STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Reasonably Rational]

Actually wait.

We still have an NC flip we haven't seen.

If that flip is a town one and will happen at end of day, then stress will be -3 as we go into night. There might be no reason for you to use your stress increasing power kraska.

@gems(MoI, specifically, since you've been directly outed): Do you know the alignment of the flips you're delaying?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@farside: how many points do you have now?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Magna where the fuck are you?

We need to know if you know what effect NCs flip will have on the stress, and if you can guarantee that flip will come at the end of this day phase, so if it increases stress well know we don't need to mess around with using kraskas thing (unless we have some reason to want stress up significant higher?)

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

MoI can you make sure that NC is flipped before we hammwe? Then we can know whether or not kraska needs to use his ability.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

MoI can you make sure that NC is flipped before we hammwe? Then we can know whether or not kraska needs to use his ability.

-Cerb

Personally I'm not flipping an almost certain Town player when other things are possibly in play.

Have kraska use his ability if you are that concerned about the current status.

Why do you want us to use an ability when the same effect can be achieved by simple cooperation?

Unless you think kraska is scum, it does not make sense to force him to use this power.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Almost, We asked him to check at night. I have an exposition only ability as well. Mine is on my pm though.

@RR, If Twie is scum, lynching him has the status at negative 4. You townreading TWIE?

There's a delay on flips Titus. TWIES alignment does not matter when it comes to making sure stress is not at -4 as we go into the night. All that matters is what effect NCs flip has on stress, and whether or not kraska uses his power.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I've never suggested scum are the ones delaying the flips.

In fact, we have evidence that they are not, because Yume claimed responsibility for the delayed flips, and klingon's flip appeared to happen on her command. In addition, if scum had control over the flips, I imagine they'd have flipped SC immediately in order to gain access to their strongman kill through skybird. It's possible that the suggestion I(and A50) have made that perhaps they had to skip their N1 kill in order to trigger Message Received is accurate, and that's why they didn't care about having a strongman kill that night...but that doesn't change the fact that the gems are clearly in control of the flips.

And the gems know if they don't delay TWIE's flip and it turns out he's scum and they enable a strongman kill on our conftown, they're all dead.

So, I'm very confident that if twie flips as scum, his flip will not allow a strongman kill tonight IF NC flips town and gets stress to -3.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Cerb,

You're postulating that TWIE gets revealed before NC.

In what world does that make any sense?

What?? Where did I say that? What the fuck are you talking about?

I expect things to happen as they have EVERY OTHER TIME.

Lynch happens.

NC flip occurs.
If town, stress goes to -3.
If scum, stress stays at -4.

Tomorrow morning, TWIE's flip happens, and stress moves accordingly.

Either way, his flip HAS NO EFFECT ON WHAT STRESS IS AT DURING THE CLIMAX TONIGHT.

If NC's flip happens BEFORE the hammer, then we'll know if stress will be a -3 or -4 tonight, and will thus know if kraska should use his power.

MoI is suggesting we should instead just use kraskas ppwwr BEFORE WE HAVE TO because he's insisting on not flipping NC.

What's is fucking hard to understand about this?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I strongly am in favor of Kraska using the ability to move away from Slice of Life ASAP today so the issue is settled well in advance of lynch.

--

Why do you want us to use an ability when the same effect can be achieved by simple cooperation?

Unless you think kraska is scum, it does not make sense to force him to use this power.
-Cerb

Why would you continually ask for things that may not be Pro-Town and try to hide it under the guise of cooperation.

Not Chara is overwhelmingly likely to be Town. There are multiple other things at play that flipping her now would eliminate. I’m very curious why you are so dead set on flipping Chara when a reasonable alternate method of defusing the Slice of Life problem.

Because one method requires the expenditure of NO resources, while one requires using a power which (I assume) has limited usages.

If we WASTE (and yes, it would be a waste if NC is town and the only point would be to keep scum from having a strongman kill tonight) kraskas ability right NOW, it means we can't use it LATER when we may not have an alternative method to use.

Again, how is this so fucking hard to understand?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Titus I have never suggested that twie would flip before NC.

What the fuck are you going on about?

-Cerb

Ugh.

Also, let's use some simple fucking logic.

Yke claimed to be delaying flips.

After her death, flops are still delayed.

Therefore, her FACTION, the crystal gems, or a member of the crystal gems, is in control the flips.

MoI is a fucking gem.

The only outright 100% outed to the entire game gem.

So I'm fucking asking MoI why they wouldn't flip NC and instead prefer to have us use a power from kraskas slot.

Your bullshit scenario, Titus, requires that the gems commit fucking suicide by making TWIE flip immediately for the first time this game, in order to enable slice of life power to scum.

That makes no fucking sense.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Lynch scum today and tomorrow? If the fundamental position your maintaining is wrong, then we wouldn't be lynching scum today and tomorrrow, so the whole plan sorta falls apart.

Oh, A50: the thing I thought I knew about shiro? Totally wrong, so yeah.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh and Snarky winning given my entire hood agreed to vote Creature is even MORE evidence Snarky is town.

That's untrue.

Snarky was on his way to a lynch yesterday. The people in our hood weren't the ones voting him yesterday (I don't believe ), so we have no effect on the 7 or whatever it waa votes he was likely to get.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Lynch scum today and tomorrow? If the fundamental position your maintaining is wrong, then we wouldn't be lynching scum today and tomorrrow, so the whole plan sorta falls apart.

Oh, A50: the thing I thought I knew about shiro? Totally wrong, so yeah.
-Cerb

If we fail and TWIE is town, Farside is clear.
If we succeed, turn to day 5.

If we lynch scum again, I should absolutely have knowledge of Farside's alignment.

Farside is not clear without us figuring out where DGB could have allied on D2. Things still aren't locked up there, TWIE is *not* the only possible link from the chart I saw.

I mean, I get your position, we've discussed this, but there ARE scenarios in existence that make this work badly for us.

-Cerb

Pedit: do you believe fuzzy is scum? If not, then scum COULD NOT have voted as a collective because THEY DIDNT HAVE PT ACCESS. Only if fuzzy is scum/told scum about planning to use this event could they have organized in advance.

@fuzzy: did you tell anyone in the game at all about this event before you used it?

[Reasonably Rational]

Lynch scum today and tomorrow? If the fundamental position your maintaining is wrong, then we wouldn't be lynching scum today and tomorrrow, so the whole plan sorta falls apart.

Oh, A50: the thing I thought I knew about shiro? Totally wrong, so yeah.
-Cerb

If we fail and TWIE is town, Farside is clear.
If we succeed, turn to day 5.

If we lynch scum again, I should absolutely have knowledge of Farside's alignment.

Farside is not clear without us figuring out where DGB could have allied on D2. Things still aren't locked up there, TWIE is *not* the only possible link from the chart I saw.

I mean, I get your position, we've discussed this, but there ARE scenarios in existence that make this work badly for us.

-Cerb

Pedit: do you believe fuzzy is scum? If not, then scum COULD NOT have voted as a collective because THEY DIDNT HAVE PT ACCESS. Only if fuzzy is scum/told scum about planning to use this event could they have organized in advance.

@fuzzy: did you tell anyone in the game at all about this event before you used it?

This is a Varsoon game. Scum have daychat.

Titus, the event specifically said ALL PT's are locked except alliances.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Mastina, Your reads have not changed for days. You are absolutely refusing to listen and you're now days behind in analysis.

The gatekeeper on the flips is almost certainly scum, debatable if they are a gem.

We already lynched the traitor, so looking for a traitor there is dumb.

TWIE is basically letting you defend the fuck out of him now. You're not even pretending there's a case on Snarky that doesn't suppose TWIE is town. He made up out of full cloth this mystical blocker.

Snarky is town.

Titus. We know the flips are being controlled by the gems.

...

It's not fucking debatable.

-Cerb

Pedit: Titus, lol. That is the clearest case of of confbias I've ever seen. I tell you why the scenario you suggested is wrong, and you decide that the new facts of the situation also suppprt your conclusion.

[Reasonably Rational]

Lynch scum today and tomorrow? If the fundamental position your maintaining is wrong, then we wouldn't be lynching scum today and tomorrrow, so the whole plan sorta falls apart.

Oh, A50: the thing I thought I knew about shiro? Totally wrong, so yeah.
-Cerb

If we fail and TWIE is town, Farside is clear.
If we succeed, turn to day 5.

If we lynch scum again, I should absolutely have knowledge of Farside's alignment.

Farside is not clear without us figuring out where DGB could have allied on D2. Things still aren't locked up there, TWIE is *not* the only possible link from the chart I saw.

I mean, I get your position, we've discussed this, but there ARE scenarios in existence that make this work badly for us.

-Cerb

Pedit: do you believe fuzzy is scum? If not, then scum COULD NOT have voted as a collective because THEY DIDNT HAVE PT ACCESS. Only if fuzzy is scum/told scum about planning to use this event could they have organized in advance.

@fuzzy: did you tell anyone in the game at all about this event before you used it?

Yeah the player encouraging this thought process is more likely scum in my book.

Puts rr on permanent scum list.

Farside: the only way you're scum is if scum utilized the beach city event votes to allow you to pretend to pit 2 votes on NC. The only way that could happen is if DGB were in communication with the scum team. Titus is suggesting that TWIE is the only possible link, and I'm reminding her that he is not, so there is no clear connection between your alignment and TWIES.

What part of that makes you upset?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

The gatekeeper on the flips is almost certainly scum, debatable if they are a gem.

We already lynched the traitor, so looking for a traitor there is dumb.

The Crystal Gems as a whole are the flip gate-keepers so these two lines really make not one lick of sense coming back to back ...

Titus seems to be resisting the idea that the flips are controlled by you guys, because it's anti-town aa fuck for you to be deliberately forcing a slot you should believe is town to use a power she has when you can make that unnecessary (a power which, btw, challenges the gems ability to control the stress level through deciding when flips occur...wonder why they'd want THAT to get wasted?).

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

They're very unlikely to be scum, because math.

Even if they were conftown, I would still tell you it's best to not waste powers of townreads when we don't have to.

How does anyone think the gems are actually looking out for towns best interests at this point, with the repeated instances of anti-town behavior by their members?

-Cerb

Oh, and farside, my reads were safely placed in A50s hands yesterday, and are in Titus and Shiro today. I have no reason to answer your question(though to be honest, until your last post I had no idea what question you were referring to).

[Reasonably Rational]

When I get the chance to talk to Drixx, we will be voting either Snarky or TWIE.

From my perspective, both will, with a town flip, mostly clear another slot.
With a scum flip, they will implicate another slot.

Prior to mastins revelation, TWIE was a townread of Drixxs, and Snarky a scumread, and given that I know varsoon doesn't like cops, I would be utterly unsurprised if there were numerous false positives in the game, I don't give much weight to the guilty.

Personally, I'm more likely to vote snarky than TWIE, because I find masins request reasonable and that follows with my other heads reads, but I don't think Drixx has caught wind of the situation, so we'll see where he's at asap

Anyways, just wanted my thoughts to be on the record as it were in case some sort of quick lynch happens while I sleep.

-Cerb

Pedit: thanks A50. Unfortunately that doesn't allow us to exclude anyone. :/

[Reasonably Rational]

Shadow_Step has no other non-factional abilities or Episode Events besides the ability to confirm this information.

Wait, that's it?

That isn't nearly as confirmed as you told me you would be. In fact, that isn't confirmed at all.

How confirmed did he tell you he would be/what did he say would happen?

-Cerb

Pedit: I mean, realistically if he just said it's kinda like an IC, what exactly were you expecting? What he did is far from an IC (and pretty fucking anti-town tbh, since I don't actually see ANY positive effect from him telling scum that he's a VT), but I can't imagine what else he could have been referring to. "Like an IC" seems to mean publicly, mod confirmed reveal of something related to his role, and there's basically nothing role related that could be "revealed" which would confirm his alignment.

[Reasonably Rational]

I don't know what vote counts you're seeing but each and every scum lynch has been hard faught for with scum standing in the way.

Do tell.

Because VCA preeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty much shows otherwise.

It's DWTS right now (you actually made me miss the opener, not to mention, my dinner), so no proof. I didn't get Skybird's iso finished, yet alone Varsoon's. But when you've shut up, I've responded to everything, and DWTS is over, I'll show it.

Great, then we'll color the vote counts and show it.

But for now, pretty sure given no one healed grapes and grapes wasn't BP, that should be all the evidence there.

I am watching the voice and eating dinner now.

How do we know either of those things, that nobody healed grapes and he isn't BP? You said yourself we have like "7" protectives.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Wait, that's it?

That isn't nearly as confirmed as you told me you would be. In fact, that isn't confirmed at all.

I told you I got the crappiest role lol

I thought this clears me because I'm obviously not responsible for the scum events like Message recieved?

Lol no.

It specifically says non-factional in there. Like A50 said, all it does is confirm that if you're scum, you're just a goon.

And if you're town, you terribly misplayed this.

Why weren't you trying to appear as a strong or of some sort? Or pushing people hard andbeing super active? The only value a VT has is in their scumhunting, and getting killed instead of an actual PR.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Ok I'm going to put an end to this.

Not Chara passively protected Grapes while they were allied. Not Chara also didn't claim to Grapes while they were allied. Therefore, Grapes didn't know he was being protected.

Knowing this, Skybird more than likely really did try to kill Grapes. Therefore, TWIE wouldn't have revealed Skybird's attempt to kill Grapes, giving town yet another confirmed town, if they were scum together.

That...makes a lot of sense.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Ok I'm going to put an end to this.

Not Chara passively protected Grapes while they were allied. Not Chara also didn't claim to Grapes while they were allied. Therefore, Grapes didn't know he was being protected.

Knowing this, Skybird more than likely really did try to kill Grapes. Therefore, TWIE wouldn't have revealed Skybird's attempt to kill Grapes, giving town yet another confirmed town, if they were scum together.

That...makes a lot of sense.

-Cerb

So, scum know NC's role? Then why did she lie to us. Not even a reflexively targeting Grapes? Read quality plummets when people lie.

Why would scum know NC'S role?

It seems pretty obvious that the gems are able to chat with people before they die (as evidenced by MoI mentioning that NCs scumread on me has increased), so it seems this information was likely claimed by NC posthumously, in whatever chat the gems have access to. If we're certain there is a scum slot among the gems, then scum learned this whenever NC told the rest of the gems, but there's no reason to think they knew about it any earlier.

-Cerb

Pedit: oh, you mean n1 action. They said it was passive Titus. There wouldn't be anything to claim?

[Reasonably Rational]

Umm.

Nothing TWIE has said has anything to do with scumreading snarky?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Ok I'm going to put an end to this.

Not Chara passively protected Grapes while they were allied. Not Chara also didn't claim to Grapes while they were allied. Therefore, Grapes didn't know he was being protected.

Knowing this, Skybird more than likely really did try to kill Grapes. Therefore, TWIE wouldn't have revealed Skybird's attempt to kill Grapes, giving town yet another confirmed town, if they were scum together.

That...makes a lot of sense.

-Cerb

So, scum know NC's role? Then why did she lie to us. Not even a reflexively targeting Grapes? Read quality plummets when people lie.

Why would scum know NC'S role?

It seems pretty obvious that the gems are able to chat with people before they die (as evidenced by MoI mentioning that NCs scumread on me has increased), so it seems this information was likely claimed by NC posthumously, in whatever chat the gems have access to. If we're certain there is a scum slot among the gems, then scum learned this whenever NC told the rest of the gems, but there's no reason to think they knew about it any earlier.

-Cerb

Pedit: oh, you mean n1 action. They said it was passive Titus. There wouldn't be anything to claim?

It was an action. Period. Passives are things that don't effect other players, like my BP.. It should have been submitted, especially in the light of the NK. We know NC isn't scum but this shit pisses me off.

You think scum don't have a rolecop given all this power?

DGB was a rolecop wasn't she? Traitor rolecop=less likely the rest of the team has a rolecop?

Umm.

Nothing TWIE has said has anything to do with scumreading snarky?

-Cerb

TWIE preemptively claimed Snarky blocked him to explain why his vig will not work.

Are you saying TWIE is lying about being blocked?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Ascetic doubled, DGB was probably more of a scum backup type but that is speculating.

Of course TWIE would. Even if he didn't, it's a convienently excuse he did not out until AFTER we talked about leaching him.

Why would he lie about being blocked+claim a vig, when he could have instead claimed any number of killing abilities thst don't rely upon another slot blocking him? If he had been the one to suggest removing snarky to allow him to prove his claim I'd be inclined to agree with you, but he didn't. That was wholly conftowns idea.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Ascetic doubled, DGB was probably more of a scum backup type but that is speculating.

Of course TWIE would. Even if he didn't, it's a convienently excuse he did not out until AFTER we talked about leaching him.

Why would he lie about being blocked+claim a vig, when he could have instead claimed any number of killing abilities thst don't rely upon another slot blocking him? If he had been the one to suggest removing snarky to allow him to prove his claim I'd be inclined to agree with you, but he didn't. That was wholly conftowns idea.

-Cerb

Yeah, the same conftown that comes up with excuses not to lynch her guilty.

Lie and claim blocked explains no second kill so TWIE can pretend to be a "season finale" vig as scum.

TWIE's result did not tell us anything we didn't know. Namely, grapes is town.

There's no reason to keep TWIE alive.

The worst case scenario, we clear Farside.

There's no clear from lynching Snarky. We just wreck my plan.

Nobody KNEW grapes was town. There is a huge gulf between probtown by play and conftown cuz scum shot at them.

Snarky and twie lynches, if they flip town, both clear another slot (fuzzy in snarkys case, farside in TWIE's case), and implicate another slot if they flip scum...except TWIE's clear if town is actually weaker than snarkys clear on fuzzy. That, plus the recent information about twie makes it seem a lot more valuable to lynch snarky over TWIE.

-Cerb

Pedit. Well. If that was real. Umm.

Random, ally tonight?

[Reasonably Rational]

I don't have an alliance and therefore can not vote. I submitted random for my ally last night.

I'll have a lot more to say, unless shiro does it for me, about Titus' thoughts etc.

For the moment though, everybody should clarify whether or not they can vote, so we know if a lynch is even possible today. With 3 deaths last night(and thus up to 3 people who can't ally), and the short day yesterday, it might not be.

We also might have a missing kill to resolve.

@TWIE: who did you shoot last night?

@Varsoon: when did those cluster deaths happen, NAR wise? If someone submitted a kill for someone who the cluster would have killed, would the clusterm have killed whoever was next in line as top contributor, or would it simply have killed one less person?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Guys, can we slow this shit down a bit?

I'm so far out of the loop this game and that isn't good.

I didn't try for an alliance.

I think shit is gonna have to slow down, because by my count so far/declared allance plans in thread, 4 out of 13 players didn't ally and thus can't vote(myself, shiro (I didn't ask shiro, but he didn't make arrangements in thread and Titus and I both had other plans lined up), farside (who was supposed to ally with titus), and you grapes. Just three more and we can't lynch today.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I thought he was scum and I was tired of the argument going on.
Anyways. First things first, who targeted me last night and why?
Second who is in an alliance?

BS, if you thought he was scum you would know he wouldn't get lynched. Only town was hated.

This is important. Generally, when a vote is placed all previous votes are removed.

Snarky was at 4 votes, one of which belonged to farside, at the time of her quintuple vote to hammer.

This means when she voted, one would have been removed from snarky, putting him at three votes, plus five more....so eight total.

Which was only enough votes to lynch him if he was town. Her hammer would have never worked on scum, and implies knowledge that he was town, or that she doesn't know how voting/her own abilities work.

Can you vote today farside?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm going to get more involved now. I didn't realize that not being in an alliance would nullify my vote. This kinda sucks.

What are your scumreads cerb?

Nobody knew that except for scum.

