Mini 388: DOOMsville II {Game Over!}
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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sorry guys it has taken so long to post. i couldnt get into the board for about a week. upon reading of course in the first two pages there isnt much so i will withhold my vote for now. i need a chance to sit down and actually read so that i can figure out who is who. i always have a hard time with that in the beginning of games.-
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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sorry guys, that post was in regards to SL's long post on page four where she confirm voted me with no purpose and on the very next page she jumped off...
(i tried to post before i finished reading, i usually type my ideas into the box at the bottom while i am reading and then work from there as to if my ideas change or not, but that time i hadnt finished reading the next page before i posted my idea. so to clarify that post above has everything to do with SL's long post on page 4)-
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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just because someone does something in another game does not mean that they are any less scummy if they do it in this game. to me, it doesnt matter if SL lies in other games, if she does in this game it is scummy. therefore i find her scummy no matter how she plays in other games.Umm, ShadowLurker lies as town. In Leper mafia he claimed Kamikaze when he was vanilla.
and to SL's...
my sentence was a reply to whoever said that why would you lie about something that could so easily be disproved. my point was no matter what your reply was it could be taken as WIFOM logic, which means it could go either way... for scum or for town... and, lying would be a good enough reason for me to vote for someone.kilmenator wrote:
how was me voting for SL scummy in any sense? The logic of the lying vote or whatever is WIFOM... so why would it matter if that was why I was voting her? So far the only person I really get any sort of scum vibes from is SL so that is where my vote is.
That made as much sense as Max does on drugs. When does this sentence ever make sense: " The logic of the lying vote or whatever is WIFOM..." ?? Even if it did, WIFOM and "lying vote" don't seem to be good reasons for voting someone.
SL's play is not pro-town therefore that is where my vote will stay.-
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kilmenator Goon
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my understanding of WIFOM is that it could be a scum tell or a townie tell, or someone could say..."If i were scum i would never have done that"... and someone else could say, "If i were town, i would never have done that" so that was my point, that you could say, i would never have done it as scum...
and about the vote... if it was a confirm vote did you think you were already voting me? because it would not have made sense to confirm vote if you were nto voting me, and then what was the point in that instead of saying FOS or something else? and why go through the trouble of bolding if it wasnt a real vote?-
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kilmenator Goon
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I dont think it was the generating discussion part that got targetted. I think it was the way in which you generated the discussion. Why not throw out a No Lynch or something like that to generate discussion instead of how you were acting? And honestly I dont like how turbo seems to always be coming to the defense of SL. Maybe it is nothing, but I think that SL should defend herself because she is the one who put herself in this situation.
So, on to new topics. I would like to hear more from other people, and would like to hear their takes on what is going on.-
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kilmenator Goon
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turbo said:
ummm... no lynch isnt always a scummy move. and i have NEVER before been in a game where someone confirm voted someone they were not even voting. and by what you just said, what SL did was a classically scummy move, why then are you voting me and not SL? and why have you been defending SL all game when you yourself just said that it was a scummy move?I like the way you arbitrarily suggest no lynch as a better alternative to confirm voting somebody you aren't voting. Both are 'classically scummy' moves that are used early game solely to get things going, so I don't know why one would be better than the other. I get the feeling you don't either, and made that post up as you went.
i am comfortable with where my vote is and has been most of the game and could defintely see a turbo-SL pair as scum.-
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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it looks to me like you have voted at least 4 times first ozy, then falcone i think, then ozy, then friday... and when you look at only your posts, they come basically in that order... and then there is the issue of the confirm vote on me that wasnt really a vote...hmmm.. anyway, my vote on you was because i dont like your unsubstantial posts that come with just quotes of other and WTF...
