Newbie 531: (Game Over)

[Superfly]

Confirmed.

[Superfly]

For me, Tamuz's meta argument is not strong enough to base my vote on. It seems to be based only on the assumption that most people like being vanilla, which is hard to prove. Even if it were true, it doesn't mean much, because it is nothing but statistics and says nothing about a specific person.

Also, Battousai is new to mafiascum.net and we do not know what the general stance is in his other community.

I do however think Bat's post was a bit on the defensive side, he came to several conclusions from very little and tried to direct the attention towards tlp, who probably just did a joke vote and who I don't think is scum or "very inexperienced" just from that.

[Superfly]

So vote (and presumably lynch) Tlp
And then see if Battousai is suspicious from that?

This is not a good idea, tlp has hardly had a chance to defend himself. We have nothing on him to prove if he is a town or mafia. His attack on SlySly was indeed pointless and badly thought out, but I am willing to believe it was a newbie mistake, at least for now. Also, townies attack townies who they think they are scum frequently. If tlp flipped vanilla, then Battousai would not necessarily be scum

Still, tlp, claiming newbie will not free you from your responsibility. You still have to post coherently and sort-of-logically, no matter what side you are. Posting like this will get you lynched and that is not good whichever side you are. You can't have other people make the arguments for you.

Sure you can vote me and see what happens and then directly see wether or not battousai is suspicious or not.

At least try to defend yourself, really. If you are town, then getting yourself (bad, good or whatever, doesn't matter) lynched like this is a ton worse than knowing if some guy is "suspicious".

I hope your next post will be better.

Now, on to Battousai.

First of all for a while he focused on tlp. Now, to me, tlp seems like an easy, even obvious target. His argument against him is technically true, however he exaggerated it. Just because tlp did a random vote, which nobody even went along with, he is "most likely scum". Admittedly, bat never voted for tlp, but that does not make it unscummy - starting a bandwagon that early wouldn't have worked anyway. Then again, why wouldn't he vote for tlp if he was "most likely scum".

Tlp does seem the most suspicious to me.

How has Tlp been suspicious?

Bat just ignores(or "failed to notice") this. Tamuz did sum up the case against tlp well in his next post, but bat could have answered at least.

@bird- one more question I just thought of. With the roleblocker, how are you deflecting it? making them appear townie or will the investigation result without results?

Now I do not understand why a vanilla would ask this. The investigation results could only be known to the cop though it could also be deduced by the mafia. A cop would not likely reveal his investigation results in the thread on day 2, unless we lynch a scum today and he finds the other one on night 1. This means bat most likely lied to us earlier about being a vanilla.

Whoever the cop is, with your night action look at tlp or tamuz, results of the lynch depending

So you assume a cop is simply going to claim in this thread to tell you his choice? He would be roleblocked from there on. This seems like baiting to me.

We are only on page 2 and you were pushing for a lynch at the top or at least telling me to vote tlp. Whenever I play, day 1 lynch usually don't happen till page 7 if its active and a game like this page 4.

Games are different, people act different and make less/more mistakes. I am not saying that quicklynch is a good idea, just that stretching out the lynch is just as bad.

Bat also makes a lot of assumptions and often does not back them up. He assumes tamuz has a night action and does not explain it, he assumes the affiliations of 2/3 of the players on page 1 and explains some of them later on.

Finally, in his first non-confirmation post he claimed that he was a vanilla townie, by now he has backed out on it and says "he may or may not be" a vanilla townie. As I said earlier I in fact doubt he is a vanilla townie. This looks like a scum move to me, "fixing" your claim when it is not realistic any more.

So, in summary, he goes for the easy target, baits the cop, lies and has inconsistent argumentation, so...

Vote:Battousai

However, I will unvote if someone puts him to lynch-1 before he can answer.

PS: This post is really long, damnit.
PSS: I will have an avatar when I find a decent one.

[Superfly]

I can't defend myself further without claiming, so please, either don't vote to lynch me or if I have 3 votes against me, let me post before the final vote.

I think this pretty much confirms that battousai is anything but vanilla. If he was vanilla, he would probably have claimed already - there would be no reason to delay it. He seems to be hinting here is that he is a power role and we should refrain from putting any more votes on him so he wouldn't have to claim.

In any case, you lied to us earlier.

I hate being a vanilla townie...

Like apy said, on day one scumminess is really the only thing we can lynch someone on, unless someone makes a huge mistake or goes emo and claims scum. Lieing, having bad arguments and trying to out power roles are all scummy.

As I said in my last post, he has had relatively watered down, simple arguments. He assumes a lot and bothers to only (weakly) explain his assumptions when called out on it. He FOSed tlp for a small newbie mistake and tam based on an assumption.

