Newbie 531: (Game Over)

[Superfly]

Last post was too long.

If there is a no lynch and the doc protects the scum target during the night, we will be in Day 3 with the exact same 5 we have now unless there is a rule where the mod kills someone off that I am not aware of.

If he protects the right one, which is not very likely. The scum can lynch completely random, they just need to lynch any townie. The doc would not have anything to go on.

[soupfly]

you do realize this is Lylo and a mislynch or no lynch both mean town loses.

If there is a no lynch and the doc protects the scum target during the night, we will be in Day 3 with the exact same 5 we have now unless there is a rule where the mod kills someone off that I am not aware of.

There is no such rule

what are you smoking? if we do that we're still in the same situation as today: 3 townies and 2 scum. why is this even worth discussing?

If the roles are hidden the scum do not have any known targets. Then if we do a no lynch, and the doc protects the scum's night target, we are in Day 3 with the same 5 as now AND with more information because the cop's investigation info.

even IF the doc manages to make the right protect tonight, there's still the issue of the role blocker which means that from this point on i will no longer be able to make any investigations cause they will block them.

let's put it this way. say i didn't claim and town no lynches today. that would mean that the doc would have to protect on of four people. then, the scum would kill one of the three townies. for this to work, that is 1/4 times 1/3 which means that we'd have a 1/12 chance of making it through to day 3.

i'd rather take the 67% chance of hitting scum by having the doc and cop claim today. and as i said, if we happen to hit the role blocker then we'll probably win cause doc can protect me and i can investigate one of remaining two players overnight.

i honestly don't know where you're coming up with these plans slysly. its either very poor town play or you're scum trying to convince us to play the poor odds.

[SlySly]

what are you smoking? if we do that we're still in the same situation as today: 3 townies and 2 scum. why is this even worth discussing?

If we lynch scum today, hoorah!! If we no lynch, though it be slim, we still have a shot to win. If we mislynch we lose.

even IF the doc manages to make the right protect tonight, there's still the issue of the role blocker which means that from this point on i will no longer be able to make any investigations cause they will block them.

Now, revealing power roles sure makes it easier for the rb to know who to target, doesn't it? Though, you are right, if we mislynch, it won't matter.

i honestly don't know where you're coming up with these plans slysly. its either very poor town play or you're scum trying to convince us to play the poor odds.

If I recall correctly, you were on board with revealing the power roles on Day 1. How do you think Night 1 would have went had we went with your power role reasoning in Day 1 and what position would that have put us in now?

In a perfect world, we will have grand discussion here in Day 2 which will reveal perfectly who the scum are and we will get a scum lynch. In the real world, it is very difficult to ever know for sure anything in this game unless you play everything very smart and make the game go several days to get the most info from posts and from investigations. I would rather no lynch and go into the night with a chance at survival than to mislynch and lose.

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To me it seemed, that Battousai was thrown off balance right from the first attack, thus portraying himself as a weak player, who would have been easy for the scum to bandwagon in such a way. Also, half of his proof was a meta argument, most of which are weak and unreliable. Does not make him scum just because of this, but still something to consider

Battousai followed up his initial scumminess with plenty more, such as fake and alternating claims and ignoring direct questions, etc... His play was unquestionably bad, thus, defending him in anyway at this point, IMO, seems very scummy.

1.) You are a cop, you maybe got a guilty result on soup but regardless now you see him claim, you vote him because he is scum
2.) You are scum, you want to fool a townie into voting, so your buddy can quicklynch
3.) You are a rather stupid town

These were my exact initial thoughts as well. Apyadg kind of hinted at a counter claim. I will be very interested to see if he actually follows through with it now.

[Superfly]

SlySly if we nolynch, we are placing everything on chance and luck. This is not how mafia is played. I wouldn't agree with this even if it was correct or inevitable, because playing mafia like a 2 month long blackjack game isn't very fun.

Also, inn this case it is bad for the town. Even with a random vote we have 40% chance of lynching scum, with a nolynch it would be less.

[SlySly]

I am not pushing for a no lynch but it would unarguably be a better outcome than a mislynch. I would much prefer a well discussed scum lynch.

If we don't get a counter claim, it seriously narrows the field of possibilities anyway.

[bird1111]

Vote Count:
soupfly (1): Apyadg

Not voting (4): soupfly, SlySly, Superfly, Tlp

[soupfly]

hey apyadg, do you realize how dangerous and anti-town it is to keep me at a vote?