and i wasnt ready to put either patrick or chess at 3 votes because i honestly dont want to spark anothe debate about whether 3 votes is scummy or not and so forth. so SL got my vote. obviously SL isnt in any serious trouble since i am the only one voting for him. anyway... my logic...-
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kilmenator Goon
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give me a break... first of all, this game is so messed up because in another game i am in there are like 2 or three players who are here too... so i keep getting names messed up... i you will read the thread you will see why i would be voting patrick and chess because my reasons are listed in another post. i didnt put them at three because i find the discussion of a third vote useless and didnt want to spark it yet again. if i didnt want to take the heat for a third vote then i never would have mentioned it. i think that you and SL are scum buddies or one of you is buddying up to the other because at least one of you are scum and you will take the other down with you. and, to answer the question as to why i think SL is defending you it is because it seems that when you two post you post very similar ideas or you kind of attack the people who are attacking you guys. and example would be if attack SL then you (turbo) attack me. or visa versa. anyway, just my thoughts.-
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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ok guys, my brother in law whom i havent seen in a long time flew in last night,, i will need a couple of days to reread and get my thoughts together. until then i will unvote, no sense in having my vote somewhere i dont think it will later... so give me a bit, i am going to print off the thread (yes i know how much that is) and get a good reread in in the meantime.-
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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i apologize ahead of time for this super long post.
ok, now for my apologies to basically everyone. first of all, i am sorry chadow lurker for totally attacking you with basically no premise whatsoever. for some reason, i had you confused with STD in newbie 288. so sorry for throwing mud at you. so sorry to anyone i attacked. basically here is the deal. i read my games, but now that i am in three games for the first time i was confusing them. when i was talking about chess and patrick, that was totally the other game, when i said the deal about the three vote thing, what was also the other game. the reason i said something about the third vote and not going there was because in the other newbie game i am in, there was like a bunch of discussion over whether or not it was scummy in a newbie game to put a third on someone, i said i didnt want to bring that up again because in that game it was a bit crazy.
so now for my opinion on stuff, here goes.
1. shadowlurker- i dont like how many of his posts consist of basically quotes and three letters. i would feel much better if he just quoted and then explained why he disagreed, this is not altogether scummy, but it may be a way to be posting and making comments, while not really making comments.
2. ozy- i dont find him particularly scummy, but i dont like that he seems to be lurking (not the biggest lurker i know, but still lurking) and seems quick to point out that there are others who are lurking worse, i also dont like this quote by him. maybe i am wrong, but it seems to me that he is saying, he shouldnt have changed his vote for fear that he would get votes on him, which to me is a lousy reason not to change your vote if you feel that you should. why would you worry how many votes you might get if you have no reason to hide, or was it more so that attention was not drawn to him?
3. falcone/adele-falcone really didnt say much but to disagree with SL a lot. much of what he said was valid, but i dont really see him as scummy. i would like to hear from adele, as that could change my thinking.Ozymandius wrote: I changed my vote once, and Turbo did it before me, although perhaps I shouldn't have, since he got two votes placed on him after he did.
4. friday- man, how random. reading his posts give me a headache because they are so all over the place. i dont really like the use of his language, but being that he was overly defensive about it i porbably shouldnt have bought it up. friday doesnt really say much but seems to go after rosso for not really giving a reason as to why he wants someone lynched. to me that is a very petty reason for voting for someone. i guess maybe i have played with BJ too much because that doesnt really bother me.
5. geraintm- not much to say, seems pro-town. seems to be very aware of who is in the game and what is going on. i like that he doesnt seem to post crap just to talk, but then again that could be bad too because we dont get much of a read on him.
6.MBL/sotty- ok, MBL hasnt said much, other than a vote with no reasons- and not really much of a read on sotty before that. a vote on bird, six posts from her with basically nothing in any of them. the only post that would even maybe have some substance would be when she talks about the SL and Falcone thing. but that really isnt much.
7. patrick- seems pro-town in that he doesnt really attack people without cause. he seems to have a good idea of what is going on in the game and is very aware of discrepencies in peoples play. many posts with lots of opinion so seems pro-town at this point.
