way too forgotten and have expressed doubt before.

What are you talking about?

Your slot is so ignored and nobody draws any suspicion to it. The second half was what I've already mentioned and I don't have a ton of time ATM but will later.

[Unknown1234]

Why is Wheme the lead wagon. Does his claim not count for anything?

Why say something that you don't agree with but then do nothing about it? This is so wrong and it looks like last minute defending for a possible Town flip even though you don't even say WHY it's bad.

[Unknown1234]

I'll be back.

[Unknown1234]

When Gerry makes an appearance twice!!

[Unknown1234]

VOTE: havingfitz

This is mostly based on the slot before this one, but this guy has done nothing substantial that would make me change my mind.

I thought Uzi was town, but I can reread that.

Either way, it's not a viable lynch for today so get your vote off here.

Oh wait

you're Uzi's slot.

Naomi I thought was town too, but I could be convinced otherwise. BUt not with < 24 hours left. So point stands. Leave this for tomorrow.

I definitely don't expect their lynch to happen, but I would prefer to get my thought she out incase I die so that people miss/ignore my thoughts.

[Unknown1234]

Sheep has been gone for so long that I haven't even said something to them once. Given they've been under some heat all day I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if they were lurking scum.

[Unknown1234]

lol I must really scumread Garrybote then

Who is your second strongest scum-read as of right now?

[Unknown1234]

K gonna read the last 3 pages.

[Unknown1234]

Havingfitz go comment on those "crap posts" please instead of giving out gold stars that you don't have.

[Unknown1234]

Chaos -- don't out your role or anything. Just let us know if you can do something to sort Wheme tonight.

If it is, then wheme should target Chaos so he protects Chaos from a kill and Chaos can do his power thing to sort wheme.

If it's not, then I say we let the night play out and lynch in the non-claimed-PRs.

Does me answering yes to this question change your lynch pool? If so, in what ways?

I actually hate how you asked a question first as if it mattered how you answered to Town.

[Unknown1234]

Sheep has been gone for so long that I haven't even said something to them once. Given they've been under some heat all day I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if they were lurking scum.

I've been generally posting multiple times a day every day of the game, are you mixing me up with someone else?

People are ignoring how bad Hawk is until just now.
I'm actually having a hard time figuring out if there's more theory soft support for Lowell or Hawk.
I'mma do this to see if it's Lowell.

Vote: Lowell

Sheep the sheep everyone! There is mint julep tea at the end of this rainbow.
I will be back later if people manage to bum rush onto Hawk, the guy who talks out of both sides of his mouth all day.
I still oppose the Wheme lynch.

I double checked to see if I was wrong, but you made like 10 posts over 5 days, so if this is the kind of posting I should expect in a 14 day day then correct me if I'm wrong.

[Unknown1234]

I find it funny how Havingfitz began to interact with the people that were accusing him. It's almost as if my read on him is so important that if it isn't Town then he is against me. Hmm...

[Unknown1234]

I think the question you asked was terrible then because it doesn't prove your theory.

Not to mention he said "don't put your role" in capitals.

[Unknown1234]

If you're talking roles, don't expect me to know half the shit because I've never dealt with "odd/even nights" before.

[Unknown1234]

@Unknown - 10 posts in 5 days is an average of 2 per game day - that certainly qualifies to me as a reasonable amount of posting. If that makes em a lurker to your eyes, I feel safe in the knowledge you'll have a lot of people to lynch before I'm the worst lurker

To be fair, the people who post less than you get replaced, so...

You also missed half of the statement where the other half was about you not even talking with me or others in those posts that you made during that time. If you think two posts a day is cutting it, then you clearly don't want to solve the game.

Also, I come from a site where days are only two days, so activity will be different than it is here.

[Unknown1234]

If chaos refuses to cooperate, I can pretty much conclude he and wheme are not aligned together.

Why are you announcing this out loud? I've seen you do it a few times and it's basically coaching them on what you want.

[Unknown1234]

Someone thinks Lowell is Town?

Doubled up with your lack of activity recently is suspicious.

[Unknown1234]

@Unknown - I have more posts than Lowell, Chaos, and Hawk, I'm totally good with you deciding my amount of posts is scummy as long as we lynch those three first

Posts as of recent is more important than early game spam.

[Unknown1234]

I can vote the whole playerlist as town too!
Want me to do that?

VOTE: alisae
VOTE: sheep
VOTE: hawk
VOTE: chaos
VOTE: uzi replacement
VOTE: Naomi replacement
VOTE: AJ
VOTE: Frogger (OH A SELF VOTE)
VOTE: ECM
VOTE: Wheme
VOTE: Gerry
VOTE: Terata
VOTE: Lowell

I don't even get a name?

[Unknown1234]

still feel Lowell has a towny straight to the point tone and think he's just likely town lhf. And if im right on Lowell, i think there has to be scum in his vote right now. Sheep is the one i feel worst about individually there. So VOTE: Cooperative Sheep. i would trust you if you found a better cfd Frogg, but i just don't like the Lowell lynch today

Tone read...

[Unknown1234]

Wow I'm behind. Have to catch up, but from what I read so far froggy wants me to go on Chaos so he can use his ability to confirm me as town!?

Still waiting for catch-up...

[Unknown1234]

Wow I'm behind. Have to catch up, but from what I read so far froggy wants me to go on Chaos so he can use his ability to confirm me as town!?

Still waiting for catch-up...

Actually ignore this.

[Unknown1234]

I can vote the whole playerlist as town too!
Want me to do that?

90% of you is trolling.

[Unknown1234]

You realize that the case on you is that if Lowell flips scum, you're scum. I've explained this multiple times and EVERY TIME you act like this leads to your death.

Are you agreeing with me here?

Sure yeah, I'm fine with Lowell lynch looks good. I know I'm not scum. I don't know how to convince ya'll I'm not :/

If he flips red and ya'll think you have to lynch me after great. If he flips green then I guess I'm in the clear?

I think I'm just not understanding this game state right now so yeah do whatever.

Honestly, I can't even tell if he knows that Lowell is scum and is using AtE, or if he is trying to buddy the townie that's going to be lynched.

The emotions feel so forced... when someone says they're confused about the game at the 14th day and they try to use it as some sort of defense...

Terata/Lowell/Hawk??

[Unknown1234]

I can vote the whole playerlist as town too!
Want me to do that?

90% of you is trolling.

I think you're ignoring all of the things I'm doing where I actually play the game.

I think I gave you a nice, generous, 10%.

[Unknown1234]

Actually I just realized I have 5 scum reads....

Time to reassess.

