Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]

[Rels]

and while you're saying "I am not saying it makes you scum lol.", you're spending quite a lot of time giving hints to that direction. And that started to change Cass' read for example.

[Rels]

UNVOTE: havingfitz
VOTE: Hapahauli

[Rels]

I am not saying it makes you scum lol.
I am saying it doesn't exculde you from his possible partners like BV suggested.
I am never going to make a case on someone based on "this mafia guy said X or Y about this A dude therefore he is scum". That's just retarded imo.

"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."

come on you were never gonna get lynched and you know it aswell as i do.

read a little further ahead, just after the vc where the rels wagon has 4 people on board -- hes saying he doesnt want a rels lynch today, he wants a hapa lynch d1, hes just pressing rels for (???? something about a lynch)

If this is true seems like he wasn't wanting to lynch Rels after all.. ^^

Also Kops point that Rels could flip scum makes me feel much better about Kop since

he doesn't need to push Rels here if he's scum with him and they could just force that Hapa lynch.

oh my...
i so do this when i am mafia. i so do just the same because i am an arrogant prick. ^_^

If we are talking about associative reads this is the best thing i have seen here (i am not saying this is the case but i kinda want it to be).
"Let's call someone town for a reason that should make people think i am town too for the same reason without me trying to tell them i am town, like they can figure it out by themselves, i just pointed them to the "right" track."

After this game if Rels happens to be mafia, i wanna know if this is true or not, because i tip my hat to you Hawk if it is, that's quite smart!

I had a nice reply typed up then my phone fucked it all up by restarting itself for a update. So I will post this when I can get in front of a computer since I actually have a lot to say about this.

But to answer that last part BV yes I intend baring us finding some really good reasoning based of Rels response to lynch him. Move back to Hapa to end the day with that lynch.

ah here we go.

So basically he put his vote on Rels with "let's see what Rels says so i can decide if i keep my vote on him or not", right?

Nope, just hinting at it. Like a fucking scum would do

[Rels]

"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
BUT IF RELS WAS SCUM HAWK SURE HAD A GOOD SCUM GAME RIGHT GUYYYYYS

[Rels]

Hapa / OOO

[Rels]

Game over

[Rels]

Hawk does spend a lot of time discrediting the Hap push though. See "

Rels and OoO are off playing Mafia on TL forums and responding with meta alignments and indications I wanna vomit at how much all of their case against Hapa initially was noise and I couldn't dig into it myself

" in 659. He also votes both Kop and KidAmn when they were counterwagons to Hap but never actually votes Hap himself despite saying he's suspicious of him.

As mafia, why would you want to be on a mislynch wagon? He never also says "no, do not lynch Hapa! He is town!".
For me it looks like he realizes (incorrectly) that people are most likely going to lynch Hapa (especailly since @ post 888 which you initially quoted) there are already people (and the mindset in MS seems to be) who were like "we can't lynch anyone else" or "do not derail the wagon". For me it looks like it can just as easily be that he thinks "where ever i put my vote (without a real case) it doesn't matter". Do you disagree that is not a possibility?

I thought you knew the entire thread ?
If yes, why are you ignoring that post where Hawk said "mm too many people wants to vote Hapa it's suspicious" just after voting me ?
If yes, why are you saying Hawk jumped off my wagon to Aubrey's when my wagon was starting to have a lot of people ?

[Rels]

[quote="In post 1607
now, that aside: @OOO, BV has a point that hawk avoided the hapa wagon like demon-possessed plague
theres two narratives here:
1: hapa is scum that hes trying to derail from off wagon, and he faked a slip for distancing if he gets lynched
2: hapa is town and hawk was pushing from off wagon for towncred from vca, and he made a genuine slip

which feels more likely to you?

I can't tell from that only. But think about if a mafia dude said something about you that "makes you their partner". How do you ever defend yourself as town? Because you can't, as you are not the person whose actions are considered. I hate those kind of reads because mafia occasionally do that and if town buys it there is nothing you can do about it, and it's retarded imo, you are judged based on someone else's actions.

I am not saying what Hawk has ever said makes Rels mafia, however much he wants to yell that to ppl. I am saying (and answering BV) that i don't think Hawk's actions make Rels town, as he suggests. I

n fact they make Hapa more likely town than Rels.

That's what i think, if someone wants to sue me for it i don't care, i am just writing what i think is the truth here.

This is the retarded part. I cannot believe you can believe that. It doesn't make sense. At all. And apparently you're making this judgement call without even rechecking everything since you asked Cass for posts. That makes no sense

[Rels]

They is the inverse mindset.
"Scum is not voting X but is voting every other wagon available"
This is the original information.
"X is scum". Makes sense. That's the straight up way, trying to protect his teammate.
"Nothing can be said abou it". Makes sense too. That's the WIFOM way, maybe scum is hoping X gets mislynched.
"X is more likely to be town". That makes no sense.

[Rels]

If yes, why are you ignoring that post where Hawk said "mm too many people wants to vote Hapa it's suspicious" just after voting me ?

Because the post doesn't mean anything in the scenario i find most likely. I have literally just argued about it.

WELL THEN GO CHECK IT BEFORE MAKING CALLS

If yes, why are you saying Hawk jumped off my wagon to Aubrey's when my wagon was starting to have a lot of people ?

Clarify please, i don't understand the question.

You said:

OOO are you working on the idea that I'm scum; Hawk is my partner; and he voted me over Hapa ?

Yeah why not? You weren't gonna get lynched anyways and when your wagon gained some traction he was quite happy to put his vote elsewhere. I don't see the problem in how his voting cannot make you mafia.

Which is false, when he switched to Aubrey I only had 2 votes left on me.

[Rels]

[quote="In post 1607
now, that aside: @OOO, BV has a point that hawk avoided the hapa wagon like demon-possessed plague
theres two narratives here:
1: hapa is scum that hes trying to derail from off wagon, and he faked a slip for distancing if he gets lynched
2: hapa is town and hawk was pushing from off wagon for towncred from vca, and he made a genuine slip

which feels more likely to you?

I can't tell from that only. But think about if a mafia dude said something about you that "makes you their partner". How do you ever defend yourself as town? Because you can't, as you are not the person whose actions are considered. I hate those kind of reads because mafia occasionally do that and if town buys it there is nothing you can do about it, and it's retarded imo, you are judged based on someone else's actions.

I am not saying what Hawk has ever said makes Rels mafia, however much he wants to yell that to ppl. I am saying (and answering BV) that i don't think Hawk's actions make Rels town, as he suggests. I

n fact they make Hapa more likely town than Rels.

That's what i think, if someone wants to sue me for it i don't care, i am just writing what i think is the truth here.

This is the retarded part. I cannot believe you can believe that. It doesn't make sense. At all. And apparently you're making this judgement call without even rechecking everything since you asked Cass for posts. That makes no sense

Why so? What makes my posts contradictional from the thought process you think i am having?
See this is why your stance on fitz was so fucking fishy. Now you're doing (or trying to look like you are doing) what i would expect you to do if you're town.

First, you're making calls without rereading the exact stuff, which is EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID YOU HATED
Second, you're saying "Flipped scum has a scummy behaviour towards X so X is more likely town". NO. X can be town or X can be scum, it's WIFOM if you want at the very best.

[Rels]

Leaving work. See you in a few hours when I get home

[Rels]

If yes, why are you ignoring that post where Hawk said "mm too many people wants to vote Hapa it's suspicious" just after voting me ?

Because the post doesn't mean anything in the scenario i find most likely. I have literally just argued about it.

WELL THEN GO CHECK IT BEFORE MAKING CALLS

If yes, why are you saying Hawk jumped off my wagon to Aubrey's when my wagon was starting to have a lot of people ?

Clarify please, i don't understand the question.

You said:

OOO are you working on the idea that I'm scum; Hawk is my partner; and he voted me over Hapa ?

Yeah why not? You weren't gonna get lynched anyways and when your wagon gained some traction he was quite happy to put his vote elsewhere. I don't see the problem in how his voting cannot make you mafia.

Which is false, when he switched to Aubrey I only had 2 votes left on me.

The post doesn't mean anything. If you do think it means something then fucking say what instead of calling my thought process (you apparently have no idea about) scummy.

What is false there? Having votes != thread sentiment. Thread sentiment suggests that Hawk started deflecting from lynching you (which he never really did try in the first place tbh) when people got somewhat interested in it. The number of votes you were having when he unvoted is irrelevant.

I thought you were only trying to prove Hapa was town, not that I was scum ? But here you're saying you were actually arguiing that Hawk's voting pattern makes me more likely to be scum. But I thought you were just trying to prove I wasn't town just because of Hawk's actions ....
And if that post doesn't mean anything, what post does mean something then ? You still haven't reread this part of the thread, even though you're basing lots of reads on it ?

[Rels]

actually reading back through quotes dont really do it justice, one of those "must see to believe" things kinda. context is important.

so it starts here: viewtopic.php?p=8925313#p8925313 1029. and it gets interesting here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p8925647 1062

like he can talk to the people scumreading him calmly and quietly all through d1
d2 he caves under minor pressure

lol
maybe because I was not under any pressure, but just mad and excited at the same time p: maybe it's caused by the fact I realized OOO was scum. Maybe. Who knows.

[Rels]

actually I'll stop with the irony. Cass, you're not very good at mafia. At least this game, maybe in other games you played better IDK. You're almost lock town in my POV so I'm not talking about alignment there. But since you started playing I've seen you post lots of things that didn't make any sense.
Nothing you've said makes me scum. Let's see.

Because I don't know what "softballing" means doesn't mean shit.

You claim that I have not read the thread 'cause I'm missrepresenting something KidDamn did - by all means prove it.

You're saying that I was calm when being scumread and now I'm acting excited while being scumread so there is a difference. First, so what ? Second, I was not excited 'cause I was scumread. Actually nobody was pushing me when I "got excited", since you hadn't revealed your scumread yet. But I shouldn't have to even say that, 'cause the first counter argument was pretty good : so what ?

And finally this is the funniest thing: "when the thread sentiment turns against him d1, when hawk is active and helping, he goes silent running mode and ignores scumreads on him"
Tghen you quote the part in question: "so it starts here: viewtopic.php?p=8925313#p8925313 1029. and it gets interesting here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p8925647 1062"
Well. What's really funny in your link is that you're pointing to the firs titme in the thread someone started to scumread Hawk. Out of nowhere. While being "scumread myself and ignoring it", as you're saying. Don't know how that makes sense in your world.