However I particularly dislike bat's last defense(#52). He backpedals from this.

Whoever the cop is, with your night action look at tlp or tamuz, results of the lynch depending.

I got it in the way that the cop should out himself to tell us who he will investigate and then we will lynch the other one. Again seems like baiting the cop, while also pushing for a lynch for an easy target(tlp) or a good player(tam). He says he didn't intend to lynch either of them, but it doesn't seem like it to me.

Then in the end, he tries to calm the storm. He asks us not to lynch him, while giving us hardly any reason not to.

Most likely, like apy said, he is planning to (false) claim a power role right before the hammer. After he would probably try to direct the attention to one of the mean people that tried to lynch him and hope we took the bait.

So my vote is staying on him.

[Superfly]

I didn't post for 8 days because the last page had little content on it. 3/4 was just Battousai's short and weak defense, discussion about tlp's nationality and something off topic. I like to write long posts each time and I felt there wasn't enough content for one until the end of the page.

I was planning to write a post about other players right after my last one, but I had to go away for a while so I couldn't do it right away.

Tlp

should start searching for scum more actively. Also it would be nice if he said something a tad longer about bat than in #74. It is pretty hard to get anything about him, because he hasn't really said that much. He made a newbie mistake at the start and for a while was an easy target. I however believe that if Bat turns out scum, he is likely a townie.

Superfly? haven't heared alot from him which could mean that he just waits and see us fighting and lynching eachother. Perhaps I'm just totally wrong but its just the feeling I have with him.

I do think that the ppl who are scum won't really go up in much of a debate. Sure they might take some ppl in question and they won't start it from scratch because it might be suspicious. Not saying Superfly is scum now or anyone who doesn't reply in a certain time.

Don't get this the wrong way tlp, but replace Superfly with tlp and you have a pretty good summary of your own involvment in this thread.

I have at least tried to give my opinion on everything every time I post.

Tamuz

is an experienced player and I believe he is town. I did not like his meta argument and his proposition at the end of post 48, but it is not enough to make him look like scum.

I believe

SlySly

is town. He has made solid arguments.

Hard to say anything about

soupfly

. I hope he gets his computer fixed soon so he can give his opinion about the situation.

Apyadg

has not been scummy so far.

We should probably wait for soupfly and others to give their opinions before lynching bat. I believe bat is scum, but more content wouldn't hurt.

[Superfly]

I kinda did want the cop to out himself

so I know who to protect at night

and not to lynch against during the day.

You can’t say that you thought that it would have been good. Under the rules of this game a confirmed cop on day one is not good.

If the mafia roleblocker worked like you thought they worked here, then sure.

I thought that it blocked his/her partner's role if they died and the rb used it

However, can you imagine how overpowered it would be if it was in the way you suggest. A confirmed cop getting defended by the doc every night. Effectively killproof and lynchproof. Never getting roleblocked. So that couldn't be the case.

In all other cases, including the current one, it would be bad. If a cop can't investigate and gets roleblocked, he is useless. We lose a power role, we gain a confirmed town that is effectively vanilla. Also scum wouldn't need to even waste their nightkills on him. They would just roleblock him every night and go for the other power role. Also a bad doc, which you are if you planned on what you said(underlined it) would just keep defending him while the corpses pile up.

So you were still, in effect, doing something not beneficial to the town.

So to sum up, you are basically either a very badly played doc(if you are, we lose you tonight - you can't be useful to the town when dead) or a scum.

[Superfly]

Note that is what I plannED to do, but once I got the information that the roles didn't work that way on this site, there went my plan and I'm glad the cop didn't out themselves.

So before you thought that rb "blocked only the cop's investigation", which is still roleblocking, cop specific even or you belived that rb prevented cardflip, which would make him rather useless in a small game like this. I doubt the games on your last site were so in favour of the town to allow the cop, by claiming, to become lynch and kill proof and not get his role blocked.

[Superfly]

So what do we do now? Lynch bat or wait for soupfly and talk more to make the day a bit longer?

Oh and everyone, don't stop posting. The day is still going on. Either we end it now or we have some more discussion, sitting around isn't going to help.

[Superfly]

Because if no doctor claims, I have no real reason to believe that Battousi isn't the doctor. I have what I glean from people, but this is NOT solid evidence.

I am not afraid to trust my logic. Battousai is playing

unbelievably

bad as a doc if he is one. Didn't read the information about roles, thought outing the cop was good, acted completely opposite to how a doc should act during the day and being scummy and drawing attention, which caused L-1 and forced him to claim. Also the meta argument, while not solid enough on its own, is also up there.

