Newbie 531: (Game Over)

[bird1111]

You wake up to find Tamuz missing, you search his house, fearing the worst, and sure enough, he's dead. His house is as plain as Battousai's, meaning he was a plain townie. Everyone still alive looks afraid, though two of you are only pretending to be afraid and are in fact glad, as everyone knows the mafia only need one more death that isn't one of their number to win.

Day 2 begins, with 5 alive it is 3 to lynch. We are in Lynch or Lose, if the town lynches someone who isn't a memeber of the mafia or if the town no-lynches or fails to lynch and the mafia successfully kill, the mafia win.

[Tamuz]

Good.

[Superfly]

Here is what I think.

Apyadg

Focused on Battousai, sort of dared him to roleclaim in #75, put Battousai on L-1 and kept him there, though "was not sure of lynching him" at #112.

Opinion :

Could be scum

, but has been playing well if that is true

tlp

Only person who didn't agree with the lynch. Was the first to be attacked during the day, ironically by Battousai.

opinion:

Town

, most likely

Soup

Against Battousai, though that doesn't make him special, lynched him, but doesn't really show anything, called for the doc to claim later, though I believe his excuse

Opinion:

Inconclusive, leaning towards town

SSly

Started bandwagon on battousai based on meta and #39, on him from page 1 to the end, not yet said much about anyone besides bat.

Opinion:

Most likely scum at this point

Everyone thought Battousai was scum towards the end.

Everyone

attacked him and he just kept digging his hole deeper. Because he was such a convenient scapegoat for the scum to latch on to, I think it would be more important to look at the earlier stages of the game, when the scum didn't have that comfort.

I would vote SlySly, but since I am not 100% sure of him being scum, I am not going to. The scum would love to quicklynch somebody.

FOS: SlySly

[Apyadg]

Focused on Battousai, sort of dared him to roleclaim in #75

Did I really? At that point, Battousai had already said he was a power-role, he had in fact already "role-claimed", just not specifically. We were told he was a power-role, just not exactly which one. Btw, who didn't focus on Batt?

put Battousai on L-1 and kept him there, though "was not sure of lynching him" at #112.

Firstly, for everyone other than Superfly who go to check the post; he's just got the wrong post #, he means 111, not 112, I'm not being misquoted!

I said that I wasn't overly keen on lynching Battousai, as whilst he was playing extremely badly if he was a doc, this didn't make him scum, as he was in fact playing awfully no matter what his role was; what reason was there to think him an awful scum player, instead of an awful town player? I mainly kept him there due to not having a reason to remove the vote. I didn't foresee the hammer coming anytime soon (I asked Soupfly to post a quick summary, so I thought we'd have further discussion), and both before and after that post, Iwas pretty confident that Batt was scum.


I agree with your assessment of Soup, on the whole. He's not really posted enough (not his fault, but it's the truth) to get a good read on him. I don't blame him for the Batt lynch as the final vote, because it did seem the only possible outcome of day one, at that point. I would have liked him to give the brief "outsider's view of the town" that I requested, but him not doing that is hardly scummy.

Tlp, I'm not so sure of, and I'm not sure why you have him down as the most likely Townie, Superfly. The only real point you make is he didn't agree with the lynch. Well, yes, but is that not worrying enough in itself? He seemed to very much sit on the fence; he claimed that he thought Batt was probably scum, but he wasn't certain, so he couldn't vote, he ignored me querying this. I'm on the fence about him too, but he does seem to have been "actively lurking"; he's posted a lot, without really saying anything.

SlySly, I agree he's not posted much about anyone but Batt, but to be fair not much but Batt has been discussed at all. Your use of the word "bandwagon" interests me, as I consider it quite a negative term, what interests me is that you were on that bandwagon and call it one. Was it really a bandwagon? Going back and looking at post 39, I still find it fairly convincing (overlooking the fact that I now know Batt's true role).

Soupfly, would you mind giving us your thoughts on Day 1, you discussed Batt and your thoughts on his play, but what about everyone else? I still think your insight could be quite valuable.