[Tlp]

Its indeed very suspicous to keep a vote on him. If scum could they would have already quicklynched him and won the game, so its obvious that or soup or apy is a scum.

Perhaps both but i don't know.. we have to lynch right this time. even claiming is better then just not lynching and waiting of the doc protects the right one.

[soupfly]

Its indeed very suspicous to keep a vote on him. If scum could they would have already quicklynched him and won the game, so its obvious that or soup or apy is a scum.

no it doesn't necessarily mean that. scum can't communicate during the day so the quick lynch is somewhat risky. if one votes right now then they'll immediately out themselves as scum and unless the other scum happens to quickly hammer then the first scum will get lynched for a decidedly scummy move.

on the other hand the longer apy keeps me here the more dangerous it becomes. as an IC i can say that this is the worst kind of mistake you can make...if he's a townie that is.

[Apyadg]

Its indeed very suspicous to keep a vote on him. If scum could they would have already quicklynched him and won the game, so its obvious that or soup or apy is a scum.

It seems I wasn't quite clear enough in my vote post.

There's a very good reason that there hasn't been a speed-lynch, which is that the vote is on a scum player, of this I am sure, because the only cop in this game is me.

Alas, I have no roles ofother players to give away, as Tamuz

was

the player investigated; It was him or Tlp that needed to be investigated, as even though neither of them had no real defence for Batt, nor he for himself, neither of them voted for him. Sure,he was a townie, and it's unfortunate he was lynched, but I saw no possible defences for him, and they made no attempt to make any.

Tamuz is, of course, the only name that would be put forward as an investigation target, if a scum were to claim cop, it's unfortunate that he is who genuinely *was* investigated, and you can be almost certain that this is the case. So it is one word against another, the only difference being the order in which we claimed. Ask yourselves why Soupfly claimed first, I give the reasons why I believe he did in my last post.

[Apyadg]

on the other hand the longer apy keeps me here the more dangerous it becomes. as an IC i can say that this is the worst kind of mistake you can make...if he's a townie that is.

Why say it as an IC, and not just put the argument forward? A clear case of you attempting to use your IC status to influence votes. Feeling the pressure?

However, I feel counterclaiming, not just voting, would have been the logical reaction to soup if you were cop, so I am leaning towards you being scum.

It was a counter-claim, albeit one in which I didn't actually include the words "Oi, no, I'm the cop". Why didn't I? I suppose one could argue that I didn't because I was leaving it vague, in case it backfired, but this clearly isn't the case; it seems unmistakable to me that I'm saying I'm the doc there, why else would I vote him and say it was my word against his? Amidst writing the other points in my post, I simply forgot to be specific, but I think it's quite clear.

[soupfly]

okay, then i take back all the stuff about putting the town in danger.

vote: apyadg

--> cause he's not the cop.

now a little analysis:

1) trying a gambit on day 2 where its Lylo for town is not a great play for scum. much safer to wait it out cause town would need to lynch correctly twice to win. its a needless risk...unless of course the town decides to mass claim which decidedly turns the odds against the scum. in my case i claimed before a decision on a mass claim was taken. why? see next point.

2) everything about my original claim makes sense. if cop and doc claim then this greatly increases town's chance to win. there's nothing suspicious about my motives or play because it is the right play for town. as far as not consulting the town, sorry but at the moment there's almost as many scum as there are townies. community decision making breaks down under these circumstances.

3) apy sure did need to think about his counter claim. would have been much more credible if he had just come out and called me a liar. but then again that's what happens when you're not telling the truth --> you need to think about it so that you don't get caught up in your lie.

4) once i claimed, scum had to counter claim in this situation because of the percentages. let's say that we went ahead with the plan to have cop and doc claim and there were no counterclaims. in that case we would believe the cop and doc and the chance of lynching scum would be 2/3 or 67%. By counterclaiming, the chances have just gone down to 1/2 or 50% because it comes down to believing one claim or the other. so a counter claim by apyadg or his scum buddy was inevitable in this situation...its the right scum play.

5) finally, apy painted himself into a corner by placing that vote on me yesterday. voting me at that stage was a very anti-town action. if he had just unvoted then it would have still been a stain on his play. he was almost forced to counterclaim in order to justify that vote.

@doc: you should no longer claim. there's no longer any point because either myself or apyadg will get lynched today. if town lynches correctly (apy of course) then you'll still have a chance to protect the real cop tonight.