Farside's at the top for the reason I just gave, along with a host of other things. TWIE is also a possibility because of the missing kill last night, but that's dependent upon varsoon and his answers to my question. The gems could have a traitor within who convinced them going into the night at -4 stress would somehow be beneficial, but I don't know which one that could be. I know who two of them are, but without knowing al three I can't judge which is most likely among all of them.

There's also a nonzero chance shiro is scum, considering he hasn't actualy done anything all game long.

Fuzzy is 90% town with snarkys flip (only way he's not is if his team deliberately let snarky live because they were afraid they would be lynched if they didn't have him around as a distraction), farside flip is most relevant for this particular scenario since she was, during the time the event was decided, the other most likely lynchee.

@kraska: you can stop this event and give us all our votes back? Please do.

-Cerb

Pedit : grapes is right actually, if we have enough votes for lynch we should consider not stopping it

...farside weren't you supposed to apply titus? Why didn't you?

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, I think everyone who stated they can't vote should place a vote somewhere to prove that's the case, before kraska ends the event.

VOTE: Farside22

And once he does end the event, NOBODY VOTE UNLESS IT'S ON FARSIDE, since we know she can place at least 5 votes, so right now everyone is at l-2.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Well I just don't like the idea of giving scum the chance to non-communally defend or point fingers at people and not have to vote. After what happened yesterday I don't know what to expect so I'll just stop it now

Kraska wait.

There's good data to gain here, that's 100% unable to be manipulated. There could be value in knowing who scum denied votes to.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also with what happened yesterday and your alliance with her allowing it to happen again, it's actually BETTER for the moment that nobody vote until we figure out what we're doing with farside, since she can save herself by lynching anyone else we vote enough. Warring wagons involving her could be very bad.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Can you explain why you and farside are still allied when she told titus she would ally with her?

And alright, that's a good reason to wait as well. Using your ability to lower stress seems pretty bad.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Can you explain why she voted the way she did, when it only out 8 votes on snarky and wouldn't have lynched him if he were scum?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also who do you think is scum kraska?

-Cerb

Pedit: Alright, I'll break this down.

TWIE claimed to be a season finale only vig. The cluster event said McMenno and XK were killed by it. Titus was obviously the scum kill, since she was immune to negative stuff on the finale, so that must have been the scums -4 stress kill.

We're missing TWIES kill.

Fuzzy controlled the lynch event yesterday, and was given the chance to lynch snarky with no accountability. Given that snarky flipped town, there's little reason for scum!fuzzy to not take the opportunity to get a free kill. Since he did not, it is very unlikely that fuzzy is scum, UNLESS one of his teammates was likely to be lynched if fuzzy wasn't around to draw the heat.

Farside has not been concluded to not be groupscum; what we have concluded is that IN ORDER for her to be groupscum, DGB had to have coordinated/spoke with a member of her team at some point prior to beachapalooza. There were two opportunities for this: D3, with TWIE, and D2, when Farside and Skybird claimed to be allied with one another (dgb could have allied with either and they could have lied to cover for it, or DGB could have just forced an alliance with one of the other no alliance claimed on D2 and found scum).

I have no idea how we should feel about the gems. There's a slight inconsistency between the gems win condition as told to me, and as told to Titus.

[Reasonably Rational]

Can you explain why she voted the way she did, when it only out 8 votes on snarky and wouldn't have lynched him if he were scum?

-Cerb

Uhh how does her vote thing work? I think I may have misunderstood from what she said in the pt

I don't know how her vote thing works, honestly, but from.what was shown in thread and previous voting mechanics is employed by Varsoon, she placed exactly 5 votes on snarky when he was at 4 votes, including her own. That removed her previous single vote, and replaced it with a quintuple vote, so a total of +4 votes...which put snarky at 8 votes.

9 was the threshold yesterday. 8 only lynched if the person you were lynching was town.

My current thought process on this sequence of events is scum!farside knew she was going to be lynched at some point, but had enough points to force through two mislynches. She dumped points to force the fuzzy mislynch and was planning on allying titus, but when stress didn't drop and they still had their -4 stress kill, they decided to kill titus and activate the event in place today, while farside made sure she allied with someone else, so she could make sure to force another mislynch today without being at risk of getting lynched herself, or just force a no lynch today (cause free scum kill), then force a mislynch tomorrow.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Given her abilities...... they seem third party opposed to scum. I don't see scum given those abilities. Knowing me I am probably wrong

Does it matter at all, if she intentionally uses her abilities in such a way that using them will only kill town, as she did yesterday?

Farside22 is in a pretty good spot to help mafia over town.

She already did yesterday, and Cerb already pointed out that by her previous posting of how many points she has, she can do it again at any time someone gets 2 votes. Like ... she claimed to be town with a 3rd party alternate wincon, and if that's true, she would be guilty of game throwing at this point. Add to that the fact that she

ensured

any triggers set up to move stress got bypassed when she did what she did, she is directly responsible for Titus' death.

Titus was with us and talking most of the night, and there's a lot there that needs to be discussed. The first item was to make sure Farside didn't wriggle out of the consequences of her actions. But hey look ... a bunch of us can't vote. Gee ... wonder why that happened today of all days?

Also, do you think stress is important?

Clearly. Stress being where it was is the only reason Titus is dead.


~Drixx


P-Edit: Kraska you're wrong. Titus was pulling gambits yesterday to try and see if specific people would bite. Shiro was in alliance with us and can confirm that Titus said several times during the day to say nothing while she was doing something. What she said in thread yesterday doesn't at all line up with what she said in alliance, especially during the night when it was clear the -4 stress meant she was going to be dead this morning. She made it

VERY

clear that Farside needed to be gone, and made some other requests which we'll get to when appropriate.

[Reasonably Rational]

Given her abilities...... they seem third party opposed to scum. I don't see scum given those abilities.

her hypothetical scum team stands more to lose than gain here. you have to admit that

my scum pool is twie, shadow and maybe shiro
i wont even consider a farside wagon until i see these three flip or if farside proves, once again, to be antitown enuff to warrant a PL

Are you scum? Because you seem to be entirely disconnected from reality here. Fuzzy, if scum, got an easy mislynch, ensured Titus would be killed, has an event going now that will likely cause today to be a no lynch OR cause stress to drop to have it stopped, and even then all she needs is 2 votes on someone besides herself and she can instant lynch them.

The net result of her actions is at least three deaths before her own, possibly four. In what world would a scum team who we suspect could have 3 members left NOT trade one for 3 or 4 in the late game? Why would you even think that?

Furthermore, how much more antitown does it get than to specifically place exactly enough votes on someone to kill them if and only if they are town? That implies certain knowledge. Who has certain knowledge?

And you want to see three flips before you'll even consider farside? So that's what... six more dead? So basically you are demanding that we go to what could be MYLO before you'll deign to consider lynching the scummiest player in the game? Seriously?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Gem Crystals are all town guys.
I think we need to lynch Farside at this point. She is too much of a liability to town.
I'm not allied.
VOTE: Farside
(test)

So last scum would be between Shiro/randomidget/TheFuzzylogic99/TheWayItEnds/MagnaofIllusion/Shadow_step

I agree with this analysis. My top choice out of these would be MoI. I have a pretty strong event in the bag btw

why didn't you ally with us last night.

Also, it looks like we won't have enough votes for a lynch unless the event is ended. Let's get everyone's claim and test done, and then I guess we have to end it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Gem Crystals are all town guys.
I think we need to lynch Farside at this point. She is too much of a liability to town.

No they're not town. They are a self aligned third party faction. Furthermore, Yume told us one win condition and Titus a different one. At this point, it's not safe to assume they're benevolent and the best case scenario would be that they have a wincon that doesn't mean town loses. Even then, we have to have one of us survive to win, so it's clear the gems can (and will, I'm quite sure, if they have the chance) win alone.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, I think everyone who stated they can't vote should place a vote somewhere to prove that's the case, before kraska ends the event.

VOTE: Farside22

And once he does end the event, NOBODY VOTE UNLESS IT'S ON FARSIDE, since we know she can place at least 5 votes, so right now everyone is at l-2.

-Cerb

This doesn't happen unless votes can't be reached.
Don't listen to the player who isn't trying to find scum.


Here is my thought.
If we can get enough votes without getting rid of the event, scum can't do actions or kill, everyone else can.

That means everyone should use there ability and those that can get info about others can clear players that make them confirmed.

...

Because scum would have caused an event that would keep them from submitting kills, instead of just making sure they had alliances in place? That, by the say, is shy I want everyone who CLAIMS they can't vote to place a vote, so no alliances arranged between scum and kept secret can exist.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, I think everyone who stated they can't vote should place a vote somewhere to prove that's the case, before kraska ends the event.

VOTE: Farside22

And once he does end the event, NOBODY VOTE UNLESS IT'S ON FARSIDE, since we know she can place at least 5 votes, so right now everyone is at l-2.

-Cerb

This doesn't happen unless votes can't be reached.
Don't listen to the player who isn't trying to find scum.


Here is my thought.
If we can get enough votes without getting rid of the event, scum can't do actions or kill, everyone else can.

That means everyone should use there ability and those that can get info about others can clear players that make them confirmed.

Translation:

"If I can just snooker these idiots into letting me live another day, I get to trade for even more town!"

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I thought he was scum and I was tired of the argument going on.
Anyways. First things first, who targeted me last night and why?
Second who is in an alliance?

BS, if you thought he was scum you would know he wouldn't get lynched. Only town was hated.

How do you know I didn't have 5 votes to add?

See that means you believe or paid attention to my claim.

Anyways add 4 and he's scum the argument ends.
You get that somewhere.

He wasn't, I was wrong, we can still win but some scum apparently don't want to organize things first here.

This is also bullshit. Nobody is saying you didn't have 5 votes to place.

We're saying your previous vote would have been removed, based on all my experiences with literally every other varsoon game since I started playing on this site.

This means adding 5 votes to his 4 was REALLY only adding 4 votes, because your previous vote was removed.

8 total votes only lynched town.

Therefore, you either don't know how your own ability works, OR you knew he was going to flip town and only used enough points to lynch him.

Let's just ask the moderator.

@Varsoon: when someone places a new named vote using a different voting mechanic, if that mechanic doesn't specify that previous named votes remain in place, what happens to their previously placed votes?

[Reasonably Rational]

I thought he was scum and I was tired of the argument going on.
Anyways. First things first, who targeted me last night and why?
Second who is in an alliance?

BS, if you thought he was scum you would know he wouldn't get lynched. Only town was hated.

How do you know I didn't have 5 votes to add?

See that means you believe or paid attention to my claim.

Anyways add 4 and he's scum the argument ends.
You get that somewhere.

He wasn't, I was wrong, we can still win but some scum apparently don't want to organize things first here.

This is also bullshit. Nobody is saying you didn't have 5 votes to place.

We're saying your previous vote would have been removed, based on all my experiences with literally every other varsoon game since I started playing on this site.

This means adding 5 votes to his 4 was REALLY only adding 4 votes, because your previous vote was removed.

8 total votes only lynched town.

Therefore, you either don't know how your own ability works, OR you knew he was going to flip town and only used enough points to lynch him.

Let's just ask the moderator.

@Varsoon: when someone places a new named vote using a different voting mechanic, if that mechanic doesn't specify that previous named votes remain in place, what happens to their previously placed votes?

-Cerb, btw, sorry

[Reasonably Rational]

I do agree though that unless we're 100% positive the lynch today will be on scum, the event should be left active if it's possible to attain a lynch while it's in effect. That will preserve kraskas stress modification without moving things in the wrong direction, AND preserve his event nullification in case any other nasty things come our way.

Unfortunately though, it certainly seems like we won't have enough votes for a lynch.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I thought he was scum and I was tired of the argument going on.

Actually you used precisely enough votes to kill him if and only if he was town. That implies you knew he was town.

Anyways. First things first, who targeted me last night and why?

Nice attempt to deflect away from your coming reckoning.

Second who is in an alliance?

Looks like just you. Curious that ... the plan in thread was for you and Titus to ally. Titus turns up dead and you just happen to turn up in an alliance ... with a person demanding three other lynches happen before you. With an event going on that makes it so nobody can vote unless they're in an alliance.

totes all just a co-incidence though, right?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Taking a look at the first Steven Universe, there should not have more than 6 scum in total).

Also, I think everyone who stated they can't vote should place a vote somewhere to prove that's the case, before kraska ends the event.

VOTE: Farside22

And once he does end the event, NOBODY VOTE UNLESS IT'S ON FARSIDE, since we know she can place at least 5 votes, so right now everyone is at l-2.

-Cerb

This doesn't happen unless votes can't be reached.
Don't listen to the player who isn't trying to find scum.


Here is my thought.
If we can get enough votes without getting rid of the event, scum can't do actions or kill, everyone else can.

That means everyone should use there ability and those that can get info about others can clear players that make them confirmed.

...

Because scum would have caused an event that would keep them from submitting kills, instead of just making sure they had alliances in place? That, by the say, is shy I want everyone who CLAIMS they can't vote to place a vote, so no alliances arranged between scum and kept secret can exist.

-Cerb

HI, my pt stayed open during the night, so I asked kraska to join me.
I'm town.

Who did you alliance with last night or try to?

You had agreed to ally with Titus. Why did you change in the middle of the night?

You're not town. You're at best a 3rd party who has done considerable damage to town, and you have what appears to be prescience about who is town (just enough votes to kill Snarky only if he's town, changing your alliance as if you knew the alliance you agreed to would fail for some reason, etc...).

You're going to eat rope. The only question is how much

more

damage the rest of the game is going to let you do first.

~Drixx

P.S. - Stop trying to deflect. Our alliance choice was one of the last things posted during the day phase yesterday. It's not a fucking mystery.

[Reasonably Rational]

I believe we should do all our dia cussing and arranging etc before kraska shuts down the event, to make sure no more ridiculous things happen before we at least talk about shit.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Is it confirmed farside has 5 votes?

Farside claimed 14 points 2 days ago. She also claimed that it took a point for each extra vote (I think, not positive). So that would leave her with either 10 or 9 points left, plus whatever she may have gained since.

Snarky was at l-5 (or 4) when she used her power, IF it just adds votes, instead of replacing her vote. If it replaces her vote, he was at l-6 or l-5.

Either way, it doesn't seem like there's a restriction of, say, can't be more than half the votes on a wagon...so if there is one, it's a hard limit on number of votes, which is at least 5, OR there may be a limit on how many other slots must be on the wagon.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm almost certain if the day ends in a no lynch, neither effect will take place, because a no lynch is not the same as a non scum lynch.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Farside, TWIE hasn't shown up yet. What exactly is there to push him on? I need to know what his response is before I can say anything more.

And his kill or not has no relation to your voting pattern only working on town. You haven't even tried to explain that. I can actually think of a few different explanations, but instead you're just going off on other tangents.

Why did you place exactly enough votes on snarky to lynch him if he was town, but not enough to kynch him if he was scum?

Also, I don't particularly feel kraska is scummy. *shrug*

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Welp, now that MoI has 100% outed you, Random, can you explain how you both thought gems were all town, but also had MoI as your top suspect out of creatures pool?

Also, MoI, we only fought Farside's kynch on one day. And we pushed REALLY hard to get farside lynched on D3, after we realized we'd be able to bypass her lynch protection, if she had any more.

Not that that went badly since we still ended up on DGB, but you're absolutely misrepresenting us fighting against Farside's lynch.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

The way he said he had an action that worked with Greg (Cakez' fakeclaim) made me think that was a fakeclaim.

Why didn't you say that before?

Farside, TWIE hasn't shown up yet. What exactly is there to push him on? I need to know what his response is before I can say anything more.

And his kill or not has no relation to your voting pattern only working on town. You haven't even tried to explain that. I can actually think of a few different explanations, but instead you're just going off on other tangents.

Why did you place exactly enough votes on snarky to lynch him if he was town, but not enough to kynch him if he was scum?

Also, I don't particularly feel kraska is scummy. *shrug*

-Cerb

That's not at all hard to understand.
Scum snarky would have taken one more to lynch.
Again I felt sure he was scum and was trying to prove it to stop the Titus tirade.

Touche in regards to twie
He will probably lurk till votes pile on him again.

Again I feel your going off weird tangents here.
Only scum wanted votes but only me and kraska are known to be in alliance together.
Only I'm scum because some hypothetically crap you made up.

If your town stop spamming the shit of this game, wait for everyone to show up and claim, then we can argue after.

So...you admit you were deliberately aiming for 8 votes?

And expected snarky to be at l-1 after that.

And just didn't care if he was town and you ended the day?

I actually feel it's more likely scum wanted us to no lynch today, buying them an extra NK, and then to have you force a mislynch on someone tomorrow, allowing yet another nk, so town would be down 3 more slots before anyone had a chance to lynch you. Maybe even 5 slots depending on how to our vote power functions and is limited.

Everyone has shown up except mastin and twie I think. Mastin usually posts in thr evening/early morning, and is also vla on weekends, and twie is twie and barely around ever.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

mid: does scum get an extra kill with a no lynch

A No Lynch keeps all of the Event outcomes from happening, as both are contingent on a lynch occurring.

Thanks you for dashing theories from rr.

I did not say a no lynch would give the scum team an extra kill. I actually CLEARLY said I believed a no lynch would result in none of the effects happening.

You clearly misunderstood me. When I said the plan was to force a no lynch todsy, and then did extra scum kill, I did not mean there could be TWO scum kills, but thst by forcing a no lynch versus normal game progression the scum team would come ahead one extra kill.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

mid: does scum get an extra kill with a no lynch

A No Lynch keeps all of the Event outcomes from happening, as both are contingent on a lynch occurring.

Thanks you for dashing theories from rr.

I did not say a no lynch would give the scum team an extra kill. I actually CLEARLY said I believed a no lynch would result in none of the effects happening.

You clearly misunderstood me. When I said the plan was to force a no lynch todsy, and then did extra scum kill,

I did not mean there could be TWO scum kills, but thst by forcing a no lynch versus normal game progression the scum team would come ahead one extra kill.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Farside, so right now it seems you and kraska can probably force a lynch through the event if you wanted to.

Who would you lynch?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

If scum believed today was likely to end in a town lynch, why would they activate this event?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Farside, so right now it seems you and kraska can probably force a lynch through the event if you wanted to.

Who would you lynch?

-Cerb

Not sure why you think that.

Why didn't you all ignore with Shiro for today instead of submitting a range domain name?

I have no idea what your last sentence means.

And considering you could place 5 votes yesterday, if you can place 6 today and kraska makes one...you can lynch someone

If scum believed today was likely to end in a town lynch, why would they activate this event?

-Cerb

Why would they do it with a no lynch?

Maybe they had to, don't know that.

What? What do you mean why would they do it with a no lynch? Obviously a no lynch is preferable to a scum lynch for the scum team. ...

mid: does scum get an extra kill with a no lynch

A No Lynch keeps all of the Event outcomes from happening, as both are contingent on a lynch occurring.

Thanks you for dashing theories from rr.

I did not say a no lynch would give the scum team an extra kill. I actually CLEARLY said I believed a no lynch would result in none of the effects happening.

You clearly misunderstood me. When I said the plan was to force a no lynch todsy, and then did extra scum kill,

I did not mean there could be TWO scum kills, but thst by forcing a no lynch versus normal game progression the scum team would come ahead one extra kill.

-Cerb

The issue I have with this is that I'd be lynch as town, scum gwt to kill a player and how is that better.

Of course you have to believe I'm town to get my issue.

How is this even relevant?

Were haVing a communications breakdown here farside.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I think you misunderstood me about the event activating thing.

First of all, every event in this game has been voluntary. Sure, there may be a mandatory scum event, but it is so unlikely it shouldn't even be considered when evaluating this situation.

It simply does not make sense for scum to use this if they expected a town lynch today.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Generally, when a vote is placed all previous votes are removed.

This becomes relevant if, and only if, farside was aware of this fact.