Voilà. Get good mate.

[Rels]

rels im withholding comment on atm except to wave vaguely at softballed questions and easy-mode townreads again

What townreads did you find "easy-mode" ?

[Rels]

I think it's more likely he's scum than Rels. Look at how Hawk reacted when I replaced in, wrote a huge reads list and posted a case on Hap. He said it was a good one, unvoted KidAmn, and voted RELS. Why would he vote his partner when a case was made against a townie?

Do you remember what was the votecount at that time?

Thanks for that though Cass.
So at post 888 we are looking at:

[L-4] Hapahauli - KidAmn, Creature, BlackVoid
[L-5] KidAmn - Rels, hapahauli
[L-5] Kop - Aubrey, doomfeathers
[L-5] Rels - Kop, Hawk
[L-6] doomfeathers - MooginSoosy
[L-6] havingfitz - outoforder

Mm interested in votecounts.
But later:

If yes, why are you ignoring that post where Hawk said "mm too many people wants to vote Hapa it's suspicious" just after voting me ?

Because the post doesn't mean anything in the scenario i find most likely. I have literally just argued about it.

WELL THEN GO CHECK IT BEFORE MAKING CALLS

If yes, why are you saying Hawk jumped off my wagon to Aubrey's when my wagon was starting to have a lot of people ?

Clarify please, i don't understand the question.

You said:

OOO are you working on the idea that I'm scum; Hawk is my partner; and he voted me over Hapa ?

Yeah why not? You weren't gonna get lynched anyways and when your wagon gained some traction he was quite happy to put his vote elsewhere. I don't see the problem in how his voting cannot make you mafia.

Which is false, when he switched to Aubrey I only had 2 votes left on me.

The post doesn't mean anything. If you do think it means something then fucking say what instead of calling my thought process (you apparently have no idea about) scummy.

What is false there? Having votes != thread sentiment. Thread sentiment suggests that Hawk started deflecting from lynching you (which he never really did try in the first place tbh) when people got somewhat interested in it. The number of votes you were having when he unvoted is irrelevant.

Mm vote counts are irrelevant, you need context actually to determine that.

[Rels]

I don't care Rels, if you wanna perceive/put it that way then you do. But i literally don't care because i am not doing that.
Lynch me then, i dare you!

Sure. You didn't hint at me being mafia at aaaaaaalll before that post.
Challenge accepted

[Rels]

lol cass

[Rels]

rels im withholding comment on atm except to wave vaguely at softballed questions and easy-mode townreads again

What townreads did you find "easy-mode" ?

hapa

he barely fought back just sort of waved wildly in some other direction and youre like "pretty sure hapa is town too" after scumreading him for "blatant omgus" just a post or two beforehand (which is a damned weak reason to scumread someone btw)

so it's still valid even though I've gone back on it and are now scumreading it for several reasons ?

[Rels]

whats your take on the chances of hawk intentionally trying to tie himself to town!hapa

ive seen scum not at risk of a lynch do that from d1 just in case

that is what i mostly found compelling about ooo's argument ftr

What do you mean ? Nobody voted Hawk before the last day so how did he try to tie himself exactly ?

[Rels]

oh ok you mean tie as in make it seem like they're scum buddies

[Rels]

RL in the way today....still out and about now. I'll try to content tomorrow latest.

So ... ASAP ? ^^

[Rels]

BV your case is pretty awesome.

Compare the way Hawk is putting down his votes with the way he talks about Hap, almost like he knows Hap will flip scum. There are several points where he says that Hap is almost definitely scum.

This is the most important thing.

[Rels]

Rereading Hapa's filter everything I've said yesterday still stand:

yeah I wanna lynch Hapa. So many defense posts where he only came back to defend himself. Such a bad vote on Hawk when he was forced to. There is also the thing where he was logged in to the website when 1 day before the deadline but didn't post.

Well, he was prodded in this game at 9AM PST. At 9:45 or so, he posted in a different game but not here. If you look at his "search user posts." So, obviously he was online if he made any post at all.

Well he also was online until 30 minutes apparently:
"Last visited:Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:10 am"
For the comparaison it's 1:44 AM right now here

And he didn't believe in any lynch at all. Like, KidDamn was his main scumread, but he didn't really care about it. There is:
His case on him
Then he talks about him quite a lot until his revote on him:

KidDamn had an horrible defense against your case Hapa, then had 3 worthless posts since. Why are you not pushing him ?

I.
Don't.
Even.

VOTE: KidDamn

And after that it's over. He didn't fight for his lynch at all.

VOTE: Hapahauli

To add to the weak KidDamn read, there is a point where Hapa gets pushed by Cass, and reacts strongly to it, culminating to the point where he votes Cass.

It starts with this post. The vote is there.

It makes little sense. Like, he made a strong case against KidDamn; he's believing it very strongly (even saying stuff like "I think there's a chance that Fitz is just a really awkward poster. Not a large chance, but certainly more of a chance than KidAmn." in his Fitz case just below his KidDamn case); KidDamn reacted to it pretty poorly then left the thread; then he's being attacked by Cass - in his POV for reasons that are pretty bad.
It SHOULD mean to him that KidDamn is even more likely to be scum; it's more likely that he gets attacked for no reason if he's pushing Cass' partner than if his main scumread is a mislynch. KidDamn and Cass should make sense as a team there. Like me actually yesterday; I found out that OOO was super likely to be scum, and that strengthened my scumread on Hapa because they make sense as a team.

But he doesn't do that. He gives in to the OMGUS and votes Cass and starts fighting her. Hapa was missing the global view there. He wasn't looking for a team. If he was, he would have not unvoted KidDamn there. And let me remind you that Hapa is a fucking great town player.

+ the other things I've already said about him not pushing his main scumread.

[Rels]

Rels had some posts that i found out possibly coming from scum!Rels. Hapa wagon was gladly accepted by almost all of the players, so idk.. that probably makes him town? I have to look back and see who actually weren't willing to lynch Hapa and if that could mean something.

This is early D2. This is how OOO says he's gonna assess the situation about Hapa. And it makes sense. This is the thing to do. If Hapa lynch was accepted by everybody, then it's an indicator of Hapa being town.

Then it's said that the flipped scum actually was one of the dude NOT voting for Hapa but voting for every counter wagon available. So giving his reasonning above it should point at Hapa being scum more than Hapa being town. But that's not what happens. Actually the opposite happens; suddenly in OOO POV it makes more sense that Hawk never voted Hapa while scumreading him because he knew Hapa was town.
This lapse of logic doesn't make sense. Especially from OOO who is the most logical player I know of. This is OOO knowing that if his partner Hapa is lynched he has a very, very big chance of losing because of the setup; so he has to try SOMETHING to save his teammate.

[Rels]

Apparently Cass you're the one not reading. I'm using the term OMGUS there to say that he's only attacking Hapa because Hapa attacked him; and that his reasons to attack Hapa were stretched. With your mindset, NOBODY ever did an OMGUS then. Of course scum are always going to make up a reasonning when they OMGUS their attacker; so because they made up something, it's not OMGUS anymore ?
I've explained already why I thought KidDamn OMGUSed, and taht I didn't think his reason was good:

You call Kop your second strongest read and then follow it with a list of reasons he might not be scum, one of which is his posting style with bigass walls of text catchup, while criticising me for having a weak scum-read on Creature but admitting that part of my issue could just be his posting style

Do you not see the contradiction there

This in particular makes no sense. This looks like stretching to find reasons to OMGUS

He's explaining what I said.

What you said also made no sense. There is a difference between saying "X could be scum but also could be town doing this" and "I would be OK lynching X even though my only problem with him is his posting style, which I checked he uses as town"

So my reasonning was that since KidDamn only counterattacked Hapa after being attacked, and since it was for a reasonning I found bad, then KidDamn was OMGUSing. I still think his reasonning is wrong but I don't think he's scum anymore.

[Rels]

Like, no scum is ever gonna say "fuck you I'm voting you because you're voting me". They're always gonna invent reasons when they OMGUS. And I thought KidDamn reasons to scumread Hapa were bad.

[Rels]

maybe the term is used differently in this forum though. If you restrict it only to the people saying explicitely "Oh my god you suck I'm voting you" then it was not OMGUS. But then the term is kinda useless because it almsot never happens

[Rels]

to me at the time he appeared more like panicking scum who tried to find anything to counter attack than good reasonning. I now think I was wrong on that. I'm still right on the fact that the things he's comparing are not similar (KidDamn's Creature read and Hapa's Fitz read).
If you agree with all the reasons why are you not voting Hapa ?
And hi Hapa.

[Rels]

I'm not trying to end the phase early. I'm trying to see what you're thinking.

[Rels]

you didn't finish answering me yesterday too, about the "easy townreads" or whatever, who was basically just me townreading Hapa too easily D1. Apparently it's a big part of your scumread on me since my Hapa questionning D1 is also softballing questionning from your POV. What do you think of what I've said since the day started about Hapa ? Even before you voted me ?

[Rels]

It's not a defense, I don't need to defend myself TBH, I don't think I'm ever getting lynched this game. I have all the motivation in the world now. What I'm doing is that I'm trying to see your logic.

"even spent a lot of time in a scum!KidAmn world (which is bunk because i cant see a hapa/KidAmn team in a million years)"
That is precisely why I unvoted Hapa in the first place - so you thinking I unvoted Hapa until later, but also thinking it was scummy that I scumread KidDamn doesnt' make sense. It doesn't add up. I spent a lot of time in the scum!KidDamn world exactly because I was not seeing who could be partner with Hapa.

Furthermore, you're saying I'm bussing my partner Hapa, to get a mislynch after Hapa is lynched. You're forgetting something apparently. In this game scum can get killed during the night if their tager arms themselves. In that setup, bussing my partner D2 makes me lose the game 99% of the time.

[Rels]

Can somebody please summarize for me what is happening....

You don't have time to play ?

[Rels]

I do but at this point I really do not want to read 1690 posts.

Well then better replace out. There is no good summary, lots of things have happened.

[Rels]

It's not a defense, I don't need to defend myself TBH, I don't think I'm ever getting lynched this game. I have all the motivation in the world now. What I'm doing is that I'm trying to see your logic.

