Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]

[cassielle]

yeah that what makes the most sense. Apart from that one Hawk post that made me think Hawk / KidDamn would be weird:

Like I said, I don't really give a damn about this game, it's more about the three amigos having a circlejerk and apparently someone else backing off means I don't get to have a case so fuck it, do whatever.

OMG the amount of times that this response has been the first lynch in games is ridiculous.

Kid come on give a case or if that one's falling through push your second scumread don't just resign to defeat. You're at like what L-4?

Who's been pinging you lately? Who's posts just haven't been up to scruff??

But it makes waaaay more sense than any other scum team.

I'm still trying to work out just what your actual case for me as scum is, because the most you've done is a series of spammy single line posts that have decided on and then dismissed Hapa as scum, and decided I must be scum with Fitz because... Reasons? Which you've never given? And prior to this the most you've done is quote a bunch of my posts and vote me. If anyone deserves to be accused of not caring enough about their wagon it's you imo, your posts say almost nothing in terms of actual reasoning.

- POE. Almost everyone else is townier than you.
- Partner POE. Lots of people don't make sense together as a scum team. You on the contrary makes sense with Fitz. You have talk about him quite a lot, you're attacking OOO for his Fitz read actually, but I don't see you having an opinion on him.
- Your defense against Hapa's pressure. It was scummy. Very scummy. Like a scum who got caught. OMGUS, stretching reasons to attack his opponent.
- Your play since then. Mostly forgettable. Wasn't there for the deadline, didn't vote Hawk.
Why if Fitz town ?

Deadline was around 3am my time on a workday. Not happening, didn't realise timezones were scumreads now.

My play is "Mostly forgettable" Come up with something objective and I might actually respond to it.

My main scumread is pushing Fitz for reasons you yourself admitted on D1 had almost nothing tangible behind them. Fitz has mostly been VLA and the whole thing feels like a very desperate and unpleasantly aggressive Ooo trying to push a mismatch on very little case and lots of "omg look at this lurking scum omg his walls have nothing because I say so". I didn't agree with the case D1 and the insistence combined with the attacks on people who disagree from Ooo and yourself feels off. That's why I think he's town, and I would love to hear why you think I would go to bat for someone this hard if you genuinely think I'm in a scumteam with them, having already lost 1 out of 3.

Incidentally, repeatedly calling my calling out of Hapa's hypocrisy in his D1 case on me OMGUS will not make it true.

idk why i need to point it out to you when you pointed it out yourself but i mean lets do this

Spoiler: quotedump

He's pretty critical of people "coasting", but that's basically what he's doing himself this game. He has 16 posts, most of which were made while defending himself from my early-game push against him. Scum love to criticize town for fucking up, but do nothing themselves to help the situation.

Secondly, probably the most substantial thing he has in his filter deals with his "read" on Creature:

Similarly something feels off to me about Creature - the rather blasé nature of their posting, throwing out town and scum-reads with little to no reasoning (looking at their ISO, their longest post is a whole 3 lines?)... it just comes across as the opposite of "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing" - and certainly not a tale told by an idiot. It's deliberate and I dislike it, but unfortunately it matches up with looking at their posting in a couple of other games I've looked at. Having Allomancer as one of their scumreads despite them being so inactive they've picked up a prod also feels lazy as hell, as if they're covering themselves by saying "I had a scumread on Allomancer" for if/when a "fuck it, get rid of these lurkers" wagon happens.

I've been driving the wife around all day, cut a fella some slack on the meme game.
As for the vote - Honestly, right now I could go for F.E.C. or Creature, but I'm willing to give both a chance to respond (Creature more-so as my issue with him seems to just be

how he plays

). Moogin needs to contribute way more than they have so far, so not disagreeable to putting some pressure there either.

In the first post, he calls Creature mafia for questionable reasons. This isn't inherently scummy - I'd understand why a less experienced townie could call Creature mafia for his posting style.

However the second post is quite scummy.

He mentions supporting a vote on Creature, while giving good reasons to call creature town. He then finishes off by throwing Shade at a 3rd player. It's very hard for me to see this post coming from town.