We just have to assume he forgot to read the rules, the wiki, didn't have similar situations in any of his previous games and most certainly didn't play as a doc or had a good look at any docs playing on his last forum. Also roleblocker apparently had two different definitions on his last forums from what I get from this, cop-only roleblocker and mafia janitor.

I thought that it blocked only the cop's investigation or his/her partner's role if they died and the rb used it.

He has lied and thinks it is pro-town behavior. He has changed his claims, his arguments are watered down, he answers to attacks against him selectively, he FOSed you for going against him and voted slysly for voting him.

Now sure, he might be a doc, but then we are screwed. However you can't put general scumminess into probability equations, so considering it I doubt we are actually.

[Superfly]

Battousai, if you are a townie, you are so awful it is unreal.

[Superfly]

1) If we call for Doc Counter:
- If Bat is Doc: townie is saved. Result is good
- If Bat is Scum: kill scum but lose doc early. Result is slightly bad
2) If we don't call for Doc Counter:
- If Bat is Doc: townie is killed. Result is extremely bad
- If Bat is Scum: kill scum without outing doc. Result is very good.

What would the doc counter anyway? Battousai says he is townie, not a doc.

I think it is pointless at this stage. Battousai has acted incredibly scummy.

He can't be a doc, because he has never acted like one. Docs don't falseclaim twice during the game or behave this scummy. Also, why would a doc back out on his claim? It was the only thing that kept the hammer away at that point.

He is also not the cop, simply because if he were, he would have cop claimed instead of doc claiming earlier.

I find it hard to believe he is a townie as well. What kind of townie would false claim a doc, try to out the cop, ask for info about power roles and roleblockers. Also if he didn't fake this, then I just don't know. It is probably the most retarded plan I have ever read.

I wanted to play out being the doc tonight to save myself from the town wasting a lynch, and having the scum waste their night action on a regular townie.

By even making this claim, he was inviting the doc to counter. If he would have, then we would have lynched battousai, a townie and gotten the doc nightkilled. This is of course assuming battousai even is a townie.

So we are left with...

[Superfly]

Here is what I think.

Apyadg

Focused on Battousai, sort of dared him to roleclaim in #75, put Battousai on L-1 and kept him there, though "was not sure of lynching him" at #112.

Opinion :

Could be scum

, but has been playing well if that is true

tlp

Only person who didn't agree with the lynch. Was the first to be attacked during the day, ironically by Battousai.

opinion:

Town

, most likely

Soup

Against Battousai, though that doesn't make him special, lynched him, but doesn't really show anything, called for the doc to claim later, though I believe his excuse

Opinion:

Inconclusive, leaning towards town

SSly

Started bandwagon on battousai based on meta and #39, on him from page 1 to the end, not yet said much about anyone besides bat.

Opinion:

Most likely scum at this point

Everyone thought Battousai was scum towards the end.

Everyone

attacked him and he just kept digging his hole deeper. Because he was such a convenient scapegoat for the scum to latch on to, I think it would be more important to look at the earlier stages of the game, when the scum didn't have that comfort.

I would vote SlySly, but since I am not 100% sure of him being scum, I am not going to. The scum would love to quicklynch somebody.

FOS: SlySly

[Superfly]

Lots of words

Just so you don't get me the wrong way, I am not 100% sure about anything yet. It is late so I don't have time to make a long response, but as for this.

We now have two scum, one doc, one cop, and one vanilla, is it a good time to reveal roles?

I think we should wait for a bit, let the rest post their views before and then think about this after.

[Superfly]

Apy,

Tlp, I'm not so sure of, and I'm not sure why you have him down as the most likely Townie, Superfly.

Tlp could have hammered Battousai whenever he wanted to on day 6 and nobody would have cared. Either he was being careful or he was scum trying to fool us, we can't tell. My gut tells me it is the former (yeah I know what they say)

I didn't foresee the hammer coming anytime soon

2 days before the lynch, Tamuz said this, which pretty much sealed his fate. Thus, unless you didn't visit the forums for those 2 days, I doubt you could have not seen it coming.

Even with my lack of desire to lynch an uncountered doc, Battousai's recent flailing has enabled me to feel fine with lynching him now. At this point I just want soup to be able to have this say, before everything is over.

Was it really a bandwagon? Going back and looking at post 39, I still find it fairly convincing.

To me it seemed, that Battousai was thrown off balance right from the first attack, thus portraying himself as a weak player, who would have been easy for the scum to bandwagon in such a way. Also, half of his proof was a meta argument, most of which are weak and unreliable. Does not make him scum just because of this, but still something to consider.