"even spent a lot of time in a scum!KidAmn world (which is bunk because i cant see a hapa/KidAmn team in a million years)"
That is precisely why I unvoted Hapa in the first place - so you thinking I unvoted Hapa until later, but also thinking it was scummy that I scumread KidDamn doesnt' make sense. It doesn't add up. I spent a lot of time in the scum!KidDamn world exactly because I was not seeing who could be partner with Hapa.

Furthermore, you're saying I'm bussing my partner Hapa, to get a mislynch after Hapa is lynched. You're forgetting something apparently. In this game scum can get killed during the night if their tager arms themselves. In that setup, bussing my partner D2 makes me lose the game 99% of the time.

distancing is not bussing
and i dont scumread you for being in the scum!KidAmn world after unvoting hapa, thats false

Then don't say it like that: " even spent a lot of time in a scum!KidAmn world (which is bunk because i cant see a hapa/KidAmn team in a million years) right up until that point...
...so your defense here is pretty weak tbh"

So basically you still scumread me for the way I interacted with Hapa D1. The rest is just storytelling around that fact. For example when you're describing why I would distance myself from Hapa now, it's storytelling; it's a nice story but it doesn't prove anything one way or the other. I can be scum distancing or town pushing his scumread.
That's fine though. If that's the only thing you have against me your read will change sooner or later. D1 is always my worst day.

[Rels]

meh. I wanted to read the thread tonight but I spent the evening playing Battlerite. See you tomorrow p:

[Rels]

Haha :)I knew it
For those who don't know in our forum this seal HAPA posted means scum giving up

[Rels]

Ooo is almost always scum there. Easy game. Never not Lynch him

[Rels]

Ooo should never be lost about HAPA s being maybe scum with the way he played. Plus all the shitty low jabs about me. Plus the assurance about fitz when HAPA played like that. Always scum

[Rels]

Hawk first big post was about doom. Almost never partner they are

[Rels]

+ doom s read being so all over the place is very hard to fake for a bad scum, which he is, his only other game was pretty bad

[Rels]

Only other scum game

[Rels]

Ooo is a very good scum. Very good. Doom and him cannot be judged on the same level. The "I'm OK being lynched if you Lynch fitz afterwards" ooo said for example, it is not worth any town Points. Very possible to do for ooo scum

[Rels]

Will be home in about 1 hour, we ll see if the game is locked or not then !

[Rels]

If it's locked and I die: always Lynch ooo. Always. He's scum. And he's a tryhard scum. Don't let him get away he's good. Always Lynch him. In the 0.1% chance I'm wrong we have 1 more mislynche anyway.

[Rels]

How good is outoforder as scum in general? How does he normally treat his partners?

He's a very good scum. See his last scum game. I'm on mobile so I can't link but HAPA posted a way to find games from our forum somewhere in his filter. About his partners he tries to not bus them usually. So in this setup where he repeated multiple times that bussing is pretty bad for scum, it's normal he tried his best to not bus. He's a very logical player

[Rels]

In his filter = in his iso

[Rels]

Okay, you just answered the first question. With outoforder, it's not his "okay with being lynched" post that I'm hesitating on. It's more that he was a driving force behind the early part of D1 in a way I've rarely seen from scum before. His later play and then D2 play eroded that townread a lot. He was all over Hap early in the game. Is that the kind of thing you've seen him fake before with a partner?

Yep no problem for him doing that as scum. The best way to read him is how he interacted with people. And the way he softly land blow on me, didn't scum read hapa when it was obvious when you know HAPA, and where he ignored Cass then was being nice to him d2 when he needed to buddy him is him being scum

[Rels]

Yeah doom/momo can be mafia.

I never bus. There is no way Hawk gets lynched D1 if i am scum here. You can be sure of that.

Because you had a lot of say in this Lynch right

[Rels]

K gotta go.see you in 1 hour if it's not locked!

[Rels]

Teamliquid mafia game database : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/3 ... a-database
CTRL + F with "raynpelikoneet"
His last scum game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/5 ... pelikoneet

[Rels]

Teamliquid mafia game database : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/3 ... a-database
CTRL + F with "raynpelikoneet"
His last scum game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/5 ... pelikoneet

We don't have sign up threads, the game only start a few posts after the start of page 2 on his filter.

[Rels]

VOTE: Creature

It's kind of ironic that I'm telling OOO to vote while forgetting to vote for anyone myself.

VOTE: Frederick E Campbell

who seems to be lurking at the moment.

Sorry, I'm putting less attention into this game rn.

You wrote on your wiki that that's a scumtell for you.

VOTE: Creature

Oh hi SlySly

Huh?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... to_Read_Me

Read the last sentence of paragraph 3.

You could say that just as easily as scum.

UNVOTE: Creature
VOTE: Frederick

outoforder, Rels, doomfeathers.

Let's fuse together to powertown this game.

I'm not convinced you're town, and I haven't read Rels yet. I'll help discuss, but I reserve the right to vote whoever I please.

I wish you people not voting would vote. I don't care if your the type of person who doesn't like to vote until you feel reaaal good about someone before voting them. Put your vote on the scummiest person so far already.

I'll consider what you've said.

But honestly, I think Aubrey's 222 seems a little to eager to end this day.
VOTE: Aubrey

Let's try to work as town anyways.

Do you mean you're scum, and you're trying to work as though you're town?

Wow.

In this post from a scum thread, Fredrick states that he as scum usually picks someone at random to question. Does this questioning fit that method? Could this be sloppy town, or is it more likely lazy scum?

Yeah, to some extent. This is only Fredrick's fourth game, and he doesn't appear to post much.

VOTE: hapahauli

Not really scummy. More less not-scummy.

Hang on, I think I've got a case.

VOTE: Kop

His posting tone seems bored and rather uncaring, which clashes strongly with his activity and content. I think he's scum trying to look town.

[boop]

VOTE: Fredrick

because I think he's lazy scum.

Uggggghhhh so yeah I thought that's what I saw. Doom really pings me because while he's been fairly active and has had good posts here and there a lot of it is pretty easy to fake as scum.

Doom flips his vote a lot with little actual say from himself on why or where or how. Particularly I find his vote against FEC just recently bothersome. You vote him for low content then give him benefit of being a newbie and not posting much then vote him again cause he's lazy scum? Naaaah dog lots of other people also fall under the low activity scummy feel than just FEC. Not that you don't point it out just you chose to focus here. Feels like low hanging fruit. He could be scum, but idk. posts are rather sporadic and feel very awkward like his interaction with creature early in the day, his questioning of the unvote just to post hey you said why two posts later so I get where some of the question of FEC comes from but I don't see why Doom votes Hapa for being not town enough, then Kop for case based off tone and activity (both of which are NAI) and back to Fred where you were before because he's lazy (despite you saying before) that he was new and doesn't post much from what you've dug out.

This post alone makes it quite unlikely that doom / Hawk are a team. Especially since it's Hawk's first game. It's his first serious psot and it's spending all this time on doom. Pretty unlikely partners jsut for taht

[Rels]

If scum had daytalk, we could make some hypothesis.

Outside of other things, this dumbtell makes Creature town like 75% of the time. UNLESS he is the kind of scum to do stuff like that. If not, fake dumbtells are quite rare 'cause it feels so dumb to do them as scum, so funnily enough they often come from town.

[Rels]

so yeah. Basically. Lynch OOO.

[Rels]

yep I townread creature before reading that dumbtell. That cemented the townread.
And ofc this is TL meta so I understand why yuo all are not as sure as me. But rayn would NEVER not be as least a little be doubtful about Fitz versus Hapa when Hapa played like that. It is not possible. And it makes total sense that he did that if he's scum => when Hapa dies he's very, very likely to be lynched at some point since we have lots of mislynches left + he can also die every time he kills someone if the target armed during that night. Best course of option there was to try and get a Fitz mislynch. It makes sense. It explains the nice psots to Cass, then the big case on Fitz that was targeted specifically at you BV.

[Rels]

OOO's Hapa read makes no sense if OOO is town.
OOO's Hapa read makes total sense if OOO is his partner.

[Rels]

How he treated Cass when Cass was voting him:

And yeah, cassielle literally yelled for the last three pages that "we cannot lynch anyone but hapa" (which was simply untrue), "if we however do we end up on town" (which was simply untrue), then voted for her townread Hawk (which is quite dumb imo - especially considering what she said before), and then, before the flip blamed all the world for lynching a townie and offered rope for the dude who lead a lynch on mafia (you think this makes sense?). Sooo... again i don't think i am far from truth when saying she was disruptive (because she was) and not making any sense (because she wasn't).

Again, this game is about convincing people to follow your lead by writing posts about people who are likely to be mafia. I do not think she is doing that. I do ignore those kind of people (unless i think they are mafia - which i don't think is the case here) because at best they are not helping town. I can't probably help you or her to understand me better since you take it personally when i express you are not playing very logically. I just state the things as they are. I also find it very hypocritical coming from you since YOU (and at least hapahauli and Rels) have definitely done the same exact thing you call ad hom here. But maybe you ad homing - if that's what you call it - is just better than me doing it....

But then when Cass is on his side:

i have thoughts on the rels/kidamn interaction going on but im saving them while i wait for the big damn mistake that's a-coming down the pipe
someone in this thread isnt paying attention and i won't say whooooo

Nah, that shit didn't fly D1, it doesnt fly now either.

if you mean me not talking about the interaction:
i am waiting on something to happen

if you mean me not talking about the person not paying attention:
theyre the one whos going to flub it and im waiting to see if its a townflub or a scumflub

talking about who im watching specifically defeats the purpose, they know they need to modify behavior
talking about the interaction itself makes both sides self-aware and feel exposed, which increases the chances they make a dumb move, which is the whole point
and talking about it in this weird circular way also increases those chances for the same reasons

that dumb move will tell me much more about them (especially the one im looking at the most) than most of the rest of their play will today

Beware though. People are gonna make a big fuzz about it for no reason and then start calling you scum when you explain because "you created a big mess". Trust me i know what i am talking about! I am interested in this though since it looks like you think you're onto something good. Hope it's something good.