The thought process of a townie is "I think <player> is mafia, therefore I should vote <player>."
NOT
"<Player> can be town for <reasons>, but I'm cool with voting him anyway."

That's not a town mentality. Town want to lynch players that they're suspicious of, not players who they have reasons to think are NOT suspicious.

There's no mention of why he thinks Creature could be more likely mafia than town. He basically acknowledges that all of his reasons to vote Creature are non alignment indicative, yet he clearly states that he would vote him.

I don't have a ton of time to respond to all this bullshit where Hapahauli runs back to his first scum-reads again to drum up a counter wagon instead of doing anything productive, so I'm just gonna make some things clear:

- I'm "coasting" because I work 50 hours a week in an environment where I don't get to spend my time sat at a desk posting walls of waffle about interactions with players on a completely different site, so yes, my posting is sporadic

- The idea that being willing to give FEC and Creature a chance to respond to my issues is scummy is straight up bullshit. If giving people chances to respond is anti-town and making use of the time the town has to discuss things is anti-town then I want a ticket to whatever bizzaro world you're on. You also conveniently ignore that my issue isn't just with his style of posting, I also referred to the fact that he was throwing out town and scum reads with little reasoning behind them AND him throwing a town read on Allomancer who had done nothing of note all game

- You conveniently ignore that my other scum read at the time (FEC) was solidly based on a series of particularly scummy looking posts

PEDIT - as Doomfeather says you literally do the thing you accuse me of where you call kop scum and then list a bunch of reasons he could be town

In summary, bite my shiny metal ass
VOTE: Hapahauli

You call Kop your second strongest read and then follow it with a list of reasons he might not be scum, one of which is his posting style with bigass walls of text catchup, while criticising me for having a weak scum-read on Creature but admitting that part of my issue could just be his posting style

Do you not see the contradiction there

Jfc phone posting. Mistype on my part from all these fucking walls of text - should be Fitz.

Point still stands, and calling you out on your bullshit with actual arguments is the opposite of "OMGUS" - the definition of OMGUS is a vote with no real reason other than 'fuck you' although that is basically my thoughts right now

misrep because you clearly outlined (TWICE) why precisely your vote wasnt OMGUS, you gave him information that should have jogged his memory ("pointing out his hypocrisy"), you all but started waving your arms at the posts and yelling "LOOK WITH YOUR EYES HERE MAN WTF" and he still said the same things about what you were doing

reminder: not reading is not in and of itself scum (though it has strengthened my PRE-EXISTING scumread of his slot due to being lightly indicative of scum)
but its important to point out regardless
why?
because it sets a baseline for how his slot plays at this point in time, which turns NAI posts into AI strategic play in some cases

so i pointed it out while it was still the case /and/ after it looked like he wasnt going to continue to inflate the amount of evidence of it

[Rels]

Apparently Cass you're the one not reading. I'm using the term OMGUS there to say that he's only attacking Hapa because Hapa attacked him; and that his reasons to attack Hapa were stretched. With your mindset, NOBODY ever did an OMGUS then. Of course scum are always going to make up a reasonning when they OMGUS their attacker; so because they made up something, it's not OMGUS anymore ?
I've explained already why I thought KidDamn OMGUSed, and taht I didn't think his reason was good:

You call Kop your second strongest read and then follow it with a list of reasons he might not be scum, one of which is his posting style with bigass walls of text catchup, while criticising me for having a weak scum-read on Creature but admitting that part of my issue could just be his posting style

Do you not see the contradiction there

This in particular makes no sense. This looks like stretching to find reasons to OMGUS

He's explaining what I said.

What you said also made no sense. There is a difference between saying "X could be scum but also could be town doing this" and "I would be OK lynching X even though my only problem with him is his posting style, which I checked he uses as town"

So my reasonning was that since KidDamn only counterattacked Hapa after being attacked, and since it was for a reasonning I found bad, then KidDamn was OMGUSing. I still think his reasonning is wrong but I don't think he's scum anymore.