@townies: be very careful how you vote. one wrong vote and the remaining scum will hammer. probably best to discuss it a bit.

[soupfly]

on the other hand the longer apy keeps me here the more dangerous it becomes. as an IC i can say that this is the worst kind of mistake you can make...if he's a townie that is.

Why say it as an IC, and not just put the argument forward? A clear case of you attempting to use your IC status to influence votes. Feeling the pressure?

you hadn't counter claimed at that point. assuming that we were all townies at that point then it was indeed a valid assessment as an IC. unless you know something definitively, you should never rush to put a vote on anybody when you're a townie because of the risk of speed lynch

of course that was clarified when you counter claimed so i wrote:

okay, then i take back all the stuff about putting the town in danger.

[SlySly]

Below are our 2 cop claims:

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We now have two scum, one doc, one cop, and one vanilla, is it a good time to reveal roles?

this could help, but its risky. a claim would give the town a 2/3 chance of hitting scum. if the scum that is hit happens to be the roleblocker then game over. if not then there's still a chance in the endgame.

if we don't role claim then town has a 2/5 chance of lynching scum.

i think we need to take that chance because its lylo.

i am the cop.

unfortunately i investigated Tamuz last night. sorry but i just had a gut feeling.

i know that i'm going to die but i think this greatly increases our chances of lynching today. no point saving the power-roles for tomorrow if we don't get to tomorrow. besides, we'll still have one confirmed townie (either myself or the doc) around tomorrow so we'll at least have a 50% chance there.

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Vote Soupfly

You ignore the suggestions of the rest of the town to not roleclaim for the moment, and why? So you can get in your early claim to get people behind you, before "your role" is claimed. Unfortunately we're not into the muddy territory of one person's word against another.

we're now, not we're not.

Unfortunately we're now into the muddy territory of one person's word against another.

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Soup's claim is calm, based on fairly reasonable logic (though his perfect world math is questionable and his context taken as a whole is incorrect, IMO) and well thought out.

Apyadg's claim, on the other hand, is a fat, sloppy whopper lead off with a vote and backed up by an emotionally driven scolding of Soup's claim based on very shallow reasoning.

Reading these two claims initially made me think that Apadyg is scum but something Soup himself recently said has me wondering if Soup is pointing out Apyadg's innocence while unknowingly exposing his own style of scumminess. That was:

3) apy sure did need to think about his counter claim...that's what happens when you're not telling the truth --> you need to think about it so that you don't get caught up in your lie.

It is obvious Apyadg didn't think about his claim very deeply which, using Soup's 161 reasoning, makes me think that maybe Apyadg really is the cop and that being the cop didn't make him feel the need to think things through as deeply as Soup felt. Apyadg didn't even bother to review his post before submitting it. I would think that scum would be much more careful, like Soup was in his claim, than this knowing that anything not thought through well is going to be attacked hard in lylo. Apyadg continues his sloppy play with some Battousai-like flip-flopping between cop and doc...

There's a very good reason that there hasn't been a speed-lynch, which is that the vote is on a scum player, of this I am sure, because the only cop in this game is me.

It was a counter-claim, albeit one in which I didn't actually include the words "Oi, no, I'm the cop". Why didn't I? I suppose one could argue that I didn't because I was leaving it vague, in case it backfired, but this clearly isn't the case; it seems unmistakable to me that I'm saying I'm the doc there

The last time we lynched someone for this type of horrendous play, we lynched a townie. I think we need to dig deeper today than we did in Day 1 to avoid repeating the same mistake in Day 2.

Remembering Battousai at this point, it really wouldn't surprise me if a 3rd person claimed cop and turned out to be the real cop.

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This has me confused. Apyadg is now playing almost just like Battousai did in Day 1. Baseless, emotional and wishy-washy. Is this just another severe case of a bad townie? If Apyadg is the cop, that explains his immediate vote on Soupfly and explains why the vote remains.

Soupfly has been pushing for role exposure since day 1, which is scummy IMO because the less info the scum have the better it is for the town. Soup comes out in Day 2 immediately, preventing pre-claim discussion, with a claim that he obviously did "think about" before hand. Soupfly, did "you need to think about it so that you" didn't "get caught up in your lie?"

