Open 569 ~ Hope + 1 ~ Game Over!

[Team 9]

Join the bert wagon.
I wanna see hime flail.

[Team 9]

Also since when varsoon used a meta?

[Team 9]

ㄱㅅㄱ

[Team 9]

Actually the quickest replacement is when you already have one in the replacement queue, Feirei.

--M

[Team 9]

Nice username. Top-down reflection of the word Voodoo.

-C

[Team 9]

I have my reasons.

They're both at least probably scum. I just can't see how start is town.

Have you played with Bert before?

-C

[Team 9]

I'm surprised that he hasn't scumread me yet with a heart sign.

-C

[Team 9]

I've never seen Bert townreading me when we played.
Never.

[Team 9]

Scum Titus feels a lot more calculating, parsed out (lots of logical explanation for going with popular wagons), and never busses. The Titus here has been flopping votes around, doesn't seem to have direction, and is going with unpopular wagons.

Then again, meta experience is arbitrary.

what I'm seeing in Titus' play is smth completely different and, from a meta standpoint, smth I don't remember her ever doing as town

do you think there's any particular town motivation in flopping votes around and not having direction? if not, do you think she can't fake as scum?

-Rumia

[Team 9]

btw I agree with Bert scum. he has been completely underwhelming so far. I'm not sure if it makes sense for Bert and Titus to be scum together, but that's for later.

Bulge might be scum too. there's no scumhunting, even while he's been here, and a lot of the posts he did make are the kinds of posts that's the easiest shit to fake as scum: complaining about pages, giving a bunch of reasons for not posting anything, etc.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

However, it shouldn't look like scum me either.

it's not primarily a meta read. it's a motivation based read. however, it happens to be smth I remember you doing in a lot of your posts in gundam mafia, and that I've never seen you do as town.

question: when you made 911, what made you believe there was any chance of either of them actually listening to you?

[Team 9]

holy shit i think it's literally just titus/bert/bulge

-Rumia

[Team 9]

like he hasn't even done anything yet

don't you think he would have done at least ~something~ by now if he was town?

generally town who lurk at least have some thoughts on the game, even if they don't have enough time to elaborate on them. instead, he was able to make like 5 posts complaining about pages and explaining why he wasn't able to post anything. then he goes and, where he could have said at least something about the game, instead clarifies how his alt works and explains MVP = GIF. it's scum lurking 101.

do you disagree?

-Rumia

[Team 9]

But now I get what you're saying about Gundam Seed. Even then I was more focused. My responses in GS were facially peacemaking but designed to promote conflict.

is that what you're doing here?

cause 820 and 911 feel an awful lot like that

regardless, that's not what initially pinged me about you

-Rumia

[Team 9]

if it's PoE then explain that

based on my reads, it's half POE. I can come up with at least some reason to townread everyone besides those 3 - on a gut level I liked X's wall although I haven't read too much into it. however, GIF and I haven't convened yet so I'm not going anywhere with it for the time being.

do you disagree with 1106?

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Somehow, referring to the fact that if both tn and me are town and she's scum she could've just taken a side and let us continue to fan the flames, however if they are scummates OR tn is scum the current situation could also happen (the former makes ppl think her partner is town, and the later because she's town who legitly thinks tn is town)

it's true Titus could have done that as scum, but there is no reason she necessarily had to. just bc someone did it before doesn't mean they're automatically going to do the same thing again 100% of the time.

why do you think it'd be an invalid move to just sit back and let town implode on itself? that's a perfectly viable scum strategy and I don't remember her doing much of anything re you vs. tn.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Considering she was trying to stop me and tn for continuing to implode, i doubt it. What makes you think that wasn't her intention and decided to just sit back and watch?

where was she doing that? I'm looking through her ISO and can't find it.

regardless, I don't think her doing that would have affected anything. there was literally no way anyone could stop you/tn from imploding. while it's not explicitly scum motivated, it would make a shitton of sense to do that as scum in order to look like you're accomplishing smth when you're not.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

That's logically inconsitent. You just quoted my 48 hr break post and now you cannot remember me trying to diffuse conflict?

ok. I see what your point is, but that post literally came

after

most of it happened. it did absolutely nothing to actually diffuse anything - most of the damage in thread was already done anyway.

that post is one of the reasons I think you're scum for exactly that reason - you're suggesting smth that really has no effect on anything. it didn't read as a genuine effort to actually diffuse conflict.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

it's not your read that i had a problem with, sorry

as I said, half of it was POE. I can come up with at least some reason to townread everyone besides Titus/bert/bulge - X's wall read town on a gut level although I haven't looked too much into it.

I keep forgetting Gaiden is in this game. I haven't sorted him either.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Will this help?

VOTE: Gaiden

[Team 9]

And everytime I suggested tn talk about someone else? Or asked Sakura questions? My iso is littered with it.

Your theory requires that a) both tn and SH are town 2) I knew an implosion would occur 3) I subsciously triggered them both when SH would be aware of the tactic and assume she wouldn't scumread me 4) suppose tn had hero worship of me....

where the actual fuck did I ever assume 3? (or 4, but idk what you mean by that)

I've outright SAID already the way you went about it isn't explicitly scum motivated. rather, from an outside POV, it's p fucking obvious there was no way in hell to stop the tn/Sakura shitstorm that happened - so there's no reason you couldn't fake the way you went about it as scum.

I have other reason to think you're scum. the point is, the way you went about it is null - it doesn't give me any reason to second guess that read.

I can't tell if you're being deliberately obtuse about this or if I just wasn't clear enough. either way, I don't see where I ever implied you were trying to actively turn Sakura and tn against each other.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

What are you talking about gaiden my vote ain't no hate
it's all about love and motivation!

[Team 9]

Umm that's your whole argument....scum if played well doesn't whisper in each other's ear. To do that effectively, you have to know the personalities real well.

I am thinking you are confbiasing and this point is secondary as the more you talk the less you make sense

I think this is a misunderstanding. I did ask if you were purposefully trying to cause conflict, but I don't think that's the case (it was an observation based on what you had said). my whole argument is that there is literally no reason you couldn't fake the way you were trying to diffuse conflict as scum

if you're talking about 911, that post is a separate issue from this. the way you went about tn v. Sakura WHILE IT WAS GOING ON was null - it might be town motivated, but is fakeable. on the other hand, that post in particular read as forced bc it happened after the shitstorm had died down already, and thus wouldn't have actually affected anything - it read more as a post scum would make in order to look like they're doing smth when they're really not, as opposed to town legitimately trying to diffuse conflicts (especially given I doubt anyone would think they'd actually listen and quit talking to each other).

-Rumia

[Team 9]

btw why do you think scum would necessarily move on?

and if you think logical inconsistency is a scum tell, what's the read progression from thinking the more I talk, the less sense I make to.... completely forgetting about that and deciding I'm town (I'm assuming this is the case based on 1148) bc of this other reason?

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Scum don't persist in an argument no one gets.

They love those things as long as that gives them free townpoints. You basically don't need to form any opinion outside of the pointless 1v1ing and you get free townpoints for a boot!

-C

[Team 9]

I don't even know what y'all are talking about.
I was stating a general fact.