8. rosso- not liking his play at all. he is all over the place with votes and just jumps around without giving reason at all to his why. on Dec. 7 says he will rehash things tomorrow, but then nothing until Dec. 15 when he casts a vote with no reason. i dont mind the let's lynch so and so, but dont like that he says it is to get reactions and yet fails to react at all to others reaction, so to me it seems like he is trying to get others to appear scummy, while acting crazy, but not overly scummy. the only thing that settles his acts with me is the fact that mert(confirmed scum) votes him, not much but worth the comment i think.
9. turbo- not overly scummy. lots to read from though which is a good thing when things get going. not afraid to be controversial, which is good because that makes me think that he is town who is willing to go for scum. although that could also be a cover. also, voted by mert, again, not worth much but worth the comment.
so, with all that being said. give me a bit to think over what i have said. i gave opinions based on each persons posts individually, so i need to think about how it all works out in my head. thanks for being so patient with me and so sorry for the mix-up. again, these are just my thoughts taken as parts without looking at the whole.
good scum name, but no- it is taken from part of my last name.Turbovolver wrote: You "killmenator" people at night, don't you?-
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kilmenator Goon
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turbo- quite honestly, what i did took way to much time and i wanted a little time to digest what i had posted. still need a little time to think it over, but my vote will probably land on either rosso or ozy. but i still need a little time to process. so give me some time to think, but expect a vote in the next day.-
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kilmenator Goon
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ok, for now, with my thoughts semi-cleared... and christmas on the way along with a deadline that hopefully will soon be extended or removed. i want to vote MrBuddyLee, he hasnt said much accept a post with no logic, also, bird111 had been voting him and maybe bird had some info on him. bird111 was confirmed town as the watchman, so for now that is where my vote is.-
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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ok, lots going on here now. yay! my thoughts... i dont really like ozy's play much but am not comfortable with him not being around, so i really dont want to put a vote on him especially not knowing his role. i also dont like that patrick doesnt find it a big deal to put a vote on him and uses the logic that if ozy had a power role he would have told us already.
my biggest concern of all is MBL who has posted once or twice, has now picked up his prod and yet still has nothing to say with all of this going on. we didnt even get a "hey guys im busy, will post later". so while i am not a huge fan of going after lurkers, MBL really needs to put some kind of opinion in here, we know he is around yet he fails to post...-
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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sorry there Patrick, this is the quote I meant to be responding toPatrick wrote:
Actually I said the opposite:kilmenator wrote:i also dont like that patrick doesnt find it a big deal to put a vote on him and uses the logic that if ozy had a power role he would have told us already.
Patrick wrote:Not really. If he has a powerole, he would try and keep it hidden if at all possible, not reveal it the minute he has a few votes. As with a newbie game, a claim should be the last line of defence so to speak.
ok, so here are my thoughts, I also think Ozy needs to claim so that we can decide about a lynch. Ozy hasnt had the best defense and right now appears to be scummiest (although MBL IMO is pretty scummy too). If I had to chose right now, I would lynch Ozy, but I dont feel comfortable not knowing his role and possibly lynch an important power role. A no lynch to me isnt really a bid deal but I would much rather scum hunt than I would no lynch anyday.geraintm wrote: why the push towards a claim now though, ozy has been on 4 votes, enough to get him lynched if we go to a deadline, for ages. If Ozy had felt under threat wouldn't he have mentioned a role earlier?