[Unknown1234]

Lowell I REALLY feel like you're posturing over the Wheme slot.

Why?

[Unknown1234]

Lowell it's like "Ehhhh, if it got to deadline I guess I'd lynch him." Like I just sorta don't like that stance.

All of your phrases are suddenly so wishy washy. You used to have confidence in your speech and now you're saying "I just sorta don't like that"

Need to look farther for more proof of this.

[Unknown1234]

Lowell I was scumreading Garrybote before he announced his scumread on me.
I thought Garrybote was coasting scum before I made my case on him and when he just OMGUS'd me I went out on him.

Your posts are phrased as if you're back tracking on stuff. I don't understand why you have scum-reads but you've barely made any effort to push them despite voting them.

[Unknown1234]

I don't pair Lowell and Sheep ever. Pick a side and stick with it.

[Unknown1234]

I'll plop my vote elsewhere. But tomorrow I will pursue it.

[Unknown1234]

Idk.

[Unknown1234]

Hmm.

[Unknown1234]

Is Lowell that one guy who had attempted the most obvious buddying towards me?

[Unknown1234]

TBH, I'm not feeling as good about this lynch as I could be.

However, my gut is telling me to hammer.

I'll regret this later, maybe... stupid Gut.

VOTE: Sheep

[Unknown1234]

Havingfitz is the most salty person ever LOL Get Rekt.

[Unknown1234]

What makes you think that in particular thoug.

[Unknown1234]

How long are nights?

[Unknown1234]

Havingfitz is the most salty person ever LOL Get Rekt.

So why Sheep instead of Lowell?

I can actually understand and follow what Lowell has actually said. I also prefer his train to the people on Lowells train and the fact that I don't feel comfortable with a Lowell lynch today.

[Unknown1234]

Havingfitz is the most salty person ever LOL Get Rekt.

So why Sheep instead of Lowell?

I can actually understand and follow what Lowell has actually said. I also prefer his train to the people on Lowells train and the fact that I don't feel comfortable with a Lowell lynch today.

Nice tap dancing actually. Have you ever actually played mafia before?

Cry more please.

[Unknown1234]

Havingfitz is the most salty person ever LOL Get Rekt.

So why Sheep instead of Lowell?

I can actually understand and follow what Lowell has actually said. I also prefer his train to the people on Lowells train and the fact that I don't feel comfortable with a Lowell lynch today.

Nice tap dancing actually. Have you ever actually played mafia before?

Cry more please.

Are you 12 years old?

Nah, I'm just not going to sit around and put up with your annoying bullshit. Either do something productive or actually shut up.

[Unknown1234]

Wow, I lived.

[Unknown1234]

Havingfitz was very determined to discourage my hammer vote and attempted to get me to switch to Lowell.....

Hmmm....

[Unknown1234]

Hawk was such a weird kill. Worth looking at what he's said, because I don't see why killing him would do anything.

[Unknown1234]

LOOL sheep was actually maf. sry guys, i guess if i paid more attention to this game, i would have continued to push on him, but from limited view, it looked like people just kept pushing on my slip thing and nothing else. Well at least i got some initial pressure on him

This post is actually horrible. They basically point out everything they did in the day and try to use it as evidence that they were "scum-reading" sheep.

[Unknown1234]

To phrase it better: "even though I wasn't on the Sheep train, I still pushed him earlier and scum-read him" don't know who brags about it.

[Unknown1234]

Lots of excuses.

[Unknown1234]

I'm not playing any differently than day 1. You're just annoying.

[Unknown1234]

I think EC is Town for being too stupid.

[Unknown1234]

Regardless of Town or Scum, no point in early hammering anyways.

Still don't see why scum would put two likely to-be Town players as their scum reads because they both voted Sheep and several people said focus non-sheep voters.

Feel free to disagree.

[Unknown1234]

Also yeah I went to get an avatar but I have to do it on my phone ATM and apparently it was too large. Anyways.

[Unknown1234]

Feel free to disagree.

I disagree

K.

[Unknown1234]

And without looking back my initial feelin is that fitz way of flaming someone for voting scum after the lynch already went through is maybe towny considering fitz would know sheep was gonna flip red and that didnt seem like the case to me at that time. But imma look back at that later to see if i still feel that way

I don't disagree to be honest.

My initial thinking was that if the mod doesn't come and end the day, that votes can be swapped.

I'm used to having the threads close completely when there is a hammer, so I don't ever come across this issue and so I didn't know for sure if it meant votes can be reversed or not.

If they can be reversed (if it happens regularly) then that might be a red flag.

[Unknown1234]

Are most roles odd/even nights?

[Unknown1234]

I'm also slightly suspicious of Chaos near EOD choosing to vote for Lowell over Sheep and then coming in and leading a lynch. I think this is something to look at more depending on the flip.

Stating intent to vote whenever I feel best suited.

[Unknown1234]

Ftr i think everyone except unknown gets big points for voting sheep.

I disagree with the first half, especially when you include "I think"

[Unknown1234]

Ftr i think everyone except unknown gets big points for voting sheep.

I disagree with the first half, especially when you include "I think"

"i think" as in "my opinion".

Who do you think doesnt get any/much cred for the sheep vote then?

I don't like to give credit for voting because it's so easy to do. (I do it a lot)

You can say that the last half of the voters were just voting the biggest wagon and could have easily decided to throw a teammate under the bus. (The only other train at the time that was big was Wheme IIRC, and that train was starting to die).

I know you led the train, which says a lot but the end of the train mostly built up last minute so I wouldn't give a lot of credit.

[Unknown1234]

I'm also tired so sorry if it comes across as being cranky. Partially why I ignored Havingfitz right now.

[Unknown1234]

Earlier it was, no?

Also, Lowell was at L-4 I think.

[Unknown1234]

No I was talking about when most of
The votes stacked.

He was at L-3 when I voted for Sheep.

[Unknown1234]

Maybe I gotta get an avatar now

[Unknown1234]

I think ECM or Chaos is scum, maybe both. But definitely one of them

Already said this D1

I stand by it but Ali and Gerry are weirding me out

I think you are looking at playstyle with these two and not scumminess. I do want to hear why it's "weird" though.

[Unknown1234]

I wouldn't be so fast to clear him, I'm still sketchy on him. but ok

Make a case.

[Unknown1234]

I'd like to lynch Lowell or Hawk right now, with optional secondaries for Chaos and Frogger.

Here he clearly states his desire as Lowell to be his number one lynch, but by passes that here.

Okay so.. Let me ask you a simple question; Was your post in question a joke or other wise non-serious post that is NAI?