[Rels]

Like, no scum is ever gonna say "fuck you I'm voting you because you're voting me". They're always gonna invent reasons when they OMGUS. And I thought KidDamn reasons to scumread Hapa were bad.

[Rels]

maybe the term is used differently in this forum though. If you restrict it only to the people saying explicitely "Oh my god you suck I'm voting you" then it was not OMGUS. But then the term is kinda useless because it almsot never happens

[cassielle]

i agree with all of his reasons and the reasoning behind them is evident -- theres even evidence given for 90% of it and in context the evidence of the rest is close by

just because you disagree with someones reasons doesnt make a vote OMGUS or else no one could be suddenly aware of someone looking like scum after they get a crap push made on their slot without acting like scum

the things to look for are:
are the reasons fleshed out and detailed (flip side: is it a vaguepost or a naked push? by no means. its rather lengthy and brings up at least 3 separate arguments that are independent of each other)
is the reasoning AS STATED backed by the evidence? (yes, it is. all of the things he said hapa did in those posts are in fact things that hapa did)
does the reasoning revolve around at the very least anti-town behavior? (yes. hapahauli was calling kidamn scum for things that hapa himself did. either those things arent scummy, or he's not sufficiently self-aware to notice he does them -- put another way, at best town!hapa is leading town into a mislynch on his slot through sheer obliviousness, at worst scum!hapa forgot some slightly earlier play of his that made his push look bad)
and after those are satisfied look at tone -- kidamns tone there isnt visibly vengeful/"get the fuck off of me", its "i think you made a grave mistake with this silly push of yours"

these are key because otherwise no one can start a wagon against the person pushing them because someone in the town is gonna end up disagreeing with their reasoning whether by spite, due to wincon, for towncred, etc etc
in short, its silly to call something OMGUS because you dont agree

i reserve the term OMGUS for naked votes, baseless assertions of the attacking slot's alignment, blatant confabulation, and vagueposts
and all of these are quite common and (excepting blatant confabulation) in any case NAI -- i see them quite often from town as well as scum

[hapahauli]

Prod dodge. Will catch up in the afternoon, haven't had time to do much of anything this week.

[Rels]

to me at the time he appeared more like panicking scum who tried to find anything to counter attack than good reasonning. I now think I was wrong on that. I'm still right on the fact that the things he's comparing are not similar (KidDamn's Creature read and Hapa's Fitz read).
If you agree with all the reasons why are you not voting Hapa ?
And hi Hapa.

[cassielle]

because i can vote whoever i want for whatever reasons i want and i think people need to pay more attention to you atm

theres a whole great big dayphase ahead of us and i have slots to sort, scum to find and reasoning to improve upon and/or discard

why try to end the day early by building that wagon? hes already a shoe-in lynch (and unlike d1 we have a high likelihood of hitting scum with a sufficiently good last minute argument)

[Rels]

I'm not trying to end the phase early. I'm trying to see what you're thinking.

[KidAmn]

yeah that what makes the most sense. Apart from that one Hawk post that made me think Hawk / KidDamn would be weird:

Like I said, I don't really give a damn about this game, it's more about the three amigos having a circlejerk and apparently someone else backing off means I don't get to have a case so fuck it, do whatever.

OMG the amount of times that this response has been the first lynch in games is ridiculous.

Kid come on give a case or if that one's falling through push your second scumread don't just resign to defeat. You're at like what L-4?

Who's been pinging you lately? Who's posts just haven't been up to scruff??

But it makes waaaay more sense than any other scum team.

I'm still trying to work out just what your actual case for me as scum is, because the most you've done is a series of spammy single line posts that have decided on and then dismissed Hapa as scum, and decided I must be scum with Fitz because... Reasons? Which you've never given? And prior to this the most you've done is quote a bunch of my posts and vote me. If anyone deserves to be accused of not caring enough about their wagon it's you imo, your posts say almost nothing in terms of actual reasoning.