Okay, fine up to now, but

what the hell is this?

Vote Soupfly

You ignore the suggestions of the rest of the town to not roleclaim for the moment, and why? So you can get in your early claim to get people behind you, before "your role" is claimed. Unfortunately we're not into the muddy territory of one person's word against another.

So based on that weak argument, you vote a confirmed cop. This is not nearly a strong enough argument to vote someone on, considering that the scum can quicklynch the townie and instantly win. I can think of three reasons why anyone would be this eager to vote someone.

1.) You are a cop, you maybe got a guilty result on soup but regardless now you see him claim, you vote him because he is scum
2.) You are scum, you want to fool a townie into voting, so your buddy can quicklynch
3.) You are a rather stupid town

I doubt 3, because you are neither stupid nor unexperienced. So I'd assume you are either cop or scum.

I believe that this day would already have ended, if both you and soup are town, because I am town and slysly and tlp were online almost at the same time but did not quicklynch.

So I believe that either you are a cop and soup is scum or vice versa. However, I feel counterclaiming, not just voting, would have been the logical reaction to soup if you were cop, so I am leaning towards you being scum.

FOS: Apyadg

[Superfly]

Last post was too long.

If there is a no lynch and the doc protects the scum target during the night, we will be in Day 3 with the exact same 5 we have now unless there is a rule where the mod kills someone off that I am not aware of.

If he protects the right one, which is not very likely. The scum can lynch completely random, they just need to lynch any townie. The doc would not have anything to go on.

[Superfly]

SlySly if we nolynch, we are placing everything on chance and luck. This is not how mafia is played. I wouldn't agree with this even if it was correct or inevitable, because playing mafia like a 2 month long blackjack game isn't very fun.

Also, inn this case it is bad for the town. Even with a random vote we have 40% chance of lynching scum, with a nolynch it would be less.

[Superfly]

you hadn't counter claimed at that point. assuming that we were all townies at that point then it was indeed a valid assessment as an IC. unless you know something definitively, you should never rush to put a vote on anybody when you're a townie because of the risk of speed lynch

If we believe his cop claim, the rushed vote makes sense, because you would be confirmed scum to him. There is no way in hell that both of you are townies.

it seems unmistakable to me that I'm saying

I'm the doc

there

Sarcasm, typo or what?

Sly, I agree with bad player=/=scum, but "taking lessons from day 1" isn't useful. Battousai was a first timer on this site, but apy and soup aren't.

Also the second scum is either you or tlp because soup and apy can't both be town or scum and I am town.

[Superfly]

what i would recommend is that you read slysly's last post very carefully. what do you think about slysly's logic about believing apy's sloppy play because we lynched battousai for his sloppy play and were wrong? is that logic worthy of Lylo? seems pretty manufactured...almost like someone grasping at something to justify his predetermined point of view.

Soup, there is no need to influence me like this, I have been suspicious of apyadg and slysly from the beginning. If you want me to summarize the last post it would be

Oh my god, apyadg is stupid

,

BUT LOOK AT THIS GUY!!!!

Which leads me to believe that apyadg and slysly are scumbuddies if either of them is scum.

Also, this looks like a rather weak argument

If it weren't for the Day 1 result from Battousai's lynch and the fact that we are at lylo, I would most likely place a vote on Apyadg

I can understand the second part, but battousai was clearly an isolated case, not a precedent. This looks like a "fished out" excuse to me. If he was scum, it would be a good move to play out on the confusion that followed after the lynch.

There are three other scummy points about Sly. He called for nolynch in lylo. He started the bandwagon on Battousai. In regards to this, here is his explanation of it in an earlier post.

Battousai followed up his initial scumminess with plenty more, such as fake and alternating claims and ignoring direct questions, etc... His play was unquestionably bad, thus, defending him in anyway at this point, IMO, seems very scummy.

When he made the bandwagon post, all battousai had done was two newbie mistakes. Also it relied greatly on the meta argument. When I voted him at the end of page 2, it was only because I wanted to pressure him to defend better. I wasn't 100% sure he was scum.

For the third point, let me bring out the possible scum pairs.

sly and apy
sly and soup
sly and tlp
apy and soup
apy and tlp
soup and tlp

The 4th one is out of the question. The 3rd, 5th and 6th one are hard to believe because tlp has been unscummy for the entire game. That leaves the 1st and 2nd. Both of them have slysly in it. Out of those two, the more likely one is the 1st, because of what I said earlier on.

As for apy, he responded to the claim rather defensively, which can mean a lot of things. He is not a newbie, so either he really is the cop or he is a scum.