Thanks for that though Cass.
So at post 888 we are looking at:

[L-4] Hapahauli - KidAmn, Creature, BlackVoid
[L-5] KidAmn - Rels, hapahauli
[L-5] Kop - Aubrey, doomfeathers
[L-5] Rels - Kop, Hawk
[L-6] doomfeathers - MooginSoosy
[L-6] havingfitz - outoforder

read a little further ahead, just after the vc where the rels wagon has 4 people on board -- hes saying he doesnt want a rels lynch today, he wants a hapa lynch d1, hes just pressing rels for (???? something about a lynch)

If this is true seems like he wasn't wanting to lynch Rels after all.. ^^

[Rels]

BV comes and say he's not unvoting Hapa:

I'm not unvoting Hap.
[...]

Then OOO makes a giant case directed at BV to make him change his mind: viewtopic.php?p=8957435#p8957435

Alright, here we go BlackVoid. I am going to hope you read this.

Not trying to change the mind of the town in KidDamn / Rels in his POV. Only BV. The one he KNOWS he must convince.

[Rels]

@Rels, the one thing stopping me from solidly townreading you is your reaction to Hap's cases on KidAmn, Fitz, and Kop D1. Can you explain what made you change your mind there?

I thought they were nice cases. And Hapa did the same thing last game I've played with him: he was super lackluster during half of D1, then came back with a nice case on a player nobody really suspected. In that game I didn't immediately townread him after that, but in retrospect I should have. So I thought it was a repeat of that. Link to what I'm talking about:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/5 ... age=25#483

[Rels]

Hapa coming back with a big case on KidDamn + fighting with KidDamn for a few posts and KidDamn getting emotionnal means they are very very likely to not be partners.

[Rels]

Okay thanks, I'll look it over when I get a bit more time later on. What do you think of outoforder and Hap's initial interaction D1? outoforder did start out launching a push on Hap which if he doesn't bus would be an outlier. He kept at it until he went V/LA. When he got back, he started on the Fitz push and never pushed Hap again though so that was weird.

Something he could do. As you said he spent the rest of the day being undecided. And I remember him unvoting Hapa for a weird reason actually that you might be remembering wrong.

UNVOTE: Hapahauli
Shit i have to reconsider this.

As town, I just post and worry about the consequences later. It's not always going to be consistent on the surface, because a lot of it is feelz, and it often moves too fast for me to justify every little thing I do.

Yes i had totally forgot about this. But when Rels brought up the game that ultimately brought me to this game i went back and read it again. That is true.
I am not entirely sure of you being town yet, but bugging you about something i feel like isn't gonna lead me anywhere is not productive rn. I mean if i continuously ask you for explanations you're not gonna be productive in case i am wrong. So please do your thing, we can discuss if you're scum or not later (for once, god bless two weeks dayphases:) ).

Yeah. That.
Althought he revoted him after I did:

And Hapa is still the best lynch. Just because we are not talking about him doesn't erase that.

I agree with this again.
In fact i agree with it this much:
VOTE: Hapahauli

OK yuo were right he then go into V/LA and unvoted Hapa after.

I am up to p27. Unfortunately the finnish wifi in trains is shit and i hought i would have a bit time yesterday despite hoing to visit friends outside my home country.

I am gonna finish catching up tonight and then gollow up on haps and i also got some questions for cassielle.

For now UNVOTE: hapahauli

[Rels]

also interesting:

if ooo ends up red d3, it will be the third game on this site where only scum have said that my posts make no sense

3/4 is a good track record when it comes to choosing an early target, i might keep it

lol I also said that p:

[Rels]

TBH your style is effective at getting reaction.

[Rels]

alright boys and girls gonna go to sleep soon. If you still have a question shoot it now p:

[Rels]

Yeah, before you go, what's your read on Kop?

Bad. But HAPA coming back and trying to sway you into voting him makes them somewhat unlikely partners.

[Rels]

You're dumb Rels. After this game at least never try to claim you can read me. ^^

Cause you didn't make 20 posts this game calling me scum right

[Rels]

Yeah OOO is 99% scum. Nobody else makes this kill.
I wanna reread the game before committing to that though

[Rels]

Yeah OOO is 99% scum. Nobody else makes this kill.
I wanna reread the game before committing to that though

fuck you. then lynch me, i will 1v1 and make sure you're lynched the day after you idiot.
you cannot fucking think like that.

Explain, why do i make the kill?

Cause you're in a bad spot and that's the only way to victory. Conventional kill always gets you lynched with 3 lynches available. And bad night kills very often comes from scum that are in a bad spot.

[Rels]

haha. Fight me bro

[Rels]

Yeah OOO is 99% scum. Nobody else makes this kill.
I wanna reread the game before committing to that though

fuck you. then lynch me, i will 1v1 and make sure you're lynched the day after you idiot.
you cannot fucking think like that.

Explain, why do i make the kill?

Cause you're in a bad spot and that's the only way to victory. Conventional kill always gets you lynched with 3 lynches available. And bad night kills very often comes from scum that are in a bad spot.

Explain "Conventional kill always gets you lynched with 3 lynches available"?
Explain why you are not mafia with "bad night kills very often comes from scum that are in a bad spot"?

Why am I in a bad spot ?

[Rels]

because 2 mafia have died. if you're mafia you're just as in a bad spot than i am if i am mafia.

By that logic every single player in the game is in a bad spot. And from all of these players you are the one with the worst spot.

[Rels]

lol you don't make sense bro.
Why didn't you see that Hapa was super scummy D2 ? What was that thing he did that he never does as scum that you mentionned somewhere ?

[Rels]

Why do i shoot a mislynch?
Also; explain "Conventional kill always gets you lynched with 3 lynches available"?

It means what it means. With the reads everyone had at the end of D2, especially from BV who's thread leader, you were the most likely lynch just talking about D3; very very small chance you survive the whole game.

[Rels]

and "why do I shoot a mislynch ?" is a bad question. Since it can be applied to everyone left alive. And one person in that group is scum. So it doesn't work.

[Rels]

lol you don't make sense bro.
Why didn't you see that Hapa was super scummy D2 ? What was that thing he did that he never does as scum that you mentionned somewhere ?

Because i didn't have time and i was fucking bad to think he would be town for being someone all the players wanted to lynch.
I am terrible in games with retarded scumteams. Sorry for that.

yeah but what was the tell you talked about. Or did you not talk about that ? I'll check

[Rels]

Should have trusted the you-never-do-this-read at the atart of the game.

Oh I misread that, thought you said the opposite there.

[Rels]

and "why do I shoot a mislynch ?" is a bad question. Since it can be applied to everyone left alive. And one person in that group is scum. So it doesn't work.

NO IT CAN'T!!!!

Why ? Why can't it be applied to everyone left alive ?

[Rels]

and "why do I shoot a mislynch ?" is a bad question. Since it can be applied to everyone left alive. And one person in that group is scum. So it doesn't work.

NO IT CAN'T!!!!

Why ? Why can't it be applied to everyone left alive ?

because if i am lynched you have fitz/momo/(Kop) here.
Cassielle is suspected by BV. If we add her there then wow... there are plenty of lynches.

????
I'm saying Kop is a potential mislynch for anyone, no matter who is scum. So saying "why do I shoot a mislynch" is not a defense since everyone can say that.

[Rels]

Can you jsut fucking read the thread and then make me angry instead of just making me angry Rels?

yep but slowly since I'm working. I'll be rereading the thread gradually over the day.

[Rels]

and "why do I shoot a mislynch ?" is a bad question. Since it can be applied to everyone left alive. And one person in that group is scum. So it doesn't work.

NO IT CAN'T!!!!

Why ? Why can't it be applied to everyone left alive ?

because if i am lynched you have fitz/momo/(Kop) here.
Cassielle is suspected by BV. If we add her there then wow... there are plenty of lynches.

????
I'm saying Kop is a potential mislynch for anyone, no matter who is scum. So saying "why do I shoot a mislynch" is not a defense since everyone can say that.

SO YOUR CONCLUSION IS "99% SURE OOO MAKES THIS KILL AND NOONE ELSE"?????????????????????????????????????????????

well that is YOUR logic not mine. I'm attacking your defense there.

[Rels]

And I'm 99% sure you make the kill BECAUSE I was 99% sure you were scum before and it makes sense that you make a WIFOM kill in your spot. Not the other way around buddy

[Rels]

rekt

[Rels]

haha you don't even make sense =D

The real reason why I think OOO is the most likely to make that kill:

Yeah OOO is 99% scum. Nobody else makes this kill.
I wanna reread the game before committing to that though

fuck you. then lynch me, i will 1v1 and make sure you're lynched the day after you idiot.
you cannot fucking think like that.

Explain, why do i make the kill?

Cause you're in a bad spot and that's the only way to victory. Conventional kill always gets you lynched with 3 lynches available. And bad night kills very often comes from scum that are in a bad spot.

What OOO is quoting is an attack of his defense:

Why do i shoot a mislynch?

I'm saying Kop is a potential mislynch for anyone, no matter who is scum. So saying "why do I shoot a mislynch" is not a defense since everyone can say that.

[Rels]

Again:

And I'm 99% sure you make the kill BECAUSE I was 99% sure you were scum before and it makes sense that you make a WIFOM kill in your spot. Not the other way around buddy

[Rels]

oh you wanna wifom, i will fucking wifom you.
Lynch me and lycnh Rels. Or the other way around. Idc.

You just gave out your scum motive. ^^

I gotta say, nice try (= it's impressive that you're still trying in that position.

[Rels]

I will hammer myself if at L-1

Just lynch Rels the next day.

BV, read this. Please consider on what you read on his posts.

Typical p:

[Rels]

@Rels, give me a link to an outoforder game where he did something similar to this.

I have no idea if that exists, I said that because when we're in a game together we almost always fight at some point, regarldess of alignments p:

[Rels]

@Rels, give me a link to an outoforder game where he did something similar to this.

@outoforder, what is Rels' motivation to 1v1 you with three lynches to go? He could have easily pretended to "re-evaluate" on the basis of the kill, get in a Fitz mislynch, maybe get in another mislynch and then go after you, especially with you townreading him. Also, what happened to your previous analysis that Rels' never busses Hap in the way he did?

If he survives long enough he has to do something. I don't fucking know. He is doing dumb shit he isn't supposed to do. He has to be mafia though if this is the conclusion he arrives at after reading the thread. Always.

How so ? What should have make me change my mind about you in this thread ?

[Rels]

@Rels, give me a link to an outoforder game where he did something similar to this.

I have no idea if that exists, I said that because when we're in a game together we almost always fight at some point, regarldess of alignments p:

when have i fought you when i was mafia?