- POE. Almost everyone else is townier than you.
- Partner POE. Lots of people don't make sense together as a scum team. You on the contrary makes sense with Fitz. You have talk about him quite a lot, you're attacking OOO for his Fitz read actually, but I don't see you having an opinion on him.
- Your defense against Hapa's pressure. It was scummy. Very scummy. Like a scum who got caught. OMGUS, stretching reasons to attack his opponent.
- Your play since then. Mostly forgettable. Wasn't there for the deadline, didn't vote Hawk.
Why if Fitz town ?

Deadline was around 3am my time on a workday. Not happening, didn't realise timezones were scumreads now.

My play is "Mostly forgettable" Come up with something objective and I might actually respond to it.

My main scumread is pushing Fitz for reasons you yourself admitted on D1 had almost nothing tangible behind them. Fitz has mostly been VLA and the whole thing feels like a very desperate and unpleasantly aggressive Ooo trying to push a mismatch on very little case and lots of "omg look at this lurking scum omg his walls have nothing because I say so". I didn't agree with the case D1 and the insistence combined with the attacks on people who disagree from Ooo and yourself feels off. That's why I think he's town, and I would love to hear why you think I would go to bat for someone this hard if you genuinely think I'm in a scumteam with them, having already lost 1 out of 3.

Incidentally, repeatedly calling my calling out of Hapa's hypocrisy in his D1 case on me OMGUS will not make it true.

idk why i need to point it out to you when you pointed it out yourself but i mean lets do this

Spoiler: quotedump

He's pretty critical of people "coasting", but that's basically what he's doing himself this game. He has 16 posts, most of which were made while defending himself from my early-game push against him. Scum love to criticize town for fucking up, but do nothing themselves to help the situation.

Secondly, probably the most substantial thing he has in his filter deals with his "read" on Creature:

Similarly something feels off to me about Creature - the rather blasé nature of their posting, throwing out town and scum-reads with little to no reasoning (looking at their ISO, their longest post is a whole 3 lines?)... it just comes across as the opposite of "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing" - and certainly not a tale told by an idiot. It's deliberate and I dislike it, but unfortunately it matches up with looking at their posting in a couple of other games I've looked at. Having Allomancer as one of their scumreads despite them being so inactive they've picked up a prod also feels lazy as hell, as if they're covering themselves by saying "I had a scumread on Allomancer" for if/when a "fuck it, get rid of these lurkers" wagon happens.

I've been driving the wife around all day, cut a fella some slack on the meme game.
As for the vote - Honestly, right now I could go for F.E.C. or Creature, but I'm willing to give both a chance to respond (Creature more-so as my issue with him seems to just be

how he plays

). Moogin needs to contribute way more than they have so far, so not disagreeable to putting some pressure there either.

In the first post, he calls Creature mafia for questionable reasons. This isn't inherently scummy - I'd understand why a less experienced townie could call Creature mafia for his posting style.

However the second post is quite scummy.

He mentions supporting a vote on Creature, while giving good reasons to call creature town. He then finishes off by throwing Shade at a 3rd player. It's very hard for me to see this post coming from town.

The thought process of a townie is "I think <player> is mafia, therefore I should vote <player>."
NOT
"<Player> can be town for <reasons>, but I'm cool with voting him anyway."

That's not a town mentality. Town want to lynch players that they're suspicious of, not players who they have reasons to think are NOT suspicious.

There's no mention of why he thinks Creature could be more likely mafia than town. He basically acknowledges that all of his reasons to vote Creature are non alignment indicative, yet he clearly states that he would vote him.