And to MBL- I didnt mention Ozy, because everyone else already had and I had nothing new to add to the conversation. What I dont like about you is your basically one line posts where you give no logic to at all, just opinion with nothing to back it up. You have basically been lurking since you replaced with three posts with not much there. If you think I am misdirecting attention away from Ozy, what is it that you find scummy about him being that you really havent posted and why then were you voting me when you found him scummy? The timing of me saying something comes from the Mod saying you picked up your prod yet failed to post and then when I say something about you lurking you post. Interesting correlation. What do you think Adele single focus has been and why do you think she has had that focus. You give ambiguous statements and then do not back them up.-
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kilmenator Goon
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MBL you are completely avoiding giving any logically reasonings for any of your opinions. If your logic holds true about the relationship with Adele and I, then why doesnt it hold true with Ozy and I? Hmm??? And I have been reading the game more carefully, everyone is entitled to mistakes. Do you think someone carelessly reading the game is a scum tell? Because if it is, then maybe you should give more opinion about what is going on rather than making off hand statements like you are.MrBuddyLee wrote:Scum is much more likely to read carelessly.
Scum is also not likely to write that sentence you wrote to attract attention to a relationship between them and their partner. So I'm going to operate for now on the belief that Ozy and kil are scum and Adele is not.-
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kilmenator Goon
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wow, i missed the whole fifteenth page, must be i did not look back and read after i realized what happened during day. maybe this sounds like a stupid idea, but i would like to hear a claim from MBL, if everyone else thinks it is ok. i will also explain why if someone would like to hear why. otherwise i can just drop the thing and hope other people see MBL as scummy.-
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kilmenator Goon
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MBL- the reason I did not make such a comment was because I had not realized he had actually claimed. I find you much more scummy than I do ozy. In case you did not notice, there isnt a vote on ozy from me. My vote lies on you being I find you scummy. I have not yet reread to see who got the bandwagon on ozy yet, so I will not make comment on it yet again until I get a chance to reread instead of muddying the water even more. Why MBL do you fail to comment at all? And why were you on the bandwagon for Ozy if you never gave reasons as to why you would jump there?
Patrick- essentially, I just want to know if MBL is vanilla or not. If he is a power role, I will leave it alone. But if he is vanilla, I would like him to claim as such. My reasoning goes a lot further than that, I just think it would be smarter to see if his claim is vanilla or not. Just trust me on this one, as if I exlain to much it it may mess something more up. My role allows me to find some information about people, and I want to know more about Ozy. If Ozy is vanilla, then it does allow scum to know more about him, but I would bet if he is vanilla, he would be an unlikely lynch tonight being that scum may go more for a power role than they would for vanilla.-
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kilmenator Goon
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you are probably right MBL, but i just wanna know if you are vanilla or not. I am pro- town, and I am taking a stab in the semi lit doors of my mind, if others think I am stupid and should let it go. I will, but I am taking a stab at scum hunting and want to know. If others dont think it is a good idea, I will lay off.-
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kilmenator Goon
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Ozy- Yeah, I knew who was on the wagon, not who started the wagon. My comment was to say that I did not remember who got the bandwagon started yet.
I will lay off from MBL with the role stuff, but I do believe him to be scum and wanted to know what he would claim, maybe that was stupid, I dont know, but I wanted to know how he would react.
Vote:MBL-
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kilmenator Goon
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unvoteas MBL pretty much cleared my suspicions of him. I need a reread, I would like to see what all adele/falcone (I think that is who she replaced) have had to say. I also would like to get a good read on turbo again.
My opinion on a mass claim- while I am one who likes to have an idea of peoples roles just because it narrows it down in my mind and the fact of counter claims and such giving us more information, right now, being that my suspicions of MBL are clear I think we should wait possibly, being that two roles were basically kind of claimed but not really claimed, both of them being two pro town power roles I think we should wait for now, unless everyone thinks we should go on with it.