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I don't know who to believe, to me, there seems to be scumminess in each claim. If it weren't for the Day 1 result from Battousai's lynch and the fact that we are at lylo, I would most likely place a vote on Apyadg due to his sloppy flip flopping but facing the fact that we are at lylo and a mislynch creates a loss and using Soup's own reasoning from 161, I think a

FOS:Soupfly

is in store.

[Superfly]

you hadn't counter claimed at that point. assuming that we were all townies at that point then it was indeed a valid assessment as an IC. unless you know something definitively, you should never rush to put a vote on anybody when you're a townie because of the risk of speed lynch

If we believe his cop claim, the rushed vote makes sense, because you would be confirmed scum to him. There is no way in hell that both of you are townies.

it seems unmistakable to me that I'm saying

I'm the doc

there

Sarcasm, typo or what?

Sly, I agree with bad player=/=scum, but "taking lessons from day 1" isn't useful. Battousai was a first timer on this site, but apy and soup aren't.

Also the second scum is either you or tlp because soup and apy can't both be town or scum and I am town.

[soupfly]

Also the second scum is either you or tlp because soup and apy can't both be town or scum and I am town.

in my opinion slysly is the second scum so i'm not too surprised by his analysis. in any case, if you are townie then you shouldn't trust either slysly or tlp. make up your own mind independent of the other opinions.

what i would recommend is that you read slysly's last post very carefully. what do you think about slysly's logic about believing apy's sloppy play because we lynched battousai for his sloppy play and were wrong? is that logic worthy of Lylo? seems pretty manufactured...almost like someone grasping at something to justify his predetermined point of view.

you hadn't counter claimed at that point. assuming that we were all townies at that point then it was indeed a valid assessment as an IC. unless you know something definitively, you should never rush to put a vote on anybody when you're a townie because of the risk of speed lynch

If we believe his cop claim, the rushed vote makes sense, because you would be confirmed scum to him. There is no way in hell that both of you are townies.

let me clarify what i mean by "assuming we are all townies". at that point in time i had to assume that apy was a townie and that his vote on me put the town in jeopardy of a quick lynch. after he claimed cop it was clear why he placed the vote. before that, it could have been construed as a townie error but the claim justified the vote (even if he is lying).

[Tlp]

So now we have 1 cop claim (soup)
1 doc claim(apy), who also claims to be the cop it seems, dunno what to believe from that.

Slysly, its indeed true that a quick lynch wouldn't been easy for the scum, but as we can see, everyone is pretty active so it would have been done fast tbh.
We shouldn't trust anyone at this stage..

Now lets say if apy and soup are both town, then we have 3 left with 2 scum in it, with already a vote on soup, the 2 scums should just wait till they are both online on this forum and then quickvote, they have to be very unlucky to have the first one onvote just in time.. For me this is a big reason why one of them is surely scum.

[soupfly]

So now we have 1 cop claim (soup)
1 doc claim(apy), who also claims to be the cop it seems, dunno what to believe from that.

Slysly, its indeed true that a quick lynch wouldn't been easy for the scum, but as we can see, everyone is pretty active so it would have been done fast tbh.
We shouldn't trust anyone at this stage..

Now lets say if apy and soup are both town, then we have 3 left with 2 scum in it, with already a vote on soup, the 2 scums should just wait till they are both online on this forum and then quickvote, they have to be very unlucky to have the first one onvote just in time.. For me this is a big reason why one of them is surely scum.

apy did not claim doc. he claimed cop as far as i can tell. i think the doc thing was a typo. so either myself or apy has to be scum.

[Superfly]

what i would recommend is that you read slysly's last post very carefully. what do you think about slysly's logic about believing apy's sloppy play because we lynched battousai for his sloppy play and were wrong? is that logic worthy of Lylo? seems pretty manufactured...almost like someone grasping at something to justify his predetermined point of view.

Soup, there is no need to influence me like this, I have been suspicious of apyadg and slysly from the beginning. If you want me to summarize the last post it would be

Oh my god, apyadg is stupid

,

BUT LOOK AT THIS GUY!!!!

Which leads me to believe that apyadg and slysly are scumbuddies if either of them is scum.

Also, this looks like a rather weak argument

If it weren't for the Day 1 result from Battousai's lynch and the fact that we are at lylo, I would most likely place a vote on Apyadg

I can understand the second part, but battousai was clearly an isolated case, not a precedent. This looks like a "fished out" excuse to me. If he was scum, it would be a good move to play out on the confusion that followed after the lynch.