I don't have a ton of time to respond to all this bullshit where Hapahauli runs back to his first scum-reads again to drum up a counter wagon instead of doing anything productive, so I'm just gonna make some things clear:

- I'm "coasting" because I work 50 hours a week in an environment where I don't get to spend my time sat at a desk posting walls of waffle about interactions with players on a completely different site, so yes, my posting is sporadic

- The idea that being willing to give FEC and Creature a chance to respond to my issues is scummy is straight up bullshit. If giving people chances to respond is anti-town and making use of the time the town has to discuss things is anti-town then I want a ticket to whatever bizzaro world you're on. You also conveniently ignore that my issue isn't just with his style of posting, I also referred to the fact that he was throwing out town and scum reads with little reasoning behind them AND him throwing a town read on Allomancer who had done nothing of note all game

- You conveniently ignore that my other scum read at the time (FEC) was solidly based on a series of particularly scummy looking posts

PEDIT - as Doomfeather says you literally do the thing you accuse me of where you call kop scum and then list a bunch of reasons he could be town

In summary, bite my shiny metal ass
VOTE: Hapahauli

You call Kop your second strongest read and then follow it with a list of reasons he might not be scum, one of which is his posting style with bigass walls of text catchup, while criticising me for having a weak scum-read on Creature but admitting that part of my issue could just be his posting style

Do you not see the contradiction there

Jfc phone posting. Mistype on my part from all these fucking walls of text - should be Fitz.

Point still stands, and calling you out on your bullshit with actual arguments is the opposite of "OMGUS" - the definition of OMGUS is a vote with no real reason other than 'fuck you' although that is basically my thoughts right now

misrep because you clearly outlined (TWICE) why precisely your vote wasnt OMGUS, you gave him information that should have jogged his memory ("pointing out his hypocrisy"), you all but started waving your arms at the posts and yelling "LOOK WITH YOUR EYES HERE MAN WTF" and he still said the same things about what you were doing

reminder: not reading is not in and of itself scum (though it has strengthened my PRE-EXISTING scumread of his slot due to being lightly indicative of scum)
but its important to point out regardless
why?
because it sets a baseline for how his slot plays at this point in time, which turns NAI posts into AI strategic play in some cases

so i pointed it out while it was still the case /and/ after it looked like he wasnt going to continue to inflate the amount of evidence of it

Oh, that's it? From the way you talked it up I assumed it was something new, hence the confusion.

[Rels]

you didn't finish answering me yesterday too, about the "easy townreads" or whatever, who was basically just me townreading Hapa too easily D1. Apparently it's a big part of your scumread on me since my Hapa questionning D1 is also softballing questionning from your POV. What do you think of what I've said since the day started about Hapa ? Even before you voted me ?

[cassielle]

you didn't finish answering me yesterday too, about the "easy townreads" or whatever, who was basically just me townreading Hapa too easily D1. Apparently it's a big part of your scumread on me since my Hapa questionning D1 is also softballing questionning from your POV. What do you think of what I've said since the day started about Hapa ? Even before you voted me ?

first of all
softballing questions is where you ask easy questions, or questions with the "correct" answers out in the open, or questions which have no truly AI answers
its used by town and scum, but town tends to use it to bait rhetorical traps (or to give a disinterested townie a leg up and back into the game, as i did twice thus far) while scum tends to use it to give scumbuddies towncred
a key distinction is to look at the mood and activity of the player being given the easy questions and the players response to the answers given
if the questioned slot is active and engaged in the game AND the questioner slot accepts the answers easily, its scum-indicative

secondly: you took hapas answers to your softballed questions at face value and turned around like "i think hes town guys" -- thats a crap reason to townread someone you just said was scummy-looking, it felt more like you were trying to bank on your early-day towncred to pull hapa out of a hole

third: i voted you d1 and my scumread of you has never changed since then, i just was pissed about ooo's ad hom attacks and wanted to get that shit out of the game

finally:you say youre scumreading hapa but continue to look elsewhere -- sure, thats something /everyone/ is doing, but i dont think you realize theres a scum narrative there
goes something like "distance from your buddy, blend in with the townies, and find a weak slot to push a mislynch on as the 'third scum'"
in other words the simple fact that youre scumreading hapa publicly isnt good enough to sort you with-- did you see BVs argument for hawk/hapa, for instance? you can bring great arguments to the table there and all but it doesnt change the fact that scum and town can and would both do that right now

(and ftr the people /not/ doing that are also in need of a second look atm because thats just as NAI and just as easy to hide in as scum)

oh, right. and you said hapa had to be town in the early parts of this dayphase -- you voted him from left field, then said "naaaaah" and unvoted
in fact you didnt scumread hapa until the precise moment that doing so let you push ooo, even spent a lot of time in a scum!KidAmn world (which is bunk because i cant see a hapa/KidAmn team in a million years) right up until that point...
...so your defense here is pretty weak tbh

[Rels]

It's not a defense, I don't need to defend myself TBH, I don't think I'm ever getting lynched this game. I have all the motivation in the world now. What I'm doing is that I'm trying to see your logic.