Mod Edit: bolded the unvote-
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kilmenator Goon
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ok, well I will make a claim if everyone else thinks that is wise, but before i make a claim i would like to hear MBL's claim, just for my own benefit. Now, what does everyone else think about this? I would like to hear from Klebian, Turbovolver, geraintm before we go anywhere else. And Shadow, dont you think you should unvote if you think Ozy is pretty much cleared?-
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kilmenator Goon
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MBL- in my opinion i have found your play to be scummy. when i asked about your role, i assumed you would claim townie. i also assumed who scum would target last night and after i said what i did, i realized not only scum would target him but others also. Obviously someone else targetted the victim as well, so I was not sure in my own mind whether or not you were scum or something else. So, with all the being said, when you said you were not a vanilla, I layed off because now I know what your role is. Maybe it was stupid of me, because I was assuming you were scum all along and that just fueled my fire, but I realize now I was wrong. Sorry about that.-
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kilmenator Goon
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Ok to answer everyone's suspicions about MBL, I assume MBL is a power role that we need. I at this point do not feel comfortable bringing out what I think that is, although, if I did then there would be opportunity to counter claim what I think he is claiming and therefore would definetly clear him in my mind. Honestly, I dont know what to think of this game being that I think most people will have power roles based on the other game.-
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kilmenator Goon
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[quote="ShadowLurker"]I don't believe too much speculation on the kill/killer until it comes out is a good idea as it will distract us from finding scum.
For the moment though, I'm leaning toward the killer being protown.[/quote]
SL- could you tell me why you think the day kill was pro-town? Not that I didnt think some of Patrick's actions were sort of scummy, but for the most part I thought he was a pro-town player. I almost thought him as a cop because of this post here
[quote="Patrick"]I still would like ppl to comment on whether or not a second cop should come out if there is one. I would like to confirm Shadowlurker's sanity. If we can do that, then we're virtually there unless the doc falls tonight.[/quote]
Just because why would he ask such a question without assuming that there was another cop.
I tend to lean the opposite was because I think that the day-kill was probably scum killing, possibly because there was no night kill last night. I dont really know, this is all speculation for me.
As for Klebian, His analysis seems to be pretty fair, but I dont really see him offering any opinions of who he thinks is scummy. I dont like that at all, being that by not offering those opinions we do not really have any information on him, other than the fact that he can summarize the game (which for me was very helpful because it was a good memory refresher.)
I would also like to hear something from Colonel Kurtz so that we at least know he is here. This is all I have for right now, I wouldnt mind putting more pressure on klebian, but will do so after things slow down for him and he finishes his reread/analysis unless that seems to take forever.-
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kilmenator Goon
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I am not saying that I know who did it, I was just speculating, not drawing connections between anyone and Patrick, it is solely based on opinion, therefore you are right, it is WIFOM logic, but it is the opinion that I hold. I find it interesting that everyone else feels that it is a pro-town player who day killed him.-
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kilmenator Goon
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How is stating my opinion on whether or not scum killed Patrick buttering myself up to him? I stated I thought he seemed pro-town, and was possibly another cop therefore, I found it interesting that someone would day vig him. I dont think that is scummy at all, unless stating your opinion is scummy. But hey, that is just my opinion, that is all. Could someone please explain to me why they think he would have been day vigged?-
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[quote="geraintm"]
and what i meant wasi found it odd the way you linked yourself to Patrick's townness after the event it was proved.
[/quote]
I guess I didnt realize that I linked myself to him, could you tell me where I did that. And yes MBL, I am pro-town. Klebian had time to do a quick post, but has not done really anythign else. I would like to know what is going on with him and Colonel Kurtz.
I would also like to hear why people think it was a day vig who got rid of patrick.-
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kilmenator Goon
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Reason for discussing the day kill- I guess my thoughts were that it generate discussion on Patrick, therefore bring forward differering opinions and anything that does that is good for the town. Discussion helps, discussion is a form of scum hunting.
I dont see the fact that I quoted Patrick and stated that I thought he was a second cop to be going to great lengths to say I thought he was innocent. And the reason I brought up the fact that I thought him a little scummy was because at points I did find him scummy, not scummy enough for a day vig though.