Demonstrate knowledge that farside would be aware her previous vote would be removed, and you have a case.
Fail to demonstrate that farside had knowledge, and you have something that is null.
And, public knowledge and/or past V games don't count for this. Players can and will miss facts.

Pull quotes from farside's iso which show she knows her voting power would remove her previous vote, and you'll have me interested.
Otherwise, I'll just go with the lynch TWIE first plan which, yknow. Is what I promised.

Keep reading Mastin. That's what I was tryng to figure out, and later she states she was planning for 8 votes.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Fyi Mastin (and Shiro will corroborate) Titus set out an action plan, and the first point was lynching Farside, not TWIE. Sorting TWIE (not lynching him) was actually the fifth or sixth item.

Just something you might want to know since you're concerned about this promise.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Mathblade's role has been revealed at this time.
Mathblade was Lars, aligned with Earth.
Due to this, the stress will increase by 1.
However, this change in stress will happen as a part of the Climax Phase, and will not change requirements for Events or Actions submitted during Climax 2.
Lars' full role functions as follows:

Spoiler:

Lars, A General Annoyance to Everyone
Why does everything bad happen to me?
You are aligned with the Town Faction. You are a Human.
I see her at work. Why do I need to see her on my day off? You gain whatever allying bonuses that are afforded to the player you ally with. You can not ally with the same player twice in a row. During the Season Finale, you may use any of the allying powers you've gained access to in the past in addition to any powers you gain as a part of your Season Finale Alliance. I was acting weird all day and you all just LIKED IT?! If you do not take any action during the Climax Phase, all non-factional actions that target you fail. During the Season Finale, you are unaffected by all actions and you are a non-valid target for Events. Ugh. Everyday in Beach City is weird. That's why I hate it here. You are aligned with Earth . In order to win the game, all threats to Earth must be removed from the game. In order to win the game, at least one Earth-aligned player must be alive.

Your previous post is wrong. We had a mid climax stress change occur already, and thus anyone paying attention should have known that if a stress change happened after the Climax began, it would not affect action resolution or requirements.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Player that could have an alliance today but don't rr and shiro.

Getting tired of your manipulative bullshit. You keep trying to throw shade on us because you're caught and cornered like a rat and you know it.

We had a really good reason to ally differently today and we actually told the person we were trying to ally and it was right here in the thread.

If you want to talk about alliances ... let's start with you agreeing to ally Titus so that you two could stop poisoning the thread (you were both doing it, and you are STILL doing it) and get yourselves in check, but somehow you mysteriously knew that you needed to ally elsewhere during the night.

@Kraska - Be honest please. When did Farside suggest that you two ally instead of her previous arrangement and whatever you would have done? Was it

AFTER

Varsoon posted the flip and the stress moved, but there was the note there saying that the stress change wouldn't affect anything submitted in the night? Basically what I'm asking is ... did Farside basically do an "OMG, we can kill Titus!" and then ask you to ally? Because ... that's what it looks like from the outside, and you're literally helping her get away with it.

@Farside - No interruptions please. We would like to see what Kraska will say about when this all went down, because we asked you earlier and you already lied about it. You claim that you decided before yesterday ended that you weren't going to ally Titus, AND TOLD HER SO, when you did no such thing. Even if we take your earlier statement as truth, you basically said "I deceived the only actual conftown in the game who I knew had claimed to be BP while in an alliance and placed her in a situation where she would have no alliance." - I mean ... I get that your goose is totally cooked when Kraska checks the time stamps and confirms that you changed your mind about allying only AFTER you realized your team could kill Titus ... but what you said before wasn't exactly much less damning. (P.S. - Post #8845 you agreed to ally Titus, so yeah).

---

And the rest of you... I already pointed out that the gems were essentially a very large masonry. Now look they've admitted to being exactly a masonry. Still believe the scum team is small and low powered like the flips we've seen or do you think MAYBE ... JUST MAYBE ... a high powered role like lynchproof, alliance destroyer, nearly unliminted multivoter might be scum? And oh look ... the player with that role has taken literally the scummiest actions in the entire game! At this point, the game will be fucking over before people stop with absurd shit like "Scum wouldn't trade 1 for 4" or whatever the hell it is if Farside manages to get out of today.

It's not a fucking policy lynch. It's so obviously scum that it's like a gigantic phallus slapping the game in the face at this point. AND we now know that there was a group of individual 3P called "the leftovers" and one of them got to join with the gems after beach-a-palooza. It therefore makes sense that Farside could have done the whole vote for Not Chara thing, knowing that her vote would count full, then use it to try and push the idea that she and Not Chara were both conftown (which she did!!!) and then she could have joined the scum team. It fits ... and frankly it fills in what looks like a gigantic power void between scum and town+gems (assuming the gems are essentially a town friendly masonry).

~Drixx

P.S. - Because this is just a game and because I'm not actually an asshole, please accept my fondest and best birthday wishes Farside. May you see many more in good health and good company, and may you never grow tired of anticipating the next. I hope this one is a great one for you.

[Reasonably Rational]

Player that could have an alliance today but don't rr and shiro.

Getting tired of your manipulative bullshit. You keep trying to throw shade on us because you're caught and cornered like a rat and you know it.

We had a really good reason to ally differently today and we actually told the person we were trying to ally and it was right here in the thread.

If you want to talk about alliances ... let's start with you agreeing to ally Titus so that you two could stop poisoning the thread (you were both doing it, and you are STILL doing it) and get yourselves in check, but somehow you mysteriously knew that you needed to ally elsewhere during the night.

@Kraska - Be honest please. When did Farside suggest that you two ally instead of her previous arrangement and whatever you would have done? Was it

AFTER

Varsoon posted the flip and the stress moved, but there was the note there saying that the stress change wouldn't affect anything submitted in the night? Basically what I'm asking is ... did Farside basically do an "OMG, we can kill Titus!" and then ask you to ally? Because ... that's what it looks like from the outside, and you're literally helping her get away with it.

@Farside - No interruptions please. We would like to see what Kraska will say about when this all went down, because we asked you earlier and you already lied about it. You claim that you decided before yesterday ended that you weren't going to ally Titus, AND TOLD HER SO, when you did no such thing. Even if we take your earlier statement as truth, you basically said "I deceived the only actual conftown in the game who I knew had claimed to be BP while in an alliance and placed her in a situation where she would have no alliance." - I mean ... I get that your goose is totally cooked when Kraska checks the time stamps and confirms that you changed your mind about allying only AFTER you realized your team could kill Titus ... but what you said before wasn't exactly much less damning. (P.S. - Post #8845 you agreed to ally Titus, so yeah).

---

And the rest of you... I already pointed out that the gems were essentially a very large masonry. Now look they've admitted to being exactly a masonry. Still believe the scum team is small and low powered like the flips we've seen or do you think MAYBE ... JUST MAYBE ... a high powered role like lynchproof, alliance destroyer, nearly unliminted multivoter might be scum? And oh look ... the player with that role has taken literally the scummiest actions in the entire game! At this point, the game will be fucking over before people stop with absurd shit like "Scum wouldn't trade 1 for 4" or whatever the hell it is if Farside manages to get out of today.

It's not a fucking policy lynch. It's so obviously scum that it's like a gigantic phallus slapping the game in the face at this point. AND we now know that there was a group of individual 3P called "the leftovers" and one of them got to join with the gems after beach-a-palooza. It therefore makes sense that Farside could have done the whole vote for Not Chara thing, knowing that her vote would count full, then use it to try and push the idea that she and Not Chara were both conftown (which she did!!!) and then she could have joined the scum team. It fits ... and frankly it fills in what looks like a gigantic power void between scum and town+gems (assuming the gems are essentially a town friendly masonry).

~Drixx

P.S. - Because this is just a game and because I'm not actually an asshole, please accept my fondest and best birthday wishes Farside. May you see many more in good health and good company, and may you never grow tired of anticipating the next. I hope this one is a great one for you.

I already explained why I didnt.

Who did you say you were going to align with?

You know I'm town and your button hurt I'm calling you out as scum.

I mean the things that make no sense from you is that you have stated you give points to players that are going for 3p, no one else claimed anything like I did, so why do you think I'm lying?
Another thing is last SU, you flavor game the shit out of that game and I see nothing like that thus game.
Finally, you come in acting like only scum would want to vote, no one else can vote but me and kraska and now you have this scum want a nk.
You can't have both, frankly I'm very tired of you trying to think you should be allowed both.

See here is my issue, scum triggered this event, lynching a town member hurts them more, they can't do actions and town could POE that shit, you say nothing about that. You think I'm scum, but you want to vote me knowing the event, that gives scum 2 nk.
Now tell me why anything i've said should even read town.

Your other issue with this is kraska is going to end this event, I'm going to flip town and you will have this post following you into players heads.

So, my response tldr at the end.

Suck it scum bag.

In other words, you give up?

1.) Your explanation was a LIE. You said that you posted in the thread that you weren't going to ally Titus, but you never did that. Your reasons are irrelevant. You LIED to the only conftown in the game, agreed to ally with her, and you knew (because she claimed it) that she had BP as long as she was allied. So you intentionally set out to deny her an alliance today, then lied about it after the fact. It's like you're telling so many lies you can't keep up with them or something.

2.) We said after you multi-voted that we were going to submit ally with Random. Since it was so close to the end of the day, it seems like you probably should check with him and see why he didn't bother to keep up with things?

3.) Yeah good luck spinning that theory to anyone. We've been consistently solving the shit out of the game while all you've been doing is trying to shitpost enough to get people tired of the game and get them to check out. And you've had great success. Look at how few posts there are this day phase. And now that your first foil is dead, you've moved to us. The difference between Titus and us is that we'll just correct your shit and let the game decide. We won't carry on shitting all over the thread to give you cover. You maybe should have thought things out a bit better.

4.) We ARE deducing things by flavor. Shiro can vouch that we know pretty much who everyone is and which claims line up and which don't as much. What we are not and will not be doing, no matter how much you throw shade on us for it, is telling the game setup to this thread where scum can read it. Just like yesterday I told you that with obvious scum piled up there was no reason whatsoever for me to tell the people I suspect that I suspect them, but you keep claiming the question was never answered. I know you're desperate to know what we know. Tough shit.

4a.) As a second reason NOT to be doing any flavor crap in this thread: we're pretty sure that's why Yume died when she did. We were

explicitly

warned not to claim our flavor. Two people have done so outright. You did (but you're still alive...) and then Yume finally made a post and claimed Steven after she got outed by Titus. Then Yume got assassinated out of nowhere. Let's see ... Varsoon warns us not to flavor claim and says that doing so will be punished ... the game's main character flavor claims ... they get killed suddenly out of nowhere. Yeah ... I think 2+2 still equals 4. If YOU were town, as you keep asserting (even though you also claimed 3p), why are you still alive? You flavor claimed. You have an absurdly powerful role. You should be dead if you're town. You're not dead.

5.) I can't make heads or tails of the next couple lines you spewed out. I'm just going to assume you're having an awesome birthday and that it made sense to you when you wrote it. The only way today ends with a lynch is if you can pile on enough votes by yourself to hammer if you get Kraska to vote someone (since, I believe, you two are the only ones who can vote) OR if Kraska blows two separate abilities to unlock the day. Obviously you don't want the latter to happen because you can see that you would be lynched.

5a.) And what the hell is with you suggesting that we intentionally lynch a townie and calling that protown? Looking at our table of claims and info we received through trusted channels, there's nowhere near enough certainty that we would get ANY useful information if the scum team are forced by their own event to commute. Mislynches are a finite currency and you want to spend one with some half baked "plan" that it will somehow catch out the scum team? Seriously?

6.) Your point? We're well aware of what the event says. We've already commented on it. More than once.

7.) And you openly refuse to respond to any of the reasons we believe you are scum. You never have. You just assert "I'm town and Titus is terrible and tunneling me" but now the alliteration is blown because you killed Titus so you're just mumbling some bravado about your flip.


If you flip town, I'm the worst player to ever grace this site. The evidence that you are scum is so overwhelming at this point as to be staggering. And before you start throwing shade all over us, you might recall that at one point Titus was calling us your fucking defense attorney. We've been very rational in trying to figure you out. The preponderance of evidence says you're scum, and it's not even close. We're well beyond reasonable doubt territory here.

I have no interest in calling you names. So instead I wish you a happy, enjoyable and awesome birthday.

~Drixx

P.S. - But you're still scum.

[Reasonably Rational]

Snarky and twie lynches, if they flip town, both clear another slot (fuzzy in snarkys case, farside in TWIE's case), and implicate another slot if they flip scum...except TWIE's clear if town is actually weaker than snarkys clear on fuzzy. That, plus the recent information about twie makes it seem a lot more valuable to lynch snarky over TWIE.

-Cerb

Pedit. Well. If that was real. Umm.

Random, ally tonight?

Oh look ... here's us posting after you threw out your votes and unilaterally ended the day without letting people set up alliances and (more importantly) without letting the stress get adjusted. And the last thing there... that's us proposing alliance with Random.

FIVE minutes elapsed between your votes and the lynch post and threadlock. This implies you ensured Varsoon was around so that nobody could change stress or firm anything up before the thread lock. It was a deliberate and completely over the top scummy move on your part.

The only explanations that make any sense are:

1.) You're trying to look so over the top scummy that people will assume that you can't be scum (which is a dumb thing to think, but I've seen scum do it and get away with it)

2.) You have accepted that you're going down and you're now just getting as much in trade for your death as you can.

And yes: we are

specifically

keeping things hidden from scum. It will stay that way, no matter how much you try and make us look bad. Others have the info, so there's built in redundency. We don't have any need to share it here. There's only downside in doing so.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I think I forgot Snarky could roleblock me at the moment.

Oh rly.

Titus, earth to Titus.
Come in Titus.

Also if your going to pair me with every player you scum read, including math, I'm just going to avoid you for the rest of this game.

Rr: you can call me a lie all you want but I said this in thread.
If your going to continue to make shit up I'm going to keep showing that your making shit up.

Good luck showing us making things up. Protip for dealing with us: we don't make things up. We spend a bit too much of our time calling people out on their bullshit to create any of our own.

Now to address your assertion that you stated you weren't going to ally with Titus: you never did. The closest you came was a single post where you said if Titus kept doing something, you were just going to avoid her and the rest of the game. In spite of that statement though, you NEVER said "no, I am not allying with you tomorrow Titus", and you let her go into the night believing she had an alliance arranged with you. If she HADN'T she would have arranged an alliance with Shiro. That fact alone makes it obvious that whatever it was you said, it was NOT that you were not going to ally with her as previously agreed.

Snarky and twie lynches, if they flip town, both clear another slot (fuzzy in snarkys case, farside in TWIE's case), and implicate another slot if they flip scum...except TWIE's clear if town is actually weaker than snarkys clear on fuzzy. That, plus the recent information about twie makes it seem a lot more valuable to lynch snarky over TWIE.

-Cerb

Pedit. Well. If that was real. Umm.

Random, ally tonight?

Oh look ... here's us posting after you threw out your votes and unilaterally ended the day without letting people set up alliances and (more importantly) without letting the stress get adjusted. And the last thing there... that's us proposing alliance with Random.

FIVE minutes elapsed between your votes and the lynch post and threadlock. This implies you ensured Varsoon was around so that nobody could change stress or firm anything up before the thread lock. It was a deliberate and completely over the top scummy move on your part.

The only explanations that make any sense are:

1.) You're trying to look so over the top scummy that people will assume that you can't be scum (which is a dumb thing to think, but I've seen scum do it and get away with it)

2.) You have accepted that you're going down and you're now just getting as much in trade for your death as you can.

And yes: we are

specifically

keeping things hidden from scum. It will stay that way, no matter how much you try and make us look bad. Others have the info, so there's built in redundency. We don't have any need to share it here. There's only downside in doing so.

~Drixx

You seem to forget I could have hammer voted snarky day 3 and didn't, but that gets missed on purpose I'm sure.

It's irrelevant, not missed. You had just demonstrated a lynchproof trait, and DGB was a lost cause. There was no benefit to going to such lengths to save her slot.

-Cerb

Pedit: what info are you talking about fuzzy?

[Reasonably Rational]

And fuzzy, she didn't think she was hammering scum. She thought she was putting scum at l-1, and didn't care if she fucked the town over and mislynched.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

was talking about the info about my event...I somehow scanned over the detail. Don't know how bc I read the stupid thing several times but I did,


Kras
if you are going to reverse the scum event , than do it ......

We need to have twie cast a vote first.

He'll be prodded soon, so he has to show up.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

And fuzzy, she didn't think she was hammering scum. She thought she was putting scum at l-1, and didn't care if she fucked the town over and mislynched.

-Cerb

She doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt to represent her as actually thinking that. That's her "excuse" for what she did. I don't for a second believe that she actually thought she was putting scum at L-1. There's absolutely no reason to ensure Varsoon was around for a super fast thread lock and for her to say nothing and give no warning if she was really thinking that, and yet that appears to be exactly what she did.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

vote: farside

i hate you guys for making me break my not casting a vote streak

TWIE, what happened with your vig shot last night? Who did you shoot at?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Hey farside what do you want me to do with regards to TWIE? Really? I'm actually sure I'm the only person whose actually directed any commentary or questions to him today. Hell, some people seemed to fucking forget that we were waiting on a vig shot from him last night.

Stop attempting to push this narrative of us just ignoring TWIE while we go after you, because it's patently untrue. There's simply more to talk about with regards to you than there is for TWIE.

You and TWIE are not guaranteed to share an alignment. This is something we discussed yesterday. The arguments for you as scum exist wholly independently of TWIE. The only significance he has with regards to you is in relation to the Beach-a-palooza, and he is not the ONLY way (as Titus originally thought) that you could have spoofed your extra votes in that event, therefore it's not impossible for you to be scum without him as scum. By the same token, if he's scum, it doesn't make you any more or less scummy, it merely weakens an existing defense you could use.

And we have possibilities in mind beyond you, we already said Shiro is a suspect, and you've also seen our suspicions about the gems for a decent portion of the game, there could easily be scum among them (since I'm not particularly inclined to believe they're actualy confirmed to one another as sharing an alignment when asserting that they have such confirmation is something we can't check and which is wholly beneficial to them). Creature we're torn on, there were scummy behaviors on his part earlier in the game, and then some stuff I liked personally, and since then he's sort of been a nonentity, until this discovery that he wasn't foregoing his actions for the cluster. ..but given all the events and stuff we had, I feel like not that many people were actually forgoing their actions anyways, so that's not even the most suspicious thing.

Also, you can't just brush off my previous post by calling it bullshit when it would be EASY to disprove with a quick look at your ISO, if you did what you said you had done.

But you haven't, so all you can do is hope that if you keep repeating that it's bullshit loud enough people will just believe you without checking your facts.

Creature/shadow: is there anything xkfyu said in the pt yesterday/last night that town should know? Any opinions on the game state etc?
MoI/Random: who are the gems top scumspects, as it were?

-Cerb

Pedit@kraska: because she deliberately only put enough votes on snarky to lynch him if he was town.

[Reasonably Rational]

Umm, Varsoon said this in the rules for the game, in the section about stress:

At -4 Stress, or 'Slice of Life,' all town players will require one less vote to lynch (except in LYLO) and the scum factional kill will always succeed--it can not be redirected and effects that would cause it to fail for any reason will not.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

On high stress no difference is made between town and scum, everyone is loved, but low stress just gives town a hated modifier.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

No worries. Do you understand the concern Drixx and I are expressing about her hammer now?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm sorry :') somehow missed the word town

And I checked with the mod, I can't vote enough to make a lynch happen, as I said many moons ago the ability can only be no more the half the vote count.