-C

[Team 9]

I'm having decaf candy cane green tea from trader joe's

you weren't supposed to put any extra flavors in your green tea ;w;

-Rumia

[Team 9]

top

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Gaiden I assume

[Team 9]

Why'd that support shift off?

For the same reasons i'm having trouble getting support for a tn lynch.

> having trouble getting support
> leading wagon

[Team 9]

Bc most of the ppl are on "don't care side" including bulge, bert, gaiden, etc.

I don't remember anyone else townread tn except for tn and maybe titus?

[Team 9]

That's why wall wars are bad.
Because people won't dare touching those two for a WHILE.

[Team 9]

That's why wall wars are bad.
Because people won't dare touching those two for a WHILE.

[Team 9]

Also my TvT case on tn/sakura still stands unless someone other than sakura/tn disproves it.

[Team 9]

823 is fair regardless of the reads.

[Team 9]

Ok so you have proved that tn is acting like an elitist.
Now why is he scum?

[Team 9]

And the one thing bothering me is that GiF's going "Sakura's pride was hurt, ergo her case is bollocks" as a reason to townread tn.

Actually the reason I'm town reading tn is bc he was basically doing the exact same thing you have been.

[Team 9]

Town with confbias do the same thing too. So "omg skewing is scummy" is false.

[Team 9]

It started with an elitist attitude.
Then it became a pride battle which turned into a scumread with a immense amount of confbias from each side.

[Team 9]

Town with confbias do the same thing too. So "omg skewing is scummy" is false.

So you're suggesting that he was confbiasing the fluff since he came into the game? I find that hard to believe.

omg you are skewing my words you must be scum!

[Team 9]

^
Case in point

[Team 9]

And that's why I say you're stuck on confbias.
If ones action is truly scummy, it doesn't make sense for town to pull that off in any circumstances ever.
However, what you say can be done by both town and scum.

[Team 9]

The difference between your case and my case is that you looked at the words while I looked at the motivations.

[Team 9]

To clarify, you looked at the words then assumed the motivation while I looked at the motivation then assumed the words.

[Team 9]

The difference between your case and my case is that you looked at the words while I looked at the motivations.

What makes you think i haven't looked at the motivations? His clear motivation is getting a mislynch through so he has to scumpaint everything i say.

You see, another proof that you're confbiasing.
"Because he's scum he's doing A".

[Team 9]

To clarify, you looked at the words then assumed the motivation while I looked at the motivation then assumed the words.

really now, let me close my eyes next time i read his posts then.

If that's how you read people's motivation, might as well.

[Team 9]

Pie I just has pure green tea, except I left the bags in 30 mins by accident!

Do I look like pie to you?

[Team 9]

But I see the town motivation and I've been telling you that the whole time.

[Team 9]

GiF you're going way out of your way to discredit my case on tn, are you scum with him?

P-Edit: No, my case says he's doing A because he's scum. I don't see any town reason for him doing what he's doing, I've tried seeing it from a town PoV on his side and i don't see it, there's like no fucking way he's town

I can't be scum with him when he's town.

[Team 9]

The osumafia irc incident proved that tn was acting like an elitist.
I say that he's bring an elitist because I had a proof of him doing so.

[Team 9]

Being*

[Team 9]

Otherwise I would've dropped that line because he's p nice outside of a mafia game.

[Team 9]

Besides you were calling him a confbiasing elitist since before the irc incident sooo...

Yes I was.
And after that incident it solidified even more.
Also to speak harshly, elitist hardly ever comes out of mature person.

[Team 9]

It doesnt.
But my point is that all sakura's case can be explained with a playstyle alone.

[Team 9]

And anyways why are you taking stuff that happened outside of the game as a way for you to further push your idea?

The same way how we're allowed to use the opinions posted on MD to call out a player.

[Team 9]

(Also strictly speaking, tn posted the whole thing in this thread so technically it can be relevant to this game.)

[Team 9]

I asked mith about it. He said it's a fair game.

[Team 9]

(As long as the player hasn't been manipulating the MD for the sake of ongoing game, which counts as violating ongoing game rules.)

[Team 9]

Fuck this shit. We need a wagon on scum. Maybe after tn's flip we can get the second in start. I am just fed up. My back is killing me. These meds are not working.

VOTE: tn

[Team 9]

At least 2 scums in tn's wagon.
Mark my words once tn flip town and we die n1

[Team 9]

At least 2 scums in tn's wagon.
Mark my words once tn flip town and we die n1

and then you wonder why i think you're scum.

As long as you don't shove a suite strip wall on my face

[Team 9]

Quote strip*

[Team 9]

Right now my leftover pile resides titus/bert/bulge/gaiden.

What do I look for when I read gaiden

[Team 9]

Don't worry if anyone thinks im going somewhere it's probably not where i'm actually going, I do lots of gambits after all.

Just a reminder, doing that often will make people want to slap you with a large trout.

[Team 9]

So are you replacing out or no?
You probably should stay.

[Team 9]

@GiF: Why do you keep saying that you're doing to die N1?

Crumbing cop, duh.
(But in more serious reply, I'm keep feeling like we're gonna die n1 yet again for being three awesome in this game)

[Team 9]

Can't we ever play nice in a game?

[Team 9]

Currently we does not have a townread on following players:

SXTLHGaiden
startfromtheheart
The Bulge

Please assist.

[Team 9]

as much as I hate being wrong, I don't think Titus as scum would replace out like that

it is possible she just decided she didn't want to play anymore as scum and made up a convincing town looking argument for it, but the way she did it came from frustration at not being listened to which feels town. it also makes a lot of sense trajectory wise - she tries to break up Sakura v tn, no one listens to her, I scumread her, then Sakura scumreads her. I'm not gonna write her off for it, but it's smth I'm keeping in mind.

I'm thinking we went wrong somewhere bc we have a lot of vague reads and the only ppl left are 3 lurkers which feels way too easy. still not sure where

-Rumia

[Team 9]

btw
pie = Rumia
GIF = Cirno

-Rumia

[Team 9]

More town than you are.

[Team 9]

Top

[Team 9]

Ya but pieguy is having a panic attack about how we're bound to be wrong on at least one of them because all of the leftovers are lurkers.

-C

[Team 9]

(I could've gone snarky and reply with "yeah I know so pls assist with a vote", but that's 2mean4me)

[Team 9]

What scum

Replaces out because they aren't being an asset to town

Like holy fuck Sakura

What the fuck is going on with you

Technically this is not the case here.
The reason she replaced out was because she had trouble keeping the sudden pace of the game.
"Being an asset to town" can be easily thrown by as a WIFOM.
That rage was all too sudden for it to be a genuine town frustration.
So yeah. If titus slot is town, the replace-out is not a reason.

[Team 9]

Her source of rage is not from this game but rather from the stress majorly from a car accident I would say otherwise her sudden burst of rage wouldn't make sense. Also I don't believe normally titus would replace out from such a "minorly annoying" push.

[Team 9]

I took Titus's replace out as being due to the pain. With that as a presumed reason, I'd say it shouldn't impact the read much if at all.