And after looking at the set up of the other DOOM game, I dont think ozy should entirely be let off the hook.-
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kilmenator Goon
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[quote="klebian"]Seriously, what is with your rude responses? She found it interesting because apparently she thought patrick seemed to be pro-town, and thus she thinks that a protown dayvig wouldn't kill patrick. When you're going to respond, respond to the whole thing she says. All you're doing is picking on the newbie-ish players who apparently don't word things the way you would.[/quote]
Being that klebian has had a couple of days to finish his reread and analysis and has yet to complete it, I think we should put more pressure on him. I wouldnt think it was a big deal except he posted in and has obviously been checking in to see what is going on, and yet hasnt finished. I would also like to request [b]prod[/b]s on all who havent posted in a while.-
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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klebian, i have not responded to your first half analysis because i wanted to see the finished product before i put any thought into it. i know that when i personally do a reread, my opinions sometimes will change as i progress through the game. the reason i have not put pressure on noriel is because i think she is pretty much cleared, being that i do think that shadow is the daycop and therefore she would be cleared in my mind. i will admit that i havent put much thought into if SL is sane or not, so, i guess you are right, i would like to here from noriel, colonel kurtz, and the rest of your analysis, if you are busy, i would appreciate it if you would at least mention that in your post so we know what is going on. the whole reason i brought it out was because you mentioned finishing and then your next post mention nothing about it. and why would i not like your last post? essentially you were agreeing with me and sticking up for me, so why would that have bothered me? anyway,mod prodplease on those who havent posted in a while, specifically colonel kurtz... and thanks so much SL for the help, i am often an idiot when it come to computers...-
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kilmenator Goon
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[quote="klebian"]Seriously, what is with your rude responses? She found it interesting because apparently she thought patrick seemed to be pro-town, and thus she thinks that a protown dayvig wouldn't kill patrick. When you're going to respond, respond to the whole thing she says. All you're doing is picking on the newbie-ish players who apparently don't word things the way you would.[/quote]
You voted for me because I did not like this response? Interesting... I guess I dont understand why, but we are all entitled to our own opinion, even if others think it stinks. Anyway, when do you expect to finish up your reread/analysis so we have a time table to work with.-
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kilmenator Goon
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my point was that i did not like your last post, as you tried to point out yourself by mentioning who did agree with you. the think i didnt like wasnt necessarily what you said, it was the tone and the way you stuck up for me that i did not like. i wanted to make a point to you that it wasnt necessarily the last post that bothered me, but the fact that you were avioding finishing the analysis. maybe that doesnt make sense to you, but essentially i was makiing a point that i didnt like it, but the reason i did not like it was not what you were saying but the way the post came across, i also felt that you were avoiding finishing up that analysis you promised and trying to buddy up with me.klebian wrote: And kilm, although you may not have liked my last post, adele and norinel both responded to turbovolver's response to me, and essentially AGREED WITH ME. I really don't like how you've been playing today.FoS: klimenator
my other question is was the vote placed because i was putting pressure on you to finish the analysis or because you find me scummy? because it seems to me that you are either genuinely misunderstanding me or... your vote is totally WIFOM.-
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kilmenator Goon
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as i said in post 548, it wasnt his post that bothered me as much as it was the fact that he was supposed to be too busy to finish his reread/analysis, and yet has time to come in and post something to make someone else look bad. his post was essentially sticking up for me so it wasnt what his post was saying, it was the fact of when and why he posted and yet didnt finish the analysis and him trying to buddy up with me, i did not like it at all. i also did not like how he tried to point out who did agree with his post and such. sorry for the confusion in the posting next time i will have to be more clear.-
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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kilmenator Goon
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Just a note on Ozy, major metagaming or whatever here, but if you take a look at the setup of the other doom game, there were people who got lynched on the side of the town and turned against it because they couldnt be lynched, and visa versa, if Ozy is either of those two roles, I would bet he would be anti-town in the beginning and now with the town, just going on the fact that he didnt explain a role, just said he was unlynchable. That is my opinion for what it is worth. I need some time to think and then psot some more.-
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kilmenator Goon
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