It was a serious question asked in a mocking way, if he hadn't answered it would have been very serious - I leave it to you to classify that in your own joke range.

Btw Sheep, if I for example Whiteknighted you as scum, what would i gain in then instantly swapping you to a scum lean a bit later after i resisted the wagon? doesn't that kinda negate the pocketing the whiteknighting as scum could've possibly gained?

You swapped me after the pressure on me was relieved, which makes sense in a scum concept of hoping the lynch goes through and you look good for being 'right' and shifting me to a lynch option for later also plays to that potential scum play.

No.

I don't play this "answer my questions game." If you think that makes me scum for it IDGAF. I don't sit here and do what people tell me to do. That's not how I play so get off your damn high horse with this "I'd like you to do this" bullcrap.

You've already shown me you'll give absurd logic with that avatar retort. I'm not going to go around in circles with you. It helps nobody.

Could you at least address the point where I called you a misrepper/liar for how you changed up what Lowell said and then attacked me over my reaction to something that wasn't said?

Because I'd love to talk about that.

Vote: Frogger

And votes frogger.

So Gerry is scum, eh?

I don't think Lowell is scum, but I don't think that makes Gerry scum.

Unless you have a reason for thinking Gerry is playing like scum, I don't see it.

Gerry, look elsewhere right now because unless you have a strong case I don't think anyone is following it.

[Unknown1234]

Okay

[Unknown1234]

Only if you spell my name right.

[Unknown1234]

Sorry I'm back now been awfully busy

[Unknown1234]

I'll vote if needed then.

VOTE: ChaosOmega

[Unknown1234]

Ali said the replacement shit was scummy but it doesn't ruin their town read. Then, they decide to say Frogger is Town and that I'm probably scum or Gerrybptw.

Also, what happened was I asked to be replaced but then when I posted (I didn't want an empty slot not voting) he assumed I was coming back in and so i basically decided to stay.

Don't like Havingfitz'a vote right now.

ITS ALSO 4v2 SO WE LIKELY LOSE IF WE MISLYNCH.

Another reason why I can't believe Ali.

[Unknown1234]

I honestly need to do some more reading first though.

[Unknown1234]

Can someone explain why people have forgotten it's 4v2? You can't win a 2v2 unless I'm being completely stupid right now and assuming that a night kill will go off or something.

[Unknown1234]

I'm willing to take this 1 for 1 and roll Alisae first but I'm trying to figure out what the point of Alisae's claim is from scum right now.

So you would accept a 1v1 and opt for the claimed PR instead of the claimed VT?

I don't think I'm interested in that.

You cool with being lynched tomorrow Ali if you're fos?

Worst case...even if they're both town we're still just to D5 LYLO.

VOTE: Frogger

I don't like how you didn't even think twice. Not to mention you've been my strongest scum-read all game this is awful.

[Unknown1234]

Wow okay then.

[Unknown1234]

What kind of framing roles are there? If any.

[Unknown1234]

Nobody answered my framer comment.

[Unknown1234]

I don't even know roles but what could alter feedback?

[Unknown1234]

Sue me for not knowing roles.

If there is 0 chance feedback is altered, I'd pick Ali over Frogger any day.

If I'm wrong, then Frogger did well and Ali really sucks. As bad a Havingfitz.

VOTE: Ali

I don't think I'm wrong though.

[Unknown1234]

Gerry that's pretty obvious. How did you not see that?

Alisae claimed that Frogger killed Wheme.

I miss Wheme =(

[Unknown1234]

I did, and I wouldn't have even voted Chaos but I subbed back in because host confusion.

Ugh it doesn't matter just read the game.

[Unknown1234]

^^ that was in response to Gerry.

[Unknown1234]

If it's 7v4, I can see why Alisae would specifically try to get rid of you. They could be trying to drive the powerful and strongest town to a lynch so that they only need one more lynch. If this theory is true, it leads me to believe that Havingfitz is just stupid instead because I doubt they'd pull something like this off if the other scum was Havingfitz.

Or maybe I'm overthinking things. I don't feel like hammering right now though.

[Unknown1234]

Also, if you knew me then you would know I'm incredibly stubborn and you won't get me to hammer you by simply asking.

[Unknown1234]

I hate pity.

[Unknown1234]

Frogger I don't think we have enough smart people left right now.

[Unknown1234]

Sorry idk why I said 7v4 I didn't mean that.

[Unknown1234]

Does your vote even count against yourself? Lol

[Unknown1234]

This is depressing.

[Unknown1234]

Even in the slight chance that Frog is scum I wouldn't feel bad about not voting.

[Unknown1234]

Y'all are dumb as fuck.

VOTE: Alisae

[Unknown1234]

You don't even deserve to talk.

[Unknown1234]

Peace out.

[Unknown1234]

Havingfitz I don't even care what you are but since we have one more mislynch anyways, after Alisae flips scum you are dead. I don't even care if I'm dead you're dead.

[Unknown1234]

What scum role are you?

[Unknown1234]

Who is still alive?

[Unknown1234]

I don't think you ever lynch outside of Havingfitz and ECMitchell/IamInnocent.

[Unknown1234]

Why the fuck does nobody listen? I told you there was no reason they'd do it unless they had a stupid role.

[Unknown1234]

Also Alisae was hammered before they Governed so... is it an auto ability?

Also no clue what it does but I'm guessing it skips a lynch.

[Unknown1234]

Alisae was a much better lynch hands down. You could have voted Alisae instead.

[Unknown1234]

Alisae you voted before you Governed so....

[Unknown1234]

You voted before you Governed so it shouldn't count..

[Unknown1234]

I don't even how these things work but she fucked up so it's her fault

[Unknown1234]

If Lowell/Terata is scum then wp.

VOTE: HavingFitz

[Unknown1234]

Should be worth looking if Lowell had connections with sheep or Alisae. I don't think I'd ever vote o Terata though.

[Unknown1234]

Honestly I only read that as an attempt to look Town.

[Unknown1234]

VOTE: Iaminnocent

I am willing to believe that Havingfitz is just a salty human being.

[Unknown1234]

UNVOTE: unvote

I'm used to faster hammers since days are only 2 RL days.

[Unknown1234]

It would be nice if Lowell showed up too, wherever the fuck he is.

[Unknown1234]

And omfg I would have not replaced into this game if I knew that everyone and their mothers liked wallposting.
My tiny little head can't wrap around that stuff.
Be concise!
Seriously, some of these walls I just can't look at at a glance and grab an arguement.

I'm taking the time to see how Alisae played the game out way before she was pushing on Frogger. Want to add up anything that could be useful.