Basically this.

[Team 9]

did anyone who's actually here get a scum role PM?

I guess I could run through my Titus read. btw, I'm p sure I saw Bulge posting elsewhere and not here

-Rumia

[Team 9]

OK

People arguing about who is fluffier is like a reverse dick measuring contest with invisible nonfunctioning dicks.

Let's start some content.

SH is town.
notscience is town.
Team 9 is scum.
Bins is scum.

this is where I started to have problems with Titus. the thing that pinged me about this post was the bolded line.

there's hardly any actual content in this post, plus it implicates there wasn't content before, which isn't true. for example, none of the reads were backed up with reasons - if she was going for content here, she could have easily backed up these reads. despite saying she's starting content, she actually isn't doing much to develop content at all.

so this line roughly translates to "look at how town I am, starting content", without actually providing any - it's her positioning herself as a helpful townie who's trying to cut down on fluff and provide content, without actually having any effect on the gamestate.

I alluded to this in a previous post when I mentioned a pattern I was seeing that I didn't like, and that she'd continue doing it if she was scum here. this is the pattern I was talking about: her trying to position herself as a helpful, pro-town townie, while none of her actions actually had legitimate town motivation. p much my entire read until she replaced out was based off this.

Flubber, try to piss someone off. You are far too mellow.

this is the same as the previous post - it's a mostly pointless post that doesn't do anything. again, it reads as scum Titus trying to position herself as a helpful townie, without actually doing anything legitimately town motivated.

Then start with fucking pointed questions. Defeatism helps no one.

same thing - her trying to act helpful and position herself as a town leader, without doing anything legitimately town motivated.

this is especially true bc I'm pretty sure we had (pointlessly) been trying to diffuse Sakura v. tn and failing at it. even coming from Titus, I'd think most people would have realized we had every reason to be defeatist here. thus, the town motivation behind this post doesn't match her words.

Can you both do a 48 hr moratoriym on talking to each other?

same thing - I don't think most people would legitimately think Sakura and tn would actually listen, when faced with a statement like this. not to mention, this came after the massive amount of posts had mostly died down, so from a town POV it's not natural to make a suggestion like this at that point in the game. the best motivation I can think of to post smth like this is, as I said, to position herself as a helpful townie who's trying to lead and organize while not suggesting anything useful.

I'm aware she said she was trying to diffuse Sakura v. tn while it was going on - if she is town, this is true and you can find it exactly where she said to look - however, I wouldn't put it past her to fake that as scum. however, as I said, the timing on this post is different and it doesn't make sense to make a suggestion like this at this particular point in the game.

--------------------------------

I've already said the reason I thought Titus' replace out was town (1396). however, GIF told me the anger behind it was too sudden to come from town, and I admit it's possible she replaced out for other reason and was able to use that as an excuse, so I don't wanna write her off as town based off it.

re: Thesp's post: from what I can tell there's nothing unfakeable in there, but I haven't analyzed it too much.

thoughts?

[Team 9]

I see pretty much see all of those points as Titus trying to get reads in a manner she best interprets them. Isn't she known for getting reads based off of the emotions she sees in posts?

I don't remember that. this is actually smth I don't remember her doing at all in my one town game with her.

besides, that's my point - none of those statements do much towards actually getting said reads. and she could easily enough get reads without making most of those statements (asking you to piss someone off, for example).

I'm not sure how 868 or 911 would fit that either.

also I'm curious where you heard that from. I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, but I've never heard that before o.o

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Hey pieguy, what do you think about what I posted earlier, where Titus said scum appeases, but she took my side during the whole Sakura vs tn thing.

iirc I don't think the way she handled you v. tn on a general level was alignment indicative. that is, I don't see why she wouldn't necessarily take your side as town

I'm not sure I'm getting your point though. can you run me through it again?

although now I'm thinking that I don't see why her motivation was to diffuse you v. tn in the first place if she supposedly thought tn was scum. I'll read it again

-Rumia

fuck me in the ass

-Rumia

[Team 9]

@pieguy: You were calling out Titus because she came to dismiss the fight between us, but the timing was odd.
She said that if she was scum she would just appease 1 of the 2.
How the events happend Titus came in voting TN and supporting my side, while agreeing with my arguments against tn (I didn't realize it until she went back to show me she's been scumreading tn). Which means she was taking a side, something i said earlier i would expect scum to do, and she said scum appeases one of the 2 sides instead of taking a neutral stance, she appeased one of the 2 sides instead of taking a neutral stance.
Go look at: 1354 and tell me if it makes sense wrt the argument you had with her earlier, specially the first 3 quotes.

yeah, I get what you're saying

but like I'm trying to figure out how Titus would approach you v. tn if she was really town, and had a scumread on tn. I'm not sure it would 100% necessarily be different if she was town here (and there is at least some effort to break it up if you look exactly where she said). I agree her explicitly agreeing with you could have served to egg you on though

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Bert I know you can come up with better reasons for reads than that. what's going on?

-Rumia

[Team 9]

@flubber:

I see pretty much see all of those points as Titus trying to get reads in a manner she best interprets them. Isn't she known for getting reads based off of the emotions she sees in posts?

I don't remember that. this is actually smth I don't remember her doing at all in my one town game with her.

besides, that's my point - none of those statements do much towards actually getting said reads. and she could easily enough get reads without making most of those statements (asking you to piss someone off, for example).

I'm not sure how 868 or 911 would fit that either.

also I'm curious where you heard that from. I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, but I've never heard that before o.o

-Rumia

[Team 9]

@dave:

what's your current read on Titus?

also, quick question:

So we have 2 different scum reads on tn and Gaiden, and the older one that resulted in a wagon on Bins which has since eroded.
I posted recently on the reasons behind Gaiden, but the tn read is spread all over the place. Maybe it could be summarized for comparison purposes?

do you usually think about scum reads as consensus-based, like you're doing in this post?

[Team 9]

Sakura, I'm selfvoting because I just feel like shit and I just decided why not perpetuate it some more and I'm tired and I'm cranky but I can't fucking sleep and I don't fucking know what to do and I've been up since 9 am yesterday

/hug
feel free to rest on my shoulder if you're still awake

[Team 9]

Sakura, I'm selfvoting because I just feel like shit and I just decided why not perpetuate it some more and I'm tired and I'm cranky but I can't fucking sleep and I don't fucking know what to do and I've been up since 9 am yesterday

This might come as harsh and stuff but
Please keep your cranks out of this game.
The last thing this game need is more negative moods.

[Team 9]

Pretty much 100% except on titus

[Team 9]

@V

Currently we does not have a townread on following players:

SXTLHGaiden
startfromtheheart
The Bulge

Please assist.

[Team 9]

If this game isn't going anywhere, let's lolflashlynch this.

VOTE: The Bulge

[Team 9]

Can we flashwagon Bert instead?

Bulge is sitting there avoiding the thread. Bert's suspicious, but if we're gonna talk lurking, Bulge is even worse

wagon Bulge with us and we'll make great things happen

-Rumia

[Team 9]

wut u tawkin about m8
dis aint no policy lynch
dis is reel talk

[Team 9]

I didn't say you were avoiding the thread. Pieguy did.
I am lynching you for legit scumread resulted from a PoE.