[Apyadg]

We now have two scum, one doc, one cop, and one vanilla, is it a good time to reveal roles?

[Superfly]

Lots of words

Just so you don't get me the wrong way, I am not 100% sure about anything yet. It is late so I don't have time to make a long response, but as for this.

We now have two scum, one doc, one cop, and one vanilla, is it a good time to reveal roles?

I think we should wait for a bit, let the rest post their views before and then think about this after.

[Apyadg]

Lots of words

You should have seen it before I reread it and got rid of the repeats and bits that I didn't understand even though I wrote! Too many thoughts flying around for me to even get my own head around them.

[SlySly]

Wow!!! It's hard to believe Battousai wasn't scum.

Everyone thought Battousai was scum towards the end. Everyone attacked him and he just kept digging his hole deeper.

Everyone except Tlp.

Battousai was unarguably and extremely scummy, I find it suspicious that Tlp never supported the lynch. Even Tamuz supported the lynch before it happened and his suspicions had been firmly planted on Tlp prior to that. This could be a scummy play by Tlp seeing the for sure mislynch building and stepping aside as to not be pounded in Day 2 as the hammer.

tlp

Only person who didn't agree with the lynch. Was the first to be attacked during the day, ironically by Battousai.

opinion: Town, most likely

Most likely? Maybe. Could also be a scummy play on your part trying to clear your partner and distance yourself from him.

SSly

Started bandwagon on battousai based on meta and #39, on him from page 1 to the end, not yet said much about anyone besides bat.

Battousai led his own bandwagon, starting with the role claim hint during the confirmation stage. His play was horrendous and could only be interpretted as scummy. Though he didn't vote, Tamuz planted the seeds of the case against Battousai in post 16. It just slowly grew from there due to Battousai's repeatedly terrible play.

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We now have two scum, one doc, one cop, and one vanilla, is it a good time to reveal roles?

More role digging? Didn't we get enough of that from Battousai? This could be a scummy attempt on your part to expose a night target.

I am very glad we have kept our roles hidden. It's bad enough we are at LYLO, but it would be much worse if the scum knew the identity of the power roles now.

I think the best thing for the town at this point is to keep the power roles hidden. If we can't get a lynch, we sure want to have a shot at making the NK fail.

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Good.

Even Tamuz showed his posthumous happiness that the power roles survived.

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I don't think much can be read into the hammer as Battousai, for good reason, had been at L-1 for a long time. Soup just came along and voted after seeing the obvious scumminess of Battousai, just like the rest of us who voted on him did. I'm sure with the repair of Soup's computer, we will get to see much more Soup and be able to get a better read on him.

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I had sensed a little connection between Tamuz and Battousai and kind of thought they were a scum pair. Goes to show the power of my sleuthing skills!! I am going to do a reread and see if anything else jumps out at me.

[Apyadg]

We now have two scum, one doc, one cop, and one vanilla, is it a good time to reveal roles?

More role digging? Didn't we get enough of that from Battousai? This could be a scummy attempt on your part to expose a night target.

We did, but the situation is rather different now, isn't it? Though I take your point about the NK, but if we got a scum through roleclaiming, would it be worth the life of the doc/cop? I'm not sure, that's why I asked.

[Tlp]

I didn't vote on battu because i was never sure that he was scum (like everyone) so i didn't vote on him because i thought this would happen.

If that makes me suspicious then i would think twice tbh.
We are 1 night kill away from ending this game or 1 fault day kill.
We just have to find those scums now. Slysly, i find it pretty easy and actually suspicious that you put the pressure on him for not voting. Yes tamuz voted on me first but that was a mistake from my first impression.

Waiting for more of soup but i have a feeling Super is quite right.

And btw even if some are going to roleclaim, is it reliable? Not sure tbh but it would be good to have atleast 1 scum lynched.

[Apyadg]

I didn't vote on battu because i was never sure that he was scum (like everyone) so i didn't vote on him because i thought this would happen.

For someone so unsure of whether we lynched the right person, you didn't seem to be making much of an effort to draw attention to other people. It's all very well you pointing out you thought it might happen, it's hardly helpful though.