[Unknown1234]

Becuase I really hate that inconsistency with the claims.
And I really hate the fact that he's trying to push EC instead of Garrybote, when he should be pushing Garrybote if he's looking for coasting scum.

This is somewhat deflecting off of EC/Innocents slot.

[Unknown1234]

Through reading all of Alisae's posts, there is basically 0 reference to Havingfitz at all the entire time.

They also claim Lowell is their second strongest scum-read, but yet they don't really make any attempt to push Lowell due to constantly pushing Gerrybote.

The interaction between Alisae and EC didn't really seem like scum, but I would like to hold my thoughts on that for a bit.

[Unknown1234]

VOTE: frogger

Die frogscum die! Hammer!

The hammer vote was really bad. They didn't say much for a while and then just immediately come in and ends Day.

[Unknown1234]

Lowell also said he'd fos Ali but that never happened. I don't see a reaction much on Ali from Lowell.

[Unknown1234]

Okay, if it's not me. Why, now?

VOTE: sheep

I have no read here at all. 55 pages in. No one listens to me and I'm going to go eat worms.

Lowell had an early Scum-read on Sheep, never pushed it and just let other people go about their own things. Then, he decides to vote up against sheep again but I still don't see much effort to get their scum-read lynched.

[Unknown1234]

I still do find it interesting that Ali decided to lynch Frogger. Even if it was to get rid of a strong Town voice, she'd have to have some hope for her teammate and why she did it instead of her teammate.

It's either the amount of credibility of she wanted us to use her to find associations.

But it does make me wonder if Lowell could be it. I need to look at Terata soon to be on the safe side.

[Unknown1234]

Amount of credibility or*

[Unknown1234]

I'm not going to argue with you, but I want to go over what you said so I'll do that now.

[Unknown1234]

Starting at the top of your post, I am more annoyed that you began to defend yourself in advance of anyone accusing you based on not even questioning the lead and being the only person on that train.

I don't agree with your explanation. Frogger was never scum in that situation, and the fact that you think someone goes from obv town to completely scum without even thinking twice about it really bothers me.

If you are confident in Lowell being Town based on VCA, then I'm going to re-read because TBH I didn't reach the same conclusion as you.

Terata is Town and I don't see a reason to think otherwise.

You actually give ECM a lot more credit than they actually deserve. If you are actually Town I'd like to see you cover more in depth on this.

On to my read, you are mis repping the entire situation by saying that I was going to vote Chaos. If you think I am scummy based on a game error occurring because of me never playing on this site before and assuming I would help the game before I replaced out, then I think you are more scummy for trying to manipulate the situation.

Given you have hated me this entire game, you basically went into every single day trying to make me look worse. You also call me stupid all game, and haven't even considered the "why would Unknown do that if he's Town" situation. You have automatically assumed I'm scum the entire game.

I disagree with the VCA comment, but I'd rather see you explain that before just jumping on you anyways.

I am a fairly salty person sometimes when it comes to playing in games, not going to lie. But your entire read is based on VCA and very little of it is based on actual interactions or you copy what I said (about the ignoring). I am probably more frustrated and find this entire interaction with you obvious to be scum because you already know that I've been scum-reading you the entire game and that getting rid of me would be easier for you.

You also assume that I'm going to play how you would. I don't play stupid, and I never lynch my townreads. Never. Maybe I don't rely on night actions as much as you guys on this site but I have not seen you try to read me from a town perspective. (The only thing you ever said was that my hammer vote on Sheep is not bad but not good).

If you are Town, I actually want you to analyze me with more than what you just did. And don't read this post as an attack on you because I get aggressive when I disagree strongly with people's opinions and I can't change that.

[Unknown1234]

Starting at the top of your post, I am more annoyed that you began to defend yourself in advance of anyone accusing you

based on not even questioning the lead and being the only person on that train.

I wasn't defending myself. If you are reading it as a defense you would be wrong again.
Accusing me of what?
As for the quote bit I bolded...I have no idea what you are talking about.

I don't agree with your explanation. Frogger was never scum in that situation, and the fact that you think someone goes from obv town to completely scum without even thinking twice about it really bothers me.

You can never say never. Anything was possible...even scum!Frogger. What I was pretty certain of was that we were getting a scum out of the 1v1. And I did think twice...I just voted once. I wasn't going to risk lynching a useful PR over a claimed VT to dispute a claim that IMO made no sense for scum to make. Alisae was in no danger from Frogger IMO. I doubt D3 was heading down the path of an Alisae lynch. For him to fall on his sword that early in the game just to get rid of Frogger was asinine IMO. I would never willingly give up a scum slot.

If you are confident in Lowell being Town based on VCA, then I'm going to re-read because TBH I didn't reach the same conclusion as you.

Feel free to explain. I'm not saying any of my reads are etched in stone. I'm saying that at the moment, based on D1 VCA...I'm more inclined to think Lowell is town than anyone else in the game at the moment.

Terata is Town and I don't see a reason to think otherwise.

Were you calling Terata a scumread here?
Why the Tereta town read now?

You actually give ECM a lot more credit than they actually deserve. If you are actually Town I'd like to see you cover more in depth on this.

How am I giving ECM "a lot more credit?" Or any credit at all in fact?

On to my read, you are mis repping the entire situation by saying that I was going to vote Chaos. If you think I am scummy based on a game error occurring because of me never playing on this site before and assuming I would help the game before I replaced out, then I think you are more scummy for trying to manipulate the situation.

What am I misrepping?
1) I said you voted Chaos (actually it was L-1 whereas I said L-2).
2) I said Frogger hammered two posts later.

I never said you were "going to vote Chaos" or brought up any "game errors"...I stated two facts.
So I repeat myself...What am I misrepping?

Given

you have hated me this entire game

, you basically went into every single day trying to make me look worse.

You also call me stupid all game,

and haven't even considered the "why would Unknown do that if he's Town" situation.

You have automatically assumed I'm scum

the entire game.

Quick ISO search...yep...never say the word hate. FYI I don't hate anyone on this site. I'm pretty indifferent about everyone in fact.

I never call you stupid.

Annnnnnd

I have not called you scum once this game

. In fact...I was town reading your predecessor D1 and the only time I suggest a willingness to vote you is today iirc.

... But

your entire read is based on VCA and very little of it is based on actual interactions

or you copy what I said (about the ignoring). I am probably more frustrated and find this entire interaction with you obvious to be scum because you already know that I've been scum-reading you the entire game and that getting rid of me would be easier for you.