Have I ever played you when you were scum ?
Oh yeah in the personality game. You wanted me dead. I managed to turn the lynch around on you. ^^
I was talking about SOTW where we fought violently and I was scum, and Really Small Mafia II where we also fought and I was town.

@Rels, give me a link to an outoforder game where he did something similar to this.

@outoforder, what is Rels' motivation to 1v1 you with three lynches to go? He could have easily pretended to "re-evaluate" on the basis of the kill, get in a Fitz mislynch, maybe get in another mislynch and then go after you, especially with you townreading him. Also, what happened to your previous analysis that Rels' never busses Hap in the way he did?

If he survives long enough he has to do something. I don't fucking know. He is doing dumb shit he isn't supposed to do. He has to be mafia though if this is the conclusion he arrives at after reading the thread. Always.

How so ? What should have make me change my mind about you in this thread ?

go read the fucking thread.

I did. I'm caught up, I'm rereading the whole game now.

[Rels]

I forgot KidDamn was Hapa's first target. That cements my read of KidDamn not being partner with Hapa, which was based on Hapa attacking hard KidDamn when he got back in the middle of D1, then KidDamn reacting emotionally getting mad and leaving the thread.

[Rels]

Why the fuck do you care about KidAmn if you're 100% sure i am mafia?

lol grasping at straws I think
Because I'm never 100% and because I'm rereading the game and I found this interesting enough to make a post about it

[Rels]

You sure? You are though:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/5 ... e=162#3222

First, so ? You're pushing the argument that I lied about this sentence "I'm never 100%" ? How does that make me scum ?
Second, I was scum in that game so it doesn't even work. p:

[Rels]

Also incorrect, i was Hapa's first target.
I say target because you were scumreading him because he said "target" and you considered target (without aposthrophes).

You were not. He voted you for one post:

Hey Rels, when you're around, let me know what you think of the MooginSoosy post.

Why aren't you asking me about it?

VOTE: outoforder

UNVOTE:
VOTE: KidAmn

Yeah no. You do not get to call the early situation a "clusterfuck" and then throw fuel on the fire.

And said it was a random vote:

doomfeathers does anything else stick out to you other than me atm?

If hapahauli thought you were scum, and knew you don't respond to pressure as scum, why would he pressure you? By your logic, you should be scumreading him.

Right. I also have 14 irl days to make a decision. Right now (as per my last post) his explanation is not satisfying at all.

What more of an explanation is there? I looked at the thread, saw a few votes on you, and thought "lel imma gonna vote him."

[Rels]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/4 ... e=183#3658

shooo... debunked ^^

again .... so ? p:

[Rels]

It's not an argument. Why would I try to lie about that ? How does that make me scum ?
And I'm never 100% sure when I'm town. Even when I'm saying I am. I always doubt and think until the flips.

[Rels]

yep. Grasping p:

[Rels]

I am literally being a dick to you and will be until you either lynch me or change your opinion because you're being a retard rn.

Well you pushing me for a contradiciton that doesn't exist + me saying I'm never 100% sure and you quoting a post where I say I'm 100% sure doesn't help your case bro

[Rels]

I am literally being a dick to you and will be until you either lynch me or change your opinion because you're being a retard rn.

Well you pushing me for a contradiciton that doesn't exist + me saying I'm never 100% sure and you quoting a post where I say I'm 100% sure doesn't help your case bro

boooooo i am not even pushing you, i just said i am just being a dick because youre fucking dumb atm. :p

well then it's even worse, it's subtile stuff like you did to me in D2. "I'm not saying you're scum but ......."

[Rels]

good then lynch me so you have the privilege of being the only townie i voted all game.

ok.
What should have make me change my mind in your posts D3 ?

[Rels]

How are you eliminating Allomancer's replacement?

Stupid tired post while I was forgetting that that was who Hawk was replacing. Please ignore.

mm another thing in favor of doom being town => dunno if he forgets who his partners replaces if he's scum. That would basically has to be faked if doom was scum, and dumbtells that HAS to be faked to be coming from scum often comes from town.

[Rels]

good then lynch me so you have the privilege of being the only townie i voted all game.

ok.
What should have make me change my mind in your posts D3 ?

I thought you read the thread?
If there is nothing then i can't say anything about it.

What did you have in mind when you said "He has to be mafia though if this is the conclusion he arrives at after reading the thread." ?

[Rels]

@Rels, give me a link to an outoforder game where he did something similar to this.

@outoforder, what is Rels' motivation to 1v1 you with three lynches to go? He could have easily pretended to "re-evaluate" on the basis of the kill, get in a Fitz mislynch, maybe get in another mislynch and then go after you, especially with you townreading him. Also, what happened to your previous analysis that Rels' never busses Hap in the way he did?

If he survives long enough he has to do something. I don't fucking know. He is doing dumb shit he isn't supposed to do. He has to be mafia though if this is the conclusion he arrives at after reading the thread. Always.

[Rels]

The night kill

I don't conclude you're scum from the NK though. I had that conclusion before the NK and the NK is logical with it. So how does that make sense ?

[Rels]

Yeah OOO is 99% scum.

Nobody else makes this kill.

I wanna reread the game before committing to that though

Yep as said that strengthened even more my scumread on you. Because this kill is more likely to come from someone in a bad spot - which you are. But my scumread was already super strong even before that. That was actually the reason why I voted Hapa D2 - because I saw you as the only possible partner.

[Rels]

And LOL at "I'm never gonna try to convince everyone anymore" . Sure rayn, sure. ^^

haha p:

[Rels]

lol you're annoying.
"Kop is a potential mislynch for anyone" => you can't use that as a defense. It's not the argument why OOO is the most likely to make the kill.
"Kop is a very weird kill, very weird kills very usually come from people in a bad spot, OOO is in the worst spot in the game" => that is why OOO is the most likely to make the kill.

[Rels]

That's not what you're saying though, or well that's not what your posts say at least.

yes it is exactly what my posts are saying

[Rels]

I'm saying Kop is a potential mislynch for anyone, no matter who is scum. So saying "why do I shoot a mislynch"

is not a defense

since everyone can say that.

It's even in the quote.

[Rels]

Rels if youre town this game and cannot realize i am not mafia after Kop kill i will shoot you whenever i get vigi :p
Seri-fucking-ously man??????????????????? I don't even wanna argue about this shit.

lynch rels + fitz = win the game 100% ggnore.

Why you specifically won't shoot Kop ? Why Fitz or I are more likely to shoot Kop than you ?

[Rels]

To those of you doubting Cass: starting with this post Hapa has a big attack on Cass. Pretty harsh posts to get people to scumread her. Hard posts to make as partners as scum, and Hapa is not a good scum.

[Rels]

Rels if youre town this game and cannot realize i am not mafia after Kop kill i will shoot you whenever i get vigi :p
Seri-fucking-ously man??????????????????? I don't even wanna argue about this shit.

lynch rels + fitz = win the game 100% ggnore.

Why you specifically won't shoot Kop ? Why Fitz or I are more likely to shoot Kop than you ?

read my filter.

Didn't find a good reasoning. I found that you said you endgamed yourself with that kill while Fitz didn't for some reason, but this is only a story. If Fitz is scum he lost a mislynch he could get. If you're scum you lost a mislynch you could get. Just because someone doesn't scumread Kop doesn't mean he doesn't wish for his mislynch.

[Rels]

lol you're annoying.
"Kop is a potential mislynch for anyone" => you can't use that as a defense. It's not the argument why OOO is the most likely to make the kill.
"Kop is a very weird kill, very weird kills very usually come from people in a bad spot, OOO is in the worst spot in the game" => that is why OOO is the most likely to make the kill.

[Rels]

Yeah OOO is 99% scum. Nobody else makes this kill.
I wanna reread the game before committing to that though

You literally stated it here so start explaining it to everyone please.
I am off for reals now.

Well it's not like I answered taht 2 posts below.
Wait.

Yeah OOO is 99% scum. Nobody else makes this kill.
I wanna reread the game before committing to that though

fuck you. then lynch me, i will 1v1 and make sure you're lynched the day after you idiot.
you cannot fucking think like that.

Explain, why do i make the kill?

Cause you're in a bad spot and that's the only way to victory. Conventional kill always gets you lynched with 3 lynches available. And bad night kills very often comes from scum that are in a bad spot.

[Rels]

I am gonna quote that cassiole or whatever her name was thing when i get home. Just boarded my flight and i am taking the train back home.

Btw Rels is lying, he wasnt in NZ.
But i kniw thats not alignment indicative because french people cannot get the difference between NZ and NL.

(Sorry i had to do that Rels)

haha ^^

[Rels]

and "Conventional kill always gets you lynched with 3 lynches available" doesnt make any sense
and i ma not bad

So you disagree with the assesment that you were the most likely dude to be lynched D3 taking account everyone's read when D2 ended ?

[Rels]

what has that to do with Kop kill?

You said:

and "Conventional kill always gets you lynched with 3 lynches available" doesnt make any sense

Why ?

[Rels]

ohhhhh.. i am sorry i didn't know what conventional means.
rofl so you are arguing the opposite of what you should?

Reason me you fuckface. How do i win if i shoot Kop?

As said before it is not a defense. Killing Kop was an objectivally bad move for everyone. So Kop was not killed because that would make the game easier to win for the last scum. So it has to be another reason for Kop's kill.
I think that reason is making people re evaluate because of a weird kill. If that's true, then the most likely dude to do that shot is someone in a bad spot. You are in the worst spot in the game => the kill points at you.

[Rels]

I am going to stay fucking awake after you tell me this because i wont let this go, as i said you awoken the beast. And i am mad, because you're an idiot rn, or mafia. And i wanna know which one. So FUCKING please, elaborate!

We spent 3 pages talking about it. The answer has already been written. I don't see how you can defend that YOU are town because of the Kop kill. It is the very definition of a WIFOM kill.

[Rels]

ohhhhh.. i am sorry i didn't know what conventional means.
rofl so you are arguing the opposite of what you should?

Reason me you fuckface. How do i win if i shoot Kop?

As said before it is not a defense. Killing Kop was an objectivally bad move for everyone. So Kop was not killed because that would make the game easier to win for the last scum. So it has to be another reason for Kop's kill.
I think that reason is making people re evaluate because of a weird kill. If that's true, then the most likely dude to do that shot is someone in a bad spot. You are in the worst spot in the game =>

the kill points at you.