[Team 9]

I don't see what's wrong about that.
PoE is a valid way of scumhunting and scumread resulting on PoE is legit.

[Team 9]

In fact you saying "ha" to that legit PoE scumread means that you are willing to use your contentlessness as your shield which is even more scummy.

[Team 9]

I can quote this any day.

Refresh me on who else you have PoE'd to at this point.

@V

Currently we does not have a townread on following players:

SXTLHGaiden
startfromtheheart
The Bulge

Please assist.

[Team 9]

In fact you saying "ha" to that legit PoE scumread means that you are willing to use your contentlessness as your shield which is even more scummy.

No it means I think it's funny you have no scumreads.

And your point is?

So you have a town read on everyone that's actively posting?

You wish

[Team 9]

Well, I read that as "are you townread ppl just because they're actively posting" of some sort.

[Team 9]

So the answer that actually answers the question is: Yes.

[Team 9]

Pie thinks it's thesp.
I'm not quite sure.
But if I'm wrong with one of the lurkers, it's bert.

[Team 9]

Proabably wasn't intended.
This game grew too fast that it tired them out and hit them with apathy before it hits town.

[Team 9]

Experience.
I've seen it happen before. And that game got me a scummie for "best town performance"

[Team 9]

I lied I'm not going to bed quite yet because I've been missing marathon weekends.

yea yea priorities, avoiding the thread, etc etc. No. Committing to a re-read and seriously playing a game is very different from playing a marathon. Especially when I'm ready to collapse from travelling.

my scum read on you is also based on POE, and the things you've done while you've been here (aka nothing)

town who lurk at least have some thoughts that they drop by during their limited time in the thread. scum who lurk try to fly under the radar, and generally don't post anything (which is what you're doing)

when they're called on it, they also tend to use "I haven't even done anything!" as a defense, as opposed to refuting the arguments against them (which is also what you're doing)

during your limited time in this thread, you picked up on the fact that MVP was an alt slip of this slot. you've clearly read the thread to some extent. what are your current reads?

-Rumia

[Team 9]

btw, marathon weekends ahve nothing to do with this issue - brb pulling something up

[Team 9]

What I'm saying is you seem like you're saying this for the sake of justifying your scumreads, because you have no real way of backing that up.

These 3 are scum
Because they are lurky and apathetic
Which happened to the scum in this game
Because these 3 are scum

Circular logic is the only logic I can find here.

Do you know what PoE is?
Because I don't think you know what it is.
Let me explain it to you.
PoE stands for "Process of Elimination".
That means, by crossing out the unlikely, you reach to a solution.
Let's say that there are 3 options, A,B, and C.
You know that A and C doesn't work, so what's the one that works? B.
It's quite awesome, ain't it?

If you ISO me, you'll see that I called everyone except for those 3 mentioned town for at least some kind of reason.
My current "non-town" reads are all lurkers/contentless players by coincidence.
And as I mentioned, you using your contentlessness as a shield is scummy as hell.

[Team 9]

I did it better than Rumia

-C

[Team 9]

yeah, as I thought:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?s ... r_id=24230

look at page 2. Bulge's explanation doesn't hold up. nice try

p-edit: ninja'd

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Yeah. And I said I've seen scum hitting apathy before town before.

[Team 9]

yeah, as I thought:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?s ... r_id=24230

look at page 2. Bulge's explanation doesn't hold up. nice try

p-edit: ninja'd

-Rumia

What's this about?

Apparently sth about you posting in different non-marathon game.

[Team 9]

These 3 are scum
Because they are lurky and apathetic

Well this whole thing is wrong here bc as I said I don't have them as scum because they're lurking but rather it is coincidental that my "non-townreads" happen to be lurkers bc I have a varying degrees of town on everyone else, hence my emphasis on "PoE".

[Team 9]

What I'm saying is you seem like you're saying this for the sake of justifying your scumreads, because you have no real way of backing that up.

These 3 are scum
Because they are lurky and apathetic
Which happened to the scum in this game
Because these 3 are scum

Circular logic is the only logic I can find here.

I don't understand step 3 of that circle.

That's because step 1/step 2 is flawed.

[Team 9]

Dunno bc I can't find any correlation with the logic you posted and your misunderstanding.

[Team 9]

^
To the bulge

[Team 9]

What I'm saying is you seem like you're saying this for the sake of justifying your scumreads, because you have no real way of backing that up.

These 3 are scum
Because they are lurky and apathetic
Which happened to the scum in this game
Because these 3 are scum

Circular logic is the only logic I can find here.

I don't understand step 3 of that circle.

That's because step 1/step 2 is flawed.

No. Like "which happened to be scum in this game." Like we already know who the scum are? Fuck, I want to say this is a slip, but its too much gut for me.

I don't believe in "scumslip" if you ask me.

[Team 9]

Just because I was reading along at one point doesn't mean I've read everything. I was never lurking, I was inactive. There's a difference.

Re:marathons, I was just mentioning that in case I said good night and then someone tried pulling some "He's posting in marathons! Lynch this lurker scum!" bullshit.

as I said, my scum read on you does not entirely come from the fact you were posting in other games and not here

most of it was POE, and the way you were posting

while you were here

in this game

just because you hadn't necessarily read everything, doesn't excuse you from at least giving some thoughts on the gamestate while you

were

here. you made at least 4 posts explaining why you were so busy, but you couldn't drop off any reads or thoughts on the game at all?

your overdefensiveness is noted though

-Rumia

[Team 9]

What I'm saying is you seem like you're saying this for the sake of justifying your scumreads, because you have no real way of backing that up.

These 3 are scum
Because they are lurky and apathetic
Which happened to the scum in this game
Because these 3 are scum

Circular logic is the only logic I can find here.

I don't understand step 3 of that circle.

That's because step 1/step 2 is flawed.

No. Like "which happened to be scum in this game." Like we already know who the scum are? Fuck, I want to say this is a slip, but its too much gut for me.

What? The post was meant to be from Team 9's POV. Let me reword using their wording.

These 3 are scum
Because they are lurky and apathetic
This game grew too fast that it tired them out and hit them with apathy before it hits town.
I can confirm this because my it's what's happening to my 3 scumreads.

You do realize that the third line is actually not my own reasoning but rather answer for Bin's question about "gimma a scenario where all scum would lurk", right?

[Team 9]

How far have you caught up?

[Team 9]

Unfair IMO.

what's unfair about it?

scum who get called out on lurking will generally resort to "I haven't even done anything", or attempt to justify their lurking in advance, which is what he did in the post I quoted - hence me calling him overly defensive. on the other hand, town who lurk don't get defensive about it and try to come up with excuses for it like he did. do you disagree?

-Rumia

[Team 9]

It doesn't matter how I misunderstood it.

What if I say that you were trying to cover up your sub-par discrediting along with your misunderstanding?
Because I still don't see how that logic correlates to your misunderstanding.
Ooh now it matters.

[Team 9]

Be ready to feel hell bulge bc this is GIF posting without caffeine at 12:43 AM.