I my post this morning which you gave this response based on....did I not say I planned to do ISO's on flipped scum and everyone still in the game? Before I put down my vote? smhsmhsmh

You also assume that I'm going to play how you would. I don't play stupid, and I never lynch my townreads. Never. Maybe I don't rely on night actions as much as you guys on this site but I have not seen you try to read me from a town perspective. (

The only thing you ever said was that my hammer vote on Sheep is not bad

but not good

).

You do not know what I assume unless I tell you. Nice ad-hom on me BTW.
And why are you whining about me not reading you from a town perspective? How the fcuk would you know how I am trying to read you?
And I said "Hammering scum is good"...I just added that your hammer was not "as good" because it was a foregone conclusion. Even your townread Terata said you didn't deserve any towncred for being on Sheep's wagon.

If you are Town,

I actually want you to analyze me with more than what you just did.

And don't read this post as an attack on you because I get aggressive when I disagree strongly with people's opinions and I can't change that.

Did I not say I was going to do this? Ffs.....

Starting at the top of your post, I am more annoyed that you began to defend yourself in advance of anyone accusing you based on not even questioning the lead and being the only person on that train.

I don't agree with your explanation. Frogger was never scum in that situation, and the fact that you think someone goes from obv town to completely scum without even thinking twice about it really bothers me.

If you are confident in Lowell being Town based on VCA, then I'm going to re-read because TBH I didn't reach the same conclusion as you.

Terata is Town and I don't see a reason to think otherwise.

You actually give ECM a lot more credit than they actually deserve. If you are actually Town I'd like to see you cover more in depth on this.

On to my read, you are mis repping the entire situation by saying that I was going to vote Chaos. If you think I am scummy based on a game error occurring because of me never playing on this site before and assuming I would help the game before I replaced out, then I think you are more scummy for trying to manipulate the situation.

Given you have hated me this entire game, you basically went into every single day trying to make me look worse. You also call me stupid all game, and haven't even considered the "why would Unknown do that if he's Town" situation. You have automatically assumed I'm scum the entire game.

I disagree with the VCA comment, but I'd rather see you explain that before just jumping on you anyways.

I am a fairly salty person sometimes when it comes to playing in games, not going to lie. But your entire read is based on VCA and very little of it is based on actual interactions or you copy what I said (about the ignoring). I am probably more frustrated and find this entire interaction with you obvious to be scum because you already know that I've been scum-reading you the entire game and that getting rid of me would be easier for you.

You also assume that I'm going to play how you would. I don't play stupid, and I never lynch my townreads. Never. Maybe I don't rely on night actions as much as you guys on this site but I have not seen you try to read me from a town perspective. (The only thing you ever said was that my hammer vote on Sheep is not bad but not good).

If you are Town, I actually want you to analyze me with more than what you just did. And don't read this post as an attack on you because I get aggressive when I disagree strongly with people's opinions and I can't change that.

I'll get to your post in a bit when I have more time to answer, but the first paragraph is in response how you explained why you decided to vote with Alisae over Frogger. If you believed it was the right decision regardless of flip you wouldn't try to justify it as an error.

[Unknown1234]

I actually think you are bullshitting because you only gave minus points to me. This is too funny and makes me less convinced to listen to you.

[Unknown1234]

Actually, I'm 100% comfortable voting you today and here is why.

1.) Alisae pulled a stupid gambit To lynch Frogger, knowing there would be two miss lynched remaining.

2.) Havingfitz goes along way too easily with the Frogger lynch, doesn't even think twice about it.

3. He has found nothing negative on Lowell or Terata, which means that he acknowledges he only needs two scum-reads and is trying to gain their trust (he does this an excessive amount, more than normal seeming).

4.) You act completely innocent and pretend to have had no conflict or bias against me.

5.) You conveniently manipulate the buddying information. YOU specifically in your last several posts have decided when Sheep and Alisae were buddying people and distancing. You ONLY make it negative when it is involving me, and this is evident by the fact that you failed to find ANY negative points on the other three people in the game.

6.) You barely mention Iaminnocent as well. It is clear that even though you are "iso'ing everyone" that the only person you plan to Scum-read has been me today. Not to mention that you claim that the ISO you did makes Iaminnocent more damning, even though he has 0 negative points and more positive points (unless I missed anything).

7.) You find 0 positive points for me, or leave them as null. If you are town, I find it near impossible that out of the entire ISO you found no positive notes on me. This backs up what I've been saying about you wanting to target me all of today.

8.) Your personality has changed today to be more friendly. In the previous days, you have been seen as a complete douche, but yet this day you haven't been aggressive at all like your usual self in past days.

9.) Alisae must have known that she would need a strong town to get them through two miss lunches. Given you are the only one who has been taking advantage of it, it would not surprise me at all if you were in agreement with her plan based on the fact that you would be able to build some fake cases on me and Iaminnocent, enough to get two miss lynches.

I will respond to the other post, but I don't think you are town and I'm 99% sure.

[Unknown1234]

Okay, I found one minus point for EC Mitchell/IamInnocent. Still not at all convinced.

[Unknown1234]

I literally said that earlier.

I also said that scum would try to be more convincing and not lurker scum, because winning due to being anlurker is stupid and makes you look bad.

[Unknown1234]

Actually, I'm 100% comfortable voting you today and here is why.

1.) Alisae pulled a stupid gambit To lynch Frogger, knowing there would be two miss lynched remaining.

2.) Havingfitz goes along way too easily with the Frogger lynch, doesn't even think twice about it.

3. He has found nothing negative on Lowell or Terata, which means that he acknowledges he only needs two scum-reads and is trying to gain their trust (he does this an excessive amount, more than normal seeming).

4.) You act completely innocent and pretend to have had no conflict or bias against me.

5.) You conveniently manipulate the buddying information. YOU specifically in your last several posts have decided when Sheep and Alisae were buddying people and distancing. You ONLY make it negative when it is involving me, and this is evident by the fact that you failed to find ANY negative points on the other three people in the game.

6.) You barely mention Iaminnocent as well. It is clear that even though you are "iso'ing everyone" that the only person you plan to Scum-read has been me today. Not to mention that you claim that the ISO you did makes Iaminnocent more damning, even though he has 0 negative points and more positive points (unless I missed anything).

7.) You find 0 positive points for me, or leave them as null. If you are town, I find it near impossible that out of the entire ISO you found no positive notes on me. This backs up what I've been saying about you wanting to target me all of today.

8.) Your personality has changed today to be more friendly. In the previous days, you have been seen as a complete douche, but yet this day you haven't been aggressive at all like your usual self in past days.