I'm think kraska should end this event, players can lynch me, and one I flip town rr needs to explain why he didn't believe my claim.
Again he stated day 2 to give points to 3p players, I'm the only person to claim needing points but he calls me nothing more then a liar.
He also kept the Titus tunnel going on with the hypo theory that never got proven and if you read day 4 he still left an opening for twie flip either way.
Creature is for sure not town. He called snarky town day 3 and voted for him day 4 for no reason stated.
My gut says twie isn't scum but I'm not married to that read. I'd say focus on the first 2 scum reads before letting the rabbit hole bs from rr lead this game.

Holy shit.

I just fucking understood what you're talking about. You thought I claimed my role allowed me to give points to someone.

I did not claim that. I have no idea what post you're referring to, but I'm almost positive we were talking about philosophically, how we approach third partis and give them the benefit of the doubt/don't subscribe to the site meta of auto lynching third parties.

Lmao. Every time you said that, I thought you were pissed because we said we're not as quick to lynch third parties as most but we were still suspicious of you in spite of that, when the whole time you actually meant believed we had mechanical reason to believe your claim and couldn't understand why we didn't(which, btw, is untrue, I don't believe either of us ever said we didn't believe your claim(at least certainly not after you displayed your lynchproof)).

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm sorry :') somehow missed the word town

And I checked with the mod, I can't vote enough to make a lynch happen, as I said many moons ago the ability can only be no more the half the vote count.

I'm think kraska should end this event, players can lynch me, and one I flip town rr needs to explain why he didn't believe my claim.
Again he stated day 2 to give points to 3p players, I'm the only person to claim needing points but he calls me nothing more then a liar.
He also kept the Titus tunnel going on with the hypo theory that never got proven and if you read day 4 he still left an opening for twie flip either way.
Creature is for sure not town. He called snarky town day 3 and voted for him day 4 for no reason stated.
My gut says twie isn't scum but I'm not married to that read. I'd say focus on the first 2 scum reads before letting the rabbit hole bs from rr lead this game.

Why would we rush to end the day when TWIE still hasn't shown up and explained the missing vig shot. You have behaved exceptionally scummy and your claim to be town that can win as 3rd party just doesn't hold up at this point. The most likely thing is you are scum who is trying to con us into thinking you're a 3p as a way to explain how super powerful your role is. The con being that you claim town which is an "acceptable" lie in the case where you are actually a 3p on a site where 3p are lynch on site 99.9% of the time.

That said ... TWIE seems content to refuse to answer where his missing kill is and let you take all the focus.

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark, as they say.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Plz use your words kthx.

:p

I'm honestly not sure what point those quotes are supposed to convey.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

That seals it for me. Trying to use a DAY TWO post to call us liars?

It's really fucking easy for anyone to see. You voted Snarky just enough to kill him, and you did so without warning (which is by far the scummier part). In the FIVE MINUTES that elapsed before thread lock, we told Random we wanted to ally with him.

It's amusing that you're so desperate.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm sorry :') somehow missed the word town

And I checked with the mod, I can't vote enough to make a lynch happen, as I said many moons ago the ability can only be no more the half the vote count.

I'm think kraska should end this event, players can lynch me, and one I flip town rr needs to explain why he didn't believe my claim.
Again he stated day 2 to give points to 3p players, I'm the only person to claim needing points but he calls me nothing more then a liar.
He also kept the Titus tunnel going on with the hypo theory that never got proven and if you read day 4 he still left an opening for twie flip either way.
Creature is for sure not town. He called snarky town day 3 and voted for him day 4 for no reason stated.
My gut says twie isn't scum but I'm not married to that read. I'd say focus on the first 2 scum reads before letting the rabbit hole bs from rr lead this game.

Holy shit.

I just fucking understood what you're talking about. You thought I claimed my role allowed me to give points to someone.

I did not claim that. I have no idea what post you're referring to, but I'm almost positive we were talking about philosophically, how we approach third partis and give them the benefit of the doubt/don't subscribe to the site meta of auto lynching third parties.

Lmao. Every time you said that, I thought you were pissed because we said we're not as quick to lynch third parties as most but we were still suspicious of you in spite of that, when the whole time you actually meant believed we had mechanical reason to believe your claim and couldn't understand why we didn't(which, btw, is untrue, I don't believe either of us ever said we didn't believe your claim(at least certainly not after you displayed your lynchproof)).

-Cerb

Fair enough. The xkfyu point can't be properly evaluated without knowing what he claimed to her and what steven has told her about it.

And I was telling you all yesterday that third parties are a thing here. I actually have evidence of at least 2 third party factions in this game, though only one has a pt/is informed at all.

So, were you playing towards a town win con, with the third party thing as an out just in case, or were you playing for the 3p win con the whole time? Is that why you were saying you weren't going to be using your vote power, so you wouldn't use up your points and put yourself further away from your alternative win condition?

@Yume: I said two things about peridot. Not sure which one you're saying is correct, but I did receive separate confirmation about my mechanical suspicions regarding peridot, whic simultaneously disproved my identity theory.

-Cerb

1.) I screwed up my shoulder pretty bad over this past weekend and it's just now bearable to be at the computer for more than a few minutes. I've got like 35 pages to catch up on, but I've got a couple things to say that are super important, after talking with Cerb for the last couple hours.

Please do not end the day until Cerb and I finish checking and making sure what we've concluded is correct. We need to share it with the game today. Please just bear with us. Cerb is tied up for a few hours and we want to be completely sure before we make the post.

2.) We are going to pop our event tonight, barring some change in stress that precludes it, so I'm not sure if we should ally or not. Whomever we ally with can't get the synergy and add 3 points towards the unknown goal as we will not be forgoing the use of our event. We plan to submit Randomidget, but

Random: you should not submit us if you think you can synergize elsewhere

. We would prefer to ally because we have some things we'd rather not say in the main thread but want to leave to someone in case we get killed.

We would appreciate if Mastin and Titus and Farside (specifically) would think about the ally thing and whether it's worth the potential loss of points for us to ally.

~Drixx

P.S. - Yume please check PT. Mastin please look for Yume to be relaying you some info. -- I'll be catching up for awhile while Cerb is busy and I've got something to do in about 3 hours, so it will be pretty late East Coast time before we get our post up.

Please just trust that it's worth waiting. It's important.

FTFY by the way.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Farside, can you please specify EXACTLY what the limits of your vote power are?

Can the additional votes not exceed 1/2 the votes required for a lynch, or can it's votes plus your own not exceed that limit?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

so i was doing the thing yesterday where i drink instead of play this game.

i shot farside

Okay. So why isn't she dead?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

i dunno.

That's underwhelming.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Farside, can you please specify EXACTLY what the limits of your vote power are?

Can the additional votes not exceed 1/2 the votes required for a lynch, or can it's votes plus your own not exceed that limit?

-Cerb

Please answer this question.

I told kraska to end the event.
Anyways, grapes I think 4 to 5 scum reads isn't that bad.
Everyone thinks there is 3 scum left, which means rr math is completely wrong on many levels.

I've never hinted at believing there is any number of scum less than 6 total. As a matter of fact, I've actually expressed suspicion that there may be more.

@SS: who is conftown because of the beach event? As far as I can tell, nobody has been cleared, we just have smaller potential numbers in each pool, because we found scum in the top voters and one in the non voters.

A50: I don't know how I feel about TWIE's response. I don't know why scum!TWIE would make a post like that, and until kraskas confusion about what happened at -4 stress, I wouldn't have thought there was any way ANYONE could have misunderstood the effects of low stress.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR - I'm confused why you're pushing the gems as a second scumteam when we've seen a gem flip benign. Clue a guy in?

What benign gem flip have you seen? Xkfyu killed a member of the scum team, which doesn't make them benign, it makes them want to kill people and means he's not aligned with the scum team, which means nothing without a win condition that's known.

The primary problems with the gems are the constant deceit/anti-town behavior throughout the game, and their sheer power. Yume claimed mastin was conftown, but kept mastin in the dark about things. The gems didn't flip NC early in the day when asked to by Titus and myself, thus putting us into a night phase at -4 stress. The win conditions given by Yume to Titus and myself differed slightly, and the difference they concealed from Drixx and myself wasn't one which would have been worth being concerned about...so why aren't the the claims identical? Why are their win conditions concealed? For the record, the claim Yume gave us was a vague reference to needing "what we said", and said they also needed a human alive, and the win con she gave titus was needing a human and a gem alive. Nothing suspicious about needing a member of your faction alive to win, so why didn't yume claim that to us? It sounds like a detail added because it was weird to NOT need to have a member alive. How much sense, balance wise, does it make for town to have a 4 man masonry that could gain at least a fifth member, all of whose members are EXTREMELY strong roles? The strongest roles in mafia games are frequently hobbled by their swinginess, yet here....they were given knowledge that 20% of the game could be safely ignored by them, making them EVEN STRONGER.

Wholly benign gems simply don't make sense balance wise, in spite of the sense they make flavor wise.

-Cerb

Pedit: fuzzy scum is pretty dang improbable imo.

[Reasonably Rational]

I must have misread the flip or something then.

Cerb can we alliance tonight?

I don't think that would be a problem, though Drixx and I haven't talked about it and I still want a random alliance at some point..:/

Tentative yes?
And yeah, the gems flips have all had their win conditions obscured. :/
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Farside. Read the context of that post. Do you remember the cluster. The event where if anyone chose to not perform actions or activate events, one point would be added towards fighting it, and if both they and their ally chose to forego acting, a total of 3 points would he added instead?

That's what that post is talking about. It's discussing the fact that we were going to activate beachapalooza that night, which meant if we were allying with someone who was going to forego their action, minimum benefit would be gained from it.

The evidence of two third parties I have was because I already knew about both the leftovers and rhe crystal gems. Your claim did not fit in either of those groups so no, nothing you quoted there actually supports the conclusions you've drawn.

And I know you said what your vote power is, but that distinction I just asked about is incredibly important, and it ISN'T made clear in any of your claims. You mention a 1/2 lynch limitation, but not if that limit includes your regular vote as well.

@Random: got it. And that's coming from xk or moi?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Finally RR
Why do you keep asking me about my points if you think I'm scum, fake claiming?

I never said I didn't believe that you had points yout could gain and utilize?

And based on the prior flips? Probably one of the rubies, lol.

Whatever, fuck it. I keep asking because I'm trying to give you a way out of a fucking lie, but you refuse to fucking answer.

You said the person you lynch had to be 1/2 way to kynch for your power to work, but with snarky, I cast 5 out of 8 required votes.

MORE THAN HALF.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Lol, next to llast sentence should clearly be "you cast 5 out of 8", not I.

-Cer

[Reasonably Rational]

Random, what is your guys' win condition?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, everyone, please establish allinces for tonight so we don't have a repeat of today.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Finally RR
Why do you keep asking me about my points if you think I'm scum, fake claiming?

I never said I didn't believe that you had points yout could gain and utilize?

And based on the prior flips? Probably one of the rubies, lol.

Whatever, fuck it. I keep asking because I'm trying to give you a way out of a fucking lie, but you refuse to fucking answer.

You said the person you lynch had to be 1/2 way to kynch for your power to work, but with snarky, I cast 5 out of 8 required votes.

MORE THAN HALF.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Finally RR
Why do you keep asking me about my points if you think I'm scum, fake claiming?

I never said I didn't believe that you had points yout could gain and utilize?

And based on the prior flips? Probably one of the rubies, lol.

Whatever, fuck it. I keep asking because I'm trying to give you a way out of a fucking lie, but you refuse to fucking answer.

You said the person you lynch had to be 1/2 way to kynch for your power to work, but with snarky, I cast 5 out of 8 required votes.

MORE THAN HALF.

-Cerb

That's some vague shit RR.

Which Ruby, why does it make sense.

Come on person who claims he is right about everyone's role, this shouldn't be this hard to keep avoiding.

Also scum reads sir.

Have you ever watched the show? The five rubies are only distinguishable by temperament, gem location, and the visor doc wears. They only appear in 3 episodes (mind you, in a show with 10 minute episodes).

There's nothing particularly special about any of them that would make one more likely than another.

Also read my fucking iso, stop asking fucking questions I've already answered.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

You. Haven't. Looked.
I talked about shiro. I talked about creature. I mentioned my suspicions about the gems.

Wtf more are you looking for?

With regards ti your own question...tell me how you put 5 votes on someone when lynch was at 9, if you can't put more than half

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Farside : Thank you. The "including my own vote " part has never been explicitly stated before, I don't believe. So if you're not on a wagon, you can lynch one the wagon reaches 1/2 lynch rounded down so it will take 3 votes other than your own for you to hammer anyone today.

Everyone : keep this in mind when you're throwing votes around. Lynch can be at 3 votes.
@magna: I didn't bother with a claim on the lynch event because there was nothing to check. If fuzzy is town, he told the truth. If he's scum, he certainly wouldn't risk being caught out by a mass claim like that. I probably SHOULD have looked into it further, but it really wasn't a priority given the relatively small amount of data we could gain.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, and fsrside, you asked another question, about how shiro scum makes sense with you: umm, I don't build out teams when evaluating scumminess. I might create exclusions, as in, if x is scum y is unlikely to be, etc, but beyond that I evaluate slots individually.

What about shiro makes it impossible for you to be scum together?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

yeah my abilities should be pretty obvious pro-town damage control

creature: we're not wasting a lynch on a policy today. especially not after i blew 2 of my abilities so people can vote. vote scum now. that's not farside. i know how much people hate my backwards logic but look at that iso its a fucking chaos, look at that iso and tell me there's a consistent scum agenda throughout...there isnt. it's just self-destructive anti-town mess and lots of tunneling

...

Farside is not policy. Maybe she is for those of you who aren't giving her enough credit, but for Drixx and I she's obviously scum.

Nobody should give ANY fucks about how much power you expended to prevent a no lynch today, it certainly doesn't give you any authority to make decisions for the game. If you wanted that power, you should have held the game hostage today.

I'm curious wtf happened in the last 48 hours where we went from what seemed to be a clear consensus to lynch farside(if those test votes meant anything) to this waffling between farside TWIE and Creature, where we can't even fucking sneeze I'm the direction of anyone who isn't farside out of fear that she's just going to take the decision from us.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Whenever I am lurking, nobody wants to lynch me.

Whenever I am active, people want to lynch me.

For the record, basically every individual I've had an alliance with has wanted to lynch you, you were just never a priority.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Whenever I am lurking, nobody wants to lynch me.

Whenever I am active, people want to lynch me.

For the record, basically every individual I've had an alliance with has wanted to lynch you, you were just never a priority.

-Cerb

And then when I started trying to push the game, everybody had me as top priority.

Sorta what happens when people slot you as scum, and you do nothing to change their mind, then suddenly show up and remind them that you exist. :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Whenever I am lurking, nobody wants to lynch me.

Whenever I am active, people want to lynch me.

For the record, basically every individual I've had an alliance with has wanted to lynch you, you were just never a priority.

-Cerb

And then when I started trying to push the game, everybody had me as top priority.

Sorta what happens when people slot you as scum, and you do nothing to change their mind, then suddenly show up and remind them that you exist. :p

-Cerb

I do this likely every game. If you think it's a scum tell, it's the same as saying one-liners or putting itself in its readslist are scum tells.

I didn't say I was scum reading you for it. I was just telling you why it happened, sorta in the hopes that you'll remember this in the future and not take it to mean you should just be quiet all game. Honest advice, regardless of alignment.

Anyways.

VOTE: Farside22
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

More info from Not Chara since I am now Chara’s personal delivery Gem …

General

– Chara absolutely wants TWIE to be the lynch today for doing no scum-hunting but being here to whine like a child.

@RR

– Beach event proves there are several scum in the “Non-Voters” do not lynch farside, lynch in the Non-Voters even if you think farside is scum. This is directly to you from Chara.

@kraska

– Chara gives you a “thumbs up” from “mom Maheswaran”.

@NC: there are 4 slots among the voters(if we exclude conftown and gems), who have one scum among them, and the rest will be confirmed as town once we find the scum in that group. I'm VERY sure that scum is Farside22, and would much prefer to create 3 more conftown today, than 1)create this same situation tomorrow, if we hit scum outside of the voters, or 2) mislynch+change that pool to a 50/50.

Oh and we'll also be able to fucking pressure peope.being without being concerned that farside's just going to decide to show up and hammer from l-4.


-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Pregame: Blog post and allied with Snarky.

Night 1: Blog post and tried to ally with Shiro.
Night 2: Blog post and allied with SnarkySnowman.
Night 3: Investigated randomidget, blog post and allied with Shadow_step and Xkfyu.
Night 4: Blog post and tried to ally with grapes.

No, I allied with randomidget on Pregame but the alliance was open during Day 1 and Night 1.

But wait ... before you said Snarky was your Day 1 and Night 1 alliance ...

Bolded for everyone to see.

So what you're saying is that we're well into LAL territory here?

I'm personally willing to compromise. Creature has been in my scum pool for days (A50 can attest; I left reads with him on the assumption we might be killed before the finale). You're eviscerating him in real time.

But umm... I've made a rock solid case against Farside based upon her actions, the setup and she has lied enough times that if I quoted every lie and took the time to point out why it is a lie, it would be the longest post I've ever made in any mafia game ever. And that's saying a LOT.

So why are you opposed to lynching a slot that is dripping and oozing scumminess, could very easily be one of the leftovers and joined scum (similar to how the gems gained a leftover) after the beach-a-palooza, who has and can unilaterally end the day if we're the slightest bit careless, who has shown zero town motivation whatsoever, and has lied way more than Creature?

Show us what you see that we must be missing, because our standard for what it takes to conclude someone is scum is pretty freaking high (we can show you the effort we put into it in prior games so you can see if you don't know already) and we're sure. Us being sure means we've gone back through things with the intentionally opposite point of view and looked for any evidence we're wrong. There's just nothing there man. Seriously ... show us becuase I'm getting tired of having a pissing match with you.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

@NC: there are 4 slots among the voters(if we exclude conftown and gems),

who have one scum among them, and the rest will be confirmed as town once we find the scum in that group

. I'm VERY sure that scum is Farside22, and would much prefer to create 3 more conftown today, than 1)create this same situation tomorrow, if we hit scum outside of the voters, or 2) mislynch+change that pool to a 50/50.

You do understand that the bolded can't possibly be true, right?

Because farside as scum requires two more scum partners to silently vote for her. And we already know Skybird requires 1 scum. Which means that a minimum of 3 scum have to be in the "not voting Mastin, Not Chara, or Titus" piles. DGB is only one vote and can only work if she linked up with scum before the Beach-a-palooaz. So there MUST be 2 scum minimum in the "unconfirmed" voters for your Farside as scum scenario to work.

Which is why the bolded isn't true.

Again - super analytical, better than everyone else RR should have parsed that.

No, there doesn't have to be 2. We know that there were multiple "leftovers" because Varsoon doesn't make mistakes. That phrase "the leftovers" was plural for a reason. One of them joined the gems right? Where are the other(s)? All we need to posit for Farside to be scum is that she was a Leftover who joined scum after beach-a-palooza, and that's not even a stretch at all. It also happens to explain why she would push Not Chara to have them both vote NC, and push the idea that it made them both "conftown". If she knew she was joining scum, she accomplished a ton with that move. She obfuscated the shit out of the voting results and blunted our event's PoE value but a ton, and now you're sitting here saying she requires two unknown scum to be scum when that isn't so.

Farside isn't dumb or bad.

As I said in the last post I made: please show me what we missed, because we spent a considerable amount of time looking at it from both angles, and the preponderance of evidence for scum!farside is massive while there was nothing we saw that is evidence for town!farside.

~Drixx

P.S. - Cerberus is the one who thinks he's better than everyone else, and openly admits it. I'm open to the idea that I make mistakes, because I make them all the time. Just responding to your dig that you threw in that last line.

[Reasonably Rational]

There's no scum flavor for Keep Beach City Weird Blog, I'm pratically conftown;

Skybird was confirmed Town for Connie flavor.