[Team 9]

What if I say that you were trying to cover up your sub-par discrediting along with your misunderstanding?
Because I still don't see how that logic correlates to your misunderstanding.
Ooh now it matters.

^agree with this. the way he brought up that flawed chain of logic felt more like discrediting to me.

I think I might just step back and let Cirno-sama handle this cause she's wording it way more eloquently than I am

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Well if he doesn't defend himself isn't ignoring your point just as scummy? I mean we're putting a lot of heat on him. But considering he's resisting letting us know how much of the game he's gone through, I might agree with your point in a few.

he did defend himself to some extent

however, he also put a preemptive excuse at the end for why he'd be posting elsewhere and not here. that's the part I think is overly defensive

GIF told me "overdefensiveness" is kind of extreme for right now, but judging from everything else that's going on, I'm not really worried about it ~

-Rumia

[Team 9]

I'm tired too but I still can follow that post.

How does your misunderstanding of my answer to Bins has any correlation to your logic where you tried to explain as us scumreading the 3 names because they are a lurker (when I clearly said it was PoE)?

[Team 9]

I pointed out that your first/second line of logic is false because we said PoE not "scum bc lurking" and you tried to cover it as "because there was a misunderstanding."
That doesn't explain your basis of your logic at all.

[Team 9]

he's excusing his lurking which clearly isn't the reason to be scumread as noted by GIF in the previous 2 posts

yep

-Rumia

[Team 9]

oh buuuuuuuuuulge, you have some explaining to do

don't think you can just ignore us. I'll pull you into the darkness and eat you ~

-Rumia

[Team 9]

1588
1589

[Team 9]

I thought Team 9 was maybe scum until the heads addressed each other (1584) and that makes me lean town for some reason. If one head is acting scummy and the other isn't openly disagreeing/calling them out, it looks like distancing from one's own slot if that makes sense. Like they don't want to draw attention to it.

Although, I don't recall Cirno (the townier of the two) ever addressing Rumia's posts, only vice versa, so I guess the tell-based read still stands now that I think about it.

actually the more I think about this, this feels like a bullshit reaching angle. 1584 isn't me calling GIF out for doing something scummy, it's me saying I agreed with smth GIF posted which is p much the exact opposite of that. what's the logic here?

and if Cirno is townier than me, that doesn't explain why everyone in the game is reading me and not Cirno

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Read what I said. I pointed out the lack of any sort of calling out. If Cirno had called you out for anything, that would have made me town-lean. But I realized as I was posting that that never happened.

er.... no, that's not what you said

you said post 1584 made you lean town
then, you said it was town because it's a town tell when one head calls the other one out for doing something
however, that's not what I even did at all. I was agreeing with something GIF posted, which isn't remotely similar to calling him out for something.

do you see the disconnect here? regardless of anything GIF did or didn't do, it doesn't make any sense to cite "one head calling the other head out" as a town tell, when that's not what I even did.

also, you absolutely said (regardless of anything else) that you initially thought we were scum and then 1584 made you lean town. even if you don't think that's the case anymore, why are you now claiming you never had a town lean on us? you backpedaling like this is scummy as fuck, and reinforces the idea your original read on us wasn't genuine.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

I guess I could put it another way.

Why should I be voting The Bulge over SXTLHGaiden?

I'll defer this to GIF bc (as we discovered today) he can explain things way better than me, but if you can follow my last post, him backpedaling on his read on us is a p good reason

-Rumia

[Team 9]

although now's a good a time as any to try my hand at improving:

1. when he got called on lurking, he started using his (lack of) activity as a shield to try and get out of suspicion. that's lurk scum 101 right there.
2. he's constantly acting like we're calling him scum for lurking and ignoring the real reason we think he's scum: POE and his behavior while he's actually here
3. tried to discredit our read on him with a false logic (?? ask GIF about this, it's his point and I'm not sure if his latest post changes anything)
4. when Bins asked him for his reads, he made up a read on us and then backpedaled on it once I called him on it

if that's not clear enough, ask GIF when he's around :/

-Rumia

[Team 9]

I thought Team 9 was maybe scum until the heads addressed each other (1584) and that makes me lean town for some reason. If one head is acting scummy and the other isn't openly disagreeing/calling them out, it looks like distancing from one's own slot if that makes sense. Like they don't want to draw attention to it.

Although, I don't recall Cirno (the townier of the two) ever addressing Rumia's posts, only vice versa, so I guess the tell-based read still stands now that I think about it.

I can play the bold game too

-Rumia

[Team 9]

like, you can't fucking deny that at one point you thought we were scum, and then at some point saw 1584 and thought it leaned town

however, the explanation you gave for it doesn't make any sense

that's also not what I mean by "backpedaling". read my post again

-Rumia

[Team 9]

well let's go about it this way

when you read 1584, why did you initially think it leaned town?

-Rumia

[Team 9]

The town-read would only apply if GIF said something like "Rumia let me handle this please". I realized as I was typing that it was you that pointed it out, not GIF. That doesn't make it a scum-read, but it eliminates the town-read and leaves me with the scum read I had before.

why didn't you just say you had specifically misinterpreted that post? afaik you had only vaguely said that GIF had never addressed me. either way, I think this specific point was a misunderstanding.

but anyway:

^agree with this. the way he brought up that flawed chain of logic felt more like discrediting to me.

I think I might just step back and let Cirno-sama handle this cause she's wording it way more eloquently than I am

-Rumia

when you saw this post, walk me through why did you think it was GIF telling me to let him handle it?

now that I look at it again I do admit I could see it coming from the second line, but still - I had explicitly pointed out in the same post I'm agreeing with GIF. how did you see that and still think it was GIF telling me to let him handle it? this doesn't seem like a natural angle to push in response to this post - which is exactly the point I'm arguing.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

also, it doesn't matter if we argue over "lurking" vs. "inactivity". the point is, you were using the fact you were inactive up to this point as a shield to get out of suspicion - which is what we've been saying this whole time.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

QUOTE. ME.

I'm not going to pointlessly quote when you've been over this with GIF already. the point still stands, no matter which one of us is arguing it.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

oh btw just out of curiosity

you admitted you generally have a hard time getting your thoughts across. if that's the case, why was your initial reaction to me to keep telling me to read your posts?

this is especially the case given the way you handled GIF, when you put a lot of effort into making sure there was no misunderstanding anywhere. I'd think you would at least consider there was a misunderstanding somewhere re: me too, as opposed to being confident you got your point across.