That's super bad reasoning.
Where did the "Nobody else makes this kill." go?

How is that bad reasonning ?
"Nobody else makes that kills" was the feeling I had. The above is the explanation of that feeling.

[Rels]

Okay Rels. Let me ask you this:

How strong would you say my mafia play is?
Let's say it's a scale from 0 -100.

75.

[Rels]

Okay Rels. Let me ask you this:

How strong would you say my mafia play is?
Let's say it's a scale from 0 -100.

75.

ok, what does that conclude to?
like good play or bad play or what?

100 is best scum player ever (bugs) and 0 is marv

[Rels]

Fitz's defense of Hawk EOD1 is pretty bad.

[Rels]

Okay Rels. Let me ask you this:

How strong would you say my mafia play is?
Let's say it's a scale from 0 -100.

75.

ok, what does that conclude to?
like good play or bad play or what?

100 is best scum player ever (bugs) and 0 is marv

so you're saying i made a terrible scumplay here while being at 75?
How?

Well as said above you didn't make a terrible play if you're scum. With 2 mislynches left and lots of players scumreading you you made the WIFOM play.

[Rels]

AFK grabbing some lunch, see you after that

[Rels]

Okay Rels. Let me ask you this:

How strong would you say my mafia play is?
Let's say it's a scale from 0 -100.

75.

ok, what does that conclude to?
like good play or bad play or what?

100 is best scum player ever (bugs) and 0 is marv

so you're saying i made a terrible scumplay here while being at 75?
How?

Well as said above you didn't make a terrible play if you're scum. With 2 mislynches left and lots of players scumreading you you made the WIFOM play.

And why am i scum?

lol this is circular
You're not scum only because of the NK. You were scum for other reasons, and because of that, because you were super scummy, the Kop kill makes sense coming from you. Not hte other way around.

[Rels]

Heading off to bed. It's 5AM my time. Hopefully Momo sees the new pages, gets discouraged and replaces out and someone good replaces in.

Quick question before I go, @Rels, why does it take you so long after daystart to start posting?

lol I dunno p: I don't have the same motivation at start of the day. Maybe because the nights are silent are pretty long.
It also depends of IRL, for example yesterday I had tons of work to do during the day and I played Zelda the whole evening.

[Rels]

496 @Rels...I've never seen someone not able to get replaced. it could take a few days but I do not see the mod doing anything to that slot.

Speaking of the mod...he hasn't logged in since Monday so he may have already got some offers to replace Fred.

And a votecount would be nice mod...

498 @Rels...when I read a game and see posts that have me nodding in agreement or feel as though they are like minded to what I am thinking I typically assign a town read to that person. I have seen more posts like that from KidAdm than I haven't. My two catch up walls should point to several Kid posts that I got a good feel from.

As the game progresses and we get flips...and more content is provided my reads are of course subject to change. As an example...I like Kop for the same reasons as I do Kid. But I think your post /case towards Kop has some good observations. So while I would not be interested in a Kop lynch atm over the players I find more suspect...I would say you have tarnished my read on him slightly. Also...the fact that two of my townreads are voting him (Kop) is annoying.

As for the players I do suspect...it is a tossup between the three of them.

I haven't like Aubrey for much of this game because of his lazy perch on me. When I am town, players who are coming at me are naturally going to warrant my attention (OMGUS bedamned). And while I can respect suspicions towards me if I think they are genuine, Aubrey however has been parked on me the entire game for extremely weak (and misplaced) reasons. I also think there is a good chance that at least one scum is a more active player who will try to push the game to meet their agenda vice sitting back and hoping things work out their way. Aubrey fits this line of thought. And the fact that he is generally being town read afaict makes no difference, even in his own opinion. That said...I do not think an Aubrey vote would not gain traction.

Creature is suspect because he is all over the place. He entered the game very reluctant to provide any legitimate responses and/or blew off questions. He has expressed a willingness to vote "almost" anyone. His flips in opinion on me (and his buddy Aubrey) have come seemingly out of nowhere and I fail to see any pro-town content coming from him.

hapa is suspect because 1) a town read for me (Rel) and a TBD for me but generally townread OoO both appear extremely confident in their suspicions of hapa. For more gut I would say than solid fact but familiarity does deserve consideration. I also really dislike the way hapa eased on to my wagon in support of the Aubrey (crap) suspicions towards me and then seemed to backtrack on the crux of Aubrey's case (my questions) and say it wasn't any particular questions more so than that multiple people had issue with them. Oh...and that I ironically warned OoO against wall posting in my wall post.

I think I weigh all of my suspects about the same...but I think hapa has the best chance of being the D1 lynch. My alternative to hapa would probably be Creature.

VOTE: hapahauli

Well that probably put an end to an Hapa / Fitz team

oh yeah that's still a big indicator against Hapa / Fitz being partners

[Rels]

it was just after Hapa came back with big cases too, while he had several votes on him. Makes 0 sense to push + vote him at that point if they're together

[Rels]

Rels had some posts that i found out possibly coming from scum!Rels. Hapa wagon was gladly accepted by almost all of the players, so idk.. that probably makes him town? I have to look back and see who actually weren't willing to lynch Hapa and if that could mean something.

This is early D2. This is how OOO says he's gonna assess the situation about Hapa. And it makes sense. This is the thing to do. If Hapa lynch was accepted by everybody, then it's an indicator of Hapa being town.

Then it's said that the flipped scum actually was one of the dude NOT voting for Hapa but voting for every counter wagon available. So giving his reasonning above it should point at Hapa being scum more than Hapa being town. But that's not what happens. Actually the opposite happens; suddenly in OOO POV it makes more sense that Hawk never voted Hapa while scumreading him because he knew Hapa was town.
This lapse of logic doesn't make sense. Especially from OOO who is the most logical player I know of. This is OOO knowing that if his partner Hapa is lynched he has a very, very big chance of losing because of the setup; so he has to try SOMETHING to save his teammate.

such bad logic coming from OOO trying to get people to townread Hapa. Rereading the arguments we had during D2 it's was really fucking bad

[Rels]

I believe Rels never shoots Kop here and he has consistently scumreading Hapa and ACTUALLY pushed his lynch. I have my theory on why Kop was killed and Rels doesnt fit there as mafia.

This post feels like he's setting me up for changing my mind or attacking me if I still scumread him after the Kop kill. Like "Rels is never mafia making that shot 'cause Rels is good scum!" then gets modifier in "OOO is never mafia making that shot 'cause OOO is good scum!" He's having a position that basically force me to either not scumread him (if I agree with his logic) or give an opportunity to attack me (if I don't).

[Rels]

which is what happened

[Rels]

Like, in OOO's mind start of D3 I was NEVER scum. He had been pushing the idea that I was never scum with Hapa for a long time, example:

Alright. You literally suggested that that two of Rels, hapahauli and me are mafia.
That doesn't make any sense since - as you have YOURSELF said before, bussing makes very very little sense in this setup. That is something i agree on.

Now let's imagine that you are actually right and two of us three are mafia. Why on earth did our scumbuddy Hawk get lynched???? Do you seriously think that regardless of which two of us are mafia, we wouldn't have tried (and tbh totally succeeded) to push the lynch towards Aubrey, Kop, or hell just get a no-lynch??? You seriously have to think we are the dumbest scumteam i have ever seen (especially in a setup where if you happen to shoot a wrong dude one of your teammates die). It makes literally no sense and combination of two from us three is the remaining pair of mafia. I am not sure how closely you had read the thread but all of us were online at varying times when the lynch was decided.

- If i am mafia why do i strongly defend Aubrey? If i am mafia why don't i latch on Kop when i could have easily done that?
- If Hapahauli is mafia why doesn't he latch on Aubrey and just disagree with the case on Hawk? He could have easily done that. If he is mafia why doesn't he just vote fitz with me (to make the lynch most likely end up in no-lynch)? If Hapahauli is mafia why doesn't he just make up reasons for suspecting Kop and go for that lynch instead, when he could have easily done that?
- If Rels is mafia why does he just vote for Hawk when BlackVoid says so? (hint: if i was in a team with Rels there is literally zero chance he would have done that) It is true that Rels' vote is quite baffling since i can't really tell where his mind actually changes in him putting down the vote.

Now i could understand if you thought one of the three of us was bussing. But no, you think both of Hawk's teammates were bussing him to death without even really trying to make anything else happen. I am not sure which kind of mafia play you are familiar with but that is just retarded mafia play in my opinion, and i know i won't - and likely Rels won't let that happen. Especially if we are, as you suggest, in a team with Hapahauli (or with each other), who we both are familiar with. If i am mafia i will always try to get the whole team to the same page in scumchat and make sure our team has a strategy - that strategy is never "bus a partner and defend all the possible town mislynches on D1", because it's a bad strategy.

Furthermore, and i will only tell this once more, the only reason you seem to be coming to your conclusion is because you don't like the people you are "suspecting". You have not given any real reasons for suspecting us. At least i know the reasons you laid out for suspecting me are complete bullshit because you are either calling something that is never alignment indicative scummy, or blatantly making something i have said to mean what you want it to mean - not what it actually means. You also know that not all of us three can possibly be mafia, yet you are calling all of us out for what seems to be "i dont like how this guy plays". I am sorry if it doesn't fit to your world that all of us three play is based on logic and scumreads usually based on leaps of logic. If we call something that is illogical illogic that is not an attack towards the person, that's there to say "it doesn't make any sense". It never crossed your mind that focusing on the above can just be a playstyle thing, ESPECIALLY SINCE YOU KNOW AT LEAST ONE OF US HAS TO BE TOWN.

It's like you're living in a different world and when someone proves you a different world, you completely dismiss the possibility of it still existing....
And again, i am not trying to be a dick towards you cassielle, i am just saying that if this is the logic you are going to use this game i don't really see a point in using my time to convince you of anything, or argue with you about anything, because we are coming from a completely different place and arguing with you doesn't do ANYTHING, it cannot possibly help in any way regardless of what i say in case you don't understand what i am saying.

There, that was the last time i am gonna touch this issue. You can keep voting for me all you want and i wont fucking care. But as long as you are not willing to take part in a conversation that actually has any logic in it, i really don't see much point in joining the conversation you're trying to push forward.

And he re iterated it start of D3:

Rels is always town. No way he is mafia with Hapa.
I am trying to ask something from momom which would give me a better read on him. Doom looked town to me.