"even spent a lot of time in a scum!KidAmn world (which is bunk because i cant see a hapa/KidAmn team in a million years)"
That is precisely why I unvoted Hapa in the first place - so you thinking I unvoted Hapa until later, but also thinking it was scummy that I scumread KidDamn doesnt' make sense. It doesn't add up. I spent a lot of time in the scum!KidDamn world exactly because I was not seeing who could be partner with Hapa.

Furthermore, you're saying I'm bussing my partner Hapa, to get a mislynch after Hapa is lynched. You're forgetting something apparently. In this game scum can get killed during the night if their tager arms themselves. In that setup, bussing my partner D2 makes me lose the game 99% of the time.

[momo]

Can somebody please summarize for me what is happening....

[Rels]

Can somebody please summarize for me what is happening....

You don't have time to play ?

[momo]

I do but at this point I really do not want to read 1690 posts.

[Rels]

I do but at this point I really do not want to read 1690 posts.

Well then better replace out. There is no good summary, lots of things have happened.

[cassielle]

It's not a defense, I don't need to defend myself TBH, I don't think I'm ever getting lynched this game. I have all the motivation in the world now. What I'm doing is that I'm trying to see your logic.

"even spent a lot of time in a scum!KidAmn world (which is bunk because i cant see a hapa/KidAmn team in a million years)"
That is precisely why I unvoted Hapa in the first place - so you thinking I unvoted Hapa until later, but also thinking it was scummy that I scumread KidDamn doesnt' make sense. It doesn't add up. I spent a lot of time in the scum!KidDamn world exactly because I was not seeing who could be partner with Hapa.

Furthermore, you're saying I'm bussing my partner Hapa, to get a mislynch after Hapa is lynched. You're forgetting something apparently. In this game scum can get killed during the night if their tager arms themselves. In that setup, bussing my partner D2 makes me lose the game 99% of the time.

distancing is not bussing
and i dont scumread you for being in the scum!KidAmn world after unvoting hapa, thats false

[BlackVoid]

When I saw that post, I wanted to say "read or replace out" but thought I'd sound like a jerk. Thankfully, Rels did it for me.

But seriously, if you don't want to read a ton of pages, you always have the option of signing /in for a game taking signups. It seems rude to replace in and say you won't read.

Looking forward to Hap's catchup as well.

[Rels]

It's not a defense, I don't need to defend myself TBH, I don't think I'm ever getting lynched this game. I have all the motivation in the world now. What I'm doing is that I'm trying to see your logic.

"even spent a lot of time in a scum!KidAmn world (which is bunk because i cant see a hapa/KidAmn team in a million years)"
That is precisely why I unvoted Hapa in the first place - so you thinking I unvoted Hapa until later, but also thinking it was scummy that I scumread KidDamn doesnt' make sense. It doesn't add up. I spent a lot of time in the scum!KidDamn world exactly because I was not seeing who could be partner with Hapa.

Furthermore, you're saying I'm bussing my partner Hapa, to get a mislynch after Hapa is lynched. You're forgetting something apparently. In this game scum can get killed during the night if their tager arms themselves. In that setup, bussing my partner D2 makes me lose the game 99% of the time.

distancing is not bussing
and i dont scumread you for being in the scum!KidAmn world after unvoting hapa, thats false

Then don't say it like that: " even spent a lot of time in a scum!KidAmn world (which is bunk because i cant see a hapa/KidAmn team in a million years) right up until that point...
...so your defense here is pretty weak tbh"

So basically you still scumread me for the way I interacted with Hapa D1. The rest is just storytelling around that fact. For example when you're describing why I would distance myself from Hapa now, it's storytelling; it's a nice story but it doesn't prove anything one way or the other. I can be scum distancing or town pushing his scumread.
That's fine though. If that's the only thing you have against me your read will change sooner or later. D1 is always my worst day.