Oops ...

your blog post certainly can be a scum ability that aligns with your fake-claim. You know, just like Varsoon said that he built the scum roles to match their fake-claims ...

Why no mention of the fact your 1/4 result can't be true regardless of who it is on since Almost says it matches 3/4 and Random matches 2/4?

One only needed to look at Steven Universe to see that assuming someone with Day 1 access to Steven was town. Several, including us, pointed that out. Don't straw man ... it undercuts your credibility.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Creature can you please summarize your claim? You said you could investigate the gems in some way? Have you? What did you find out? If you haven't, what WOULD you find out?

@MoI - What would he need to be able to say about you guys to convince you? (Think about it because I see no reason why scum would have any need to investigate the gems whereas there are big question marks for us, which every time we bring up causes you to subtly OMGUS us).

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

As to Farside - If you are suggesting that Farside is a leftover who joined the Mafia AFTER Beach-a-palooza I need you to reconcile who else is scum. Because that means during BAPA farside was not scum and thus Not Chara is confirmed Town and keeping her from being flipped (which you yelled over and over about) is Pro-Town for reasons I know you know.

It's a possible answer to her being scum that doesn't require us to assume an absurdly large scum team. I'm pretty certain Not Chara had to be confirmed town from the second the BAP vote results came out. Since we don't know the parameters of you guys keeping someone unflipped (how long you can do so, whether you can bring it back as you did with Firebringer, etc...), then no I'm not sure why it's more pro-town to keep it unflipped than to bring it back.

Also, I think you're missing the forest for the trees. We have a finite amount of currencies to win the game with. X mislynches, Y role related powers, Z events, etc... and the question yesterday was what should get used to take stress away from -4. Unfortunately, Farside unilaterally ended the day (and obviously made sure Varsoon was around, because it took literally sometime between 4 minutes and 4 minutes and 59 seconds for the thread to lock) and stress didn't move. Fortunately, that preserved Kraska's ability to adjust stress and canceled out a scum event. At the time; however, we had no way to know, and both Cerb and I felt like it made sense to use the least amount of currency to get away from -4 stress.

Now that might not be the case from your viewpoint, because you are informed completely about how the hidden flips and return to game and such works. We aren't.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

One only needed to look at Steven Universe to see that assuming someone with Day 1 access to Steven was town. Several, including us, pointed that out. Don't straw man ... it undercuts your credibility.

~Drixx

You are missing the point. If Connie-fake claim can actually be scum (which you point out that people bought) then why does Creature think his blog whatever confirms him as town and couldn't just as easily be a scum ability that matches his fake-claim?

Seriously - stay on point with the actual salient information.

The blog doesn't at all clear him. That doesn't change what you did from being a straw man attack.

The question I have is this:

WHY would scum be given an ability to find out the nature of the gems, as Creature has claimed? He claims you would be notified he found out.

-- The only reason the scum would need a reason to find out the nature of the gems is if they are somehow compatible.

So ummm ... if Creature is left alive and does his thing, he can both inform the town that you have told the truth (presuming you have), and you will have hard evidence that he had the ability to learn the nature of your faction. So if you don't believe scum would have that ability, the obvious course is to force him to do it, right?

[Reasonably Rational]

If Connie-fake claim can actually be scum (which you point out that people bought) then why does Creature think his blog whatever confirms him as town and couldn't just as easily be a scum ability that matches his fake-claim?

Same can be said about Titus confirming herself as town could easily be a scum ability that matches her fakeclaim.

This is a really fucking bad post Creature. Holy shit.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Okay, then push that stress to 3+

Who will actually want to put stress at 3+?

What a convenient excuse. The problem is that you had an entire Climax phase (3rd episode) at +3 and could have done it already. Why didn't you?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

MoI: how can you conclude I'm wrong when I did not fully define the set of players I was talking about(which I didn't do for very good reason)?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

One only needed to look at Steven Universe to see that assuming someone with Day 1 access to Steven was town. Several, including us, pointed that out. Don't straw man ... it undercuts your credibility.

~Drixx

You are missing the point. If Connie-fake claim can actually be scum (which you point out that people bought) then why does Creature think his blog whatever confirms him as town and couldn't just as easily be a scum ability that matches his fake-claim?

Seriously - stay on point with the actual salient information.

The blog doesn't at all clear him. That doesn't change what you did from being a straw man attack.

The question I have is this:

WHY would scum be given an ability to find out the nature of the gems, as Creature has claimed? He claims you would be notified he found out.

-- The only reason the scum would need a reason to find out the nature of the gems is if they are somehow compatible.

So ummm ... if Creature is left alive and does his thing, he can both inform the town that you have told the truth (presuming you have), and you will have hard evidence that he had the ability to learn the nature of your faction. So if you don't believe scum would have that ability, the obvious course is to force him to do it, right?

Oh look rr said he has a scum read but uses why would the mod give info to scum like that to let creature fly by.

Yet rr thinks so little of Varsoon to think he would tell players the name of a player that rb you and that player is scum.

Yup, nothing scummy about rr continue tunneling, right grapes?

You need to fucking stop it Farside. You've spent this entire game pretending that you are stupid and incapable of understanding nuance, temporal order, causality, or even basic reasoning. You're not stupid and I know you understand all of those things and yet you've spent literally the entire game pretending you didn't. At one point you were

CERTAIN

that Titus was scum and you shit on this game for 50 pages with her, and you are now trying to do the same thing with us. It would take me HOURS to go through this thread and quote every time you lied, pretended you didn't understand temporal order, pretended you didn't understand how and why a read changed, etc... You never address any of the points in the case against you because you know we have you nailed. You just constantly try to throw shade on us by manipulation and cherry picking, same as you did to Titus.

Reality is that things happen in a specific order. Creature has been in my pool of possible scum as far back as day 3. That pool is larger than the amount of scum could possibly be. That means more work is needed. I can view someone's posts as scummy (and Creature has posted a few dandies today) and also see the other side of the coin. That's how you're supposed to play the game. I know you have a hard time with the whole "I need to consider both possibilities" thing, but just follow me here.

The only way a member of the scum team would be given an ability to investigate the "nature" of the gems (presumably this means wincon, but Creature hasn't elaborated) is if the scum team and crystal gems are somehow compatible. While that exists in the

possibility space

, it has such a low probability, imo, as to be not even worth seriously considering. That means that if Creature can PROVE he's telling the truth about that, then Magna would KNOW that Creature has that ability, and then the probability of him being scum goes down so far that he goes on the "consider only in M/LYLO" pile.

But Creature already had a chance to use that ability and didn't do so, and his excuse for not doing so is underwhelming, at best.

You're not stupid, and when you continue to pretend to be stupid to try and throw shade on us, it just makes you look worse. Stop with the shitposting. This is the last time I'll be responding to a post where you play dumb and pretend you don't understand nuance and that you can't see we're actually trying to figure Creature out rather than deciding ahead of time and trying to justify that choice. If you want to pretend you are stupid, then have fun talking to yourself. Otherwise start being intellectually honest because, at this point, if you flip town I will consider you to have intentionally tried to throw the game, given your play.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Not really feeling a creature lynch tbh.

The scum triggered an event where they gained an extra kill if a scum lynch happened today. This is weak evidence that the scum team expected to lose a member today. Looking at just that, the lynch pool for today should be {TWIE, Farside} as those were the top suspects of Titus and Mastin, plus Titus dying along with how Farside unilaterally and scummily ended the day yesterday was going to put her squarely in the crosshairs. I can't give you much of a case on TWIE because he hasn't posted a whole lot. That could go either way though because he tends to be a late game player. In my reads list to A50 I instructed him to relay our wish that TWIE be put under heavy pressure if he didn't start looking like he was invested and gamesolving by day 6.

I don't know what to make of his claim that he vigged Farside but she didn't die, and he doesn't seem the least bit interested in explaining it. Farside, on the other hand, opened the day demanding whomever had targeted her to claim. TWIE is the only person to have claimed to target her ... but it was with a kill. I'm pretty sure ascetic doesn't block kills? But then Farside said in post #9618 that she is "ascentic" (immune) from all action except being shot by scum. If Scum!Farside, then that post is just window dressing. If Farside is actually 3P, that sort of makes sense. Town!Farside is a miniscule possibility at this point and would require her to have intentionally game thrown, and I just don't see that being realistic.

So Grapes ... if Creature hasn't stuck his head in the noose far enough for you (for me the fact that he could have investigated the gems and didn't do so is kind of the clincher), penny for your thoughts?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Not really feeling a creature lynch tbh.

Do you think he's telling the truth about being able to investigate the "true nature" of the crystal gems?

If so, what implications do you draw from that?

I'm on the fence about it. He could have already done it and didn't. It's confusing why he didn't tell the game right away as well. It took us a LOT of posts that leaked the fact that there was communication going on between parties in some unclaimed PT and then some other information to realize there was an actual separate faction for the gems, and he started the game with enough info to know that, if he's telling the truth. So part of me wants to leave him alive and hope stress raises and hope he's telling the truth and can clear up the questions ... but another part of me feels like the claim is specifically designed to appeal to the fact that Cerb and I are suspicious that the Crystal Gems faction has been hiding something from us (reinforced by the fact that MoI only chooses to come after us when we are actively talking about the gems and drops us out of his posts when we drop it).

What do YOU think though Grapes?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

One only needed to look at Steven Universe to see that assuming someone with Day 1 access to Steven was town. Several, including us, pointed that out. Don't straw man ... it undercuts your credibility.

~Drixx

You are missing the point. If Connie-fake claim can actually be scum (which you point out that people bought) then why does Creature think his blog whatever confirms him as town and couldn't just as easily be a scum ability that matches his fake-claim?

Seriously - stay on point with the actual salient information.

The blog doesn't at all clear him. That doesn't change what you did from being a straw man attack.

The question I have is this:

WHY would scum be given an ability to find out the nature of the gems, as Creature has claimed? He claims you would be notified he found out.

-- The only reason the scum would need a reason to find out the nature of the gems is if they are somehow compatible.

So ummm ... if Creature is left alive and does his thing, he can both inform the town that you have told the truth (presuming you have), and you will have hard evidence that he had the ability to learn the nature of your faction. So if you don't believe scum would have that ability, the obvious course is to force him to do it, right?

Oh look rr said he has a scum read but uses why would the mod give info to scum like that to let creature fly by.

Yet rr thinks so little of Varsoon to think he would tell players the name of a player that rb you and that player is scum.

Yup, nothing scummy about rr continue tunneling, right grapes?

You need to fucking stop it Farside. You've spent this entire game pretending that you are stupid and incapable of understanding nuance, temporal order, causality, or even basic reasoning. You're not stupid and I know you understand all of those things and yet you've spent literally the entire game pretending you didn't. At one point you were

CERTAIN

that Titus was scum and you shit on this game for 50 pages with her, and you are now trying to do the same thing with us. It would take me HOURS to go through this thread and quote every time you lied, pretended you didn't understand temporal order, pretended you didn't understand how and why a read changed, etc... You never address any of the points in the case against you because you know we have you nailed. You just constantly try to throw shade on us by manipulation and cherry picking, same as you did to Titus.

Reality is that things happen in a specific order. Creature has been in my pool of possible scum as far back as day 3. That pool is larger than the amount of scum could possibly be. That means more work is needed. I can view someone's posts as scummy (and Creature has posted a few dandies today) and also see the other side of the coin. That's how you're supposed to play the game. I know you have a hard time with the whole "I need to consider both possibilities" thing, but just follow me here.

The only way a member of the scum team would be given an ability to investigate the "nature" of the gems (presumably this means wincon, but Creature hasn't elaborated) is if the scum team and crystal gems are somehow compatible. While that exists in the

possibility space

, it has such a low probability, imo, as to be not even worth seriously considering. That means that if Creature can PROVE he's telling the truth about that, then Magna would KNOW that Creature has that ability, and then the probability of him being scum goes down so far that he goes on the "consider only in M/LYLO" pile.

But Creature already had a chance to use that ability and didn't do so, and his excuse for not doing so is underwhelming, at best.

You're not stupid, and when you continue to pretend to be stupid to try and throw shade on us, it just makes you look worse. Stop with the shitposting. This is the last time I'll be responding to a post where you play dumb and pretend you don't understand nuance and that you can't see we're actually trying to figure Creature out rather than deciding ahead of time and trying to justify that choice. If you want to pretend you are stupid, then have fun talking to yourself. Otherwise start being intellectually honest because, at this point, if you flip town I will consider you to have intentionally tried to throw the game, given your play.

~Drixx

No where in the post I quoted are you figuring creature out.
You are giving him a free pass.
Plain and simple.

Wrong. Again. I'll leave you to figure it out. Try to do some game solving instead of slinging mud to try and desperately avoid the rope.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Whatever you say scummy butt.

In other words, you give up?

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

TWIE is at a virtual l-1 just so anyone who cares knows.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

That's mainly directed at you mastin2. The other two voting TWIE are the people we'd lynch instead of him, so I wouldn't expect them to csre. :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Not Chara's preference for lynch today is TWIE, Shiro and Creature in approximately that order.

Honestly the main reason I've been clearing Shiro is because I'm trusting Almost50 here.

A50s (flavor based) reason for clearing shiro was wrong. Idk how he feels about him now.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Mastin. I am absolutely convinced that Farside is scum. I laid out the case and she has refused at any time to engage with it or to engage with any meaningful game solving. She just shitposts against whomever is pushing her and literally does nothing else.

We need to work together to get this done. Pick an order. If you want Kraska first, then let's do it. I think Kraska makes way more sense as town given her play yesterday and today and given the abilities she had and used to save us from being stuck with a no lynch today; however, I've been mechanically fooled before (See: Steven Universe). If you're sure, then step up and let's do it because you're the only conftown as far as we're concerned.

Also: I know you have a mind for setups. You should really re-consider blindly believing that the gems are "town" because you know for a fact that they are a separate alignment and you know that their win condition is hidden. You also now have a claim that tells you someone can investigate to find out more about them. Furthermore, if you have been paying attention you should have already concluded that if the gems really are basically just town with another label, then we started the game with at least SEVEN slots who weren't ever going to be mislynch candidates, which is absurd.

Take what you know and evaluate it from a mechanical setup perspective. I don't particularly care if you end up in the same place as we have ... just that you re-evaluate your "Gems = town" stance, because I think you've just been holding onto it since the beginning and there's a pile of reasons that contradict it.

And before someone takes umbridge: I'm not saying the gems are scum. I

am

saying that what we KNOW and what they've told us don't add up.

~Drixx

P.S. - One of the things Titus wanted most was for us to get you involved and to get you to shake up and re-evaluate. What good are you as conftown if you won't lead? We could really use your help. Please just think about things. Also I just want to make sure: if we were to ally, you can't talk to us but we could talk to you? So we could just infodump to you? If that is the case, is that something you're open to? We've got some info I'm almost certain you don't because you're saying things you wouldn't say if you did.

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm going to continue hunting for those who are scumbags by role, not play.

Same question I posed to MoI earlier: What rational reason is there to arrive at the conclusion that Farside is town?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Almost, what's your opinion on making farside22 use her extra votes on TWIE?

Would you like me to use it on you?

Funny enough Random is talking about controlling a player, but I used the ability once and he's as useless as a 3rd tit is on me this game.
If I could hot prod players to do something more and had that ability I'd be a happy person playing this game.

RR, it might be better to go for someone else today. I'm not 100% on exactly farside's alignment ( i dont think they are town) and it could be useful to get some more info there.

Im not sure what you're saying in this post? Is the quoted post a reason to NOT go after farside, or are you suggesting we SHOULD go after her?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Grapes, your post is unbearable to respond to on mobile. :/ this is going to be very lazy and quick because it's fucking irritating to have to keep scrolling back up to your post to figure out what post you're talking about and what you said and respond.

Re: fuzzy/snarky: fuzzy claimed the event, snarkys death would have had no connection to fuzzy, so no reason to not do it(other than a fear of an eventual event claim possibly, but that fear isn't worth not getting a free kill imo), the last line about drawing heat is because snarky was the perfect distraction from scum, so if fuzzy were scum and his teammates were likely to be lynched without the distraction of snarky, he might leave him alive.

Re: her vote. The argument that she wouldn't care doesn't hold man. I could see putting him at 7 votes, thst is, l-1 if he was town, but just voting so he ONLY lives if he's scum? Doesn't make any sense to me..she wouldn't have squashed him like a pancake if he had been scum.

Re: what is needed for her to be groupscum: it's not a lot? All it takes is dgb allying with scum D3 or earlier. That is the ONLY requirement (ignoring any speculation that she joined the scum team after). If I knew 100% that she wasn't group scum AND she was vanillaized, I would be okay letting her live.

I don't think any of your other comments require a response? If I missed something let me know.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

VOTE: TWIE

Bah whatever, that's taking too long

Nice job, now we get to watchfarside hammer someone she didn't believe was scum at day start, before alliances are figured out again.

Well done.

Anyone else notice how the entire wagon on twie is people who would otherwise be lynched today (with the exception of mastin)?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

It's not even fluff though.

Why would i include rr as town?

She said that.

No I didnt.

You claim you can become a third party. Kevin doesn't make sense for the third party that is in existance.

I have nothing to do with the gems.
I've said that multiple times as well.

And RR lies one more time and I will vote him till he is dead.

What did I lie about this time? You saying at day start that you didn't think TWIE was likely scum?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm sorry :') somehow missed the word town

And I checked with the mod, I can't vote enough to make a lynch happen, as I said many moons ago the ability can only be no more the half the vote count.

I'm think kraska should end this event, players can lynch me, and one I flip town rr needs to explain why he didn't believe my claim.
Again he stated day 2 to give points to 3p players, I'm the only person to claim needing points but he calls me nothing more then a liar.
He also kept the Titus tunnel going on with the hypo theory that never got proven and if you read day 4 he still left an opening for twie flip either way.
Creature is for sure not town. He called snarky town day 3 and voted for him day 4 for no reason stated.

My gut says twie isn't scum but I'm not married to that read.

I'd say focus on the first 2 scum reads before letting the rabbit hole bs from rr lead this game.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@MoI: the pool I'm talking about should be super simple. Look at your own analysis, remove the gems and conftown from.the voters, remove grapes because he's likely town because of the whole him being shot at N1 which fits with the no kill on N1 and your knowledge of NCs claimed role, and you end up with 4 slots, only one of whom can be scum, unless the game has at least 7 scum.

And yeah, I'm obviouslu not cleared by beach-a-palooza, no idea what creature is going on about with that.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

It's not even fluff though.

Why would i include rr as town?

She said that.

No I didnt.

You claim you can become a third party. Kevin doesn't make sense for the third party that is in existance.

I have nothing to do with the gems.
I've said that multiple times as well.

And RR lies one more time and I will vote him till he is dead.

What did I lie about this time? You saying at day start that you didn't think TWIE was likely scum?

-Cerb

Your using that as fear mongering considering that at least 4 times I've stated his comments make no sense reading the OP.
But sure you can ignore that if you want to make things sound scummy to everyone about me.

I know you've said stuff since then, sure. I'm simply repeating your positions in the past.

And how is it fear mongering? I'll freely agree to fear mongering with regards to you quickhammering anyone you please, because it already happened once and im fucking sick of people in games wirh known multivotinf mechanics dumping vote all over the place in the day phase, but pointng out your previous "least likely among all my suspects" position regarding TWIE isn't fear mongering at all.

@Creature: obviously A50, myself, farside, and kraska. One scum flip in this group=3 conftown, unless there are 7+scum.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

idk, lynching inside that looks risky and scum could be all elsewhere.

Normally I would agree with you regarding risk( See Space Dandy 2 and my constant fights against lynching within the pool of what could be conftown), but unlike previous situations, farside is obviously fucking scum. AND at some point we will absolutely have to lynch in that pool.