9.) Alisae must have known that she would need a strong town to get them through two miss lunches. Given you are the only one who has been taking advantage of it, it would not surprise me at all if you were in agreement with her plan based on the fact that you would be able to build some fake cases on me and Iaminnocent, enough to get two miss lynches.

I will respond to the other post, but I don't think you are town and I'm 99% sure.

1) What does this have to do with me?
2) I've explained my reasoning for this twice. You are free to disagree....at least two others did agree.
3) What have YOU found negative on Lowell and Terata? I've only ISO'd scum and did not see anything negative regarding Lowell or Terata in those ISOs. I suspected both of them to some degree D1 but that has changed by other game events.
4) Innocent of what? I suspect you today to begin with on POE and VCA. And I suspect there will more more once I ISO you. You need to look at your own ISO if you want to see someone tunnelling another player (i.e. me). Iirc you have expressed a desire to have me lynched every day. Something that you can not say I did towards you.
5) I commented on the scum ISOs when I saw living players mentioned. If you do not like what I found do your own ISOs and refute what I found.
6) ECM posted very little and IAI even less. What do you expect?
7) Are there any?
8) I've made 5 or 6 D5 posts....if I came across as friendly please forgive me.

And if you are going to call me stupid and a douche

our game relationship is going to take a drastic turn downward. Perhaps warranting mod involvement. Target my play but leave personal attacks out of the game.
9) You can assume what you want to fit the story you want. It will help you make up for the lack of facts you can point to. As for your comment about the 3rd mafia being someone strong...that entered my mind as well but I think it is just as likely that Alisae said fcuk it and didn't care what his partner wanted.

You have been coming out completely strong by doing over the top information however twisting it in your favour at the same time. The reason I brought this up is because they actually have to believe their teammate with survive two miss lynches.

I don't think anyone agreed with you not thinking twice about Froggers vote.

If you didn't remember, I was actually calling out Lowell and Terata as scum earlier. As of more recent, I have said stuff on Lowell but I don't think Terata is scum based on interactions and recent play. Don't know what you're getting at.

You are acting like you didn't have any grudges against me before today, which makes it look stupid and as if you are trying to make people believe you don't have bias against. It's quite obvious.

I've already spoken about why I don't like it, and it doesn't make me believe you any more. ive looked over it before and I can assure you that.

That's a weak answer. You were still able to get a few points on him, and he still apparently "looked more damning" according to you. Are you backing on that now that you don't have anything to prove he looks worse?

That's not a Town answer. You would have to assume that I'm the worst scum ever in which case you would have lynched me or at least pushed me before today.

I wasn't attacking you, what you quoted was me saying how you were playing by actions. I don't think I called you stupid. As for the point, you have suddenly become more aggressive since I brought it up, which makes me feel for it a bit more than I did before.

That's exactly what you did. You made things I did scummy even if someone did a completely identical action that was null or "scum hunting" and "not bussing". You made everything against me negative and cannot actually believe that I've done nothing all game. I can't believe that.

[Unknown1234]

I want to read again to see what I think of Terata.

Is there any role that would make it only one miss lynch as opposed to two? I just want to make sure we are guaranteed two lynches.

[Unknown1234]

Here's my own thoughts i took during the iso. I started writing down the post numbers half way through and it's super messy, but sry i don't have the energy to correct it all. Ask me if you're confused

Spoiler:

Gerry: #35 feels weirdly phrased in a way i could see being partners. "You would have preferred I denied something without even knowing what it was? " +

Chaos: " I'll remind people that I've had issues with Chaos for some time now, just in case anyone wants to have a complaint about me hopping on that wagon if it catches much more steam " "I'm still fine calling Chaos scum though, I just got there on the WK road." "we're discussing a scumread on Chaos." he seems to want to make it VERY clear he's scumreading Chaos and he seems very self-aware of what he's doing. So even though i think it would usually look good for Choas it gives me distancy vibes. He also had basically 2 scum reads in Hawk/Chaos but put all real pressure on Hawk and only mentioned Chaos in the passing. And later when the pressure on Lowell started he STILL kept Chaos as his second lynch and slipped in Lowell as first without really mentioning him much earlier.

Wheme: #632 really feels like spew. like hard spew. And with how sheep talked early about scum Whiteknighting, i wouldn't be suprised if that's a big part of his play.

EC: Just no interactions

Lowell: towntown "So you would have been okay with the pressure on WhemeStar if you'd thought of it before me? Is that a habit that will carry through the game? Feels like it would make you hard to cooperate with if town." He's using "@Lowell" several times for meh questions where it doesn't really fit in. Dunno what to make of that. #1291:i feel like scum often wants to avoid being seen as having tmi when talking about pre-flips. Maybe this read is dumb, but im giving lowell townpoints for sheep's post. Also the way Lowell jumped to sheep's top lynch towards the end and being the CW obviously looks good for Lowell

Penguin/Alisae: Basically no interactions, but Penguin didn't play and Alisae subbed in towards the end, so i won't read into that.

AJ: #223: "but I'll sheep AJ for the moment." a bit blatant if partners, but idk. "If you have suggestions for future games I'd love to hear them.." this doesn't strike me as a tone that's designed to please AJ, like it's been at other times to others. He's more lowkey salty for AJ pushing him, which could be because AJ was accusing a partner.

Naomi/HavingFitz: "That's an interesting way to look at it - I don't think I can fully come with you on it" "Why would you say there is red between us three when everything you've said on the matter has me and Terata as green. Isn't that an explicit contradiction."- Naomi. ++ #321 also +

Lil/unknown: "Avoiding LilUzi because he's currently less active." "You then attack Uzi (one of my attackers)" hm. The part in #321 where he responds to Lil's vote doesn't feel at all like a partner interactions. #1222 "I feel safe in the knowledge

you'll

have a lot of people to lynch before I'm the worst lurker " i think sheep's phrasing here is super spew-y

Frogg: towntown. Scum doesn't use 70% of their posts responding/trying to justify his own actions to a partner. thats a partner interaction approximately 0 % of the time.

interesting post connected to several: #1206: TMI/spew? or defending a partner in the claims?

I've iso'd Sheep to look for spew more than partner interaction, because they're much harder to differentiate. +++ = lock clear ++ = looks good, + = looks slightly good. - = something pinged me

+++: Frogg
++: Naomi/fitz, Lil/unknown, Wheme, Lowell
+: Gerry

- (ordered worst first): EC, Chaos, AJ

Interesting post.

[Unknown1234]

I wasn't around at this game,
But it WAS clear who wanted PP dead.

[Unknown1234]

what do you think of Terata's play from yesterday?

[Unknown1234]

People seem to be reading my normal play on my site as scummy from this site, which is quite dumb imo that very few of you right now have made your posts directed to me.