I believe Rels never shoots Kop here and he has consistently scumreading Hapa and ACTUALLY pushed his lynch. I have my theory on why Kop was killed and Rels doesnt fit there as mafia.

Now he thinks I'm lock town start of D3 right ? End of D2 I stated very clearly than I was quite sure that the team was Hapa / OOO. Hapa flipped scum. If I'm town coming into D3 what should I think ? Since Hapa flipped scum, OOO should be my natural scumread, if I'm being consistent ?
But when I enter the thread saying OOO is scum and that the Kop kill is logical with it, OOO attacks me; because in his POV the Kop kill makes OOO town. That doesn't make sense. First, why would I change my scumread over a NIGHT KILL ? Over something that only scum has control of ? Second, he wasn't to explain WHY Fitz or anyone else was more likely to do a WIFOM shot than him. But he still attacked me for it. Sneakily attacked me too, since he rescinded it after; but continuing to call me dumb or scum.

I think OOO tried to coerce me into townreading me over this logic: good scum player wouldn't have shot Kop. If I had agreed with this logic, I would townread OOO. If I disagreed with that logic, suddenly OOO has an angle of attack on me.

[Rels]

99% sure OOO is the last scum.
- his read on Hapa D2 is the strongest thing against him. At no point did it make sense coming from OOO, who is extremely logical. Hapa not voting Hawk but voting every other counter wagon available => OOO concludes this makes Hapa town, and insinuates it makes me scum. It only makes sense coming from scum!OOO who is trying to not lynch his partner.
- the fact that he was looking to lynch Fitz at all costs D2 shows in his interactions with the thread, in particular with Cass and BV. See these posts : Link 1 Link 2 Link 3
- the way he sneakily pushed me D2 and D3. D2 he had posts pushing the idea I was scum, but denied doing them: See this post. For D3, see the post I just made.
- the Kop NK. It was a bad kill for anyone. So the reason Kop was killed was NOT because it would give an objectivelly good advantage to the last scum. So the kill was WIFOM. WIFOM kills are usually made by scum in a bad spot. OOO was the one looking to be lynched when D2 started: scumread by the majority of the thread, in particular by BV, thread leader and lock town.

VOTE: outoforder

[Rels]

when D3* started

[Rels]

Checking in.

Was without power most of yesterday due to blizzard in New England and digging out from 12+ inches of snow this morning. Have not read anything since my last post. Will try to catch up today.

The hype for your posts is always there.

Hello, wassup?

What do y'all wanna ask me.

How many games are you playing right now ?

[Rels]

lol you got lynched as JK

[Rels]

well I got interrupted in the middle so the rest will have to wait. But I've seen two games where momo has flipped, one scumgame where he had 241 posts (lynched D3) and one town game where he had 56 (lynched D4). So at the very least activity is not a scumtell from him. Leaving work, see you later (=
Scum game: viewtopic.php?p=8979248#p8979248
Town game: viewtopic.php?p=8966258#p8966258

[Rels]

@Rels, what do you think of outoforder and Hap discussing reads D1 and going over their disagreement of Fitz and Aubrey? Start reading from 1191 onwards. Interactions seem too genuine for mafia to have. I also thought the way Hap reacted to outoforder at the beginning of the game looked like scum walking on eggshells around a townie as opposed to two scum distancing although that entire interaction was in the span of some 24 hours so I'm not sure I can read much into it. Slightly uneasy here so I want to double-check all other possibilities first.

Both of these are entirely possible as partners. The interactions is slightly town indicative I agree. But not hard to fake, especially since it's OOO leading the talk and he definitely can do stuff like that.

[Rels]

Rels what is your reasoning for townreading fitz?

he made a case on Hapa early. That is literally it. I don't find his play townie, his defense of Hawk EOD1 was bad, Hawk never talked about him but call his lynch "a diversion" or something lîke that, he voted Aubrey but didn't vote Hapa when Aubrey was not happening ... that's why I was thinking it was Hapa / Fitz at some point D2. But his case on Hapa early D1 is a strong town indicator and you were too illogical to not be scum.

[Rels]

I am gonna probably quit mafia again if i get lynched this game. When logic doesnt dictate a game of logical dedution its not a game for me anymore. Games were much better 3yrs ago. Idk whats with these new ppl, surely not logic...

meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

[Rels]

meh

[Rels]

bad ending to a good game.
UNVOTE: outoforder
VOTE: havingfitz

[Rels]

I don't think OOO ever types that as scum

[Rels]

Cass is conf town in my book. It's always Fitz or OOO for me. If not then there is something very wrong in my view of the game.

[Rels]

BV:

To those of you doubting Cass: starting with this post Hapa has a big attack on Cass. Pretty harsh posts to get people to scumread her. Hard posts to make as partners as scum, and Hapa is not a good scum.

[Rels]

I think these points at OOO being town too. OOO messing up BV and Hawk, who would be his partner if he was scum.

I dont think youre getting my point hawk.

Oh sorry as haek i meant BV.
BV who did you replace?

[Rels]

if she faked her emotional posts EOD1 then she's a pretty scary scum

[Rels]

yeah not saying it's impossible. I know I can do it as scum. But you gotta have a good scum game to do it. So I'll meta Cass when I have time

[Rels]

Momo has had literally 0 original thoughts this game. At this point PoE says Momo or Fitz, and since I'm not getting Momo

Vote Fitz

It is my understanding this is L-1. Claim.

Claim what ? p:

[Rels]

UNVOTE: havingfitz

[Rels]

I want more time. Fitz being lynched is like "I'm sad but you'll win tomorrow". OOO being lynched is like "I'll never play again" when Fitz is almost always the lynch tomorrow anyway so if he's right we win anyway. Makes me think OOO is the scum actually

[Rels]

5 to vote. You were not hammered.

[Rels]

5 to vote. You were not hammered.

D'oh...I saw all the L-4s and had 4 on the brain.

Any questions for me Rels?

not really. I'm debating if it's likely that you faked that reaaction when you thought you were hammered or not.
Like if you were scum, game is over right. So you wouldn't have posted that. So if you're scum, you knew for sure that you didn't get hammered but posted that to get townread. Seems complicated to me, especially given your low-stance this game.

[Rels]

lol Rels is not trying to gamesolve.

fuck you

[Rels]

VOTE: outoforder

[Rels]

lol Rels is not trying to gamesolve.

fuck you

Regardless of my affiliation you are really not.
If you are sure i am scum you shouldn't, but it doesn't change the fact you aren't.

I can't believe you are saying that when today has been the day where I've been doubting the most

[Rels]

Your "doubting" is based on something that is not alignment indicative for slightest. Calling me scum for incorrect reasons is not game-solving however much you want to say it is.

You said I'm not even trying to gamesolve, not that I'm succeeding at it.
You freaked out at me saying similar stuff in Really Small Mafia II and ruined the game. But since you've admitted that you can do that as scum then in your mind it must not be the same thing.

[Rels]

You freaked out at me saying similar stuff in Really Small Mafia II and ruined the game.

That was nothing similar, you wanted to CONCEDE as town!!!!!!!

so it isn't a town point for you anymore.
About Fitz, you're saying he faked saying he was hammered ?

[Rels]

Like Rels, i am pretty fucking close to do the same thing i did with Koshi in Neat and Tidy. I could point out a numerous inconsistencies in your filter and probably get you lynched after me just because i got fucking tilted with your bs...

lol you're the one talking ?

[Rels]

"OH YEAH HAPA VOTING EVERY WAGON BUT HAWK'S MEANS HE S PROBABLY TOWN"
"BUT WHY WOULD I KILL KOP ? ONLY I CANNOT KILL HIM"
"(D2) CANT SEE HAPA BEING SCUM OTHER THAN WITH CASS / CREATURE (D3) ACTUALLY ITS STILL FITZ"

[Rels]

Yes i am. My filter doesn't contain any inconsistencies however much you wanna look at it that way.
In a same way i can say your read on Fitz doesn't make any sense and you want to lynch me because if i am alive after this dayphase i WILL make sure the town lynches you ain LYLO after i flip (because that's what i will do).

yep I want to lynch you. I think you're scum.

[Rels]

"OH YEAH HAPA VOTING EVERY WAGON BUT HAWK'S MEANS HE S PROBABLY TOWN"

What are you atalking about i never said such a thing especially when i have fucking argued Hapa WOULDNT (as mafia) vote for Hawk...

BUT WHY WOULD I KILL KOP ? ONLY I CANNOT KILL HIM"

That's not what i said. I said i never kill him, i didn't say i am the ONLY one who cannot kill him.

"(D2) CANT SEE HAPA BEING SCUM OTHER THAN WITH CASS / CREATURE (D3) ACTUALLY ITS STILL FITZ"

Yeah i didn't. I somehow thought their votes (hapa-fitz) on D1 were much more TvM indicative than they were. And because i thought Hapa was town i didn't see the "scrub scumteam" (see the wagon on him on D1) that i see now.

Where the fuck are the inconsistencies you're talking about?

It's in my filter

[Rels]

Like rayn, if you're town you fucked up. Right there. You know I love you but that was not cool. I'm thinking about the fucking game all day and night. I'm thinking about the possiblities. About Cass. About Fitz. About you. Even some othjer weird shits that I don't really believe but consider anyway. But now, you're spitting on it. It's not right.
I think you're scum. I'm back to 99% sure, after that Fitz thought he was hammered and had a pretty townie post. And I also hope you're scum. Cause that post was not cool.

[Rels]

leaving work.

[Rels]

Like if i was calling you mafia i would make a case and summarize it into the thread instead of arguing with you why you are mafia....

lol the irony is fucking great ... because I did it .... and I just linked it to you:

"OH YEAH HAPA VOTING EVERY WAGON BUT HAWK'S MEANS HE S PROBABLY TOWN"

What are you atalking about i never said such a thing especially when i have fucking argued Hapa WOULDNT (as mafia) vote for Hawk...

BUT WHY WOULD I KILL KOP ? ONLY I CANNOT KILL HIM"

That's not what i said. I said i never kill him, i didn't say i am the ONLY one who cannot kill him.

"(D2) CANT SEE HAPA BEING SCUM OTHER THAN WITH CASS / CREATURE (D3) ACTUALLY ITS STILL FITZ"

Yeah i didn't. I somehow thought their votes (hapa-fitz) on D1 were much more TvM indicative than they were. And because i thought Hapa was town i didn't see the "scrub scumteam" (see the wagon on him on D1) that i see now.