(I can't help but think the best motivation for this is to buddy up to the stronger player in the hydra while trying to discredit the weaker player via "didn't read the thread", but lol. regardless I'm still curious)

-Rumia

[Team 9]

If I didn't it just confirms my initial suspicion about 1542 that you're pushing me without actual basis and throwing around random shit to justify it.

interesting

both of us have said several times that our initial scumread on you came via POE (and, in my case, your behavior during the time you were actually in the thread)

at this point, you have acknowledged this, by virtue of 1602 - you said you were leaving out the POE reasons for our scumreads, thus acknowledging they exist. thus, you should know at this point we are not pushing you "without actual basis".

at this point, I firmly believe you are failing at keeping your story straight. I'm done here

-Rumia

[Team 9]

it's easier than that. Bulge is continuing to push an angle he's already admitted is wrong:

1. Bulge sees 1542, pushes us over it for supposedly using circular logic and not having a "real" reason to scum read him
2. we have said several times our read on him initially came from POE
3. since then, Bulge has:
i. admitted he was misinterpreting 1542
ii. acknowledged that our initial scum read on him came from POE
4. now, despite both of those things, he's picking the angle about 1542 up and pushing it again.

personally I think it's bc he forgot that his original angle about 1542 was invalidated by him supposedly "misinterpreting" 1542, but either way, none of this adds up

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Time doesn't matter when there's a 66 pages wOrth of content already.
With that logic, no reads are valid because we can prove that they are valid.

[Team 9]

Also someone who Is innocent defends against a PoE by showing that someone outside of one's townread is wrong.

[Team 9]

I thought Team 9 was maybe scum until the heads addressed each other (1584) and that makes me lean town for some reason. If one head is acting scummy and the other isn't openly disagreeing/calling them out, it looks like distancing from one's own slot if that makes sense. Like they don't want to draw attention to it.

Although, I don't recall Cirno (the townier of the two) ever addressing Rumia's posts, only vice versa, so I guess the tell-based read still stands now that I think about it.

Um doing what you said is like a hydra version of Amish tell.

[Team 9]

QUOTE. ME.

I'm not going to pointlessly quote when you've been over this with GIF already. the point still stands, no matter which one of us is arguing it.

-Rumia

I haven't been over anything with GIF because he never quoted me either. Come on, it's one ISO search. Prove to me that I used that god-awful defense. If I did, well then fuck me, because that's terrible. If I didn't it just confirms my initial suspicion about 1542 that you're pushing me without actual basis and throwing around random shit to justify it.

PEDIT - I never buddied anyone in the hydra.

re: the rest of that post, fair enough. If you don't understand, I'm just frustrated.

You do realize that 1542 wasn't directed towards this game at all and was a hypothetical speaking of one of the scenario that all scums would be inactive/lurk, right? You even thinking about that sentence as a push on you makes me think that you're having a guilty conscious.

-C

[Team 9]

Hell, I'll even quote it for you with a context.

So what's the great scum strategy behind having the entire mafia team act like useless, fluffy lurkers in thread?

Proabably wasn't intended.
This game grew too fast that it tired them out and hit them with apathy before it hits town.

[Team 9]

Inb4 "oh I misunderstood what i originally thought I misunderstood then I thought I misunderstood what i thought what i originally misunderstood"

[Team 9]

I never implied 1542 was directly against me.

If I didn't it just confirms my initial suspicion about 1542 that

you're pushing me

without actual basis and throwing around random shit to justify it.

WHO'S MISREPING BULGE?

[Team 9]

I never implied 1542 was directly against me.

If I didn't it just confirms my initial suspicion about 1542 that

you're pushing me

without actual basis and throwing around random shit to justify it.

WHO'S MISREPING BULGE?

You're not pushing me in 1542, no.

I don't know how to word this. uh

Ok 1542 made me believe that you are struggling to provide justification
Which in turn leads me to believe that your push on me is baseless

Make sense? 1542 does not directly push me. It's just a reason why I think your case against me is stupid.

Ok.
Then how does pieguy's or my interference affects the justifiction of #1542?
Because you said the lack of thereof made you think that 1542 wasn't justified.

[Team 9]

Hey notsci ur too slow

Pie thinks it's thesp.
I'm not quite sure.
But if I'm wrong with one of the lurkers, it's bert.

Also calling sakura scum Is like calling the Earth flat.

[Team 9]

I never implied 1542 was directly against me.

If I didn't it just confirms my initial suspicion about 1542 that

you're pushing me

without actual basis and throwing around random shit to justify it.

WHO'S MISREPING BULGE?

You're not pushing me in 1542, no.

I don't know how to word this. uh

Ok 1542 made me believe that you are struggling to provide justification
Which in turn leads me to believe that your push on me is baseless

Make sense? 1542 does not directly push me. It's just a reason why I think your case against me is stupid.

Ok.
Then how does pieguy's or my interference affects the justifiction of #1542?
Because you said the lack of thereof made you think that 1542 wasn't justified.

To recap,
1. You thought my 1542 was not justified.
2. You missed me justifying with my experience, you say you misunderstood.
3. You misthinking about interference gets rid of a townread you had on us.
4. Now you say you think we're scum for "non-justified" 1542.

Clearly the lack of interference changed your mind about 1542.

[Team 9]

Logical conclusion.

[Team 9]

There's no difference.
I say you did #1, and provide my reasoning in the post that contained #2 and said that sentence as a recap.

[Team 9]

Also one does not need to say an actual word to say something, bulge.
You say quote for proof, and I say "body of work".

[Team 9]

Also you're making contradictions all over the place.
Since when "distancing between heads" changed from town tell to scumtell, bulge?

[Team 9]

Hey sakura/notsci, do you remember that GM's large normal where likeabauss caught AFB scum for the "scarface tell"? You are witnessing the same thing here.

[Team 9]

Like normally when I think I'm tunneling to hard I always stop and think if there's any other possibility.
But this shit is too blatant that even I'm going pieguy on him

[Team 9]

You do realize that calling out your hydra partner is also a distancing, right?

[Team 9]

Also answer my 1715 instead of dodging it with a semantics.

[Team 9]

Ok then.
Quote it.
If I'm scum for not quoting, you as town should be easy to quote it.

[Team 9]

Ok then.
Quote it.
If I'm scum for not quoting, you as town should be easy to quote it.

Quote what? Quote you

not mentioning

Rumia's posts? How the fuck am I supposed to do that?

Then I guess it's automatically disproven according to your own logic of proving things~

[Team 9]

Ok then.
Quote it.
If I'm scum for not quoting, you as town should be easy to quote it.

Quote what? Quote you

not mentioning

Rumia's posts? How the fuck am I supposed to do that?

Then I guess it's automatically disproven according to your own logic of proving things~

The. Fucking. Misreps.

I don't see a difference of me doing that or you saying "YOU CAN'T QUOTE IT SO YOU CAN'T PROVE IT" because afaik, I never distanced from Rumia.
You should perhaps explain that for me a bit.

[Team 9]

And i say it is physically impossible for me to quote my point because IT IS IMPLIED IN A BODY OF WORK

[Team 9]

so let me get this straight

pedit - I mean distancing as in not drawing attention

I thought Team 9 was maybe scum until the heads addressed each other (1584) and that makes me lean town for some reason. If one head is acting scummy and the other isn't openly disagreeing/calling them out, it looks like distancing from one's own slot if that makes sense. Like they don't want to draw attention to it.

Although, I don't recall Cirno (the townier of the two) ever addressing Rumia's posts, only vice versa, so I guess the tell-based read still stands now that I think about it.

based on this, you are saying one of the reasons you're scum reading us is that............ GIF never pointed out any of my posts?

it's extremely common for hydras to just not interact in thread at all, and I think you know that. you are grasping at straws

-Rumia

[Team 9]

It's not the basis of my scum-tell. It nullifies the town-tell.