I would vote Sly at this point, but I'll wait for a bit longer. Tlp hasn't said a lot and half of my third point relies on him being town.

[Superfly]

Tlp, could you post your opinions about each player and who are most likely scum in your opinion. Would help.

[Superfly]

Stop exaggerating everything I say and calm down. Although I am 95% sure you are scum, there is a chance you are town, in which case your extreme defensiveness can get you lynched and your careless vote can lose us the game.

I did NOT say this!! Misquoting = VERY SCUMMY!!!

In the first part of the last paragraph you say

If it weren't for the Day 1 result from Battousai's lynch and the fact that we are at lylo, I would most likely place a vote on Apyadg"

and then you promptly follow by FOSing soupfly instead. Misquoting? I doubt it. Tlp apparently understood it the same way.

Also, I like the way you wrote very scummy in caps lock and with !!!, that surely is not an exaggeration or manipulative, not even a bit(/sarcasm).

I didn't call for no lynch, I said it was a valid option at this point, and I still believe that to a certain extent, because with a no lynch, we stilll have a chance to win, with a mislynch like we did in Day 1, the game is over and we lose.

You hinted for it and no, unless we get a written promise from the scum saying who they will lynch tonight, it is not a viable option, it is surrender.

I would hardly call Battousai's lynch a bandwagon and as far as me starting it, Tamuz is the one who planted the seeds of Battousai's scumminess in post 16, not me. I didn't pressure anyone to vote on Battousai and does anyone really think Battousai didn't screw himself over in his very first confirmation post and then continue slitting his own throat with each additional post of his?

You voted for him first. A bandwagon is everything that ends with a lynch. Battousai was clearly a weak player and the votes on him pushed him further to his collapse. He made two careless comments, one of them was metad and the other misinterpreted/turned into a scum claim. That is what you based your vote on AT THAT TIME. What happened later we all know. That is irrelevant, because Battousai was beyond hope past page 4.

I didn't notice you removing your vote from Battousai either. Maybe his scumminess was blinding you too?!?!? Don't accuse me of doing something that you yourself did. You accusation is VERY SCUMMY.

Heh, what were your motives for voting him? Remember, you said, that based on a few careless posts and a meta argument, he IS scum. I only wanted to pressure him to defend himself better. Then came page 3, where nothing happened and he said he would claim, I decided to wait it out and then came his scummy claim and everything fell apart from there.

Your possibilities are off and you have conveniently left off a few. I have included them for you.

super and tlp
super and apy
super and soup

I didn't include them so scum couldn't follow up with "OH YOU ADDED YOURSELF DOES THAT MEAN YOU COULD BE SCUM TOO OH SCUMCLAIM HURF DURF".

You have misquoted me and you have repeatedly accused me of doing things I didn't do. To me, this can only mean 1 thing and that is that you are scum.

vote:Superfly

Problem is, that you did do them. If you are scum, then I clearly outlined your intentions.

I would vote you like you'd expect but I am going to wait instead. Better see what other people and your likely scumbuddy think of this post and yours. And if you really are a town, then maybe reconsider your vote. FOSing or being suspicious of me is fine. Voting on someone in a defensive mood who you find merely scummy can lead to misconceptions. What if you are wrong? We will lose. Your logic is not strong enough to be that sure.

I would think Battousai was an isolated case too but now I have seen Apyadg exactly repeat many of Battousai's mistakes which makes me think he is a bad townie not thinking his actions through ahead of time.

Yeah, so why am I better from Battousai and apyadg. I am flattered you consider me to be such a good player, especially considering this is literally my first mafia game.

[Superfly]

For anyone confused, my last post was not a response to tlp, but to sly.

I agree with tlp's post.

Also for the sake of truth, I read through tlp's last post and I got it a bit wrong. In this part

Misquoting? I doubt it. Tlp apparently understood it the same way.

He didn't understand it in the same way. Although he also thought FOSing soupfly was suspicious it was for different reasons.

[Superfly]

Which part of "Sly wrote:" did I misunderstand? Superfly DID misquote me, PERIOD.

That wasn't my intention and you know it. I didn't even understand that you thought I was taking that from you. I just summarized your post, in fact I clearly stated it before the quote. If you write the brackets like this

it automatically shows "name wrote".

If this is true, then you are only attacking my portrayal, not the substance, which is rather stupid. Exaggerating marginal mistakes is what scum likes to do.

[Superfly]

You sure do make a lot of assumptions. I know what "Sly wrote:" means no matter how you twist it or how it got there. You are not going to be able to backtrack out of misquoting me no matter what you or your scum buddy say about it. It is a fact that you did misquote me.