Talking to me is preferred over just stating me as scum. Because you'd be wrong.

[Unknown1234]

I phone post all the time, so it's awkward to respond to posts with several quotes and boxed sections too. Might just respond in parts.

[Unknown1234]

Are you trying to explain to me that you don't think buddying is bad from perspective? Given the first thing you did was address him and establish him as "Town and ez win" you basically get yourself in a position where if he is scum then he can easily manipulate you in his favour.

On the other hand, if you are scum then you are trying to get him on your side if you believe he is a strong Town player. Both make sense from my perspective.

If you're Town, being super friendly in a game of mafia doesn't work out well.

This isn't about the buddying.
Also please don't tell me how to play the game and how to play as town.
Thanks

Not sure if Lowell's last post has me but this sequence of posts doesn't help with that!

Explain this more.

[Unknown1234]

Okay, I'm back. And

Unknown

is the last scum. Let's go back to the beginning, and start with the best case he's NOT scum.

We have to interrupt this Bringer Mafia episode to make a special announcement. Do you want to save money on car insurance?

Vote Count #1.20:

Cooperative Sheep [LYNCHED] Terata, Fro99er, Hawk, Alisae, Whemestar, Lowell, Unknown1234

Lowell [L-2] Aj The Epic, Cooperative Sheep, Havingfitz, EcMitchell, ChaosOmega
Alisae [L-6] Gerryoat

Not Voting (0):

With 13 people alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2017-02-15 15:45:00)

Here's the D1 lynch. My feeling at the time, and up until the dawn of today, was that there was AT MOST one busser on sheep's wagon. The reasoning here was that, given daytalk, they could have easily swayed the lynch to me if there were two of them on sheep's wagon. Put a pin in that...

Wow, I lived.

Havingfitz was very determined to discourage my hammer vote and attempted to get me to switch to Lowell.....

Hmmm....

Both of these I've mentioned. They're suspicious as hell LAMIST posts. They make no sense from a town POV. No one in a 13-player game should say "wow, I lived" after N1. Even if Unknown was the single driving force for the sheep wagon (he wasn't), it reeks of faux surprise.

So then Ali claims guilty result on frogger. Obvious 1v1. Somehow Unknown gets to here:

Sue me for not knowing roles.

If there is 0 chance feedback is altered, I'd pick Ali over Frogger any day.

If I'm wrong, then Frogger did well and Ali really sucks. As bad a Havingfitz.

VOTE: Ali

I don't think I'm wrong though.

Why? VT v. powerrole, lynch the VT first. Where does Unknown's confidence that Ali was pulling an insane gambit come from? While most ppl were thinking "what the hell would Ali have to gain by lying to kill a VT," Unknown seemed to know ali was lying. Only, he doesn't really explain this in a way that would give anyone else a reason to jump from the frogger wagon. Just sort of distances himself from the frogger lynch.

Y'all are dumb as fuck.

VOTE: Alisae

And the payoff. He could easily have pushed this earlier if had reasons. Instead he wants to make everyone who voted frogger look like an idiot.

If Lowell/Terata is scum then wp.

VOTE: HavingFitz

This is the post that swayed me. This conclusion just seems too pat for any number of reasons. First, why would a town player just casually elimate 2/4 players from the lynch pool given that we presumably have two lynches left?

Second, it VERY much looks like he's dying to pocket me. I have been saying from the beginning that AT LEAST one scum must be off the sheep wagon. So who does gerry's death benefit then? There are now only two players off the wagon (IaI and fitz) and two chances to lynch. If scum were one of those two, why wouldn't they kill off terata or me or Unknown in order to keep the number of non-sheep-bussing lynchable candidate pool higher? As it is, if I follow through with my plan of assuming both scum didn't wagon, I'm left with--surprise!--the same lynch pool as Unknown.

Also, in #1966 (I lost the link), Unknown says that if Ali is scum, fitz probably isn't. So what changed?

Everything in this post except the last post is being read as I'm confirmed scum. You aren't assuming what I would do if I'm Town, which makes no sense to do.

I die a lot on my site n1 and n2 due to being almost always around and actively participating. I'll admit that it took me some time to get used to things on another site, so that probably wasn't something I should have expected. That being said, no clue why this part makes sense as a scum play so I want to hear you explain this.

I already explained my obvious stand point, and it clearly doesn't correspond how you people play. I don't rely as much on night actions, and so if I had a super strong scum read and someone I was suspicious about right out of the get go, no way I'm believing a lead. If you are going to find it scummy how my play differs, then that's how it's going to be. Most reads are based on my regular play.

Again, if you believe I'm scum that's been trying way too hard to look Town all game, then you should really look again. I wasn't going to vote Frogger, and Alisae was always going to be my vote because I didn't believe the claim. I've seen worse gambits.

Last post is where you don't make sense. Sure, I went into the day expecting to agree with Frogger and lynch both of those players like he wanted to. However, if it wasn't obvious to you I have been back tracking on what I said and have been considering other people. I still wouldn't be surprised if scum were still in both of them, but I have been reconsidering. I don't see why you think I'm specifically pocketing you, because I actually haven't even addressed you yet or been forcing anyone to death. You also seem to think I'm the one that has been "pocketing" the most, which I disagree with.

Lastly, it is obvious how my Havingfitz read changed. He wasn't able to slightly consider any Town motivation in my posts and said that everything I've done has been scummy. You don't even question that do you? You guys play so much weirder than I do.

[Unknown1234]

Also, the vote count you provided has been something that made me think of you as Town more when it was brought up in the earlier days. Don't know how likely the chances are both scum have the leading trains at L-2, because I have yet to see that happen.

[Unknown1234]

Unless you believe scum had all the votes on day 1, Lowell isn't very likely to be scum.

[Unknown1234]

Are you trying to explain to me that you don't think buddying is bad from perspective? Given the first thing you did was address him and establish him as "Town and ez win" you basically get yourself in a position where if he is scum then he can easily manipulate you in his favour.

On the other hand, if you are scum then you are trying to get him on your side if you believe he is a strong Town player. Both make sense from my perspective.

If you're Town, being super friendly in a game of mafia doesn't work out well.

This isn't about the buddying.
Also please don't tell me how to play the game and how to play as town.
Thanks

Not sure if Lowell's last post has me but this sequence of posts doesn't help with that!

Explain this more.

The whole back and forth on that page felt off. Commens like "If you're Town, being super friendly in a game of mafia doesn't work out well" & "Also please don't tell me how to play the game and how to play as town" when one of the players flipped scum and the other is still alive could be scum coaching.