There are three other scummy points about Sly. He called for nolynch in lylo. He started the bandwagon on Battousai. In regards to this, here is his explanation of it in an earlier post.

Battousai followed up his initial scumminess with plenty more, such as fake and alternating claims and ignoring direct questions, etc... His play was unquestionably bad, thus, defending him in anyway at this point, IMO, seems very scummy.

When he made the bandwagon post, all battousai had done was two newbie mistakes. Also it relied greatly on the meta argument. When I voted him at the end of page 2, it was only because I wanted to pressure him to defend better. I wasn't 100% sure he was scum.

For the third point, let me bring out the possible scum pairs.

sly and apy
sly and soup
sly and tlp
apy and soup
apy and tlp
soup and tlp

The 4th one is out of the question. The 3rd, 5th and 6th one are hard to believe because tlp has been unscummy for the entire game. That leaves the 1st and 2nd. Both of them have slysly in it. Out of those two, the more likely one is the 1st, because of what I said earlier on.

As for apy, he responded to the claim rather defensively, which can mean a lot of things. He is not a newbie, so either he really is the cop or he is a scum.

I would vote Sly at this point, but I'll wait for a bit longer. Tlp hasn't said a lot and half of my third point relies on him being town.

[Superfly]

Tlp, could you post your opinions about each player and who are most likely scum in your opinion. Would help.

[SlySly]

Oh my god, apyadg is stupid

,

BUT LOOK AT THIS GUY!!!!

I did NOT say this!! Misquoting = VERY SCUMMY!!!

There are three other scummy points about Sly. He called for nolynch in lylo. He started the bandwagon on Battousai.

I didn't call for no lynch, I said it was a valid option at this point, and I still believe that to a certain extent, because with a no lynch, we stilll have a chance to win, with a mislynch like we did in Day 1, the game is over and we lose.

I would hardly call Battousai's lynch a bandwagon and as far as me starting it, Tamuz is the one who planted the seeds of Battousai's scumminess in post 16, not me. I didn't pressure anyone to vote on Battousai and does anyone really think Battousai didn't screw himself over in his very first confirmation post and then continue slitting his own throat with each additional post of his?

When he made the bandwagon post, all battousai had done was two newbie mistakes. Also it relied greatly on the meta argument. When I voted him at the end of page 2, it was only because I wanted to pressure him to defend better. I wasn't 100% sure he was scum.

I didn't notice you removing your vote from Battousai either. Maybe his scumminess was blinding you too?!?!? Don't accuse me of doing something that you yourself did. You accusation is VERY SCUMMY.

For the third point, let me bring out the possible scum pairs.

sly and apy
sly and soup
sly and tlp
apy and soup
apy and tlp
soup and tlp

The 4th one is out of the question. The 3rd, 5th and 6th one are hard to believe because tlp has been unscummy for the entire game. That leaves the 1st and 2nd. Both of them have slysly in it. Out of those two, the more likely one is the 1st, because of what I said earlier on.

Your possibilities are off and you have conveniently left off a few. I have included them for you.

super and tlp
super and apy
super and soup

You have misquoted me and you have repeatedly accused me of doing things I didn't do. To me, this can only mean 1 thing and that is that you are scum.

vote:Superfly

I can understand the second part, but battousai was clearly an isolated case, not a precedent.

I would think Battousai was an isolated case too but now I have seen Apyadg exactly repeat many of Battousai's mistakes which makes me think he is a bad townie not thinking his actions through ahead of time.

[Tlp]

In my opinion as far as now,

1.apy
2.slysly
3.soup
4.superfly

In order from 1 = most scum , 4= most town


What i find suspicous about them is that first soup claims cop, apy attacks him and counter-claims and votes soup, slysly does a fos on soup which is not a vote but closely a vote. I think he's hoping when one of us votes on soup so he can jump in and have the lynch. If we don't lynch soup he can always say he didn't exactly vote on him in the first place! he did a fos!

Now we know for pretty sure that apy & soup can't be both town because otherwise it would have been bad play from the scums, surely it isn't that hard to look when you are both online and vote on him.

I think a fos on slysly is in place, between apy and soup i'm not that sure.

[Superfly]

Stop exaggerating everything I say and calm down. Although I am 95% sure you are scum, there is a chance you are town, in which case your extreme defensiveness can get you lynched and your careless vote can lose us the game.