Do you know how quoting works on this forum? The "person wrote" part is what the system adds to a quote, I did not write it. Also, read through that post again. I CLEARLY said that it was a summary. You ignored half of my point and then responded to the other one with "I IGNORE YOU". You just said I was wrong just because "I am scum" or whatever the reason was (gee, I think there wasn't).

I also know that "hinting" at something is not the same as "calling" for it. I didn't do either and you have acc.used me of both and incorrectly stated that I "did" them after I pointed out clearly that I didn't. I stated an option that is better than a mislynch, I did not call or hint at it.

Whatever you call it, nolynch is harmful to the town. You said that the town giving up with a nolynch is a possibility. It is technically true, but it should never come down to that in lylo. There is only one party that benefits from nolynch and that is scum. Later when someone told you this, you defended it.

Also, stop your selective arguments, it is really strange that you ignore 4/5 of my posts completely. If you are town, it is detrimental to shut down the discussion like this.

Superfly, misquoting and making false accusations about people, like you have been doing to me, is another tactic that scum find useful for creating confusion amongst the town.

Being manipulative

and having weak arguments is scummy. Selective discussion is also scummy. Voting based on meta is scummy(battousai case).

Voting with weak logic in lylo

is scummy. Focusing on marginal mistakes is scummy. Saying one thing and acting oppositely is scummy. Thinking nolynch can be useful in lylo is scummy(or really stupid at least).

Ignoring other people's arguments

is scummy.

Voting for me was not a town beneficial move. The only reason you put forward was that I accused you and misquoted you (which I didn't, ignore my explanation or not). The logic you put forward was not strong enough. You are either a reckless and stupid town or a scum.

[Superfly]

I do know how the quoting system works on this forum and apparently you do to. That is why you don't use the quote tag when you are paraphrasing. It is a fact that you did misquote me. There is no way around it.

"you don't use the quote tag when you are paraphrasing". And I was supposed to know this how? I have been on this site for half a month and I have played one game and lurked 1/10 of a game. How on earth was I supposed to know this? Soup, is this some kind of public knowledge or is this guy just making it up?

You bend the meaning of other people's actions in the way you like it. You base fabricated logic on it and then ignore other explanations and parry them with "no you are wrong, IT IS A FACT FACE IT GOSH".

Ergo, you are just making up an argument from nothing.

A no lynch is not good, I will agree, but it is UNARGUABLY better than a mislynch. I think it is obvious with my vote that I am not in favor of a no lynch.

We should not consider it as an option. You presented it as one. Therefore you hinted at the possibility of one. If we want to consider all possibilities, no matter how impossible, then a no lynch is also better than a town false claiming scum. So what was your point anyway in making it? Why the hell did you make such a statement? It had no use to anyone. A no lynch is not happening in lylo.

There is nothing more manipulative than misquoting and false accusations and you are the one who has been engaged in that type of play.

A vote based on false accusations and misquoting is not one based on weak logic.

I did not misquote you.

There were no false accusations. You hinted at a nolynch in lylo. The post where you FOSed soupfly was hugely contradictory and illogical at best. You voted me, because I accused you and you got all defensive.

Face it, you voted a townie for practically no reason based on fabricated arguments.

Also, you continue with the selectiveness I see.

[Superfly]

I do know how the quoting system works on this forum and apparently you do to.

To clarify on this, I know the mechanics of quotes, but I don't know any unwritten mafiascum laws about it.

[Superfly]

Will you please show me the post where I said what you quoted me as saying? When you realize that you can't, will you please admit openly that you did, in fact, misquote me?

I did not quote you. I have never said I quoted you. Instead, before said summary I put in [ quote ] brackets I said this

If you want me to summarize the last post it would be

You have never acknowledged that I said this even though I have mentioned it before. Therefore I did not misquote you, because in that same post, I said it was not a quote, it was a summary. Please be more precise when you read other people's posts before you blame them for it.

So stop trying to put words in my mouth and acknowledge that this argument against me is made up.

Will you please show me the post where I called for a no lynch? When you realize that you can't, will you please admit openly that you did, in fact, falsely accuse me of doing so?

There was never one specific post. Instead you argued in favour of it.

If there is a no lynch and the doc protects the scum target during the night, we will be in Day 3 with the exact same 5

If the roles are hidden the scum do not have any known targets. Then if we do a no lynch, and the doc protects the scum's night target, we are in Day 3 with the same 5 as now AND with more information because the cop's investigation info.

You argued in favour for it. Therefore, you think there is a possibility. However, we should not consider it as an option, because it is a stupid anti-town idea. You presented it as an option by arguing favour of it. Therefore you hinted at the possibility of it being an option. Because no lynch is detrimental to the town, you therefore hinted the town towards something that is harmful to us.