Even if, by some ridiculous turn of events, I'm somehow wrong, the game state with farside alive is terrible. We can't scumhunt properly, we can't apply pressure, we can't use our votes (not that I do so much, but it's fucking exhausting keeping people from just voting without thinking about it) without opening up hammers from very low vote counts.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, and farside, your tunneling accusation: guilty at the moment, because I don't have a desk and simply don't have the ability to comfortably go through anyone else's ISO's, and have a huge stack of evidence against you.

Would someone care to explain how/why EVERYONE except mastin and shadow cast their test vote against farside, yet now that we can actually vote, everyone is unwilling to lynch her?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Creature: obviously A50, myself, farside, and kraska. One scum flip in this group=3 conftown, unless there are 7+scum.

-Cerb

Scratch my previous post just saw this one.

1. Why did you "keep it a secret"?
2. Why do you think we are lynching in this group for PoE when I already read Almost and kraska as Town for other reasons and have already said I don't think farside makes any sense as scum or a Leftover that can join scum?

I won't be answering 1. Regarding 2, why the fuck should I care what your opinions are again? Your reasons are shit, and worthless imo,.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also ir wasn't a secret. :p you're all just really fucking lazy.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I won't be answering 1. Regarding 2, why the fuck should I care what your opinions are again? Your reasons are shit, and worthless imo,.

-Cerb

@Almost

- see this is exactly why our discussion on why you are reading RR as Town falls flat for me. Because everything I see in the thread is not "Trying to solve the game" it's trying to strong-arm the game with questionable logic and posts like this.

What exactly is questionable here? No point you've raised with regards to individuals in that pool excludes them from consideration as suspects imo, and you somehow think that because you suggested we lynch in another pool, one which will likely require 2 scum flips to conftown the remainder of the pool, town should just meekly agree with your plan?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

^^ I mean, I could have answered you in a "nice" way, but I'm rather over being nice to you, particularly when you insist on attacking Drixx and myself personally for no reason. You don't even know us. You constantly throw snide comments into every post you make that references us.

What, exactly, is your problem with us, because it's clearly not based on actual game play here.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

(Other than our refusal to ignore the myriad reasons to not just blindly trust the gems, that is).

-Cerb

Pedit: magna, Titus claimed your entire role to shiro and myself. We've seen 3 gem flips. Weve seen a bunch of town power.

How can you possibly discount ANY degree of power on the part of the scum team?

[Reasonably Rational]

It's not even fluff though.

Why would i include rr as town?

She said that.

No I didnt.

You claim you can become a third party. Kevin doesn't make sense for the third party that is in existance.

I have nothing to do with the gems.
I've said that multiple times as well.

And RR lies one more time and I will vote him till he is dead.

What did I lie about this time? You saying at day start that you didn't think TWIE was likely scum?

-Cerb

Your using that as fear mongering considering that at least 4 times I've stated his comments make no sense reading the OP.
But sure you can ignore that if you want to make things sound scummy to everyone about me.

I know you've said stuff since then, sure. I'm simply repeating your positions in the past.

And how is it fear mongering? I'll freely agree to fear mongering with regards to you quickhammering anyone you please, because it already happened once and im fucking sick of people in games wirh known multivotinf mechanics dumping vote all over the place in the day phase, but pointng out your previous "least likely among all my suspects" position regarding TWIE isn't fear mongering at all.

@Creature: obviously A50, myself, farside, and kraska. One scum flip in this group=3 conftown, unless there are 7+scum.

-Cerb

Says the player who demanded on day 3 I should pile as much as I can on a player for votes, then bitched when it happened.
These double standards really are awful.

No farside.

I suggested the town declare intent to vote someone, and then when the threshold was reached, you hammer them. I wanted town in complete control, along with a full voting history, while simultaneously forcing you to expend your points so as to minimize the threat you could be in the late game and thus make you play towards your claimed town win condition, rather than your third party one.

I did not want you to unilaterally decide to lynch people once they they reached 1/2 lynch -1.

@Magna: you haven't actually outlined any such flaws though? All you do is take umbrage when we suggest the gems shouldn't be blindly trusted, and then fail to understand the positions we're taking, such as trying to argue that keeping a dead conftown communicating with the game, comments filtered by you, was more important than KEEPING SCUM FROM KILLING ANOTHER.

...

Then you proceed to suggest that we lynch in a pool which, yes has approximately a 40% chance of containing scum, compared to the 25% of my proposed pool...but my pool(AND suggested lynch) establish conftown with a single scum flip, and restores to us the ability to discuss and play normally without being on the verge of a hammer constantly.

For example, assuming scum kill someone tonight, if ANY alliance chooses to both vote the same slot, farside can hammer them immediately. I'm not going to just sit around and let us keep playing in an environment like that. Hell, if she was conftown, I would strongly consider lynching her on principle(which would be a policy lynch at that point). With all the evidence showing she's likely scum? Easy choice.

-Cerb

Pedit: stop comparing this to bloodborne. The situation is WILDLY different. Nahdia's role could hammer BY ITSELF, WITH NOBODY ELSE VOTING. Farside will always require at least 2 other votes being placed, or one other individual with a double vote and expends a resource when she votes, and has NO control over gaining that resource. One of the double voting slots thst could have assisted ber, DGB, could not coordinate with her without disabling her powers, or of course happening to link up with another scum slot, thus it would take at least 3 slots coordinating for a quick hammer to occur a la Bloodborne.

It's a FAR weaker role than Nahdias.

[Reasonably Rational]

The thing I find funny is certain players are calling me scum but believe my claim about points.
Or how my vote works.
Someone can tell me how that makes sense.

Because the details dont matter.Yes, the vote thing might function differently (perhaps it's limited shots, or perhaps the maximum number of votes is higher),but we DO know that you were able to provide 5/8 votes for a lynch yesterday, so we have to assume that, going forward, you'll be able to provide AT LEAST 1/2 lynch rounded down plus one votes towards any lynch until we hit lylo.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh and there's also no reason to assume you're lying when everything you've claimed that is testable has been tested and proven correct/corroborated by someone else. Making up stuff about your role just puts you at risk of getting caught by a slot with powers like what Creature has claimed.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh and there's also no reason to assume you're lying when everything you've claimed that is testable has been tested and proven correct/corroborated by someone else. Making up stuff about your role just puts you at risk of getting caught by a slot with powers like what Creature has claimed.

-Cerb

Who's been caught lying.

Who you have on your scum list.


This is a joke right?
Because I can't see any town worth there salt believing players they are scum reading, one who has been caught lying.

...

Farside, please tell me you aren't this obtuse.

Note I said a slot with powers LIKE what he claimed. As in, any sort of role investigating slot. Neither expressing belief or disbelief in his claim, but instead saying WHY I have no problem accepting thst your role functions as you expressed while still believing you're scum.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Honestly, the whole "joined after event" scenario is ridiculous to this head. I prefer the much simpler explanation that dgb connected with skybird or farside on D2, or TWIE on D3, and coordinated with the rest of the team, since the beachapalooza event was being discussed as early as D2/it was known it was going to happen.

The percentages I'm giving are really simple to understand. The general assumption seems to be 6 scum (except from grapes, who expects less). 1 was dead before beachapalooza. Beachapalooza votes worked out EXACTLY as they would have if every slot involved had been town and claimed honestly. Therefore, for every scum who claimed to vote for one of the top vote getters (if said vote getter wasn't their ally), 1 scum had to claim to vote for no one/someone who didn't get enough votes.

This means it is IMPOSSIBLE for there to be more scum within the pool of those who voted, than outside of it. Thus if there is scum in the voter pool, there is 1 there, and 2 outside of that pool. It is not impossible for there to be 3 scum outside of the pool, but I view that as highly unlikely, because there's no reason for scum to simply give up most of their ability to influence who received the reward.

At 5 scum total, farside can't be scum, and it's either 1/1 within the pools excluding her, or 0/2. With 7 scum, it's 1/3 instead of 1/2, or 2/2 if she isn't scum. At 8 scum, it's 1/4, or 2/3. The 8 is extremely improbable. The 7, not so much.

There has been no opportunity for a quick hammer to happen today (per the restrictions claimed by farside ) other than during a 10 minute or so window when creature was voting TWIE.

And again, I freely admit to fearmongering, because you're all fucking idiots if you don't understand why an uncontrollable multivoter of unknown alignment CAN NOT BE IGNORED.

You say my fear is that she makes it easier to lynch scum towards lylo? Perhaps you forget that the majority of the game IS TOWN. Even if she were town, it will ALWAYS be more likely that she will enable a lynch on town, rather than one on scum.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Actually, you know what, fuck it. I'm sick of this arguing, and I'm at work and too busy to actually waste time on this.

TWIE and Creature are the compromise lynches. I'll support either ones lynch, on the condition that farside waste the maximum number of points on whoever we lynch over each of the next couple days (including today), after establishing for certain who two agrees should be lynched.

So yeah, state intent,well keep traxk, when one of them hits 7 votes well vote enough to enable farside's multivoter and she hammers them.

Any objections?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@MoI: we already stated that creature has been one of our scumspects since like D3 (maybe even earlier, but not sure if I'm conflating our suspicions of him for Titus' in our D1 alliance.

His posting and contradictions today have him as exactly as likely to be scum as farside for me. Farside is prefetable because she represents a much greater threat from abilities she's displayed.

@TWIE: soccer spirits was shit. Poorly balanced crap game, town mislynched what, twice, and had town vigs hit scum twice, and STILL lost? Yeah. Imbalanced game, nobody should ever talk about it again. You should, however, talk about THIS game instead of getting into this argument nobody cares about with MoI.

MoI: did I miss something about xks event that allowed him to use it more than once?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@MoI: we already stated that creature has been one of our scumspects since like D3 (maybe even earlier, but not sure if I'm conflating our suspicions of him for Titus' in our D1 alliance.

His posting and contradictions today have him as exactly as likely to be scum as farside for me. Farside is prefetable because she represents a much greater threat from abilities she's displayed.

Great. Why aren’t you voting for him them given you’ve said today should be TWIE versus Creature?

The only person I will vote for without a consensus reached and alliances established is farside22, because any vote placed anywhere else is 1/3rd of what's needed for a lynch in the current game state.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, MoI, today should NOT be TWIE versus creature. It should be farside. Period. It coming to creature /twie is a result of your foolishness and stubbornness. There SHOULD be 5 votes on farside right now, the three already there and two from yourself and random.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Creature, why aren't you voting farside?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Same question to you random.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Grapes asked to ally with me a good while ago.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Almost, let's ally.

I have been betrayed.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Varsoon, VC please? We stole your page top, but a vc would be nice...

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

TFL triggering his power the way he did was antitown, yes...but him choosing to not execute a town slot when there would have been no repercussions towards him for doing so is a strong argument against him as scum.

No such mitigating circumstances exist for Farside. She took the kill on town, rather than passing by on it (and unlike D3, she didn't have a shot of lynchproof to give her reason to not take the shot).

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

At this point, by the way, I feel I can give an actual readslist.
grapes
farside22
Almost50
MagnaofIllusion
randomidget
Reasonably Rational
TheFuzzylogic99
Shadow_Step
TheWayItEnds
Creature
Shiro
Kraskaeaque

More or less.
TWIE is a lesser scumread than Shiro, though he and Creature may or may not be in the right order. (They're pretty equal.) He's my top lynch candidate, but he's not my top scumread. See also: we get good info if he's town (clearing two players) and lynch scum if he's scum.

Can you explain grapes, without assuming TWIE is town and thus the claim that skybirds action claim is guaranteed to be true is correct?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

What rational reason is there to arrive at the conclusion that Farside is town?

Aside from the Beachapalooza event? Which, by the way, should be evidence enough.

I have already explained this.

I see no scum motivation in farside's actions whatsoever.

I see motivation from farside's actions which make a ton of sense coming from the viewpoint of a player with her role and with her personality.
If farside is scum, that would require an

epic

level of manipulation on her part to maintain. Any crack where scum motive could show would instantly end her, yet I've seen none. Believe me! I've looked. But I don't see her doing what she has done as scum. All I see is circumstantial evidence which is more hearsay than actual proof of anything. "She did this, then scum did this, that can't be coincidence". That about sums up the case against farside.

But I'm sorry.
That's not something which will convince me.

A lot of the reasons for lynching farside are fearmongering. "What if". A lot of the reasons for lynching farside feel like policy. "She's proven a bad track record with these actions, who's to say she'll get any better?" A lot of the reasons for lynching farside feel like they are lynching a player for objectively bad play, ignoring subjectively whether that play makes more sense coming from town or from scum and the answer for me overwhelmingly is more sense from town.

And with all-due respect.
You basically just told me to reconsider my stance on the gems being town.
That's not exactly something which endears me to the idea of the farside lynch being benign.

Two things. Firstly ... it's shitty that there's no communication by allying with you. We could infodump an absurd amount of info to you that you probably don't have and would help when you eventually step forward and take charge. We'll get the hell out of the way and just give our opinion if it means you'll actively play the game. An engaged and pushing Mastin is way better than what we're getting right now. Remember ... we've seen you at your best, and from your thread input, this isn't it. (No offense intended here; I'm trying to motivate).

As for Farside: the biggest thing I can't get around is how she handled ending the day yesterday. We

KNOW

Varsoon has been busy because he has said so, is not snagging page tops or giving vote counts nearly as often as normal, etc... which means the simplest explanation (invoking OR since you did first) is that Farside ensured he was around before she made her move and ended the day. There is no way to argue what she did was anything but scummy. Her action resulted in:

1.) Stress remaining at -4 when I believe both the gems and Kraska had set up triggers to increase stress at a certain vote threshold (correct me if I'm wrong; that's my understanding of where the gamestate was). That meant the scum could take out any target they wanted and nothing could prevent it.

2.) Exactly ONE alliance happening today, which just happened to be Farside. The problem with that is that Farside had firmly agreed to ally with Titus and they were supposedly going to sort their differences. She never took back her agreement to ally. So she effectively

lied to confirmed town

about it. Furthermore, Titus had claimed that her BP was contingent upon being allied, so Farside lied to Conftown in such a way that said Conftown would be vulnerable due to having no alliance the next night.

3.) I know you consider this circumstantial, but in light of the above two points: then a scum event was triggered in which only people who were allied could vote. It's sheer luck that someone could expend their role utility to both move stress and blow up the scum event. The fact that Farside

intentionally

initiated a situation where there would be very few alliances, lied to conftown (which would give the ability to kill Titus if something during the night had been able to take away the scum unblockable kill, btw) and also gave no warning and ensured the mod was around to end the day and lock as soon as she did it, and then the event came along that just happened to perfectly synergize with her actions?

If you want to argue that 3 is just co-incidence ... I'm not going to fight you over it. There's enough that's objectively scummy and unexplainable about her behavior if I assume town!farside that I don't have to fight over stuff that cannot be explicitly tied to her actions.

---

As for the gems, please consider the following: If the crystal gems (who are a third faction with a hidden win condition) really is simply a town faction with a different flavor but is for all intents and purposes town, then the following is true:

1.) At game start there were SEVEN slots who would never, under any circumstance, be possible to mislynch.
1a.) You (mod confirmed town to Yume to the thread), Titus (IC), the five gems (all are outed and most were obvious very early and in fact they leaked enough that we realized there was a separate faction super early)
1b.) The five gems are a very large masonry who started with night chat (standard for masons) but now apparently have day and night chat.

Use your setup mindset for a moment and tell me how you balance a game when nearly 1/3 of the slots can never be mislynched

AND

those slots are super powerful and have very strong protection.

HINT: Stress mechanic isn't the answer. Stress change isn't immediate so the stress shouldn't ever actually hit -4 ever in practice. It only did because of Farside's move. Take today, for example: Assuming we lynch scum, the flip will be delayed so the night begins with the scum not having unblockable kill. Scum presumably will kill someone so when the flip does happen, the gems simply flip one of the scum kills and ensure stress never hits -4.

Now ... with all of that said: my best guess is that the gems can win either with town or they can win by themselves. It's

possible

that they could win with scum, but that seems really unlikely to me for numerous reasons. Being in the possibility space makes it something to note just in case, but it isn't a top priority.

The point is: gems aren't town and we don't apparently get to know whether or not they need any town to win. We do know; however, that WE need an Earth aligned player alive to win. That means that we absolutely cannot win if all of us who are Earth aligned are dead.

The gems have claimed they also need an Earth aligned player left alive to win. That means that since the gems are outed, the scum team only has to kill off the others in order to win, if the gems are telling the truth. The problem with that is that we've SEEN the scum win condition. So if the gems cannot win once the last Earth aligned player is dead, the best they can do is play for a draw at that point because the scum win condition is: "In order to win the game, your faction must equal or exceed the number of other surviving players left alive." according to the flips.

So logically speaking, it seems most likely that the crystal gems can win alone

or

share a win with town. It does not make sense for the win condition they claimed to be true, because it basically takes a whole chunk of people and makes them unlynchable and it also greatly reduces the mislynches scum need to get into a position where the worst they get is a draw. It therefore seems far more likely to me that the gems can either win alone or have a shared win with town. I don't believe it logically holds to assume they must have an earth aligned player alive in order to win. That would result in "everyone loses" a lot of the time, and I can tell you from bitter experience that investing for hundreds of pages for a "You all lose! Nobody wins!" is really fucking infuriating and I simply don't think Varsoon would do that.

Cue MoI to come call me scum for using sound logic to point out why the win condition his faction has claimed doesn't make any sense and is therefore probably a lie.

~Drixx

P-edit: So the difference between Fuzzy and Farside, in my view, is very clear. I outlined the specific reasons why Farside's actions are crazy scummy. I also would appreciate it if nobody loses their shit because I just took the time to point out why it's almost certain the crystal gems have lied about their win condition. Given the site's intolerance of third parties, it's an understandable lie. I personally would have just been honest, but I'm not a crystal gem and therefore had no chance to argue that they should follow the old "honesty is the best policy" route.

In other words ... there should be burning at the stake of the Crystal Gems. I can think of only one plausible win condition where the Crystal Gems and scum would win together and it wouldn't really be a "win" for the CG's in terms of flavor. It would basically mean that the threats to earth (homeworld gems, from what we've seen) succeed and somehow that results in the CG's joining them. And that's only just barely plausible, considering the flavor.

I can also think of one specific win condition which, if it happens to be the actual win condition the gems have, not only excuses the lie but makes it necessary. If that happens to be the actual win condition, the CG's have my apology now and after the game. I'm posting that win condition on our hydra PT so you guys can check after the game.

[Reasonably Rational]

Sorry for the wall post. There's a lot in there. The part under the line is a logical reasoning for why we have suspected the Crystal Gems are not being honest with us. I'm tired of it because every time I point it out, MoI suddenly scum reads us and I'm hoping that this can just put an end to it.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

And I see rr ranting more while ignoring many gaps in logic.

Joy.

The only gap in my logic about the gems is the stress mechanic. Due to the delayed flips mechanic, we should never go into a night phase with stress at -4. It's not actually logically true that we should never hit -4 ... it's just that the delayed flips mechanic means that (barring people suddenly and unilaterally ending the day) there should never be a case where the day ends with stress at -4, and Varsoon made it very clear that stress changes during the night phase don't impact actions, etc...

Apart from that mistake I made in phrasing, the logic is sound. We tripled checked.

Now ... if you are talking about me pointing out that you ended yesterday in the scummiest possible fashion ... that's opinion.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

So, I just realized my reason with regards to why it makes sense you would be telling the truth about how your role functions was dumb...because you can't be investigated.

I don't know if that actually weakens any of my points, but you didn't /don't have much reason to claim honestly if you didnt want to.

Who said Varsoon wasn't aware of the issues with Bloodborne?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Moi: No? Shiro has my claim for what it's worth.

Farside specifically said her roleblock worked against anything but the scum kill. Did not specify if she meant all kills, or specifically the scum factional kill.

There was no reason for scum to assume stress would remain at slice of life with NC unflipped. It doesn't make sense for them to make a decision based off of something which, per previous days occurrences, they had no reason to expect would occur.