• blatant misreps around every corner
  
• avoiding questions/refusing to provide proof
  
• jumping to conclusions (confbias)
  
• distancing between heads

Why are people still townreading Team 9?

bolded is you directly using supposed "lack of calling out", aka GIF not calling me out for any of my posts, as a reason to call me scum. so why did this suddenly change from a null tell into a scumtell?

-Rumia

[Team 9]

It's not the basis. It's just something I find curious. It's my weakest read against you, hence why it is last (ie, added as an afterthought)

yes, and it's exactly as I said.

you are still directly using it as a reason to scum read us. however, you have

EXPLICITLY SAID

at several points, including before and after the point where you used it to scum read us, that it's a null tell.

so what's the logic behind GIF not calling me out of any of my posts being a null tell, then suddenly a scum tell, then a null tell again?

-Rumia

[Team 9]

@notsci: the funny thing is I'm actually playing this game without my usual all-aggro-all-the-time-deathtunnel-the-shit-out-of-everyone style. however, in this case, Bulge is just contradicting himself that much

-Rumia

[Team 9]

ITT Bulge ignores my actual point against him and instead sits there going "BS prove it" and accuses me of misrepping him ... when I literally just pointed it out a few posts above him.

do you retract that statement, or do you want me to eat you alive?

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Hey, bulge lemme tell you this right now.
It's only your own head that's gonna a hurt when you try to counter all the logic and implication with a physical words and semantics.

[Team 9]

Gonna hurt*

[Team 9]

I thought Team 9 was maybe scum until the heads addressed each other (1584) and that makes me lean town for some reason. If one head is acting scummy and the other isn't openly disagreeing/calling them out, it looks like distancing from one's own slot if that makes sense. Like they don't want to draw attention to it.

Although, I don't recall Cirno (the townier of the two) ever addressing Rumia's posts, only vice versa, so I guess the tell-based read still stands now that I think about it.

I thought Team 9 was maybe scum until the heads addressed each other (1584) and that makes me lean town for some reason. If one head is acting scummy and the other isn't openly disagreeing/calling them out, it looks like distancing from one's own slot if that makes sense. Like they don't want to draw attention to it.

Although, I don't recall Cirno (the townier of the two) ever addressing Rumia's posts, only vice versa, so I guess the tell-based read still stands now that I think about it.

actually the more I think about this, this feels like a bullshit reaching angle. 1584 isn't me calling GIF out for doing something scummy, it's me saying I agreed with smth GIF posted which is p much the exact opposite of that. what's the logic here?

and if Cirno is townier than me, that doesn't explain why everyone in the game is reading me and not Cirno

-Rumia

Read what I said. I pointed out the lack of any sort of calling out. If Cirno had called you out for anything, that would have made me town-lean. But I realized as I was posting that that never happened.

I thought Team 9 was maybe scum until the heads addressed each other (1584) and that makes me lean town for some reason. If one head is acting scummy and the other isn't openly disagreeing/calling them out, it looks like distancing from one's own slot if that makes sense. Like they don't want to draw attention to it.

Although, I don't recall Cirno (the townier of the two) ever addressing Rumia's posts, only vice versa, so I guess the tell-based read still stands now that I think about it.

I can play the bold game too

-Rumia

READ

OR READ THIS

The town-read would only apply if GIF said something like "Rumia let me handle this please". I realized as I was typing that it was you that pointed it out, not GIF. That doesn't make it a scum-read, but it eliminates the town-read and leaves me with the scum read I had before.

If you need explanation about why it's a town-tell, I think that when one head is messing up, the other head (as scum) will try to distance and not draw attention to it. Calling out your hydra partner on their shit is town behaviour, because it means you have nothing to be afraid of.

This is you directly saying that you thought our hydra interaction was town but then, when you realized it wasn't GIF, said it "doesn't make it a scum read but eliminates the town-read" - aka calling the lack of GIF calling me out for anything null.

• blatant misreps around every corner
  
• avoiding questions/refusing to provide proof
  
• jumping to conclusions (confbias)
  
• distancing between heads

Why are people still townreading Team 9?

This is you directly using our "lack of distancing" as a scumtell, despite saying it was null before. (There are several other posts to Sakura where you're doing this, so you can't deny it. inb4 "BS prove it")

so let me get this straight

pedit - I mean distancing as in not drawing attention

I thought Team 9 was maybe scum until the heads addressed each other (1584) and that makes me lean town for some reason. If one head is acting scummy and the other isn't openly disagreeing/calling them out, it looks like distancing from one's own slot if that makes sense. Like they don't want to draw attention to it.

Although, I don't recall Cirno (the townier of the two) ever addressing Rumia's posts, only vice versa, so I guess the tell-based read still stands now that I think about it.

based on this, you are saying one of the reasons you're scum reading us is that............ GIF never pointed out any of my posts?

it's extremely common for hydras to just not interact in thread at all, and I think you know that. you are grasping at straws

-Rumia

It's not the basis of my scum-tell. It nullifies the town-tell.

Now, this is you DIRECTLY calling GIF not addressing any of my posts null again, even though you were clearly thinking about it as a scum tell in the above post and your posts to Sakura.

bolded is you directly using supposed "lack of calling out", aka GIF not calling me out for any of my posts, as a reason to call me scum. so why did this suddenly change from a null tell into a scumtell?

-Rumia

It's not the basis. It's just something I find curious. It's my weakest read against you, hence why it is last (ie, added as an afterthought)[/quote]

And this is you confirming that you were saying GIF not calling me out for any of my posts is a scumtell.

So, I repeat, what is the logic here?

Don't you fucking think you can just walk away and ignore me. If you thought GIF at 12 AM was scary, you'll be completely fucked once you deal with me. You thought you could hide behind "BS quote it" as a shield? Here it is.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Bert I'm thinking of reversing my statement rebins and re gif

Pedit

Hell yeah


Notscienceopoly

is it sad that I'm actually considering this at this pint

-Rumia

[Team 9]

l m f a o

I literally just quoted exactly what you asked for, in the exact post you quoted. squirm much?

-Rumia

[Team 9]

btw, just so you don't try to run off and hide again, that's only my explanation for the one contradiction

I say this bc if I don't I know you'll use "BS you still haven't quoted ~this unrelated point~" as a defense.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Keep that promise or ill vote you

No need to lose your shit like this

I'm hardly losing my shit. this is actually the most calm I've been playing mafia :3

but legit, if GIF agrees, I don't have a problem with it. idk that he'll agree though

-Rumia

[Team 9]

l m f a o

I literally just quoted exactly what you asked for, in the exact post you quoted. squirm much?