Why didn't you answer these questions? I might have misunderstood your intentions, but I have no way of knowing if you don't answer them.

So what was your point anyway in making it? Why the hell did you make such a statement?

Next,

I do know how the quoting system works on this forum and apparently you do to.

In 176, you explained the mechanics of the mafiascum forum quoting perfectly. It is perfectly obvious that you understand how to use it so I will not give you a break for misusing it.

No, I only explained the mechanics, as you can see.

The "person wrote" part is what the system adds to a quote, I did not write it.

I understand how to use it, not when to use it or when not to use it. To me it is just a highlighted box that contains info or quotes about a person. I had no idea that summaries did not belong in it.

There is no disputing that you misquoted me and falsely accused me of something I didn't do. That equates to scum in my book, especially in lylo.

So in summary, I did not misquote you and you did hint towards nolynch.

Also, your opinion and weak logic is not fact. It can also most certainly be disputed. Just because you refuse to accept other explanations doesn't mean it is true.

Selectiveness continues.

[Superfly]

SlySly, there is no way in hell you are town. You relentlessly attack me, a townie, based on crappy logic against a couple of arguments you choose. All the other arguments you ignore completely. You were impatient to vote me, you seem determined to lynch me. You ignored soupfly's comment and refuse to admit that your logic was weak and your discussion selective.

Because of your relentlessness, I am 100% sure you are scum. Nobody would be this eager to lynch a townie. Nobody would be so sure based on so little if they didn't have precise knowledge. You are not a cop, so you have no knowledge of investigation results. There is however another faction that has said precise knowledge. Those are scum. You know I am a townie, that is why you are so eager to lynch me. You know it would win you the game.

Vote: SlySly

[Superfly]

You are correct, what you did was misquote me.

Before stating something, please respond to my arguments. Ignoring them does not make you right.

You did say this before you misquoted me.

It says it is a summary. It clearly is a summary. You are just desperate for arguments and have to erase logic so you can be correct.

I didn't try to put words in your mouth

Oh yeah?

Will you please show me the post where I said what you quoted me s saying?

When you realize that you can't, will you please admit openly that you did, in fact, misquote me?

This shows you did. Backpedaling isn't going to help.

Thinking there is a possibility is not calling for as you falsely accused me of doing.

Your intentions matter. You had no logical reason for arguing in favor of a nolynch, it was not necessary or relevant. What do we gain from the fact that a nolynch is better than a mislynch?

Also, you again ignored my questions, so because you seem hestitant to answer them and you are extremely scummy in all other regards I have to believe you were scum trying to incite fear of a mislynch so you can push us towards a nolynch later in the game.

The one who has no basis for their vote at this point in time is you, Superfly. Your vote on me is only because I am relentless. Yes, I am relentless because there is no way in hell that I am going to sit back while you misquote me and falsely accuse me of things I didn't do.

First of all, I did not misquote you. Period. You continue to be hestitant in explaining your intentions behind hinting towards a nolynch, so I have to assume you had scummy intentions.

I point out very obvious scummy acts by you and look how defensive you have been about it, Superfly!!! I think my vote is definitely in the right place.

Obvious to only yourself, sly. Also, you again try to declare that your statements are the solid truth without any reasonable logic behind them.

because there is no way in hell that

I

am going to sit back while you misquote

me

and falsely accuse

me

of things

I

didn't do.

I thought I was the one being defensive.

The questions you pointed out that I ignored are questions that I have already answered in other posts. Once again, you are trying to accuse me of something that is not true. You are the one that is guilty of ignoring my posts and then asking me to repeat myself.

You did not answer them sufficiently. I made arguments against your explanations and you ignored them.

Also, just because I do not agree with your arguments, does not mean I ignore them.

I didn't ignore Soup's post, I responded to it and am awaiting his response to my response. Another false accusation from you, Superfly.

Didn't see you respond to this. The one thing you did say "in response" was you just repeating your baseless logic and refusing to acknowledge his.

if you were indeed a townie, can you not understand how this is an incredibly dangerous and anti-town thing to do?
a no lynch is not a good option at this point under any conceivable scenario. PERIOD

[Superfly]

My last post was getting too long.

Next, I might as well again bring forth some of my previous arguments.

Being manipulative. Examples:

Will you please show me the post where I said what you quoted me as saying?

When you realize that you can't, will you please admit openly that you did, in fact, misquote me?