No...I just want to hear why Mastin is townreading grapes, a reason that doesn't include information that is not mod confirmed. That would be why I said to disregard the skybird targeted grapes claim? I didn't forget NCs protection claim, it's just irrelevant if you treat skybird having targeted grapes as unreliable information.

The two farside points are complementary, not contradictory. They both support the goal of making titus vulnerable tonight if something occurred to raise stress at the time of the hammer, while minimizing the chances that something would happen. An unstoppable kill is obviously better than a BP IC becoming known to be unprotected, amd thus likely drawing protection, so trying for the superior situation while arranging for the second option to still occur is perfectly reasonable.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

So, I just realized my reason with regards to why it makes sense you would be telling the truth about how your role functions was dumb...because you can't be investigated.

I don't know if that actually weakens any of my points, but you didn't /don't have much reason to claim honestly if you didnt want to.

Who said Varsoon wasn't aware of the issues with Bloodborne?

-Cerb

You are.
You think the mod would make something broken and reference bloodborne as why it's possible.

No? I reference bloodborne to show why MoIs position regarding you is wrong, by listing the ways in which your role as claimed is far weaker than Nahdias was in Bloodborne.

@Moi: No? Shiro has my claim for what it's worth.

Well Not Chara has what amounts to a guilty on you unless there is a specific circumstance in your claim that can explain it.

Given you don't want to claim I'll just assume it is a valid guilty.

@Everyone

- Not Chara has shared a piece of information that likely indicates RR is scum. If I die before he claims make sure to not let that fact be lost in the thread noise.

Only votes I will make today are RR or Creature.

Since you don't want to claim what the nature of the guilty is, and there exists no possible reason for a guilty on me, I'm going to have to assume you're misunderstanding something or are simply full of shit. Anyways, Shiro has my claim, AS I said. You also have part of it. I can't lie to handle your "guilty"since I'm already on the record,as it were, with my claim, so theres no reason to not go into more detail about the nature of the guilty...unless of course it's NOT a guilty and is thus more useful as a vague accusation tHan a specific claim I can refute.

@Farside

- Not Chara has a question that she wants you to confirm.

Please explicitly state whether your Ascetic power protects you from Nightkills or not.

I'm ascentic from all action except being shot by scum.
That doesn't mean I believe twie.

And here is where rr missed what I claimed about being ascentic.

I didn't miss that. You did not specify the scum factional kill, or just any kill originating from scum. You do mean that an vig shot would fail though, yes?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Someone not RR tell the difference between scum kill and scum factional kill?
How would scum kill only equal vig kill?
Anyone buying he's that dense, let me know.

...

There are two types of kills.

There are factional kills.
There are vig shots.

Factional kills are generally only possessed by scum.
Vig shots can be possesses by any slot.

So, there are three specific types of kills your reflexive roleblock could protect you against:

Scum factional kill.
Scum vig shots/shots that come from a scum slots role, rather than the fact that they are scum.
Anybody else's vig shot (again, a shot from.their role)

By saying "scum kill" you leave it unclear whether you're referring to just the first item, or the first TWO items.

It does howver, make it clear that a vig shot from a non-scum slot should fail on you.

Does this clear up the semantic issues for you?
@A50: Farside is, Creature probably is, TWIE might be, Shiro might be, Fuzzy likely isn't, mastin VERY likely isn't, MoI/Random are third party and who knows wtf they want, Grapes likely isn't(but ignoring TWIES claim, I have no objective reason to believe he's town, it's all "yeah looks town because he feels town because he just does"), S_S might be (I have a little trouble reconciling power level of a Goon versus what we've seen in flips from all sides).

I'm missing someone? Who am I missing?

Oh. Kraska. Umm. Kraska needs more research on my part. Clearing the scum event is undeniably pro-town, the fact that she could only do so at negative stress is an indication that it's a scum power (see Skybird's strongman), but it's a stretch to think scum triggered the event just do kraska could clear it for town cred.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Scum have vig shots? Which mod put that broken shit in?
It specifically says factional kill.
Are you trying to get me mod kills by using exacting wording rr?

Lol, no, all you needed to do was say factional kill.

I've seen scum with additional kills tied to roles. *shrug*

Okay, so you're vig and investigation proof. Got it.

I hate imprecision, ask any mod whose given me a complex role how many questions I kept badgering them about (those mods would be Varsoon, dramonic, and mastin).

Clearing up semantics is just what I do.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I call bulshit on MoI. I post irrefutable logic that the Crystal Gems are lying about their win condition, and suddenly he has a guilty? That fits the pattern of the entire game since the moment we figured out there was a third party. Every time we question why they have lied to us repeatedly, MoI starts slinging OMGUS at us.

Mastin knows our role. Shiro knows our role. Titus was able to check our role claim and actually permanently stole an ability from us. Again: Shiro can confirm that Titus put us through the wringer AND used her ability to steal abilities to confirm our honesty. It actually pissed us off because we specifically wanted to connect with Titus again to gameplan how to maximize the ability she stole ... and then died before using.

The fact that MoI doesn't ever have shit to say about us unless I point out that the Crystal Gem faction has lied to us, at which point he always shows up and suggests we're scum ... kind of speaks for itself.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I call bulshit on MoI. I post irrefutable logic that the Crystal Gems are lying about their win condition, and suddenly he has a guilty? That fits the pattern of the entire game since the moment we figured out there was a third party. Every time we question why they have lied to us repeatedly, MoI starts slinging OMGUS at us.

Mastin knows our role. Shiro knows our role. Titus was able to check our role claim and actually permanently stole an ability from us. Again: Shiro can confirm that Titus put us through the wringer AND used her ability to steal abilities to confirm our honesty. It actually pissed us off because we specifically wanted to connect with Titus again to gameplan how to maximize the ability she stole ... and then died before using.

The fact that MoI doesn't ever have shit to say about us unless I point out that the Crystal Gem faction has lied to us, at which point he always shows up and suggests we're scum ... kind of speaks for itself.

~Drixx

Um you haven't used irrefutable logic to prove that we are lying about our win-condition. You are trying to pass off your assumptions (which you believe, no-one else necessarily does) as proof when they are just that - assumptions. Which I and random both know for a fact your labored conclusion is incorrect. Chara even agrees that our Wincon is pretty clear and unambigous. And it strengthens my question about your alignment that you keep trying to somehow find a position that justifies all the work you have done doubt-casting the Gems.

The rest of this is literally flailing about. If you were Town who was confident that Mastin and Shiro both had your back then you wouldn't be this "emotional" about me scum reading you. Especially given I'm not even pushing for your lynch right now. Random has access to Not Chara's information also so even if I die he can fully relay information into the thread. Also scummy is your continual attempts to paint that my suspicion of you is only OMGUS when I've suspected your slot since early when I replaced in.

@Mastin or Shiro

- since you know RR's role and abilities why don't you claim them for him and we can put Not Chara's information to bed since

I'll make it simple. If you can refute any premise or show that the conclusion doesn't necessarily follow from the premises, then please do so. Otherwise, I got you and you can stop your shitty OMGUS already:

Premise 1: The town win condition is to eliminate all threats to Earth and requires at least one player aligned with Earth alive. (Sound premise, we know this for sure)
Premise 2: The scum win condition is to get to the point where they are equal or greater in numbers than the remaining players. (Sound premise, we know this for sure)
Premise 3: The Crystal Gem win condition is exactly as they claimed, despite there being two different claims: in short they win if all threats to earth are eliminated and at least one member aligned to the Crystal Gems and one member aligned to Earth are alive. They require both (Questionable premise, we don't know this for sure)

Premise 4 (Conditional upon 3 being sound): If the threats to Earth eliminate all players aligned with earth, then town loses on the spot and the gems can, at best, play for an "everyone loses" scenario. (Sound if premise 3 is sound)

Premise 5: Varsoon would not design a game where "everyone loses" is a plausible outcome. (Assumption based upon knowledge of the character and design skill of the game moderator)

Conclusion: Premise 3 fails because Premise 4 is absurd in light of Premise 5.


Also I'm curious Gems: Have you

all

seen one another's Role PMs or does only the leader see that? You see, we know that Yume (Steven) had serious concerns about one of the gems because of something in their role PM. We also know that said gem is now the leader. If you guys have not all actually seen one another's role cards, now would be a

really

smart time for you to admit such and then ask MOI to explain why Yume was concerned. We know, as did Titus and as does Shiro. We assume Mastin also knows.

MoI keeps trying to paint me as saying the Gems are scum, even though I go out of my way to say that I feel it's not really plausible. I think they simply have a win condition identical to town except that instead of needing both a member aligned with CG and a member aligned with Earth alive, they don't actually need anyone aligned with earth to survive. That explains why Yume was afraid to let KC flip and it takes away the glaring design flaw that the currently claimed win condition presents.

Do please answer gems. Have you all seen the role PM of every gem? If you do indeed have that info available to you, I would suggest you read carefully until you understand why Yume was concerned about a particular member of your group. There's a reason that info was given to us

after

Titus tested us and concluded we are town.

Love, with fresh cookies (even for the gems who are telling an understandable lie),
Drixx

P-edit: We would like to ally with Random or A50. A50 you know why we want to ally with you. Please let us know so we can submit accordingly.

[Reasonably Rational]

:/ Maybe as an ally if you're not opposed? Would have much preferred grapes or random today. Boo.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh lol. Maybe Kraska as an ally if you're not opposed. Missed a word. :p

Let's make it simple to parse:

Kraska, ally tonight?
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

The paranoia was due to an aspect of your role that shouldn't be discussed publicly.

Also...are you really trying to blame a mechanical fact which you should have had cleared up by the moderator before D1 even started on us asking questions about your win con, since it doesn't make sense as claimed?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Premise 1: The town win condition is to eliminate all threats to Earth and requires at least one player aligned with Earth alive. (Sound premise, we know this for sure)
Premise 2: The scum win condition is to get to the point where they are equal or greater in numbers than the remaining players. (Sound premise, we know this for sure)
Premise 3: The Crystal Gem win condition is exactly as they claimed, despite there being two different claims: in short they win if all threats to earth are eliminated and at least one member aligned to the Crystal Gems and one member aligned to Earth are alive. They require both (Questionable premise, we don't know this for sure)

These are all valid.

Premise 4 (Conditional upon 3 being sound): If the threats to Earth eliminate all players aligned with earth, then town loses on the spot and the gems can, at best, play for an "everyone loses" scenario. (Sound if premise 3 is sound)

And here’s where your logic fails. Thanks to you blathering Varsoon has specifically quantified in the Gem PT that if all Earth aligned players are eliminated the Gems automatically lose and are removed from the game. So your “Everyone Loses” analysis is wrong. And we thus we don’t even need to go any further.

Also I'm curious Gems: Have you all seen one another's Role PMs or does only the leader see that? You see, we know that Yume (Steven) had serious concerns about one of the gems because of something in their role PM. We also know that said gem is now the leader. If you guys have not all actually seen one another's role cards, now would be a really smart time for you to admit such and then ask MOI to explain why Yume was concerned. We know, as did Titus and as does Shiro. We assume Mastin also knows.

Everyone has seen everyone else’s role PMs. No gating by the Leader or anything else like that.

If Mastin or Shiro want to specify what Yume was supposedly concerned about please feel free.

Yume never expressed any doubt based on my Role Pm in the Crystal Gems PT. Random can confirm this independently. She got irritated for KTS being his usual douche-self early on but nothing beyond that.

1.) The fact that we realized there was a 3rd faction before anyone else (besides the gems, obviously) had a clue, and the fact that we realized the claimed wincon doesn't make sense isn't our fault, nor is it "blathering". I'm sorry that your win condition is what it is. In fact, the win condition you just admitted to is

precisely

the one I predicted in our hydra PT (you can check after the game for timestamp) and the one I said should

NEVER

be revealed and the one I said made your lie acceptable.

YOU SHOULD HAVE TOLD ME THAT THE WIN CONDITION WAS OBVIOUSLY THE ONE I FIGURED OUT AND I WOULD HAVE DROPPED IT.

.

That is a thing you should NEVER have said in this thread. You just gave the scum a fast track to winning the game. I don't even know what to say to that. Why on earth would you post that? I gave you a freaking out so you could specifically tell me that I was right and NOT give the scum team that info. Believe it or not (you could go read our Steven Universe hydra PT), we put a ton of effort and thought into games. It's probable that the scum team would never have thought of that possibility. That's

WHY I GAVE YOU THAT OUT

, because it occurred to me that there was precisely ONE really good protown reason to lie about the wincon.


2.) Yume expressed the doubt to Titus who passed it on to us after she tested us (again ... if Shiro EVER shows up, this can be verified) and concluded we are town. I'm not going to out the info because I'm hoping that it doesn't mean what Yume thought it means and that instead it means something better. That should be enough for you to know what I'm talking about.


It's too bad you are taking Random so we can't ally with him and funnel info to you. Given what you shared (which you should not have), I feel obligated to infodump to you guys but the only way I can do so is to ally with one of you. Let us know if that's possible.

~Drixx

P.S. - I am sorry that you felt cornered into sharing what you did, as a result of my posts. I do; however, feel like I

very clearly

stated in my wall post last night that I realized there was a specific win condition which would justify the lie and

gave you an out

. I never wanted you to post that or confirm it. I wasn't sure that was the actual win con or if you guys just had your own win con and the game was set up where you guys could win alone or win with town. The only possible silver lining is now the power imbalance of the setup makes sense and hopefully it means less scum and/or less scum power than would normally be needed to counter a 5-person pro-town masonry along with an IC and another conftown.

[Reasonably Rational]

The paranoia was due to an aspect of your role that shouldn't be discussed publicly.

Also...are you really trying to blame a mechanical fact which you should have had cleared up by the moderator before D1 even started on us asking questions about your win con, since it doesn't make sense as claimed?

-Cerb

Oh, so I'm blaming a "mechanical fact"? Nope. Sorry about your attempt to suggest I am.

The wincon is pretty crystal clear. Not Chara agrees. Most people who have commented on it agree.

You are basically the only one who somehow is trying to find some angle. Oh, and maybe Creature who will be flipping scum shortly I hope.

No...learn to parse complex sentences please. You are blaming US for a fact.

I guess Drixx put it better than I have. *shrug*

-Cerb

Pedit: it was, quite literally, the ONLY thing that made sense. Perhaps we should learn to give people less credit in the future.

[Reasonably Rational]

It's too bad you are taking Random so we can't ally with him and funnel info to you. Given what you shared (which you should not have), I feel obligated to infodump to you guys but the only way I can do so is to ally with one of you. Let us know if that's possible.

If you supposedly know my Role PM details you should know why aligning with me or random isn't in the cards for today.

We don't know anything about Random's role pm, sxcept as it interacts with your own, and certain parts of your role were associated with leadership, and so we didn't know if they were universal gem things or restrictions on just you, and whether or not you would force random to enable you if the restrictions weren't universal. :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

It's too bad you are taking Random so we can't ally with him and funnel info to you. Given what you shared (which you should not have), I feel obligated to infodump to you guys but the only way I can do so is to ally with one of you. Let us know if that's possible.

If you supposedly know my Role PM details you should know why aligning with me or random isn't in the cards for today.

I know exactly why you said that. The question for you is whether you value what we know that you don't more than you value something else. It was an open offer which you could take or leave.

I'm not going to out your role details for obvious reasons.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

@Fuzzy - This game is a really good example of why an "everyone loses" built into the game as a realistic outcome is a bad idea. It has been done and it went over like an anvil to the head.

You up for allying btw?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I said the opposite actually farside. I said if the current vote count reached 1/2 lynch rounded down -1(for your normal vote) you could hammer, when the threshold seems to actually be 1/2 lynch rounded up -1.

Basically, I assumed maximum power for you within the boundaries or your claim in order to minimize the risk of people accidentally enabling your hammers.

-Cerb

Pedit: essentially, yes, fuzzy. We both know varsoon fairly well, weve both discussed design philosophy with him, and Drixx is working on a game with Varsoon's help. With that knowledge, we don't believe Varsoon would enable a situation like that.

And that faith has been shown to be rightfully placed based on MoIs information he's shared.

[Reasonably Rational]

Keep reading mastin...as always.

Also, we've already outlined the scum motivation in doing what she did:forcing s series of mislynches rather easily. That's what it comes down to, if you remove all the detail and extra thoughts about these issues that our posting has contained.

Every time town successfully lynches scum, it is still just as close to losing as before they lynched scum. There are a certain number of mislyches scum need to achieve in order to win. As Drixx puts it, mislynches are a currency town has to spend. Failed scum kills/successfully vig shots increase that currency, and extra town deaths decrease it (though not at a 1:1 ratio)

If farside KNOWS 1) that there is no chance she isn't lynched at or immediately prior to lylo, and 2) her power is not functional in LYLO...why wouldn't scum!farside force as many of those mislynches as possible, before she is lynched /her power turned off?

-Cerb

Pedit: farside....3+creature vote is 4 total. So your extra votes would have been 3, yes?

[Reasonably Rational]

I assumed the threshold that had to be reached, NOT INCLUDING YOU, was 1/2 lynch rounded down, -1. So I assumed 3 other individuals had to vote, then you could vote+hammer. Maybe I'm misunderstanding where the VCs were at?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

twie/kraska/shiro

That's where I want the votes.

Have you caught up on the stuff you weren't really following, or is this based on today's posting?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Keep reading mastin...as always.

Also, we've already outlined the scum motivation in doing what she did:forcing s series of mislynches rather easily. That's what it comes down to, if you remove all the detail and extra thoughts about these issues that our posting has contained.

Every time town successfully lynches scum, it is still just as close to losing as before they lynched scum. There are a certain number of mislyches scum need to achieve in order to win. As Drixx puts it, mislynches are a currency town has to spend. Failed scum kills/successfully vig shots increase that currency, and extra town deaths decrease it (though not at a 1:1 ratio)

If farside KNOWS 1) that there is no chance she isn't lynched at or immediately prior to lylo, and 2) her power is not functional in LYLO...why wouldn't scum!farside force as many of those mislynches as possible, before she is lynched /her power turned off?

-Cerb

Pedit: farside....3+creature vote is 4 total. So your extra votes would have been 3, yes?

And the fear mongering needs to end or rr is scum claiming.

Farside..theres nothing about what I just said that isn't perfectly accurate(in terms of potential, at least).

TWIE or Creature Farside?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Mastin knows our role.

No, I don't.
I know you have an ability which counts as a kill. Which is the reason I couldn't investigate you. (My top choice.)
I know your flavor.

That's it.

Then Yume failed. You should know who we are and what our abilities are.

The tl;dr of what I'm saying:
I'm quite dead serious, what RR is saying is how I pitch things as scum: with empty bravado. I use fluff words. I use big terms. I use buzzwords. I say things. I fearmonger. I write a narrative. I say they are doing this, this, and that. They back these claims up with objectively-bad plays that have been made.

But they don't actually give the heart and drive of the matter. They don't give sustenance. It's not something which appeals to me, because there's nothing in there but words as far as I'm concerned. A sort-of Trump-like rally: something meant to incite a reaction in a crowd who demands action for their grievances, but which has no solid footing. (Yes, I went there. Dealwithit.)

Sometimes scum act scummy. I'm not going to talk in circles with you. There's no foolproof objective evidence nor is there likely to be because Varsoon despises cops and mechanical guilties and wants people to PLAY the game. To say that we haven't seriously pushed Farside just tells me you haven't been reading. It's absurd that when people couldn't vote because the scum event was active, people expressed the desire to lynch Farside. Then the scum event got blown up and all of a sudden all of that vanishes.