[SlySly]

Slysly, i find it pretty easy and actually suspicious that you put the pressure on him for not voting.

Tlp, since you have accused me of doing so, would you be so kind as to point out exactly where I pressured someone for not voting?

[soupfly]

We now have two scum, one doc, one cop, and one vanilla, is it a good time to reveal roles?

this could help, but its risky. a claim would give the town a 2/3 chance of hitting scum. if the scum that is hit happens to be the roleblocker then game over. if not then there's still a chance in the endgame.

if we don't role claim then town has a 2/5 chance of lynching scum.

i think we need to take that chance because its lylo.

i am the cop.

unfortunately i investigated Tamuz last night. sorry but i just had a gut feeling.

i know that i'm going to die but i think this greatly increases our chances of lynching today. no point saving the power-roles for tomorrow if we don't get to tomorrow. besides, we'll still have one confirmed townie (either myself or the doc) around tomorrow so we'll at least have a 50% chance there.

[Apyadg]

Vote Soupfly

You ignore the suggestions of the rest of the town to not roleclaim for the moment, and why? So you can get in your early claim to get people behind you, before "your role" is claimed. Unfortunately we're not into the muddy territory of one person's word against another.

[Apyadg]

we're now, not we're not.

[Apyadg]

we're now, not we're not.

[Tlp]

Slysly, i find it pretty easy and actually suspicious that you put the pressure on him for not voting.

Tlp, since you have accused me of doing so, would you be so kind as to point out exactly where I pressured someone for not voting?

I mean myself, Srry.

[soupfly]

Vote Soupfly

You ignore the suggestions of the rest of the town to not roleclaim for the moment, and why? So you can get in your early claim to get people behind you, before "your role" is claimed. Unfortunately we're not into the muddy territory of one person's word against another.

you're not too bright. you vote the cop claim on Lylo means that if you are indeed town then the other two scum can speed lynch me. not very bright indeed.

claiming is the right play from a town perspective. it was inevitable: 40% chance of hitting scum vs. 67% chance of hitting scum. its a no brainer.

[soupfly]

btw, i'm not worried about others claiming my role since i am indeed the cop. if they claim it then i'll know they're scum and will most definitely be able to convince the town as to my claim because truth is on my side. its easier to tell the truth than to lie.

i suggest you unvote before you lose the game for us.

[SlySly]

this could help, but its risky. a claim would give the town a 2/3 chance of hitting scum. if the scum that is hit happens to be the roleblocker then game over. if not then there's still a chance in the endgame.

with the roles revealed, if we mislynch or no lynch, scum win. with them hidden, we at least had a chance if no lynch happened. now we MUST lynch scum or the game is over.

i am the cop.

unfortunately i investigated Tamuz last night.

Kind of convenient that the guy you supposedly investigated just happened to get NK'd. This could be the basis of a fake claim.

no point saving the power-roles for tomorrow if we don't get to tomorrow. besides, we'll still have one confirmed townie (either myself or the doc) around tomorrow so we'll at least have a 50% chance there.

I agree, but we have to for sure lynch scum today now. No room for error.

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Vote Soupfly

A little hasty on the vote, don't you think? This seems a little scummy to me like you are trying for a quick lynch.

...into the muddy territory of one person's word against another.

Are you claiming something here? So far, the only word is Soup's claim. I haven't seen anyone against him yet.

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I mean myself, Srry.

So are you saying that you pressured someone for not voting or are you saying that I pressured you for not voting?

You need to start getting more clear about the things you are saying. The reading between the lines to get the meanings of your posts might fly in Day 1 but now that we are in Day 2 you need to leave no room for guessing.

I did not pressure anyone for not voting nor have I seen you pressuring anyone for not voting, please point it out for me so I don't have to accuse you of lying. Some people live by the theory of "lynch all liars."