If it weren't for the Day 1 result from Battousai's lynch and the fact that we are at lylo,

I would most likely place a vote on Apyadg

Slysly, this is not a sufficient answer, you did not explain yourself, you just accused me.

There is nothing more manipulative than misquoting and false accusations and you are the one who has been engaged in that type of play.

Voting based on meta(battousai case).

Thinking about Battousai's words, "dissappointed with my role. I hate this role whenever I get it, " I immediatly struck the vanilla townies from contention too. My reasoning for striking the vanillas out was more for the reason that being a vanilla townie, to me, is really like not having a role. It's just vanilla.

I think if he is the cop or the doc he would have been much more protective of the fact that he has a role and wouldn't have made the careless mistake of revealing that he does have one.

I think that being the Mafia Goon would be the scum equivalent of vanilla and wouldn't be worth pointing out.

IMO, Battousai revealed that he had a non-vanilla role in the confirmation stage.

Here Battousi scummily tries to expose the cop and then mod fishes for info about his role.

IMO, Battousai has revealed that he is the Mafia Roleblocker making himself the lynch of the day.

vote:Battousai

Saying one thing and acting differently despite it. Example:

I don't know who to believe, to me, there seems to be scumminess in each claim. If it weren't for the Day 1 result from Battousai's lynch and the fact that we are at lylo,

I would most likely place a vote on Apyadg

due to his sloppy flip flopping but facing the fact that we are at lylo and a mislynch creates a loss and using Soup's own reasoning from 161,

I think a FOS:Soupfly is in store

.

Focusing on marginal mistakes.

Here Battousi scummily tries to expose the cop and then mod fishes for info about his role.

Focusing on marginal AND fictional mistakes

Superfly,

misquoting

and making false accusations about people, like you have been doing to me, is another tactic that scum find useful for creating confusion amongst the town.

The underlined parts are the examples.

[Superfly]

I agree with tlp, apyadg should post. It would be very useful to see his reaction to the current situation.

3 posts in a row :[ .

[Superfly]

Just posting to show you guys I am here.

SlySly was scum, as I thought.

Will make a longer post tonight if soupfly posts by then.

[Superfly]

Lets end this.

I will vote Yvonne/apyadg, because of these reasons

1. Why am I still alive? I am the doc and night 1 I was roleblocked, I thought I was pretty obvious and expected to die tonight. Apyadg knew that his partner roleblocked me and I was one of the main reasons his buddy got lynched.

However apyadg got replaced by Yvonne. If one would guess the doc based on posts only, tlp would have been more likely. He was the one always trying to fit in, being careful, yet not too loud. Like a doc.

2. The 3 people that pushed towards lynching battousai were me, sly and apy. I had an excuse, they didn't.

3. The day started right after apyadg was replaced.

4. SlySly used his crappy logic against soup, who had been playing solid while he spared apyadg, who was careless and would have been easy to bandwagon

5. Apyadg's shitty claim

6. YvonneSeer's lack of content

Vote: YvonneSeer

And even if I am wrong this has still still been a very good first game for me.

[Superfly]

[Superfly]

@Yvonne

Soupfly is right, I had made up my mind by day 3.

But superfly, your reasoning for not being killed Night 2 doesn't make sense. There is no way scum can know that you're the doc based on the roleblock.

True, but the intented meaning was that the scum had been suspicious of me already in night 1. I didn't word that post too well, since nothing really depended on its content any more.

@flay

It feels balanced. Town have an edge in night actions, but it is limited due to the roleblocker.

@town except for Battousai

Awesome game from all of you

@Tamuz

Post please

[Superfly]

The reason my game play was messed up in this game was for three reasons

1) I didn't think you would attack me for what I said in confirmation

2) I was trying a new strategy, didn't work because of Tamuz

3) I should have asked my questions to bird in a pm instead of the thread

What I was going to do since I was certain I was going to be lynched, was to claim a town power role and I picked doc so the actual doc wouldn't protect me that night. I was trying to convince you to let me live, so the scum would waste their night choice and not kill our cop/doc. It messed up a little when someone, don't remember who, said my real claim as townie (this was before I was doing the new strategy) was not sufficent in preventing my lynch, paraphrasing of course. So then I started being vague by saying I might be townie might be something else to protect myself. Then I did the strategy, which I think would have worked if Tamuz didn't start demanding the real doc out themselves. I had to back pedal in order to save the real doc from being NK. Then I was certain Tamuz was scum trying to out the real doc.

Claiming a power role as a townie is a stupid idea. End of story.

[Superfly]

Yep, I am pretty sure there was even more of that.

I really expected to get lynched on both day 1 and 2. This was because the scum knew I was the only townie who was completely against battousai, especially after the doc claim.