I did NOT say this!! Misquoting = VERY SCUMMY!!!

In the first part of the last paragraph you say

If it weren't for the Day 1 result from Battousai's lynch and the fact that we are at lylo, I would most likely place a vote on Apyadg"

and then you promptly follow by FOSing soupfly instead. Misquoting? I doubt it. Tlp apparently understood it the same way.

Also, I like the way you wrote very scummy in caps lock and with !!!, that surely is not an exaggeration or manipulative, not even a bit(/sarcasm).

I didn't call for no lynch, I said it was a valid option at this point, and I still believe that to a certain extent, because with a no lynch, we stilll have a chance to win, with a mislynch like we did in Day 1, the game is over and we lose.

You hinted for it and no, unless we get a written promise from the scum saying who they will lynch tonight, it is not a viable option, it is surrender.

I would hardly call Battousai's lynch a bandwagon and as far as me starting it, Tamuz is the one who planted the seeds of Battousai's scumminess in post 16, not me. I didn't pressure anyone to vote on Battousai and does anyone really think Battousai didn't screw himself over in his very first confirmation post and then continue slitting his own throat with each additional post of his?

You voted for him first. A bandwagon is everything that ends with a lynch. Battousai was clearly a weak player and the votes on him pushed him further to his collapse. He made two careless comments, one of them was metad and the other misinterpreted/turned into a scum claim. That is what you based your vote on AT THAT TIME. What happened later we all know. That is irrelevant, because Battousai was beyond hope past page 4.

I didn't notice you removing your vote from Battousai either. Maybe his scumminess was blinding you too?!?!? Don't accuse me of doing something that you yourself did. You accusation is VERY SCUMMY.

Heh, what were your motives for voting him? Remember, you said, that based on a few careless posts and a meta argument, he IS scum. I only wanted to pressure him to defend himself better. Then came page 3, where nothing happened and he said he would claim, I decided to wait it out and then came his scummy claim and everything fell apart from there.

Your possibilities are off and you have conveniently left off a few. I have included them for you.

super and tlp
super and apy
super and soup

I didn't include them so scum couldn't follow up with "OH YOU ADDED YOURSELF DOES THAT MEAN YOU COULD BE SCUM TOO OH SCUMCLAIM HURF DURF".

You have misquoted me and you have repeatedly accused me of doing things I didn't do. To me, this can only mean 1 thing and that is that you are scum.

vote:Superfly

Problem is, that you did do them. If you are scum, then I clearly outlined your intentions.

I would vote you like you'd expect but I am going to wait instead. Better see what other people and your likely scumbuddy think of this post and yours. And if you really are a town, then maybe reconsider your vote. FOSing or being suspicious of me is fine. Voting on someone in a defensive mood who you find merely scummy can lead to misconceptions. What if you are wrong? We will lose. Your logic is not strong enough to be that sure.

I would think Battousai was an isolated case too but now I have seen Apyadg exactly repeat many of Battousai's mistakes which makes me think he is a bad townie not thinking his actions through ahead of time.

Yeah, so why am I better from Battousai and apyadg. I am flattered you consider me to be such a good player, especially considering this is literally my first mafia game.

[Superfly]

For anyone confused, my last post was not a response to tlp, but to sly.

I agree with tlp's post.

Also for the sake of truth, I read through tlp's last post and I got it a bit wrong. In this part

Misquoting? I doubt it. Tlp apparently understood it the same way.

He didn't understand it in the same way. Although he also thought FOSing soupfly was suspicious it was for different reasons.

[soupfly]

Oh my god, apyadg is stupid

,

BUT LOOK AT THIS GUY!!!!

I did NOT say this!! Misquoting = VERY SCUMMY!!!

he didn't say you wrote this. he's characterizing your post and pretty accurately at that.

There are three other scummy points about Sly. He called for nolynch in lylo. He started the bandwagon on Battousai.

I didn't call for no lynch, I said it was a valid option at this point, and I still believe that to a certain extent, because with a no lynch, we stilll have a chance to win, with a mislynch like we did in Day 1, the game is over and we lose.

a no lynch is not a good option at this point under any conceivable scenario. PERIOD.

You have misquoted me and you have repeatedly accused me of doing things I didn't do. To me, this can only mean 1 thing and that is that you are scum.

vote:Superfly

if you were indeed a townie, can you not understand how this is an incredibly dangerous and anti-town thing to do?