And no ... I won't just "dealwithit" that you just compared me to Donald Trump. That's way beyond and across the line and I'm going straight to the listmods. (For the record: I would feel the same way if you compared me to Hillary Clinton). You just somehow managed to say something to me so nasty and so uncalled for that it tops Titus telling me in SF that I was mentally ill and also tops Lapsa telling me that I was going to hell last year. Congratulations ... you just actually legitimately offended me.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Keep reading mastin...as always.

Also, we've already outlined the scum motivation in doing what she did:forcing s series of mislynches rather easily. That's what it comes down to, if you remove all the detail and extra thoughts about these issues that our posting has contained.

Every time town successfully lynches scum, it is still just as close to losing as before they lynched scum. There are a certain number of mislyches scum need to achieve in order to win. As Drixx puts it, mislynches are a currency town has to spend. Failed scum kills/successfully vig shots increase that currency, and extra town deaths decrease it (though not at a 1:1 ratio)

If farside KNOWS 1) that there is no chance she isn't lynched at or immediately prior to lylo, and 2) her power is not functional in LYLO...why wouldn't scum!farside force as many of those mislynches as possible, before she is lynched /her power turned off?

-Cerb

Pedit: farside....3+creature vote is 4 total. So your extra votes would have been 3, yes?

And the fear mongering needs to end or rr is scum claiming.

Farside..theres nothing about what I just said that isn't perfectly accurate(in terms of potential, at least).

TWIE or Creature Farside?

-Cerb

Shrug

They both read scummy and neither suspect one another.

Which one do you think is scum?
Why?

Your stuff is fear mongering since I'm town.

Right this moment, if it's a choice between just those two... Creature. Magna has pointed out the many lies and contradictions from creature which are reason enough. At this point he's been caught in so many conflicting statements and outright lies that it's super hard to try and explain that away, especially the posts where he tries to refute Magna's points. It's pretty close to beyond reasonable doubt at this point. The one thing that makes me pause a little on Creature is that I can't think of any motivation that makes sense for the things he's said. I don't see what he could possibly be trying to gain.

As for TWIE... we've had a clock on him going back a few days. I believe what I told A50 when we were allied and I dumped my reads to him was that if TWIE wasn't engaged and obviously game solving by day 6, then he needed to be pushed and considered scum unless he somehow made himself OTAF. So far, he doesn't appear engaged or really doing anything at all, and tomorrow is day 6. Tick tock.

~Drixx

P.S. - Okay for serious Farside. I can (and have) pointed out potential scum motivation in your actions. Anyone can say they are town. If you really want to keep having the discussion, then we should just ally and sniff each other's asses in a PT where we doing clutter up the game thread with this shit any more. If nothing else, it will save everyone else from having to deal with it, and if you are

actually

town (I will admit that it's in the possibility space), you might even find a way to convince us. I mean ... I've had a stronger case against someone before and they flipped town (Titus in Space Dandy 2) ... so I'm willing to at least give you enough benefit of the doubt to listen and re-evaluate my thinking.

What I'm not going to do is keep this non stop noise going with this back and forth with you in the main thread.

[Reasonably Rational]

Mastin: Why do you think we handled Beach-a-palooza the way we did? We also attempted to amplify another ability but that didn't work out. If shiro ever decides to play again, he can confirm that there was a way to misdirect and possibly get a mechanical guilty, and that Titus really pissed us off with how she handled it when we trusted her enough to talk about it and how we wanted to use it. The only way one could say we aren't trying to get the most out of the role utility we're aware of isn't paying attention.

That doesn't change the fact that Varsoon hates cops and does his best to design games that have to be solved the hard way.

I appreciate your attempt to walk back what you said to me, but no you weren't attacking my play. You directly compared me the person to Donald Trump the person. This is a man who was accused of raping his first wife in the divorce proceedings and the judge found the accusation credible and the ruling reflects that. I could make a very long list of things that you were saying about me when you compared me the person to Donald Trump the person, but I think "probable rapist" is enough to convey precisely how ugly what you said was.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

@Shiro – why did you not use your Event yesterday?

Lol that role was a joke xD

Confirming this insofar as what he's claimed in the PT. I actually thought it was a real claim and that he was Ronaldo as a result, prior to his claim yesterday.

He also did express a willingness to lynch creature within the pt yesterday, and ostensibly voted creature during the event, though I have no proof of that, and I don't know anything more about his views on any slots from prior to our alliance.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Mastin: I've avoided joining any wagons other than farside's because I didn't want to enable her votes. NOW though, I think both other wagons are past the threshold, so a farside lynch is basically impossible without a bunch of unvoting, since she can just hammer either one.

With that said, your line of reasoning regarding TWIE makes a fuckton of sense, and Drixx did say that he wanted you playing the game and to get out of your way. I'll check in with him, but given his position that twie should be gamesolving by D6, and our proximity to said day,I'm pretty sure that Drixx will agree that TWIE is objectively the best lynch for today, EVEN in the face of the numerous reasons to suspect Creature.

VOTE: TWIE

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Shiro: TWIE claimed to have a vig shot that's only usable on the season finale, thus only the one attempt at using it.
Farside:nobody else has claimed vig, but on N3 we had two deaths. It's possible both deats were caused by scum, but it's also likely that there's a vig who used a shot.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I think that's l-1 for TWIE. I don't know what Creature is at.

Fuzzy, why did you claim right now, when you didn't use your refunded shot last night? Were you allied last night?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Shiro doesn't get anything from being in an alliance. He never claimed he did. He just has a power to allow alliance chats to extend beyond the initial day.

MoI: I don't have any events left.

Off to work, going to be fairly busy until the weekend so please don't end the day until I can evaluate things considering the TWIE flip.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

There IS an actual plot that develops over the course of multiple episodes, but it is somewhat in the style of x-files fo3 the first season, where some episodes are (on the surface) wholly unrelated to said main plot (though those unrelated episodes frequently have important hints about the overarching story hidden throughout)....but unlikethe x-files, the unrelated episodes are for character development.

Attack on Titan does have an overarching plot as well, so I assume the fact that you considered it boring is unrelated to your complaint about the lack or plot in SU?

Anyways, game stuff :

@farside : I assume Varsoon meant a standard roleblock can't block an alliance, which doesn't mean a power specifically aimed at denying an alliance to someone couldn't exist.

Kraska and fuzzy were supposed to be allied right? Can you please both confirm that you submitted your request BEFORE the original action submission deadline and confirm with Varsoon that you are not supposed to have an alliance today? My alliance with farside worked fine.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Farside: Can you get varsoon to clarify if whatever you used to check him let's you know if someone gets passive benefits (like the bp of SCs role or the immunity to their allies actions of Titus' role) of if it tells you if it enables access to a power, OR both?

Because like he said, we've had our pt around ever since the season finale, so it seems most likely that you're misunderstanding your result(or I guess thar he's scum and has a teammate who used this power to make our pt permanent). Did you say when you received this result?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Umm, I think it's just the lie detector event that's unclaimed right now. I'd double check, but I'm at work.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

An ability in the game has confirmed that Farside22 is NOT in a Masonry with Firebringer.
The Stress has increased by 1, towards 'Tragic Destiny'. The current stress is +1.

This. I notice it doesn't say it's an event though, so maybe not? IF so, all events have been claimed I believe.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Cerb
Who do you think is scum?

Without doing any analysis accounting for twies flip, Creature/Farside. I need to look at the wagons yesterday and see if there was an opportunity for farside to hammer creature and spare TWIE to determine whether such a team is even possible. After them are kraska/shadow/fuzzy, who all have weak reason to be considered more likely town than not.

[Reasonably Rational]

Samurai Champloo? I would suggest Cowboy Bebop, but it's fairly episodic at the beginning. Honestly, there's a lot I could suggest, it really depends on your tastes though.

Agreed on thr Attack on Titan over hype. It is good though.

-Cerb (last post was also from me)

Pedit: not much happening in alliance, farside outlined why she doesn't trust me and I've been too busy to respond. NOTHING that has happened has removed the reasoning regarding our slots suspicion of farside. The gem "trust" is because MoIs answer to us mentioning that their win condition didn't make sense is the ONLY way I could see them as potentially being balanced as a second town faction rather than a true third party.

Kraskas towniness comes from the the low likelihood of scum using her powers to neutralize their own event, an event which would have forced town to no lynch, and by her power not being used to enable skybirds strongman.

Shadows comes from the fact that a scum goon seems unlikely in a role madness game, and because skybird, who had an investigative ability, allying with them on D1 doesn't make sense if they were scum.

Fuzzys comes from his event usage, and is probably the weakest of the three, given that we now know at least one of the likely lynches on that day, if not for snarky, was definitely scum.

Shiro knew what I knew, that is, that a kill on MoI wouldn't work, so I can't see a scum team which included shiro taking a shot at MoI without the benefit of -4 stress. It's not impossible that they did I guess, because the information we had didn't say EXACTLY what would happen, just that MoI would be able to continue playing and maybe they hoped he'd be stumped or something, but it seems really unlikely.

So yeah, shiro is probtown now.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Farside: Can you get varsoon to clarify if whatever you used to check him let's you know if someone gets passive benefits (like the bp of SCs role or the immunity to their allies actions of Titus' role) of if it tells you if it enables access to a power, OR both?

Because like he said, we've had our pt around ever since the season finale, so it seems most likely that you're misunderstanding your result(or I guess thar he's scum and has a teammate who used this power to make our pt permanent). Did you say when you received this result?

-Cerb

Not specifically but I'm aware that titus could not be killed by those in an alliance with her. My ability checked all 3 of you that night.

All I get is player has no alliance ability or I'm told if they have an alliance ability.
Ie: can only be triggered while in an alliance

Wait, so your power told you that titus couldn't be killed by those allied with her, but only returns whether or not someone has an alliance ability? Can you ask Varsoon if someone has a power they can use anytime, but which only affects allies and is thus useless when one isn't in an alliance, would show up? I'm trying to reconcile the result you have with my belief that a scum team with Shiro on it seems very unlikely to have tried to kill MoI, and the fact that the pt was indeed extended.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@mastin: I just skimmed kraskas iso on D1. They make basically no mention of SC at all until they ask if he's at l-1, vote him, and then ask people to just end the day. I can see that behavior coming from both town tired of how long the day has gone(especially since they were talking about being behind even then) and scum who wanted to make sure they were on the scum lynch, but it may be SLIGHTLY more likely to come from scum than town on the basis of their complete silence regarding his slot. I'd need to reread D1 in more detail to see if they were actively avoiding discussing SC, or if he simply wasn't a topic of significance at the time they made their major posts.

Partner? Creature is quite literally the ONLY remaining candidate in their pool who I don't have reason to believe is town.

Kraska--Creature honestly makes a lot of sense, since there has been a great deal of actual contradictions between their claims and what's actually happened. My biggest problem with the idea of kraska scum right now is the fact that scum never used her stress modification to allow skybirds strongman earlier in the game.

@Farside: it turns the temporary alliance chat into a permanent neighborhood. The message from the mod specifies thar there is no mechanical benefit from the chat, other than the ability to continue to speak privately.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Creature giving Kraska an endgame pass is sorta meaningless. I mean, if you're right the ONLY way I can see that being a beneficial play is if kraska has an ability to cause a daykill/second kill in said lylo, otherwise she just always gets lynched in lylo when her claimed IC doesn't materialize. There's plenty of other reasons to have suspicion of the slots, but that connection is particularly weak.

Also, yes, Shiro waa already town for other reasons I expressed. Your point that the scum event you're aware of interacts negatively with his role isn't a good one though. Every scum role we've seen has had cause to want to be allied, AND shiros extended alliance chat DOES NOT count as an alliance. I'll ask Varsoon, but I'm pretty sure that event wouldn't have any effect on any of his retained chats.

@Mastin: my exact event phrasing said each player "submits" someone to star in beachapalooza, not votes for them. I'll ask Varsoon, but I don't believe skybird would have been able to double the vote, unless she had had access to that pearl account, which would have been a separate slot submitting stuff. That's pure speculation though.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

kraska is the only I am not confident is town from the topvoters.

Explain this. I don't remember seeing a very strong town read stance from you on either myself OR farside22, so this comes as a bit of a surprise.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Sorry, I've been home a lot less than I had originally expected this week/end, and Drixx's computer got fried on Thursday. Both the kraska and creature lynches seem like the correct move to take given the contradictions and inconsistencies, though creature seems more likely to hit scum than kraska simply because of the strongman thing...but as farside has pointed out to me in our pt, just one thing doesn't necessarily outweigh a whole bunch of suspicious things.

To answer your question creature: The kraska 3p IC in lylo thing is, as I stated, a really bad scum gambit, UNLESS in such a situation they can force an immediate win by forcing a day kill/an extra kill during the night. The benefit of such a gambit(that is, WINNING EVERY TIME) is enough though that I could see a scum team which has been backed against the wall relying on it to remove themselves from the PoE pool. So, overall that particular point is pretty NAI, but unless we have a town slot who could somehow prevent us from losing to such a gambit, it doesn't seem worth it to take the risk and guarantee her slot will survive till 3p lylo.

Random, are you doing to do your thing so we can see the results of whatever it is and move on with the rest of the day?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

MoI is waiting for random to do...something.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Varsoon is not going to force replace someone because the town disagrees with their play style and/or availability, unless their inactivity exceeds the limits set forth in his rules.

Pretty sure similar calls for action have been made in his games in the past, and he has always chosen to not interfere.

Random, do the thing yo, whatever it is.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Varsoon: would NCs investigative power have revealed a scum slot who had no personal powers that could negatively affect someone (such as SC or TWIES roles), but who had access to their factional kill?

@Moi: good job. IMAGINE if you had done that when Titus and I were urging you to on D4. Titus would probably still be alive!

Anyways what were NCs results? I assume one was on me, which is why you acted like they had a guilty on me(which is especially hilarious since Yume and mastin knew since D2 that I would have given a positive result to that particular check, and thus you should have known as well), so did they check anyone else or use their negative power removal thing on anyone?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Awesome, so I know you read that post. Care to answer the questions posed within?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Moi: good job. IMAGINE if you had done that when Titus and I were urging you to on D4. Titus would probably still be alive!

My computer is kaput thanks to an accidental spill of water into the top of it (I have a Coolermaster HAF 932 case if you don't get why that would fry my comp), so I can only phone post and I've only skimmed because reading on my phone is horrible, but I did note that you are still adversarial with our slot, and that's dumb and needs to stop. We're in a super good position but having people on the same side going after one another is how we go from super good position to losing (See: Steven Universe).

1.) Anyone who objectively puts you and us in ISO will see that you basically went OMGUS on us when we were trying to get to the bottom of why you were obviously lying about your win con as a faction. Despite me telling you I had figured out a win condition that would justify a lie and should not be shared, you then went ahead and shared

that exact win condition

, which should never have been shared given the implications, and blamed us for it as if us paying attention and trying to make sure we didn't get Saga Frontiered was a bad thing. (See: Saga Frontier). When your only reason to be hostile to us is that we caught on to what was up and called you on things not adding up, that's a problem.

2.) We know your role, or at least we know what Titus was told your role is. So does Shiro. That's why Cerb said earlier this day phase that Shiro makes little sense as scum. Mastin I think realized the implication of that, but you seem to be ignoring it. Why?

In any case, I am scrambling to get an old laptop up and working well enough that I can stay plugged in and keep playing. I haven't been able to talk to Cerb at all yet so if we could maybe not end the day, that would be nice. I'd like to talk to Farside a little more and post my thoughts where they can be passed on if needs be. I know that the game is long and has gone on quite some time, but please just give me a little time to get something working where it won't take me an hour to make a post and let's say 36 hours to talk with Cerb and Farside and I'll be able to say what I need to say.

~Drixx

P.S. - Do try and put yourselves in our shoes MoI. We've been working our butt off all game. We have absolutely no idea what Not Chara said to you or what actual value it brought, but we

do know

what was lost when Titus was killed, and it's more than you think. At one point I think you claimed a guilty of some sort but then that never actually materialized. From our POV, the utility value of Titus being alive outweighs whatever the value of having a conftown dead person you could talk to privately was. I am willing to assume you guys had some kind of plan in place to do this that day if Kraska failed to move stress and it came close to lynch and that said plan was torpedoed by how the day ended, but it's still really frustrating, especially because of some things that we (our slot and Shiro) know that you don't.

For example, when Titus died we lost our slot being 100% cleared (instead of just pretty obviously town for several reasons) as well as the ability to ensure a win 100%. If Shiro will actually take the time to read the PT with us from the first season finale, then he can confirm that we had an ace up our sleeves that made it basically impossible for scum to win (barring someone in the town or gems intentionally game throwing).

So ... you can respond with a little rolling your eyes emoticon, but at the end of the day Cerb is right. If you guys had done it way back when, that would have been better.

All of that said: it would be a whole lot better if we could stop with this adversarial crap already. We can't change what has come before, but we can change what comes next.

[Reasonably Rational]

There wasn't anything adversarial about my previous post. It may be uncomfortable to put you and us in ISO and admit that objectively you only came after us when we pressed your faction on the lie, and it may also be uncomfortable to admit that I specifically said I had concluded what your win condition had to be to justify the lie and stressed that you should not confirm it or say it, but you decided to do so anyway. I suspect that was a frustration/emotional thing, but I think we can both agree it was unwise.

As for why the reward that Mastin chose from Beach-a-Palooza would give a false positive on us ... that's the same reason it would on

YOU

, presuming what Titus relayed to us about your role is true. You can do the same thing we can according to her. If that doesn't make it click for you, then just review our ISO. We made no secret about what we can do on season finale and since you can also do it (presuming Titus relayed accurate info to us), it seems fairly obvious to me that the Crystal Gem faction and we (Earth) also have the same ability

for a reason

.

You know what ... it's in our ISO so instead of making you go look (which is normally what we do because we want people to take notes and make a habit of looking back at parts of the game they forgot about, since so many towns squander wins by failing to do so), I'll just re-state it: On season finales (and under specific under circumstances) we can hammer a wagon and no ability can prevent that player dying. This implies there's an ability to lynch evade (and if we posit Town!Farside, then we should also posit scum still around who has a way to avoid a lynch, which should adjust how we view the M/LYLO equation, but that's a side point) in play on the scum team. We actually originally intended to have the winner of beach-a-palooza confirm us as unable to kill with the investigate so we could spend literally zero effort on defense; however, I realized that the ability to ensure a lynch happens could, according to the wording of the beach-a-palooza reward investigate, return a guilty. I asked Varsoon and he said that the ability would return a positive to that check, which we passed to Mastin via Yume immediately given the gameplan was to clear us and that would not have done so. Our instruction to Yume was to relay our ability and that it would return a guilty and we also asked Yume to tell Mastin to ask Varsoon her own questions about roles in general in the wiki or from other games as hypotheticals so that Varsoon wouldn't be in a position to confirm our ability with any answer. I assume she did so since she earlier stated that she had been informed we would return a false positive.

The cool part is that you can also do the same thing. Varsoon is super cool about answering hypothetical questions to clarify mechanics as long as you ask them in such a way that he doesn't end up confirming or outing a claim someone has made as true/untrue. I invite you to go ahead and drop him a PM and ask if your ability (presuming we are correctly informed) would have triggered a positive on the beach-a-palooza investigative reward. You'll be told that yes it would.

There's a lot more I'd like to say to you, so perhaps you want to ally with us and talk a little more clearly? I've been working on the assumption that you know a lot more than you seem to know, so perhaps an info dump of what we know will be useful to you.

ALSO:

I've got a really old laptop working so just give me ~ a day to talk to Cerb and finish talking to Farside in our alliance before we end the day please.

~Drixx

P.S. - I'm asking you to re-assess your view on us rationally MoI. If you go back and set aside bias and still conclude that we're anywhere near likely to be scum, I would be very surprised (and you would be wrong, but that's a separate matter). And before you write my post off as some sort of play, please do go look at how the original Steven Universe played out. There are strong parallels and we would like to avoid the same outcome. Also you're running a game based upon OotS, so that means we should be friends.