Then you would have to assume that the arguments that we had since the start of Ali's arrival are fabricated. I know I'm not scum and the only reason this logic is incredibly far fetched is because unless you think Ali made the plan as soon as she replaced in, then there would be no point of "bussing" at their arrival so quickly without being able to discuss.

[Unknown1234]

My wagon has 0 resistance. Do you really think a scum would be lynched so easily

well, let's assume you're scum for a second. then there's only 2 scum outside of you. And i don't think most people would put themselves out there to hard defend you as a teammate with how much pressure there's been on you today. Tbh i think they would just bus or just assess where the flow is going.

So i don't think the fact that there's not much resistance to your lynch makes you town

Continues to push a power role lynch, with 0 push to the Sheep or Penguin/Alisea slots to this point anyway

This isn't a fair argument. Most people did that.

[Unknown1234]

You are quoting posts that happened half the game ago. Havingfitz did the exact same thing, and it's weird if you are implying my reads aren't allowed to change.

[Unknown1234]

Honestly, Frogger had so much confidence in his read on Alisae. Given Frogger was targeted by Alisae in attempt to get rid of a leader, it is obvious that this reads must have been mostly accurate otherwise he would have been leading incorrect lynches. It makes me much more confident in Terata.

TBH, I don't know how much Frogger was convinced in Havingfitz being scum. I'm really reconsidering my read right now on him but will really need to reconsider.

I think I am Innocent actually might be my least favourite. Especially given Frogger and Gerry both thought that I am Innocent were scum, and that I was never a fan of EC Mitchell that it is potentially him.

[Unknown1234]

After reading through EC Mitchell's posts, there is very little to no reference to Alisae/PP or Sheep. There is a brief mention at the early stage of the game that he says that he thinks Sheep is scum, but it is never followed through on and is eventually dropped. (He wanted Wheme, Terata, and Sheep as his scum team but later only focus on Terata and Wheme).

He also called for a Vig shot on Wheme, which we now realize that wheme was an important PR. That never sat well with me but it feels reinforced now.

[Unknown1234]

Hi Everyone,

I'm glad to see this game got shunted right out of the RVS. I've read through all pages up until this point, and I do have some general reads. First, I want to say that I deliberately skipped reading Naomi's introduction post the moment I realized what it was. No offense, Naomi, but if you start all of your games that way, I'd very quickly want to avoid playing with you. It's an excuse in advance of scummy behavior; despite it likely being honest, the fact is, if your behavior is scummy regardless of alignment, you're still a detriment to town. Rather than attempting to safeguard your defensiveness from the start—hoping it serves to keep you in the game longer—I recommend learning to evolve your play style so as to not appear scummy, regardless of alignment. The "Green" vs. "Red" clarification is helpful, though, so thank you for that.

Fro99er, you certainly have an abrasive play style. Not something I appreciate, but likely something I can get use to. Voiding your posts of connotations, I generally agree with your sentiments, up until now at least. You are parroting your defense of comparing Cooperative Sheep to Axel from another game, however, which is coming across as slightly desperate. Despite some pressure coming off of Cooperative Sheep, you still seem very committed to going after them. To confirm, would you like to see Cooperative Sheep lynched today?

Cooperative Sheep has handled the initial pressure

very

scrupulously, and at the moment I wouldn't have any issue going through with a D1 lynch on them. Terata's responses throughout have also rubbed me the wrong way, particularly how he appearingly defended Cooperative Sheep in saying, "It's likely you just handle your defense awkwardly, regardless of alignment." Shortly after, though, he joined in on the pressure on Cooperative Sheep, flat-out calling him scum. To me it appears he was attempting to play both sides in the event Cooperative Sheep might have actually been lynched so quickly—or in the event everyone backed off and he could be seen as one who wasn't as aggressive in an uncertain lynch.

Gerryoat's posts up until now have been primarily filler.

I hardclaim town.

Was hoping to flip scum but alas, we are where we are

R u calling me maf

someone else vote so i can activate my 1 shot triple vote

I hardclaimed town. You can't be suspect of me

At least me saying something was a slip got this game moving out of RVS. lmao

My role is powerful btw. So I don't get lynched today

While true that your call-out on Cooperative Sheep got things rolling, you really haven't contributed anything at all yet, despite the game clearly exiting the RVS. Quite a bit of discussion has occurred in the past several pages. Do you have any reads or opinions at this point in the game? I am curious to know your thoughts.

Good luck, and have fun everyone.

Reading through this actually really bothers me. This is their first post when replacing into the game, and you can actually see a reference to Terata and how she is 'buddying' and defending Sheep. I can't tell if this is an early set up or a genuine thought.

[Unknown1234]

Havingfitz, if you actually believe it's me, lynch me first but if you are town I would rather see I am Innocent lynched over you right now.

[Unknown1234]

I don't like how both people who questioned me are your Town-reads. Seems to conveniently easy to just pick me off and then put a strong case against a relatively harder lynch.

[Unknown1234]

Given EC was entirely inactive actually makes more sense for Ali to do it. Leaves less options and a replace out leaves for a fresh start. Could be a matter of activity and the fact that very few people trusted EC.

You just went sassy which I find funny. As if you are going completely aggressive on me for suspecting you.

[Unknown1234]

That's my point. You can spend your time getting miss lynch #1 off if you're scum with your strongest case. The other two have already gladly shown support for my lynch.

[Unknown1234]

Also, you can say that I didn't interact with Penguin, but Penguin didn't make a SINGLE post after I made my first post, so that isn't accurate. I did interact with Alisae a lot more however and questioned them as soon as they arrived.

[Unknown1234]

You didn't read what I said if that's your response. I never said EC was town-read I said nobody would believe them.

[Unknown1234]

FYI, you said "try again" implying you think I'm purposely trying to make you look scummy or discredit you. If you thought Terata was scum, what need would you have to say that.

[Unknown1234]

You can't act like that is AI. Specific people will put lots of effort into catch ups, but I don't know you at all so I can't say that you wouldn't do this as scum. Without meta that point is invalid.

[Unknown1234]

I change my mind way too quickly and jump to conclusions sometimes. Normally I'm confident in my reads but for some reason I'm not confident right now.

Going to look again.

[Unknown1234]

You didn't read what I said if that's your response. I never said EC was town-read I said nobody would believe them.

Ok I missed that, my apologies. Tho I strongly disagree, fake claim is a fake claim, I've played on this site long enough to tell you nearly 100% of the time people go with the fake claim in a non LyLo/MyLo situation.

They key part is "this site" because I don't play on this site. Things work differently.