-Rumia

I want evidence of me using "I haven't done anything as a defense". I've been waiting.

nope. you said you wanted evidence of "a contradiction that wasn't me misreping" you.

so now that I provided one, what are you going to do, run off and hide? the way you're hiding behind "you still haven't quoted evidence for xxx", as a defense for something that's

COMPLETELY UNRELATED

to xxx, is scummy as fuck.

and not to mention it's exactly what I just predicted you'd do. ara ara~

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Bert you have to wait til tomorrow for it becasue the tunnelfucks are running rampant today

notsci, let's look at it this way.
if you think Bulge is town, what's the problem with my argument?
I challenge you to find one bc I'm actually pretty confident about this. when GIF is telling me I'm on the right track, I know I'm being reasonable.

at this point, Bulge has contradicted himself several times, and he is continually deflecting and hiding behind a shield of "you still haven't proved xxx", as opposed to addressing the arguments against him. then, when I do provide evidence, he proceeds to completely ignore it (bc it's not for a point that is completely unrelated to the point I'm making, even though what I posted is exactly what he asked for - double negative intentional) and continues hiding.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

oh
@Sakura: while you're hear, why is Gaiden town?

-Rumia

[Team 9]

...*here

[Team 9]

Hey notsci since when were you town reading bins?
I don't remember.

[Team 9]

If you're talking about bulge rage, then that's a null rage.
You get pissed regardless of your alignment when your points doesn't go through.

[Team 9]

Also no on the vote bet.
The whole point of the vote bet thing is to laugh at other for being wrong and that other person has an strong incentive to prove me wrong prior to the bet itself.
You don't even disagree with me as you said and you suggesting a vote bet for lulz is unacceptable.
So if you want to do a vote bet, make a town case on bulge. Otherwise, there's no honor in that.

[Team 9]

Bins still annoys me and I'm conflicted. If it's scum, it's level 2 scum.

wht does this mean

That means if you are scum, you are so evil that you kick puppies and choke kittens for daily sadistic amusement.
/THIS is how you misrep, bulge.

[Team 9]

Bulge is scum. You his scumbuddy / bae?

wagon Bulge with us and we'll make great things happen

-Rumia

[Team 9]

also, HI MARQUIS <3

-Rumia

[Team 9]

No I'm trying to break the shitty case on me.

By constantly yelling us to quote something that I explained how it can't be quoted because it was not physically posted (hence the "body of work"). I counter-used that on one of your points to explain that remember?
You don't like it because it's too broad? Well then too bad. That's only a minor point anyway.

[Team 9]

pie's case is shit

And you're dodging it by beating a dead horse. I'm pretty sure that's not how you react to a shit case. You should be able to break that down easily if the case Is bad.

[Team 9]

hey Bulge

if my case (it's not even my entire case. as GIF said, that was just one part of our case on you) is so "shit", why have you

still

not responded to it?

you asked for proof of you contradicting yourself. I gave it. you proceeded to completely ignore it, after I gave you exactly what you asked for, and are continuing to deflect because "we still haven't provided evidence for this other point".

ignoring us is not an option

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Oh yea that reminds me.

l m f a o

I literally just quoted exactly what you asked for, in the exact post you quoted. squirm much?

-Rumia

I want evidence of me using "I haven't done anything as a defense". I've been waiting.

I still want either this, or for Team 9 to admit they were wrong and that I never used that defense, at which point I will lock in my vote.

Quote me distancing from Rumia then I'll quote what you want.

[Team 9]

ninja'd by GIF. gg

-Rumia

[Team 9]

I've countered everything and you tell me I haven't done shit against it?

you have not countered 1803, short of saying "pie's case is shit" and deflecting with "provide evidence that I used that as a defense" (when we have already said multiple times it's based on the body of work).

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Stop asking me to quote something that didn't happen.

• blatant misreps around every corner
  
• avoiding questions/refusing to provide proof
  
• jumping to conclusions (confbias)
  
• distancing between heads

Why are people still townreading Team 9?

*whistles*

[Team 9]

Saying something is "based on the body of work" sounds like a scum excuse to me. You're claiming you don't have to prove anything because "just look at his posts! it's obvious!". L. A. Z. Y.

big misrep. the point of it being the body of work is there is no way we can physically quote it, not bc "just look at his posts! it's obvious!"

and you still haven't countered 1803 and are still bringing this up as defense, proving my point

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Not what I meant. I'm saying that part of my case is the fact that it didn't happen.

So what does this make about you yelling at us for thinking that you magically changed something from towntell to scumtell?

[Team 9]

the post that comes back THE MOST in this push is that god damned post

Now you're not even speaking English.

[Team 9]

Like, let's do a recap.

First, you put "hydra heads distancing" as a reason in scum-T9 case.
When we all were like "didn't you call that a towntell?" and you were like "NO FUCK YOU I SAID SCUM DO THAT NOT TOWN"
And now you say in 1924 that the point is that it (the distancing) never happened.
So you're now saying that we're scum because we never distanced.

P-Edit: Why not? It's your "case" on us after all.

[Team 9]

I don't know where I went wrong with the recap so if I am you should probably elaborate.

[Team 9]

Like, let's do a recap.

First, you put "hydra heads distancing" as a reason in scum-T9 case.
When we all were like "didn't you call that a towntell?" and you were like "NO FUCK YOU I SAID SCUM DO THAT NOT TOWN"
And now you say in 1924 that the point is that it (the distancing) never happened.
So you're now saying that we're scum because we never distanced.

P-Edit: Why not? It's your "case" on us after all.

I am so frustrated this game

Literally not one person on my wagon has correctly quoted me

NOT ONCE.

Then perhaps it's about time that you EXPLAIN what's wrong with that line of logic and where I went wrong instead of bitching about quoting.

P-Edit: Cool. Then self-vote.

[Team 9]

but bulge is def town because this is exactly how [redacted]

Then hammer him and prove me wrong.

[Team 9]

but bulge is def town because this is exactly how [redacted]

Then hammer him and prove me wrong.

hahahahahaha

[Team 9]

Wrong quote

Yes, my scum case against Team 9 is based on the fact that they are committing towntells

You said heads calling each other out was a towntell.
Then you backtracked on it because the calling out wasnt reciprocal, and then you said it was null

hence you went back to your previous reasoning of scumreading them

But you never said what said reasoning was.
Then you said that your reasoning for scumreading them was their heads distancing each other.
Then you get called out on your flip flop about it being a town tell or scum tell
Then you say you never called it a town tell
Then I quote you calling it a town tell.
Then you say that despite it saying literally "

It's a town tell because... X

you were explaining why it's a scumtell.
Then you say we're misrepping you.
Then I say you fail at english.
Then you say that you dont.
Then I say that i proved that you called it a town tell and that you instead of admitting it and pushing a different angle, you going over semantics was because you were self conscious of guilt.
Then you ask pie to quote their body of work.
Then pie makes their case on you with quotes on what you did and your contradictions.
Then you say you ignored it because he asked you for a single post of evidence.
Then we laugh.
Then you say their case is crap without ever addressing it.
Then we tell you to quote they distancing between their heads.
Then you say it never happened.
Then you say that when you started scumreading them is when they made a made up case on you.
If this is true, this happened before the argument about the towntell started, so im asking you to quote it.

So where exactly is the town motivation behind you pushing such a BS made up case to scum paint pieinnatirasha?

Reading this will only frustrate me because skimming through I have already found several things I never said/meant.

Then you should point out which things you have never said or you have never meant instead of sitting there whining about it.
You like proofs don't you?