Where the fuck are the inconsistencies you're talking about?

It's in my filter

[Rels]

UNVOTE: outoforder

[Rels]

I think I wanna lynch Cass actually

[Rels]

yeah. Not really free right now but I'll have time in a little while

[Rels]

Basically OOO is trying a lot for someone looking to be unable to win the game as scum. A whole lot. I think he can do it as scum also plays to win but IDK if he would try THAT hard. Yelling non stop etc. + the stuff BV posted about Hapa trying to get in OOO's head is actually nice.
Fitz has that thing where he thought he was hammered and didn't just give up, or post a GG post or whatever, and I have a hard time believing that was fake. It seems like needlessly complicated. + his first serious push was on Hapa.
The two of them are also basically tunneling each other. They're trying a lot for scum being on a very bad spot, having to fight to get 3 (!!) mislynches before them. Being OK being lynched to get the other lynched too. No long-term plan there. OFC this could be a play so others say exactly that, BUT it's different to Cass' posts. Cass is the one not trying at all, and having long term lynches. Cass basically already has her 3 next lynches lined up, ooo Fitz and I.

OoO has been the driving force behind the game so far, and that's incredibly difficult for mafia to fake. I've seen games where OoO was active and the lead poster as mafia, but noneso in a way as productive as this. In dealing with lurkers for example (Moogin, Kop, etc.), he's questioning them and trying to figure out their alignment rather than trying to actively discredit them.

I think this is the sort of read mafia give to townies rather than their buddies. There's also the entire interaction between Hap and outoforder at the beginning of the game that reads to me like Hap was walking on eggshells trying not to trip up outoforder. If they were scum together, I'd expect light distancing rather than Hap appeasing outoforder.

two things:
scum have daytalk
ooo is most likely an extremely high level scumplayer

however: fitz's case, while it did have solid parts, was pretty shifty
i say we go with ooo's gameplan: lynch him then fitz. i really highly scumread ooo and the threadcrapping increased that scumread astronomically. now, yeah, the content would arguably be anti-wincon as scum -- but he could be trying to WIFOM it up, and like, if this were any player whose scumplay might fall below "really good" i would say "never voting that slot" but beyond a certain level of scumplay even "super obvtown" stuff like that becomes subject to WIFOM

so my feeling is: call the bluff

and i can def agree with a d4 fitz wagon if ooo's lynch isnt a townwin. not feeling momo/doom wagon tbh

ooo could have coached hapa through it because of daytalk

and rels is still a scumread but hes about equal with fitz after fitz's case. the case had good chunks, yeah, but they were almost entirely pulled from my own past arguments vs ooo, or kidamn's quips against ooo (things like the misrep and discrediting players). the rest is crap, NAI, and/or baseless shadethrowing against ooo

that doesnt make him scum on its own, its just that (as you noted) this game is down to subtleties and fitz showed weak townplay there -- which is the best i got at this point for reading slots

Basically, Cass is acting today like I would expect the last scum to act: having a plan to get 3 mislynches but not trying a lot: and Fitz and OOO are not acting like that.

[Rels]

And Cass is not mafia for her D1 after BV made a case on Aubrey. Basically all the reactions she gave after that doesn't make any sense as mafia. Individually maybe, but as together, never.

if you're talking about her posts where she shit on BV after the Hawk case but before the flip, then I agree they were townie. But I know I could fake them. And there is no game I can compare her scumgame to, so I don't know if she can do it or not.

[Rels]

[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=8962482#p8962482]
both are good lynches in different ways. fitz is the better one but hapa's flip is, i think, indicative of fitz's alignment. so we indirectly catch scum on a town!hapa flip and we get a near-confirmed townie on a scum!hapa flip

i think hapa is indicative of fitz's alignment because fitz was pushing hapa for a lynch before i even replaced in on d1, and that wagon had momentum. no brakes were applied and requests for more votes were made -- scum wouldnt unprovoked-hard-bus that sort of way in this setup, but fitz has been a lot more cautious on most other wagons to come up

the opposite (fitz being alignment indicative for hapa) is NOT necessarily true i think (it would narrow possible worlds down more, however -- scum!fitz has two possible teams, scum!hapa has three)

p-edit damnit hammer[/quote]
yo Cass, I thought Fitz was gonna be near-confirmed town if Hapa flips scum ? Why are you OK with both OOO / Fitz getting lynched today / tomorrow ?

[Rels]

Okay, so hapahauli just replaced into another game. That pretty much confirms that he's scum and his excuses for being busy are a load of bullshit.

Can someone please take Fitz off of L-1 and lynch Hap? We can revisit Fitz tomorrow.

since kidamn voted, ill just call intent to hammer regardless of which of those wagons its for
UNVOTE:

both are good lynches in different ways. fitz is the better one but hapa's flip is, i think, indicative of fitz's alignment. so we indirectly catch scum on a town!hapa flip and we get a near-confirmed townie on a scum!hapa flip

i think hapa is indicative of fitz's alignment because fitz was pushing hapa for a lynch before i even replaced in on d1, and that wagon had momentum. no brakes were applied and requests for more votes were made -- scum wouldnt unprovoked-hard-bus that sort of way in this setup, but fitz has been a lot more cautious on most other wagons to come up

the opposite (fitz being alignment indicative for hapa) is NOT necessarily true i think (it would narrow possible worlds down more, however -- scum!fitz has two possible teams, scum!hapa has three)

p-edit damnit hammer

yo Cass, I thought Fitz was gonna be near-confirmed town if Hapa flips scum ? Why are you OK with both OOO / Fitz getting lynched today / tomorrow ?

[Rels]

mm

[Rels]

I see what you mean.

[Rels]

GG town. GG scum. I had a very pleasant time as my first game on this website. (= Gotta say having 14 days to solve the game is a pretty nice change of pace from TL, where the pace is always super intense. It's different. Come try it if you have time. (=
And we almost had the perfect game. WP all.

GG Tenshii ty for hosting, sry for not being used to the prod system.

[Rels]

yeah Hapa / Fitz had good distancing.

[Rels]

I armed N2 when I was sure OOO was scum.
In retrospect the entire town arming N1 was the best strategy probably.
I think you should have taken risks and shoot unlynchable players IMO, killing Kop / Momo were bad decisions; even with them alive you had very littly chance to survive 3 lynches, so with them gone it was basically impossible IMO.
I respect the effort you gave D3 in a low chance game though! Lots of scum players I know would have given up.

[Rels]

Dunno how that setup doesn't have a town advantage. It seems crazily town favored to me. Though I've remarked that every setup played there seems town favored to me =D so that's probably a meta difference with TL.

[Rels]

3) The Kop kill. Fuck Rels. Rels should know better and should have told you. He didn't. I am sad.

(=
I will never use that argument. Because if I start thinking like that then one time you WILL make the Kop kill as scum and I'll be pocketed.

[Rels]

3) The Kop kill. Fuck Rels. Rels should know better and should have told you. He didn't. I am sad.

(=
I will never use that argument. Because if I start thinking like that then one time you WILL make the Kop kill as scum and I'll be pocketed.

No, i will never shoot my mislynch if i have a chance to shoot someone that points to nowhere and is NOT my mislynch.
It was very simple. I can understand all of the other people not getting that but you.... You....

WIFOM don't get past me!
But hey I didn't scumread you anymore at the end p: if I wasn't totally AFK during EOD3 I would have pushed Fitz.

[Rels]

Well you were 1,25/792 townie i voted for, i guess that's an achievement.

And 100% of my votes were on people who were scummy.
=D

[Rels]

post the IRL seal pic in yuor first post 'cause you knew it was unwinnable right

[Rels]

close =D

[Rels]

being right is only a third of the goal. Since you failed the others it's only 33.26666...

[Rels]

no getting lynched

[Rels]

fucking dutches

[Rels]

Fitz if you had shot BV last night you had about 50% chance of winning the game.

Never.

[Rels]

Fitz if you had shot BV last night you had about 50% chance of winning the game.

Never.

Why not. Who, as mafia, would NOT shoot him?

I mean, he never survives 2 lynches. Especially if I'm alive

[Rels]

Like, it's already lucky for him that I had to ask just as my read on yoystarted changing and was likely to never get back to scum. Especially after that post where you countered my growing suspicions on cass

[Rels]

That post was cooland showed that you really looked for scum

[Rels]

I had to afk*

[Rels]

Kiddamn Momo and Cass were all almost lock town by the end of d3. I waffled on cass but your town case on him was really good

[Rels]

Best play for me though was BV's EOD1. Simultanously got himself and Aubrey townread, and got a mafia lynched that was townread by lots of people. And got the thread moving too

[Rels]

Kiddamn Momo and Cass were all almost lock town by the end of d3. I waffled on cass but your town case on him was really good

Yes, but not for other people. Add Kop there you you get a possible disorder.
And fuck you man, they were because i told you why, at least Cass.
momo was never ever a "no-lynch" to you, the only reason anyone he was town was because i figured out why he didn't shoot Kop. Don't even try to claim otherwise.

I claim otherwise. Never momo gets lynched before Fitz / you. Not with Hawk's first case + doom sper townie play + I checked his meta and his lazyness was not scum indicative.

[Rels]

Kiddamn Momo and Cass were all almost lock town by the end of d3. I waffled on cass but your town case on him was really good

I dont believe you Rels. If you believe this you always vote for Fitz because i argued all this.
You did however not, you jsut unvoted..

I was gonna vote Fitz. Then IRL happened then when I got back yuo were lynched

[Rels]

yep I did p:

[Rels]

Hawk first big post was about doom. Almost never partner they are

+ doom s read being so all over the place is very hard to fake for a bad scum, which he is, his only other game was pretty bad

well I got interrupted in the middle so the rest will have to wait. But I've seen two games where momo has flipped, one scumgame where he had 241 posts (lynched D3) and one town game where he had 56 (lynched D4). So at the very least activity is not a scumtell from him. Leaving work, see you later (=
Scum game: viewtopic.php?p=8979248#p8979248
Town game: viewtopic.php?p=8966258#p8966258

[Rels]

Well your RL woulsn't have saved me from cass and kidamn (and idk why from BV) but it's good you had sex :p
I wish i had too.

when there is hope there is life