[cassielle]

It's not a defense, I don't need to defend myself TBH, I don't think I'm ever getting lynched this game. I have all the motivation in the world now. What I'm doing is that I'm trying to see your logic.

"even spent a lot of time in a scum!KidAmn world (which is bunk because i cant see a hapa/KidAmn team in a million years)"
That is precisely why I unvoted Hapa in the first place - so you thinking I unvoted Hapa until later, but also thinking it was scummy that I scumread KidDamn doesnt' make sense. It doesn't add up. I spent a lot of time in the scum!KidDamn world exactly because I was not seeing who could be partner with Hapa.

Furthermore, you're saying I'm bussing my partner Hapa, to get a mislynch after Hapa is lynched. You're forgetting something apparently. In this game scum can get killed during the night if their tager arms themselves. In that setup, bussing my partner D2 makes me lose the game 99% of the time.

distancing is not bussing
and i dont scumread you for being in the scum!KidAmn world after unvoting hapa, thats false

Then don't say it like that: " even spent a lot of time in a scum!KidAmn world (which is bunk because i cant see a hapa/KidAmn team in a million years) right up until that point...
...so your defense here is pretty weak tbh"

So basically you still scumread me for the way I interacted with Hapa D1. The rest is just storytelling around that fact. For example when you're describing why I would distance myself from Hapa now, it's storytelling; it's a nice story but it doesn't prove anything one way or the other. I can be scum distancing or town pushing his scumread.

That's fine though. If that's the only thing you have against me your read will change sooner or later.

D1 is always my worst day.

i like seeing this
one thing i dont do (though people often mistake my play for it) is tunnel, im always always always re-evaluating my reads

so yeah if youre town youll get out of that hole eventually -- until then it doesnt hurt to keep you at the forefront of peoples minds

[outoforder]

Actually my outoforder townread lessened a bit. If Hap flips scum, I want to look more closely there. His D1 was incredibly town but his arguments for Hap being town today have been a stretch. Who is your best guess for the third scum?

Mine? Idk. Rels or KidAmn.

I am going to now tell you something. There is absolutely no way there is 2 mafia in me/Hapa and Rels. You can choose to not believe me but that is 100% going to be the truth this game. I know i am not mafia and there is literally no way either of me and Rels would have treated Hapa early on in the game like we did in case he was mafia. Maybe you are right and Hapa is mafia, i just don't believe it.

If you're going to lynch him based on an association with Hawk (and me) then i might just aswell stop posting, because there is probably not a way to change your mind. I've said everything i have to say about that. I just don't believe you're right here on his alignment.

At least i am going to vote for mafia.
VOTE: havingfitz

[outoforder]

And i really don't care about the third scum right now because when we lynch havingfitz we can lynch both of the people who can possibly be mafia.

[cassielle]

I am going to now tell you something. There is absolutely no way there is 2 mafia in me/Hapa and Rels. You can choose to not believe me but that is 100% going to be the truth this game. I know i am not mafia and

there is literally no way either of me and Rels would have treated Hapa early on in the game like we did in case he was mafia. Maybe you are right and Hapa is mafia, i just don't believe it.

can anyone see what i see

[outoforder]

Rels you're being super dumb if you believe i can be mafia this game and you are town. You should know that when i am amongst the most influential people in the game and being townread by other influential players (who basically were you, Aubrey and BlackVoid) there is absolutely no way the day 1 ends like it did. You suggesting that i am mafia is almost as dumb as you suggesting i am mafia in the lylo of RSM II when i lead a lynch on mafia on D1 when i could have basically lynched almost anyone i wanted.

Think about it a bit in case you're town.