[soupfly]

this could help, but its risky. a claim would give the town a 2/3 chance of hitting scum. if the scum that is hit happens to be the roleblocker then game over. if not then there's still a chance in the endgame.

with the roles revealed, if we mislynch or no lynch, scum win. with them hidden, we at least had a chance if no lynch happened. now we MUST lynch scum or the game is over.

there are 3 townies and 2 scum. you do realize this is Lylo and a mislynch or no lynch both mean town loses.

town must lynch correctly today or lose.

[SlySly]

you do realize this is Lylo and a mislynch or no lynch both mean town loses.

If there is a no lynch and the doc protects the scum target during the night, we will be in Day 3 with the exact same 5 we have now unless there is a rule where the mod kills someone off that I am not aware of.

There is no such rule

[Tlp]

But then we aren't any step further, if we have to lynch right now.

Slysly i mean this

Post: 132
"Everyone except Tlp.

Battousai was unarguably and extremely scummy, I find it suspicious that Tlp never supported the lynch. Even Tamuz supported the lynch before it happened and his suspicions had been firmly planted on Tlp prior to that. This could be a scummy play by Tlp seeing the for sure mislynch building and stepping aside as to not be pounded in Day 2 as the hammer.
"

This is putting a bit of pressure on me because i was the only one not voting on Battu

[SlySly]

But then we aren't any step further

If the roles are hidden the scum do not have any known targets. Then if we do a no lynch, and the doc protects the scum's night target, we are in Day 3 with the same 5 as now AND with more information because the cop's investigation info.

Post: 132
"Everyone except Tlp.

Battousai was unarguably and extremely scummy, I find it suspicious that Tlp never supported the lynch. Even Tamuz supported the lynch before it happened and his suspicions had been firmly planted on Tlp prior to that. This could be a scummy play by Tlp seeing the for sure mislynch building and stepping aside as to not be pounded in Day 2 as the hammer.
"

This is putting a bit of pressure on me because i was the only one not voting on Battu

Pointing out suspicions is not what I would call pressure but I think I at least know what you were talking about now.

[Superfly]

Apy,

Tlp, I'm not so sure of, and I'm not sure why you have him down as the most likely Townie, Superfly.

Tlp could have hammered Battousai whenever he wanted to on day 6 and nobody would have cared. Either he was being careful or he was scum trying to fool us, we can't tell. My gut tells me it is the former (yeah I know what they say)

I didn't foresee the hammer coming anytime soon

2 days before the lynch, Tamuz said this, which pretty much sealed his fate. Thus, unless you didn't visit the forums for those 2 days, I doubt you could have not seen it coming.

Even with my lack of desire to lynch an uncountered doc, Battousai's recent flailing has enabled me to feel fine with lynching him now. At this point I just want soup to be able to have this say, before everything is over.

Was it really a bandwagon? Going back and looking at post 39, I still find it fairly convincing.

To me it seemed, that Battousai was thrown off balance right from the first attack, thus portraying himself as a weak player, who would have been easy for the scum to bandwagon in such a way. Also, half of his proof was a meta argument, most of which are weak and unreliable. Does not make him scum just because of this, but still something to consider.

Okay, fine up to now, but

what the hell is this?

Vote Soupfly

You ignore the suggestions of the rest of the town to not roleclaim for the moment, and why? So you can get in your early claim to get people behind you, before "your role" is claimed. Unfortunately we're not into the muddy territory of one person's word against another.

So based on that weak argument, you vote a confirmed cop. This is not nearly a strong enough argument to vote someone on, considering that the scum can quicklynch the townie and instantly win. I can think of three reasons why anyone would be this eager to vote someone.

1.) You are a cop, you maybe got a guilty result on soup but regardless now you see him claim, you vote him because he is scum
2.) You are scum, you want to fool a townie into voting, so your buddy can quicklynch
3.) You are a rather stupid town

I doubt 3, because you are neither stupid nor unexperienced. So I'd assume you are either cop or scum.

I believe that this day would already have ended, if both you and soup are town, because I am town and slysly and tlp were online almost at the same time but did not quicklynch.

So I believe that either you are a cop and soup is scum or vice versa. However, I feel counterclaiming, not just voting, would have been the logical reaction to soup if you were cop, so I am leaning towards you being scum.

FOS: Apyadg